Space Opera Fans discussion
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Welcome Wagon & Rules
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Introduce Yourself - Part I
Hi everyoneI've been active on Goodreads for a couple of years now and really enjoy the site, but I haven't dabbled with any groups before now. This one looked interesting so I joined. Sounds like an interesting bunch of people. Anyway here's my introduction...
Name: Les Simkin
Favorite Books: Commonwealth Saga - Peter F. Hamilton, Old Man's War Universe - John Scalzi, Dogs of War - Frederick Forsyth, Honorverse stuff - David Weber
Favorite Genres: Military sci-fi, space opera, techno-thriller, military history
Favorite TV shows: Don't really watch TV. A bit of sport maybe
Favorite Movies: Star Wars (yes I like the new ones too), Lord of the Rings
Favorite Food: Indian, Chinese, Mexican - anything with lots of flavour but not too hot!
Day Job: Aircraft Technician (Mechanical)
Hobbies: Other than books, I love motorcycles and ride a lot. I currently have two bikes in my garage of which I ride one of them every day.
Other: From Christchurch, New Zealand, where I live with my wife and 3 sons, 2 cats and a dog. Our life has it's ups and downs but books and motorcycles help me to cope;-)
Les wrote: "Hi everyoneI've been active on Goodreads for a couple of years now and really enjoy the site, but I haven't dabbled with any groups before now. This one looked interesting so I joined. Sounds lik..."
Welcome Les! Sound like you're in the right place :-) Feel free to hop into any discussion that sounds interesting, or create a thread of your own!
Thanks Anna. I will be watching. Cheers.
Name: Ron BuckmireFavorite Books: Night's Dawn trilogy by Peter Hamilton, Takeshi Kovacs novels by Richard K. Morgan, The Prefect and Chasm City by Alastair Reynolds.
Favorite Genres: space opera, hard scifi, mystery thrillers
Favorite TV shows: Battlestar Galactica, Game of Thrones, Big Bang Theory
Favorite Movies: Inception, The Incredibles, Tell No One, The Fifth Element
Favorite Food: Caribbean/West Indian
Day Job: Mathematics professor
Hobbies: Chess, tennis,politics
Other:
Name: Jimmy SmithFavorite Books: Ooooh too many to mention. Do love Kevin J.Anderson's Sage of Seven Suns though
Favorite Genres: Sci-Fi, Fantasy
Favorite TV shows: Doctor Who, Suits, Arrow, Flash
Favorite Movies: Any of the Marvel Universe films
Favorite Food: Most foods :P
Day Job: Library Assistant
Hobbies: Reading, cooking, playing on my PS3, writing
Anna wrote: "Road trip with mother? Sounds like a horror movie, not space opera :-) And everybody survived? Do you need to send in a 'clean up' team anyplace to dispose of the evidence? :-)"Barely... it was a close call in Wyoming though.
Ronnie wrote: "Ohh Good grief! Don't start me on the "When you were two".Mum: "Do you remember being at St. Andrews?"
Me: *Opens mouth to speak*
Mum: "Oh, maybe not. You were only two.""
LOL! Reminds me of my mom at family reunions talking to others.
Mom: mumble ... mumble ... KIRSTEN ... mumble ... mumble
Aggravated me and my sibs!
Welcome Ron! Another Fifth Element fan ... yea! And it's been a long time since I got my hands on some authentic Caribbean food since I moved to where I live now, but yes, it's yummy!*********
Welcome Jimmy! Another Marvel geek? [*secret Stan Lee handshake*] Did you catch Guardians of the Galaxy yet? Awesome!
Guardians of the Galaxy rocked. Loaded with pop culture and sci-fi references. I had to stifle a laugh at the bounty.(view spoiler)
Paul wrote: "Guardians of the Galaxy rocked..."I've got all my kids trained to spot Stan Lee and some of the other Easter Eggs in the Marvel movies. Yup ... gonna put THAT movie on pre-order :-) I'm seriously thinking of going to the next ARISIA conference dressed as Lady Gamora one of the days.
Name: CoryFavorite Books: Foundation,The Robot Novels, Rendezvous With Rama, Glasshouse, Oryx & Crake, 1984.
Favorite Genres: Any kind of sci-fi and dystopian.
Favorite TV shows: Star Trek (old and new), That 70's Show, South Park.
Favorite Movies: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is my favorite. Plus lots of sci-fi or dystopian flicks.
Favorite Food: Hawaiian/Asian & Mexican
Day Job: Student
Hobbies: Skateboarding, traveling, learning German.
Other: I spend my time equally between Germany and the US.
Cory wrote: "Favorite Movies: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is my favorite..."Welcome Cory! Eternal Sunshine was such a bittersweet movie.
****************
Nimrodel wrote: "Favorite Movies: Star Wars, Blade Runner, LOTR, The famous Spaghetti Western movies by Sergio Leoni, The Book Thief, My neighbour Totoro...."
