Debate discussion
Religion
>
Religion: Would The World Be Better With Or Without It?
this is howie do it...ha ha ha
well some of the things that you say were funny...
Mod
"
I thought your song was lovely. :)
sara are you TRYING to get off topic?? if you want to be random and talk about pie, go elsewhere.
Mod
http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/1...
Can anyone spot the irony?
gee, idk, you asked who liked pie in the pro-choice please read topic. you randomly say things a lot. and overall, you don't really contribute to any part of this group.
OMG PIE!!!!!!!!I HATE PIE, Except the crust, its tasty...
OMGS me TOO!!!!!!!!!!! i only like pumpkin pie and cobbler.
If you are no longer interested in debating God, leave.now, time to heat up the argument.
God cannot exist, unless he doesn't care about us. If he created the universe, what created him?
Sorry if I'm not focusing, but last time I heated up the arguement, 4 people tried to beat me with a bible.Wonderful point Riley, Also, why would he place diseases on infants that don't understand his powers, they can't possibly pass the "test" you people are saying all bad things are.
Yes, exactly! And they die at a young age too!I'm going to bring up an interesting theory a neighbor of mine has.
"Before we're created in heaven, we have to pass certain tests. Then, depending on how many tests we've passed and of what nature is how God decides how many trials we have to go through in our mortal life. So people with the most trials didn't pass very many trials before they were created. The ones with very easy lives did a lot. When God feels we are done with our trials and worthy to sit with him in the kingdom of heaven we die. That is why children can die a few days after being born, or even in the womb."
*sorry Mr. Ferrel. Stole it from you
I disagree with Mr. Ferrel on that one. Like Marley said fetuses are incapable of passing tests. They have no thoughts, and the idea of God has never been introduced to them. They can't think up of a God on their own, not only because they can't think but also they have no reason to create a God if they don't know the world even exists. Since, God did create Earth and all (from a Christian's POV).
He didn't even talk about fetuses having thoughts or a god. Did your mother ever talk to you about walking around in heaven before you were put in the womb? mine did.
OMG OMG.... I just thought of a really good arguement for abortion...Okay, god, in a way, decides who lives or dies, right? Okay, so, that means he choses whether a fetus lives or dies, and when it dies, he is killing an innocent "Person" (since that is what the theist's are calling it) So, why can't a mother, do the same, if it is a danger to her, or the child's health...
Sorry, had to write it down.
Riley wrote: "He didn't even talk about fetuses having thoughts or a god. Did your mother ever talk to you about walking around in heaven before you were put in the womb? mine did. ""When God feels we are done with our trials and worthy to sit with him in the kingdom of heaven we die. That is why children can die a few days after being born, or even in the womb."
And no, I've never even heard that concept. My mother is a Jewish agnostic, if that makes sense.
Exactly. If you believe God is all-powerful, then he decides who dies and when.
And if God controls who lives and dies than isn't he allowing the woman to kill the fetus?
But then comes the whole murder argument, that there should be no punishment cuz God made you do it.
If you believe in him. But then, if God is all loving, how does that work?
I cannot wait until rels come on here and battle our logic!
God isn't all loving. The Bible proves that. Just look at Lauren's past comment on the abortion topics.
Liz wrote: "Lauren, dear, did you miss my song?
Why? Because I have faith. Mine is special because this is how I do it, this is what gets me through my day, there isn't no other way.
Still working on my song..."
So if you were born into a Buddhist family, you'd believe in that? And if you were born into a Mormon family, you'd believe in that? It's ridiculous. How can you possibly believe your god is the real one when there are so many other variations?
Why? Because I have faith. Mine is special because this is how I do it, this is what gets me through my day, there isn't no other way.
Still working on my song..."
So if you were born into a Buddhist family, you'd believe in that? And if you were born into a Mormon family, you'd believe in that? It's ridiculous. How can you possibly believe your god is the real one when there are so many other variations?
I agree. The one thing i don't get about God though is the fact that he sends people to hell for not believing in him. It's ridiculous. Making people suffer simply because they had an opinion on something God disagrees with. Now, not allowing them into heaven is fine, but sending them to hell isn't. Ghosts or reincarnation is a better option. Or maybe an atheist heaven?
Hehehe. We're all going to atheist heaven =D
Maria wrote: "I agree. The one thing i don't get about God though is the fact that he sends people to hell for not believing in him. It's ridiculous. Making people suffer simply because they had an opinion on so..."God sends people to hell for not believing in him? I am devout Roman CAtholic and ahve never heard that. That is certainly not what I believe, maybe some uber-conservative christians, but you can't mark all christians as believing that.
