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I'm doing a reread of the Enchanted Forest Chronicles by Patricia Wrede. Love these books!<3,
-J
Kayci wrote: I'm about to start that book too. I'm also plodding along at The Mists of Avalon. It's a good book, but hard to get anywhere with..."
Keep at it, it's worth it.
Well, I've just finished "The Garden of Rama" (better than Rama II), and will be reading "Rama Revealed" in the next month or so. Meantime, I've added another "cleanse my palate" collection of short stories, "The Best of Amazing," edited by Joseph Ross. Also started "A Storm of Swords" a few days ago. All of this keeps me off the streets but not necessarily out of trouble...
Swan Song...holy cow, good book. Wonderful writing, very dark, brutally straight forward. Not for the squeamish.
I have just started The Lord of the Rings. (:
Curmudgeon wrote: "Swan Song...holy cow, good book. Wonderful writing, very dark, brutally straight forward. Not for the squeamish."Ah so it is Swan Song by RobertR McCammon that you are reading, the link on your last post had me fooled, it took me to Swan Song by Brian M. Stableford.
I bought Swan Song a while back after hearing good things about it, but I've been hesitant to start it.
I don't mind tragedy and I'm not particularly squeamish but I usually need a least one character I can care about.
In your opinion where there any sympathetic characters?.
Also how does it compare to The Walking Dead?.
I just finished re-reading the Harry Potter series. still good the second time.
Gavin wrote: "Curmudgeon wrote: "Swan Song...holy cow, good book. Wonderful writing, very dark, brutally straight forward. Not for the squeamish."Ah so it is Swan Song by RobertR McCammon that you are reading..."
I may be an old softie inside this crusty crabby shell of curmugeony-gripiness but, I care about all of the main characters and a lot of the perifery. For a book that's so long, nearly a thousand pages, McGammon seems to be able to instill woderful character in a few short lines. They are under tragic circumstances for certain but yes, likeable characters...even the ones you don't like.
Curmudgeon wrote: "They are under tragic circumstances for certain but yes, likeable characters...even the ones you don't like."
That's a relief.
You have probably advanced this book a good decade up my to-read pile.
Many thanks.
I think my next book will be Way of Kings by Brandon Sanderson or maybe Paladin of Souls by Lois McMaster Bujold or Catching Fire by Suzanne Collins.
It's always difficult to decide what should be next.
Gavin wrote: "Curmudgeon wrote: "They are under tragic circumstances for certain but yes, likeable characters...even the ones you don't like."
That's a relief.
You have probably advanced this book a good dec..."
You are welcome. I have sat on Swan Song for a long time before reading it...(like...20 years?) but, it didn't disappoint when I read it...other than how long it took to get to it, that is.
I am reading Under A Never Sky, it's well written. I'm reading it for the Mock Printz event at the library I work for.
Tyrone wrote: "i'm just thinking of embarking upon Lucifer's Hammer."Sop thinking, start doing! It's great - you won't regret it.
Jeannette wrote: "Tyrone wrote: "i'm just thinking of embarking upon Lucifer's Hammer."Sop thinking, start doing! It's great - you won't regret it."
Yes, I've always been a Niven & Pournelle fan, but Lucifer's Hammer is my favorite of their collaborations.
Derek wrote: "Jeannette wrote: "Tyrone wrote: "i'm just thinking of embarking upon Lucifer's Hammer."Sop thinking, start doing! It's great - you won't regret it."
Yes, I've always been a Niven &..."
Years ago I read "The Mote in God's Eye," which I thoroughly enjoyed. Since then, I've discovered that it is part a larger series, which I plan to research and read. Is "Lucifer's Hammer" one of those?
Years ago I read "The Mote in God's Eye," which I thoroughly enjoyed. Since then, I've discovered that it is part a larger series, which I plan to research and read. Is "Lucifer's Hammer" one of those?No, it is not. The others are
King Davids Spaceship, Prince of Mercenaries, Falkenberg's Legion, Go Tell the Spartans, Prince of Sparta, The Gripping Hand, the War World books, starting with The Burning Eye, and Outies. Only The Mote in God's Eye and The Gripping Hand were Niven/Pournelle collaborations.