Welcome Nimrodel! Another spaghetti western fan, which if you read the history of Space Opera as a genre, the earliest versions were simply spaghetti westerns re-written in space :-)
My kids love My Neighbor Tortoro. It's a cute movie and one of the few I watched along with them and enjoyed.
Hello everyone. I've been lurking for about a week and decide to introduce myself.Name: Jeff Shank
Favorite Books:
So many. Here are the highlights.
* Man of War series by H. Paul Honsinger
* Theirs Not to Reason why series by Jean Johnson
* The Frontiers Saga series by Ryk Brown
* Ell Donsaii series by Laurence Dahners
* Vatta's War series by Elizabeth Moon
* Trader's Tales from the Golden Age of the Solar Clipper series by Nathan Lowell
* A Galaxy Unknown series by Thomas DePrima
* Many of the Kris Longknife books by Mike Shepherd
* Altered Carbon by Richard K. Morgan
Favorite Genres:
Military Sci-Fi seems to be my favorite. I have no idea if today's military is nearly as organized, but I love how in the books they have training programs, chains of command, and systems for defining everything. So different from the chaos in the workplace.
Favorite TV shows:
Stargate SG-1/Atlantis/Universe, Star Trek TNG/Voyager/DS9, Battlestar Galactica, Better Off Ted, IT Crowd, Coupling
Favorite Movies:
Avatar. Nothing else comes to mind.
Favorite Food:
Fettuccine Alfredo
Day Job:
Director of IT for a small software company.
Hobbies:
Reading and automating.
Other:
I'm fairly introverted so don't like to hang out with big groups so haven't had much luck with sci-if Meetups and the like. That being said, I do like making friends and think it would be great to make some here. After all, we all already have one interest in common (Space Opera). I bet some of us have other things in common, too. It'll be fun to find out.
Jeff wrote: "Favorite TV shows: Stargate SG-1/Atlantis/Universe, Star Trek TNG/Voyager/DS9, Battlestar Galactica..."Welcome Jeff! Don't worry about being an introvert. Most sci-fi fans tend to be a deep-thinking lot who only come out when they have something interesting to say. Check back at the threads and book clubs and just jump in on any conversation which intrigues you, or start your own :-)
Mod
Trader's Tales from the Golden Age of the Solar Clipper series by Nathan Lowell..."
So glad to see someone else is a fan of Ishmael Horatio Wang. I've wondered whether this would count as Space Opera. It's not military, but commercial space faring. Not even any real danger until the last of the series. But it's very good reading. Mostly character development. I love the whole series.
Name: Jon KoleFavorite Books: Ah, where to begin.
*Old Man's War series - One of, if not the best modern Sci-fi series.
*Redshirts - Hilarious for any Star Trek nerd.
*The Thrawn Trilogy - The greatest Star Wars series, and (at the time) a fitting sequel to the original trilogy movies.
*Saga of the Seven Suns series - Was a good read, especially if you like the science fantasy sort of sub-genre that Star Wars is often put in.
*The Forever War - I would say the definitive sci-fi and war novel.
*World War Z - The greatest version of a zombie apocalypse I have ever read/scene.
Favorite Genres:
Science Fiction - I am a total sci-fi nerd, who has probably spent far too much of his life dedicated to learning obscure Star Wars and Star Trek trivia.
Favorite TV shows:
*Star Trek - TNG/DS9/VOY/ENG
*Stargate - SG1/SGA/SGU
*Battlestar Galactica - Original and Re-imagined.
*Firefly - Shiny.
*Babylon 5 - What happens when novelists try to make a TV show as if it were a novel, and it was awesome.
*Farscape - Even though no one else watched it.
*Andromeda - It may not had a coherent story line, but I was young and it looked good.
*Doctor Who - Space-Wacey Goodness.
Favorite Movies:
*Star Trek - All of them, yes even the modern ones.
*Star Wars - Empire Strikes Back will forever be the greatest thing that ever happened to a movie screen.
*The Fifth Element - What a movie.
*Titan A.E. - Just about the greatest animated thing ever.
*John Carter - Even though no one else watched it.
*Serenity - Like a leaf on the wind.
Favorite Food:
Pizza. Enough said.
Day Job:
Retail.
Hobbies:
Video Games, reading, and writing.
Jon: "Farscape - Even though no one else watched it."Because it cannot be said enough, Season 3 and parts of Season 4 were some of the best SF ever on TV. Incredible, innovative, complex!! Best storytelling, bar none... So, you and me watched it ;-)
Jon wrote: "Farscape - Even though no one else watched it ... Andromeda - It may not had a coherent story line, but I was young and it looked good..."Yay! Another Farscape nerd! I own all four seasons plus The Peacekeeper Wars. And I liked Andromeda as well even though it was kinda corny.
Jon wrote: "Name: Jon KoleFavorite Books: Ah, where to begin.
*Old Man's War series - One of, if not the best modern Sci-fi series.
*Redshirts - Hilarious for any Star Trek nerd.
*The Thrawn Trilogy - The gr..."
