Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
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Writing Questions for Josh
I don't know if you have already answered this question but I am confused about copyrights. I have always thought you had to be published or registered to have copyright protection on something. I recently read that you did not have to and could put the little c symbol on anything that you actually wrote. I have writing I would like to put on my blog and good reads, the first chapter of a book, but ... well it would be nice to have some insight from someone who actually knows. If this even makes sense.
Mod
Not that you can't sue and recoup damages without filing -- which is one reason why so many authors and studios are skittish about looking at anyone else's work -- but you have a better chance of receiving financial damages if you file.
This is from the US Copyright Office website:
Why should I register my work if copyright protection is automatic?
Registration is recommended for a number of reasons. Many choose to register their works because they wish to have the facts of their copyright on the public record and have a certificate of registration. Registered works may be eligible for statutory damages and attorney's fees in successful litigation. Finally, if registration occurs within 5 years of publication, it is considered prima facie evidence in a court of law. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration” and Circular 38b, Highlights of Copyright Amendments Contained in the Uruguay Round Agreements Act (URAA), on non-U.S. works.
Okay, that does a lot toward making sense of everything. Sounds like one of those better to be safe than sorry things. LolI also read the writers agreement in the terms of agreement for goodreads, I didn't even know they had one of those until I read across one of the things to look out for when posting writing. But I will not be posting any of my finished writing, until I register for copyright protection.
Thanks for the help, Josh.
On a different note -- I loved your book, Don't Look Back, and I'm saving up my book money to buy The Adrien English Mystery series, Holmes & Moriarity, and I Spy Something Bloody, all sound to be wonderful books!
Mod
So glad you enjoyed DLB! And hopefully you'll enjoy the others as much.
Mod
I'm still working on the second draft of my novel, so it'll be awhile before I start looking for a publisher, but pen names are on my mind, and I do have one picked out.
So, for example, when I choose a publisher, or even an editor or agent, do I not tell them my real name? That seems like it would mess up things on the money end. Or, do I say, yes, I'm so-and-so, but I would like to use this other name when my books are published?
lol, I really got to thinking about it when I learned about a book fair geared toward LGBTQ books, and wondered how I would introduce myself to publishers.
btw, I just have to say, your book was fantastic! I learned so much from it and appreciate it so much. Thank you for writing it! And as soon as I get my novel in good shape, as edited as I can personally get it, I'll take you up on your manuscript reading services. I would love to know your thoughts and opinions as I want to do this right!
-Anna
Mod
I'm still working on the second draft..."
Hi, Anna.
There's no legal procedure for choosing and using a pen name. You just pick a name -- ideally something that has meaning for you, is easy to remember and spell and search, isn't too similar to another (especially more famous) writer's name, and that you'll be happy to use for years to come -- and that's the name that goes under the by-line on your manuscript.
You can register the name as your DBA (Doing Business As) and set up your bank accounts, etc. under that name, but I would only recommend that if you've been using the name for a long time and know you'll be writing under it for the foreseeable future.
You generally contact publishers and editors under your own name (and your own name is the name that goes in the upper left hand corner of the manuscript in traditional manuscript format).
Occasionally publishers will ask you to change your pen name. For example, if it's too similar to that of another in-house author or if the sales numbers for your pen name are low.
I'm so glad the book is proving useful!
Mod
I do have a penname picked out already, so that part's done, thankfully. And, if I did need to change it, well, I've practically got a list I could choose from. lol.
Thanks again, this is great information!
Since I like to write mixed genres: gay romance, mystery, sf/fantasy.Do you have any tips about what to read to become even more familiar with writing the mystery genre?
I've read books on style, dialogue, characterisation and writing sf/fantasy, but I've never consciously thought about reading up on writing mysteries. Now that I'm editing one of my novels, I feel I need to brush up on it.
Mod
Do you have any tips about what to read to become even more familiar with writing the mystery genre?
I've read books on style,..."
Oh yes. Many many books on writing mysteries grace my shelves. *g* Old and New.
Here are some very good ones for starting out in the genre:
Writing Mysteries - A Handbook by the MWA
Writing Mystery and Crime Fiction - Burack
Writing Crime & Suspense Fiction - Adamson
How to Write Mysteries - O'Cork
I think Sue Grafton has a book out on writing mysteries which might be fun.
Josh wrote: "Oh yes. Many many books on writing mysteries grace my shelves. *g* Old and New.Here are some very good ones for starting out in the genre: ..."
I don't doubt that :)
I've found three out of four, I guess that's a good start.
And Sue Grafton is in the Writing Mysteries - Handbook by the MWA, or did you mean she wrote one herself as well?
Mod
Here are some very good ones for starting out in the genre: ..."
I don't doubt that :)
I've found thre..."
