Debate discussion
Religion
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Religion: Would The World Be Better With Or Without It?
Mod
I understand what you're saying, J. There's no need to repeat yourself. But the fact that you're saying it doesn't go both ways makes you sound a little pompous in all honesty. You don't believe that there's a God. So yes, to get you to believe I have to prove that there's a God. But I believe in God. In order for you guys to get me to believe that there isn't one YOU have to prove to me that there isn't one. Hence it going both ways.
Mod
Lauren wrote: "*no one reads what I write, sigh*"
Srsly, ahaha poor Lauren.
Srsly, ahaha poor Lauren.
I was typing up the post as you posted yours, Lauren :)And I understand what you're saying. And then look at me as the defense, etcetera... You can keep saying the same thing over and over again but I'm speaking my mind. You have the burden of proof in my eyes, as I have the burden of proof in your eyes, as illogical as you may think I am.
Ahem, as illogical as we know you are.
Rofl (x
Rofl (x
You don't know me :) So, you have no idea whether or not I'm logical or illogical based on the points that I debate from. Assumptions, my dear, assumptions.
Ahh, I knew you'd say that. Okay.
"...as illogical as we know you are being."
Right now, at this point in time. Ahahaha.
"...as illogical as we know you are being."
Right now, at this point in time. Ahahaha.
In your eyes =P It just depends on your views, I suppose, on whether or not I'm being logical or illogical right now. Actually, that's a bit obvious, huh? xD
Hahahahah.
Where did Lauren go!
Where did Lauren go!
Mod
:)
Ahahah! Jerk :P
I have a lot to do, actually. Oh my, junior year is so stressing.
I have a lot to do, actually. Oh my, junior year is so stressing.
I'm back home, it's so peaceful not having to deal with you people, lol. Though I did miss SOME of you, others, not so much...In any case, breaks ar efun.
J, there is something that really bothers mea bout one of your posts. Religion is in no way lying to oneself. That is a ridiculous and slightly offensive claim. No, religion is not a silly lie of a whim, religion is an important part of one's life which can give motivation, in addition to family and friends, to strive to be a better person in hopes of God, heaven, reincarnation, etc. Believeing in God is not lying to oneself, it is having extreme faith and not caring what nonbelievers say to disproove your faith. There is quite a difference and I think yuo still fail to see that. Think of it as a court case. We are the defense, you are the prosecutor. You claim that X happened. We claim the negative. Who carries the Burden of Proof?
Neither of us have any way to win a court case like this because it can go either way. Kind of ironic that we keep trying, eh?
Mod
Guys, you keep saying things about how there is no proof of god. That is a well known fact, and by repeating yourselved you aren't changing anyones mind, your just giving them headaches.Everyone on here knows very well that god cannot be scientifically proven. that is not what this debate is about. This debate is a debate over faith. there are those that believe that faith has more power than facts, and there are those that believe that faith is ridiculous and is a sign of weakness, and vulnerability.
Now, everyone has to have faith in something. We all have faith in our parents, faith in ourselves and even faith in the mentality that faith is ridiculous. Whatever is is, faith is inescapable.
SO when you debate against faith, and tell people that they are weak, needy and unable to live their lives without the presence of god, you just sounds like jerks.
Because there are other reasons for having faith besides fear, weakness and overall inabilities to survive alone.
You claim to be open minded by choosing a much less popular point of view, yet you completely shun and even despise the idea of god! Thats not being open minded, and thats not seeing both sides of the story.
Organized religion really does have its flaws, and tehre will never be a way to prove gods existence, we all know that. But you cannot spend your time on here trying to prove a persons faith wrong. Faith cannot be wrong! Faith is personal, a decision that was made on a level much deeper than most people can look. You cannot say that someone's faith is invalid, because that is not a fact.
This is not a debate that can be won with facts! On one hand you cannot prove god with facts. On the other, you cannot disprove his followers faith as facts! Their faith alone is the only proof that they have, and it is not something that can be proved wrong nor right.
