a probably premature discussion of what the next group challenge should be

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

Over in another thread, we were talking about what we were going to read for the next challenge starting, probably October, 1, which is after Vorkosigan is supposed to have wrapped.

There was discussion when we picked Vorkisigan that we all also wanted to read McDevitt's series. There are two series, and they both have nominated books in the middle of them.

Another suggestion was Gene Wolfe.

THERE IS NO HURRY to chose. We are still over 3 months away, at least, from finishing Vorkosigan. But because we were discussion this in another thread, I thought I should dedicate a thread for it.

Ready . . . set . . . GO!

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

I'm more interested in McDevitt because what I've read by Wolfe was a bit too complicated for my taste. However, for McDevitt I've read both high praise and harsh criticism, so we'll see

[Cordelia]

I would be more interested in Gene Wolfe. I haven't read anything of his. But I've read quite a bit of McDevitt,

But happy to go either way.

[Kristenelle]

McDevitt looks more interesting to me, but I’m not sure I can commit to a challenge. So my opinion doesn’t matter much. Would the challenge be to read both series or would you pick one?

[Art, Stay home, stay safe.]

There may be those who aren't interested in either. In the upcoming three months we can determine the length of a new challenge series we want to read (those range from 11k to 700 pages). And then nominate our preferred series or miniseries.

Here is a complete list of our unread series and miniseries:

2000pg and up
1800 - 1500pg
1400 - 1200pg
1200 - 1000pg
1000 - 700pg

I'll make a poll so everyone can vote on the preferred page count.

[Art, Stay home, stay safe.]

I wouldn't mind going for some fantasy around the end of the year.

[Cynthia]

I don't usually read any challenges. That said, I will not read anything by Jack McDevitt. His over the top, relentlessly sexist treatment of female characters in Moonfall was quite enough for me. Thank you.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

This is what I've meant about divisive views about McDevitt

[Joe]

Neither of those makes me super excited, but I'd probably try either. I've read some Gene Wolfe in the past, he's not bad.

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

Cynthia wrote: "I don't usually read any challenges. That said, I will not read anything by Jack McDevitt. His over the top, relentlessly sexist treatment of female characters in Moonfall was quite enough for me. ..."

Interesting that this group's members have such differing opinions of him. I have read none of his, so I cannot say whether he seems sexist.

However, last summer, I was in a group where members read The Moon is a Harsh Mistress and hated it because of the way they felt women were misrepresented. Yes, there are two comments in that book that have always bugged me, but otherwise, I thought women were treated well in that book--they "call the tune" that the men dance to, according to the author, Robert A. Heinlein.

Cynthia, is Moonfall in one of the series? Or is it a standalone?

I may read them anyway. I have committed to reading, or at least trying, all the H/N nominees and winners.

[Cynthia]

Moonfall is a stand-alone novel.
Although McDevitt casts women in many high-level powerful positions in the society, his descriptions of them every time the protagonist encounters them are all about their looks and their level of sexual attractiveness to him. I found it very off-putting. I believe writing like that reveals the author's true beliefs about the place of women in the world. I don't want to spend any more time hanging out with Jack McDevitt.

[Plamen]

Kateblue wrote: "Cynthia wrote: "I don't usually read any challenges. That said, I will not read anything by Jack McDevitt. His over the top, relentlessly sexist treatment of female characters in Moonfall was quite..."

I do not find him sexist at all, but he is very repetitive. And his world-building is extremely lazy. Fyi, Moonfall is one of his worst books, if not the worst, I remember being irritated by practically everything there.

I don't know if he is suitable for a reading challenge - he has a couple of good books, but once you pick up speed, you feel almost as if he is using the same template for every book.

[Gabi]

Art wrote: "I wouldn't mind going for some fantasy around the end of the year."

I've just seen that The Quest of the Riddlemaster by Patricia A. McKillip is on the list. It's Fantasy and it is not that long ( … and I own it and wanted to read it for ages … ;D)

[Art, Stay home, stay safe.]

Nice Gabi, I am interested in that, The Once and Future King and maybe Grimnoir Chronicles.

[Antti]

Plamen wrote: "once you pick up speed, you feel almost as if he is using the same template for every book"

I've read most of the Alex Benedict books and can confirm. I used to read them one or two books per year, and that way I never got bored with them, but I can imagine reading them all in a row could be bit of a drag.

[Cordelia]

I didn't find McDevitt sexist. I've read most of "The Academy" series, and liked them a lot. But haven't read any of "Alex Benedict" series. Be happy to give that a go.

