The Grishaverse discussion
Ruin and Rising
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DISCUSS THE FIRST CHAPTER OF RUIN AND RISING
Cari wrote: "Yes, we do know a bit about it:In this third Ravkan folk tale from Leigh Bardugo, a beautiful girl finds that what her father wants for her and what she wants for herself are two different things..."
Wait is Mal the father in this scenario? Lol that description reminds me more of Genya.
WinterRose wrote: "Wait is Mal the father in this scenario? Lol that description reminds me more of Genya. "ROFL ) It also reminds me of Genya, because beauty is mentioned, but it could be used metaphorically.
Natalia wrote: "Why are you all so sure it should be about Alina and Mal?"One of my favorite things about these novellas is that each illuminates an aspect of Alina and one of the guys in the series. The first one is about the Darkling, the second one is about Nikolai. We are assuming the last one will be about Mal.
Laura wrote: "Cari wrote: "Laura wrote: "In this third Ravkan folk tale from Leigh Bardugo, a beautiful girl finds that what her father wants for her and what she wants for herself are two different things. In ..."
I stayed up until midnight of the day it was supposed to be released and kept refreshing the darn page and nothing. Then I realized the date had been changed.
I guess the other two novellas were released after the volume in the series they're meant to accompany. But I was really counting on this one being released before, so that we could read it as a preparation to R&R.
@ Cari: I see. Well, I understand why the novella will be released AFTER R&R - it may have spoilers for endgame, whatever it is.
Maybe since it is about Mal and after all the discussions, the publisher decided to move the novella back, so that people who are of various camps will still buy the book.The novella might give away too many hints about the endgame?
WinterRose wrote: "Cari wrote: "Yes, we do know a bit about it:In this third Ravkan folk tale from Leigh Bardugo, a beautiful girl finds that what her father wants for her and what she wants for herself are two dif..."
In "Witch of Ravka", the person who's representing the Darkling is a woman. That's why I don't think the gender of the characters in the novellas will necessarily correspond to the gender of a character in the main story.
Sorry for the repeat post, my laptop is acting up.The beautiful girl could be Mal. But we'll have to wait and see.
Actually, it would be really cool if all of the guys are represented by girls in the novellas. (I think the Darkling is and also Nikolai, although that one is more debatable).
@Natalia and Laura- That's a good reason not to release it... But if "Little Knife" is as cryptic as "Too-clever fox" we could be discussing it for a year and still not know for sure :)@Natalia and WinterRose- You guyyyssss, you are forgetting Mal is beautiful. My kingdom and a cappuccino the girl is Mal. If I loose, you can keep my kingdom but I'm going to need my cappuccino ;P
Cari wrote: "The beautiful girl could be Mal. But we'll have to wait and see."Out of the context this phrase is hilarious. )))
Cari wrote: "@Natalia and WinterRose- You guyyyssss, you are forgetting Mal is beautiful. My kingdom and a cappuccino the girl is Mal. If I loose, you can keep my kingdom but I'm going to need my cappuccino ;P "Deal :) Who is the father then?
Natalia wrote: "Cari wrote: "The beautiful girl could be Mal. But we'll have to wait and see."Out of the context this phrase is hilarious. )))"
Hahaha... Now I want a scene in which all the boys are dressed up as girls. I don't think there is a context on Earth that could make sense of that but oh if only I could draw...
The Darkling: Let's not forget we're doing this for Ravka.
Nikolai: This corset is too tight.
Mal: That guy just made a pass at me.
:))
@ Cari: how am I supposed to go to sleep when you are posting all these hilarious things here?!? I can't stop laughing )))
If it's any consolation, I'm laughing too :))edit- Also, you started it! :))
Natalia wrote: "Cari wrote: "@Natalia and WinterRose- You guyyyssss, you are forgetting Mal is beautiful. My kingdom and a cappuccino the girl is Mal. If I loose, you can keep my kingdom but I'm going to need my c..."I have no idea, we'll have to wait and see.
I am hoping macmillan will also release chapters 2 and 3. Do you remember how much they have released of other books as part of the re-reading events?
Well, I guess all three guys are badass enough that no one would doubt their manliness, even if they were dressed in corsets :)I may have weird dreams now, though )))
Natalia wrote: "Well, I guess all three guys are badass enough that no one will doubt their manliness, even if they were dressed in corsets :)I may have weird dreams now, though )))
Who do you think is the father?"
