Wild Things: YA Grown-Up discussion
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Twilight series
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April
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Jul 21, 2009 10:41AM
Andrea if you enjoyed this discussion, there are other fantastic threads in this group, which you might want to check out if you have time :-)
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Hi guys! I'm going to jump into this maelstrom again. Andrea, I totally get what you're saying, I know it's just a story, but I'm with April on this one. You said "But if a person get's that from the story and thinks it's acceptable because it happened in a story, then they are probably already weak minded to accept that anyway." I would categorize a lot of 10 and 11-year-olds as too immature to tell the difference. And those are the girls that I worry about. As for Bella being strong and independent, I'm going to have to disagree. She was submissive to Edward; and when she did disobey him, she was often castigated and it usually didn't turn out too well. You also mentioned that Edward was protecting Bella from werewolves... but the werewolves never had the intention of hurting her, at least I can't remember an instance. He also forbid her to see Jacob and got angry when she disobeyed him.
April, just a quickie comment here: I know you weren't advocating censorship of the series, or in general even. You and I have pretty similar opinions on that, I think. :) I just threw it in MY comment for all the people who could possibly justify preventing young girls from reading something similar to this because of the way the relationship is portrayed. I don't think that ideas should be avoided or censored just because it is unpleasant or potentially harmful. I think it is better to learn from those things than to hide from them and pretend they don't exist.
Also, preventing them from reading it is the very thing that will propel them TO read it. Funny how that works.I do not agree with censorship at all and I absolutely agree, Becky. :)
after reading your posts I think I will have to check out Midnight Sun.
Yes, do! I think we can all agree that 10-year-old girls shouldn't be reading the series, because they're going to take wrong ideas away from the books. But as we are all ADULTS reading the books...
Well, actually I don't agree with that Sara. I don't think that its ever too early to teach young girls what a healthy relationship is. I'm not a fan of saying that someone shouldn't read something simply based on age. I was allowed to read anything and everything when I was a kid, and there's nothing wrong with me... ;)
Okay, fine. We can't all agree. Never mind then. I'm out.
Umm, OK. I'm sorry if I offended you. I just stated my opinion - it wasn't personal. Just a different opinion than yours.
Tahleen wrote: "Hi guys! I'm going to jump into this maelstrom again. Andrea, I totally get what you're saying, I know it's just a story, but I'm with April on this one. You said "But if a person get's that from t..."Ok yeah maybe 10 year old girls are impressionable, I get that. However you would expect them to have strong roll models in their lives that a book would not be their one and only view point on relationships.
I don't belive i ever one mentioned the werewolfs but regardless if they ever actually intended to attacked her or not, the danger was still there. The werewolfs were highly voilitile and Jacob himself was a new werewolf and not expected to have full control of himself.
I don't see submissive. She never backed down for what she believed in. Once she decided something she did it, always. I don't think she ever obeyed anyone. Edward never told her to do anything because he felt like it, that wasn't out of protection.
I can't agree with you. I think the simple fact is that we each walk away with different points of the story being stronger to each of us.
So I'm watching TV right now, and the South Park episode where they make fun of Twilight is on. It's a funny episode, not quite as funny as the one where they make fun of World of Warcraft though.
April wrote: "So I'm watching TV right now, and the South Park episode where they make fun of Twilight is on. It's a funny episode, not quite as funny as the one where they make fun of World of Warcraft though."Ugh! I so wish I'd seen that! South Park is one of those things I rarely get to watch--usually, I don't like it, but sometimes, I'm absolutely dying with laughter.
I work at a middle school and let me tell you, there were and probably will be this year, little girls walking around Edward possessed! It was extremely creepy to me....thankfully, my own daughter (who read it at 13) was disturbed that Edward was in Bella's room watching her sleep. To quote "People fart, burp and make other strange noises in their sleep; I don't want some one watching me do that. I'd freak!" That's the reaction I'm glad she had--not the one where it's so romantic because he watched her sleeping--you know it's love, eerrr no an obsession~~
Leslie, it is really hit or miss with me as well. I hate when the episodes are filled with fart or poop jokes, but there are a few gems as well.In the SP Twilight episode, basically this group of banana republic wearing kids decide they are vampires, so they go to hot topic and buy vampire clothes. This really makes the goth kids angry. More stuff happens, but it is a funny commentary on the reaction to Twilight among some youth.
Andrea wrote: "I think the whole "abusive" issue is totally off. Edward knew he was bad for Bella, he tried to stay away from her, warned her that he was all wrong for her . . . Every time he "controlled" he..."
It was this post I was referring to Andrea. And I really don't mean to get you angry or upset, I'm just stating what I think. You just tend to sound really defensive and angry when you're writing your posts, and I hope that's not how you're feeling! I just like debating about this.
***sigh*** I give. . . I'm so not trying to fight with anyone over twilight. Really, I'm not.
I'm not angry and don't mean to come off defensive. Although after being told that I am angry, defensive and something about an aditude, I do now feel like I need to defend myself, lol.