Thanks Jeanette! Those titles all go on my "To Read" list!
Jeannette wrote: "Years ago I read "The Mote in God's Eye," which I thoroughly enjoyed. Since then, I've discovered that it is part a larger series, which I plan to research and read. Is "Lucifer's Hammer" one of th..."Most of those are only "set in the same universe", iirc. The Gripping Hand is the sequel, but I thought there was a third.
Not reading science fiction or fantasy in any of their myriad subgenres, although I believe there is a ghost in Bleak House
Most of those are only "set in the same universe", iirc. The Gripping Hand is the sequel, but I thought there was a third. The Gripping Hand also went by another name, The Moat Around Murcheson's Eye. That may be what you are thinking of.
Jeannette wrote: "Most of those are only "set in the same universe", iirc. The Gripping Hand is the sequel, but I thought there was a third. The Gripping Hand also went by another name, [book:The Mo..."
According to Wikipedia,.."In December, 2010, with Niven and Pournelle's authorization, Pournelle's daughter, J. R. Pournelle, released a second sequel, entitled Outies, written in part to address issues raised by critics of the earlier works."
Jeannette wrote: "Most of those are only "set in the same universe", iirc. The Gripping Hand is the sequel, but I thought there was a third. The Gripping Hand also went by another name, The Moat Around Murcheson's Eye..."
Ah! That's exactly what I was thinking. Given how bad I am at remembering books I've only read once, I probably read them both and never realized I was reading the same book again :-)
I have finished Way of Kings by Brandon Sanderson. It's no exaggeration to say it's now one of my favorite books of all time.I'm now reading Catching Fire by Suzanne Collins. I liked the first book in The Hunger Games trilogy and see no reason why I won't enjoy the next two.
Curmudgeon wrote: "I finished Swan Song (McGammon) and started Monster Hunter International by Larry Correia"
Had never heard of Monster Hunter International, but it sounds good. Another one for the to-read list.
Gavin wrote: "I have finished Way of Kings by Brandon Sanderson. It's no exaggeration to say it's now one of my favorite books of all time.I'm now reading Catching Fire by Suzanne Collins. I liked the first book in The Hunger Games trilogy and see no reason why I won't enjoy the next two...."
LOL. "Damned with faint praise"... That sounds so much like my feelings about
The Hunger Games, but the difference is that I have so much on my to-read list that I may never get around to Catching Fire.
Brandon Sanderson sounds like I should like him, but he has two strikes against him - he got tied up in The Wheel of Time, and I read a review of Gardens of the Moon in which he apparently recommended to the reviewer starting that series with book 2, which seems mind-bogglingly stupid to me. If you don't like the first book (and many didn't - it seems polarizing), you'll only be worse starting at book 2.
Just started "Rama Revealed," the fourth and final novel in Arthur C. Clarke's (and Gentry Lee's for the last three) "Rama" series. Part of me is bored with the whole thing, but another wants to find out just who these Ramans are and what their purpose is in observing all these intergalactic species is (nefarious? Humanitarian? Both?) So here we go, will letcha know what I think.
Derek wrote: "Brandon Sanderson sounds like I should like him, but he has two strikes against him - he got tied up in The Wheel of Time, and I read a review of Gardens of the Moon in which he apparently recommended to the reviewer starting that series with book 2, which seems mind-bogglingly stupid to me. If you don't like the first book (and many didn't - it seems polarizing), you'll only be worse starting at book 2. "Sanderson really recommended starting the Malazan series at book two?. The series was confusing enough without skipping book one. I'm also of the opinion that most of the books in the series were of a similar quality, so I would be surprised if anyone who disliked Gardens of the Moon enjoyed the rest of the series.
I find that when it comes to an authors personal opinions or interviews, ignorance really is bliss. I sometimes wonder if these guys are trying to put you off their work!.
The last book in Wheel of Time is due to be published in January of next year. So crazed personal opinions aside, now seems like a good time to give Sanderson's books a chance.