I really have no idea. We would have to read it to find out and rake our brains too. Read these novellas and you'll see, they're beautiful and twisty and hard to pin down. They lend themselves to many different kinds of interpretations.
If you dream of the guys dressed up as beautiful maidens (or wenches), please I want all the details of what they were wearing :))
Cari wrote: "Natalia wrote: "Well, I guess all three guys are badass enough that no one will doubt their manliness, even if they were dressed in corsets :)
I may have weird dreams now, though )))
Who do you th..."
Cari, ditto. The details would be hysterical.
Anyway, Sergei's girlfriend was Marie, who died in the battle at the end of S&S. Nadia was Marie's friend and had no boyfriend.
I may have weird dreams now, though )))
Who do you th..."
Cari, ditto. The details would be hysterical.
Anyway, Sergei's girlfriend was Marie, who died in the battle at the end of S&S. Nadia was Marie's friend and had no boyfriend.
Thank you for clarifying, Elvina! :) Then, we don´t really know much about her. Right?I need to re-read S&S.
Also, sort of related to the "funny imaginary" scene. Do you envision any possible reason for the 3 guys to get together in R&R?
I think that would be pretty great. I mean, the 3 of them being in the same place, with the Darkling and Mal at each other's throats and Nikolai making fun of them.
I can't type anything long until Sunday, but good thing I'm reading the book at Barnes and Noble before buying it.Third installments with love triangles usually piss me off because of the character assassinations.
I have a nagging feeling that Mal will be the next Gale Hawthorne or Adam Kent (Even if I hated him and my ship was endgame). Please no.
At this point everyone fears their favorite couple will not be endgame. We'll have to wait and see.Personally, I just want them all to live, naïve and impossible as that sound.
I honestly wish Leigh never put a love triangle in the book. I thought it was unnecessary, and love triangles normally ruin characters for me.I'm kinda starting to hate Alina because if she does end up leaving Mal after saying she'll be a good enough person to wish him well but not today, and drags him along anyways, I'd hate her.
I've had favorite characters of mine in the past, like Mako from the Legend of Korra, turn out to be douches because they don't know what they want and they're hurting everyone else in the process.
I'm hoping Alina doesn't turn out that way, because her sarcasm has made her my favorite book heroine, excluding Penryn, so far.
Cari wrote: The Darkling: Let's not forget we're doing this for Ravka.Nikolai: This corset is too tight.
Mal: That guy just made a pass at me.
After an extremely long day (week, month, etc....), that was a hilarious mental image to come home to find*L*
Well, at least we can all agree on this - love triangles suck. Half the readers and one of the guys always have their hearts broken, and that is not a pleasant experience.Leigh is a talented writer, and I wish her new series (if she decided to write one) would come without a love triangle.
So I have a question: who of you is going to peek at the ending 0f R&R before reading the book?
I won't, because if I get disappointed, I might end up not wanting to read it at all. It happened before, actually twice this year.
I had the bad experience of looking at the last sentence of catching fire and spoiling the whole book...So although it's verrrry tempting i won't! :P
Natalia wrote: "Well, at least we can all agree on this - love triangles suck. Half the readers and one of the guys always have their hearts broken, and that is not a pleasant experience.Leigh is a talented write..."
Oh I will for sure haha. At least I'll be prepared.
I peaked at the end of the last two trilogies I finished and it ruined my whole thought process during the actual reading! It'll take all my energy, snacks, and sanity for the entire 12 hours I'll read through Ruin and Rising not to skip immediately for spoilers *_*
Cari wrote: "Personally, I just want them all to live, naïve and impossible as that sound."Ditto.
Cari wrote: "Also, sort of related to the "funny imaginary" scene. Do you envision any possible reason for the 3 guys to get together in R&R?
I think that would be pretty great. I mean, the 3 of them being in the same place, with the Darkling and Mal at each other's throats and Nikolai making fun of them. "
I wish Leigh would write something like that. That would be epic. Fanfiction would do, too, but coming from the author it would be more exciting, because those are her characters.
Cari wrote: " Also, sort of related to the "funny imaginary" scene. Do you envision any possible reason for the 3 guys to get together in R&R?I think that would be pretty great. I mean, the 3 of them being in the same place, with the Darkling and Mal at each other's throats and Nikolai making fun of them. "
I think it would be funny if Alina would go power hungry and leave all the guys. The at the end of the book they met at a tavern.
The Darkling: "She took my power..."
Mal:"She broke my heart."