I tend to think that things are more what you make them then anything else. If you feel like the victim, then you probably are. If you want to see something then you will. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, ya know.
I think that I more thought on Bella's strengths, and how she fought for what she wanted. Her courage and compassion, Edwards intensity and the whole forbidden love, I loved it.
I get that at points in the story she was told what to do and what not to do. But she still did what she wanted. If she would have coward down and did what she was told, then I might think of her as abused. She was never afraid of him. An abused woman is usually afraid, walks on egg shells. She doesn't do what she's not supposed to because she's afraid of the consiquences.
The only issue I ever really had with Edward in the books was the watching her sleep when she didn't know. That was creepy.
Oh well, done guys. Have fun.
Fiona wrote: "Scuse me for butting in - but I'd heard Meyer had originally written twilight for an adult audience - but the publishers/agent/whatever decided it'd fit in the YA category. So maybe it isn't really..."Thank you for posting this. Meyer never intended this novel to be classified as YA. I myself was once involved in an abusive relationship, and in reading this series, never once did I relate Bella and Edward's relationship to mine. I got out and am happily married, for almost nine years, but Edward's actions were not even close to being the same as my ex-boyfriend. I think teenage girls who read this like the drama and romance. I really don't see them focusing on the "control issues" that so many of you are talking about. I loved the series.
Just my two cents!
Leannepoduska wrote: "Fiona wrote: "Scuse me for butting in - but I'd heard Meyer had originally written twilight for an adult audience - but the publishers/agent/whatever decided it'd fit in the YA category. So maybe i..."Good for you, Leannepoduska! :)
I also did not think of Edward and Bella's relationship as abusive in any way while reading it. To tell you the truth, I just enjoyed reading the story.
Hmm, after all of this discussion I think I'm going to have to reread the series.
Jo I think you will enjoy them still but see different things.
I loved this series, and read all 4 in less than two weeks. I don't think Meyer's writing style was superb, but it didn't make me cringe. Bella annoyed me a lot, but she's a teenager and a lot of her reactions just seemed teenage-ish to me. She's obsessed with Edward, but he is her first love, and that is a very intense thing. Yes, Jacob is a healthier prospect, but how often do high school girls make the right choice in boys? Also, Jacob was younger, and that can be a huge deterrent to a girl that age.
I think the biggest thing to me is that Bella felt authentic. If she had made all the right choices, teens wouldn't be reading it in these numbers and the good example would be lost anyways. The more important thing is letting it be the start to a discussion, one that most parents and teens are uncomfortable having normally. Maybe we should thank Meyer for giving us a great way to talk to the younger women we know without making it feel awkward.
I finally finished the series as part of YA Challenge #2. I made a choice to decide to waylay reading the last book in the series, although I read the first 3 voraciously (I do agree the 3rd was rather crap) and sent them on to my granddaughters.If you know who I am, then you know I expose all my children (mine and grand) to anything so we can discuss certain issues. And if there is one thing I really liked about the Twilight series, it was the focus on "choices" and how we make them and must include in our decision-making the concept of consequences.
All characters, as are all human, have faults. Their choices are not made in a vacuum but within the context of their past, present and perceived future. For me, this is one of the great lessons that YA novels can provide to its readers -- a serious life lesson. Edward is NOT perfect by any means, and neither are any of the other characters, including the adult figures. But they make choices based on what they know and perceive. For this, I enjoy the series.
IMHO!
Does Bella mature at all in the series? I read Twilight and loved it. New Moon was pathetic oh I meant to say Bella was, and I quit after New Moon. I just thought her character were so underdeveloped and flat I couldn't continue.I am reading the House of Night Series and am finding it very good so far. It's very different but I like the writing much better than Meyer's.
Rebecca, I think House of Night is so much better than Twilight in every way possible. Except it can get a little preachy at times. But it's still good, and I think more interesting. And personally I don't think Bella matures much, but I'm sure there are others who disagree.
Rebecca, I also stopped reading at New Moon. The only thing I liked about Twilight was that it was a fast read, but when I read New Moon, I just got so thoroughly annoyed with Bella thinking "Get a life!" That's when I decided I had enough of her pathetic-ness. Hmmm, I've never heard of the House of Night series. I must check it out. I've been looking for a new fantasy series to get into (as Evermore was such a dissapointment). Must check it out.
I prefer house of night to twilight as well. Bella is a little too obsessed with Edward. lol.
Amelia wrote: "Melissa wrote: "Ehhh, I'm definitely in the minority with these books. I did read all of the books and will say that I enjoyed them. BUT, and this is a big one. I couldn't stand any of the chara..."That is true. Bella was really wimpy for a long time. Not to mention whiny.
I just re-read Twilight (I'm going to re-read New Moon soon before the movie). I forget how much I enjoyed this book, even though I read it a few times already. I still smile while I read my favorite chapters *sigh*
: ) and I was also sad when I finished the book even though I know there are three other books and I read all of them *sigh again*
No I haven't read it. I know Stephenie Meyer's posted it online even though she stopped writing it, but for some reason I feel like I'm still cheating (since it's not an official book).