I loved B5 - great arc, and it showed that humanity doesn't change much once it gets into space.
Name: Sam StigerFavorite Books: Oryx and Crake, Brave New World, anything Michael Crichton (except his late, late work. Sadly, he lost his touch) The Princess Bride, Faerie Wars, Project Pendulum…that's just a random selection. There are too many to list!
Favorite Genres: Science fiction, Fantasy, Young Adult, Historical Fiction. If it's a good story, I want to hear it, but I do prefer Science Fiction above all.
Favorite Movies: V for Vendetta is my favorite movie, as well as Braveheart, The Count of Monte Cristo, and LOTR
Hobbies: Running, Writing. I'm a new author.
Anna wrote: "Jon wrote: "Farscape - Even though no one else watched it ... Andromeda - It may not had a coherent story line, but I was young and it looked good..."Yay! Another Farscape nerd! I own all four s..."
Ah wow, I have very rarely found anyone who has even heard of Farscape let alone is a fan of it. It is very nice to meet the two of you! I really loved Farscape, the story was great, the characters were hilariously awesome, and some of the scenes were just amazing. I will never forget the hauntingly beautiful scenes of Scorpius' Command carrier slowly exploding, particularly the scene when he is just standing there wallowing in his defeat as explosions are going off around him and a waves of water are coming down behind him. Ah, such great television!
Kirsten wrote: "Jon wrote: "Name: Jon KoleFavorite Books: Ah, where to begin.
*Old Man's War series - One of, if not the best modern Sci-fi series.
*Redshirts - Hilarious for any Star Trek nerd.
*The Thrawn Tril..."
I loved B5 - great arc, and it showed that humanity doesn't change much once it gets into space.
Yep, Babylon 5 was such a great story. Sadly I think it suffered from people not getting attracted to it due to the low-end graphics. Particularly when shows like the *Cough* Rip off *Cough* Deep Space 9 were going on at the same time with far better graphics and a similar setup. It was really sad how they then treated the follow up series and movies. It seems like they tried to sabotage Crusade by showing it out of order, as if that as ever helped a series. And they didn't even give The Legend of the Rangers a chance by showing the pilot movie during the superbowl!
It seems like so much good sci-fi over years weren't given a chance and/or is sabotaged.
Looks like this is definitely a group full of genuine sci fi fan geeks and total nerds. B5, Farscape, Andromeda, DS9, BSG, Firefly, etc. Loved them all, though each for different reasons--all of which revolved around being a dedicated, hard science fiction nerd. Remember all those times you realized that no one knew what on Earth you were going on about when B5 dropped another major story arc bomb or when you weren't sure which Crighton clone you were rooting for this week? Still happens when I try to explain to someone what Orphan Black is about. Looks like we're all birds of a feather turning up here in droves lately. It's good to see.Now, who's excited to hear JMS is bringing a rebooted Babylon 5 to the big screen in 2016? (Me, I'll take more B5 any way I can get it.)
Sam wrote: "Favorite Movies: V for Vendetta is my favorite movie, as well as Braveheart, The Count of Monte Cristo..."I love the Count of Monte Cristo movie! And also the book, of course [*the abridged edition ... urf!*], but I enjoyed the movie better because a) it had Anthony Hopkins in it, and b) it has a HEA (happily ever after) which the book really doesn't have. It was, unfortunately, common in the 18th century for wealthy men to 'purchase' ottoman harem-girls for wives because they wanted a woman who would not be troublesome so the book diminished Edmond in my eyes. So ... movie version ... way better. And also because the movie keeps us in Edmonds head the entire time, while the book shifts to this annoying omniscient POV once Edmond gets off the island where we never get to feel what is going on inside his head as he plots the downfall of his enemies.
Ahh ... not space opera ... but in a way it was an early precursor to the expansive tales we all love. :-)
Jon wrote: "I will never forget the hauntingly beautiful scenes of Scorpius' Command carrier slowly exploding, particularly the scene when he is just standing there wallowing in his defeat as explosions are going off around him and a waves of water are coming down behind him. Ah, such great television!..."Did you hear they've purportedly got another post-series Farscape movie in the works? It allegedly features John and Aeryn's son, who has been raised on Earth to keep him away from the bad guys. Yea!
"It seems like so much good sci-fi over years weren't given a chance and/or is sabotaged..."
I agree. I finally stopped watching television completely after they killed off the Stargate and killed a couple of fledgling series off I was just getting into just as I started to fall in love with them. I got so disgusted I stopped watching and started writing my own stuff. I spend all my time here now instead of on the boob tube (in case people wonder where I find the time to moderate two communities :-).
Robert wrote: "Now, who's excited to hear JMS is bringing a rebooted Babylon 5 to the big screen in 2016? (Me, I'll take more B5 any way I can get it.)..."You must dig up some story sources and start a thread in the Space Opera Movie Tie-Ins folder, Robert, so all the B5 fans can go down there and hobnob as we catch tidbits and bits :-)
Hello, my name is Gabriel and I am basically completely new to sci-fi in terms of books. I really want to get into the genre and this seems like a great place to start looking for suggestions. Favorite Books: The Night Angel Trilogy and The Traveler's Gate Trilogy
Favorite Genres: Fantasy
Favorite TV shows: Dr. Who
Favorite Movies: Casino Royale
Day Job: College Student
Hobbies: Play video games, watch t.v shows, listen to music and read.
