Sully ’s Comments (group member since Mar 23, 2015)

Sully ’s comments from the Nothing But Reading Challenges group.

I was hoping to find Oregon Trail on Steam to buy and play this weekend, but no such luck. I think I can stream it for free online though since it is so old, so I'm going to try to play it this weekend =)

You make a good point about them following the beaten path, so to say, from the wagon groups in front of them. I guess I didn't really think about it. I can't imagine the first group of the spring though, once the snow has blanketed and covered some of the trails. If I had been Jeff, like you I would have tried my luck in a different city. I like nature and I'm not that fond of large cities, but I am certainly no trailblazer either! =) I would have thought that maybe Lee would have actually had it better off in a city on the Eastern coast, where the gold has already been mined. It certainly would have been easier to hide her power, and her uncle wouldn't really have thought to look for her there, right? I think it might have actually made more sense for her to go to a city instead of heading west, expect for the fact that she had already lost everything in her life she had ever loved, and was clinging to the one person she had left that she thought she could trust (Jeff). Interesting thought though, to be sure!

It definitely picks up the pace and gets more action, but I agree that it seems like a missed opportunity/missed mark.

I am not that fond of the title either. I think it's because like you said, she has to hide her identity. And even when (view spoiler)[Jeff finds out her identity (hide spoiler)], she still has secrets she keeps and truths she hides, so that part of her is still hidden/that part of her is a "Stranger". And she definitely walked the Earth. But I definitely think there could have been a better, more well suited title. I like the cover though!

I never got to play Oregon Trail. My husband was obsessed with that game though, back in its day. It's a game I still eventually want to play. I'm sure I could waste hundreds of hours on it, and it seems to have a lot of key components I like in the few types of games I play.

Yeah, the Road-o-meter seemed kind of pointless. Maybe they did have that kind of ingenuity and technology back then, and it wouldn't have been too hard to calibrate: all you would need would be the diameter of the wheel to determine the number of turns in a mile. But still, you're right. And it really only comes into play once or twice during the entire story.

I wonder what kind of maps they had back then? I doubt many, if any, had made the trek across and back from California to really map the route. Lewis and Clark did their expedition about 45 years before this story takes place, but their aim wasn't for California and went largely north while going west, so I would suspect the route most traveled to the gold rush would have been different. It definitely would have been an unsettling and terrifying journey, to be sure. Not sure I would have had the gumption to do it.

I actually have a somewhat relaxing weekend this week, so I wrapped up my reading this morning. I'll hold off on dissecting it with you because I don't want to spoil anything =) I will say there was a little bit more character development later in the story, at least of some of the minor characters. I do still wish we could have focused more on the characters and their troubles. After all, this type of journey just seems the perfect setting for that.

Up to Chapter 23 (pg 276)

This book seems to follow a common theme for this style of novel where the MC is making a long trek: it gets kind of boring. The plot starts to lull in several places lately it seems, even though Carson seems to be doing as much as she can to push it along, spanning months as quickly as possible. I think my fundamental problem I'm feeling right now is that every time there is a bit of action, it comes in short bursts, and then I'm just left feeling like, "Ok, what now? How long do I have to wait for the next bit of excitement?" For example, just recently with the (view spoiler)[stampede of the buffalo. It is a bit exciting, but even the injury to Major isn't really gripping for me since we haven't seen a lot of character development yet. And it seems like Carson had ulterior motives with this, and she has Jeff rescue Lee, and she is still working that awkward what-are-we-what-aren't-we between the two of them (hide spoiler)].

I'm still chugging along, but the story is definitely slowing down and since we still aren't getting a whole lot of development of Lee, I'm not liking it as much as when I first started.

Up to Chapter 13 (pg 135)

I started Girl of Fire and Thorns, but it was a DNF for me. Maybe I should give it another shot.

Lee irritates me a little bit; I think it's because she keeps saying she (view spoiler)[can't afford anything after being robbed, but then she keeps going and buying stuff! (hide spoiler)]. That fits in to what you were saying about her being an imperfect heroine, and how she's struggling on her own. And I definitely get that. But that one little detail irks me a bit.

That's a good point about how your opinion of a book can change as you're reflecting on it. So far this book is still middle of the scale to me, but the setting is still holding my attention (plus I love horseys!). I do like at the end of chapter 12 how she points out (view spoiler)[that not everyone is like the brothers or Uncle Hiram and that she's basically trusting these three rough sailor strangers, just as her mama told her to trust someone. That's a huge leap of faith, and a terrifying one at that, especially after what she's just been through. I honestly think it's a bit foolish as well, to be so trusting, but given the alternatives, I think she's probably making the right decision by trusting her mother's advice (hide spoiler)].

