Sometimes a Great Notion

[Sara, Old School Classics]

I'm on page 75, Lori, so we are pacing together. I am also happy to have Lee's story unfold in a somewhat linear fashion. The telephone conversation with the roomie was funny. I'm interested to see how his meeting with Hank goes, since the visions we have in our heads are seldom the truths we find in reality.

[Terry]

Lori and Sara, you will both be happy to know that Hank’s story is a bit more linear as well.

[Cynda]

Thank you Terry for the little glimpse into the real world than uniform literary one. Nice.

[Cynda]

Manic Steinbeck! Good. I will use that to better understand the energy. . . .And the audio seems to hope the best promise of me getting through this novel. Two librarians couldn't figure out how to order book ILL, so maybe audio will have to be how I get the story. Working okay. The article helped. Thanks Tom, Terry, Kathleen.

[Terry]

Cynda, it gets easier to read once you are into the book.

[Candi]

Lori wrote: "I have also laughed at Lee’s musings and the way he informed his roommate about the state of their apartment before getting on the train west. I was actually pleased that Lee’s story hasn’t been in..."

"Manic prose" made me laugh :D I'm struggling with it a bit right now all of a sudden. The constant shift of narration, etc. I'm about 15% and hope I can get back on track and follow the thread! I have been so distracted lately, it's difficult to read a story that's not straightforward. I'm most delighted by the descriptions of the natural surroundings!

[Sara, Old School Classics]

I had the same experience, Candi, but have pulled back into it now. It is very easy to get lost if you cannot fully concentrate.

[Sam]

I grew up on this and it is a reread for me but it amazes me how time relevant the novel seems to the period it was written and also how I can't read Hank saying "Bub," without hearing Paul Newman or see Joby's name without seeing Richard Jaeckel.

[Kathleen]

I'm having trouble concentrating too on and off (wishing I had a hard copy), but so far I'm getting back easily, and the picture does sort of fill in as we go.

It does feel of a time period, however I've been in rural Oregon recently, and think these conversations are still happening there!

[Terry]

Oh yes, Kathleen! You are so, so right! And Sam, my brother’s dog was named Bubba so it so culturally fits. He lives near the Oregon California border on the coast. But I wouldn’t exactly say that the culture is stuck in the 1960s. Its just parallel, if that makes sense. But don’t we all have parallels to places and times?

[Kathleen]

I love what you say about parallels, Terry! So true. I have at least a couple, running all the time next to my reality. :-)

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Indeed, so do I. Nicely put, Terry.

Sam, I saw the movie ages ago (probably when it was released) but Newman is imprinted on my mind when I read Hank as well.

[Terry]

Sara, did he play Lee?

[Sara, Old School Classics]

No, he played Hank. Henry Fonda played Henry. Don't remember who played Lee and don't remember much of anything about the movie. I plan to watch it again when I finish the book, though.

[Terry]

I may have to search for a DVD!

[Sam]

Michael Sarrazin played Lee. Lee Remick was Hank's wife. Jaeckel got an Academy Award nomination for best supporting actor which was well deserved. Ben Johnson won the Oscar for his role in Last Picture Show.

While the novel captures the period Zeitgeist it by no means is too dated or limited to the period. I think Kesey actually anticipates that 1969/1970 time when the Summer of Love innocent optimism became more realistic. The novel is fascinating if one looks at political philosophical overtones and compare them to what followed in history to the present. I am only 25% in but I don't remember the term Libertarian being used though, the Stamper's live its creed.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

The bobcat story (view spoiler)[tells us a lot about Hank. Nothing stops him, but he feels more than he lets on. (hide spoiler)]

[Lori]

About your spoiler Sara: (view spoiler)[Hank could never really show any feelings with a father like Henry so we get the tough guy persona. But I think you’re right that there’s more to him deep down. I hope we see that side of him more especially with Lee coming back. (hide spoiler)]

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Lori: (view spoiler)[Lee could be the key to unlocking Hank. (hide spoiler)]

[Cynda]

When the trees start the run out, all that is thought about by the leaders of the town is how to make more money--at least how to keep the money moving in. That Hank has stockpiled logs to keep his money flowing is wrong to the leaders of the town but seems rather usual business practice done by those who can.