Gabriel wrote: "Hello, my name is Gabriel and I am basically completely new to sci-fi in terms of books. I really want to get into the genre and this seems like a great place to start looking for suggestions. Favorite Books: The Night Angel Trilogy and The Traveler's Gate Trilogy..."
Welcome Gabriel! Space Opera is a good 'bridge' genre between fantasy and sci-fi because everyone knows The Force is really magic :-)
So... You are into dark tales about assassins, eh? (Flashbacks to my favorite mashup movie my husband makes fun of that I rewatch, Priest).
I would suggest the sci-fi thriller Thirteen by Richard K. Morgan. Humanity has become too passive, so some mega-corporation cooks up a genetic throwback to all the most aggressive alpha-male traits as a kind of special forces soldier. I enjoyed this one immensely, and I think you may find the themes similar enough to make the leap from fantasy to sci-fi?
And ... welcome. Feel free to hop into any good geeky techno-thread that sparks your interest, or start your own space-opera related thread. Since you are into video games, note we have a Space Opera Gamer folder which I've been hoping to spark some interest, so if you have a favorite scifi video game, please do start a thread.
Anna wrote: Did you hear they've purportedly got another post-series Farscape movie in the works? It allegedly features John and Aeryn's son, who has been raised on Earth to keep him away from the bad guys. Yea!I did, apparently it will pick up after the comics. I just hope they don't screw it up, because it has the potential to be amazing.
Anna wrote: "It seems like so much good sci-fi over years weren't given a chance and/or is sabotaged..."
I agree. I finally stopped watching television completely after they killed off the Stargate and killed a couple of fledgling series off I was just getting into just as I started to fall in love with them. I got so disgusted I stopped watching and started writing my own stuff. I spend all my time here now instead of on the boob tube (in case people wonder where I find the time to moderate two communities :-).
Yeah, I have come close to doing that myself. But there are a few good to decent Sci-fi-like shows out there. Defiance and Falling Skies are pretty much all that is left on TV these days for Sci-fi, besides the new Doctor Who that is. Falling Skies being alien invasion, and Defiance being post apocalyptic post alien invasion. I have enjoyed Arrow and Agents of Shield, those are more comic book related though Agents of Shield does have a lot of sci-fi-y vibes to it. Almost Human was a good cop sci-fi show, but that got canceled after its first season. Beyond that the only things I watch on TV is Walking Dead and Game of Thrones.
Really wish they would bring back Star Trek, or something, anything!
Jon wrote: "Defiance and Falling Skies are pretty much all that is left on TV these days for Sci-fi, besides the new Doctor Who that is. Falling Skies being alien invasion, and Defiance being post apocalyptic post alien invasion..."I turned on the television for the first time in 3 years to watch the series opener of Defiance and then turned it right back off again. Nope. Wasn't impressed. Defiance was based off the movie Legion starring Paul Bettany and Kevin Duran which is a cult favorite. I've got a 550,000 word post-Legion fanfiction out there floating around somewhere out there in cyberspace about the post-apocalyptic wanderings of the Fallen Archangel Gabriel and my stuff is better than what syfy slapped together. Blurg! Don't mess with my cult favorites :-P
Yes. We always need a new Star Trek :-)
Anna wrote: "I turned on the television for the first time in 3 years to watch the series opener of Defiance and then turned it right back off again. Nope. Wasn't impressed. Defiance was based off the movie Legion starring Paul Bettany and Kevin Duran which is a cult favorite. I've got a 550,000 word post-Legion fanfiction out there floating around somewhere out there in cyberspace about the post-apocalyptic wanderings of the Fallen Archangel Gabriel and my stuff is better than what syfy slapped together. Blurg! Don't mess with my cult favorites :-P"No no no no, you are thinking of Dominion. And Yes, that is an assault on a person's eyes and mind.
Defiance is tied in with an MMO universe (of the same name), and is set in a non-religiously themed sci-fi universe. Where the premise is that an alien sleeper fleet arrives at earth after traveling for thousands of years, because their system was wiped out by some natural stellar disaster. Back when they were setting out on the trip, thousands of years ago, they spotted earth at long range and because that image itself was rather old they identified that the planet was habitable, but there were no higher life forms on it.
Cut to modern day, and the skeleton screw manning the alien sleeper fleet get to earth and respond with "What are you people doing here?" Humans begin a sort of peaceful negotiations with them, allowing small numbers of aliens to exit stasis and settled in a few middle of no where places like Brazil. But then, radical extremists from one of the sides (it isn't exactly known which) assassinate the top negotiators on both sides. Each side blames the other, and war breaks out.
