Sometimes a Great Notion

[Sara, Old School Classics]

This thread is for the June 2022 buddy read of Sometimes a Great Notion. Join us!

[Terry]

I am starting this just a tad early, but i may to tandem read this and some others in mud June if i am not finished by then.

[Terry]

Here is some backstory on the invented area of the Oregon coast:

https://www.wweek.com/outdoors/2017/0...

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Nice article, Terry. I don't want to think of Paul Newman as a drunk, however, I will just keep on thinking of him as making the organic fig cookies.

I will try to start this next week. I saw the movie, but can only remember one scene, which came back to me while reading the article. Looking forward to the book.

[Kathleen]

Oh my--thank you for that article, Terry! I used to live in Oregon, and haven't travelled the coast much, but have been to Depot Bay that's highlighted here. A long time ago, but I thought it was beautiful. The most lush, gorgeous greenery right on the cliffs above the ocean. Didn't know part of One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest was filmed there. This gets us in the mood!

I'm having trouble with my library book, which I was supposed to be next in line for but now find myself in third spot. I'm going to try to get it another way, and if all goes well, will start next week too.

[Lori]

I’m thinking of joining in. I just got a copy from thrift books and really think this sounds like something I would enjoy. Plus buddy reads are such fun!

[Terry]

I also got my copy from Thrift Books. I am a regular customer!

[Terry]

Lori and Kathleen, please, please join us!

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Yes! Kathleen and Lori please do join.

[Terry]

When my daughter was about nine (mid 1990s) we took a road trip down the Oregon coast south from Portland on Hwy 101 in December. I think we spent two nights on the Oregon shore. I can’t remember the first place we stayed. After we passed through Coos Bay (where my grandmother’s twin lived for many years, and where her mother died), we spent a night in Gold Beach. My impression was that the Oregon coast is wild and wildly beautiful. Here is a picture of Gold Beach.

https://advancelocal-adapter-image-up...

We got to my brother’s house for Christmas, near Eureka, CA, and one morning about 5 AM there was a 5.5 earthquake — a classic CA experience! My brother lives near the Eel River. This is off topic, but i found this video interesting and it gives you a picture of how beautiful this part of CA is.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xzjZ486...




From there we headed south on 101 through the redwoods and ended up in Sausalito for New Years Eve. It was a great trip!

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Sounds like a beautiful memory, Terry. The photos are gorgeous. How lovely to have ties in both these places. I love knowing there are such wild areas still left. Sometimes it feels like the whole world has been transformed into concrete.

[Kathleen]

I love the sound of that trip, Terry! And I had the same impression of the Oregon coast.

I have fond memories of the Eel River--we used to go to the Redwoods for vacations when I was a kid. One of my favorite places in the whole world is in those Redwood groves. Lovely video!

I may be a little late getting my copy, but I'll join this read, by hook or by crook! Lori too I hope. :-)

[Terry]

From the Washington Independent Review of Books: “This is a challenging work to read. It’s long. It rambles. The point of view shifts constantly (as many as four times in as many lines) and with little warning. “

My initial impression is that this above statement is right on. It is hard to keep track of as the narrative proceeds. I wondered what others thought of this so i googled “Kesey point of view notion” and landed on that quote.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

I'm really just a few pages in, but I can see this is not going to be straightforward. It is hard to get a grasp of what is going on, since everything is referred to but not explained. I'm sure it will come together later. I read One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and I think Kesey is a very deft writer and knows how to pull the loose ends together at just the right time. We will see.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Terry, I get exactly what the quote was saying. He jumps from one person to another in a kind of stream of consciousness that literally changes your pov from one sentence to the next. Also, he leaps time frames from present to past and back again, so that you are sometimes in the present, sometimes in the past and sometimes in a memory of the past. Really takes some serious concentration to follow. But, he gets right into the nitty-gritty of the relationships, and I like that.

[Terry]

Sara, yes, the time frame changes also make this hard to grasp!

[Kathleen]

Never say never. I usually avoid audio books, especially for long reads like this. But the library book I was waiting for has been lost or something, so broke down and checked out the audio. What fun!

I took to heart what you've said about the leaps, and thought I'd take the approach that I'll eventually get the print book and figure it all out, and for now just enjoy the reading. But I think listening is helping me follow all of these changes a little better.

