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Sometimes a Great Notion
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Sometimes a Great Notion
Also, for those of us who also read The Patron Saint of Liars, I thought Viv married Hank for much the same reasons as Rose married Thomas, very little reason, and then Viv runs away. What did you think of Viv? Why did she sleep with Leland? Was she in love with him? Just physical attraction? Was she just dissatisfied with her life? She left after the fight. Was it because she couldn’t stand to watch them try to kill each other anymore? Or because she couldn’t stand that they made up with each other?
Was Leland really in love with her, or was she just a tool of revenge?
Leland certainly changes at the end of the novel. Viv checks out. Is Hank really changed?
I think environmentalism is complicated in places like this, where people's livelihoods are at stake, and I thought Kesey did a great job of illustrating that. Personally I think monied interests have the power, they're often the problem, and they use the people with strong beliefs on both sides for their own gains. I think Kesey touched on this here too.I think it's a great question if he was pro-Hank. I think I was pro-Hank by the end! But I'm a staunch environmentalist, so maybe the goal is to learn to blend individualism with collectivism or something.
I've belonged to a few unions in my working life, and know they can be infuriatingly stupid, even to someone who strongly supports the concept of unionizing. So I enjoyed the humor around that.
Just a list of general thoughts to add the mix here.* This novel has layered themes. Earth. Business. Family. Women.
* We can see how foundational is honoring the Earth. Disrespect can lead to conflict within communities, families, selves (Hank looking at self) and lead to destruction of bodies and houses.
* Respect for the Earth might be a theme in Kesey's writing. Here in Sometimes a Great Notion the Earth undergrids everything else. In One Flew Ocer Cuckoo's Nest, when McMurphy wants to promote healing of fellow patient-inmates, he takes them fishing to connect them to their life force. I would like to read more of Kesey's writing to confirm this idea, perhaps Kesey's Garage Sale.
I like your framing it as respect for the earth, Cynda. It's one thing for me to love the environment cuz I take a little hike in nature, and it's another for those who have to wring their survival out of it. They know things I don't know.
I'd like to thank Tom for describing this as a manic Steinbeck. I hadn't looked at the novel that way before and the comparison is a good one.I did not look at the interview yet, There are a number of them on YouTube and I have watched a couple. But I didn't notice Larry McMurtry mentioned.in our thread He was also in that Stegner class, becoming good friends with Kesey. I think you'll find some character similarities between McMurtry and Kesey. McMurtry married Kerry's widow after Ken passed.
I see Hank as Kesey and I think the character of Hank is more clearly defined. But I think the two of them represent different aspects of Kesey and even more represent different cultural sides of the generational gap that existed at the time. Does anyone remember Archie Bunker and Meathead? They are a much simplied version of Hank and Lee. I think Kesey is able to illustrate the Hank side which is more how he grew up and the Lee side which represents his college awakening.
All the voices I was reading seemed linked to a certain character but at times I though I saw the author's voice coming out even if it was voiced the thoughts of a character. Did anyone else sense that?
I think Kesey is a master of depicting a psychological state or a philosophical position of an individual especially when that state or position is in conflict with another's and often when the state or position isn't clearly defined in the individual's mind. There are numerous examples of this in the book and all the characters seem to have a go at it. Hank's tree-topping explanation to Lee as a metaphor Hank is using to get Lee to wake up is an already stated example.
I like that Sam, that comparison of the combo of Hank and Lee being a more filled-out characterization of Archie Bunker and Meathead. Practical working class v theoretical professional class.I think a good blend of the practical and theoretical wringing survival out of the Earth might be found in The Hidden Life of Trees: What They Feel, How They Communicate: Discoveries from a Secret World by Peter Wohlleben. Very Accessible.
Mod
I think Viv is looking for a rescue when she meets and marries Hank. She wants the community, but he is an individual first, from a long line of men who practice self-preservation. She could be happy if she felt he needed her, but he tells her in a million small ways that he can get by without her...fix his own wounds. It is the neediness in Lee that attracts her. She thinks he is different than Hank, but in truth, he is less than Hank, because he only pretends to need her. At least Hank is honest. They both forget her in the end. Nobody is asking "where is Viv". She wanted something that did not exist, but I doubt she is going to find what she is after anywhere--That one somebody that puts her first above all things.
I don't think there is any question of Lee loving her. He likes her, even admires her, but I suspect that if she had agreed and left with him he would have tired of her quickly. It is not Viv he seeks, but Hank. The unfinished business with Hank has consumed his life and part of that is his inability to stop worshiping him in some corner of his mind as the big brother that no one can defeat. He has built into his head that the only way he can measure up as a man himself is to dethrone the image he has built of Hank.
