Sometimes a Great Notion

[Candi]

Thank you for understanding, ladies! I'll be on the lookout for reviews of the book later! :)

[Tom]

I’m about 2/3 done. Loving it and I’m actually vacationing on the Oregon coast this week! Seeing the small towns, the landscape, rivers and environment and even a lumber mill have me expecting to run into Hankus or Henry or Lee on the street some afternoon.

The middle section of the book has not too much action - kind of a slow boil w/ lots of different tension building up. All characters still have TWO arms at this point….

What happened to the dog Sara? PM me to avoid spoiler.

[Lori]

Wow, Tom you timed your reading and vacation perfectly! Enjoy. I’ve never been further north on the west coast than San Francisco but can imagine it’s quite breathtaking.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Tom wrote: "I’m about 2/3 done. Loving it and I’m actually vacationing on the Oregon coast this week! Seeing the small towns, the landscape, rivers and environment and even a lumber mill have me expecting to r..."

What fantastic timing! It would be awesome to be on the Oregon coast right now. I'm delighted that you are finding the scenery matches the descriptions from Kesey.

About the dog: (view spoiler)[She is bitten by a snake while chasing a bear. We know something has happened to her, but not exactly what, as Kesey makes her part of the POV shift. First time I can remember hearing the thoughts of an animal in the midst of a book that isn't specifically about animals. Anyway, she drags herself back to Hank when she hears him calling and that is when we find out it was a snake bite. (hide spoiler)] Made a lasting impression on me how this was done. I think it might be one of the scenes from the book that slips into the brain and never dislodges.

[Tom]

Yeah but then what happened to Molly after that? Is she (view spoiler)[ still alive or did they have to put her down? Because she doesn’t reappear afaik (hide spoiler)]

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Molly: (view spoiler)[I think she dies in Hank's arms, Tom. The last thoughts we have from her are:

She tries to snap at them when they pick her up. She doesn't remember who they are. They are all part of it now. Like the MOON and the FIRE and the LOG and the BEAR, all BEAR, all HOT COLD DARK in her fevered confusion, and part of the same big ENEMY the way the WATER has become part, and REST; even SLEEP...

I think the use of the ellipse here indicates she stops thinking and enters that sleep that has become her enemy. (hide spoiler)]

[Tom]

Molly: (view spoiler)[It was a powerful reflection on Hank’s strength and Alpha energy that even the dog recognized it and when she was hurt it was imperative to Get To Him. But I’m just not convinced she dies. “Hank lays the unconscious dog in the boat and stands up. “Do me a favor, Joby; drive her to the vet’s for me . . . ?”” You reckon a Stamper would take a dead hound dog to the vet? (hide spoiler)] I don’t know why I’m so hung up on this detail. That isn’t true - I’m dog crazy.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

lol. So true, Tom. I had forgotten that! I suppose this is just a mystery Kesey has left for us.

[Cynda]

Enjoy yourself Candi. We'll be here at Catching Up when you get back. See you then.

[Cynda]

The.story is starting to catch my attention. I read from 21% to 33%. Stopped only because wee hours of morning and cannot focus anymore. Nice. . . .

[Kathleen]

Glad you're enjoying it, Cynda. I'm having a hard time keeping up because audio (though it's a fantastic performance!) just isn't a good reading option for fitting into my schedule. I'm a little over a third of the way. Getting to the Molly references, and even though I'm dog crazy too, I'm avoiding the spoilers for now! Hoping to get a chunk more read today, but will probably keep trailing the group.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

One of the things Kesey does so well is using mundane details to draw you into the events as they unfold. It might seem like overkill in some hands, but not in his. I love the scene (page 448 in my edition) where (view spoiler)[Hank is frightened by his reflection in the window. I almost jumped with him. I think it is very significant that the thing that frightens him the most ends up being himself. And, also that he is unaware, for that moment, of who it is, as if he were a stranger to himself. (hide spoiler)]

[Sara, Old School Classics]

I am at page 504 and this last section has left me weak and shaking. Drained.

[Lori]

Oh Sara! I fell behind you but know those of us are still reading along. I’ll try to post something from where I am when I get a chance to later. I’m wanting to open your spoilers. I think it’s safe to open the Molly ones- I’m on page 286.

[Kathleen]

I'm a little over halfway now and can see how this can become an obsessive read!