Nikolai:"She took my kingdom!"
@ Elena: Hahaha))))I want the Grisha series rewritten as satire/mock parody.
Natalia wrote: "@ Elena: Hahaha))))I want the Grisha series rewritten as satire/mock parody."
Me too! But just imagine the faces of the people in the tavern . And after that the Darkling and Nikolai and Mal become BFFS.
LOL
Natalia wrote: "Well, at least we can all agree on this - love triangles suck. Half the readers and one of the guys always have their hearts broken, and that is not a pleasant experience.Leigh is a talented write..."
Yesss. Love triangles SUCKS! Sniffs. But I'm dealing with it in this series; as I love it too much :) Hih. <3
Also. YES. I will be peeking at the end of Ruin and Rising before starting it :D I always peek at ending of books first, lol. (Though, you should all know that I have pre-ordered TONS of different copies of Ruin and Rising :p I'm weird like that, lol.) Also pre-ordered the Kindle version for my iPad, so that I can peek right away on June 17th :D As book will take forever to arrive to me here in Norway :p Anyway. I cannot wait :D
Love triangles are annoying. The girl needs to get some sense knocked into her head so that she can make up her mind and not continue being not-so-great to both.
Ha! SO I'm not the only one who does that! I think I have either pre-ordered just the Kindle copy or the Kindle copy and the book copy. I'd have to wait until the end of the school day (which would be short because finals) if I didn't get my Kindle.
Ha! SO I'm not the only one who does that! I think I have either pre-ordered just the Kindle copy or the Kindle copy and the book copy. I'd have to wait until the end of the school day (which would be short because finals) if I didn't get my Kindle.
I'm amazed at how many people are going to read the last page first )))Just please, don't give any spoilers, okay?
Or maybe I'll just disappear from Goodreads for a day or two while I'll be reading this.
And then we are going to DISCUSS )))
I'll probably check the end and then read it all in one day (I have finals -- which are half-days, and I'll have time after them). Perhaps we should say when we are each done and have a discussion for people who've finished/like spoilers and one where spoilers are frowned on?
Since the boy and the girl in all the prologues and epilogues happen to be Mal and Alina, then I'm guessing Mal and Alina will make it to the end and be together.Unless it's a tragic ending where one of them lost the other, or both died.
Helpful. The characters will either live or die. Sorry, felt like being a little sarcastic just because I'm in that sort of mood.
Anyway, it does seem like it would talk about Mal and Alina. It could also say that the boy and girl went their separate ways. I'm voting for tragic ending though, just because tragic endings are awesome when well done, and I think Ms. Bardugo could pull it off.
Anyway, it does seem like it would talk about Mal and Alina. It could also say that the boy and girl went their separate ways. I'm voting for tragic ending though, just because tragic endings are awesome when well done, and I think Ms. Bardugo could pull it off.
Elena wrote: "I think it would be funny if Alina would go power hungry and leave all the guys. The at the end of the book they met at a tavern.The Darkling: "She took my power..."
Mal:"She broke my heart."
Nikolai:"She took my kingdom!"
I love this!! :))
Well, the possibility that Alina ends up alone is still on the table. I started re-reading S&S today, and I'm noticing many Alina making many comments about the idea of the future as a couple makes her nervous. I think she's still not sure of what she wants, but it's interesting that she doesn't seem too happy at the prospect.
Also, I just thought of a scenario in which the 3 guys will be together: battle :(
Be it Alina and company storm the Grand Palace to look for the Darkling or he finds them, I'm pretty sure there'll be little to no comic relief in such scene.
Didn't Leigh say she knew who Alina was going to end up with since the beginning of writing the trilogy? Meaning she wouldn't be alone, and Nikolai isn't much of a possibility since he was produced around the making of the second book. Since the Darklina ship sank and Mal and Alina ended up being endgame at the end, I think Alina will be with Mal again not only because they're still in love and were forced apart, but because an epilogue with them together would be consistent with the rest and tie the series up in a neat little bow.
I've always wondered why all the prologues and epilogues have Mal and Alina as the boy and girl, and it leads me to believe that this story is about their relationship.
Vindictev wrote: "Didn't Leigh say she knew who Alina was going to end up with since the beginning of writing the trilogy? Meaning she wouldn't be alone, and Nikolai isn't much of a possibility since he was made aro..."
I doubt it would be Nikolai as well, but one can never know before seeing it.