[Kristenelle]

Cynthia wrote: "Moonfall is a stand-alone novel.
Although McDevitt casts women in many high-level powerful positions in the society, his descriptions of them every time the protagonist encounters them are all abou..."

Ugh, that's unfortunate. I'm out too then. "Hominids" by Robert J. Sawyer was like that and it ruined the book for me.

[Cynthia]

And Hominids had the added distasteful aspect of a male author trying to write in a woman's voice about a rape and post-rape recovery and totally missing the boat on that. I did like the imagined alternate Neanderthal society, though.

[Plamen]

Scott wrote: "Plamen wrote: "I don't know if he is suitable for a reading challenge - he has a couple of good books, but once you pick up speed, you feel almost as if he is using the same template for every book..."

I do agree, I liked Seeker, The Devil's Eye, Deepsix and Omega, so pretty much all of out of order, but I never managed to finish anything published after 2010. He has some good stuff - and also some that is really terrible.

[Allan]

Maybe since it’s a short period to the beginning of the year, something like The Once and Future King (with two Retros) would be better. Remember we have the holidays; some do better on vacation, others have a hard time with page count. Start a bigger challenge at the start of the year.

One series I’m curious about are the Gannon books. I know nothing about them and my library doesn’t have them. Anyone?

[Cordelia]

Allan wrote: "Maybe since it’s a short period to the beginning of the year, something like The Once and Future King (with two Retros) would be better. Remember we have the holidays; some do better on vacation, o..."

Yes. I would be interested in the Gannon series too. They might be a bit tricky to get hold of though - my library doesn't have them either.

But I notice that Audible has the series.

[Antti]

Note that Gannon's Caine series is nowadays five books long, with almost 3000 pages.

[Art, Stay home, stay safe.]

Antti wrote: "Note that Gannon's Caine series is nowadays five books long, with almost 3000 pages."

We're mostly concerned with these titles:

Tales of the Terran Republic by Charles E. Gannon Total pages: 1,684pg

Fire with Fire - 496pg NNBN
Trial by Fire - 640pg NNBN
Raising Caine - 548pg NNBN

[Allan]

The Caine is probably too long for the period in question, but I was just curious about it. I’m cheap, I don’t like buying books anymore if I can help it.

[Joe]

If you guys are looking for something new, how about Murderbot? Fantastic books, and quick to read (4 novellas and one full length novel).

I probably wouldn't read them again, since I just read them, but I'd love to see what you guys think of them!

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

re: Caine - I've read the first three and they are linked so for the series we need all five. Also for me the series quickly went down in quality, with a solid first volume

[Kalin]

Joe wrote: "If you guys are looking for something new, how about Murderbot? Fantastic books, and quick to read (4 novellas and one full length novel).

I probably wouldn't read them again, since I just read th..."

I've asked about novellas before but this group is almost entirely focused on novels, for organized reading.

Also, I think most of us HAVE read them -- they are awesome, so you could always start a Murderbot conversation thread somewhere here.

[Eva]

I'd love to read McDevitt, Gannon or Wolfe, all of them are on my "I'm excited" TBR pile. :-)

I'd also be interested in the Uplift Saga by David Brin, or The Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan/Brandon Sanderson.

[Eva]

Allan wrote: "The Caine is probably too long for the period in question, but I was just curious about it. I’m cheap, I don’t like buying books anymore if I can help it."

There is no time limit, we don't have to be done in 2020 as far as I know, right?

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Kalin wrote: "I've asked about novellas before but this group is almost entirely focused on novels, for organized reading."

This is true because with our reading speed it will take over 10 year to reach even 50% mark in novels. However any member can ask for starting buddy reads of any H/N work. Moreover, you are welcomed to do so

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

Eva wrote: "I'd love to read McDevitt, Gannon or Wolfe, all of them are on my "I'm excited" TBR pile. :-)

I'd also be interested in the Uplift Saga by David Brin, or The Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan..."

the one ones of these I am not interested in is The Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan, having tried it and stopped at about the 4th book. I remember very little about it, but it's a quest that goes on forever. You know, Lord of the Rings in 14 volumes. (I thought Lord of the Rings too long in places even though it is dear to my heart.)

I am most interested in the McDevitt books. I am not sure which series to start with, or even if they are related in any way. Z, you know about McDevitt books. What do you think?

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Kateblue wrote: "Z, you know about McDevitt books. What do you think?"

I haven't read him yet, I guess it was Allan

[Art, Stay home, stay safe.]

The next challenge will be the completionist challenge for the "New Crobuzon" series.

New Crobuzon by China Miéville Total pages: 1,777

Perdido Street Station - 623pg HNBN NNBN
The Scar - 578pg HNBN
Iron Council - 576pg HNBN

Probably until the end of January.

