Diversity in All Forms! discussion
This topic is about
The Hate U Give
Monthly Group Reads
>
The Hate U Give by Angie Thomas (October 2017)
message 1:
by
Mariah Roze
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Aug 14, 2017 07:14AM
Mod
reply
|
flag
Yay! I already have a copy, so I'll see if I can keep from reading it until then :)
That book is amazing. Enjoy!
Can't wait to talk about it.
I agree. This was an amazing book. I haven't really had a chance to discuss it with anyone, so I look forward to that.
Mod
That is exactly how I feel! I look forward to this discussion :)
Good pick! I cant wait to discuss
I have this on hold at two libraries. Hopefully I will get it in time for this discussion.
It's October now, so we can start discussing! I just finished this book. It exceeded my expectations.
this book is absolutely great and puts an enjoying spotlight on the blm movement and the concern behind police brutalities against black people. as a white person i've learnt so much through THUG and i feel like i'm not alone. this is such an important topic and a story about it is very much welcomed. this is also a great reminder of a few notions like the fact that reverse racism isn't real... this is at the same time strong and delicate, eloquent and implicit, fun and weighty. everyone should read this work of art (and activism) ^.^
I absolutely adore this book. It is such a powerful and poignant read and highlights an experience I have no relation with, so found it really educational, too.Inspired by the Black Lives Matter movement, it acts as a running social commentary about everything wrong with our contemporary world. So, so powerful and I would recommend to everybody!
Dannii wrote: "I absolutely adore this book. It is such a powerful and poignant read and highlights an experience I have no relation with, so found it really educational, too.Inspired by the Black Lives Matter ..."
I totally agree with you, I have been recommending it so much! It is about actual events, situations like that are still happening and I think it is important to raise more awareness.
This book is so relevant. It's an honest look into situations that need attention. I didn't feel any hate coming through, but the struggles and love are evident. It moved me emotionally over and over. The Hate U Give is a must read for teens and adults. It highlights important issues without compounding the negativity and definitely inspires change and empathy.
Cordelianne wrote: "Dannii wrote: "I absolutely adore this book. It is such a powerful and poignant read and highlights an experience I have no relation with, so found it really educational, too.Inspired by the Blac..."
The characters and the writing are all amazing, but it is the actual story that makes this such a necessary read! Definitely so relatable - couldn't agree more.
Just out of curiosity, how long did it take you all to realize that the title was also an acronym for THUG?
It feels almost sacrilegious, I know, giving a book such as this only three stars. It’s an outlier rating for sure and certainly not indicative of the quality, writing or the message. It wasn’t even that it’s a YA novel because I went into it with an open mind and considered all of that. I don’t read YA novels as a rule but heard so many extraordinary things about this book that I couldn’t resist. Furthermore, I had read Ghost by Jason Reynolds right before it, another novel geared for the YA or middle grade reader and loved it, adored it, still singing its praises. So it wasn’t that.The Hate U Give was just ok to me. Eeeek, I said it. It has a wonderful message, well written, important and certainly relevant. All of that is certainly true and I would definitely recommend it. But who would I recommend it to? I think it’s a book that I would recommend to those who frequently harbor racist thoughts to people like young Khalil, or Eric Garner, Trayvon Martin and the many many other men and women of color who are murdered unjustifiably for a myriad of asinine and questionable reasons. Others should read it as well but for different reasons.
So, again, I certainly enjoyed it and think it’s important, relevant and all of that but was just ok for me. I’m not exactly sure what exactly could’ve been improved to make it better for me. Maybe because it just felt too much like a YA novel, I don’t know.
All of that being said, I’m glad she wrote it, that many people love it and continue to enjoy it.
Raymond wrote: "Just out of curiosity, how long did it take you all to realize that the title was also an acronym for THUG?"I did not know what it meant until the author explained it in the book. I could tell the author is a die hard tupac fan
I just got this book and started reading it. I don't know what I think of it yet but I have to applaud the author for talking about a group that is rarely written about. It should give those of us enjoying our white middle class privilege some insight. I'll say more after I've finished it.
Raymond wrote: "Just out of curiosity, how long did it take you all to realize that the title was also an acronym for THUG?"huh, and they did mention the tupac saying. when it was mentioned i thought about it but i guess it didn't stick cuz i am once again pleasantly surprised.