On Quora I once asked a business manger of a lumber business if the lumber business owner he works for ever considers the health of younger family members, considers how will younger family members will breathe when the trees are all gone.

The business manager said that yes, that the lumber business owner considered this problem, but did not knpw how to solve it. If he does not cut down the trees, the business owner will noypt be able to support his family while other lumber owners will increase production anyway. The business owner does not know how to stop cutting trees.

This is position of Hank. He must stockpile or others will.

Horrifying, isn't it.

[Kathleen]

Cynda wrote: "When the trees start the run out, all that is thought about by the leaders of the town is how to make more money--at least how to keep the money moving in. That Hank has stockpiled logs to keep his..."

It is horrifying, but like so many issues, underlines the complexity of so many of these issues, and that addressing people's personal concerns is needed to come together on them.

I'm finding there's much more to Hank than I expected. I'm about 25% and after really enjoying the Lee homecoming, I'm now learning more of Hank's backstory.

These are such great characters! It's been an entertaining read, but it's becoming enlightening too.

[Cynda]

Yes. There is entertainment. I enjoyed how Leland who has been diagnosed with schizophrenia with delusional tendencies first thinks he himself is crazy and then thinks his family is crazy. How easily some use the word "crazy" which is in itself a lightest tinge of crazy thinking.😉 Funnier/weirder: self-referential to Kesey who had published One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest not long before.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

OMG, I like Viv.

[Kathleen]

Sara wrote: "OMG, I like Viv."

I know--isn't she great?!

[Sara, Old School Classics]

A steam donkey

[Sara, Old School Classics]

[Sam]

Thanks Sara.

I agree about Viv.

Kesey is very good at showing sensitivity to topics like sexism or racism while having the most blatant displays of negative behavior from his characters. I think it is one of his talents.

I am enjoying the movement from the consciousness of one character to another especially between Leland and Hank. There is a little fog during a transition and suddenly you are clearly in the mind of one or the other.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Keeps you awake going from one mind to another and also a little jarring when the voice switches from third to first person abruptly. It sounds like something you would hate, but I have kind of fallen into the rhythm of it. Reminds me of the way you can read a word if all you have are the vowels placed.

[Terry]

Sara, thanks for the pics of the steam donkey! —Which reminds me, about the time that my grandmother’s family moved to Coos Bay, she worked as a cook in a logging camp. I would guess that would have been some time between 1920 and 1925, before my aunt was born, because by then she was in the Central Valley (CA). Her twin sister remained in the Coos Bay area.

[Terry]

Sam and Sara, at first I felt like Kesey was just playing us, but after getting into the novel, and getting somewhat used to the changes in point of view, first person- third person, and even time periods, i am actually enjoying it.

Also, Sam you are right about the sexism and racism points that Kesey makes. He definitely shows how toxic masculinity has adverse effects on Leland!

And I am not sure what to think about Leland’s paranoia. I guess that is what it is, but some of it seems justified.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Terry - How interesting that you have so much background that can be seen in this novel. I know that must add a level of enjoyment to it.

I also feel that Lee is somewhat justified in the feelings he arrived with. It would be difficult to live up to the kind of older brother Hank is without all that extra baggage of what he knows about his mother and having been spirited away and raised apart.

They really want to reach out and understand each other, but that is not going to be an easy place for either of them to reach--maybe impossible.

[Kathleen]

Yes, I think Lee has a bunch of justifiable baggage. I agree that changes are less jarring as we go, and I too am enjoying it. It's actually working to see the whole picture. It's like we're jumping from one person's shoulder to the next. And there's such a soft side of Hank showing up since Lee's return.

Thanks for the steam donkey pics, Sara!

[[deleted user]]

I'm late to this thread, but I just have to add, I LOVE this book. I think it's Kesey's best. It's heartbreakingly beautiful. I read it a long time ago and it still with me.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

I'm glad we are all finding it readable at this point. I think it is interesting how your (my) mind made the adjustment. I am following without a hitch...but, I think you do have to concentrate on this book.

