Sully ’s Comments (group member since Mar 23, 2015)

Sully ’s comments from the Nothing But Reading Challenges group.

Up to Chapter XXVII

Jen wrote: " but then later, when we see them at home together (I can't remember when that was; maybe you haven't got to that point yet?)"
Haven't gotten there yet, they just (view spoiler)[got married though, so I suspect it is coming soon (hide spoiler)].

There are a few great quotes I love in the chapters I've read since my last post.

Firstly:

"'Is not general incivility the very essence of love?'" While I perhaps do not wholeheartedly agree, I definitely love what Austen means. People do start to form their own little personal bubbles when they start relationships or have feelings for one another. A lot of times (and I know I'm probably guilty of this as well though we try very hard not to fall victim to it) a couple becomes like one person, and they tend to do everything together and tend to ignore everyone else, as Austen points to here by being wholly engrossed in each other.

Secondly:

"I am not convinced... that I have never been much in love; for had I really experienced that pure and elevating passion, I should at present detest his very name, and wish him all manner of evil." Which Elizabeth mentions about (view spoiler)[Wickham (hide spoiler)]. I can definitely relate to Elizabeth's sentiment here.

I can't help but think how insanely fast things move and relationships evolve and end and start again in this novel. Was that normal for the time? It's hard to imagine, but it was a different world.

Emily wrote: "It's interesting though, (view spoiler) I think it's at least possible, anyway- what do you think?"
I agree. Though I haven't gotten all that great a feel of either one of their characters since they are both secondary, and I can definitely where you and Jen are coming from, and am inclined to see the same =)


Emily wrote: "I would rather be alone if it were feasible than in a bad relationship. However, in that time period and in circumstances like Elizabeth's, I might consider marriage to someone I had become friends with and respected and knew would treat me well, even if I didn't passionately love him."
That's a good point too. In that time and circumstance, if I didn't think I would ever find true happiness and love in a marriage, I think I would have been okay with settling with marrying a friend whom I related to and trusted. Anything over a bad relationship.

Up to Chapter XXIV

I like the duality between Elizabeth's character and Charlotte's character in the last two chapters.

Jen wrote: "But like you, Elise, I'd like to think I'd stand up for myself, too. "

Unlike us and Elizabeth, Charlotte leans in the other direction and it's terribly frustrating to see as a reader. I realize not everyone believes in true love and whatnot, but to (view spoiler)[agree to a marriage to someone you hardly know, simply because of the favorable life style they might be able to afford you? (hide spoiler)] I'm sure it happens more than I realize, but I was struck by Charlotte's discussion with Elizabeth (I reacted a bit like her mother and sisters). While I don't necessarily buy into soul mates, a loveless marriage sounds so depressing.

Up to Chapter XXII

Sorry I'm dragging my feet on this so badly. Between the holidays and moving and work I've barely had time to sleep! I did get to read a little last night (finally!)

Lizzy's character is definitely growing on me, especially after everything that just happened with Mr. Collins. I'm glad (view spoiler)[she stood up for herself and said she would not marry him, even though her mother was so hellbent on making the arrangement work. I also really liked how her father couldn't seem to care less and really just wanted them out of his library so he could go back to reading in peace and quiet. A man after my own heart (hide spoiler)]. It's hard to imagine the kind of pressure women faced in those days to marry for reasons other than love. Even still today, in other cultures. I'd like to think I would have had the gumption to stand up for myself as Lizzy did, but I'm not so sure.

Also, Caroline... what a prick!

Up to Chapter XVIII

Sorry I am crawling through this. We are finally closing on our house tomorrow and moving Sunday so between work and packing, I barely have time to sleep! I was hoping that this would be the first book I read in my new home, so now I'll aim for it to be the first book I finish in it =)

Last night this quote really stuck out to me:

"I have no right to give my opinion," said Wickham, "as to his being agreeable or otherwise. I am not qualified to form one. I have known him too long and too well to be a fair judge."

This struck me as kind of ironic. When I want to know someone's true personality, whether it is how they honestly feel about political topics or if they are agreeable to others, the person I want to find out from is someone who does know the person well. Wickham goes on to say that he can't be impartial, but I find that kind of silly; I don't want someone to be impartial, I want to know the truth. Otherwise, it seems silly to ask someone because at that point you would almost know them as well as this other person.

What do y'all think? Either way, I really liked this quote from Wickhma.

Up to Chapter XVI

Sorry my reading is going so slowly; in the middle of buying a house and it's a nightmare!

I am very intrigued by the character of Mr. Wickham and the hidden past between him and Mr. Darcy. So far, the plot has seemed a little slow to me because it primarily focuses on the ploy of marrying off the Bennet daughters, which makes the feminist in me bristle. But I'm loving the snark/wit and and looking forward to seeing if some mystery plays out about Mr. Darcy's past.

Up to Chapter XIII

Drishti wrote: "Up to chapter 12

Everytime I read this book, I'm reminded how much I dislike Caroline Bingley."

She definitely has not made a good first impression on me, nor has her sister. I haven't really connected with any of the female characters yet (of course it is still early), but I am starting to like Elizabeth.