I'm not sure how the loss of Joby affects her decision. He is the consummate family man, but even he risks it all and loses. Jan and the children are left just as alone as Viv is, if for a different reason.
Kesey loves the idea that the small man can beat the system, be it the conglomerate or the union, so I think he is pro-Hank. Hank doesn't represent the lumber giant, Hank only represents Hank and maybe the Stamper family.
Sam wrote: "I think Kesey is a master of depicting a psychological state or a philosophical position of an individual especially when that state or position is in conflict with another's and often when the state or position isn't clearly defined in the individual's mind."I like this observation, Sam. I felt that the style Kesey used--going back and forth in time and rapid fire from one character’s viewpoint to the next--made this ability you mention work really well. It felt like the revelation of these factors (the past, another individual) acted as a force to push the character to some realization.
I also love the Archie and Meathead comparison. As with those two, seeing Hank and Lee in conflict helps us the observers see the blindspots they both have (even if they don't see them), as happened with many viewers of All in the Family.
Mod
Okay about Earth not good topic for group discussion. Maybe more for private contemplation.
New topic I will consider. What is the Great Notion the title refers to?
Cynda wrote: "New topic I will consider. What is the Great Notion the title refers to?"Well ... I'll throw my thoughts out there, all related to the verse the title is based on. They did jump in the river at the end, didn't they, and Lee couldn't even swim. So their chances are good of fulfilling the last line.
I'm going to say the Great Notion is how best to survive. Living in the country or living in town may give us different ideas about how to do that, but bottom line, we're better off if we figure out how to tackle it together.
See your point, Kathleen. That idea goes into my mix of understanding. . . .The Introduction in the Penguin edition written by Charles Bowden may be in agreement, more or less, same topic I think:
The book demolishes all the ways we have of defining life so that it will be tame. Collectivism comes across as living death, individualism as actual death, resources as something disappearing as the family gnawed through a last virgin stand. The human-centered world vanishes at times, as the book suddenly inhabits the mind of a dog pursuing a bear or the sensations of a fish leaping in the river in a desperate effort to flee the growth on its gills. And the entire book is literally in the hands of a woman as she flips through a family album in an effort to explain the live and defeat she has witnessed and shared.
. . . . which brings me back to topic I proposed above a couple of days ago: The reason behind wars are economic concerns. The American Revolution to keep in America/North America: The taxation laws such as Tea, Sugar, Stamps were resented. Economic dependency and economic independency may be a strenuous dance of some sort until some people/bonds break apart or die or both.
I know bigger topic. . . . is a bigger book which can hold bigger ideas. . . . and many more more manageable sized ones too.
Mod
The river is an interesting symbol running through the novel. Hank is able to swim it, even in exhaustion, but it takes Joe Ben's life.
At the end of the novel I could not help thinking of Hank and Lee as echoes of Henry and Ben...brothers fighting the elements, each other, and anyone outside the circle, and reveling in their ability to do so.
The River of Life. . . .The River of Danger. . . .
Sara, as usual, I love your comments! They make so much sense to me. I do think Kesey is pro-Hank. Leland, who is a much more complex character than Meathead, joins him in the end. We don’t know if they succeed or survive, but they are both willing to risk all to take on the forces of nature which have been working against them. Hank’s very identity is wrapped up in this struggle, which is why he can never truly capitulate to community. And I think he loves Leland enough to be caught in an almost endless struggle to teach this ethos to him. I think Hank may have loved Viv as much as he was capable of loving a woman, but I agree that Leland did not, not because he was lying to her, but because he was completely incapable of love, being so obsessed with the attempt to defeat his brother. Hank did love his brother. He didn’t so much need him to help fulfill the contract, as he needed to foster him. That was demonstrated repeatedly through his actions, including when Leland was a child, and when he supported his schooling, and in his “education” of him as a logger. He was at a loss as to how to do it, but he kept trying to teach Leland to be the only kind of man that Hank could concieve of as bring worthwhile.
Lee finally overcame his natural fearful tendencies when they fought, during which Lee didn’t actually defeat Hank, but made Hank’s pushing of Leland utterly and finally unnecessary.
I think this is one of the best novels I have ever read. I didn’t expect that. I think it is comparable to Steinbeck’s East of Eden or some of Faulkner’s works. It completely stunned me!