Tina - I love that you say it stays with you.

[Lori]

I had a couple of days away from this story and only had time so far today for 10 pages but I concur with all everyone has said about the flow getting more natural. I’ve just gotten to the part where Hank meets Viv after coming home from war. I’m still curious about the people we’ve met that are secondary characters like Indian Jenny, Evenwhite, Draegar…I’m sure I’ve missed a few.

I am also enjoying this.

[Kathleen]

Lori wrote: "I had a couple of days away from this story and only had time so far today for 10 pages but I concur with all everyone has said about the flow getting more natural. I’ve just gotten to the part whe..."

I'm VERY curious about Indian Jenny--she's written in such an intriguing manner.

I'm in about the same place as you are Lori, and I won't be able to read more until the weekend, so hope to catch up then!

[Terry]

Tina, I am glad you have joined us. Please jump right in with comments!

I am also dying to know more about Indian Jenny and how she fits into this story! With so many characters to keep track of, the movie script must have been difficult to pare down.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Indian Jenny is definitely the most mysterious character so far. I can fit everyone else into the story, but she seems to be out on the edge, teasing us.

[Terry]

For those of you who might not know what a stick of Beeman’s might be:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/010...

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Ha, ha, Terry. I have chewed many a stick myself...the clove was my grandfather's only gum.

[Terry]

I was trying to figure out the time period with the reference to the Giants — who moved to San Francisco about the same time the Dodgers moved to LA, I think about 1958. Prior to that, there were no baseball teams west of St. Louis.

The film showing of Summer and Smoke (with Paul Newman!) gives us a year to pin the story to: 1961. - page 254 of my book.

[Cynda]

the Wrigley's Double Spearamint television ads were popular when I was growing up. Yet Beeman's was a option at some stores.

[Kathleen]

I remember both, but the Clove scared me a bit. I was a double your pleasure girl. :-)

And I was also thinking of the timeline. 50 pages or so back from where you are Terry, there was talk of the General in the White House, and Eisenhower's term ended in 1961, so I was thinking it had to be 60-61.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

I had also placed it at 1961 by Eisenhower, Kathleen. There are a lot of details that really capture that time period. The move from the 1950s to the 1960s was a significant era change, and I think the novel catches the turbulence and chaos of the times that we can see them reflected in the generations within the house. Henry and Ben's times are spoken of with a sense of nostalgia, Hank and Joby represent a bridge, and Lee is full of the angst and uncertainty that became the vanguard of the 60s.

[Candi]

I'm tiptoeing in quietly to say that I had to set this aside for now. I cannot concentrate at all! My daughter is graduating next week, and I'm traveling to Europe for the first time at the end of the month. I'm too scattered for the attention this deserves! I tried starting another book and set it down too! :(

I'm glad you are all enjoying this, and it encourages me to read in the future :)

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Sorry not to have you here, Candi, but happy for the reason. Exciting to have the trip to Europe! And, congrats to your daughter. You will be a true empty-nester soon.

[Lori]

Aw what a wonderful way to spend your time right now. I echo Sara and wish you a spectacular trip and kudos to your daughter! I just graduated my youngest from college a few weeks ago and the nest is totally empty now. So I feel your anxiety and your joy!

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Just finished the section with Molly (view spoiler)[and the snake. This bothered me so much, because not only was she in the pain of the bite, but she was fighting to get back to Hank. Wrung out my heart.

I figured on Lee and Viv having some sexual tension, but I hate the way Lee is just thinking of her as a way to get revenge on Hank. And, when the real explosion comes, I wouldn't want to be in the same county with these two, let alone be Viv standing between them. (hide spoiler)]

[Terry]

We will miss you, Candi, but i can completely see how you must have your mind on happy things right now. I hope you get to Paris (my favorite)!

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Just passed the halfway point. The fight with Biggy. This is one of those books that grows on you as you read, until it reaches a point where you can hardly bear to put it down.