I thought she'd written one herself, but maybe it's the MWA one.
Mod
Wow, what a great question. Series of questions, in fact.
The first one is sort of delicate. Frankly, if I had been overly sensitive to readership, I'd never have written the AE series. Jake and some of his attitudes are hard for certain readers to swallow. Now and again I still get naive letters or reviews from someone (almost always straight) saying how offensive Jake's attitudes are.
But I get far more letters from people saying they "know" Jake. They had a Jake in their lives. Jake and his attitudes, good and bad, are a reality. The challenge of the writer is to take reality and "fictionalize" it. Which ultimately means making the stories bigger, better, and more readable than real life.
In real life Jake might very well have struggled along in that marriage with Kate for 20 years. That wouldn't have made for satisfying fiction. So we look for the balance between reality and good fiction.
When we talk about "taking risks" in our writing, this is what we mean. We take the chance of writing stories and characters that readers might not be interested in -- might even offend some readers -- and then we try to find a way to make it a story a lot of people want to read despite themselves.
The balance you have to strive for as a writer is to be true to these stories you want and need to tell -- but to be conscious of what your readers need too. In other words, to remain aware of the demands of genre.
Demands of genre. Those are the key words.
M/M fiction is romantic fiction, so the majority of readers here are hoping that the characters, no matter how screwed up, are going to find a realistic way to a happy ending.
I think part of how you do that is resisting the temptation to let one character be right and one character be wrong. Too often authors will create a protagonist who embodies their own wishful thinking, so we've got characters who are too good looking and too smart and too noble and too TOO. I always try to write two equally matched intelligent people on the opposite side of an equation, and I argue each side of that equation with equal passion.
You have to separate yourself from your characters. That's hard for some writers because they live vicarously through their fictional creations. My characters aren't me and I don't care that they aren't perfect. In fact, I actually sort of enjoy pushing the boundaries of what readers can accept from a character. Jeff in A Vintage Affair is a perfect example. Oh my goodness what a time some readers had with him. Or the boy in A Limited Affair. How angry some readers were with his attempts to blackmail his lover. I just see someone afraid and desperate and making terrible, destructive choices.
Very often in order to be true to your characters you will have them say and do things that are against your own beliefs -- they will say words that will never come out of your mouth, words that may well offend readers (even yourself!). But in order to be true to the characters and make the conflict between your protags realistic and believable, you have to be true to what people would say and do in those situations.
To me that's the real key. Not that the character says or does something offensive, but that he says or does something believable. Because if your readers believe in the psychology of the characters, they may not like what the characters do, but they will still believe (and be moved) by their actions and choices.
If the characters -- as is so painfully often the case in this genre -- are not behaving like real people, that's more likely to turn readers off than a character who behaves offensively but believably.
Did that answer the question(s)?
Josh:
I was just curious what you thought, as an author, of the new Kindle lending feature? As a reader and Kindle owner, I absolutely love the ability to be able to share my ebooks with someone, just as I did/do with my physical books. Amazon DOES put many restrictions on the lending, to include the fact that you can only lend your ebook "one time only" (which I think is fair) and only for 14 days per book, but as a published author, do you see this as a good thing or a possible loss of income?
Also, does the lending fare better for genre's such as M/M Romance and Erotica since these are books that would more than likely NOT be available to borrow from your local public library making it more difficult for new readers to find your work? <[hope that made sense]
Thanks!
Leah
I was just curious what you thought, as an author, of the new Kindle lending feature? As a reader and Kindle owner, I absolutely love the ability to be able to share my ebooks with someone, just as I did/do with my physical books. Amazon DOES put many restrictions on the lending, to include the fact that you can only lend your ebook "one time only" (which I think is fair) and only for 14 days per book, but as a published author, do you see this as a good thing or a possible loss of income?
Also, does the lending fare better for genre's such as M/M Romance and Erotica since these are books that would more than likely NOT be available to borrow from your local public library making it more difficult for new readers to find your work? <[hope that made sense]
Thanks!
Leah
Mod
It's difficult when characters -- especially main characters -- do and say things that are foolish or that we personally find offensive. Part of what makes it difficult is the worry that some readers will think we feel this way.
And then we have writers who go out of their way to have their characters do and say abrasive or shocking things merely for entertainment value.
Basically, if you have your characters behave realistically, you won't go wrong.
Mod
I was just curious what you thought, as an author, of the new Kindle lending feature? As a reader and Kindle owner, I absolutely love the ability to be able to share my ebooks with someon..."
I think it's a great idea, Leah. I think it's a way of addressing the problem of viral sharing while still allowing readers the pleasure of lending a favorite book to a friend. Or even several friends.