Emily wrote: "But, unfortunately, so far I'm not super interested. That's probably because I'm not connecting with the MC yet. We have gotten a lot of action, but I don't have much sense of Leah- she seems pretty bland to me. She certainly doesn't seem like the brightest person. (view spoiler)"

I think she sort of comes up with a plan by (view spoiler)[deciding to alter her father's clothes to fit her better and to chop her hair off to disguise herself as a boy as she goes to join Jeff (hide spoiler)]. But you are definitely right in that she's kind of bland so far. Hopefully her character will grow with the plot.


Emily wrote: "I also find Lee's voice somewhat distracting. The writing style is mostly pretty normal and modern, although too simple for my taste, but there are occasional time-period and rural-dialect elements that I'm finding a bit jarring."

I hadn't noticed that yet but I'm sure I will start to now =)

Yeah, I've been less than impressed with how Jeff handled things, but I can see how it worked into the plot.

Up to Chapter 7 (pg 65)

I feel like a lot has happened very quickly! We definitely hit the ground running with this novel. On one hand, I'm not sure it affords a lot of character development. But then on the other hand, I think it may be the driving force behind Lee's development for the series. It definitely drives her decisions up to the point I've read.

I'm loving the setting and really setting my hopes high because there really aren't too many "western" type young adult novels to be found. Even with the paranormal element of Lee's water witching for gold, I'm still finding it realistic so far.

I like what her mom says about trusting someone. It's ironic, of course, in the mom's context, but I think it's interesting with where the plot is. For instance, (view spoiler)[until she realized it was her creepy uncle that killed her father, I thought maybe Jefferson had done it. I was just as paranoid as they were about someone finding out and what that would mean for Lee! (hide spoiler)].

What do you think about the relationship weaved for Lee and Jeff? I realize a LOT happened in the opening pages, but it felt awkward and kind of rushed. To be fair though, even Lee feels this way about it, which at least makes it feel a bit more realistic.

Finished

I got a question (I may have skimmed over the explanation to be honest). But if (view spoiler)[they already have developed the green drug to use on other universe Theo so that they can spy on Meg's universe Theo, then why is Meg so important as to go through kidnapping her dad, faking his death, etc. etc.? I thought Meg was special because she can hold onto her memories thanks to whatever Triad did with the Accident and the Thunderbird thing. But if they have the green drug already developed, is she really that special anymore? (hide spoiler)]

I thought the plot of this book was okay, but it got too heavily weighed down in the romance, and Meg's extreme opinions on Paul - I have to kill him to I'm madly in love with him - kind of ruin her whole character for me.

Discussion Questions Oct 16/17 Chapters 15-23

1)This book reminds me a little of Every Day, where the protagonist jump into a new life every day, where his action impact each life. In this book, with each dimension the main 3 make decisions that will affect their “host bodies”- their choices affect another life. How does this complicate their travels?

I think this could have been written a lot better. They don't really seem to care much about the impact on their host bodies. It doesn't seem consistent either, what they gain from the native version. For example, Meg knows how to converse in Russian because her host does, but she doesn't know who her family members are in that world? I don't know.



3)Do you wish you could find out happened in the other dimensions after Marguerite and the boys left? They hop into these lives and cause chaos and then leave- I find myself wondering what happened next. And wouldn't you be curious if you had lived in these bodies to find out what happened once you were gone?

I don't find myself attached to these characters much at all, so I'm not bothered that we don't find out what happens once they leave. I didn't really even care when Paul died in Russia. It seemed so hurriedly rushed/written, like the author just wanted to get to the next world so she could rework the love triangle romance again.

Up to halfway through Chapter 16

Can I just say that Meg is really starting to get on my nerves? I realize the the majority of teenage girls are more... (view spoiler)[promiscuous than I was at that age, but the fact that she readily admits that having unprotected sex was probably not the smartest thing she's ever done... and then turns around and has sex with him again immediately after? I wanted to slap that girl across her face and be like "Have you lost all common sense?" Not to mention that she also readily admits she would have slept with Theo in London if he would have let her, but now she's all head over heals for Paul. *shakes head* I also don't think I would force another version of myself to lose my virginity without my consent. It's a very strange notion, but it doesn't seem right that our main character Meg took that moment away from the Russian Meg. (hide spoiler)].

Sorry, just had to rant for a second! =)



Emily wrote: "I did like it! It's not a perfect book, but I gave it 3.75 stars. It really made me think a lot, which I enjoyed (especially as I did it as a buddy read with Elise). "

It wasn't a must recommend to all friends book, but it was certainly interesting and definitely unique.