I did so love the Molly sections. (view spoiler)[I'm with Tom, and assumed if Hank asked Joby to take her to the vet, there was still some hope for her. Such fantastic writing here: the way Molly's viewpoint was portrayed--"Rest, no. Yes. Him, yes, walk." Oh, my, that was so realistic! After reading I immediately had to go tell my husband about it, and reminisce about when one of our dogs was in such pain and bit him (the section where Molly feels the people and everything have blurred into the pain) and how our dog walked toward us in such a difficult last gasp (Him, yes, walk). Gut wrenching but so well done! (hide spoiler)]

Another part I loved, not too long after that, was the way Joby describes their senior year of high school how Hank always knew what was going to happen, and what was eventually going to be needed for him to do because of it. What a perfect part for Paul Newman--Hank is the epitome of cool.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Lori wrote: "Oh Sara! I fell behind you but know those of us are still reading along. I’ll try to post something from where I am when I get a chance to later. I’m wanting to open your spoilers. I think it’s saf..."

That is about the point where I started reading this obsessively, Lori. Trying to read while brushing my teeth. lol. Will be looking for your thoughts.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Kathleen wrote: "I'm a little over halfway now and can see how this can become an obsessive read!

I did so love the Molly sections. [spoilers removed]

Another part I loved, not too long after that, was the way J..."

Something about the Molly story just grabbed me and wouldn't let go, and you have nailed part of the reason why, Kathleen. There are so many places in the story when you just do a gut-wrenching double-take.

I agree about Newman. I have had him in my head the entire time I have been reading. He and Hank are pretty distinctive characters...good casting, I would think. I'm anxious to see the movie again after all these years.

[Lori]

Sara wrote: "Lori wrote: "Oh Sara! I fell behind you but know those of us are still reading along. I’ll try to post something from where I am when I get a chance to later. I’m wanting to open your spoilers. I t..."

That's funny, Sara! I am doing a little at a time and today haven't had any time for this one. My husband has outdoor yard projects that require my assistance this week so.....
I will get back with my thoughts.

[Kathleen]

Sara wrote: "Kathleen wrote: "I'm a little over halfway now and can see how this can become an obsessive read!

I did so love the Molly sections. [spoilers removed]

Another part I loved, not too long after th..."

I noticed in a part a little later, (view spoiler)[just before the fight in the bar, Hank's internal dialogue is much like Molly's, like an animal's would be. Then later Lee describes Hank as animalistic. (hide spoiler)] I'm so impressed with this writing.

Had to laugh at you saying you were trying to read while brushing your teeth, Sara. I've noticed that when a book really captures us, we can always find ways to read!

[Cynda]

I am reading too--40%.

I wonder how much Leland's comments are really Kesey's--those comments about reading and studying more than playing and enjoying Nature and Her Bounty.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Kathleen wrote: "Sara wrote: "Kathleen wrote: "I'm a little over halfway now and can see how this can become an obsessive read!

I did so love the Molly sections. [spoilers removed]

Another part I loved, not too ..."

Good pickup, Kathleen. I always feel like I miss so much with a book like this one and just want to start over when I have finished. About your second spoiler (view spoiler)[I love the way he writes. You can feel when Hank zones out and just sees the man he is fighting like an object in front of him that he cannot give into. (hide spoiler)]

This is a pretty gritty book and yet there is absolute poetry in so many of Kesey's passages.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Cynda wrote: "I am reading too--40%.

I wonder how much Leland's comments are really Kesey's--those comments about reading and studying more than playing and enjoying Nature and Her Bounty."

I also suspect that Lee is the character Kesey, himself, might be the most like.

[Terry]

I am at 43%, page 330. I totally agree that Kesey is channeling Leland, or Leland is channeling Kesey!

I hope that’s not an electric toothbrush, Sara! 😂

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Actually, it is, and the attempt to do both at the same time was not a resounding success.

[Terry]

I picture toothpaste dots all over the mirror! That’s what would happen if i attempted to read while using my Sonicare!

[Kathleen]

I can believe that about Kesey being like Leland. I think there's a bit of Hank in Kesey too though. 😉

Thinking of Leland's traits, and what Sara said about the writing being gritty and poetic, I'm finding that combo so compelling. Sort of like rural folks I've known in Oregon (and everywhere, surely) who surprise you by quoting Shakespeare and spouting off the names of delicate flowers in the middle of chopping wood or something. This book started out sounding stereotypical, but there's plenty of stereotype-busting in it.

[Cynda]

I feel years roll back, back to the time when men here at least wore knives in their pockets and had tools in their vehicle. . . . Archie Bunker might have missed the men of his youth.,. . . and then so do I. . . . This novel brings them back a bit.