I don't see this series as particularly good, in any way. I believe this sums it up fairly well:http://shinga.deviantart.com/art/Head...
http://shinga.deviantart.com/art/Head...
You can click to enlarge.
Stephanie Meyer stopped writing Midnight Sun because the pre-edit drafts she had written somehow got circulated online, and so Meyer decided that she didn't want to continue writing it any longer - she explains her reasons for this here: http://www.stepheniemeyer.com/midnigh... and I completely agree with them. As for Midnight Sun however, I'm really not a fan. Please don't get me wrong, I loved the Twilight series when I first read it, and still get enjoyment out of them whenever I come back to them, but Midnight Sun felt like it was a personal experiment by Meyer to see inside Edward's head - and what's the problem with that? Nothing - the idea would be a good one if the tale dealt with a completely new story. Instead Midnight Sun tells us exactly the same story as Twilight does from Edward's point of view, and so there's nothing new to read, save maybe a couple of pages about what he did when he ran off to Tanya's coven. Though I don't think that Meyer wrote Midnight Sun with the intention of it being a money spinner, it will obviously go down a storm with the Edward lovers in the world, and fans will be clamouring for her to continue Edward's narrative with New Moon, Eclipse and Breaking Dawn. I imagine then it will seem like she's just churning them out for the profit, and would Jacob's story follow swiftly after?
I totally get what your saying about Midnight Sun. I think it would be better to get his perspective from New Moon since he was gone for a good portion. But as for Jacob...he get's his own portion already in the Twilight series (breaking dawn???)
I loved them all. I could read them like drinking water on a hot summer day. I do not always click with authors like that, so when I do, I just relax and enjoy it, treasuring every moment. The books were a great escape the reality thrill ride for me.
Yeah it would be nice to see how they all end up in the future.
I doubt Stephenie Meyer will write another book for the series, though.
Yeah, if she does come out with another one it will most likely be Midnight Sun, which is just Twilight from Edward's perspective.
Bhumi wrote: "I doubt Stephenie Meyer will write another book for the series, though."I am hoping that she may finish Midnight Sun eventually, edit it and publish it. I know that she released unfinished version after the manuscript was released without her permission by a "friend". It must have been devastating... that person pretty much stole her right to finish the book. I hope that she will one day decide not to be a victim and finish working on it anyway, not that I blame her for refusing to finish the book. I have avoided reading Midnight Sun, because I am holding out to see it finished.
I feel the same way Svetlana. I almost read it, but I feel like I'm cheating Stephenie Meyer. So I didn't do it.
Jennifer wrote: "I feel the same way Svetlana. I almost read it, but I feel like I'm cheating Stephenie Meyer. So I didn't do it. "Exactly!
I feel exactly the same way. I have not read anything but the first chapter (which she had posted on her Web site before the infamous "stealing"). It is indeed a challenge to stick to not reading it - but I would not want to violate her privacy, and everyone who reads it is - in a way - doing so. She did not want it read yet and I am willing to stand by her wishes - but PLEASE Stephenie finish it! I don't know if I can hold out forever!
When Stephanie was on Oprah in November she indicated in the backroom interview that her mother really wanted her to finish Midnight Sun and that she would be but she just wasn't sure when. So at this point I believe it is just timing for her to feel ready to write it again.
Oh thanks for sharing that Alyson. I seem to always miss that episode.
I'm dying for Midnight Sun. She needs to just finish it already.
Amy wrote: "I'm dying for Midnight Sun. She needs to just finish it already."Amy - I think we need to respect her as an author. Her work was compromised and she feels she needs to be in a certain space in order to finish it. I would rather grant her that space and time and have a book that I want to read then to have her put something out that she doesn't care about because readers want to be impatient. At least there will be a short story coming out in June from Bree's POV that we can look forward to.
I agree with her reasoning behind not finishing it. I would be extremely upset if someone leaked my unfinished work. But at the same time, I feel like by not finishing it, she's trying to keep the hype about her books going because they are so popular. I'm sure she's probably though ahead as to what will happen after the last movie has been released, which may affect her popularity.
Svetlana wrote: "Bhumi wrote: "I doubt Stephenie Meyer will write another book for the series, though."I am hoping that she may finish Midnight Sun eventually, edit it and publish it. I know that she released u..."
They did say on the website that Stephenie Meyer's next project was supposed to be Midnight Sun. That, however, was a while ago and even before the release and publication of The Short Second Life of Bree Tanner: An Eclipse Novella. I keep holding out for another update on the novel and whether or not I can finally stop holding my breath for it! [: I have the draft saved & I read it every now and then simply because I both love the series, and I love the way it is written in a completely different perspective.
Wild Things: YA Grown-Up
Books mentioned in this topic
The Short Second Life of Bree Tanner (other topics)Midnight Sun [2008 Draft] (other topics)
Nightlight: A Parody (other topics)
The Host (other topics)
Graceling (other topics)