Christina wrote: "I think Meg is a poorly developed character. She's too erratic. Her actions don't make logical sense, even if this is written from a teen POV.

And I was thinking the same thing about Theo. I have a feeling he did have something to do with Meg's father's death. "


I agree. It seems like Meg's development is more centered around the love triangle than anything else. We learn about her past, but it's always snippets relating to Paul and/or Theo. Even her development on how she's dealing with her father's death seems to revolve around the two of them. Hopefully she'll be able to break out of that shell in the next section!



Emily wrote: "You make a great point here! I was thinking that Theo couldn't be that guilty because he allowed Marguerite to come with him, but maybe he wants her to get stuck in another dimension or something to get rid of her too. "

I haven't been able to convince myself 100% that he's guilty, but I just get the sense that it's more likely at this point that he's up to something than Paul is. That's kind of the point of the story right now that's holding my attention is... who the heck killed her dad? And what is so evil about this head hancho guy from the company that sponsored their research that Paul is chasing him through the universes?

Discussion Questions October 12th –October 14th Chapters 6-14

1. What do think about all these flashbacks Marguerite has about Paul and everything that lead up to her father’s death and she and Theo travelling to other universes? To me it feels like a lead to a romantic interest and not explanations as to why Paul is guilty for her father’s death.

This book is definitely starting to having a love triangle feel to it that I'm not all that happy about. The romance is taking away from the plot, that seems to have all but stalled out. Instead of trying to figure out what happened to her father and get back to her own world, Meg is just kind of chilling out in Russia. If anything, the plot has completely diverged with the (view spoiler)[seemingly assassination attempt at the end of chapter 14 (hide spoiler)].



2. Paul and Theo seem to have a brotherly bond, I really miss an explanation of way Marguerite and Theo would think that Paul killed Marguerite’s dad. Have you read a reason other than that Paul acted paranoid and Theo behaved like an addict? Why don’t they just talk to each other?

Yeah, that whole part of the plot of why they jumped into the alternate universes in the first places seems to have fallen completely off the rails. (view spoiler)[Meg went from being completely sure that Paul killed her father and seeking absolute vengeance to being completely sure that he is innocent and that she is madly in love with him (hide spoiler)]. To which I just have to say um.... WTF? If she cared so much about him, wouldn't she have given him the benefit of the doubt and let him explain to begin with? Meg definitely irritates me a little bit in her ability to swing so quickly from one extreme to another.



3. Addition to Christina’s question #3. No Beatles in this universe. It makes me sad, the nonexistence of a band that broke up…Which band would you like to keep throughout universes and which band or artist could you do without? The same goes for books/authors, which book should have been written in all of the universes?

I could do without most books and artists. I would be really sad to see BT not have the career he has had though. With Electronic Opus out this week and the whole new genre of electronic symphonic made thanks to this album (along with all his groundbreaking work before - like basically the birth of trance music) it would be a sad, sad world without him. No doubt EDM music still would have developed, but I don't think it would be the same without his masterful touch. As for books... well, I could go on for quite a while there. I probably could have lived without having to colormark Shakespeare's sonnets in high school though =)



4. What do you think is Marguerite justified to kill Paul in revenge for her father’s death? Don’t you think they (she and Theo) need to do more investigating. It seems to me Marguerite is starting to question her own motives for wanting revenge on Paul.

Kind of already covered this a bit with my musings from last section. I am starting to get the sneaky suspicion that maybe Theo someone killed her father and that he's intentions for pulling her into the alternate universes with the Thunderbids were not pure of heart. I think that might have been part of why he was apologizing before, because perhaps he regretted at least part of it. But I guess we will see!

Christina wrote: "That's true. And if even more alternate realities were created every time they jump somewhere new, how would they know where the next person was going to jump? You know, since they always know where to follow Paul each time he jumps? I hope that is explained. Ahhh, I love all these speculations!"

I think they alluded to somehow programming the Firebird to the next universe over, which was how they were suedo tracking Paul. But then my question becomes what happens if they don't actually exist in that dimension? Do they simply vanish because they have no host version of themselves to inhabit? And it doesn't make sense that there would only be one universe over. I would think the multiverse would be a minimum of three dimensions, so you would then realistically have a bunch of neighboring universes that are the next one over. So yeah, I guess that doesn't really make sense!

