Building a SciFi/Fantasy Library discussion
questions
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What book are you currently reading?
François wrote: "Just started Piers Anthony's A Spell for Chameleon, read the first couple of chapters, seems like a nice little fantasy tale."I devoured almost all of Piers Anthony's novels in my teens.
Marc is right, the quality does drop off towards the later books (it's the same in almost all of his series') although i do remember Night Mare which is 7 or 8 (i think?) being as good as the original trilogy.
I have always had a fondness for his darker material like 'Bio of a space Tyrant' but especially the Battle Circle trilogy.
*Kashi* wrote: "Right now I'm at 81% Reading DUNE: "Children of Dune" It's Better than The second book, Mesiah. I Don't have time anymore :( Would love to read some Dark Fantasy next. Suggestion Welcomed.[b..."
Except when they were 1st published, I have always read all 6 as one book. As a standalone, I'd propose Dune as the best literature. There are too many dependencies from Dune for the others to be read as a standalones. OTOH, once Dune has been read, the javelin's been hurled and you cannot go home again ;-)
Started Zoe's Tale, not impressed so far. So far it's a cash-in re-telling of The Last Colony from the POV of Zoe. Nothing unique has happened, and almost halfway through it's been 200 pages of kids talking to one another, or pouting, or acting smarmy to their parents (or each other)...while regurgitating what has gone before.Zero science fiction.
I'll knock it out and move on, but if Scalzi drops another book in the Old Man's universe I will think long and hard before investing time reading it.
Stephen wrote: "I'm curious, what did you think of the Sci-Fi channel's handling of Messiah/Children in "Children of Dune"? "I have never managed to see it - I didn't have satellite tv when they showed it and I don't know anyone with the DVD set to borrow it from. Hopefully Sci-Fi will re-run it as some point.
James :-)
James wrote: "Stephen wrote: "I'm curious, what did you think of the Sci-Fi channel's handling of Messiah/Children in "Children of Dune"? "I have never managed to see it - I didn't have satellite tv when they ..."
Trust me, visit a Blockbuster or a DVDXpress and RENT this puppy!! It's well worth it... the production values are head and shoulders above the Dune remake and the acting is top-notch!! You'll probably find yourself buying it.
The Last Voyage of the Cassiopeia
Stephen wrote: "James wrote: "Stephen wrote: "I'm curious, what did you think of the Sci-Fi channel's handling of Messiah/Children in "Children of Dune"? "I have never managed to see it - I didn't have satelli..."
YIKS!!! Gotta find out if the Library has it! I enjoyed S-F Channel's reatment of "The Earthsea Trilogy" but was somewhat disappointed in their "Dune," although it had some saving graces.
About 1/2 way through "The First Heretic", #14 in the Horus Heresy Warhammer 40K books.Also reading "Suicide Kings", and "The Winds of Dune". Haven't managed to pull myself into that one very well, but it's probably because I keep finding other novels to distract me. Going to get my signed copy of "The Alloy of Law" this weekend. :)
Tim wrote: "Stephen wrote: "James wrote: "Stephen wrote: "I'm curious, what did you think of the Sci-Fi channel's handling of Messiah/Children in "Children of Dune"? "I have never managed to see it - I didn'..."
The SyFy Channel's version of "Dune" WAS a disappoinment....with the exception of Ian MacNiece and the woman playing Jessica, the cast was just about completely forgettable....it took me FOREVER to tell the actors playing Paul and Feyd apart, and ALL the Atreides retainers were identical to each other....and the sense of drama just wasn't as good as it was in the Lynch version.
"Children of Dune" corrected all of that...they had an even BETTER actress playing Jessica, an EXCELLENT actress playing Alia as an adult, much better art direction and effects and a MUCH better sense of drama!
As a matter of fact, an awful lot like I remember the books being....
The Last Voyage of the Cassiopeia
I love the first book of Dune but would have to agree that the sequels got progressively weaker and some of what happened in terms of events bordered on the unbelievable, even for scifi/fantasy. Some of the latter day Dune books co-written with Herbert's son have some solid, well paced narratives even if they are missing some of the magical intensity of the original. One of the most exciting, visual and action packed is The Machine Crusade. Very entertaining, well imagined and very connected to the source material. Might translate well to the screen too as it's got a lot of action and space opera.
