Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone
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Does anyone else besides me hate Harry Potter?
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Kayla
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May 30, 2008 10:23PM

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That goes for the creator of this discussion topic. If you don't care for a book, great! But elaborate on why you don't like the book. Give some constructive feedback. I bet there are a lot of people who don't care for the Harry Potter books. I'm sure there are quite a few people who don't even want to read the Harry Potter books either. Share with them why not to read it other than you hate it. Your personal opinion is only worth the time and effort you go into sharing it with others.
The amount of time and effort that has gone into this discussion is sqat and that's all it's worth. My opinion is this discussion needs a lot of improvement and I will not give it any more of my time.

I was actually responding to Kayla. But she probably is 10 so I shouldn't be so harsh. That was my first post in Goodreads. I assumed it would place my comment on the comment I initiated my comment, but it put it at the bottom.
I think you missed my point, too. Groovy, she doesn't like the book. Hurray for her! But why????? But again, she's probably 10 and hasn't learned about constructive writing, although I know quite a few teenagers that know how to write REALLY well, a lot better than most of the "adults" I know.
I believe Kayla's point is she doesn't like the book because it does not have a "point", although I would beg to differ. But we won't know that unless she elaborates. And calling readers of Harry Potter "idiots" is not a constructive use of this forum at all. As my mom frequently says to me, even now at my old age of 45, "if you can't say something nice (about people), don't say it at all." Seriously, why call people idiots, even if it's true? If they really are idiots, it won't impact them at all, will it? And what does that have to do with Harry Potter?
So, tell us, what is your reasoning for not reading Harry Potter, say if you were allowed to? And let me add quickly, I do not think you have to read Harry Potter to be a worthwhile individual. You must be interested somewhat if you're making comments on the novels, yes?



Of course, the answer to your question is, yes, some other people do hate Harry Potter. However, this amount of people is far outnumbered by the number of readers that LOVE Harry Potter! =)

Of course, the answer to your question is, yes, some other people do hate Harry Potter. However, this amount of people is far outnumbered by the number of readers that LOVE Harry Potter! =)

Of course, the answer to your question is, yes, some other people do hate Harry Potter. However, this amount of people is far outnumbered by the number of readers that LOVE Harry Potter! =)

I read the first one and absolutely loved it, then it went downhill from there and I just lost interest.
Or grew up.




****************************
I had heard all the hype, and my daughter's best friend was so into this book. I had to see what all the fuss was about, so while the class I was subbing was at PE, I picked up the copy that was on the regular teacher's desk and began to read. After about 50 pages, I put it down and started doing all kinds of mental exercises to clear my head of the rubbish before the kids came back.
I had never in my life read more depressing, dark, disgusting drivel. For the life of me, I have no idea what all the fuss is about or why JK Rowling is given such undeserved praise. There are so many good stories out there like the Narnia series, Lord of the Rings, and the writings of Alexandre Dumas if you like adventure. For more kid-friendly vocabulary, read Coraline, Ella Enchanted, anything by Beverly Cleary, the Alex Rider series, but fortheluvvaMike, let this garbage die a slow ignominious death. Harry's 15 minutes of fame are SO over!
I refuse to stock any Harry Potter books in my classroom, and will never recommend reading this trash, although I do not keep students from bringing in their own. Just don't try to interest me in it. Been there, done that, want my brain cells back.

The character?
The books?
If the character, well we can’t all like everyone. But he’s from the same mould that gave us a whole host of flawed heroes that tried to forge order from chaos and fought a cultural evil (Arthur, Luke Skywalker, Jack of beanstalk fame, even Pierre in “War and Peace” at a push…och, just go read some Joseph Campbell or Jung, you’ll get the idea). Anyway, as an archetype he speaks to folk on a certain level so possibly one explanation for the popularity, also people tend to root for the outsider.
If it’s the books, that leaves plot or writing as the main offenders.
OK so the plot may be a bit derivative in overall terms, but what’s totally new? Folk worship Tolkien, some going as far as learning elvish (elfan?), but if you’ve read Beowulf, the Eddas, or Kalevalla first you might find yourself shouting “Rip off!” every few pages. And old Bill Shakespeare stole ideas left right and centre. But like the blues fan that acknowledges the Rolling stones as being influential in popularising Muddy Waters etc to a new generation, I have to do the same for JK as she has repackaged a bunch of old archetypes for this one allowing them to take them as their own.
But if you think it is poorly written, how much does that matter? It’s a matter of opinion a lot of the time based on what is fashionable or personal taste. There are a host of badly written/poorly edited (in my opinion) books about that some folk take very seriously. It’s what you take away from it, the message and how it’s interpreted that counts…whether that happens to have rocked your world, made you feel less alone, or cast a light into the dark recesses of the human soul…but just as valid is the book that you enjoy for no other reason than it was a fun read. There are “classics” out there I find turgid but they speak to some people on a deep level which is why they will remain classics. Also there are guilty pleasures that aren’t cool or smart, but great fun none the less.
OK, there may be a part of the following of these books that is down to fashion, but it’s not just the book that’s important, it has barged onto the cultural landscape and, love it or hate it, it can’t be ignored…whether these stories stand the test of time and are still being read in a couple of generations though, who knows.
I may be in the minority as I have fairly mixed feelings about the books and they seem to polarise folk to one extreme or the other. The fact that more kids are reading as a result of JK’s work is reason enough to praise her as far as I’m concerned.