I've read through chapter 3, and will put it aside for a bit. The description of the country is spot on! "There's something ... about about the clouds grinding against the mountains and the trees sticking out of the ground ..." Ha! I enjoyed the westward expansion mindset too.

[Terry]

I can see how audio might make some of it easier if there are different voices for the characters.

My printed version does not have numbered chapters. I am 11 or 12 percent into the book.

[Kathleen]

Terry wrote: "I can see how audio might make some of it easier if there are different voices for the characters.

My printed version does not have numbered chapters. I am 11 or 12 percent into the book."

Oh, that's so interesting about the chapters. I wondered, because as I was listening, it didn't feel like a chapter break at all, but was marked as one. Maybe it was something added for the audio.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

I can also see how listening might help with voice changes. No chapters in mine either. But, already interested in knowing more about these people, especially Hank.

[Terry]

It may be silly but I prefer books with chapters. There is a major break, though, at page 112 (extra blank page).

[Lori]

I’m hoping to start soon. Finishing up Elkhorn Tavern tomorrow so….. audio and I aren’t friends but I’ll keep it in mind as I begin and see how I wade through the leaping around.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Me too, Terry. Glad to know there is a major break. I thought there might be sectional divisions, but not far enough along to find one yet.

[Terry]

Sara, thumbing through my copy, I see another break at page 226 and one at 450. perhaps there are others, but I didn’t see them.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

That is good. My copy is digital, so harder to leaf through. I have been breaking by spousal edict so far :o)

[Terry]

LOL! There do seem to be small breaks here and there.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Kesey is an intelligent writer, with literary references sprinkled throughout, Dickens and Wolfe and Shakespeare, but cleverly done so that they integrate into the internal dialogue of the characters. It has a fast pace, which is good being such a long work.

[Tom]

Visiting Oregon coast in early June so really enjoying. Started on Kindle but realized this prose is just so good I think I need to touch, feel, smell it. So bought a used paper copy. Way better.

I'm a few hundred pages in already but it is not a fast read at all. I have actually re-read entire paragraphs or pages, not because I needed to but because I WANTED to! So far I'm absolutely loving the style I'm calling Manic Steinbeck or Kerouac Steinbeck. :-) I don't recall Cuckoo's Nest being this "stylistic" so very pleasantly surprised.

I'm am a little worried about the old hound dog, Molly...

[Sara, Old School Classics]

I am also captivated by his prose and I like calling it "Manic Steinbeck", Tom. You are way ahead of me, but I am pacing myself so I won't be too far ahead of others. Haven't met Molly yet.

[Kathleen]

Manic Steinbeck! This sounds perfect, Tom. It really is Steinbeck-like in ways I can't quite articulate, but already feel only 50 pages or so in.

And I agree with Sara the pace is fast. If I had the reading time, I can imagine getting through this long book pretty fast. But it does cry out to be savored, doesn't it.

[Lori]

I took Kathleen’s advice and wondered how the audio would help with keeping things straight. I had only gotten 20 pages in and started the audio last night. I’m following along with the printed words and I have to say I’m enjoying it even more.

[Terry]

For those of you who are not very far into the book, this will make more sense as you progress

Here is a link to bobcats: https://nationalzoo.si.edu/animals/bo...

from Google: Bobcats are solitary, nocturnal and rarely seen. Three subspecies of bobcat live in Oregon, two of which live in central Oregon, one, which prefers the arid rimrock regions, and another that resides upon the eastern slope of the Cascade range and the open Pine forests of the high desert.

I have never seen a bobcat (lynx) in the wild. I have seen mountain lions (cougars), though. Once when I was a teen I saw one uphill on a trail across the Yuba River South Fork, Nevada County, CA.The other siting was more more surprising because it was at Alum Rock Park in San Jose, maybe 15 years ago, with a lot of people around. It was stalking a child from quite a distance and we let the parents know, and they high-tailed away their children’s picnic.

Just wondering —
Has anyone in this group seen a bobcat in the wild?

[Sara, Old School Classics]

I have, and in Georgia, so not out West. The mountains here had them in plenty when I was young but seeing them is unusual. It would be a bit scary to see one actually stalking a child! Like so many wild animals, their habitat is decreasing, which probably makes human contact more frequent. I saw mine right at dusk and had the timing changed just by minutes, I can imagine we would have been close to him and never known it.

