Beth’s Comments (group member since Mar 06, 2014)

Beth’s comments from the Nothing But Reading Challenges group.

chapter 31 -
(view spoiler)[I like the bit about Goya's sketch of Jonathan Strange and the dead Neapolitans. (p 333): "In Madrid the Spanish artist, Francisco Goya, made a sketch in red chalk of Jonathan Strange surrounded by the dead Neapolitans. In the picture Strange is seated on the ground. His gaze is cast down and his arms hang limp at his sides and his whole attitude speaks of helplessness and despair. The Neapolitans crowd around him; some are regarding him hungrily; others have expressions of supplication on their
faces; one is putting out a tentative finger to stroke the back of his hair. It is, needless to say, quite different from any other portrait of Jonathan Strange." (hide spoiler)]

chapter 38 - A great quote about the Raven King on the last page. I just love these kinds of details that hint at something larger than the main story:
(view spoiler)[
"No one knows why in 1138 he caused the moon to disappear from the sky and made it travel through all the lakes and rivers of England. We do not know why in 1202 he
quarreled with Winter and banished it from his kingdom, so that for four years Northern England enjoyed continual Summer. Nor do we know why for thirty consecutive nights in May and June of 1345 every man, woman and child in the kingdom dreamt that they had been gathered together upon a dark red plain beneath a pale golden sky to build a tall black tower. Each night they laboured, waking in the morning in their own beds completely exhausted. The dream only ceased to trouble them when, on the thirtieth night, the tower and its fortifications were completed." (hide spoiler)]

chapter 39 - (view spoiler)[I really love the conversation between Strange and Norrell in this chapter. It's one of the most intense scenes in the book.

The footnote about the glovemaker's child is one of my favorites in the whole book. Also, this scene reveals that Norrell's resentment of the Raven King isn't just philosophical, but a result of disappointment: "Do you think that he cares what happens to England? I tell you he does not. He abandoned us long ago."

Of course Norrell is partly wrong about magic being "all that either of us cares about," since Strange has Arabella.

Favorite quotes from chapter 39:

"One room contained nothing but a high mirror. Room and mirror seemed to have quarreled at some time for the mirror showed the room to be filled with birds but the room was empty. Yet the glovemaker's child could hear birdsong all around her."

"We are magicians. It is the beginning and end of me and the beginning and end of you. It is all that either of us cares about. If you leave this house today and pursue your own course, who will you talk to? - as we are talking now? - there is no one. You will be quite alone." In a tone almost of pleading, he whispered, "Do not do this!"

"I am certain now to get no sight or smell of the books which matter! How is a magician to exist without books? Let someone explain that to me. It is like asking a politician to achieve high office without the benefit of bribes or patronage."

"Yes, he does love me. Or at least he tells me that he does. But what good is that to me? It has never warmed me when I was cold - and I always am cold, you know. It has never shortened a long, dreary ball by so much as a minute or stopped a procession through long, ghostly corridors. It has never saved me from any misery at all." (hide spoiler)]

I'm back to this thread sooner than I thought I would be. (view spoiler)[First I'll add my favorite bit from the fairy gentleman, it's along similar lines as Sarah's quote:
"These guests of mine on whose account you are so scrupulous, they are all my vassals and subjects. There is not a one who would dare to criticize me or anyone I would choose to call my friend. And if they did, why! We could always kill them!"

The incongruity of the fairy's regard for Stephen (and he really seem to think he's doing Stephen a favor, weird as that is from a human pov) and his general ruthlessness is great. (hide spoiler)]

About chapter 19, (view spoiler)[ I like how beginning of this chapter notes that Stephen Black has the same "strange malady" as Lady Pole, but no one notices because Stephen is just a servant. Stephen's enchantment happens sooner than I remembered, I thought it was in the Jonathan Strange section. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 20 - here's a link to an explanation of the Tarot reading in this chapter that I found interesting:
https://faeawarenessmonth.wordpress.c...

(view spoiler)[The cards all turning into the Raven King is one of my favorite moments in the book. If this book is ever adapted to the screen, I think this needs to be included, as it's both important and wonderfully dramatic. (hide spoiler)]

Cynthia, it's clear that Norrell wants to sort of "domesticate" magic, but he wants it to be practiced his way, not to be completely theoretical. I think a scene earlier, in chapter 18, (view spoiler)[ Norrell's argument with the fairy gentleman (hide spoiler)] shows that he does care about magic for its own sake, not just as a way to establish his reputation. (view spoiler)[His attitude toward Lady Pole is pretty ruthless - he says, "What is the fate of one young woman compared to the success of English magic?" - but I don't think "the success of English magic" is something he wants just for himself. (hide spoiler)]

I noticed a neat bit of foreshadowing this time around in chapter 27. Um, my other spoiler tags have been for the chapters I'm discussing, I guess I should mention that this one is a spoiler for the end of the "Jonathan Strange" section: (view spoiler)[Strange forgetting the errands Arabella asked him to do establishes that he will fail to notice what's wrong with her later. (hide spoiler)]

ch 28(view spoiler)[ - The footnote about the auction where Arabella bids against Norrell and loses is interesting. Norrell is such a jerk sometimes! Poor Arabella. I remember being a little unsatisfied with the role of women in this book, although the related short story collection The Ladies of Grace Adieu makes up for it somewhat. I'd like to reread that too sometime. (hide spoiler)]