During the war, 'something' causes all of the alien ships to either explode or just their reactors to be knocked out, which causes some of them to crash and unleash the terraforming tech that was being stored on them. The malfunctioning terraforming systems run wild all over the planet, changing the planet environmentally and mutating animals from earth and alien ones stored in DNA banks. This also wipes out 90% of everyone on the planet, kills every alien in stasis, and puts a ton of debris in orbit all with decaying orbits causing ships to randomly crash.
Cut to the beginning of the show, and the aliens and humans who have survived are forced to work together to prevent mutual extinction, and live in a post-apocalyptic heavily altered earth. The show is set in the town of Defiance, a frontier town in the former USA between any sort of organized faction. It also used to be St. Louis, but it was so heavily altered that nearly the entire city and surrounding terrain was destroyed.
It has a cowboy-ish frontier sort of vibe, with sci-fi elements, and a very rich and detailed background on everything. I have often compared it to being Firefly, minus the ship.
Jon wrote: "No no no no, you are thinking of Dominion. And Yes, that is an assault on a person's eyes and mind. Defiance is tied in with an MMO universe (of the same name), and is set in a non-religiously themed sci-fi universe..."Ahh! Yes! I stand corrected :-) Defiance, not Dominion. Why would SyFy put out two television shows with almost identical names? Blurg! Defiance sounds like exactly the kind of television show I'd watch if I still watched television. Perhaps I will pick up the entire series on blue-ray once it concludes and watch it with friends on a weekend binge? That is more my style these days. I don't like getting jerked around by television executives.
Hi everyone!My name is Nadia and it looks like this is the perfect group for me.
I love Sci-fi. I grew up with Star Wars and Star Trek and I have always been fascinated by space.
I only started reading sci-fi books two years ago. Before I was more Fantasy addicted.
I fell in love with the genre when someone suggested me to read the Honor Harrington series. I loved them.
And that was my end ;)
Thanks to my Kindle I also discovered plenty of amazing Indie authors and had some great adventures together with the caracthers.
BSG, Firefly, DW and Futurama are some of my fave tv shows :)
In July I attended my first ComiCon in Glasgow and I created my first Cosplay. I was Steadholder Harrington. It was such an amazing experience.
In three weeks I'll be back in Glasgow for Scotland's Comicon. Whoop! Whoop!
My mania has reached out to manga as well. I found out a great sci-fi manga called Knights of Sidonia. (I watched the Anime on Netflix as well)
Just wondering what will be next :)
Beside the above mentioned "madness" I also love nature, hiking and the outdoors. And Scotland it's just perfect for it.
Ah, I am also a language freak. I love learning foreign languages and at the moment I can speak 5 and I am learning a 6th one.
Perhaps Klingon next? :)
Well, I'll get back to browsing books.
See ya
Nadia
Scathach wrote: "Hi everyone!My name is Nadia and it looks like this is the perfect group for me..."
Hallo, a Nadia. Ciamar a tha thu? Failte!
[*and that is the full extent of my pathetic attempt to master a semester of Gaelic ... SEE ... I did use it for something useful*]
We've got some other Honor Harrigan fans here, so you'll be in good company. If you run across any remotely space-operish anime or manga books, movies or comics, be sure to open a thread under those sub-folders as I hope to encourage discussion of those mediums of space opera as well.
And ... I'm on the volunteer staff of ARISIA, or own local convention, and enjoy spending the con dressed up as some superhero or steampunk heroine or whatever sparks my fancy. So ... cosplay ... totally 'get' it :-)
[*eyes Lady Gamora outfit ... reminds self must stick to diet to fit into it :-) *]
Welcome to Space Opera Fans!
Hallo, a Anna!Glé mhath! :)
Thanks for the welcome, I feel at home already.
I had a wee browse at some of the open threads and they are very interesting. And I'll sure leave my contribution if I find something that might be of interest for the group :)
Thanks again for the welcome :)
Jon wrote: "Kirsten wrote: "Jon wrote: "Name: Jon KoleFavorite Books: Ah, where to begin.
*Old Man's War series - One of, if not the best modern Sci-fi series.
*Redshirts - Hilarious for any Star Trek nerd.
..."
B5 was so much better than DS9!
Kirsten wrote: B5 was so much better than DS9! Sorry, but I cannot let that comment stand. I enjoyed both shows very much. DS9 may have "borrowed" some concepts etc, but it (IMO)was more stylish and had much better actors and some really interesting story lines that went far beyond the borders of good vs evil (Federation vs Dominion). B5 was more "space opera", more serial, less complex (forces of light and dark). It was also one of the vanguards. One of the first really consistently good, world building, SciFi TV shows. But no, it was not "so much better" than DS9. It wasn't better than DS9 at all except on opposite world. (Just one really rabid DS9 fan girl's opinion).