Ginny you seemed fairly unspecific in your criticism of the books, can you narrow it down?
I'm just here for the banter and don't have an axe to grind either pro or con the books.
Maybe rather foolishly I expected a more robust arguement.
Surely an increase in child literacy is to be applauded? Yes readers may start on HP, but if they end up with a passion for Shakespeare, Joyce, or Tolstoy is that also detrimental? They are after all popular...but as you say, "Just because something is popular doesn't mean it is good or right. Often, just the opposite is true."


I don't have to worry about banning Harry Potter at home--my children have no interest in reading those books. Yes, they do read--voraciously. In fact, I cannot punish them when they have earned it by sending them to their rooms for their books are there--it would not be punishment for them. I just have to be more creative--extra chores fit the bill.
But I digress. Right now, they are reading their summer book lists--"The Color of Water" for my daughter, who is entering AP Junior English in the fall, about the child of an African-American father and a Polish immigrant Jew growing up during the Civil Rights movement and his subsequent search for his identity and "Left for Dead" for my son, who skipped a grade and is still taking honors classes in his middle school. The latter book is about how it took a 12-year-old kid with a school project to win the 50-year battle to absolve the trumped-up charges the Navy placed upon the captain of the USS Indianapolis after it sank due to Navy red tape during WWII.
They both love serial books, having read among them (often both having read separately) the "Left Behind" series (adult and kids' versions), "Watership Down" and its sequel, the Alex Rider series, the writings of JRR Tolkein, C.S. Lewis, Alexandre Dumas, Christopher Paul Curtis, Lemony Snicket, Francis Hodgson Burnett, Ann Brashares, Louis Sachar, Jerry Spinelli, Neil Gaiman, Beverly Cleary--the list goes on and on.
As stated before, I cannot ban Harry Potter from my classroom and it is a fight in which I choose not to engage--in favor of some more important battle which may come another day. Still, I take the time to learn my students' individual preferences well enough so that I have a better alternative ready when the time comes that they are ready for a literary suggestion. When I get a chance to provide literary nourishment, far be it from me to give them the easy choice of popular junk when there is so much good stuff out there!

And to Ginny: I have read Beverly Cleary, and Lemony Snicket, and C.S. Lewis, and most of those books have less meaning, less plot, and less amount of interesting happenings. MANY and I mean MANY books are about good and evil. Why are you choosing to ignore that there are worse books out there? Lewis creeps me out, Cleary makes me snore, and Snicket makes me skip pages to skip all those boring meanings of words that I already know. I like the writing style of harry potter. HARRY POTTER IS NOT JUNK!!

The reasons so far seem to be based round those great bulwarks of rational criticism: because everyone else likes it; because its rubbish; just because.
Anyone want to elaborate?
As I said earlier, I can understand why some folk love it...but that's not what this thread is about.
Also, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. To try and get folk to express critically why the books stir this response.
My own opinion, should it be needed, is that they are OK...not wonderful and not rubbish, just OK. They're not aimed at me, but I read them to see what the fuss was about.
Why the hate? What makes people respond this way? Even if they may not have read the books.
The most articulated posting so far and the one that prompted my initial entry, claimed a background in journalism and teaching…yet the best they could do to rationalize their feelings on the books was to say (“After about 50 pages…”) they were “rubbish” and “garbage” etc. Why?
All I’m interested in is what stirs this response?