However, I don't think the Darklina ship is sunk (especially not, seeing as I do ship it). I do acknowledge that there is a chance that Malina could be endgame. I personally would rather it be that such is not the case. Also, I am very set in my opinions as you are in yours, so arguing would not really get anywhere.
I don't think that following of the relationship has to be romantic. It could just be following them as a way to show their coming into their own.
I doubt it would be Nikolai as well, but one can never know before seeing it.
However, I don't think the Darklina ship is sunk (especially not, seeing as I do ship it). I do acknowledge that there is a chance that Malina could be endgame. I personally would rather it be that such is not the case. Also, I am very set in my opinions as you are in yours, so arguing would not really get anywhere.
I don't think that following of the relationship has to be romantic. It could just be following them as a way to show their coming into their own.
@ Vindictev and Elvina-Nikolai's role is to make Mal's and the Darkling's existence even more thorny and make us laugh :)) He may not get the girl in the end, but he'll make sure to keep things interesting.
I found it interesting that in the QnA, when talking about endgame, Leigh said many things but also mentioned "if" she ended up with someone. Perhaps it was just to throw people off, but then again who knows.
I don't want him to get the girl. I don't think he likes her like that. Well, not really. Maybe there's a bit of attraction.
Insert Beethoven's Fifth
Insert Beethoven's Fifth
Cari wrote: "@ Vindictev and Elvina-Nikolai's role is to make Mal's and the Darkling's existence even more thorny and make us laugh :)) He may not get the girl in the end, but he'll make sure to keep things i..."
I think Nikolai is also there to make Alina understand the Darkling better, because he IS like the Darkling in many ways. I didn't pay much attention to this connection the first time around, but it is EVERYWHERE. And the funny thing is that Alina agrees with Nikolai almost every time, repeating his own words of wisdom in her mind.
Vindictev wrote: "Didn't Leigh say she knew who Alina was going to end up with since the beginning of writing the trilogy? Meaning she wouldn't be alone"
Do you think that if Leigh planned Alina to be alone, she would tell us this? Of course she wouldn't!
Vindictev wrote: "I think Alina will be with Mal again not only because they're still in love and were forced apart, but because an epilogue with them together would be consistent with the rest and tie the series up in a neat little bow."
Also, it will be incredibly predictable. And boring.
Not boring to me. I'd actually flip into the stars if I saw Mal and Alina finally get their long deserved happy ending. Plus we don't know how much conflict they'll go through to achieve that, so at least it wouldn't be so easily given, and I don't find star-crossed lovers boring at all.
No duh Leigh wouldn't tell us if Alina would be alone because it'll ruin the book's marketing.
I'm also surprised at how Leigh said her favorite scene was when Mal and Alina kissed before the Stag showed up in her Q&A interview in the Shadow and Bone paperback. Kinda reminds me of when Tahereh Mafi said Chapter 62, a huge Warnette chapter, was her favorite only for us to find out she rooted for them all this time.
Makes me think Leigh is secretly rooting for Malina as well, but you never know. Leigh's very secretive, but for her to favorite that extremely shippy Malina scene out of everything in S&B really made me think.
I believe the ending will have Mal and Alina like the boy and the girl, but it'll be painful while they still love each other, because I can't see them ever falling out of love. Kind of like the ending to the Fault in our Stars.I actually kinda want but also don't want an ending like that, but angst pairings are what I live and breathe for so yesss but also no. Mal, Alina, please don't die.
I have an idea that will satisfy everyone. Alina gets split into three, and one fragment of her ends up with each guy. That way, no one is upset by her not ending up with the guy they ship with her.
In short, how about we talk about something else before we scare everyone off again.
In short, how about we talk about something else before we scare everyone off again.
Vindictev wrote: "I don't find star-crossed lovers boring at all"It's funny how people can read the same book and have such a different impression, 'cause "star-crossed" is the last expression I'd use to describe Mal and Alina.
To me what's keeping them apart is their lack of communication and their lack of a common goal (at least for now/great part of s&b and s&s): part of what they are, not the external world.
Actually, without the external world, without Alina being forced to use her power first and then to be taken away who knows if Mal would have ever seen her.
Now, sure the Darlking/Nikolai are doing their best to put even more distance between them, but it all starts from how Mal and Alina behave/behaved towards each others. That's how I feel about it, anyway.
In this third Gr..."
There are two descriptions for the Little Knife on Goodreads. The other one came from the description that was supposed to be published at the beginning of this month, NOT in June. :(