Is there a chance that readers will choose not to buy a book they've been loaned? Sure. A big one. There's also a chance that a reader will read a promo excerpt and decide that particular book isn't for them. Every book isn't for every reader and allowing readers to sample the wares means some readers will decide a writer or a book isn't to their taste.
But it also means a reader may like a loaned book enough to buy my next release for their own.
Either way, sharing books is one of the pleasures of reading. Readers should be able to lend each other books -- without destroying the writer or the publishing industry in the process -- and this seems to address that. In my opinion, it's an instance of ethics and technology keeping pace together.
Mod
It's dif..."
I agree completely! I don't know why I'm always worried about what other people think when it comes to me and my writing, but sometimes I do. And I know I shouldn't.
Right now, I have a villian using gay slurs, and wanting to do horrible things to one of my main characters. (I love to torture my characters before they get their happy ending, I know, I'm horrible.)
But then I'm hesitant to let friends and family read it because they know me. I might get great reviews from others who don't know me, because I can write so realistically, but I'm always worried about what family will think. So, hearing you backing up my own thoughts on writing realistically, helps, a lot! When I finish my current WIP, it'll be interesting to see what they have to say about it! (eep!)
I love it when readers tell me my work made them cry, or laugh out loud, or worry, or whatever. It means I got to them, and oftentimes, it's because I kept to reality. And a lot of the reviews I get mention that they love how well I stuck to reality.
So... reality ho!
Also, your note about keeping your characters on a somewhat equal ground is helpful too. I'd never before thought about it that way, and it might just solve a mini problem with another WIP I've got. ... thinking about it further, maybe you just saved a novel from going in the trash... again. THANKS!!!
Do you know the gender genie online app? It proports to identify the gender of the writer by calculating how many times certain words appear in the text. Pronouns appear to be female and place identifiers (around, below, on) male. "Where" is female, "what" is male. I'm not sure it matters, but it's fun. I plugged in some dialogue which turned up as male (and that's got to be a good thing) but my longer passage was almost evenly split. I'm betting it is more important how the characters feel but there might be something subliminal in the prose that signals to the reader. Not sure how I'll write without pronouns (although "he" didn't make either gender's list so as long as I don't write in the first person and there are no female characters...). I guess I'll have to depend ON writing AROUND all that to get to the meaning BELOW. http://bookblog.net/gender/analysis.php
Maggie wrote: "Do you know the gender genie online app? It proports to identify the gender of the writer by calculating how many times certain words appear in the text. Pronouns appear to be female and place ide..."
It is fun indeed :D Thanks!
It is fun indeed :D Thanks!
Mod
I think it makes for a more interesting story -- and believable conflict -- if you let both characters be equally wrong and equally right. You'll still find some readers passionately taking one side over the other. ;-D
Smart characters deserve smart characters. That's my take. AND smart characters can still make mistakes, can still do dumb things. We've all been there.
Glad the discussion is proving useful!
Mod
Could there BE a more useless app?!
Oh! Or how about that one that tells you what famous writer you write like? Hoooooo boy.
Lots and lots of ways for writers to amuse themselves advoiding writing these days. ;-P
The gender genie app, there's nothing more stereotypical than that. Basically because I blog/write about action movies and hard rock bands, I MUST BE A MAN. Sex in bed... You know whenever I read about sex on the staircase, I'd go, "Really? Do you know how much that hurts?" there's suspension of belief and there's "ouch, my back, my back!" ;)
I need to check out Lia's spreadsheet! I remember we had quite a big discussion on the topic in a forum. Thanks!
Mod
When I think of Lia I think German efficiency and ingenuity.
That woman could win world wars. ;-D
Josh wrote: "I need to check out Lia's spreadsheet! I remember we had quite a big discussion on the topic in a forum. Thanks!When I think of Lia I think German efficiency and ingenuity.
That woman coul..."
Thats SOME spreadsheet. I like the fact that other authors would have category like "BDSM element", you have "Character likes to cook"... *g*
Mod
LMAO.
Maybe that's the secret of my success. I'm so far out of step I created a new dance move. ;-D
The app bases the result not on the subjects you write, but on HOW you write :) It's fun actually.. and quite accurate. It can be useful if you want to know your net buddies' true gender XD
This application says I'm male. Not being a native speaker, it might be that my English has been influenced by male writers. Or that I write like an English-speaking man. I'm confused :-/
Emanuela ~Zstyx~ wrote: "This application says I'm male. Not being a native speaker, it might be that my English has been influenced by male writers. Or that I write like an English-speaking man. I'm confused :-/"
It told me twice I was male and twice female :) But I got "female" on longer texts so technically it's still correct.
It told me twice I was male and twice female :) But I got "female" on longer texts so technically it's still correct.