Do I "hate" Harry Potter? Hate is a strong word, and one I am loath to use--it is a banned word in my presence. I intensely dislike the inflated hype, the veneration of JK Rowling to near-godlike status by her fans, and the slavish devotion by its readers to the HP world--often abandoning the real world in the process. This argument, however, can be said of things ranging from "Star Wars" to "The Young and the Restless" to "It's a Wonderful Life."
I had entered this forum hoping for an erudite, intellectual debate and yes, a little support group here. As stated before, I know that (as a disliker of HP), I am in a minority. That's ok--I was curious as to what other people who disliked HP had to say. I have heard the eccliastical affront ad nauseum and know it by heart--and please, don't think I disagree with it. It's just that I know there have to be non-eccliastical reasons why people dislike Harry Potter and I wanted to hear those arguments for a change.
We are talking opinions, folks. Some of the authors I hold most dear, Nicole dislikes. What Barbarossa thinks is great literature is to me drivel. It's our opinions, and, contrary to contemporary thought, the world will NOT stop turning if we agree to disagree. Does anyone think less of you as a person because of your food likes/dislikes? My father, to this very day, screws up his face and playfully castigates me if I order broccoli in a restaurant--a food I love and he hates. I rag him about ordering anchovies on his pizza. We have our fun with our differences, then move on.
I'm just sorry that the world seems to have descended to the point where there cannot be an intellectual debate. Barbarossa, I am glad you are taking the role of Devil's Advocate. You are like me--I tried to see what was so good about HP, you're trying to see what's so bad. So we're not getting it--you don't "get" my side, I don't "get" yours. It's OK; the fact that we ARE approaching this analytically gives me a ray of hope.

Stick to the book if we can.
Ginny, I agree with you regarding the weird obsessive level of some fans, all things in moderation...and as you pointed out this isn't just limited to the HP books.
I also agree that, as you said:
"1. we are NOT all alike, 2. there are valid points of view other than our own, and 3. there are times when we must agree to disagree."
But I can't help but feel views expressed without rationalisation are merely knee jerk reactions in some cases.
I don't have a stance whereby I'm defending HP, if I was perceived as such. I'm just trying, as I've said previously, to get folk to try and articulate why they don't like it or in some cases hate it.
And, yes we all have different tastes. Also we can all have different interpretations of books as we bring ourselves and our own world view to the story and this acts like a filter. Even something as simple as regional variations in word use can have a massive knock on when it comes to interpretation.
I get the feeling though, that the strongest feelings about these books are based less on the written word and more on the social pnenomenon that comes with them. And that seems to work for those who love the books as well as those that hate them.
And as this is goodreads I think we should be looking more at the words...

If however you were making a rhetorical point, fair play.
Lets stay on message.

What I do hate is the hype of Harry Potter. It is spoken as the greatest children's book ever. Better than Shiloh? Better than Groover's Heart? Better than The Janitor's Boy? I could go on. The simple fact is I have read many children books that have moved me on a much deeper level then Harry Potter. I stop after the first one. There are just too many other books for me to read for me to spend time on a book that sales itself and I'm not getting much from.
What really drives me crazy with HP though is the adult's reaction to it. If a child says they love the book I can smile and ask why. But, please if one more adult tells me it is the best book they have ever read I think I might hit them with a HP. Come on it's not John Steinbeck, Mark Twain, or even an Alexandre Dumas. Again I could go on.
I also hate the way people some people want to ban it because it uses the word witch. Heads up people THE WITCHES were the innocent people who were killed by the religous fantics. These are the people I really have no time for. Sorry I had to get that out.
Someone did mention about people enjoying the outside postion. I will admit I do enjoy that myself. But, whenever something gets to hyped up there can be a problem. I know for me that happen when Babe and Forrest Gump got pushed as the best movies of the year. Enjoyable maybe but, best I don't think so.

I am SO with you about the movies--everyone loves ET, right? Everyone but me. I had never seen a film with such unlikeable characters in my life--not a one whom I'd like to know, and I so wanted to take each of those children over my knee (and I was a teenager at the time)! Blecch! Wall-e: now that's a movie with class!
Still, one thing I've learned the hard way is to keep an open mind. For 15 years, my husband tried every trick there was to get me to read "Watership Down," which I stubbornly refused to do. "I'm not reading any stupid bunny book!" I would reply. Well, one day he pulled and end-around I couldn't weasel out of. On one of only two occasions I have had to be out of town on business overnight, he began reading "Watership Down" to the kids during family reading time. Of course they were hooked, and so I had to sit and listen to it as well, and take my turn to read when it came. Now I consider it to be the greatest book I have ever read. I have read it 3 times cover-to-cover and keep a falling-apart copy in my classroom to share excerpts with my students whenever there are a few extra minutes.
On the other hand, for the same 15 years or so, I had been dying to read Robert Penn Warren's "All the King's Men." When I finally got my hands on a copy, I couldn't get past page 2 for all the times I encountered the n-word or some other racial epithet. Now I'm a Southern white, and I consider myself to be an anti-revisionist, and I know the book is merely a reflection of the time and place being depicted, but I was actually sickened by the language and returned the book the next day. I'll just stick to the Broderick Crawford original film, thank you.
It just proves the point I had tried to make originally--you have to keep an open mind with books. Some are a pleasant surprise, some are a disappointment, and some confirm your expectations or suspicions. Which books fit those categories is up to the individual.