What really got me was how much i related to the character.living in 2 worlds- black and white, lower middle class and upper middle class/kinda rich, city and suburbia- the 2 Starr's.
anybody else?
Mod
living in 2 worlds- black and white, lower middle class and upper middle class/kinda rich, city and suburbia- the 2 Starr's.
anybody else?"
I actually felt the connection and was able to relate with the boyfriend. Since I am white and in college I was in a historically black sorority (still am-just an alumnae now) and I was brought into another culture and cultural issues that I don't face. It was interesting reading this book and having that connection with the boyfriend.
Kay Dee wrote: "What really got me was how much i related to the character.living in 2 worlds- black and white, lower middle class and upper middle class/kinda rich, city and suburbia- the 2 Starr's.
anybody else?"
I am finding that a very cogent part of the book. In our country now, we have numerous subcultures and I think we all unconsciously make these choices as we navigate worlds where we cross all kinds of lines. Watching Starr do it hyper-aware of what she's doing is instructive for all of us. I am a Jewish, white middle class retired social worker. I live in a very diverse suburb of Chicago and cross all kinds of racial/religious/class/ethnic lines each day and probably learned to do what Starr is doing to a point where it has become automatic.
Raymond wrote: "Just out of curiosity, how long did it take you all to realize that the title was also an acronym for THUG?"Until I got the UK edition for some reason, put it on a shelf and saw it say "THUG" on the spine :D:D Then I turned it over, suddenly afraid I had gotten the wrong book and saw it. I felt so stupid :D
So I will be starting today. I really don't know what to expect from this. I've spent some time in the US, but since I live in Germany most of this will be completely new territory for me. I'm actually really curious to see how I'll feel about this book.
I've been surprised by how well I've been relating to this book and I think it's because of how well the protagonist Starr is being depicted.
Kay Dee wrote: "What really got me was how much i related to the character. living in 2 worlds,,,"That was quite powerful. For one, I think it's helpful to illustrate that kind of code switching for people who are unfamiliar with it. For two, it's something I have to do all the time and it's nice just to see that reflected in the media I consume.
I also really liked that Starr's parents were realistic but still good parents. You don't have to be a vision of perfection yourself to raise good kids and I liked that that message was so clear. I can see a lot of readers identifying seeing their own parents reflected in Starr's.
Esse, I like the term "code switching." I had never heard it before but it pretty much describes what Starr does. I feel that all of us do it in various ways all the time. I don't think we're the same with every person we meet. Most of us, however, do it unconsciously. Seeing Starr doing it in a sense under a microscope really illuminated this phenomenon.
Lisa wrote: "Esse, I like the term "code switching." I had never heard it before but it pretty much describes what Starr does. I feel that all of us do it in various ways all the time. I don't think we're the s..."There is a good NPR podcast on the subject of code switching that I enjoy. http://www.npr.org/podcasts/510312/co...
Thanks Raymond. I'll try to listen to this later when I have more time.
I Recently read this book and it is probally one of the best books i've ever read,
I really enjoyed the action and the characters and felt it was both realistic and touching. My complete review is here.It is definitely a YA highlight for 2017!
message 33:
by
Kay Dee (what is your storygraph name?
(last edited Oct 11, 2017 09:02AM)
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
Lisa wrote: "Esse, I like the term "code switching." I had never heard it before but it pretty much describes what Starr does. I feel that all of us do it in various ways all the time. I don't think we're the same with every person we meet. Most of us, however, do it unconsciously. Seeing Starr doing it in a sense under a microscope really illuminated this phenomenon."
umm for those who are different whether it's race or gender or sexual orientation, we ALWAYS are consciously code switching.
after many years it may become automatic but depending on where we are and who we are with we are ALWAYS conscious of the difference and the need to fit in and wear a certain personality. those who are not, don't change. they are the same no matter what group they are around. the only folks i have ever known that didn't do the switching were white, straight, nice looking, popular, and had good incomes (or their parents did).
my aunt uses slang quite a bit when she is in work mode. she sounds like a white girl who has never spoken a word of slang. it used to be just at work. now i notice her voice and language changes even outside of work if she is doing the same type of things - teaching, audiovisual work, etc.
now myself, i know i switch it up with almost every group i am around- family, work, church. i try not to. i WANT to be real and authentic but almost 40 years of trying to fit in makes it automatic. it is also a trust thing; i don't really.