Beautifully written thoughts, Sara. And Cynda, yes I can see the river is both life and danger. Terry, I too was floored by how good this book was. When I read East of Eden (just two years ago), I felt it was so big and powerful and special. I felt the same way about this. With all its layers, it's the kind of book that will continue to speak to me.
Kesey had to be pro-Hank to write him the way he did. I wonder if he saw Hank as his strong self and Lee as his weak self? I'm curious how you all felt about Lee. My trajectory was feeling sorry for him to enjoying his humor to intensely disliking him to accepting him in the end.
But I found Henry, cantankerous as he was, completely loveable. Joe Ben too. For maybe different reasons, neither would dream of ever giving up.
Mod
He was at a loss as to how to do it, but he kept trying to teach Leland to be the only kind of man that Hank could conceive of as being worthwhile.
Exactly! And I think they are both motivated by love, even though Lee thinks he is after revenge, I think what he really craves is understanding.
The comparison to East of Eden is perfect. They are both epic and larger than life, and they are both about seeking to understand the ways blood ties people to one another.
Kathleen - I love your trajectory, because my feelings about Hank were pretty steady, but my feelings for Lee bounced all over the place. I think, perhaps, that was because he was trying to find himself and all his negative aspects were given free rein at times.
I also loved Henry. There was something so genuine about him. Joe Ben was just a purely lovable character. It literally hurt to "watch" his slow end. I felt the pain of it so much, because he was so trusting in life and so full of it. I loved the way he was protective of Hank, because I think the rest of the world thought Hank was self-sufficient but Joe Ben knew better.
Perhaps my favorite quote was the one about the book cover, and one of my favorite scenes the one in which Hank is frightened by his own reflection in the window. The only thing Hank has to fear is self. His inability to show any weakness to Viv might cost him her love; his inability to "give an inch" might cost him his life; but no one will drown Hank, if he drowns, he will drown himself.
Cynda--Your observations about the river are so true--the coin has two sides.
Finished. So impressed - such an overlooked work. Easily shoulder-to-shoulder with East of Eden. Multiple impactful “themes” and an engaging narrative…sure… yeah, but omg the prose! For me that’s what earns this novel it’s deserved place on the “Classics” shelf. So many passages evoking that drizzly gray northwest ennui and atmosphere. The myriad conflicts, drama and emotions not merely described or explained, but rather somehow conveyed to the reader experientially via dialog or internal stream of consciousness. When Viv got sad, so did I. When Henry got excited, so did I. When Lee got high, so did I. When Hank got angry, so did I. Loved Simone’s dilemma. Eggleston’s exit. The foreboding geese. All our labor avoideth naught. Strength ain’t real… Viv’s escape. The melancholy ambiguity of the ending.
Finally: Surprising and ironic considering Kesey’s hippie/drug lifestyle, was that I kept getting a vibe of individual-good-collective-bad, and both Henry and Hank reminded me of ubermensch Howard Roark of Fountainhead. I don’t suspect Kesey was a Libertarian, but the Stampers sure are. Weird right?
Tom wrote: "The myriad conflicts, drama and emotions not merely described or explained, but rather somehow conveyed to the reader experientially via dialog or internal stream of consciousness. When Viv got sad, so did I. When Henry got excited, so did I. When Lee got high, so did I. When Hank got angry, so did I."Yes!! Great thoughts, Tom. This ability of Kesey's is what propelled me right through the novel.
And to your point about individual-good, collective-bad, I'm not sure. I keep thinking about what Kesey said in the interview Terry shared about his drug use, that what he does with his mind/body is his business. I think writing this the way he did took tremendous empathy, so I don't think his individualism was the selfish kind. I'm thinking his individual liberty leanings might be of the anti-authoritarian kind, which does fit with his hippie lifestyle. It gets confusing, due to the way some beliefs seem to have switched political parties in the last few decades, but there was a lot of emphasis on doing your own thing in hippie days, right?
Mod
I do think if you had to classify Kesey today you would be thinking Libertarian instead of Liberal. One of the books of the 60's that was very popular was "I'm OK, You're OK". I think the title captured what so many of the hippie generation were trying to embrace...true individualism, every man to make his own choice and be allowed to live with it. The idea of the collective was more of like minds willfully coming together than an effort to push a specific ideology. It was much more complicated than the modern idea of Liberalism, where a handbook can be written and everyone is expected to believe exactly the same thing or be ousted from the group.
his individual liberty leanings might be of the anti-authoritarian kind, sums it up perfectly.