You must have known someone would take those awful and false words to task... ;-)
Kirsten wrote: "B5 was so much better than DS9!"Yeah, the novel-esque story set to television was simply amazing. Awesome characters (We are one), great story, a very deep world that felt realistically possible. It is sad that the near sub-par graphics, not exactly great advertising campaign, a practically unheard of broadcasting channel, and the general popularity of Star Trek attached to a rip off of the concept doomed B5.
That said, I am also a Star Trek fan, and the last half of DS9 with the Dominion war was some of the best portrayals of real war inside a Sci-fi TV show. With the Episode "The Siege of AR-558" being a great example of that. Plus, the episode "In the Pale Moonlight" where they get the Romulans into the war, is one of my favorite espionage tales in TV Sci-fi. Oh, maybe I was one of the few who cheered when that Jem'Hadar ship rammed into the Galaxy-class during the pre-war episodes, but it was amazing!
I say both were good, B5 had slightly better overall story arcs, while DS9 had better action. And both had very good characters.
I have to say that DS9 was some of the best post-TOS Star Trek series out there. However, B5 showed humanity as it really was. It was arc driven storylines and very compelling.
Monica wrote: "Kirsten wrote: B5 was so much better than DS9! Sorry, but I cannot let that comment stand. I enjoyed both shows very much. DS9 may have "borrowed" some concepts etc, but it (IMO)was more stylish..."
Well the issue for me is that DS9 didn't so much "borrow" but "Steal". The company that owned the Star Trek licence was pitched B5 first, but they turned him down, and lead B5 ending up on PTEN. Then, that Star Trek owning company suddenly released DS9. The way B5 was pitched was that it would be a space opera focused on a space station rather than a starship, this way the show could save money because they didn't have to go some place different each week. While also the show could develop a rich story about where the station was and rather than constantly moving people and stories in and out, characters and stories could be more fully explored. And so the owners of Star Trek turned down B5, largely because they figured that it was a good idea but they didn't need to pay some other guy for a new franchise when they already owned a sci-fi franchise that they could simply deploy that guys ideas in.
As for the shows themselves, they are both good. But B5 had better stories, primarily because the writer was just better. Actually, the show went against tradition and the show's creator actually wrote most of the episodes which is probably why the story was so good and not too episodic. While DS9 simply had more money, they could buy very good actors, they could buy the best graphics, and they could buy a highly rated team of writers.
The success of one is largely a result of math, the success of the other is largely a result of the hard work of a single dedicated man and a ton of luck.
I'm just gonna throw my 2 cents in on this B5/DS9 topic because it's 2 of my all-time favorite sci fi shows, and I just can't resist.I have to say, I loved both shows.
B5 is the original, and is hands-down the one that my heart is closest to, though.
Most folks know the story of the connection between B5 and DS9, and I'm sure that Paramount looked at little JMS's sci fi pitch and some suit thought, "We could do that just as well inside our own sci fi franchise . . . doesn't this guy know who he's talking to here?" And DS9 was born. It's obvious. That aside, they hired writers to run with it, and they absolutely took that grittiness B5 was selling and wrote it into DS9, and it worked. Probably not all on the up-and-up, snaking JMS's idea and doing their own version, but they did it and they did it well. And, they made enough changes that JMS never sued.
Undeniably, you can see the themes from B5 that were ripped off that the Star Trek writers were told to run with during the course of DS9. Space station stays put, and aliens from all over come there to meet and do business and politics. (Admittedly, ANY show about a space station would probably be somewhat on this tip, though.) B5 was all about also being a commentary on the spiritual and the pseudo-spiritual, and in DS9 we had the wormhole aliens, worshiped by the local populace, but obviously "just" an advanced species in the end. Vorlons. An aggressive race, the Cardassians, attempts to dominate a less advanced race, the Bajorans, by brutal tactics. Centari and Narn. Eventually, even more advanced and brutal aliens, the Dominion, enter the scene and become a bigger problem; all out war breaks out. Vorlons vs Shadows vs younger races and recruited First Ones; all out war breaks out. Etc. I mean, you even had the late introduction of a special fighter developed with advanced tech just for the situation with the Defiant and Defiant-class warships (it was awesome to see the Defiant in action in a fire fight). White Stars.
B5's themes were approached and written with more complexity and with more commentary on things moral and apparently spiritual. In the end, they both really espoused a kind of secular humanist argument that the spiritual things encountered in their worlds were really kind of farcical and needed to be "outgrown" or realized for what they really were. JMS as much as said that was his own philosophy, though he tempered his feelings on this with the deaths of Andreas Katsulas and Richard Biggs, and one of the stories in the Lost Tales seemed be his expression of this. Star Trek has always been unabashedly a bastion of secular humanism and never has strayed far from that subtext.
