Glens Falls (NY) Online Book Discussion Group discussion
ABOUT BOOKS AND READING
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What are you reading or what books have you read or heard about? (Part TWELVE) Ongoing general thread.
Minds into machines is an old, interesting concept in SF & it's getting closer to reality all the time. There are plans to build computers now with the capacity to surpass our brains in the number of connections & even deal with multiple states of certainty using quantum computing, although I haven't read anything about software that can take advantage of it. IIRC, back in the 60s, the Russians tried working with an operating system that used uncertainty by using base 5 (We all use base 2 now. That's binary, on/off.) which allowed on, off, maybe, & 2 states of more or less on or off. Didn't work out then due to the complexity & early hardware, but it might be good reading for the new attempts.There have been a lot of attempts to pin down what our consciousness is, but I haven't read any major breakthroughs in that area, although Artificial Intelligence (AI) has come a long way. People are a whole different ball game though. So much of our memory is associative & filtered not only through recent memories, but also our physical state at the time. To misquote Vonnegut, we're 'badly behaving bags of chemicals' & that doesn't lend itself to easy investigation, especially since we can't seem to define terms properly.
If we did transfer a consciousness, it might wind up being more like a photograph of the mind at that time - a static thing devoid of purpose or the ability to change - unless emotional analogs are programmed in since much (all?) of our emotion is chemical in nature & emotions are our driving forces. I skimmed an article a while back about just how much. It was pure speculation & had several different takes on it, but one opinion was that the mind would become nothing save unreliable data.
It's an interesting area & I'm sure they'll be exploring it soon, although it will be fraught with controversy. It's another of those areas where old beliefs will clash with the new means of fulfilling old desires. Many have wanted immortality & this might be a way to achieve it, but I'm sure a lot of religious groups will have issues with it. There won't be any possibility of reconciliation since we've never been able to find any evidence of a 'soul' or even define it properly. It will fall into the same shouting match that abortion has due to the same irrational beliefs & desire to make others believe the same way.
Heck, we can't even define 'life' & 'death' to everyone's satisfaction. The 'Tree of Life' is undergoing a lot of revisions now due to our better understanding of DNA. Many are for giving viruses a branch of their own, but others say not since they're not really alive, so they should be placed on the branches where they're active. Others have trashed the tree & made a circle that confuses me. Actually, all the new trees are confusing too since most of the inhabitants are things I've never or barely read about.
Our medical technology has certainly made death an iffy state now. I guess it's better than just a few centuries ago when they buried people alive, but I'm not entirely sure. IMO, modern medicine tortured both my grandfathers to death since they were revived & kept alive in pain for weeks with no hope of recovery or reason for existence. I wouldn't treat my dog that way, so I don't understand why we do it to people. The whole idea that 'life' is sacred needs a healthy dose of rationality added & far better legal definition. The only resource we have too much of is people. When resources become too scarce, if we don't have some rational defining lines, it's really going to be ugly.
Interesting times...
Jim wrote: "Minds into machines is an old, interesting concept in SF & it's getting closer to reality all the time. There are plans to build computers now with the capacity to surpass our brains in the number ..."Jim, you definitely have read more on these subjects that I have. Sometimes I think it's better not to think of these things at all and to enjoy the present as best we can. We can't really prove anything anyway. Much of it is just speculation.
Last night we skyped a visit with our kids via the Internet. There they were on the screen and we were talking to them, live! Years ago we would have said this was impossible!
Skype is pretty wild. Our Internet connection won't handle it well here, unfortunately. It's a great way to chat with family far away. Our kids are pretty good about sending pictures, too. Just got a whole bunch of the grandmonster today. He'll be 3 in 2 months, so changing fast.As for not thinking of some of these changes... I don't agree. What is life & death is an important question we must each answer for ourselves. We can't know what death is unless we know what life is. 90% of the cells in our body are bacteria, although they only make up 10% of the total mass. How do we measure what life is in an organism as complex as a human?
There are 2 legal criteria for death in this country: cardiopulmonary & brain death. We have the tech to keep people alive like some sort of science project & that can put off cardiopulmonary death for quite a long time. Brain death isn't well defined & varies by area & even the individual making the determination. Things like Lazarus responses, basically reflexive actions, are often misread by grieving family & doctors. I read somewhere that 90% of the deaths in ICU are now due to withholding further life sustaining efforts.
We must know what's allowed legally & fight for reasonable changes. A lot of people are moving to places like Oregon so they can die with some dignity at their own hand rather than linger as they would in most states when they have a terminal illness. Having seen several people in the end stages of diseases like cancer, Parkinson's, or ALS, I can understand the desire. We no longer allow nature to take its course, so why do we insist on a 'natural' death?