[Tom]

I love the little interludes I think of as ‘synchronicity reviews’ where, say at a day’s end KK will run a little inventory of what everyone is doing in the SaGN world at that simultaneous moment. Just a phrase or two each. Indian Jenny mixes a potion. Draeger scratches his athlete’s foot. The bug zapper at The Strand zaps another bug. So cool. But there’s one of these that occurs near the beginning, when young Lee is leaving home with his mom and he’s telling Hank ‘Just you wait’. In this one, which I’ll quote, Kesey lists several events (present tense) as if they’re all happening at once, but I now know that some of the things mentioned are in the past, some in the present and some foreshadowing the future. Wow this is a well constructed novel.

“Jonas pulls, straining at the fog. Joe Ben goes into a state park with a brush knife and an angel’s face, seeking freedom. Hank crawls through a tunnel of blackberry vines, seeking thorny imprisonment. The arm twists and slowly untwists. The logger sitting in the mud calls curses across the water. “I’m hollowed out with loneliness,” the woman cries. The water moves. The boat moves with measured heaves. Rain begins to fall suddenly; the wink of a million white eyes on the water.”

[Kathleen]

I'm so glad you pointed those out, Tom. Great examples of what he does here--reminding us of the characters and kind of letting time fall away and dealing with what is left. So brilliant.

It is shocking this book isn't more widely discussed. I'm starting to think of it like The Sound and the Fury--a little difficult to follow but so rewarding if you hang in there, and so evocative of a time and region.

This article tells how it was appreciated in the Northwest--saying it was their Moby Dick.
https://www.seattlepi.com/ae/books/ar...

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Terrific post, Tom. I also loved those interludes that made you feel the passage of the time in each of the lives and I think it is masterful the way he moves you through the present, past and future without losing you along the way.

When I finished, I felt like I could have started over and picked up on all the nuances that I absolutely knew were there and often missed. It is a novel that bears reading twice.

The year it was published, the Pulitzer committee did not award a prize because nothing worthy was written. WHAT???? Of course, no one appreciated Moby Dick when it was written either, and Faulkner got panned for The Sound and the Fury (which also came to my mind, Kathleen).

Thanks for the article!

[Lori]

I agree that those interludes really stand out. I have come to look forward to those sections because I need to know what’s going on elsewhere. Thanks for stating it so well. I haven’t been able to put to words what these parts were but have wanted to comment on them.

[Kathleen]

Sara wrote: "I am at page 504 and this last section has left me weak and shaking. Drained."

I'm there, and not sure what to do with myself. Read on and try to recover? Run away and try to stop thinking about it? But too drained, as you say, to even make that decision. Argh.

[Brian E]

Sara wrote: "The year it was published, the Pulitzer committee did not award a prize because nothing worthy was written. WHAT???? ..."

True, the 1964 Pulitzer for fiction was not given out. However, I think that with a publication date of January 1, 1964, Sometimes a Great Notion probably would have been eligible for the 1965 Pulitzer Prize instead. I think the prize normally goes to books published the prior calendar year.
For instance. the 1965 winner, The Keepers of the House was published on February 12, 1964. The recently awarded 2022 Fiction winner The Netanyahus was published on May 5, 2021.
Although I'm not 100% sure about this, if I am correct, please don't take the award away from The Keepers of the House and give it to Sometimes a Great Notion. While Notion may be grander and more of an American epic like Moby- Dick, Keepers needs the Pulitzer recognition or it will completely fade from view. Kesey's works will survive without this recognition due to his counter-culture celebrity status.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Kathleen wrote: "Sara wrote: "I am at page 504 and this last section has left me weak and shaking. Drained."

I'm there, and not sure what to do with myself. Read on and try to recover? Run away and try to stop thi..."

I had to put it down and go take deep breaths, Kathleen. I felt like a watch that had been over-wound by the time it was done.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Brian wrote: "Sara wrote: "The year it was published, the Pulitzer committee did not award a prize because nothing worthy was written. WHAT???? ..."

True, the 1964 Pulitzer for fiction was not given out. Howeve..."

I'm sure you are right, Brian. I didn't check anything but the year and equate it to the empty slot on my Pulitzer list. Some years there are tons of books worthy of prizes and some years a dearth...but then you find that is true of all awards. I am definitely not trying to take anyone else's prize to give it to Kesey. Keepers is a keeper for sure.