When I worked in Spanish Harlem, I tried to make a point of not doing it. I was very conscious not to use black slang because I was afraid I would sound insulting or patronizing if I used it. I tried to remember that throughout my social work career. But now I'm wondering if I did do that code switching subconsciously. I hope I didn't.
What a fantastic book! It brings out everything into the open. These subjects are still so hard to talk about openly even with friends and family without starting arguments. I am glad there is a well-written book now saying it all.
I just finished this book literally about half an hour ago, and it’s one of those ones that has you thinking so deeply you go into zombie mode a little bit. I don’t know how else to describe it so I’m just copying and pasting what I wrote in my review....“Amazing. Thought provoking. Beautiful. Deep. Heartbreaking.
On the surface this book is about police brutality against black Americans. But there are SO many more issues explored in this book: racism, stereotypes, gangs, violence, class and race loyalty, family relationships, personal growth. The list goes on. The author has done an absolutely stunning job of exploring these topics in a way that really makes readers chew and think on them.
My one issue with this book is that the author did not really delve into the police side of the story. The vast majority of the police officers in the United States are good cops. It would have added another, very important, layer of depth to this story to see that perspective, and to explore the issues within the police force that possibly lead to these situations (other than individual cops just being racist). We see it some with Uncle Carlos, but not as much as I would have personally liked.
For that reason, I gave this 4 stars. Definitely a must read for everyone, though.”
An important read that took me by surprise and gave me insight into the complexities of the African American community. It reminded of Shantaram in the sense that it really opened my eyes to different cultures.
Jenny wrote: "I just finished this book literally about half an hour ago, and it’s one of those ones that has you thinking so deeply you go into zombie mode a little bit. I don’t know how else to describe it so ..."I thought that by having Uncle Carlos, the cop, she was doing that to some extent. Perhaps the author couldn't see the cop's point of view when they kill people with no apparent provocation. I'm usually pretty empathetic but I find that I can't do that either.
It appears to me that the author has included all of the huge number of issues troubling minority communities. There is one problem which has always mystified me, whether it was about the Puerto Rican/Irish/Asian gangs of earlier times, or the black neighborhoods of today - why do siloed redlined communities tend to destroy their own communities during riots? I can see why attacks are made on large national stores or government offices, but the small mom 'n pop businesses? Which also brings in the issue of black-on-black gang crime (or Latino-on-Latino crime, etc.,) in ghettos - the reliance on violent subjugation of their own community, the posturing of gangs to display their willingness to murder, rape and steal from their own family, relatives and neighbors. It is amazing to me. Why not concentrate their violence more on the sources of their poverty and lack of resources? The French Revolution did that. The poor literally became a mob, organized, then literally murdered all of the aristocracy. (Later, they began to murder each other.)
It seems like these people were so outraged that they went collectively crazy and things just got out of control. Logically, they should have gone downtown and set fire to the police headquarters of whatever city this was supposed to be. The book was deliberately unclear about that I think because this police violence has happened in many U.S. cities. There was no logic to what this mob did but I guess they didn't have any logic left.
Lisa wrote: "It seems like these people were so outraged that they went collectively crazy and things just got out of control. Logically, they should have gone downtown and set fire to the police headquarters o..."aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "It appears to me that the author has included all of the huge number of issues troubling minority communities.
There is one problem which has always mystified me, whether it was about the Puerto ..."
I found this article that explains why rioters do what they do?
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2014...
message 43:
by
aPriL does feral sometimes
(last edited Oct 14, 2017 11:06PM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Thank you, Raymond. But the article does not explain the situation adequately for me. Many local businesses in black neighborhoods are black-owned, employing black people. They are burned down, too, along with the primarily white stockholders businesses. I totally understand the feeling of wanting to burn down a corporate MacDonalds, but not a known black-owned franchise or local black-owned restaurant that employs local residents. You can see how it looks in the media.I do not advocate mindless violence; however, given the rage, prejudice, and lack of justice through the courts, I think it more logical to drive to rich, white communities and burn their businesses down - the high-end stores in white communities. Just saying, if it was about me.