As for me, i am not an atheist. I do not follow a religion. I have faith in whatever i see when i dream. I have faith in my future, and in my education. I have faith in my life, and maybe even the one after. I've taken a break from this debate, because i no longer feel the need to prove my point. I no longer feel a need to reassure myself of my standing by sarcastically attacking those who feel differently.
This message was to all of the atheists on here, not to one specific person, so please no one take it that way!
Okay, leaving again now.
Bye bye
:D
Mod
There is a difference between faith and trust. Faith implies no proof, trust does.
"You claim to be open minded by choosing a much less popular point of view, yet you completely shun and even despise the idea of god! Thats not being open minded, and thats not seeing both sides of the story."
We have seen both sides of the story. That is why we're atheists.
"You cannot say that someone's faith is invalid, because that is not a fact."
They obviously have faith. What they have faith in is the point.
Wow. Alot has gone on in two weeks. And yes Lauren,i can say things constructivly. What do you care. You call me stupid,ignorant,and conceided almost every day.
Lauren wrote: "Epicurus quote?“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?..."
Playing God's advocate. ;D
Someone once said that evil is not caused by God, but by the absence of God. Opinions?
Mod
And I do it much more eloquently then you, for you have called me the same, in smaller words.
Evil is a subjective term. So, we must define "evil" first. And don't just run off to your dictionary on this one. We can do it ourselves. :)
Riley is not being a good mod. I'm ignoring the last page and going ahead with my opinions.If religion is making you a good person, go ahead. But it seems like the bible endorses as much unkindness as it can....like the symbolism of the 'Tree of Knowledge', which eating from is a sin. WTF?! Now, that's just messed up. So learning more things is...bad? Uh oh, better stop the school system. And how every punishment is death...just how many hypocrisies are in there. So yes, I believe in God. I believe in a higher, all-powerful being, but sure not the one in the bible.
Mod
Lauren wrote: ""Now, everyone has to have faith in something. We all have faith in our parents, faith in ourselves and even faith in the mentality that faith is ridiculous. Whatever is is, faith is inescapable."..."
Lauren you have not seen all sides f the situation obviously. Yes you have seen the side of religion, but you seem to refuse to step into a believers shoes for a moment and consider their faith. Maybe you believe that their religion is unjust, and that their god is an egotistical baby, but that does not mean it is true. Same goes for those hwo think that atheism is a sign of arrogance and of obvious blindness of the unknown, just because that think that does not make it true.
So what im saying is that maybe you guys should chill out from the debate a bit, go and figure out what YOU believe in, instead of focusing on what others do.
Atheists believe that god and religion are wrong, but that does not make it true.
Theists believe that god is good, and that atheists are going to hell, but that doesn't make it true either.
This is a debate which no one will ever win. It will continue to heat up and people will get angry offended and mean and then it will subside, starting up again within a few weeks.
pointless really.
Mod
I know what I beleive. And, we believe that God is false, BECAUSE it has been proven to us.
I think the intellectual exercise is quite fun.
"Maybe you believe that their religion is unjust, and that their god is an egotistical baby, but that does not mean it is true."
We have the proof to back up those claims.
Pointless? No. The same way people can be persuaded into believing in a religion, they can be persuaded into being an atheist.
Our main point is that it is a lot more likely that there is no god than that there is. And we want you theists, all theists, to question it, just a little. To think. Because simply saying "No, no, no, I don't want to hear this anymore." is ridiculous! Don't you agree?
"So what im saying is that maybe you guys should chill out from the debate a bit, go and figure out what YOU believe in, instead of focusing on what others do."
I know what I believe, thank you.
"You claim to be open minded by choosing a much less popular point of view, yet you completely shun and even despise the idea of god!"
That was rude. We do not shun the idea. If we did, we wouldn't be here debating it. And I am not an atheist because I like that it is a minority. I also do not claim to be open-minded because atheism is a minority. You're assuming.
"SO when you debate against faith, and tell people that they are weak, needy and unable to live their lives without the presence of god, you just sounds like jerks.