I've seen that app posted a few times now, and it always elicits conversation. One thing that it does show quite well is how many women/girls really value 'writing like a man'. It shows up in things like crowing that they register as 'male', in denigrating the app when it registers them as 'female', in trying to analyse how to write more 'male'. And regardless of how good/useful/trite the app itself is, I find this really depressing. I'm trying to figure out why so many women devalue the idea of 'writing like a woman'. What's up with that?I get that when you are writing about men, you want your characters to behave and talk like men (whatever that means is not the point here), but how does that translate to thinking that your prose is male/female and putting a value on one over the other?
This makes me sad. I thought we (women) had come further than this.
Sorry. Just been a bee in my bonnet for a while.
Re writing risky, I just finished The Pharaoh's Concubine by Z.A. Maxfield. Think it's an excellent example of the discussion. I think she has disappointed several of her readers with the book; it is somewhat dark, the characters and HEA are morally ambiguous - it is not a comfortable read. But in my own opinion/value set (for what it's worth) it is the best of her books. It touched something deep in me.
I appreciate authors that take risks, because it is usually the risky stories that I enjoy most because I like having my boundaries stretched that way. It's like -- by the very nature of the process, if an author tries hard to not offend anyone, to keep everyone happy, and to appeal to the widest possible audience, to me (by that I mean, given what I best like to read) that pretty much guarantees that I may find the book fine, but I will never rate it among the greats.
Does that make sense? Taking risks might result in lower overall sales, but I personally think you draw in the edges of your readership -- those people who really want something besides a simple romance. I disliked Jake (not generally for the same reasons other people seem to) but he is a remarkable character in the English stories, and help move Josh's stories beyond the humdrum. IMO.
As an author who needs to balance art with paying the water bill, it must be difficult sometimes to find that balance between raising the paycheck and taking risks. I'm just guessing here, of course. :p
Ocotillo wrote: "I get that when you are writing about men, you want your characters to behave and talk like men (whatever that means is not the point here), but how does that translate to thinking that your prose is male/female and putting a value on one over the other? "Hi Oco, I think what they're saying is that if you're writing an m/m story where your character's internal "voice" is male, then you need to have your character thinking like a man, too and this needs to come across.
It's not the same as "writing like a man" which I see you saying as a style thing. The only way I can see this being different maybe is in the use of shorter sentences and the equivalent of the old furphy: men can only do one thing at a time, ie only have one idea at one time. (winks).
There are some subtle things which may be perceived as being stereotypically different (apart from just getting the sensations right). For example in real life, I'm often accused by my husband for asking two questions at the one time. So I watch that my male characters don't have double barrelled internal queries of themselves.
I also watch how much interpretation of body signals I have. Assuming, possibly wrongly, that males are more in tune with what is said than what is betrayed. Hence I often strip out a lot of body language references when I finish.
Obviously all this is stereotypical behavior, but if I want to make the reader "buy" the fact that my character is a male I do watch these subtle things.
I am also constantly amazed at the things my male beta reader picks me up on. How things feel to them.
I'm interested in your comments about ZAM's latest. I will check it out.
I get what they are saying, actually. But in the discussions I've seen (I'm talking about beyond this GR discussion), there is a very definite value placed on being able to write as though someone might think you were male, it becomes very personal (not about writing, per se) and it devolves into what I am talking about -- beyond the question of 'are your characters/internal dialogue/narration' believably male. I'm sure that people who do this would argue your point, and perhaps I am mistaken for the occasional person, but on the whole, I really do think that this is an internalized sexism. I see it in academia, too, and it bothers me no less there.
As a reader, I like when authors take risks and write something outside of the norm. They will therefore be more memorable to me and elicit a greater emotional response from me when I think about those characters and their stories. If it feels like I'm reading the same story over and over again, I'm not likely to recall much of it. When I'm finished, I'll think "well that was nice" and then pick up the next book and immediately forget about the last.Yes, I was angry at Jake most of the time but I was always ready to forgive him. I think if he was any different he wouldn't be as memorable to me. I think Adrien and Jake are 2 characters I probably think about at least once a day. Maybe I'm just too forgiving as a reader? I'm usually not concerned if the story would make sense in real life as long as the characters are true to themselves. Maybe bc I mostly read UF and PNR. But I always have to have a HEA or a HFN. That's why I read romance, right? Don't kill the love interest in the end, unless he will be coming back to life in the next book! If the character makes a mistake, there has to be some way for him to redeem himself!
I'm not very picky and as long as the story interests me and flows well then I usually like it. I tend to judge a book on how hard it is for me to put down. If I get bored and its easy for me to take a break, then that's not good. I want to escape into someone else's life and not want to leave until the last page. And then when I'm finished, I want the story and characters stuck in my head. That, in my opinion, is what a good book should be.