My bonafides - half native-Alaskan and half white trailer-trash third generation American-German, grew up in welfare/blue collar white/American-native neighborhood, alcoholism prevalent among almost all of the ‘greatest generation’ men, mixed religious neighborhood of Catholics and Protestants, too many unmarried girls on welfare by age 16, lots of four children+ households, most parents were married once in the 1950’s at some point but physical abuse/alcoholism/low-paying jobs made jokes of most marriage vows, high school diplomas were rare for parents to have, raped and badly-bruised kids was not unusual, smoking and drinking started at age 13 for most boys, houses decayed without repairs. (The same neighborhood I grew up in is now mixed but mostly white - whether Latino or European - upscale, gentrified and various levels of middle-class.)
No question that because I looked mostly white, I passed job interviews, plus I intentionally shopped at upscale stores for clothes for work, and used accentless $5 words at work with my college graduate bosses. My dad had a heavy German accent and I wore thrift shop clothes until high school, but I copied my teachers, not my parents, for how to behave. It worked in job interviews, although my sex meant I could only ever be a secretary, CONSTANTLY asked about my marriage status and when would I have kids, between sexual attacks in elevators and storerooms (not kidding).
In other words, I think I understand the rage against lack of opportunities and injustice, but attacking one’s own locally-owned neighborhood and neighbors is like taking the cash out of your wallet and savings and burning up all of your paper money because you hate the government.
Despite that I finally went to college and got a computer science degree, I had to work as an office assistant. No company would hire a 40-year-old recent college graduate as a programmer AND a woman. I sent out 100 resumes in 1991, got five responses - every interview turned out to be in all-male computer companies (gave me tours), except for the receptionist and/or human resources. They wanted a computer savvy secretary, not a programmer. In my graduate class, all of the men were hired as programmers within one month. Of us three women, none of us were hired as a programmer. I checked.
The style of protest in the French Revolution seemed more like the answer at the time, not blowing up my own house.
Just saying.
I don't think the burning up of the neighborhood was a thought out response. It was an instinctual reaction.
I think it has been pointed out in many ways and by many folks over the years that the black communities often lack leadership. I do think sometimes restraint takes the form of shame in communities where not everyone can puzzle out for themselves what to do about indignities perpetrated on their communities. Takes some teaching/learning to know how to react. A lot more talking about everything needs to happen. What may be the fastest, most humane, and most felicitous way to turn around the rage that builds in mistreated communities is to fix the housing debacle gathering steam even now. (I think I agree w/think tank fix of encouraging low-income folks to live in middle & hi-income areas rather than off by themselves.) Listen to this remarkable podcast about lo-income housing in Dallas...& around the country now:
Totally freakin' impressed w/ nuanced reporting on this critical issue fm Frontline Dispatches podcast @raneyaronson https://t.co/Gs3Rp9Pw3B
Terrific podcast, Trish! : )
Trish wrote: "I think it has been pointed out in many ways and by many folks over the years that the black communities often lack leadership. I do think sometimes restraint takes the form of shame in communities..."aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "Thank you, Raymond. But the article does not explain the situation adequately for me. Many local businesses in black neighborhoods are black-owned, employing black people. They are burned down, too..."
I would say that a riot is not a form of protest. People riot because they have no hope and they believe that nothing will ever change and because nothing will ever change they do not see something wrong with causing destruction. They probably would argue that if people cared about us we would not be in this situation where we would have to riot. That is what I think it's going. We can never understand why people riot because we haven't live that life. I'm African-American and I don't understand it either because I did not grow up in a low-income community.
Martin Luther King said it best "The riot is the language of the unheard". Here is a video of King being interviewed by Mike Wallace. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_ehN...
I would echo King's comment about the economic situation in the 1960s compared to today. I'm currently reading Ta-Nehisi Coates' collection of essays We Were Eight Years in Power: An American Tragedy. In one of his essays he mentions how much progress has been made in the African-American community except in one area and that is in economics. African-Americans are in the same economic situation as they were in the 1960s. So its no wonder riots have occurred in some communities after these deaths of unarmed black men by police.
A link about a 1947 film made by the US government, being shown to college students:https://youtu.be/uVvbh2_Oh94
Thank you Raymond, Trish and Lisa. I am seeing it now through your comments.
Diversity in All Forms!
Books mentioned in this topic
Copper Sun (other topics)Detour for Emmy (other topics)
Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West (other topics)
The Fashion Disaster that Changed my Life (other topics)
Alice Alone (other topics)
More...
