what sf sub-genre do you avoid like the plague?

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*]

Joseph wrote: "The genre I avoid at all costs is "poorly written." It seems to be a meta-genre, though, more than a sub-genre of any particular genre. Lots of other genres seem to have "poorly written" as a class."

lol

I hate that one, too.

[Hank]

MrsJoseph *grouchy* wrote: "I'm almost scared to ask but what is "scatterpunk?"

I was going to ask that same question except what is "splatterpunk" :)

I was picturing kind of a tank girl meets Mark Lawrence type of book.

But yours could be fun too. Maybe a bunch of augmented teens, all lost in a desert, trying to find their way back to the net?

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*]

lol

it's early and I'm still short cooffe and I'm running the entire office by myself.

It's gonna be a long day.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*]

and I'm hungry

[Anat]

Vampires, Zombies, werewolves. Used to love vampire stories (Anne Rice) but it became so overdone, I grew sick of it.
I also dislike fairy tales retelling for the most part and alt history.

[Jordan]

Avoid if it's not been recc'd by someone I trust:
Steampunk: Too much of it I read was just about the style and not about the tech.
SFF Romance: I like good romance. Most SFF romance seems to be neither good romance nor good sci-fi though.
Grimdark: Yeah, I just. Too much of this veers into more of a for the shock value gratuitous violence rather than the gritty and realistic I think it wants to pretend it is.
Noir style: Mostly I find this in the UF books. I just really don't like this style.
Propaganda books: Okay, not really a sub-genre. The kind of book where the characters are just mouthpieces and every other page the author has to remind you of their point.

Conversely, I mostly always read:
Space Opera
Slice of Life style SFF
Generation ships
Military SF
AI/Robots/Cyborgs
Exploratory missions

[Beth]

I haven't been consciously avoiding grimdark, but also haven't read a whole book that fell into that basket, that I know of. For some reason, I'm not drawn to the idea of a conscientiously misanthropic and/or gory book, never mind my admittedly secondhand impression of how these stories tend to treat women.

[Najaf]

Jordan wrote: "
Conversely, I mostly always read:

Slice of Life style SF:..."

becky chambers' series would come under this category, right? can you recommend some more?

[Jordan]

Najaf wrote: "Jordan wrote: "
Conversely, I mostly always read:

Slice of Life style SF:..."

becky chambers' series would come under this category, right? can you recommend some more?"
Yes, Becky Chambers is number one in this in my mind. Most of the others I can think of off the top of my head are manga series like Saturn Apartments, Vol. 1 and Girls' Last Tour, Vol. 1. I know I've read other novels that I would put under this category that are escaping my poor memory. Both Way Station. and Children of Time also remind me of the slice of life style story, at least in parts.

[YouKneeK]

For the most part, I’ll read any SF&F subgenre. I like to blindly choose books off our group shelf, so I don’t always know what subgenre a book is until I start reading it. However, while there are always exceptions, certain subgenres do have a typical style or typical tropes that I’m less like to enjoy.

Since it looks like the topic got expanded to include Fantasy, and then went off on a Romance tangent, I’ll have one section for each and you all can pretend I made three overly-long posts instead of one beyond-ridiculously-ginormous post. :)

Potential Science Fiction Plagues
Monster Books. They’re often tedious and repetitive. You follow a group of characters who are running running running for their lives from whatever horrible mutated or alien thing is after them, then they find a brief haven of safety so that they can eat and rest enough for their continued existence to be believable, then they get caught and they’re running running running for their lives again. Also, these books often end with some equivalent of “but is it really over?” which I’m not crazy for.

Cyberpunk. I kind of feel like this is a subgenre I should like better, but it’s the one I’ve had the least success with. I’ve read some that I’ve liked, but they were also the least “cyberpunky” of the cyberpunk books I read.

I don’t dislike post-apocalyptic, but sometimes I unintentionally read a bunch of them and get sick of them. We seem to have a lot of them on our group shelf! There’s a lot of variety in how the stories are told and what the settings are though, so I usually enjoy them as long as I can space them out better. I think of Monster Books as a sub-subgenre of this, and those are the ones I’m most likely to dislike.

I was surprised to see Steampunk mentioned so often in this thread. I’m not surprised there are people who don’t like it, just at how often it was mentioned. I haven’t read much of it myself, but I unintentionally ran into it several times this year and my experiences were mostly positive. To me it seems like the main danger is that the technology isn’t always terribly believable, but I thought most of the stories I read were fun as long as everything stayed internally consistent.