Clark wrote: "I love the first book of Dune but would have to agree that the sequels got progressively weaker and some of what happened in terms of events bordered on the unbelievable, even for scifi/fantasy. S..."I gave up on the Dune series after dealing with "God Emperor", so I have no handle on the Herbert fils works....Is Clark the only person here who thinks they're good?
The Last Voyage of the Cassiopeia
Almagest
3700
The Avedon Question
I am currently reading Ilium by Dan Simmons and will soon be reading the sequel Olympos.
Stephen wrote: "....Is Clark the only person here who thinks they're good"No. I found them difficult to get into in book form but did very much enjoy them as unabridged audiobooks. They don't stand up to the original Dune but then again few books do.
Tyrone wrote: "Stephen wrote: "....Is Clark the only person here who thinks they're good"No. I found them difficult to get into in book form but did very much enjoy them as unabridged audiobooks. They don't s..."
Actually, I thought the Dune books, as much as I loved the original Lynch movie, were MASSIVELY overrated! The first one, which has the unenviable job of setting up the basic universe Paul & Co. live in, was INCREDIBLY pretentious, over-reverent and repetitive....the second and third, as we've determined, moved a lot better, but the FOURTH, and from what I could scan, subsequent volumes were just more nattering on, without much important actually happening, since most of the original protagonists were dead by the fourth entry. One can only prattle on about sietch orgies and sand-trout so much before someone screams "WHERE'S MY DOCTOR!!??"
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If we all agreed about what we liked, nothing different would ever written...
I liked both the Lynch movie and the Miniseries, but then I love visiting the universe. I even like the lesser prequels by Herbert's son. I think watching the Lynch movie, esp when it was 1st shown, required a good familiarly with Dune to enjoy. I remember most of those who didn't like it thought it was too confusing. The miniseries is a lot better in this regard.Clifton wrote: "I am currently reading Ilium by Dan Simmons and will soon be reading the sequel Olympos."
I really enjoyed these novels. I like Simmons generally. His historical horror The Terror is superior and chilling. Someone, somewhere mentioned a Simmon's book about Kali I'd not heard of—sounds like a dangerous combination.
Stephen wrote: "*Kashi* wrote: 'Right now I'm at 81% Reading DUNE: "Children of Dune" It's Better than The second book, Mesiah.' ...The two immediate sequels to "Dune" move a LOT better than the first book, which is expository and long winded, as well as repetitive and a little ponderous. And while the next two books, "Messiah" and "Children" move like a good sci-fi adventure OUGHT to move"
Funny how different people react. Dune was a masterpiece, Dune Messiah was great, Children of Dune not so much :-)
And you're right it is only a trilogy! I own copies of God Emperor of Dune and Chapterhouse: Dune, and struggled through the first and I'm not sure I even finished the second. Never even tried the one in between: Heretics of Dune
Interestingly, I've read all of the Brian Herbert/Kevin J. Anderson Dune collaborations - they're not great literature, but I'm more interested in what led up to Dune than in its downhill slide.
I agree that the Anderson/B. Herbert collaborations are not great literature. But most are well crafted and make for great listening as unabridged audio books. The original Dune you want to read as a book so you can reference the vocabulary, check back on something, ponder and reread some interesting passage. The latter day Machine Crusade is a big, splashy entertainment, very cinematic ... it's commercial.
Stephen wrote: "Actually, I thought the Dune books, as much as I loved the original Lynch movie, were MASSIVELY overrated! The first one, which has the unenviable job of setting up the basic universe Paul & Co. live in, was INCREDIBLY pretentious, over-reverent and repetitive....the second and third, as we've determined, moved a lot better,"Er, no, actually, we haven't determined that. Frankly, I found the Lynch movie MASSIVELY overrated and INCREDIBLY pretentious - I much preferred the Sci-Fi Channel's version. Except that I don't see that INCREDIBLY MASSIVE CAPITALIZATION proves anything.