Emily wrote: "So I recently heard on GR when discussing a different book that it's a common theory that frequently shifting POV in a book keeps readers from identifying and connecting with the characters. Do you agree? While I don't think this is always true, it does seem to be the case for me here. Often I love books with multiple POVs because I get to know more characters well and gain a more complete picture of events, but I think alternating between five was too many, and I'm not sure the author has quite the strengths necessary to pull it off. I just don't really care about any of these characters enough to be interested in what happens. I've been stalled on this one for a few days because I was starting the BOM, but I haven't had any huge desire to get back to it, even though I'm in the midst of the climax."

I think telling a story from multiple POVs makes it more difficult to identify with the characters, but not impossible. And really, I don't think it's the POV that makes it difficult but the shear number of characters. I think any novel that has a large number of main characters and side characters can be more difficult to identify with than a book with a small cast. But I think that is a sign of a true writer, if they are able to pull it off. I think it is certainly more difficult to write (I have a series I am writing that have seven main characters and changes POV between them and it is definitely not easy).




Emily wrote: "This book is interesting because despite the characters being criminal types from a slum, they don't swear much that I have noticed. A few times they've used swear words in other languages, but not to any realistic degree. I've read a few books recently (all of them YA) that have fit in different places along the swearing continuum, including one that had a fair amount and one that used euphemisms instead of the actual words, so the lack of it in this book got me thinking about the subject. What is your opinion on swearing in books? "

I hadn't even though about that but you are right. I give writers some slack when it is an alternate realty/world they are writing in, because the customs could be totally different there, just as how in different dialects of English different words count as swear words (like 'ass' for British people does not have the same swearing connotation as 'ass' for Americans, and I believe - if I remember correctly - that 'fart' has a much stronger meaning for British than Americans, etc.

I think authors should try to be honest to the characters they are writing when it comes to swearing (even though excessive swearing can get really annoying for me to read, like Earl did a bit in Me and Earl and the Dying Girl). I know when my husband plays GTA all I can hear coming from the game is *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* and it's really annoying, but I bet that it isn't that far off from how some people actually talk.

Christina wrote: "I forgot about Timeline! I read that a LONG time ago! I even have a personalized signature from Crichton when I had him sign my copy at a Borders. It was really good!!!! I should re-read it sometime because it’s been about 20 years since I read it, and I pretty much forgot everything!"


If you ever want to do a buddy (re-)read of it, let me know! I cannot read that book too many times and it's probably been a year or two since I read it last =)

1. First impressions about the writing style and plot? Have you ever read a book with alternate dimensions before?

Michael Crichton's Timeline is one of my favorite books of all time, and it deals a bit with alternate universes, although I think it's classified more as time travel. I think the plot is a little too heavily focused on the romantic tension between our lead and the two guys, but it's still held my attention.



2. What are your opinions about Paul and Theo? Paul seems the most mysterious, but at the end of this section, it seems like Theo might be just as mysterious. Do you think Marguerite can trust that Paul really did kill her Dad or that Theo can be trusted?

I think our opinions on both are going to be heavily weighed by Meg's opinions, since the narrative is told from her POV. I'm still not sure Paul's reasoning behind stealing the Thunderbird, but he definitely seems to be the stereotypical view of what people think of scientists (super nerdy, super focused). I'm a bit inclined to think along Karen's lines, where I'm not entirely sure Paul is 100% to blame yet. After all, we haven't seen the motivation of what would drive him to do such a thing yet.

That last scene where (view spoiler)[Meg finds Theo shooting up in the bathroom was surprising (hide spoiler)], but not completely unexpected either. I think Gray is trying to force a little too much romantic entanglement there so early on.


4. If you were able to travel to an alternate dimension, would you want to? If so, where would you want to go?

I definitely would, but not for personal reasons. I would love to see the science, to see the proof of alternate universes. I wouldn't particularly want to go anywhere special, I would just want to see how one difference in a split in time could have a butterfly/snowball effect over the length of time since the event occurred (so maybe like if the meteor hadn't wiped out dinosaurs, where would evolution have taken us by current time's standards).



Megan wrote: "4. I'd jump to the one in which I chose math education as my field of study, instead of engineering. Just to see how it could all pan out. "

That's cool that you're in engineering! I did engineering as well (and wanted to be a math teacher when I was younger before I started university). I use my engineering skills and all that math I learned to tutor in math and physics to still kind of go back to my roots =)



I'm not sure I'm completely convinced by Gray's writing/characterization of Meg yet, but I realize it's hard to develop a character who is trying to blend into an alternate version of herself. I think the revenge thought process is really heavy, but I've never personally experienced something like what she's gone through, so maybe I would act the same way. I don't think I would track him done through the universes just to kill him though. How would that make what she's doing any different that what Paul did to her father? I don't think murder necessarily justifies murder/don't think she'll find any peace in killing him. It won't bring back her dad.