Potential Fantasy Plagues
The fantasy equivalent of Monster Books, if the monsters lack intelligence, personality, and/or understandable motivations. I haven’t read as many of these in fantasy, though.

I’m less likely to enjoy stories based on real-world myths, especially if I can tell I’m not understanding all the nuances due to my lack of mythology knowledge. I guess this is true for any book that heavily relies on outside knowledge I don't have to be properly understood, but it comes up most often for me with real-world mythology. It depends on how it’s written, though. If I feel like the author is giving me the necessary background and I’m actually learning something without having to go give myself a crash course on a subject I’m not terribly interested in, then I’m more likely to enjoy it.

I’m a little iffy on Urban Fantasy, but I haven’t read enough of it to make any real judgments, and I can definitely point to some that I’ve liked. It’s just that UF authors seem more likely to take the kitchen sink approach to world-building and I find that annoying. Come to think of it, I think that’s a large part of what I dislike about Cyberpunk.

Confirmed Plague: Romance in SF&F
As others have said, most authors, regardless of the genre, seem to feel the need to insert some sort of romance (or “lustance”) in their stories. I don’t usually like this, but my tolerance will vary based on how much page time it gets, how many annoying tropes it has, and whether the author has the slightest skill at writing a believable romance.

If it’s just that the main character has a significant other that they occasionally think about and have a scene or two with while they otherwise go about their busy heroic life and focus on important things, that doesn’t bother me. On the flip side, while it’s increasingly rare, sometimes an author will write a romance so well that even I get invested in it. In those rare cases, I don’t mind as much if it takes up a larger portion of the story. I tend to get invested in friendships more easily than romances, so the type of romance that is more likely to get me is the one that starts as a friendship and the hints of romance come along later and slowly.

I’m most likely to get angry about a romance sublot if it consists of one or more of these things:
* One or both characters obsessing over each other unendingly. Especially since, in a SF&F book at least, there are usually supposed to be more important things going on!

* Insta-love. It annoys me, but I can overlook it if it doesn’t get a lot of page time. If the insta-love means that the characters will skip the obsessing stage and go straight into a low-drama relationship that the reader doesn’t have to read much about, then bring on the insta-love.

* The Big Misunderstanding. Especially if the misunderstanding is perpetuated because the misunderstood party won’t even try to explain, or because the misunderstander won’t listen to explanations. I get really, really annoyed if I think hundreds of pages of idiocy could have been eliminated by a two-minute conversation or by somebody just shouting out a couple of clarifying words.

* Along the lines of The Big Misunderstanding, I hate when the characters keep assuming the worst about each other’s intentions and get really, really angry and hurt for no logical reason. And we’re supposed to believe these people actually love each other. Maybe they do, but it’s not a relationship I have any interest in reading about.

[Jain]

Splatterpunk is very graphically violent, often gory horror. It also gets called "hardcore horror" or "extreme horror". As a squeamish and easily frightened horror reader, I steer clear.

[Becky]

YouKneeK wrote: "Cyberpunk. I kind of feel like this is a subgenre I should like better, but it’s the one I’ve had the least success with. I’ve read some that I’ve liked, but they were also the least “cyberpunky” of the cyberpunk books I read."

and

"* The Big Misunderstanding. Especially if the misunderstanding is perpetuated because the misunderstood party won’t even try to explain, or because the misunderstander won’t listen to explanations. I get really, really annoyed if I think hundreds of pages of idiocy could have been eliminated by a two-minute conversation or by somebody just shouting out a couple of clarifying words."

YES to both of these (especially the last). I don't think I've read much cyberpunk, but the ones that I can definitely quantify as such have missed the mark for me.

And I hate hate hate plotlines that are predicated on misunderstandings and failures to communicate. To Reign in Hell by Steven Brust is one of the most memorable that drove me absolutely crazy due to that.

[Monica]

YouKneeK wrote: "For the most part, I’ll read any SF&F subgenre. I like to blindly choose books off our group shelf, so I don’t always know what subgenre a book is until I start reading it. However, while there are..."

Your post made me laugh because I have rolled my eyes many a times at the points you made.

Just the other day I quit reading a book in a series that I was enjoying because the whole book was based upon misunderstandings and a failure to communicate.

