The Mom Test: How to talk to customers & learn if your business is a good idea when everyone is lying to you

by Rob Fitzpatrick

You can’t help but laugh when you overhear these exchanges. “Someone should definitely make an X!” “Have you looked for an X?” “No, why?” “There are like 10 different kinds of X.” “Well, I didn't really need it anyway.” Long story short, that person is a complainer, not a customer.

Startups are about focusing and executing on a single, scalable idea rather than jumping on every good one which crosses your desk.

These nudges don’t need to be complicated. People love talking about their opinions and emotions. Digging into a signal is basically just giving them permission to do a brain dump.

What all this does mean is that if you’ve got heavy product risk (as opposed to pure market risk), then you’re not going to be able to prove as much of your business through conversations alone. The conversations give you a starting point, but you’ll have to start building product earlier and with less certainty than if you had pure market risk.

The goal of cold conversations is to stop having them.

If it sounds weird to unexpectedly interview people, then that’s only because you’re thinking of them as interviews instead of conversations. The only thing people love talking about more than themselves is their problems. By taking an interest in the problems and minutia of their day, you’re already more interesting than 99% of the people they’ve ever met. Rule of thumb: If it’s not a formal meeting, you don’t need to make excuses about why you’re there or even mention that you’re starting a business. Just ask about their life.

Rule of thumb: Kevin Bacon’s 7 degrees of separation applies to customer conversations. You can find anyone you need if you ask for it a couple times.

Vision / Framing / Weakness / Pedestal / Ask

In my case, I once bottlenecked so hard that our CTO quit while saying, “We’re never going to succeed if you keep changing what we’re doing.” In my defence, the stuff I’d learned was true (at least, I think it was). But it didn’t matter anyway since I hadn’t properly communicated it to the rest of the team.

If there’s no workaround and you have to bite the bullet, remember that confidence is domain-specific and that it will stop being so awkward as you do it more.

Rule of thumb: Notes are useless if you don’t look at them.

Note taking aids in memory forrmation and retension

The Mom Test: Talk about their life instead of your idea Ask about specifics in the past instead of generics or opinions about the future Talk less and listen more

Getting back on track (avoiding bad data): Deflect compliments Anchor fluff Dig beneath opinions, ideas, requests, and emotions

Mistakes and symptoms: Fishing for compliments. “I’m thinking of starting a business... so, do you think it will work?” “I had an awesome idea for an app — do you like it?” Exposing your ego (aka The Pathos Problem). “So here’s that top-secret project I quit my job for... what do you think?” “I can take it — be honest and tell me what you really think!” Being pitchy. “No no, I don’t think you get it...” “Yes, but it also does this!” Being too formal. “So, first off, thanks for agreeing to this interview. I just have a few questions for you and then I’ll let you get back to your day…” “On a scale of 1 to 5, how much would you say you…” “Let’s set up a meeting.” Being a learning bottleneck. “You just worry about the product. I’ll handle the customers.” “Because the customers told me so!” “I don’t have time to talk to people — I need to get back to coding!” Collecting compliments instead of facts and commitments. “We’re getting a lot of positive feedback.” “Everybody I’ve talked to loves the idea.”

The process before, during and after the meeting: If you haven’t yet, choose a focused, findable segment With your team, decide your big 3 learning goals If relevant, decide on ideal next steps and commitments If conversations are the right tool, figure out who to talk to Create a series of your best guesses about what the person cares about If a question could be answered via desk research, do that first Frame the conversation Keep it casual Ask good questions which pass The Mom Test Deflect compliments, anchor fluff, and dig beneath signals Take good notes If relevant, press for commitment and next steps With your team, review your notes and key customer quotes If relevant, transfer notes into permanent storage Update your beliefs and plans Decide on the next 3 big questions

Results of a good meeting: Facts — concrete, specific facts about what they do and why they do it (as opposed to the bad data of compliments, fluff, and opinions) Commitment — They are showing they’re serious by giving up something they value such as meaningful amounts of time, reputation risk, or money Advancement — They are moving to the next step of your real-world funnel and getting closer to a sale

Signs you’re just going through the motions: You’re talking more than they are They are complimenting you or your idea You told them about your idea and don’t have next steps You don’t have notes You haven’t looked through your notes with your team You got an unexpected answer and it didn’t change your idea You weren’t scared of any of the questions you asked You aren’t sure which big question you’re trying to answer You aren’t sure why you’re having the meeting

Writing it down — signal symbols: :)Excited :( Angry :|Embarrassed ☇ Pain or problem (symbol is a lightning bolt) ⨅ Goal or job-to-be-done (symbol is a soccer/football goal) ☐ Obstacle ⤴Workaround ^Background or context (symbol is a distant mountain) ☑ Feature request or purchasing criteria ＄Money or budgets or purchasing process ♀ Mentioned a specific person or company ☆ Follow-up task

Signs you aren’t pushing for commitment and advancement: A pipeline of zombie leads Ending product meetings with a compliment Ending product meetings with no clear next steps Meetings which “went well” They haven’t given up anything of value

Asking for and framing the meeting: Vision — half-sentence of how you’re making the world better Framing — where you’re at and what you’re looking for Weakness — where you’re stuck and how you can be helped Pedestal — show that they, in particular, can provide that help Ask — ask for help

The big prep question: “What do we want to learn from these guys?”