As science progresses, there are finer lines & bigger gray areas, but we're too often constrained by outdated laws & social customs. We must make sure our family knows & agrees as well. We knew a guy who broke his neck when his horse stumbled after a jump. He was just in his 60's & had been healthy, but he was in bad shape - rarely or vaguely conscious, no hope of recovery, & without a living will. They were divided on how to handle it. He was kept on various life support for about 2 years before he died. The family was beggared & ruined. They lost a beautiful farm & most of them won't speak to one another any more.
Marg & I made sure we have up-to-date health & legal proxies. Hopefully we'll have to update them a couple/few more times, but who can tell? I don't want to be a vege & ruin my family while doctors keep me alive if there is no hope of recovery. It's not unusual for a person's medical bills in the last month of their life to be more than the rest of their life all together. IMO, that's a ridiculous waste of resources & I include the family's emotional resources in that.
To go into the SF field - what is SF right now, but might not be soon - what will define death if a mind can be uploaded into a computer? What if the computer is destroyed, but they left a backup? Crime will really get confusing. If I destroy a computer with a person's mind in it & they have a backup, did I commit murder? No? What about the time that's gone between the backup & 'death'? What if they committed a crime during that time? Are they still responsible? I know, it seems silly to think about, but it may well be here soon. I don't envy those who do need to formulate new laws based on new tech. So far most governments have done a pretty poor job creating new laws for the computer age.
I once experienced "little death," as opposed, I was told, to "near death." I had a problem with Fibrillation of the heart and was given an injection that stops everything in your body. I was supposed to come right back and my husband was watching the monitor and it dropped to the bottom and the nurse went running out of the room as I wasn't doing the usual thing and then he heard a voice coming loudly from the nurses station saying, "She's coming back." And so I did. Later on like a couple of weeks when I was at the doctor's for my check up I asked him why I felt so tired and he answered me saying that when you actually die everything stops and it takes a while to get everything back in working order. I haven't had to go through that again, thank heavens as I take a daily medication to prevent it.
Jim wrote: "Skype is pretty wild. Our Internet connection won't handle it well here, unfortunately. It's a great way to chat with family far away. Our kids are pretty good about sending pictures, too. Just got..."About all the issues you mentioned, they sure are worrisome! And formulating "new laws based on new tech" is a huge challenge. I'm glad I'm not a lawyer or a law-maker.
Nina wrote: "I once experienced "little death," as opposed, I was told, to "near death." I had a problem with Fibrillation of the heart and was given an injection that stops everything in your body. I was suppo..."Glad you "came back", Nina!
What Joy said, Nina. Glad you made it back. Medicine is pretty amazing today. Our knowledge has increased an amazing amount. Just 200 years ago, no one knew what bacteria did & a common method of revival was to literally blow smoke up the patient's butt! Seriously.http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.p...
In my lifetime the most grateful as far as medicine was concerned was the polio vaccine. I used to live in dread of having to live in the Iron lung.
Nina wrote: "In my lifetime the most grateful as far as medicine was concerned was the polio vaccine. I used to live in dread of having to live in the Iron lung."It makes me sad to think about the people who had to endure living in the iron lung. Below is from Wiki:
"On October 30, 2009, June Middleton of Melbourne, Australia, who had been entered in the Guinness Book of Records as the person who spent the longest time in an iron lung, died aged 83, having spent more than 60 years in her iron lung."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_lung
When my husband was at Notre Dame he remembers a person in an Iron Lung being pushed one to football field to try and watch the game. He had a cousin die from polio and another one lived her life as a cripple.
Nina wrote: "When my husband was at Notre Dame he remembers a person in an Iron Lung being pushed one to football field to try and watch the game. He had a cousin die from polio and another one lived her life a..."Nina, that is so sad!
It's stories like that which enrage me against people like Jenny McCarthy & Jim Carey who are preaching against vaccinations based on pseudoscience & completely disproven studies. It's disgusting. They should get sued for child endangerment.
Jim wrote: "It's stories like that which enrage me against people like Jenny McCarthy & Jim Carey who are preaching against vaccinations based on pseudoscience & completely disproven studies. It's disgusting. ..."Jim, you'd like the headline at the following Time Magazine article: "Jim Carrey, Please Shut Up About Vaccines"
http://time.com/3944067/jim-carrey-va...