I like all the options you guys are discussing, I'm up for any of those

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

Oleksandr wrote: "Kateblue wrote: "Z, you know about McDevitt books. What do you think?"

I haven't read him yet, I guess it was Allan"

sorry! Allan??????

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

OK, who wants to buddy read mcDevitt books with me next year? Any takers???

Thanks.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Kateblue wrote: "OK, who wants to buddy read mcDevitt books with me next year? Any takers???"

me

[Eva]

Me too

[Art, Stay home, stay safe.]

Kateblue wrote: "OK, who wants to buddy read mcDevitt books with me next year? Any takers???

Thanks."

Why buddy read if we can make it our challenge?

[Allan]

I like the idea and would do it as a challenge for early 2021. Pick either series, the Academy or Alex Benedict; each is 8 books, built around a recurring character. I’ve read 2 of the Academy series and 3 of the Benedict series. I think I’d recommend the Academy as the first 2 books are gangbusters. If not, I’d jump into a buddy read.

[Joe]

Eva wrote: "I'd love to read McDevitt, Gannon or Wolfe, all of them are on my "I'm excited" TBR pile. :-)

I'd also be interested in the Uplift Saga by David Brin, or The Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan..."

I read David Brin WAY back in the days of the sci-fi book club (I swear I signed up for that like 5 different times).. that would be a fun one to review.

I never did read the Sanderson ending to Wheel of Time.. Robert Jordan's was too disappointing for me.

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

Allan wrote: "I like the idea and would do it as a challenge for early 2021. Pick either series, the Academy or Alex Benedict; each is 8 books, built around a recurring character. I’ve read 2 of the Academy seri..."

I'm now going to be reading the Academy series over in SciFi and fantasy book club. Starting October. Here's the thread.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

So if we are doing one here, I vote Alex Benedict

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Kateblue wrote: "I'm now going to be reading the Academy series over in SciFi and fantasy book club. Starting October. Here's the thread."

I thought reading it here as well, we may even get a few new members from that group, esp. bearing in mind that quite a few are already here ;)

So I vote for Academy series challenge starting October

[Allan]

The Academy series makes sense. If we're overlapping with the other group, then it gives us time to finish New Crobuzon as well. I'm not in the other group, but two series is enough for me.

As for The Wheel of Time, that would have to be year-long challenge, and I'm betting not many would want to take that on. There are probably many who want to read it, but not willing to commit to a group schedule. In my view, it's one you have to take at your own pace.

[Eva]

I'm happy to participate - the other group is currently only planning on reading the first Academy book, so it would be great if we just did it here (or for the first book in parallel in both groups) and committed to the whole series (starting in October).

[Allan]

IMHO, the first Alex Benedict book is weaker than the others, although it supplies a piece of set-up fo the future. Hopefully that wouldn’t turn anyone off, as it definitely gets better. There are multiple nominations for both series. The first Academy book, The Engines of God, was dynamite and really got me enthused about reading more.

[Kalin]

Allan wrote: "As for The Wheel of Time, that would have to be year-long challenge, and I'm betting not many would want to take that on. There are probably many who want to read it, but not willing to commit to a group schedule. In my view, it's one you have to take at your own pace."

It does have an adaptation in the works from Amazon, so that could be an encouragement to start a challenge. I've read the whole series and if there's anything I'd reread in this life, this one would be close to the top of the list.

[Allan]

Yeah, me too. I think a lot of people have the desire to read it, but it’s definitely a commitment! 14 books of 800 pages or so is pretty daunting! I loved it and had no difficulty following the characters and their stories, even when I took a break after the 12 Jordan books. I thought Sanderson did a fantastic job finishing it, it was totally seamless.

[Kristenelle]

I have a “want to/don’t want to” desire to read wheel of time. I’ve heard it is good and a classic and the Amazon show is an enticement, but I’ve also heard mixed messages about the level of sexism. Anyone want to speak to that? How bad is it? I think my husband told me he read it a long time ago and one of the books was literally just a woman taking a bath?

[Allan]

I read it probably a decade ago and it took me over a year to read, so I don’t remember a bath scene. I hope I’m not being ignorant here, but does a single, non-prurient bath scene make a 10,000 page saga sexist? I don’t know - when you look at the big picture, there are several good, strong female characters that play very key roles in the story. They are not peripheral or there simply for male gratification. Their initial roles start off typical of fantasy set in medieval-like time frames, but that’s common in many fantasy books.

[Kristenelle]

No, no, not one scene. He said the entire book was one bath scene. I don’t even know how that is possible and maybe I’m misremembering. We talked about it a long time ago.