As for the gender confussion, I try not question would a male or female say/do this or that, I stop bc its all sterotype! If I looked at my own relationship, I don't fit as a typical M/F couple. And I find that my fiance thinks and says things that I should but don't. Maybe that is more bothersome for male reader. Several times during ZA Maxfield's St. Nachos series, I asked myself "would a guy really say/do that". And then I think about my fiance and say "yes".
But I'm a reader, not a writer.
@ AB Gayle: Oh, re the ZAM book. Gosh, I hope you like it! Giving your relative pan of your own book that I loved (hah!), it may or may not strike you the way it did me. Again, that is in part a personal thing. But, relevant to this discussion, anyway, I think she did take a risk that for readers like me, paid off.
Mod
I think what we had here was just a little bit of fun with an excruciatingly silly app, but I agree with your point. It's a good topic for discussion.
First of all, the idea of writing "male" or "female" is artificial and inaccurate -- it is indeed based on stereotypical notions on everything from "male" subject matter to phrasing.
(Now can sterotypes be useful writing shortcuts? You betcha. But that's a topic for another day.)
Secondly, the idea that it would be desirable to write as a male in genre which is -- despite the growing number of male readers -- still enormously dominated by women is illogical, to say the least.
What you want to do -- what you should be aiming for -- is writing realistic male characters in believable stories and doing it in a warm, romantic, emotionally accessible style. Now if warm, romantic, emotionally accessible translates to "feminine" in some people's (and some computer program's) mind, oh well. But those people need to broaden their reading horizons.
The idea that there is some universally "male" way of writing is as nonsensical as the Do Penises Twitch? question.
Imagine, if you will, some guy asking a bunch of women from all walks of life whether nipples tingle when they're touched and then taking a vote and trying to come up with a definitive -- right or wrong -- answer.
And the only reason why I bring this up is because over and over and OVER again I see writers (female in this genre, but I've seen newbie male writers asking the same of females in the mystery genre) asking these insane (and inane) questions of men. These one-size-fits-all questions. Do Men...X?
And this comes from many of the very same women who've rejected writing heterosexual romance because the women characters are all flat and artificial and stereotypical.
Surely we can all see the irony here?
NOT to make heavy weather of what was in fact just a bit of fun. Those apps are always a giggle and they're harmless enough except when -- as Ocotillo points out -- we see women (as we sadly do) jubiliant on various discussion lists because this contrived artificial program has incorrectly stereotyped them.
You don't want to write some cliched version of what you imagine a man writes like. You want to write realistic male characters and powerful, original stories -- and you want to do it in your *own* style, a style that is hopefully so uniquely, intrinsically you it breaks the computer program. ;-D
Mod
Wonderful to hear this. Making readers feel, think, question, you can't ask for more as a writer. ZAM's one of those I forgot when I was listing those who I think perform consistently and well.
Mod
Right. You want to create believable male characters and to some extent that means recognizably male characters. You can also call that stereotyping or gender typing.
And while the last thing I want to do is advise you all to go out and write cliches, some of those little tips and tricks can be useful for beginning writers who TEND TO WRITE THEMSELVES INTO EVERY MAIN CHARACTER.
So we have all these thinky, talky supposed tough guys because the writers are -- as writers generally are -- thinky, talky. And I can tell you now that BOTH male and female writers fall into this. I see it with just as many submissions from aspiring male writers as I do females.
Believable characterization is damned hard work.
And the other equally important thing to remember is that you're writing romance. Even if it's a mystery or a spec fiction, if it's m/m there's a strong romance at the core of it. And romance novels require characters that readers fall in love with.
And the characteristics from our heroes and heroines that we value as a society...well, think about it. Think about your favorite main characters, male and female. What do you like about them? Do the male and female characters share any of those traits?
Mod
Exactly. You know what I hear myself saying when I get pissed off with a book? Nobody on the planet would do this.
That's where most beginning writers trip. Not because a behavior is wrong for a guy or wrong for a girl, it's because (generally) the behavior is wrong, period. That most people on this planet would not do X in these Y circumstances.
And I'm someone who allows for a lot of latitude in what people might or might not do in any given situation, so if I can't imagine it happening, it probably can't happen.
Josh:
I was wondering if you use visuals/pics when writing? Example: Do you save pics of men from the internet or a fave magazine, and file it on your computer (or in a physical file) and use it as reference? I use OneNote for my outlines, and I use a "page" of my file for the photo's of characters, places, things, etc.
I know I follow some other authors, namely female authors, who do this quite a lot. Some of them will even post photo's of the men they pictured as the protag's.
I know it's not a perfect science. As a reader, my version of tall, dark and handsome, may be completely different from the author's, but I think it's kind of interesting to see exactly what the author had in mind when creating a particular charater.
Thanks!