I totally agree with Jim. I can't imagine endangering my child in that way. Believe me as soon as the polio vaccines were available my older children at that time were vulnerable and off they went for the vaccines and if the measles one had been available back then I would have gladly had them taken as it is no fun to have five children with measles and chicken pox and scarlet fever. Joy perhaps you had similar problems.
Nina, to answer your question, I really never thought about it much. However, when our son had chicken pox, I didn't recognize it as such. I thought he had a terrible rash and was very worried until I found out what it really was. LOL My big worry is sports injuries. One of our son's face was battered in a soccer game. Not sure if it was caused by a ball or a foot. His nose was smashed and his lips all swollen. To this day his nose is a bit off to the side but not much. He's very handsome anyway! :) A real hunk! LOL
I don't even want to read it, Joy. I've read too many such articles, but thanks, anyway. Their fear-mongering puts everyone in danger, too. Vaccines aren't perfect & some people can't get them due to compromised immune systems or their age. If people can, they should. All of them.We never worried much about physical injuries. They were far too common working on the farm & riding horses & motorcycles. We can't even remember who had what broken bones or stitches save for a few truly memorable accidents. It's just happened too often.
It's a miracle the way the body can heal!
When two of my children were four and five they suffered greatly from Scarlet Fever and had to be mostly bedridden for three months so their hearts wouldn't be damaged. Not an easy time for us but my dear father sometimes came on his lunch hour and played games with them while sitting on their bedside. I kept them both/girl and boy on a hide a bed in the living room so they weren't so isolated and their hearts survived as did mine.
Yes. Your son is good looking and what a miracle that was after such an accident. I am sure at the time you weren't sure what would be the result. It must have been so very painful at the time.
Nina wrote: "When two of my children were four and five they suffered greatly from Scarlet Fever and had to be mostly bedridden for three months so their hearts wouldn't be damaged. Not an easy time for us but ..."Nina, my husband had scarlet fever, and then rheumatic fever when he was 10 years old. He too was bedridden for months, but he survived OK. As you say, not an easy time.
Nina wrote: "Yes. Your son is good looking and what a miracle that was after such an accident. I am sure at the time you weren't sure what would be the result. It must have been so very painful at the time."Thank you, Nina. It took a while for the swelling to go down.
I never hear of Scarlet Fever now. Wonder if there is a vaccine.
Nina wrote: "I never hear of Scarlet Fever now. Wonder if there is a vaccine."Nina, here's the Wiki link for Scarlet Fever:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarlet...
Among other things, it says:
==============================================
"There is no vaccine. Prevention is by frequent handwashing, not sharing personal items, and staying away from other people when sick. The disease is treatable with antibiotics which prevents most complications.[1] Outcomes with scarlet fever are typically good.[4] Long-term complications as a result of scarlet fever include: kidney disease, rheumatic heart disease, and arthritis.[1] It was a leading cause of death in children in the early 20th century"
==========================================
I'm way behind posting reviews, so here are a bunch.Nine Dragons by Michael Connelly is the 15th book in the Harry Bosch series, 19th for me since I put all his books into one chronology. As usual, it was great, especially the end. I gave it 4 stars in my review here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
I read a couple of short story books. Low Port edited by Sharon Lee was very good & interesting. It featured characters & areas that are usually only peripheral or supporting. It was mostly SF, but there were a few fantasy & general fiction stories, too. I gave it 4 stars in my review here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
After the Apocalypse by Maureen F. McHugh was good. I expected more SF, but she can really write characters & moods. Unfortunately, the thrust of her stories can be too vague at times. There were a couple of very good stories, though. I gave it 3 stars over all in my review here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
I bought several Fastback Mysteries by accident while trying to get books by Dan J. Marlowe. I read 2 more of them & liked them a lot. They're basically short stories in a little hardback book - cute. The Devlin Affair was an ex-FBI agent turned PI called back to do a job that goes sour. I gave it 4 stars in my review here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Comeback wasn't a mystery at all. It's about a baseball pitcher. I don't even like baseball, but the story was great. I gave it 4 stars in my review here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Jim wrote: "I'm way behind posting reviews, so here are a bunch. Nine Dragons by Michael Connelly is the 15th book in the Harry Bosch series, 19th for me since I put all his books..."Jim, thank you for your faithful postings to this GR group. I value your contributions.
Seeing all you have read makes me a bit guilty about how few books I've been reading. I'm also behind on my reviews. But at least I keep trying.
I'm currently listening to the following audiobooks via CDs from our library. (I keep several CD players in different rooms so I can listen when I'm in that room.)