So if you were born into a Buddhist family, you'd believe in that? And if you were born into a Mormon family, you'd believe in that? It's ridiculous. How can you possibly believe your god is the real one when there are so many other variations?
No...that is not what I said at all...My beliefs are ridiculous, are they? Thanks. How can I believe my God is the right one? I don't believe there is one right one or one variation that is the answer or one religion that are the chosen people. I would have no way to know, in the first place, which religion is right. You are implying all sorts of things! I chose this religion because the morals are most in line with what I believe. That is an obvious answer.
God cannot exist, unless he doesn't care about us. If he created the universe, what created him?
So God is cruel and heartless because he teaches us lessons to better our souls? Think about what the world would be like without war or poverty. On the surface, it would be good, but don't those things better us as people and teach us well? OOOOhh West Side Story -- remember at the end of the gang fight, when Tony is killed and Maria is crying and the gangs stop fighting and realize what they have done and then all join together to console Maria and carry Tony???? Isn't that a great example of how war kills and feeds hatred but at the same time can diminish hatred and put love in its place?
If he created the universe, what created him? How would I know? How would you know? How would Aquinas know? That is not what we are concerned about, we have faith and faith does not require explanation.
God isn't all loving.
Is it up to you to dismiss God as one who does not love all people? No, Maria, it really isn't.
YES! I single-handedly headed J, Maria, Riley, and Marley's comments! Go me!
Mod
All babies are atheist. Without outside influence, they would remain so.
"1985745 Hehehe. We're all going to atheist heaven =D"
THAT is when all the religious people are taken at the end of the world or other stuff, and the only people not taken are atheists. WE WILL INHERIT THE WORLD!
"I chose this religion because the morals are most in line with what I believe. That is an obvious answer."
What kind of exposure did you have to other religions, at a young age before you were set in what you think?
"Isn't that a great example of how war kills and feeds hatred but at the same time can diminish hatred and put love in its place?"
If God is all-powerful, then he could do that, without the pain involved. That is a messy and inefficient solution. A human solution.
"we have faith and faith does not require explanation. "
SO, if you had faith God was telling you to kill people, well then, that's all right? (btw, it's happened. google it.)
All babies are atheist. Without outside influence, they would remain so.I'm fairly positive babies have given no thought to religion, aetheism or theism.
What kind of exposure did you have to other religions, at a young age before you were set in what you think?
Hmm...my best friend in first grade was Muslim, we celebrated Channukah and Diwali, and some of my closest friends were Hindi. My mother converted when she was a teenager so when I was growing up, I was always told I could be whatever I wanted and believed. So, the answer to your question is A TON.
SO, if you had faith God was telling you to kill people, well then, that's all right? (btw, it's happened. google it.)
Lauren, I don't think you understand. Faith is not doing whatever you believe, faith is believing without fact. So no, I would not kill because I thought God said to do so.
If God is all-powerful, then he could do that, without the pain involved. That is a messy and inefficient solution. A human solution.
God can do it, but if God were to solve all of our problems,we wouldn't learn and grow, which is exactly what he wants us to do. God is not there to solve all our problems, he put them there for a reason. God is there to guide us through, so we achieve something.
I think that is what you fail to understand.
Liz wrote: "
If God is all-powerful, then he could do that, without the pain involved. That is a messy and inefficient solution. A human solution.
God can do it, but if God were to solve all of our problems,w..."
And what about the people who never work through their problems and die a hopeless nothing? God didn't guide them very well, did he?
If God is all-powerful, then he could do that, without the pain involved. That is a messy and inefficient solution. A human solution.
God can do it, but if God were to solve all of our problems,w..."
And what about the people who never work through their problems and die a hopeless nothing? God didn't guide them very well, did he?
Liz wrote: "All babies are atheist. Without outside influence, they would remain so.
I'm fairly positive babies have given no thought to religion, aetheism or theism.
What kind of exposure did you have to ot..."
Just because you like your religion's set of morals most, that's what you're believing? That is silly too. There is just as much chance that the Muslim religion is right, or any other religion for that matter.
I'm fairly positive babies have given no thought to religion, aetheism or theism.
What kind of exposure did you have to ot..."
Just because you like your religion's set of morals most, that's what you're believing? That is silly too. There is just as much chance that the Muslim religion is right, or any other religion for that matter.
Just because you like your religion's set of morals most, that's what you're believing? That is silly too. There is just as much chance that the Muslim religion is right, or any other religion for that matter.How is that silly? I don't understand why you think it is silly and ridiculous. I believe that many forms of worship and religions are right, and I have actually looked into Islam (not Muslim) and decided Catholicism is right for me. Do you have a problem with this?