I find that I have a short span of time to read books from the same series. The more time between books the less likely I am to ever go back to the series. So it's now or never for the rest of The Hunger Games books.
Just come off a run of two Post Apocalyptic novels and two urban fantasies (Far North & Lucifer's Hammer and Storm Front & Moon Over Soho) i was looking for something totally different and fresh. Any suggestions?
Gavin wrote: "Sanderson really recommended starting the Malazan series at book two?... The last book in Wheel of Time is due to be published in January of next year. So crazed personal opinions aside, now seems like a good time to give Sanderson's books a chance. I find that I have a short span of time to read books from the same series. The more time between books the less likely I am to ever go back to the series. So it's now or never for the rest of The Hunger Games books. "
Well, I only have a GR reader's word that Sanderson made that recommendation (this review), but have you ever met a more honest group of people? :-)
I completely agree with you about that window of opportunity - which is why I won't be reading Sanderson's contributions to Wheel of Time: that window closed for me while Jordan was still alive. I may still get to the rest of the Hunger Games, but I just expect other things will grab me first. I've put The Way of Kings on my to-read list and I'll probably get to it before the rest of Hunger Games :-) [dammit! I swore - no more 1000 page novels!!!! - and I swear I'll hunt you down if it turns into a 15-volume monstrosity that needs somebody else to finish!]
Tyrone wrote: "Just come off a run of two Post Apocalyptic novels and two urban fantasies (Far North & Lucifer's Hammer and Storm Front & Moon Over Soho) i was looking for something totally different and fresh. A..."
I'm reading The Flame Alphabet (less than 300 pages) right now. It might reasonably be described as an apocalyptic urban fantasy. It's certainly different and fresh - I'm not yet prepared to declare it good!
Not really reading Sci-Fi right now, but 2 books I read about 30 years ago...actually I read one of them almost 40 years ago...The Christ Commission
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/43...
The Teachings of Don Juan:A Yaqui Way of Knowledge
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/78...
The last 2 good sci-fi/fantasy books I read were
The Twelve
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13...
Something Red
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13...
ReoDon wrote: "Not really reading Sci-Fi right now, but 2 books I read about 30 years ago...actually I read one of them almost 40 years ago...The Christ Commission"
Hmm. I love this sort of book. And when you put it with Casteneda, it seems even more interesting. I have fun with Casteneda: I have all of the Don Juan books, and file them as fantasy, but my wife keeps wanting to put them in non-fiction. I'm prepared to believe that they might be "truth as he saw it", but I mostly insist on putting them in fantasy to tease my wife.
On my Kindle - New Hope City extemely depressing dystopiaPrinted Pages - War in Heaven violent fr future high tech
Audiobook - Infidel bugpunk and one of my all time favorites. This is book 2 of the Bel Dame Apocrypha
Derek wrote: "ReoDon wrote: "Not really reading Sci-Fi right now, but 2 books I read about 30 years ago...actually I read one of them almost 40 years ago...The Christ Commission"
Hmm. I love this sort of book..."
Yeah...that's kinda funny filing Casteneda under fantasy...Now that I'm re-reading it...it seems a little less mystical maybe and more like he's just trying out hallucinogenic drugs and reporting his trips. But...back in the day...who knew???
I just finished "The Man-Kzin Wars" as a sort of sequel to reading "Ringworld." I will be purchasing the rest of the innumerable "Man Kzin Wars" books and will read them alternating with the "Ringworld" books (as of now I will be starting "The Ringworld Engineers"). After that will be "Rite of Passage."