Elizabeth the Queen: The Life of a Modern Monarch by Sally Bedell Smith
The Longest Trip Home: A Memoir by John Grogan
The Oregon Trail: A New American Journey by Rinker Buck
I'm also trying to finish reading a hard copy of: A God That Could Be Real: Spirituality, Science, and the Future of Our Planet by Nancy Abrams
I'm also trying to finish reading the following kindle books which are on my Fire Tablet:
Journey's End by Renee Ryan
and
Grace by Robert Lacey
I'll get there, sooner or later! LOL
After many deep reads I am enjoying "Chinese Kitchen," as it is fun to escape to China and "sit in" at the restaurants. It is a novel but al lot is about food and now it makes me want to go get Chinese fare. And Joy whenever if you ever do run out of things to read try, Object Lessons. It is set in the Bronx and Brooklyn and you might like it. Far better than "Brooklyn."
Nina wrote: "After many deep reads I am enjoying "Chinese Kitchen," as it is fun to escape to China and "sit in" at the restaurants. It is a novel but al lot is about food and now it makes me want to go get Chinese fare. ..."Nina, I can't find which Chinese Kitchen you mean. Who is the author?
You mentioned Object Lessons by Anna Quindlen. For some reason, I am not inclined to read anything by Quindlen. I browsed a free sample of her book, Every Last One, and didn't like it. It seems to be full of contemporary domestic details (author's specialty) which bore me. Not only that, I read a spoiler which revealed it to be a terribly sad story. I don't need to read anymore sad stories, especially if I don't like the author's style.
I just finished Born Under Mars by John Brunner. I gave it a 4 star review here:https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
That's a bit of a stretch, but I do think Brunner is an overlooked SF talent. I think I've read 3 of his books now, the other 2 being The Shockwave Rider & The Whole Man. I haven't read the latter in a long time, but gave the former a 4 star review back in 2008. It's here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Thanks for posting, Jim.
I just finished reading, as I mentioned, " by Ann Mah and then after finishing it I saw that her next book was "Mastering the Art of French Eating," and after ordering it I find that although the first book was a novel this second one is not. It is her real life and she mentions things from her Chinese novel. I can't say more in case you read the first one. This is something I have never come across before and I am not probably making sense so I should stop.
The above message doesn't make much sense as I couldn't add "Chinese Kitchen" after the word "reading." I have a problem with my goodreads account. I have trouble starting the comment to type something and when I try to edit it won't let me do it. Late tonight so I'll try again tomorrow or ask for help.
RE: Kitchen Chinese: A Novel About Food, Family, and Finding Yourself and Mastering the Art of French Eating: Lessons in Food and Love from a Year in Paris ---- both books by Ann MahNina, I probably won't read either book. The GR description says that Kitchen Chinese is like the book, Eat, Pray, Love by Elizabeth Gilbert. I didn't enjoy Gilbert's book at all. Here's my review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Nina wrote: "The above message doesn't make much sense as I couldn't add "Chinese Kitchen" after the word "reading." I have a problem with my goodreads account. I have trouble starting the comment to type somet..."Nina, perhaps your problem stems from the fact that the title of the book is "Kitchen Chinese", not "Chinese Kitchen".
Joy, I am not recommending the book to you but it is nothing like the Eat Pray Love book. I didn't like that one either. It is a novel and the other one wasn't. It does have quite a bit about food as the main character is an American Chinese young woman and she is working in Bejing as a restaurant reviewer for a magazine for expats. It was just kind of a fun book to read I thought as it is mostly about the relationship of two sisters living far from their home and although their is some love interest it is mostly about China dn
You are right Joy that the title is "Kitchen Chinese" rather than the other way around but my main problem is that I have problems with the cursor working when I try to add a comment. It takes a while for it to let me start and I am unable to use the Edit. So guess I'll have to get Goodreads help. I did verify my password so that wasn't the problem. That is why the letters dn are at the end of my last message. I can't delete them.
Nina wrote: "Joy, I am not recommending the book to you but it is nothing like the Eat Pray Love book. I didn't like that one either. It is a novel and the other one wasn't. It does have quite a bit about food ..."Nina, "the relationship of two sisters living far from their home" does sound interesting!
Nina wrote: "You are right Joy that the title is "Kitchen Chinese" rather than the other way around but my main problem is that I have problems with the cursor working when I try to add a comment. ..."Nina, I'm sorry to hear that you're having a technical problem. Those can certainly be very frustrating. Have you tried rebooting your computer? In other words, turn it off and turn it on again. Sometimes that clears things up.