Tom, I hadn’t thought of Howard Roark, but you are right! There is definitely something to compare there.Hippies did have strong anti-authoritarian leanings and I do think that is Kelsey’s approach. Hippies also learned the hard way that communes were not all that great. Sara, it is surely hard to relate the libertarian leanings of the day to current politics, though!
Joby was a great soul, and such an interesting character. As I got into the novel, I wondered what his role would be as the storytelling progressed. The death of Joby was heart breaking and hard to read, but so original in it’s conception and fitting the theme of man against nature.
I enjoyed some of the other characters, including Evenwrite, Draeger, Rod and Ray, Les and the ever present Teddy the bartender. The realtor, not so much. There were others too. But I was impressed that Kesey could populate the town with so many distinct and authentic people.
Mod
Couldn't agree more. In my clumsy way, that was what I was trying to say. I think if you had to classify it libertarian is as close as you would get, but that would still be a far cry from what existed. It is hard to convey to anyone how much politics has changed. For one thing, the hippie movement was truly grass roots...ground up. I think most politics now is orchestrated and is top-down.
So many good posts. I cannot respond to them all.Cynda, The question of the title is a good one. I think we can see the comparison to Lee's suicide attempt and Hank's despondency at having to continuosly bear it, and I absolutely agree with Kathleen and Sara that the novel is about fighting the fear of death and living it instead and that is a part of it. But Kesey is also demonstrating his belief in the power of music with the title and epigraph and we see the various musical allusions in the book. Goodnight, Irene was one of those blues tunes that was adopted by the white folk scene and there were various recordings with various degrees of success. This resulted in the song becoming a hit and plenty of people were singing the refrain without a clue what the song was about. I like to think that the epigraph and title is Kesey's positive nod to racism just like Vic is a nod to feminism. While Native American's are treated well by Kesey this and Cuckoo's Nest, black people aren't. I like to see the epigraph as an acknowledgement of his one racism. It at least makes Kesey's take on it a little more ambiguous.
The Libertarian theme is there. I think you could almost use the book as a primer if you want to define the American Libertarianism of present, but I think Kesey is showing us the costs of strong belief as well. Just as Leland makes Liberalism unattractive, both Henry and Hank's Libertarianism are consequential. Note Invidualism is also a big theme in American literature and I think we see Kesey nodding to this and other literary "isms." of the canon, including a modern and unique take on Naturalism.
There are a host of little vignettes and stories within the novel that I love.some which seem more connected to the whole than others. There are also a slew of quotable quotes especially near the end..
My favorite is also the first shown on the Goodreads quote page.
"For there is always a sanctuary more, a door that can never be forced, a last inviolable stronghold that can never be taken, whatever the attack; your vote can be taken, you name, you innards, or even your life, but that last stonghold can only be surrendered. And to surrender it for any reason other than love is to surrender love.”
Mod
There are a host of little vignettes and stories within the novel that I love.some which seem more connected to the whole than others.
Another "greatness" in this book, for me, is that each of those smaller vignettes are evidence of other lives being lived simultaneously to those of the main characters and that any one of these vignettes could have been developed into a novel of its own. A different voice, perhaps just as valid as the voices that shout in this novel above the others.
There are endless remarkable quotes. I marked dozens. The one you have selected, Sam, is one of the best.
Goodness, what a scholarly discussion you guys have been having. I can't help thinking that Hank gave up Viv at the end. He lets her go in so many words, and she escapes this life in which she joined to escape her previous life in Colorado. I do think they loved each other, but wonder about Hank's remaining devotion to Lee's mother. I never really understood why Lee's mother married Henry. She left her life at Stanford and a life that was going to take her who knows where but why did she choose Henry? They were such opposites. She was never happy in Oregon, was she? Leland missed out on a childhood in Oregon and he came to realize this and regretted it, I think. I think he saw what Joby and Hank had and he wanted it for himself. I asked earlier if Lee ever really got what Hank wanted him to from the bar fight. I think by the end when he fought with Hank, he finally realized what Hank was hoping for him to see. That Stamper motto - Never give an inch - he rose up to it's meaning and followed Hank to finish the job. He finally has come to the realization of his complete self as a Stamper and he was able to realize himself as a force like Hank always was.
I just listened to the perfect lyrics (Hah!) to accompany this book — This Is It by Kenny Loggins! Try you favorite music app to hear what i mean!
I am reading comments, considering all said. Only sdnight o much can go in review or discussion. The rest filters into the brain to be retrieved later as needed or wanted. I am not ignoring you. I just can't sound likely or logical if I respond to all.Enjoying considering what others are saying. . . .Off to listen to Goodnight Irene.