Derek wrote: "Stephen wrote: "Actually, I thought the Dune books, as much as I loved the original Lynch movie, were MASSIVELY overrated! The first one, which has the unenviable job of setting up the basic univer..."Er, no, actually, we haven't determined that. Frankly, I found the Lynch movie MASSIVELY overrated and INCREDIBLY pretentious - I much preferred the Sci-Fi Channel's version. Except that I don't see that INCREDIBLY MASSIVE CAPITALIZATION proves anything.
Aaannnnd bite me.
:-)
Right. Shouting and lame insults. That's going to convince people ...
Derek wrote: "Right. Shouting and lame insults. That's going to convince people ..."Right. Why does there have to be someone like you in EVERY &%$#@!ed forum that ever lived?? Go gadfly somebody else, you vatig....I don't have any time for the likes of you....
Derek wrote: "...Interestingly, I've read all of the Brian Herbert/Kevin J. Anderson Dune collaborations - they're not great literature, but I'm more interested in what led up to Dune than in its downhill slide. I completely agree. Beside granting a revisit to the Dune universe, they have some interesting characters, esp Erasmus and the girl whose name escapes me. They are good and fun, but not great like the Dune trilogy.
I have to admit i'm some what disappointed with the way this thread has gone...It's degenerated from people talking about books they are currently reading to people who lack the maturity to accept that people can hold different opinions to their own, slagging each other off.
Anyway, in an attempt to get back on track...
I've just finished
by Harry Harrison. Harry Harrison is probably best known for his lightweight sci-fi homages to the space opera genre or his humourous sci-fi action fodder like the Stainless Steel Rat series. It was HH alongside with the likes of E.E.Doc Smith which gave me my love of SF and i still own more of his novels than any other author. Most of his output can be considered a little lightweight but i feel this is a liitle unfair because at the heart of all of the books i have read is an idea or statement about the human condition wrapped up in a great action or action parody novel. His novels also make comfort reads.
What is probably less well known is that HH is an excellent short story writer. For that reason i was excited to get my hands on a collection of his short fiction that i hadn't previously read, doubley so because it contains new Stainless Steel Rat and Deathworld stories. It also had the short story 'Roommates' which was the basis for HH's most famous work, 'Make Room, Make Room' which inspired the 1970's film Soylent Green starring Charlton Heston.
In his introduction, he talks a little about the craft of short story writing and about those he admires. He also makes the claim that these are his best short stories. And while there are some here as good as any i have read, there are more than a few which are mearly ok.
On the plus side are;
'The Golden Years of the Stainless Steel Rat' which restored some of my faith in the series that the last few books published had all but destroyed. It was a return to the SS Rat of the first 4-5 novels that i loved as a teen and in repeated readings.
'The Streets of Ashkelon', 'Toyshop' and 'Not Me, Not Amos Cabot' do everything you expect from excellent short form speculative fiction. And there is also the wonderful 'Roomates'. What is suprising is how well the Film adaptation captured the feel of the world so as it is one of may favourite SF films, i just ate up that particular story and I've downloaded the Novel now in Audio form
Tyrone wrote: "I've just finished [bookcover] by Harry Harrison.c..." [I hate these book cover links, impossible to quote or see on big monitors]I like a lot of Harrison, the Eden books eg. I read some SSR ages ago and enjoyed most. Make Room Make Room I thought a rare case when the movie was better than the book. I've not kept up with his newer stuff.
I love the golden age authors; I grew up with them. I'm currently (and slowly) doing Hal Clement in publication order. He is diamond-hard SF and sometimes takes some refreshment of Newtonian physics.
I long to re-read some old favorites like Triad an omnibus of AE van Vogt's The World of Ā, The Voyage of the Space Beagle and Slan—all classics, IMO. I've this and earlier novels packed away somewhere. What fun it will be to get all these old books out for re-reading.
I'll come back and comment further when i've listened to it. Quite often whan a short story is expanded into a novel it doesn't work as well as the orginal. The material becomes stretched and the impact of the central idea is therefore lessened. I've seen the same in films where a short has been extended into a feature.I'm a fan of E.E. "Doc" Smith myself and i'm just rereading the Lensmen books as i haven't read them since my teens. It's funny because although they seem more dated to my more mature outlook, i'm also able to look at them in the context of their time as my knowledge of history has improved. It has a balancing effect in that they are not lessened in my mind.