Andrea and Cynthia - Your comments made me remember something about Childermass from earlier, chapter 4. The text doesn't come right out and say it, but when Segundus agrees to write a letter to the London Times re. Norrell's enchantment of the statues in the cathedral, I think it's implied that Childermass is using magic to persuade him. (p 34 of my edition). Childermass looks at him silently "as if he were waiting for Mr Segundus to say one thing more - as if he fully expected that Mr Segundus would say it - indeed as if nothing in the world were more certain."

Also from an earlier chapter - Mr Norrell seeing Lady Pole in a dark corner that he thought was unoccupied is foreshadowing for (view spoiler)[her not-quite-there state later on. And when he does notice her, of course there's a "conspiracy to deny that she was ill." (hide spoiler)]

I will comment when I start the Jonathan Strange section (which begins with ch. 23).

This is one of my favorite books of all time, but I've never had a chance to talk about it with anyone else who's read it. I can probably follow discussions of later chapters because I remember it well though. I can skip pages if I have to. Is there a set time for commenting on the book? I mean, if I don't finish the book as fast as others, will the thread close before I can comment.

I'd like to point out a passage from p. 25 of my copy, chapter 1, because the bit about the town of York containing things larger than itself seems to tie in with what the book is all about.
And I hope that all my readers are acquainted with an old English Cathedral town or I fear the significance of Mr Norrell’s chusing that particular place will be lost upon them. They must understand that in an old Cathedral town the great old church is not one building among many; it is the building - different from all others in scale, beauty, and solemnity. Even in modern times when an old Cathedral town may have provided itself with all the elegant appurtenances of civic buildings, assembly and meeting rooms (and York was well-stocked with these) the Cathedral rises above them - a witness to the devotion of our forefathers. It is as if the town contains within itself something larger than itself. When going about ones business in the muddle of narrow streets one is sure to lose sight of the Cathedral, but then the town will open out and suddenly it is there, many times taller and many times larger than any other building, and one realizes that one has reached the heart of the town and that all streets and lanes have in some way led here, to a place of mysteries much deeper than any Mr Norrell knew of.

This was funny:
"You must get me a house, Childermass. Get me a house that says to those that visit it that magic is respectable profession - no less than Law and a great deal more so than Medicine."
Childermass inquired drily if Mr. Norrell (who knew there were such things as jokes in the world or people would not write about them in books, but who had never actually been introduced to a joke or shaken its hand) considered a while before replying at length that no, he did not think they could quite claim that.

A new challenge for the month of January 2014: Time for Tea
level: A cup of tea, 5 books (completed)
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

I'll have A cup of tea: 5 books

1. Read a book with the author's name beginning with B, O, I or L
All The Bells on Earth by James Blaylock
finished 1/25/2015
2. Choose your tea - Read a book with a color on the cover to match your type of tea
White - The Lost Books of The Odyssey - finished 1/3/2015
Green - Age Of Bronze Volume 3A: Betrayal - finished 1/2/2015
4. Sweet? Read books to indicate how sweet you like your tea.
Artificial sweetener - fourth in series - The Grey King - finished 1/1/2014
No sugar - Standalone novel - Alif the Unseen 1/25/2015

I nominate:
Nation - Terry Pratchett

A Midsummer Night's Dream
Lysistrata
The Odyssey
Beowulf: A New Verse Translation
Midnight's Children

An American Childhood
Pilgrim at Tinker Creek
Alice in Sunderland
Palestine

A few of my favorites were already nominated, but I want to add some anyway.
I will nominate 5:
- TH White
- JRR Tolkien
- Ursula Le Guin
- Lewis Carroll
- Neil Gaiman

Door

I just finished this. It's a reread for me and I'm interested to see what people think of it. I love the art; there's a great deal of variety to it. The art is done in paint, but I think there's also ink with some photography at the end, is that right?

I found the story to be beautifully told but pretty disturbing. When I was looking for reviews I found one which suggested that (view spoiler)[ the pregnant woman who was attacked was the mermaid. It makes sense; the narrator mentioned before that "perhaps she was getting fatter" (which could mean she was pregnant) and the conversation with Morton that the boy overheard may have been about her pregnancy. (hide spoiler)] I can't believe I didn't pick up on that before.

I really like this. I think it's one of Neil Gaiman's best short stories.

orange

Lolita
378 pages

Current Total: 1,631,542

I read Sandman in 2011, but this was the second volume I read because I had started with vol. 3, Dream Country. Here are my comments on each issue.

Issue 1: Sleep of the Just

This isn't as interesting as later issues. It moves slowly, and it has the kind of conventional plot that can't really sustain a slow, atmospheric story for me.