Nothing worked that the Goodreads Help man suggested so I sent him another message. When I pressed on Edit all that came up on my screen was FOLLOW THIS MESSAGE/Discussion of get updates when people comment. Obviously, this was no help at all if I wanted to change a small letter to a large one as an example. However, my husband after trying all the man's suggestions, put me into a word processor mode and if I completely don't use the edit button I can make changes that I used to be able to do. Hope some of this makes sense to you. I at least can communicate. Some days I am discouraged with having problems with my Goodreads and wonder if it is all worth it. I do enjoy our daily comments but it does get frustrating.
I was very pleasantly surprised by Johnny D. Boggs' writing of West Texas Kill. I'm pretty hard to please when it comes to westerns, but he did everything write. I gave it 4 stars in my review here:https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Joy H. wrote: "Nina wrote: "Joy, I am not recommending the book to you but it is nothing like the Eat Pray Love book. I didn't like that one either. It is a novel and the other one wasn't. It does have quite a bi..."The girls are Chinese but born in America. Sometimes I skipped ahead when there was way too much food description but I enjoyed the ambiance of the place and the people.
But as I said before it was interesting to me that the next book was a non fiction written by this author and this time she is describing her life in Paris and she also is writing about food and mentioning the novel she had just written. It is kind of fascinating. Because I had never read anything quite like that before this. Have you? Except this is my first time.
I am anxious to see the movie, "Light Between the Oceans," as I loved that book. However, if you haven't read it Joy, it is sad so I won't recommend it to you. The movie reviewer said that the movie doesn't stand up to the book as it was so beautifully written it would be difficult to capture it on film. But that is usually the case. Isn't it?
Nina wrote: "Nothing worked that the Goodreads Help man suggested so I sent him another message. ... Some days I am discouraged with having problems with my Goodreads and wonder if it is all worth it. I do enjoy our daily comments but it does get frustrating. ..."Nina, I hope these difficulties will clear up for you. I too enjoy our daily comments.
Jim wrote: "I was very pleasantly surprised by Johnny D. Boggs' writing of West Texas Kill. I'm pretty hard to please when it comes to westerns, but he did everything write. I ga..."Jim, it's great when one finds an author one likes!
Nina wrote: "The girls are Chinese but born in America. Sometimes I skipped ahead when there was way too much food description but I enjoyed the ambiance of the place and the people. "It's OK to skip ahead, NIna. You reminded me of the Reader's Rights:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Readers have:
1. The right to not read.
2. The right to skip pages.
3. The right to not finish.
4. The right to reread.
5. The right to read anything.
6. The right to escapism.
7. The right to read anywhere.
8. The right to browse.
9. The right to read out loud.
10. The right not to defend your tastes.
—Pennac, Daniel, Better Than Life, Coach House Press, 1996
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nina wrote: ".... the next book was a non fiction written by this author and ... she also is writing about food and mentioning the novel she had just written .... Because I had never read anything quite like that before this. Have you? Except this is my first time.."No, Nina. I haven't experienced that sort of thing. It seems strange. Almost like deja vu! :)
Nina wrote: "I am anxious to see the movie, "Light Between the Oceans," as I loved that book. However, if you haven't read it Joy, it is sad so I won't recommend it to you. The movie reviewer said that the movi..."Nina, I heard about this new movie. I did read the book, The Light Between Oceans by M.L. Stedman. It was very sad but still it was interesting and kept me reading. Here's my review:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
As for seeing the movie, since I know the story, the movie may be anti-climactic for me. I'm wondering if they will milk the sad parts and make it seem melodramatic, as the book seemed to do.
I will probably like Michael Fassbender who plays the part of Tom Sherbourne. Fassbender did a good job playing Steve Jobs in the movie "Steve Jobs".
Here's the IMDb link to the movie info: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2547584/?...
The reviewer in our paper suggested seeing the movie if for nothing else if you have already read the book to see the outstanding scenery and that might motivate me to see it.
Nina wrote: "The reviewer in our paper suggested seeing the movie if for nothing else if you have already read the book to see the outstanding scenery and that might motivate me to see it."You can watch the trailer of "The Light Between Oceans" at the following link: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2547584/?...
Looks like a real tear-jerker.
Glens Falls (NY) Online Book Discussion Group
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Jim, it's great the way you get such pleasure from your reading. The enthusiasm in your review reflects your enjoyment.
Today I read a little bit more of A God That Could Be Real: Spirituality, Science, and the Future of Our Planet. It was interesting to wonder whether our brains and our minds are one and the same or different. Such speculation boggles my brain. Can consciousness be separated from the brain and kept "in storage"? Fun to think about but confusing too.
A new expression for me is: "Eternal inflation". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal...
OOOPS. I'd better get back to earth. It's too much to think about. lol