Mod
I can't help thinking that Hank gave up Viv at the end. He lets her go in so many words, and she escapes this life in which she jo..."
I wondered about Hank and Viv in the end. Is that permanent or will she return? Will Hank pursue her? But, I think Hank, like Henry, finds his life only allows for a woman as an aside, and that is not enough for Viv.
I think Hank is a younger version of Henry, and Lee would like to be a younger version of Hank...but, I think Lee is never going to be that; he is going to need to find out where he fits, being different, being himself.
I love all your questions regarding Lee's mother. It is difficult to understand how she came to be with Henry, but she is obviously never happy away from this world and back in the one she had left behind. She commits suicide. I imagine a young Henry as much like Hank, so I imagine her coming with him because she is charmed, and just like Viv, she imagines a life that is very unlike the one she finds.
Love your observations about Lee. I agree that in the end he proves he is a Stamper. By showing up, he will cement his worth in Hank's eyes, and that is really all he ever wanted.
I love what Sam said about the allusions to music throughout the book. It reminded me of when I was younger and related every big experience to a song. Then Terry finds the perfect one for this book, in This is It! I don't have to listen, I can hear it in my mind, "...you're going no further ..." Perfect, Terry.And I'm with you, Lori, in not understanding why Lee's mother took up with Henry. He must have been quite a charmer, the old coot.
I keep thinking about the music references as well. The discussion of jazz which caused the seemingly patched up relationship to split again. Lee's mention of John Coltrane (any Harry Bosch fans will have recognized this musician) makes Hank so mad and angry. I found this so interesting that music differences could cause such a divide. Hank's interests were in the more traditional Fats Domino and Joe Turner. I've been sitting here listening to John Coltrane and I like it alot! I was a saxophone player in school so I like it! But it's a world apart from Fats Domino!I actually keep wondering how in the world I could pass this read off in the music Bingo category? I don't have any other slots to place this except for in my Buffet.
Kathleen, as far as Henry goes, I think you nailed it! He's a charmer and if I remember correctly, he as much as said in his macho manner that he could have any woman he wanted.I also keep wondering if Henry's father Jonas caused him to be the macho man he wound up being simply because of his departure and leaving of the family when he was young. Henry had to take over and finish the house and basically take on all of the responsibilities that his dad shirked. I can only imagine how his father's inabilties toward family and the dream pushed him to that strong desire to succeed at any cost. He now had to make it happen. It put the onus on Henry to make the business successful without anybody else's help. So this becomes instilled in Hank and Joe Ben. Thinking about Henry in this light gives me a perspective of making and carving out a life for your family in order to provide. He made this happen where his father gave up and wimped out. It makes me like Henry despite his gruffness!
Oh, I love John Coltraine, Lori. A favorite:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCQfT...
How fun that you played the sax in school! I played the flute. Good times. :-)
It's amazing what gets passed down through the generations--the
good and the bad, sometimes in unexpected ways.
Just briekly I would like to stress Ken Kesey's prescience again which I find fascinating. He was a trendsetter but his work seems to anticipate so much of the future.We have mentioned The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test and Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas which followed and seem to flesh out what starter with Cuckoo's Nest, but continuing the seventies decade we had Ringolevio: A Life Played for Keeps, Eve's Hollywood, The Monkey Wrench Gang, Even Cowgirls Get the Blues, and The Public Burning which all seemed to relate to each other in certain ways. There are others like Jong, Pynchon and Vonnegut but what started with Cuckoo's Nest seemed to end with The Public Burning.
Did anyone else smile at the pocket review of Upcoming read The Magic Mountain in the novel?
Great read and comments. Much enjoyed.
Mod
Kathleen wrote: "Oh, I love John Coltraine, Lori. A favorite:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCQfT...
How fun that you played the sax in school! I played the flute. Good times. :-)
It's amazing what gets pass..."
This was fantastic! Thanks for sharing Kathleen!
Mod
Lori, I am in awe of anyone who plays a sax. One of my favorite instruments. One of my favorite songs ever was Baker Street, and that was in no small part to the emotional draw of that saxophone.
Sara wrote: "Sad to say I have never read a single one of those books, Sam. I find The Rosenberg affair fascinating, so I'm amazed The Public Burning got by me."Though this is not the topic for discussing The PublicBurning, i think it is worth the plug. It is a postmodern satire and not fot too sensitive readers because it has some bite. One of my favorite books of the late twentieth century with a lot of playful innovations l ike having real people like Richard Nixon and imagined concepts as characters. Maybe I will get a buddy read going in the cuture.