As far the actors, Avery Brooks played two Captain Siskos. The one in the fantastic pilot for DS9, who was engaging and emotional, and the wooden guy that stood around on the futuristic sets for the rest of the show. Michael O'Hare was inconsistent, but at times really pulled off some dramatic dialogue and became eminently likeable and was missed by a lot of the fans after his departure--which was never in the original plan (JMS revealed the real reason for O'Hare's departure after years of lovingly covering for him and the illness that took him away from working on the show). Overall, B5 probably started off rougher and with less confident performances than DS9 did. Certainly, DS9 started off with a much more confident and exciting pilot. Of course DS9 had a whole world and back story the viewers were already familiar with and loved to spring off of. No matter it's pedigree, I still say DS9's pilot is one of the best pilots for a show, ever, and was certainly the most exciting Star Trek pilot episode produced. B5 had a lot more to bite off, and JMS admits he really dropped the ball with some parts of the original pilot for B5. Still, it launched a show that is now sci fi legend. It got my attention the day it aired, and I pined away for the series it hinted at until it actually showed up on TV in syndication one day!
B5 took more chances, expressed its complex commentary better, and created characters that grew and you absolutely loved because of their complexity, their frailties, and, at times, their heroism. DS9 created memorable characters you loved to spend time with each week. But the character growth for a Bashir or a Quark was nonexistent. Even recurring and side characters on B5 had arcs; you started out hating them and in the end loved them, or felt sympathy for them, or vice versa--or loved them, hated what they did, and still had sympathy for them. Londo, G'Kar, Sinclair, Sheridan, Delenn, Talia, Garibaldi, Vir, Lennier, Lyta, Ivanova, even Marcus--they all were designed for particular story arcs and tremendous character growth and change. DS9 presented us with Odo's arc and some lasting changes to Dax's character, and surprised and entertained with more nuanced and complex characters like Garak or even Rom and Nog (look where Rom ended up!), DS9 generally followed ST:TNG's approach to characters, though, which was to create character studies and place them in new situations and have them play their parts out. And though Benjamin Sisko did move from Captain to Wormhole Resident, he was pretty much always Sisko (and far too often played rather woodenly by a guy who I think could have done better with the character if he either really cared to--or maybe had better direction).
B5, of course, was a seminal work for it's CGI use, which was award-winning and ground-breaking at the time (though dated when seen today). B5 had some of Star Trek's aliens-are-humans-with-weird-bumps-on-their-heads, but it also consistently utilized massive amounts of prosthetic work to great affect, had much more engaging and complex costume design. It even employed some animatronic work and embraced non-oxygen breathers and some non-humanoid designs in a way Star Trek consistently failed to. Both shows worked hard to bring us a futuristic world with aliens and space ships and technobabble. One just pushed the envelope harder. B5 used more hard science in the designs of their Starfury fighters and atmosphere-capable Thunderbolts, and in the design of the Babylon stations themselves (recall their relationship with the guys from JPL).
No one should give short shrift to either series, as they both had their brilliant moments and engaging characters.
Me, I really like DS9, own the whole thing on DVD, and watch it though with a big, happy smirk on my face from time to time. I truly love B5, own the whole thing on DVD, and watch it through with a warm, fuzzy feeling of coming home. I'm not ashamed to say I teared up during the final scenes of B5. DS9 affected me at times, I really have a soft spot for the show and some of its iconic characters, and it's my favorite Star Trek iteration, but it never moved me like B5 or impressed me with its sheer innovation, balls, and heart like B5 did.
Guess that turned out to be more like 2 bucks' worth, but, where else am I gonna let this stuff out if not on a board like this?
Now I've got a hankering to buy BOTH series on blue-ray and go on a week long binge. :-) I watched a lot more DS9 than B5, but that was more a function of available time and crappy old-fashioned television reception than an up- or down-vote on either show.
Anna wrote: "Now I've got a hankering to buy BOTH series on blue-ray and go on a week long binge. :-) I watched a lot more DS9 than B5, but that was more a function of available time and crappy old-fashioned t..."That would be my perfect vacation!!! If only it was possible.
Still, wait and see if DS9 gets announced as coming out on Blu once the last season of TNG comes out if you can. If they're doing it, I wouldn't be surprised if they let us know that's on deck with the release of the 7th season of TNG. It is a sure-fire way to separate me from another several hundred of my dollars in the near future, at least. I've actually been wondering what the hold-up is on releasing the last season. The first 6 seasons came out pretty quickly, one after the other (for Paramount). I have been secretly hoping a DS9 announcement was in the works. Paramount really tweaked everyone with that tweet they released (https://twitter.com/CBSHE/status/4695...). This article is pretty exciting, but doesn't make it seem like its a lock to happen (http://www.nerdist.com/2014/06/exclus...).
B5 isn't coming out on Blu ever, I'd wager. The one show I would kill to see in HD, too. I said earlier somewhere that I doubt they filmed it in 35mm, but I have since researched that, and they actually used Super 35mm, but Warner's basically trashed or lost the negatives--they even had to use the PAL (576i resolution) versions to create the North American DVDs! The CGI was always 4:3, though, even though the show was shot widescreen and then cropped down for initial broadcasts.
There's no great place to stream B5 from right now for cheap, so I'd go for the DVDs. You can probably get the whole run on eBay for less than it would cost you to "buy" the seasons on Amazon Instant Video. (A season on Amazon is like $30, but all five seasons in a set go for somewhere between $50 and about $100 on eBay lately.)