Leah
I was wondering if you use visuals/pics when writing? Example: Do you save pics of men from the internet or a fave magazine, and file it on your computer (or in a physical file) and use it as reference? I use OneNote for my outlines, and I use a "page" of my file for the photo's of characters, places, things, etc.
I know I follow some other authors, namely female authors, who do this quite a lot. Some of them will even post photo's of the men they pictured as the protag's.
I know it's not a perfect science. As a reader, my version of tall, dark and handsome, may be completely different from the author's, but I think it's kind of interesting to see exactly what the author had in mind when creating a particular charater.
Thanks!
Leah
Mod
I was wondering if you use visuals/pics when writing? Example: Do you save pics of men from the internet or a fave magazine, and file it on your computer (or in a physical file) and use i..."
Leah, sometimes a picture will inspire me to write, but it's as likely to be of a house or people in a room. I think it probably has to do more with a mood, something about windows shining at night or moonlight on a river...those things trigger a creative response in me. Or music. Very often a piece of music will make me see a whole scene, a conflict, a dilemma.
I don't tend to use photos the way you describe, but I think that's a great tool. I can see why readers would think it was fun.
In Mexican Heat, Laura saw the two characters as Johnny Depp and Antonio Banderas. She sent me photos of them, but I never really saw them like that (in fact, the idea of Johnny and Antonio was distracting -- their real life personalities getting in the way of what we were trying to do). I think maybe I don't visualize my characters in such a concrete way? I see them but somehow it's as much their personality that I see as their eye lashes and dimples. If that makes sense?
Josh wrote: "Leah wrote: "Josh:
I was wondering if you use visuals/pics when writing? Example: Do you save pics of men from the internet or a fave magazine, and file it on your computer (or in a physical fi..."
Right. I could never use celebrities/actors because their real-life persona's would enter into the picture too much for me as well.
I use pics/photos mostly online, of male models - Ralph Lauren has great models in his Black Label ads -
I also use some websites that "specialize" provocative male photo's ;) By using these sources, I get the visual without the personality (hee, hee).
One day my husband and I were in Northern Cincinnati at an international market and I saw the most incredible looking man. He was not only beautiful, but had an amazing "figure" on him - tall, slender waist, nice ass, etc. NOT a bodybuilder physique, but a truly gorgeous figure. I admit it, while my husband perused the Brazilian beer aisle, I discreetly followed this guy around the baked goods and permanently embedded him into my memory! I really have to stop doing that. :)
Thanks for your thoughts Josh - always interesting.
Leah
I was wondering if you use visuals/pics when writing? Example: Do you save pics of men from the internet or a fave magazine, and file it on your computer (or in a physical fi..."
Right. I could never use celebrities/actors because their real-life persona's would enter into the picture too much for me as well.
I use pics/photos mostly online, of male models - Ralph Lauren has great models in his Black Label ads -
I also use some websites that "specialize" provocative male photo's ;) By using these sources, I get the visual without the personality (hee, hee).
One day my husband and I were in Northern Cincinnati at an international market and I saw the most incredible looking man. He was not only beautiful, but had an amazing "figure" on him - tall, slender waist, nice ass, etc. NOT a bodybuilder physique, but a truly gorgeous figure. I admit it, while my husband perused the Brazilian beer aisle, I discreetly followed this guy around the baked goods and permanently embedded him into my memory! I really have to stop doing that. :)
Thanks for your thoughts Josh - always interesting.
Leah
Gosh Josh (*grin*), I sure enjoy seeing your thoughts on these things. Josh wrote: "And while the last thing I want to do is advise you all to go out and write cliches, some of those little tips and tricks can be useful for beginning writers who TEND TO WRITE THEMSELVES INTO EVERY MAIN CHARACTER. "
Now this brings up an interesting question to me. How far do you take this? I ask, because I do this (write a piece of myself into every main character). In fact, I have trouble figuring out how I wouldn't do this and still create believable characters.
To explain -- it's like I have many facets to this person who is me. Some I never let see daylight, but they are there. I think that even if I were writing a psychopath, I'd work to access that dark, angry kernel in me that empathizes with what he feels (or doesn't feel). In order to draw that character and make him at least somewhat understandable, I need to try to think how I might be able to be in his position and how that would feel.
I feel that I could (although I'll grant that I may be kidding myself) with enough time and thought, write almost any type character believably, but I'd have to do it by finding that person in myself, poking it with a stick, examing it, and trying to live in him/her for a while. I can't imagine doing it any other way. For one of my stories, I found it easier to access this 'person' by (re)writing/editing all of his POV scenes together and by playing a certain style of emotive music throughout it (I usually write with no music at all).
Does that make sense? Do you do this? Do you write some characters that have none at all of you in them? If so, how else can you understand how they'd respond to different situations? Or am I taking your comment to an extreme that isn't warranted?