It seems crazy that a short ride on a horse in the rain could have such an impact! I definitely take for granted my immune system and our advances in technology (like water resistant clothes, warmer layers, etc, as well as covered transportation). It's hard to even imagine something like what happened to Jane happening these days.

Up to Chapter X

I've been listening to Nick Offerman's Gumption audiobook, and one of the things he says in it is that he misses how in the "olden days" they use to use "Oh!" as proclamations, and it is something I have started doing lately because I love it. I've noticed so far in P&P that Austen's characters use "Oh!" every once in a while, so it tickles me every single time.

Up to Chapter VI

Is it weird that so far, I completely relate to Mr. Bennet? I would much rather be at home, lost in a book than at a party. I'm not one for gossiping, so I actually laughed aloud when Mrs. Bennet starts to tell him the entire story of who Mr. Bingley danced with (it reminds me to listening to drawn out stories that certain family members of mine tell).

I also kind of relate to Mr. Darcy. I would hate a bunch of strangers coming up to me at a party and begging me to dance with them all night, especially ones I had not even talked to yet! I'm sure his pride has a little bit to do with it, but I don't think he's as bad as everyone is making him out to be. He's probably just introverted and anti social, like myself.

I am glad I did not have to grow up in this time period, when women were basically just there to make babies and entertain. I would not have fared well at all lol.

Jen wrote: "My favorite is probably the snarky humor that infuses her works. I loved the snarkiness in P&P."

I'm literally only the first chapter in, and I can already see that in Mr. Bennet.

I swear I started this book once before but didn't get very far. Glad I'm trying while I'm a little older. I think I'll be able to appreciate it much more now than I would have previously anyway. Also, am currently listening to Mindy Kaling's new audiobook and she was saying how she suedo modeled the main characters for The Mindy Project from P&P, so that just got me amped up for this buddy read =)

About Ezra: (view spoiler)[I did notice that AIDAN's "personality" seemed a bit bipolar. A lot of times, it was like 'Am I alive?' 'Do I feel?' as if it is self aware and capable of human feelings. And then, as you point out,he simply flat out tells Kady that Ezra is dead, as if he doesn't understand the emotion behind such a declaration. That threw me off (hide spoiler)].

Something you find strange: (view spoiler)[I think it makes sense once we've read the ending, and we realize that Kady put it together. She has information that only she would have access to, as Ezra's mom points out. And that could explain why she doesn't really have much in the way of activity on Ezra's side, because perhaps that information would have been a lot harder to come by. But still, she is supposedly this ultra insanely talented hacker, so you're right that it seems a bit unbalanced. (hide spoiler)]

Underlying theme: (view spoiler)[I agree, and I think Kady's willingness to sacrifice herself for the well being of the non infected she is able to evacuate off the ship is the only time I ever connected with her character and ever really liked her. AIDAN's isn't nearly as interesting to me, since it is a machine and I'm still not buying that whole self awareness deal, but it makes sense from its aspect as everything it is doing is allegedly for self preservation (hide spoiler)]

Hadn't thought that about air vents, but that's a good point! I do like (view spoiler)[that it didn't really seem to help them at all, and that it actually kind of backfired on them when they were in there and the infected got to them and they were basically pinned down in the tight confines. Whoops! (hide spoiler)]

Yeah, I am glad that I will be well past this lifetime by the time even just our own sun burns out and Earth is destroyed hahaha.

I wasn't surprised to find out that (view spoiler)[Kady was the Illuminae. It also helps explain the tone of the very first page, though I still find it a little annoying. It makes sense though, since she is not at all fond of Ezra's mom, and she's still a teenager, so probably not too worried about professionalism (hide spoiler)].

I did not expect (view spoiler)[Director Frobisher to be Ezra's mom. It makes sense, since the whole reason they broke up was because Ezra was keeping his mom a secret, but I didn't really put much thought into Frobisher at all (hide spoiler)]

Though I did enjoy the tail part of this novel a lot more, since we really ramped down on the romance and amped up on the action and suspense, I still don't think I'm interested in continuing this series, as I have the haunting suspicion that the thing I had the most issues with in this novel - the poor formatting/punctuation in the IMs, the blacked out excessive cussing, and the adults and formal reports that feel like they are written by annoying teenagers - are pretty much integral to the style of the novels in this series. Still, I will say this is definitely a unique novel, and the premise felt really promising even if I think it failed to deliver overall.

Finished (I binged the rest on our road trip for Thanksgiving) Happy Thanksgiving!


Yeah, that didn't make much sense to me either. I don't know if it was just for suspense/shock and awe, or if the authors tried to explain it and I just glazed over (I think later on it's touched on, but I still didn't like the explanation).

The Terminator movies aren't that great (I didn't like the new one at all). Too many paradoxes when dealing with the time travel fundamental to the plot IMO.