The Moon Is Not For Sale by Wallace Provost - Book ReviewLand, society and how things could be
Annabelle Taylor (Annie) and Clint Baker are thrown together in the middle of an asteroid shower on the Moon. Lunar City, for the moment, is in chaos, offering only very cramped, bored and squalid conditions until the next shuttle arrives in two weeks time. Annie is only a temporary worker on the Moon having gone there to pick up easy credits for her law degree, but Clint is a “Luney”, that is, he was born on the moon. Clint decides it is best to take Annie with him to his family home, Moondogy Ranch, which is a few days drive away by very rough road. The ranch is located in a huge cavern, which is sealed off from the outside to protect it against the solar radiation and the extremes of temperature. Annie feels stirrings of emotion for Clint, but her plans for her life do not include being a farmer’s wife, much less one who lives on the Moon. Annie is a Cherokee Indian and very much intends to become a lawyer so she can advance the standing of her people. What direction will Annie’s life take, and indeed what direction will events in the pioneer Looney civilization take?
The Moon Is Not For Sale is Wallace Provost’s first novel and is a very amiable book, full of adventure. It is written in the hard science style, which is to say it is based on science fact, current science theory and logical projections from today’s widely held science concepts. Provost holds a Masters Degree in the philosophy of science, and a second Masters in sociology. Not surprisingly the novel also contains speculations about the nature of society and the possibilities of future societies. At its heart this is a book for those who like to imagine and dream, and for those who like people.
Provost’s novel is very much about frontier life on the Moon and suitably the style has a hint of the back-woods, fire-side tale. The voice is very chatty and we feel we are perhaps listening to our uncle or grandfather tell us about people he knows. Each new character, for example, is introduced by a short yarn which reveals something of their history and personality. This helps to make the book warm and friendly and we immediately feel at home. Along the way there are several surprise endings which spur us to read on. There are occasional moments of real irony, such as the “jungle drum music” (p. 153) in Chapter 18, where patrons of the “Haven of Evil” lasciviously prepare to watch a truly gratuitous spectacle. This very much contrasts with the previous chapter in which Kwame Nkuomo, a Gahanna engineer, beats his jungle drum while remorsefully contemplating the terrible consequences of a failed project which he helped to initiate. The philosophical ethics of the first chapter bitingly contrasts with the degradation of the next.
This book has an unusual plot structure. The first half of the novel follows Annie as she rises in the world and has to deal with various complications, such as a possible romance with Clint and even a plot to kill her. In the second half of the book the plot diverges into various stories, many of which are centred on the development of the moon colony. We read of, for example, the establishment of a number of new settlements. In this second half there is still a plot line related to Annie, however, she does not take centre stage. One criticism of Provost’s book is that this second half is unnecessarily repetitive. There is, for example, a second attempt to kill Annie. In the first half Black Horse Jones, Cherokee Indian ‘big man’ and Annie’s long standing enemy, is the individual who wants Annie dead. In the second half Injun Joe Bristow, also a Cherokee Indian ‘big man’, is the assassination schemer. Once again in the first half we read the story of the establishment of the city of Inyanga by dispossessed Zulus. In the second half of the book we read of the establishment of Helium City by Indians from the slums of Mumbai, and then again the story of the establishment of the village of Xi Hue by oppressed immigrants from Tibet. This is basically the same plot idea repeated. Finally in the second half we read the three stories of Mike Riggs, Monty Wilson and Art Anderson, all of who are temporary immigrants to the moon and all of who meet and marry Indian ‘Luneys’ in Helium City. These stories come in so close proximity that we cannot help noticing the repetition. A related problem to this is that, without Annie taking centre stage, there is less to tie the various plot developments together. As a result this second half of the book is too diffuse. This is not to say that the last half is totally boring: it is interesting but over extended. Viewed as a whole the novel certainly works.
The characterization is one of the novels strongest points. Provost has a way of capturing people in a few words and making us feel that we understand them. Annie is outspoken and ambitious in a level headed, likable way and we are immediately on her side. Provost has also given her a little mystery. We wonder why she feels the first trip to Moondogy Ranch is such a “trap.” (Ch. 4) The introductory character studies, which have already been mentioned, are certainly one of the highlights of the book. This is, however, very much a story about one person. Provost has given us a stage full of characters, but he does not really develop any of them except Annie. Even Clint is not depicted in any depth, or as growing in any way. The novel would have benefited from having just one more character explored in detail. I do not wish, though, to overstate this point. The Moon Is Not For Sale is quite readable and enjoyable.