You can totally stream DS9 if you want to, though, on Netflix.
What a wild ride it would be to watch either one (but especially B5 for the first time through from the start). You should seek out the Movies set, too. The pilot (JMS's preferred, renovated version) and the excellent In The Beginning movies are in the set. The other movies I really just look at as extra episodes, and they are really great for that (probably not really feature movie level as stand-alone productions; more for the B5 fan to just get a little more B5 on TNT's dime).
Heh-heh...Heh-heh-heh...
My local library has all four seasons of Babylon 5 available for me to borrow for FREE :-) The only thing I'd need to scrounge up is the movies, which I believe are separate.
They don't have DS9, though :-( I caught a lot more of those shows, usually between grad school semesters when I wasn't also tied up at work.
Now all I need is time. Didn't have any then. Don't have any now. What I really need is a Tardis (and maybe all 12 Doctors on blu-ray). :-)
Looks like lots of passion for B5. I admit that when it was on, I loved it. But my love for DS9 was strong enough for me to buy the DVDs. Seasons 1-3 of any of the Star Trek universes are usually pretty bad. But around season 4, the DS9 universe got interesting. I look for depth, concepts that make me think. For me there was a lot more going on in DS9 than a battle for good vs evil. One episode I really liked was the one that implied that the whole series was an idea in the mind of a man in the 1940s in an insane asylum. The DS9 universe was messy and oftentimes required the watcher to make their own judgments. No one was super good or bad. Sisko had issues, Kira had issues, Odo had issues, Dr Bashir had issues, Garrick had issues etc. Plus they had some really messed up civilizations and religions, lots of politics and intrigue. The more complex the characters and the situation, the better I liked it. And oh if it requires that a value judgments to be made, I don't want it to be obvious. I don't remember B5 making me work that hard to figure out who was good etc. I like complex (if ultimately it makes sense and makes the plot interesting). Simply put, DS9 worked more for me all the way around. As for the emotional impact. Different strokes. DS9 was for me by far the most affecting. I loved B5 and it was the first but I was no where near as emotionally attached. But I did love Girabaldi and Ivanova. John said: "Well the issue for me is that DS9 didn't so much "borrow" but "Steal"
While I am willfully ignorant of all of the behind the scenes machinations that went on about B5 vs DS9 and their origins, my guess is that JMS is not the arbiter of the original idea. To me the concept of a space station that is a beacon to the rest of the universe for peace (and resupply, and repair and rest and relaxation), is really an extrapolation of models of existing military structure to outer space.
Monica wrote: "Looks like lots of passion for B5. I admit that when it was on, I loved it. But my love for DS9 was strong enough for me to buy the DVDs. Seasons 1-3 of any of the Star Trek universes are usually ..."Well thats the thing, they are different enough to be liked by different people for different reasons. B5 really is a novel set to television, while DS9 is a far more traditional television show. And so because of that they each have ups and downs, and strengths and weaknesses that are not entirely shared.
For B5, G'Kar is one of the most inspiring characters in any work of fiction that I have read/watched. Frankly, I still say that his 'We are one' speech is one of the most amazing things I have ever heard in Sci-fi, and will always be relevant. The story of Londo is an amazing depiction of a character falling and failing, rather than rising up and succeeding, and it is a masterpiece. How Garibaldi runs a company should be how all companies are run. Kosh was thought provoking and funny. The small scene where a judge determines that what looks like a classical 'grey' alien must pay reparations to a human, because the grey's ancestor performed illegal medical operations on the human's ancestor was just pure awesomeness. And finally, the death scene for Refa was at the same time joyous, funny, dark, grim, gruesome, and satisfying.
For DS9, the dominion war had some of the most realistic depictions of war in a space opera. The massive battle scenes were amazing, and a delight to most Star Trek fans who had previously spent large battles simply watching the bridge crew and hearing the action happen. It was nice seeing more Klingon drama. Quark and Garak were two of the best characters in the show. They vastly improved just about any scene they were in, and really added a non-human depth that most of Star Trek suffered the lack of. The Story of the Bajorians and Cardassians was also interesting, and a nice Sci-fi portrayal of certain historical events that young people might easily forget. But unlike B5, DS9 had no real clear long term story arcs with set and pre-determined goals. While sure, there was the Dominion war, it wasn't universally portrayed int he same light among all the writers. And what they did to Dukat in the final season made me not only want to rip out my own hair, but go find the show runner and rip out his hair as well!
Anna wrote: "My local library has all four seasons ..."I just re-read that. Your library has all FIVE seasons, right?? (Then the movies is another set.)
Robert wrote: "Anna wrote: "My local library has all four seasons ..."I just re-read that. Your library has all FIVE seasons, right?? (Then the movies is another set.)"
Urf. Spoilsport :-P You just ruined a perfectly good gloat...
Name: Lynda WilliamsFavorite books: way too hard to list, read eclectically
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