I really am interested in this question, btw, not just argumentatively drawing on a tangent. It feels integral to the writing process.
Mod
Josh wrote: "And while the last thing I want to do is advise you all to go out and write cliches, some of those little tip..."
Missed this earlier. You guys should not be having interesting discussions when I'm in the middle of deadlines.
Oh. I'm always in the middle of deadlines. Right.
Mod
Now this brings up an interesting question to me. How far do you take this? I ask, because I do this (write a piece of myself into every main character). In fact, I have trouble figuring out how I wouldn't do this and still create believable characters.
I think it's true that every main character is a little bit of us. We can only write what we know. Meaning, even when we write about alien concubines, we can only bring to it what we've either experienced or researched or imagined. But it's still us. Even our research tends to be tainted by...us. We often see what we want to see. There is a very human tendency to want to prove our own hypotheses.
That is the challenge for the writer. Balancing how much of you goes into the characters you write.
Writers...well, most of us aren't Hemingway. Most of us aren't out there living the lives we write about. We're -- in general -- talky, thinky, over-imaginative and over-sensitive types. So there's a temptation when writing POV characters (in particular) to make them talky, thinky people. Even when we imagine we're writing taciturn men of action.
Rarely -- in my opinion -- do we stop to think about the psychological makeup of our characters. The tendency is to just...write. To just go all unquestioning with that creative urge. The vast majority of writers in this genre do not outline and do not create character profiles. I hear it again and again -- and in my opinion it *shows* in the writing.
And since most of the writers in this genre are still women, we get some very unmasculine-like behaviors. I'm not talking about femme characters, I'm talking about cops and secret agents and soldiers and...well, you name it. Male characters who agonize for pages and pages over what they're feeling and what the other guy is thinking -- or dialog about what everyone is feeling and thinking and...far from being like two guys, it's more like two Harlequin heroines got together. Which is quite funny since most women writing in this genre profess to destest traditional romantic dynamics.
I'm not being sexist here because male writers -- being introspective by nature -- tend to be just as bad. Pages and pages of thinking and wondering and remembering.
A big part of the challenge in creating believable characters is divorcing yourself from the equation. That comes back to being able to write characters who say things we don't personally agree with or approve of.
The best writers are accurate observers with the ability to translate what they see into readable prose. It's a weird blend of an almost scientific objectivity with a knack for wordsmithing.
Is every character you? Yes. To some extent every character must be you -- you must be able to access the heart of who that character is. But at the same time you must be able to remove yourself from an equation. So when the bad guys burst into the room your character doesn't react like you, your character reacts according to the history and the pyschology that you've bestowed upon him.
Does that make sense?
Josh, this is really cool to read. One of the units I like teaching most to my 9 and 10 year old students is the fiction writing piece. We spend a lot of time on character development. The kids have to think about their main characters in terms of physical traits, but also motivation, strengths and weaknesses, and how the outside world perceives their character.Once the kids get started, they often have the most fun just "playing" with their main characters. It's kind of like playing with a paper doll. The advantages working with children are 1) their imaginations are limitless and, 2) they aren't adults so less of themselves go into their characters. (I do get a lot of girls writing about 14 year olds, however!)
I'm going to be very happy to tell them one of the authors with whom I converse says create and design your character before you begin to write the story.
Josh, I was reading a newspaper article yesterday about a fire-fighter who was retiring after many years of cumulative injuries while on the job. She was one of the first-responders when the I35 bridge collapsed in Minneapolis. I was thinking about how dangerous the job is and I started to think that I haven't read a book in which the protags are fire-fighters and/or gay. Since you and your SO had first-hand experience with fire-fighters last summer, maybe there is a story sometime in your future stories (around 2014 or so!) involving their dangerous world. And rescuing trapped horses. Throwing that in there! ;-)
Missed this earlier...You know, whenever I post something that actually begs a response from you, I'm always feeling a little guilty from pulling you away from your work. Here is hoping that you get something out of this also, because otherwise, we are just sucking you dry. :)
In any case, I never ever expect a quick response, and am always happy when I see such thought-out ones.
I haven't been doing as much of this lately, but for a couple of my more involved works, I've gone to quite a lot of trouble to build characters. I get a picture in my head (not a literal picture, as discussed above, but a personality picture) and then sit down and try to define for myself all the aspects that characterize that personality. Background, values, loves, hates, experiences, priorities. I'll go through character charts (I'm sure you've seen these on-line) not to fill them out slavishly, but to prompt me to think about and record the odd things that make a person unique. I also have two books on character archetypes that I use. I try to identify the archetype(s) of the person I've conceived of, then read up on it to get a better handle on other characteristic that might define that person. I find this immensely helpful because it really 'stretches' me, if that makes sense. I've drawn my characters. I've written diaries/journal entries by them once or twice. And in one story (the one I sent off to you) had each character sit down and write out their impressions of who the other person was. I.e., Tesla wrote a few pages of who he thought Coyo was, incomplete with his imperfect understanding, and colored through his own lens of experience and values. All that has been immensely helpful, but frankly, it's time consuming as hell, and I can't imagine doing this if one is to publish more than a book or two a year -- even full time.