I enjoy a romp in the Lensmen universe about once a decade and have not found it paling with age. I think part of this is an escape to my youth when all seemed possible. I have neglected Smith's other works. Have you read any? I may do him as an author and read all his works in order. A favorite of mine from the '30s is When World's Collide and After World's Collide. The famous '50s SF flick was based on the former. These are "hard" SF. Stephen Baxter's new duology Flood|2111634 and Arc are essentially re-makes of WWC. I find it interesting that the science has not changed all that much. They both use the same propulsion system, eg. Social changes are much more obvious.
I recently saw a that they can be got in a double feature and added them as To-Read. I loved the film of the former...in fact i love pretty much all 50's SF films i've seen. I'll check out the baxter books...i've heard good things about him.I've read all of Smith's books i could get a hold of. The best of the others are the Skylark Series,, Skylark Three, The Skylark of Space, Skylark of Valeron & Skylark DuQuesne. They are quite similar in nature to the Lensmen books. Also quite good are the Family d'Alembert which were actually written/co-authored by Stephen Goldinbased on a novella by Smith...strangely only Smith is given cover credit. They remind me very much of the Stainless Steel Rat Books. There are 10 of them and they are ok...not up to the other two series.
I just finish Janny's most recent offering in The Wars of Light and Shadow, Initiate's Trial—an exhausting but worthwhile journey.I'm now reading the long awaited sequel to Verner Vinge's A Fire Upon the Deep: The Children of the Sky. I'm not too far in but am impressed with his aliens, the Tines. His handling of these aliens and their interaction with humans reminds me of a Cherryh series, the Chanur, eg—dogs and cats. I think Vinge has improved since 1992 when I read the 1st book. We shall see.
Kernos wrote: "A favorite of mine from the '30s is When World's Collide and After World's Collide. The famous '50s SF flick was based on the former. These are "hard" SF..."I just realised these are by the same author as Gladiator and while i didn't read the novel i did read a rather excellent comic book series written by Howard Chaykin called Legend which is based on the book Gladiator and which i really enjoyed. I understand that Superman is based on the hero of that book, Hugo Danner.
Currently reading Mad Skills. So far a brain-damaged girl has been restored with an experimental technique that turns her into a genius of sorts. Much of the book so far has been social commentary, as she sees through the way we live to the evil conspiracy behind it all.
Marc wrote: "Currently reading Mad Skills. So far a brain-damaged girl has been restored with an experimental technique that turns her into a genius of sorts. Much of the book so far has been soc..."Any resemblance to the story/movie/play "The Light In The Piazza", (except for the fact that the girl doesn't get rehabilitated in the original...)?
The Last Voyage of the Cassiopeia
Just finished Zoe's Tale. I wasn't impressed. Definitely the weakest of the Old Man's War series. Extremely boring...again, he works the entire book as a string of seemingly non-stop dialogue with almost zero narrative description or action at all.Just started MetaGame.
Started reading Century Rain by Alastair Reynolds, and is my first read from this author. Pretty good so far.
Neal wrote: "Just finished Zoe's Tale. I wasn't impressed. Definitely the weakest of the Old Man's War series. Extremely boring...again, he works the entire book as a string of seemingly non-s..."Sounds almost exactly like "God Emperor of Dune"....
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I am starting Ender's Game today. Well, I am thinking I will start that book, but I have Logan's Run- which took me a long time to track down- and also am itching to read Neuromancer. So decisions, decisions... lol.
Funnily enough I was thinking about starting Enders Game (on audio-book) today. :-D
Tim wrote: "I am starting Ender's Game today. Well, I am thinking I will start that book, but I have Logan's Run- which took me a long time to track down- and also am itching to read Neuromancer. So decisions,..."I don't get lost in novels very often though Neuromancer confused the hell out of me. I would love to track down a copy of Logan's Run.