I've had a more structured discussion on similar lines in a pub. During this a friend, fueled by 18 year old Highland Park, ranted about how the BOOKS were rubbish.
He made the following points:
1) Poor characterisation.
2) Big chunks of plot repeated from book to book (there followed a lenghtly discussion of quiddich).
3) No grey characters of note, all good guys or truly evil.
Then he went on a rant about ANY book containing elves was evil. Claiming to hate them after his experiences of Tolkien. When the lack of elf poetry in HP was mentioned he grunted and called elves in general something too rude to be mentioned outside a pub and muttered about pointy ears a lot...he was very, very drunk.
Anyway, the thing is he made points about the book, and drunk as he was backed them up...OK, sometimes in a rather odd way.
I wouldn't base my views of the bible on a brief skim of Leviticus and Job, and the behaviour of so called Christians during the Crusades. I'd miss the Song Of Solomon and all the good stuff if I did.
Sorry, maybe I was expecting more venom on this discussion topic. There seems to be no one that really hates the BOOKS. Prove me wrong and give me something to argue with or I might have to change possition for the banter...and rant about elf stuff.

Then, at the end of the same post, you wrote: "Sorry, maybe I was expecting more venom on this discussion topic." If you want venom, Honey, you ARE in the wrong place! This is a site for book lovers to engage in intelligent discussion and debate. The first rule of debate is to never lose your temper, for it invalidates the most erudite argument. Vitriol is the "third rail" in intelligent discussion--no one with a modicum of common sense will touch it, for it means someone has run out of intelligent things to say. In fact, that's why I'm here: to engage in a discussion that goes beyond "that's what I think, and if you disagree, forget you."
If you want vitriol, go to a partisan site. You will, I am proud to say, be quite disappointed here.

So far comments have noted banning of the books and a dislike of the sociological effect of the books...but no literary criticism.
That's what I was looking for.
So far very little debate on the language, characterisation, plot, overarching structure of the series...nothing. Ginny specifically metioned making her mind up after 50 pages, now fair enough but an opinion of an entire body of work based on a tiny fraction of it...well, what can I say. I don't like Shakespeare's comedies, but wouldn't condemn Hamlet based on that...and no, I am not comparing JKR to old Bill, merely drawing a parallel in the method of criticism.
Back up the opinions folks or we're wasting our time here and should be discussing something else somewhere else.
As I've said I'm fairly ambivalent about the books, just thought folk may be able to rationaly justify the stance they take.


This doesn't mean that I only read "Pollyanna"-ish happy stuff. Tom Clancy is one of my favorite authors, and there was a lot of unhappiness in "Watership Down," another favorite of mine. But I do like books that give me satisfaction in the reading. Harry Potter didn't do that; rather, it did just the opposite--I felt like I was being cerebrally assaulted. I didn't like feeling that way. It's been 10 years now (MOL), and I'm still sorry I read it.

I found that Harry Potter fits very well into the long British tradition of boarding school stories that were so popular in UK before WWII. True, witchcraft is involved, but everything else, the good teacher/bad teacher, the trips out of school, hero fighting against evil - those things are very traditional.
Looked at like that, I found they were good stories, well written. The lady obviously gave her readership what they wanted, and I would be grateful for the smallest fraction of her success. (My latest is also about a student witch, but she is at university and is both adult and romantic.)
I do not find Hary Potter anything like as satisfying as, say, Lord of the Rings, but I have read them all with enjoyment. Good stories -yes. Great literature - probably not...




Regarding the comment posted above by Ginny though:
I can understand a strong emotional response to a book...or poem/painting/art in any form. It is however difficult by the very personal nature of any emotional respnose to fully understand it. We can all argue critically over word use; plot structure etc. But ironically enough most artists strive for the emotional rather than rational response from the reader/viewer/listener and therefore bodyswerve critics as valid commentators as they remain in the realm (most of the time) of the rational.
Having said that, I don't think the response noted was the one JKR was aiming for...or maybe it was. The initial part of HP as far as I remember is focused on his neglect and abuse at the hands of his aunt and uncle and the bullying by his cousin. So not too cheery...


My only complaint is that they are too popular on goodreads and I've already read them and I want to see other books fly up the popularity ladder. I am on this website to find other amazing works of literature to read and so far it has been great for that so my complaint is only minor.



I, and many of my friends, used these books as a stepping stool to the more advanced books. Kids who normally would prefer to play video games or watch TV choose to read about how Harry deals with his cousin Dudley, and I think that is the true value of the series.

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