Plus the whole love after meeting a person for two seconds or spending a day or two with them does have me saying...what just happened.

[Monica]

I know people love time travel, but sometimes it makes my mind hurt about the alternative timelines or how a person going back in time has already affected the future if the author is going to continue having them on the same timeline.

Also another thing that throws me and it's not necessarily a sub genre, but could happen with any books (although typically happens in sci-fi...don't get me wrong...not all sci-fi) is the author creating a world that is a little bit too hard to grasp and wrap a person's head around. For this I mean they use language and references that leaves the reader feeling like the english language was not used in the creation of the novel. I do understand that authors do that to create their own world, but for me that world is hard to get into.

[CBRetriever]

Beth wrote: "I haven't been consciously avoiding grimdark, but also haven't read a whole book that fell into that basket.For some reason, I'm not drawn to the idea of a conscientiously misanthropic and/or gory book, never mind my admittedly secondhand impression of how these stories tend to treat women"

They're not all misanthropic (hating humankind), but they do tend to treat any kind of battles/fights realistically. More like the modern movies/TV shows where when someone is shot, there is blood and pain unlike the 50-60 shows/movies where someone is hit by a bullet and falls down dead with not blood.

Actually most of them set in primitive/medieval type societies tend to be more realistic over all even t the politics, scheming, plots, etc. Often there's no happily ever after (see Game of Thrones' TV ending)

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*]

YouKneeK wrote: "* The Big Misunderstanding. Especially if the misunderstanding is perpetuated because the misunderstood party won’t even try to explain, or because the misunderstander won’t listen to explanations. I get really, really annoyed if I think hundreds of pages of idiocy could have been eliminated by a two-minute conversation or by somebody just shouting out a couple of clarifying words."

Woooo. This one is a heavy one. It's far from my favorite as well...but the Big Mis is a hallmark of Romance novels. Especially the HQNs my mom used to read when I was a kid. I am *hoping* that you reading books with a Big Mis means that you were reading Romance...because I'll be super upset to start finding them in non-Romance books. I've always hated when characters could solve it all if they just have one conversation.

[Trike]

Najaf wrote: "Jordan wrote: "
Conversely, I mostly always read:

Slice of Life style SF:..."

becky chambers' series would come under this category, right? can you recommend some more?"

Definitely A Calculated Life by Anne Charnock.

The Handmaid's Tale probably fits.

I think maybe Martians, Go Home would fit, but it’s been so long since I read it I can’t say for sure.

[Becky]

MrsJoseph *grouchy* wrote: " I am *hoping* that you reading books with a Big Mis means that you were reading Romance...because I'll be super upset to start finding them in non-Romance books. I've always hated when characters could solve it all if they just have one conversation."

The example that I gave wasn't at all related to romance.

And, honestly, even in romance, it would annoy me. If the point is that you love someone and want to be with them, then I'd hope that would include actually talking to them sometimes. O_o

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*]

Becky wrote: "MrsJoseph *grouchy* wrote: " I am *hoping* that you reading books with a Big Mis means that you were reading Romance...because I'll be super upset to start finding them in non-Romance books. I've a..."

I, uh, missed your post. :-(

But, I totally agree. It's why I hate it as a plot point and why I was hoping that it was a Romance vs something else. Because talking to people should be the first thing we do. Ugh.

I hate Big Mis's and I also hate the whole "I'm a rando unqualified person who joins the group and now I am part of the investigation team." That shit drives me BONKERS but it's oh, so popular. I like to call it "Clued-in taking help and advice from Clueless." That sort of shit is regular police procedural TV, however. :-(

[CBRetriever]

I call those the "I want to slap the hero/heroine upside the head figuratively, not physically) to knock some sense into then" moments. It happens in fantasy books a lot where the MC doesn't understand that the other MC wants to help/is on their side/is looking for the same thing even when there's no romance involved

[Najaf]

Trike wrote: "Najaf wrote: "Jordan wrote: "
Conversely, I mostly always read:

Slice of Life style SF:..."

becky chambers' series would come under this category, right? can you recommend some more?"

Definitely..."

A Calculated Life is on my ever growing to-read list. plot summary reads more like a action/adventure...? have you read it?

[Cheryl]

Ty Najaf. I find alt-history difficult to appreciate. I also like what we've been calling Slice of Life and appreciate the recommendations that we've seen here.