Logan wrote: "I will read the next one. It's apparently only a duology and I'd like to see if they can all overcome their personal demons and make peace with their lives. "

Didn't realize it is only going to be a duology. When I finished Six of Crows I figured I wouldn't continue the series. But if there is only one book left, I'll probably give it a second chance.

Finished

Definitely not my favorite. The fact that (view spoiler)[Van Eck had no intention of actually paying them and was going to double cross them at the end (hide spoiler)] was so predictable that I couldn't believe Kaz had not even considered. I figured it was coming the whole time. (view spoiler)[Considering how he had layered plans for everything else, it seems kind of absurd that he didn't have a contingency in place. I guess to some respect he did, with Wylan, but still. Van Eck got the better of him, Inej got smoked... I realize Barugo was probably going for the shock factor but I didn't like it (hide spoiler)]. It felt like 400+ pages of build up for not much delivery.

There was a solid 50 pages or so that were actually pretty interesting to read, but they didn't really carry the story for me. I probably won't continue the series since (view spoiler)[Inej was the only character I really liked. If you took out all the drama with Matthias, I also kind of liked Nina too... and look what happened to her (hide spoiler)].

What did you guys think of the ending/story in general?

Up to Chapter XXV (pg 301)

Logan wrote: "I'm up to chapter 22 or 23 I think, and you do get some backstory for Nina and Matthias but none of it has really changed my opinion of either of them."

Same here. If anything, it made me like their pairing even less. Granted, I liked Nina a little for (view spoiler)[saving him, even though he had basically called her a dog. But it seems like their feelings have no basis at all. Their "romance" comes from them just sleeping huddled together for warmth? That turned the tides and made her completely forget what he does/how he treats Grisha? Did not like that at all (hide spoiler)]


Emily wrote: "Kaz is seeming younger and more likable because he's showing more vulnerabilities. But (view spoiler) So on the whole, I'm definitely liking Kaz less."

I like the point you made there. To me, the vulnerability we see where (view spoiler)[he starts shaking and then passes out (hide spoiler)] just seems uncharacteristic to me. Bardugo has built him up to this kind of unattainable level of almost evil, so even with this I don't like him. Also, I'm not sure the (view spoiler)[romance between him and Inej is well played out either. It seems a little similar to Matthias and Nina, where there are just these feelings, and even with the characters' backstories I am not feeling it (hide spoiler)].

Jesper surprised me too. I like the point he made (view spoiler)[about the reasons why he hid the truth about his abilities (hide spoiler)]

I'm still not hooked on the plot yet and it's taking me a while to get through it. I think (view spoiler)[almost everyone has their own agenda for the rescue. I agree that Kaz has not told anyone about his whole real plan for the rescue - after all, there have been surprises he's kept hidden the entire time so far, so I definitely think there is more to come. And we know Nina and Matthias have personal agendas too. And I feel like Wylan still has a secret as well that could impact how the rescue goes off (hide spoiler)]. We are at least getting to the main part of the plot now though, so I still have hope!

Emily wrote: "That's a good theory on Wylan, Elise, although (view spoiler)"

Good point. Had a brain fart there =)



Logan wrote: "And I totally agree that it feels like Nina is trying to change Matthias. It's great that she wants him to think of Grisha as humans, but trying to also push a love interest there feels too forced. "

I've never really understood the attraction/relationships where people like the person they think they can turn someone into. Most people do not like to change, and it's a receipt for disaster probably 9 times out of 10. Now if someone changes, then yeah - go ahead and like the person they become. I still don't know the whole backstory between them and if that's even what is happening/happened with Nina/Matthias, but their whole love interest feels really forced so far.

Logan wrote: "I've already forgotten though - do we know where Anya is?"

I missed the part about Joost. My eyes must have glazed over and I must have skimmed through that. Anya, if I recall correctly, (view spoiler)[was found dead in the water, I think trying to swim somewhere to get more of the drug? I kind of glazed through that as well since it was like reading through molasses a bit (hide spoiler)].



Logan wrote: "Is he Grisha? Regarding Rebecca's comment, this all takes place after the trilogy, right? So I don't think Kaz can be the Darkling."

I honestly have no idea when in time this series takes place compared to the Grisha trilogy. Does anyone know for certain?



Logan wrote: "The book summary includes Kaz in the crew, so I think he is one of the six and is the thief. We know he stole the painting from Van Eck and managed to escape the parley and the boat explosion."

The book sleeve on my version is a little vague. I must have read this wrong then. My bad! =)