Provosts novel is mainly action and adventure, but there is just a little symbolism. The asteroid shower in Chapter 1, for example, is a highly ironic symbol commenting on capitalist society. Lunar City’s huge roulette wheel, which is a monument to the grad vision of the Moon’s casino, is smashed to pieces. What was meant to last “forever” (Ch.7, p. 49) is in ruins. Provost is not at all liberal, heavy handed or obvious with this symbolism, so don’t expect a gratuitously ‘poetic’ book, but just a little imagery is there if you look for it.
The Moon Is Not For Sale is about frontier life and the theme of individualism, ingenuity and free thinking is very prominent. This pioneer spirit existed in the U. S. when it was first being explored and colonized, and also in Australia at a similar point in its history. When nothing exists to rely on individuals have to fall back on their own resources and ideas. As a result new types of society can emerge. Along similar lines the question of ‘What is success?’ is examined in some detail. Our society says that money, property and social status mean success, but is that really so? Aren’t our own personal goals very important in defining us as a success, and are these necessarily the targets suggested by society? Provost’s characterization of Annie very much delves into this theme of success. Friendship and pairing into couples also features strongly in the novel. What makes us happy and what helps us through life? Sure bonding is at least part of the answer. Bonding is a very basic human need and Provost depicts it both light-heartedly and also with a little philosophic depth.
As we have noted in the paragraph above, the book has a lot to do with society. On the Moon private ownership of land is banned. The Capitalist/Marxist debate therefore features strongly in the novel, though it should be noted that Provost is not in any way advocating totalitarian communism, which Marx himself would have been quite horrified by. (Gill Hands. Understanding Marx: Hodder Education, 2011, p. 79-83) As Hands writes: “The Soviet Union was ostensibly a Marxist-Leninist regime under … [Stalin’s] … rule but this was nothing like the society envisaged by Marx or Lenin.” (p. 83) Indeed in Provost’s novel in Ch. 46 the Tibetans, who have lived under communist Chinese rule, find it very hard to believe that on the Moon business is run to very much benefit ordinary workers. (p.264-265) Provost notes, as Marx did, that Capitalism encourages an aggrandizing self-ambition almost like a fetish. (Hand, p. 46-49) In Chapter 7 Provost depicts Fuller, the original owner of Lunar City casino, as exactly such a fetish driven man, and indeed there are quite a few examples of similar men in the book. The importance of power in Capitalism, as noted by Marx (Hand, Ch. 3 & p. 59), is also noted by Provost. In Chapter 9, 10 and 11` we read of Annie being wary of and avoiding ‘men in black suits.’ Marx, of course, observed that whole classes of people are enslaved by the few (Hand, p. 51-53), and indeed that whole nations can be oppressed by the Capitalist elite (Hand, p.44-46). As we have seen, the history of oppressed peoples such as the Zulu’s and the Indian poor is highlighted. Most notably Provost explores in depth the Marxist point of the ownership of land and the resulting enslavement of people. (Provost. Ch.21, p. 165-166 for example, & for Marxism Rius. Introducing Marx: Icon Books, 1999, p. 117-118) It should be noted, however, that Provost is not saying that the proto-Marxist society of the Moon is a seamless paradise. Unemployment is noted. (Ch. 37, p. 242) It is also noted that capitalist competition and land ownership are strong drivers of growth. (Ch. 42, p. 251-252)
From the perspective of post-colonialism the Moon Is Not For Sale is full of successful, educated and independent (self-empowered) characters from the ‘third world.’ Provost makes a special point of noting the oppressed state of the Zulus and their need for freedom (Ch. 40, p. 247). In one interesting passage (Ch. 23, p. 178) Provost notes that originally nomad people had no need for the ownership of land. ‘Indigenous’ people, for him, have a wisdom from which we as ‘advanced’ society may be able to benefit. As the plot progresses there are also a number of successful East/West relationships as ‘ordinary’ workers meet and mix on the Moon. (Ch. 33, 36, 38) There is no bigoted fear of ‘mixed marriages’ here. As with Marxism though, here too the picture is not patronisingly ideal. The Ecuadorian owners of the unprofitable Titanium mine on the Moon decide to simply shut down the operation, abandoning the workers to die of starvation or thirst in isolation. Obviously those in the third world are not all model characters.