Because there are other reasons for having faith besides fear, weakness and overall inabilities to survive alone."
What are the other reasons, then? If not to make yourself feel better about things, and give you hope?
Our main point is that it is a lot more likely that there is no god than that there is. And we want you theists, all theists, to question it, just a little. To think. Because simply saying "No, no, no, I don't want to hear this anymore." is ridiculous! Don't you agree?
"So what im saying is that maybe you guys should chill out from the debate a bit, go and figure out what YOU believe in, instead of focusing on what others do."
I know what I believe, thank you.
"You claim to be open minded by choosing a much less popular point of view, yet you completely shun and even despise the idea of god!"
That was rude. We do not shun the idea. If we did, we wouldn't be here debating it. And I am not an atheist because I like that it is a minority. I also do not claim to be open-minded because atheism is a minority. You're assuming.
"SO when you debate against faith, and tell people that they are weak, needy and unable to live their lives without the presence of god, you just sounds like jerks.
Because there are other reasons for having faith besides fear, weakness and overall inabilities to survive alone."
What are the other reasons, then? If not to make yourself feel better about things, and give you hope?
Mod
I know what I believe. Just because, yes, I do think religion is at times a horrible thing, does not mean I am biased. It means I've done my research on what religion is.
If you don't want to hear it, then why are going on a topic, that is ON TOPIC about religion.
J wrote: "Pointless? No. The same way people can be persuaded into believing in a religion, they can be persuaded into being an atheist.Our main point is that it is a lot more likely that there is no god..."
Hehe J, as usual you took this as a personal attack on you, even though i clearly stated that it was meant for everyone.
Lauren i never said i didn;t want to hear it, though i am getting annoyed at the same exchanges
"Godd eoesn't exist! (insert atheist link here)"
"God does exist!" and repeat.
I was actually debating wether or not this was a topic about religion, (not what the topic should be but what has been debated on here). I feel that its more a debate on what you should believe in and what not too, or at least thats how is coming off and i dont like it very much.
ANyway, have fun im leaving this one. Bye bye
Also i didn;t mean to jump to any conclusions with anyone, nor insult any on you.BYE BYE BYE BYE BYE BYE BYE!!!!!!
BA DOO DOO DOO DOO DOO!!
Chandani wrote: "Hehe J, as usual you took this as a personal attack on you, even though i clearly stated that it was meant for everyone."
As usual? Psh. I did not take it as 'a personal attack.'
I was defending my side's point of view.
As usual? Psh. I did not take it as 'a personal attack.'
I was defending my side's point of view.
Mod
Our link > their links
*snakes back in*THANKIES LIZ!!
*sneaks back out*
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...but chan, you must still check the comments? I agree, I'm unsure about myself...so I'll wait, and read...and delete... AND USE A LOT OF ELIPSES!
*sneaks in again*Haha yes i do still check the comments... i just wont debate and will delete the spamish stuffs :)
*runs away*
Funny, that essay/article applies for things that are said in this group, today.
Mod
Well, good for you. I need to go to Wikipedia...
'And I do it much more eloquently then you, for you have called me the same, in smaller words.'
There you go again calling me stupid. You know what you don't know me. You shouldn't call people that you do not know personally stupid. Because, I'm most certainly not unintelligent. Again i say you do not know me. At all.
There you go again calling me stupid. You know what you don't know me. You shouldn't call people that you do not know personally stupid. Because, I'm most certainly not unintelligent. Again i say you do not know me. At all.
we know you on the internet. and from how you act on this group, they think that about you. thats how knowing someone works, jessica.
Well,you and nobody else(except sara) really knows me so you can just leave me the hell alone.Damn.
but its the same...*confusion*
No,it's not.I'm just wearing the same shirt in that pic.
It doesn't go both ways:
You say there is a god. You have no proof. You cannot make that claim. And since you cannot make that claim, there is nothing to debate about, meaning no need for us atheists to tell you that we believe you are wrong. We don't have to prove anything, you do.