And what about the people who never work through their problems and die a hopeless nothing? God didn't guide them very well, did he?
Yes.
I don't really understand what all you aetheists have a problem with. It appears that you guys have issues with me for believing in God when neither of us have any evidence either way! This is what I believe, it helps me be a good person, it gets me through my day, don't yuck my yum.
"God cannot exist, unless he doesn't care about us."Why do you think that God doesn't care about us?
"Also, why would he place diseases on infants that don't understand his powers, they can't possibly pass the "test" you people are saying all bad things are."
Maybe the test isn't for the infant, maybe the test is for the parents who are scared for their child. Though disease may not be directly affecting the person in need of the trial it doesn't mean that it isn't for them. My mom's cancer was quite the trial for me, probably more so than it was for her. My sister's disease is quite a trial for me, posibly more so than for her. I'm not just saying that, I'm speaking the honest truth.
"And if God controls who lives and dies than isn't he allowing the woman to kill the fetus?"
Free will.
"God isn't all loving. The Bible proves that. Just look at Lauren's past comment on the abortion topics."
Please, explain :)
"So if you were born into a Buddhist family, you'd believe in that? And if you were born into a Mormon family, you'd believe in that?"
You do know that people are allowed to choose whether or not they believe the religion they're born into, right? My cousin was born into a Mormon family and is already planning to leave the church when she gets older. Mostly because her parents are smothering her with it, where as mine aren't. It depends on the person, just as you all choose to be athiests. Just because they're born into a religion it doesn't force them into believing it.
"Now, not allowing them into heaven is fine, but sending them to hell isn't."
As I've said before, that's what I believe. God only sends the worst to "hell" (outer darkness) meaning that the others go to different Kingdoms of Heaven. "Hell" will more be knowing what you could've had (being with your Father for eternity).
"What kind of exposure did you have to other religions, at a young age before you were set in what you think?"
I, personally, have gone to several different churches and studied many other religions and find that this one fits me perfectly. Not because I was born into it, but because I decided to do my research and study from all different sides. In fact, there was a time when I didn't want to believe that there was a God. I did, but I didn't want to. It depends on the person and how willing they are to learn for themselves.
"If God is all-powerful, then he could do that, without the pain involved. That is a messy and inefficient solution. A human solution."
As I've also said before, giving people the easy way out would be like holding a baby while they're trying to walk. Unless you let the baby fall down they'll never learn how to keep their balance.
"And what about the people who never work through their problems and die a hopeless nothing? God didn't guide them very well, did he?"
FREE WILL.
You do know that people are allowed to choose whether or not they believe the religion they're born into, right? My cousin was born into a Mormon family and is already planning to leave the church when she gets older. Mostly because her parents are smothering her with it, where as mine aren't. It depends on the person, just as you all choose to be athiests. Just because they're born into a religion it doesn't force them into believing it.
But most people believe the religion they're born into and most people don't switch. Which means their religion is just by chance. By chance they were born into Christianity or by chance they were raised to believe in Buddhism.
"And what about the people who never work through their problems and die a hopeless nothing? God didn't guide them very well, did he?"
FREE WILL.
Why would God let them fail so miserably?
Maybe the test isn't for the infant, maybe the test is for the parents who are scared for their child. Though disease may not be directly affecting the person in need of the trial it doesn't mean that it isn't for them. My mom's cancer was quite the trial for me, probably more so than it was for her. My sister's disease is quite a trial for me, posibly more so than for her. I'm not just saying that, I'm speaking the honest truth.
So he has to kill a child to put another human through a test? Seems cruel.
But most people believe the religion they're born into and most people don't switch. Which means their religion is just by chance. By chance they were born into Christianity or by chance they were raised to believe in Buddhism.
"And what about the people who never work through their problems and die a hopeless nothing? God didn't guide them very well, did he?"
FREE WILL.
Why would God let them fail so miserably?
Maybe the test isn't for the infant, maybe the test is for the parents who are scared for their child. Though disease may not be directly affecting the person in need of the trial it doesn't mean that it isn't for them. My mom's cancer was quite the trial for me, probably more so than it was for her. My sister's disease is quite a trial for me, posibly more so than for her. I'm not just saying that, I'm speaking the honest truth.
So he has to kill a child to put another human through a test? Seems cruel.
yup. but look at the world around you, J. god is cruel.
Then why would anyone worship him.
Mod
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
Any opinions?
Mod
Changed my picture. Go look! :o
Why? Because I have faith. Mine is special because this is how I do it, this is what gets me through my day, there isn't no other way.
Still working on my song, must rhyme even if that requires poor grammar.