[Terry]

I think sightings like these are really magical experiences, like watching a great blue heron fly and land close by. I’ve seen bald eagles here in Illinois, and condors in California, but of course the condors are attracted to the highways. To see wild creatures in their actual habitats is pretty amazing.

[Terry]

Despite my earlier posting, I am really enjoying the book. I am up to page 134, or a bit more than 18% into it. I am fascinated by some of the characters. Also, I completely agree with the comparisons to Steinbeck.

[Candi]

I started this today - a super hot sunny day in New York! I think it's incredible so far. Just what I needed in a book at the moment :) Epic and gripping! A friend of mine recently read Butcher's Crossing so it's fresh in my mind, and though the writing styles are completely different, I couldn't help but notice a similarity in a theme at least starting out.

I'm happy to be reading this with the group, but will likely fall behind rather quickly :D Life sure is hectic at the moment :)

[Terry]

Candi, I’m so glad you ate joining us for this one! It’s hot in Chicago, too, so I have been doing chores inside with air on full blast. And listening to music. Later I will comeback to the book.

[Kathleen]

Glad you've started, Lori and Candi! And awesome wildlife stories, Terry and Sara.

I'm about 14% in and really enjoying it. I find I have questions, and then if I wait long enough, they're answered. Right now I'm wondering who Cousin Orland is ...

[Terry]

“All the Pretty Little Horses” (p. 150) is a song that I learned from Peter, Paul and Mary (1963 In the Wind album). It is a song that I sang to my daughter by and my granddaughter when they were babies, hoping to get them to sleep.

[Kathleen]

Terry wrote: "“All the Pretty Little Horses” (p. 150) is a song that I learned from Peter, Paul and Mary (1963 In the Wind album). It is a song that I sang to my daughter by and my granddaughter when they were b..."

Oh Terry--I'm looking forward to that part! That album was iconic in my family. I grew up with it, and still have every song memorized I think. "Birds and the butterflies flutter round his eyes ..." You're daughter and granddaughter are lucky girls.

[Terry]

Here is a picture of fly agaric (Amanita muscaria). They are mentioned on page 157.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...

I didn’t even know they were mushrooms.

[Terry]

Thanks, Kathleen. I think i memorized that entire album, too!

[Terry]

“…a bookcase made of bricks and planks...” — could anything be more iconic of the times?

[Terry]

According to Google, the actual watermelon capital of the world is Cordele, Georgia. However, Rocky Ford, Colorado, is “Home of the World’s Best Melons.”

https://cityofrockyford.colorado.gov/...

[Sara, Old School Classics]

Our music was so sweet and I had one of those bookcases in my first apartment and a coffee table that was a huge wire spool.

[Tom]

There's some humor between all the 'Oregon-Coast-of-Eden' fratricidal vengeance stuff. Seems intentional to keep the mood from being just uniformly somber and dark for 600p. What scenes did you guys find funny?

The explosion at Lee's college rooming house had me cracking up. And then the first thing Lee sees when he arrives home is a fracas with Old Henry chasing the union rep into the river while using a loaded shotgun as crutch and then throwing lit dynamite at him as he frantically escapes in a skiff! Oh man, LOL.

[Kathleen]

Oh, there is tons of humor! I find lots of stuff around Lee funny. I think my favorite was on the bus ride, when he turns to the guy sitting next to him, “An unshaven sack of odors that I hadn’t noticed before.” (I've taken plenty of bus rides and could really relate to this!) And then later, about the "sack," “his stubble split in a grin.” What an image!

I agree, Tom--the dark humor is a nice balance with the dark pathos.

[Terry]

Yes, there are lots of sentences that bring a smile, if not being laughs. Not exactly funny, but the very quick glimpse of someone falling outside Lee’s window struck me as being highly cinematic.

[Sara, Old School Classics]

I agree with both the humor and the cinematic nature of some of the passages. I laughed at Lee's musings about his father and Hank, but the humor is, as said, dark.

[Lori]

I have also laughed at Lee’s musings and the way he informed his roommate about the state of their apartment before getting on the train west. I was actually pleased that Lee’s story hasn’t been interrupted but I’m getting the hang of this manic prose slowly.

This is one of the most complex stories I’ve read this year. I have tried with no luck to find a Stamper family tree somewhere because I love visuals to keep track of everyone. I’m hoping to get much further in the next few days. I’m right at pg 73 so about 11%.