Michael wrote: "I would love to track down a copy of Logan's Run."I suspect that it may get a re-release due to the remake being planned by Nicolas Winding Refn, with Ryan Gosling, Rose Byrne...
Although it will probably have one of those awful movie tie-in covers.
I recoment Logan's Run. I read it years ago and it was one of those that aside from a shared concept bore no relation to the movie. I also liked the movie but they are very different.
Michael wrote: "...I don't get lost in novels very often though Neuromancer confused the hell out of me. I would love to track down a copy of Logan's Run. "I found a copy of Logan: A Trilogy on eBay which I have yet to read. It's an omnibus of Logan's Run, Logan's Logan's World and Logan's Search. It also has an interesting intro by the author: Logan: A Media History. It was expensive, IIRC.
Kernos wrote: I found a copy of Logan:A Trilogy..."</i>I think you mean this book...[book:Logan: A Trilogy.
Tyrone wrote: "Kernos wrote: I found a copy of Logan:A Trilogy..."I think you mean this book...[book:Logan: A Trilogy."
Opps, thanks Tyrone. I corrected my link. Pia, The movie is a favorite of mine which we watch every couple of years. I'm wondering if the book will live up to the movie for me.
Soylent Green is another such movie and I thought it better than the book Make Room Make Room. Even the title's better.
Kernos wrote: "Soylent Green is another such movie and I thought it better than the book Make Room Make Room. Even the title's better. "I recently read the short story that Make Room, Make Room was expanded from and it was thoroughly enjoyable and to my delight, had the feel of the film which i also really like. Sometimes when an idea is stretched the impact of the story is lessened. I have the longer version on Audio book but haven't listened to it yet. The short story is called 'Roomates' and it can be found in Stainless Steel Visions.
I've said it before but the same thing often happens with short films that are lengthened to become features. The one exception i can think of is a film called 'Cashback' http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0460740/
where the original short is used for the 2nd act of the film in it's entirety and a new first act and third act is added. Check it out.
I love Soylent Green and Silent Running. SR has always been one of my favourites and i'm glad it is finally being recognised for the great movie that it is. I agree, those decades were the golden age for SF movies, but i'd also include the 50's as i love those paranoid American movies from that decade as well.I also have a copy of the Martian Chronicles on my shelf but haven't ventured to watch it yet...i vaguely remember it but not in detail which is why i picked up the DVD. I also remember watching the Illustrated Man on TV and was thrilled by it...keep meaning to search out a copy but should really read some of his books as well. Could you recommend the 'must reads' for me...?
Tyrone wrote: "...I recently read the short story that Make Room, Make Room was expanded from and it was thoroughly enjoyable and to my delight, had the feel of the film which i also really like. Sometimes when an idea is stretched the impact of the story is lessened..."Nightfall by Asimov was like that for me. The short story has much more impact than the novel.
Tyrone wrote: "...I just realised these are by the same author as Gladiator and while i didn't read the novel i did read a rather excellent comic book series written by Howard Chaykin called Legend which is based on the book Gladiator and which i really enjoyed. I understand that Superman is based on the hero of that book, Hugo Danner."
I started Gladiator last nite after finishing a SF that turned into a romance :-(, just read one page which encouraged me to keep reading. I tried to find a 1st edition, but found nothing with a dust jacket, so settled on the 2004 TPB.
While researching editions I found an interesting essay on pre-Golden Age superheroes: http://io9.com/5149263/the-super+est-...
Building a SciFi/Fantasy Library
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I Don't have time anymore :( Would love to read some Dark Fantasy next. Suggestion Welcomed.[b..."
Dune is one of my favourite books and i have read it at least 5 times but could never get into the follow ups written by [author:Frank Herbert|58]. I finally resorted to listening to them on audiobook. They each work out to about 20ish hours long but i used to listen to them in the car or while cooking so it wasn't difficult to get through them. Just Chapterhouse Dune to go.
While i have enjoyed taking the story forward and getting some more of the universe unveiled in the original they are not as compelling as that novel. Not sure i will revist them at any point in the future but i am glad i have persevered.
I'm hoping to read the Jim Butcher 'Dresden' books. Are they a good read?