But maybe it is especially useful for beginning writers, as an exercise that we get more fluent with in time, thus allowing us to shortcut. I firmly believe that there are no shortcuts to learning, though.
So there's a temptation when writing POV characters (in particular) to make them talky, thinky people. Even when we imagine we're writing taciturn men of action.
:DD Mea culpa! But I'm getting a lot better at this, I think you'd be proud!! *lol*
Does that make sense?
Yes. Perfectly. Thanks so much for taking the time. :)
Josh:
I was wondering what your processes are for coming up with the titles of your books? (If this is addressed in M.O.M., forgive me - haven't finished it yet.)
I noticed during a re-read/scan of Fatal Shadows, Adrien is speaking with Angus, I think it was about his demonology studies, and Adrien has the thought "the hell you say...". Of course, this ends up being one of the books that centers around Angus and his ilk. Was that already planned? Do you pull thoughts, comments from previous books as titles?
Titles are fast becoming my least fave part of my WIP's! I'm leaning toward simple one word titles that may or may not be prefaced with "The" - not earth shattering, but sufficient.
Leah
I was wondering what your processes are for coming up with the titles of your books? (If this is addressed in M.O.M., forgive me - haven't finished it yet.)
I noticed during a re-read/scan of Fatal Shadows, Adrien is speaking with Angus, I think it was about his demonology studies, and Adrien has the thought "the hell you say...". Of course, this ends up being one of the books that centers around Angus and his ilk. Was that already planned? Do you pull thoughts, comments from previous books as titles?
Titles are fast becoming my least fave part of my WIP's! I'm leaning toward simple one word titles that may or may not be prefaced with "The" - not earth shattering, but sufficient.
Leah
Mod
Finding titles is not easy. And I hate having WIP without titles. So, once I have a basic plot, that's one of the next things I think about. One story I've been working on for a few years is still untitled. Heh, I wish there was an easy way to come up with titles. I guess for some it's easier than for others.
Mod
A few years ago I came up with a few characters and a plot for a trilogy. I wrote book one and discovered it was flat out boring! So, I tossed it, and tried to rewrite it a year later. I went to edit it, and it still sucked, so I tried writing other versions and they all failed, miserably. I just love the characters so much for some reason that I can't let them go, but I can't seem to find the right plot for them.
It was something you said recently in one of these posts that made me realize how unequal my main characters were which showed me just how flat and boring they are, even though I still love them so much. I'm trying to make them more interesting, and I thought I'd come up with a new plot that would work last week, but then last night, I found a new plot I sort of liked better, but by the end of the night I'd tossed that one too in favor of yet another plot.
It's beginning to drive me insane. But I love the characters and the basic skeleton of the plots. For some reason I feel determined to write this novel. I WANT to write this novel, but I can't if I'm going to keep changing my mind.
Have you ever gone through something like this and survived? Did you toss the whole thing or find a way to make it all work in the end?
I'm afraid I'll choose one thing, and then once it's complete and edited and on it's way to a publisher I'll change my mind again. *sigh* I did take a break from it, for awhile, and that's how I came to write the story about the two detectives, which I love, and I have no problems with that one, save for getting the facts right. So, I'm glad about that... but still... the old novel won't leave my mind!
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Q&A with Josh Lanyon
Books mentioned in this topic
Alphabears: An ABC Book (other topics)Rag and Bone (other topics)
As Meat Loves Salt (other topics)
The Well of Loneliness (other topics)
The Selfish Gene (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Julie Smith (other topics)Bernard Cornwell (other topics)
Robin McKinley (other topics)
Tove Jansson (other topics)
Astrid Lindgren (other topics)
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Characters who are nothing more than stereotypical gender cliches are, of course, boring. But romance novels are...romantic. So writing about a small, pretty man who cries and faints and needs some big strong other man to make all his decisions and rescue him and take care of him -- in order words, to act like the worst cliche of a romance heroine -- will not fit most of our concepts of masculine behavior. And besides, most of us are not attracted to weakness and helplessness and stupidity.
Now, it's true you could write that kind of character and maybe somehow balance it by making him a master manipulator with a will or iron and he'd be more interesting and maybe intriguing to readers.
It's a touchy subject in some ways because it gets into archaic ideas of masculine and feminine behavior -- but basically what these editors are saying is they want you to write male characters that a lot of readers, male and female, will like and respect enough to care about.