The villains are really stupid here. An end to Death wouldn't just make everyone immortal in a painless way - it would also prevent death for those who were in excruciating pain and would otherwise die. This is set during WWI, so that probably applies to many soldiers. It's also a bit strange that Dr. Hathaway's grief makes him want to ensure that "no one ever need die again" - why would be more scared of death as opposed to wanting to see his son again?

But the disaster caused by Dream's imprisonment is interesting. What Dream does to Alex Burgess at the end is really disturbing, and I love that the very first issue raises questions about how much of a good guy Dream is.

from the online Sandman annotations: I've excerpted a bit below because the link has spoilers for later volumes.
http://www.arschkrebs.de/sandman/anno...

Page 6 (in the trade paperback this is page 18)
Panel 4

Burgess gives the name of "old lords": Namtar, Allatu, Morax, Naberius, Klesh, Vepar, Maymon. Morax is certainly the name of a bull-headed demon appearing in The Demon. Maymon may be a reference to Mammon, a Greek word for riches. Mammon is also the name of a devil in the Key of Solomon, based on the line "one cannot serve God and Mammon" in the scripture.
Panel 5

More names: Ashema-Deva, Maborym, Horvendile. Ashema-Deva is Persian, a god or devil in the Zoroastrian pantheon. He is more familiar to Westerners under the name Asmodeus. Horvendile is a name that appears in both Lord Dunsany and James Branch Cabell. In Dunsany (an early fantasist and playwright, active in the early decades of this century, best known work perhaps The King of Elfland's Daughter), Horvendile is a god. In Cabell's "Poictesme" cycle, he is referred to as a demiurge, a being who, though walking through the story, is above it, and possibly pulling the strings. He also keeps swine that feed on human flesh."

The annotations also point out that the at bottom of this page there is a close-up of Unity's lips, and (view spoiler)[the image resembles Desire's sigil. A terrific bit of foreshadowing. (hide spoiler)]

Issue 2: Imperfect Hosts - I don't have much to say about this one.

Dream addresses the oldest of the Fates by her Greek name, Atropos, but middle-aged one (in appearance anyway) refers to their old names as Tisiphone, Alecto, and Maegara - the names of the Furies. When I first read this, I sort of knew what the Furies were, but not that they had individual names.

Issue 3: Dream shows a little compassion here, for once, when he is tempted to leave Rachel the way she is but Constantine convinces him to give her a peaceful death.

Issue 4: I really like this issue. The Wood of the Suicides (a reference to Dante's Inferno) is a nice touch. It took me aback at first because the idea that people get sent to hell for committing suicide is disturbing from a modern perspective. But later in Sandman (view spoiler)[it's revealed that the suicides who go to hell are those who believe they belong there. (hide spoiler)] The duel with Choronzon very clever and is one of my favorite moments in Sandman. On the other hand, Dream punching Squatterbloat isn't really his style in later volumes, and it's a reminder of how different this first volume is.

Issue 5: I like this line:
"People think dreams aren't real because they aren't made of matter, of particles. Dreams are real. But they made of viewpoints, of images, of memories and puns and lost hopes."

Issue 6: 24 Hours
I'm sure this is too disturbing for some readers to like, but I like it, even though it is all kinds of messed up. I love the narration of this issue; it's the first issue of Sandman where that really stands out to me.
I got chills rereading (view spoiler)[ the line "She's realized the real problem with stories. If you keep them going long enough they always end in death. (hide spoiler)] because of the foreshadowing.

The psychological manipulation is sort of fascinating. Dee never directly lifts a finger against any of the people in the diner; he makes them kill themselves and each other instead. One of the most disturbing moments is hour 15, when Dee temporarily lets his victims realize what he's doing to them. It's especially horrifying because it's not the end; they don't even get the closure of dying with the knowledge of what's happening to them.

Issue 7: Sound & Fury:
It's interesting that Dream decides not to punish John Dee. It might indicate a change from his usual vindictiveness - but I think part of the reason Dream isn't as cruel to John Dee as to Alex Burgess is because Dee didn't directly involve him. The situation with Nada also affected him personally in a way that Dee's crimes didn't. So I guess Dream's capacity for forgiveness is progress of a sort, but it's still highly selective.

Issue 8: The Sound of Her Wings
Death made me laugh. But the mother's realization that her baby was dead was a very sad moment. Also, I cried a bit thinking about (view spoiler)[how this ties in with the final chapter of The Kindly Ones. "The last time we had this conversation, you threw a loaf of bread at me." (hide spoiler)]

On page 229, the graffiti reads: "Dreams make no promises" which I think is an interesting contrast between Dream's function and Death's. Death is one of the few certainties.

The Djinn in the Nightingale's Eye: Five Fairy Stories
274 pages

Current Total: 1,536,716

I'm not sure if I'll be able to get this from the library in time - there are a bunch of other holds. But I hope to join the discussion.

O?

339 pages


99 pages


224 pages

Current total:1,434,795

Plus a monthly challenge for June 2014:
Get Royal Challenge - complete
Level 2: Blueblooded, 3 books
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...