Interesting idea to put Becky Chambers and Children of Time in the same box. I mean, they're both in the box "books Cheryl loves and recommends to just about everybody" but I'm still thinking about what else they have in common. I almost 'get it' but it's ... interesting....

[Jordan]

Cheryl wrote: "Ty Najaf. I find alt-history difficult to appreciate. I also like what we've been calling Slice of Life and appreciate the recommendations that we've seen here.

Interesting idea to put Becky Chamb..."

Ha, yeah. Weird combo. Mostly I'm thinking about the spidery bits where the book is just kind of showing progression of the spider society. Those parts felt kind of slice of life to me.

[Najaf]

Jordan wrote: "Cheryl wrote: "the spidery bits where the book is just kind of showing progression of the spider society. Those parts felt kind of slice of life to me. ..."

yes, thats why i didnt object to cheryl putting those two books together.

but handmaids tale has a rather intense vibe to be classified as slice of life.

[YouKneeK]

Monica wrote: “I know people love time travel, but sometimes it makes my mind hurt about the alternative timelines or how a person going back in time has already affected the future if the author is going to continue having them on the same timeline."

I was recently reading a series that I was really enjoying, but the author revealed that a (view spoiler)[character had gone back in time and was himself responsible for causing the events that led him to go back in time and cause those events... (hide spoiler)]. After more stuff like that, I ended up abandoning the series. (That spoiler doesn't mention either the book or any character names, so it won't spoil anything if you haven't seen me talking about it by name in the "What are you reading" thread or in my reviews. I just didn't want to risk spoiling anybody in the off chance that they have a really good memory and/or pay an alarming amount of attention to my posts.)

I really don't expect great logic from time travel because it has too many potential problems, and sometimes I have fun with the stories anyway, especially if they’re nice and twisty, but I get annoyed if the author doesn’t at least try to make it make sense. :)


MrsJoseph *grouchy* wrote: "I am *hoping* that you reading books with a Big Mis means that you were reading Romance...because I'll be super upset to start finding them in non-Romance books. I've always hated when characters could solve it all if they just have one conversation.

I haven’t read very much actual Romance, as opposed to other genres with romance in it. I’ve read some, most of it in my teens, but even back then it wasn’t usually my first choice. It seems to me like it’s inevitable that tropes from Romance novels will show up in other genres if they’re going to have romance subplots.

I hate that right now the only example I can think of is Robin Hobb’s books, because I know I’ve seen it in several others and Hobb’s books are some of my favorites despite a few very annoying subplots. Her Elderlings series does have some subplots with a heavy dose of misunderstandings, both in romantic and non-romantic contexts. I dislike them in either context.

[Trike]

MrsJoseph *grouchy* wrote: "I hate Big Mis's and I also hate the whole "I'm a rando unqualified person who joins the group and now I am part of the investigation team." That shit drives me BONKERS but it's oh, so popular. I like to call it "Clued-in taking help and advice from Clueless." That sort of shit is regular police procedural TV, however. :-("

Yeah, it’s such a lazy way for a writer to include an Audience Stand-In Character who needs to have things explained to them. It’s super annoying and extra egregious when the character *should* know something about what they’re doing but act as if they just fell off the turnip truck... from Mars.

Tom Cruise’s character in the NASCAR movie Days of Thunder is this to a T. He’s supposed to be this hotshot racecar driver but he doesn’t know a damn thing about racing. They basically have to explain to him what a car is. Anyone who has watched a single broadcast of the Daytona 500 would have more knowledge. It’s ludicrous.

Much better is the approach as taken in Bookburners: The Complete Season 1, where Sal is a veteran cop and a good detective who is introduced to the world of supernatural goings-on when her brother gets wrapped up in demonic books. She encounters the Vatican team tasked with solving that issue. She’s a neophyte in this weird occult world, but her detective skills are valuable and her ability to kick ass due to both natural inclination and years on the police force allow her to be a valuable asset to the team.

[Trike]

Najaf wrote: "A Calculated Life is on my ever growing to-read list. plot summary reads more like a action/adventure...? have you read it?"

Yes, I liked it quite a lot, giving it 4 stars. It’s really stuck with me.

My non-spoiler review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Don]

any sub-genre with too much Mush... PDA's, talking about my "feelings" bedroom sports play by play, that kinda thing.