I liked the Coltrane link as well but I was thinking it was something more like Giant Steps that was pissing off Hank.https://youtu.be/30FTr6G53VU
Mod
What a showcase piece that Giant Steps is! Thanks, Sam, and so true, Sara. Coltrane could do it all.I really need to get the paper book of Notion. That section where Hank and Lee talk about jazz would be fun to re-read and look into some of the songs they were referencing. Definitely a book that keeps on giving!
I also want to thank Terry, Klowey, and Kathleen for bringing back memories of the Bay Area during the 60's/70's. I lived in the area during the first half of the 70', spending time in SF, Berkeley, Oakland, and Palo Alto before I left. I liked going to music venues so if you went to Winterland, Keystone Berkeley, Smiley's or the Bach Dancing and Dynamite Society, I might have seen you
Sam while I have read Even Cowgirls Get the Blues, I have not read any of the others. I keep thinking I will read at least 2 more on that list, but have not yet read Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test, maybe more in time. . . .And now also wanting to reading Kesey's Garage Sale. All sound satire-filled delights
I would say Fear and Loathing and Acid Test are must reads if you like Kesey. Even though they are fueled with over the top drug taking, the manic intensity of the prose never stops and both Thompson and Kesey were larger than life counter culture heroes so there is now a historical element to them. If you don't like the drugs try Tom Wolfe's The Right Stuff
Thanks for warning Sam. I have been called out for suggesting myth retellings that show ancient insensitivities toward women. . . oooh. . . .So I too warn now. I will read on joyfully, delighting in others's antics while I sit safely at my kitchen table.
So many posts to respond to!Love Coltrane. In 1968 when I lived in the Haight Ashbury, SF had a jazz station and my impression was they played Coltrane every night. But I left before the 70s. Except I did visit my friends in the Castro a couple of times later. But that’s a while other story!
I went to see concerts at the Winterland, Fillmore West (Procal Harem, Santana, Steve Miller Blues Band, Jim Kweskin Jug Band, Steppenwolf, Country Joe and the Fish) and saw Janis Joplin and Big Brother and the Holding Company not ten feet away from where I sat on the floor at the Straight Theater on Haight Street. In fact, the Big Brother with the blond hair used to hang out with me on the street some days.
I have read Even Cowgirls Get the Blues, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (and On the Campaign Trail) and tried to read The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test. Hunter was an amazing writer and yes, larger than life, even when surrounded with television anchors and pols like Teddy Kennedy. He is definitely worth reading, even if you can just find one of his essays!
Cynda, I would read Garage Sale with you, but I hesitate to commit touch more until the end of the year.
On page 566 of my copy, Kesey goes through a whole list of songs: Coming with Summer, Stranger on the Shore (I remember that one), Swinging Gently, Twistin the Night Away (gotta love Sam Cooke), Jane Jane Janing, Birdman of Alcatraz, Dardenella, Let’s Forget About the Past and Why Hang Around.Stranger on the Shore: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hVWfK38...
Twistin the Night Away: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zTArYTv...
Then Joby sings along to Leaning on the Everlasting Arms. Here is a clip of that song:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FBJgFa4...
Lori, music is certainly discussed, referenced and plays a major part in that one fight between Leland and Hank, so I say, Yeah, sure, go for it.
This is awesome, Terry! I can’t wait to spend time watching these clips. I have always been a music lover but it’s not my go to activity but with all of these discoveries I will be giving music more presence in my day to day activities.And thanks for the go ahead nod, I just may do it!
Catching up on Classics (and lots more!)
Books mentioned in this topic
The Right Stuff (other topics)The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test (other topics)
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas: A Savage Journey to the Heart of the American Dream (other topics)
Even Cowgirls Get the Blues (other topics)
Kesey's Garage Sale (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Peter Wohlleben (other topics)Oscar Wilde (other topics)
Then there is the “no man is island” theme. We think that Hank has capitulated almost to the end, but then on Thanksgiving, he reverses. What makes him do that? It isn’t clear to me that he, Leland and Andy can actually succeed, and it is possible that they might not even survive the effort.
Knowing a little bit about Kesey, you might think he would actually be pro-union. But at the end of this book, he is more pro-Hank. Is that because he places a higher value on individualism, freedom to do what is in his own best interests?
I wonder how much of an environmentalist Kesey became. Clear cutting certainly became a hot environmental issue by the 1970s.