[Terry]

Kathleen, I also compare it to The Sound and the Fury. The points of view, various characters and the novel’s scope are fascinating. This novel may not be easy reading but it has great merit and i think may be under appreciated.

[Cynda]

Yes Kathleen, I think you very much right. In his more popular One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, the connection between working class-thug Randel McMurphy and Kesey is more apparent. The working class-business operator Hank is much like McMurphy who is much like Kesey.

[Cynda]

Sara I like you said in message 112.
I see the reference to previous literary work: The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde.
also
I see reference to emotional spiritual difficulties like in Kesey's own work One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest

This is not by accident. Popular thing to reference other works, other texts during the period after WWII. . . . Could this be a reason why Pultizer committee had difficulty selection a work as many of the literary works reference other works.. . . . aNow we think "arty" whether we personally like it or not. Perhaps poor Pultizer comkittee did nit kniw what it was looking at--too avante garde for them, maybe.

[Cynda]

55%.
I am going to let brain process for day or two. Be back soion.

[Lori]

I just reached 60% so we are right with each other, Cynda. So much to process. I’m not good at stopping the reading to come and post and I apologize.

[Cynda]

Took me days to post too Lori. If you too are about 60%, I will break for only 1 day. . . . .See you here soon to compare a note or two, if we can make ourselves do it 😉

[Terry]

I am at 53%. I loved the evocative writing of the interlude where Joe Bob remembers the high school fight that Hank could not avoid. It seemed so real to me. Kesey has all the lingo (give a rat’s ass) and the culture ( 2,4,6,8, who do we appreciate) of the times written into to those pages.

[Cynda]

Terry, I noticed that too, probably about same place in story, that the lingo while not fresh has stood the test of time of over a half a century now. How little lingo remains the same for that length of time . . . . Keeps the novel current as ecological concerns, family differences, class issues, and lingo remain similar enough for us to understand.

[Lori]

Terry and Cynda, the high school fight story- you’ll see why it is told in the next pages. I’m realizing the Kesey sets up the stories from the past to make connections to future events. They are behaviors that return because they are who Hank is - macho, rugged but intelligent.

Thru page 345 - (view spoiler)[Do you guys think Lee “got” what Hank wanted him to see in that fight? Lee making a play for Viv - Lee thinks Hank knows. I’m not sure he does but a man senses these things doesn’t he? Lee thinks Hank is telling him to WATCH OUT if he doesn’t back off. I just think Hank wants Lee to learn a lesson about strength and intelligence. Big Newton was a bigger man and could easily take Hank but he wasn’t smart in his fights like Hank. This coming after Hank saves Lee from the waters and wants Lee to learn not to back down from those bullies. What is your take? (hide spoiler)]

[Cynda]

I believe I did listen to this part Lori. I thought: Really Lee you really want your brother to know about flirtation with wife. What bravado. . . . .Perhaps the bravado of an academic man in a working class world, a thumb to the nose type of thing, a lesser status man getting the attention of a wife of a higher status man?

[Cynda]

Then. . . . .In 1960s colleges and universities were beginning to see a surge in enrollments. So not just lower status man getting attention of higher status woman. Maybe even an inkling by the narrator that society was changing from working class to professional and service classes.

[Lori]

Of course Lee thinks he is the smarter of his family members but he does regret the childhood he missed being sent to the east coast. That part was sad to read in Lee’s story - was he watching Joe Ben’s kids and thinking about what he could have had if he had grown up here?
But Lee wants so much to get back at Hank for his mother. So using Viv is modus operendi.

[Kathleen]

Lori wrote: "Terry and Cynda, the high school fight story- you’ll see why it is told in the next pages. I’m realizing the Kesey sets up the stories from the past to make connections to future events. They are b..."

I love the question you ask in your spoiler, Lori--(view spoiler)[what was Hank trying to teach Lee (hide spoiler)]. I think it's a major question of the novel maybe. I keep mulling it over in my head, and hope we can touch on it more when we're all done.

[Lori]

I think I may have gotten slightly ahead of where you guys are in my spoiler. I’ll make an edit so not to confuse. Sorry.

[Lori]

Kathleen wrote: "Lori wrote: "Terry and Cynda, the high school fight story- you’ll see why it is told in the next pages. I’m realizing the Kesey sets up the stories from the past to make connections to future event..."

Yes!! I agree Kathleen. It needs to be fleshed out.

I’m spending my day in Oregon today. I’m at page 382 and getting the background on Evenwrite and the handling of the strike.