Indigenous North American Indians play a special role in the novel, but here once again Provost takes a balanced approach. There are two Cherokee lawyers, Annie and her uncle Bradley Hays, but there are also the two previously mentioned Cherokee villains, Jones and Joe. Provost does, however, take a mainly positive approach. From this positive perspective Cherokees are depicted as having skills of value. One Cherokee character, an old woman living a traditional life in the woods, is depicted as having very keen, almost intuitive observation skills, much more than a white Westerner would. (p.72-73) The bigotry which North American Indians face is also depicted. In one very telling scene Mina and Robert Lowrey discuss with moral indignation the “Haven of Evil” which the new Cherokee owners of the Lunar City casino have set up, completely ignoring the “snuggle tunnel” which the previous white owners provided for their customers.
The gay characters Evan Williams and Ralph Burns make brief positive appearances (Ch. 8, p 58-62), as do the lesbian characters Glenda Trilling and Marsha Mayberry. (Ch. 50)
Provost has made a special effort to portray women positively and the plot has many intelligent working women. Antonia Vilafiana, for example, is Mayor of Lunar City at the age of just 22 years. In Chapter 51 (p.289) female contestants in the first “Pan Lunar Games” take a starring roll defeating male contestants.
Could you not have actually provided a book link: The Moon Is Not for Sale? Especially since you've posted this review there, anyway. You've spammed this same post to five of my groups. That makes me notably less likely to actually read it.
Of course not everybody is in a lot of groups, but I like your idea of a link.
Raymond wrote: "Of course not everybody is in a lot of groups, but I like your idea of a link."No, but that's the problem - in your attempt to hit everybody who might have an interest, you've posted a review in group discussions for pretty well every SF group. Very annoying! Reviews go in REVIEWS. Take your spam somewhere else. And please DELETE the review from your post here.
I have been forgetting to post on this list, mea culpa. I am currently reading the "Ringworld" cycle by Larry Niven. I have already read "Ringworld" and "The Ringworld Engineers," and am currently reading "The Ringworld Throne." Relatedly, I have read "Man-Kzin Wars" and "Man-Kzn Wars II." I have all the Ringworld books and 7 of the 13 (Currently) Man-Kzin Wars books. Enjoyable but somewhat uneven in quality.
Just finished reading "The Devil Stood Up" by Christine Dougherty. Very detailed writing. It makes you look at the Devil in a new light. It has an element of romance for which you'll need to some Kleenex, b/c it's tear-jerking: the Devil falls in love with a mortal woman. Anyone read this?The Devil Stood Up
Can anyone recommend a good novel about witches with a nice literary flair and deep character development? I read A Discovery of Witches and the sequel already; also Alice Hoffman's Practical Magic. Any others?
I have juuuust started reading "The Fifth Sacred Thing," which has witches in it. Though not in your stereotypical kind of way.
How's the character development in it? When I pick something to read, as well as in my own writing, I like realistic, 3D characters.
Building a SciFi/Fantasy Library
Books mentioned in this topic
The Devil Stood Up (other topics)Wonderstruck (other topics)
The Moon is not for Sale (other topics)
New Hope City (other topics)
Infidel (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Brandon Sanderson (other topics)Samuel R. Delany (other topics)
Larry Correia (other topics)
George Grossmith (other topics)
Joan Slonczewski (other topics)
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I'm about to start that book too. I'm also plodding along at The Mists of Avalon. It's a good book, but hard to get anywhere with. I ge..."
I finished The Mists of Avalon about six months ago, was a year-long tour de force, very engaging at many levels. Last night, watched the miniseries on DVD, with Julianna Margulies, Anjelica Houston and Joan Allen, VERY good adaptation of the book, though at three hours it was not nearly long enough; some key characters (Kevin) were eliminated, and LOT of the priestell training and other aspects were condensed. Enjoyable nonetheless.