So I made notes on my phone while in the car, so I'm going to split them out by progress to minimize spoilers:

First of all, Ezra. (view spoiler)[I did not see that coming at all, but once I got over the shock it didn't really surprise me. In fact, it is kind of brilliant for the AI to do. To pry on the human emotions of the people it is trying to manipulate for its own purpose. (hide spoiler)]


Page 486

I would not want to be one of the people still alive at this point in the journey. (view spoiler)[I think I would rather do what James did I think. That has always been my stance if the zombie apocalypse happens (hide spoiler)]


Page 496

My crazy analytical brain started noticing the difference between the remaining on the ship and the percentage infected and I noticed the numbers don't seem the most logical. Assuming that pretty much everyone left on the ship is infected (view spoiler)[(based on the fact that 800 people evacuated when Kady got the escape pods off, and only a little over 1000 uninfected where left to begin with), I would say at most less than 300 people remained on the ship that weren't infected. Over 400 people have died since the exodus of the ship, and I would assume that most of the noninfected were either killed attempting to get off the ship or were attacked by the infected. (hide spoiler)] It would seem to me that as more people die, the percentage remaining on the ship that aren't infected would start to increase, because (view spoiler)[Kady is not infected. As more and more others die, her percentage as part of the whole remaining on the ship would become higher and higher (hide spoiler)]. I did notice that the authors seemed to take this into account a bit, as the percentage does start to go up, but in a very insubstantial amount it looked like. I realize this is probably nick picking, but that seemed to be a little off.


Page 518

I like again how they built any image of the "character" in just the name of the character.


Page 563

I can't imagine surviving all that (view spoiler)[just to be doused in radiation. I doubted her suit would be able to handle that amount of radiation. I thought perhaps the ship's hull might have shielding built into the ship (like water shields or something) to protect them from the natural radiation in space, but I wasn't surprised to find out that she got radiation poisoning. Personally, I would have rather died in the battle or before the Phobos infected got to me instead of dying from the terrible symptoms of radiation. (hide spoiler)]


Page 574

"Energy never stops, remember. It just changes form." It's been written in much more eloquent terms and more scientific forms before, but I love the sentiment behind it. This is one of my favorite fundamentals of physics.


Page 589

Whattttt???? (view spoiler)[Considering I never connected with these characters, I have to admit that I'm not too pleased about this happy ending. If Ezra is actually still alive, I like that it's at least vague/left up to the reader his fate (is she telling the truth or lying for her own benefit to get what she wants?) It kind of reminds me of the ending of Inception (which was brilliant) (hide spoiler)].


Page 595

Well, the (view spoiler)[ambiguity is ruined. Bah. I realize they are going to try to make a series out of this, but I would have liked it if they both had just died, and Kady had sent the files right before she went. Does that make me a bad person? A happy ending just seems so unrealistic for this story. And since the whole romance angle in this story just kind of sputtered along, I felt like the ending would have worked so much better and have a more visceral reaction from readers if they had both perished in the whole ordeal (hide spoiler)]. I don't know. What do you think?

Up to page 405

Just have to say that the "photo" on this page is pretty cool. On one hand, I'd almost rather not know what the characters look like, since I never seen to visualize what they look like correctly. But this is really cool.

Yeah, I must have been tired when I read/wrote that. I've actually heard part of that poem before/knew it was about Lincoln thanks to an episode of Full House (where Uncle Jesse had to learn it for his GED class). But I never would have interpreted it to mean the same thing. I like to write poetry because of its inherit ambiguity. You can write something that has a particular meaning to you, and 10 other people can read it and all draw different meanings from it. I think it's kind of eloquent. But I never liked studying it in school, and having people try to tell me what it means.

In all honesty, I completely skipped over the heart page O=)

I doubt Harry Potter while survive the eons; and Hunger Games and Twilight will definitely fade out as well. I have a feeling that most series won't stand the test of time, but there might be a few stand alone novels from this generation that might make it. I agree that there won't be many from this generation that are remembered. Probably Hawking, Sagan, and maybe Neil deGrase Tyson and whoever makes the next big discovery in multi-verses/string theory/etc.

It's kind of hard to imagine if any TV shows and movies will make it 500 years from now. After all, that technology (unlike the written word) has not even been along nearly that long yet. Perhaps a few of the earlier works when the technology was first development, and maybe one or two from when the big technology leaps were made (like the original Star Wars, and maybe Avatar - but probably not that one).

I like Byron's quote. It definitely applies to his character. In a way, it is kind of the inner logic behind AIDAN too, no? Ironically, of course, since (view spoiler)[AIDAN is basically the tyranny suppressing and killing them all (hide spoiler)]. Which I think goes to your point that it can be twisted to excuse actions just as bad. (view spoiler)[That's exactly what AIDAN is doing and using as his excuses (hide spoiler)]. I think the progress in our own, highly developed society would still be much quicker if we didn't just sit idly by and let injustices continue. On one hand, I'm a bit of a believer on "live and let live", but it kind of has the same duality that you mention with the quote above. You can live and let live, but at the same time, if you see an injustice being done, you shouldn't just sweep it under the rug because it doesn't affect you.

Hope that all makes sense. Only running on a few hours of sleep today lol.

The AIDAN inner core files are still irking me a bit, but the plot is still keeping a high pace of action, even if the (view spoiler)[romance is continuing on steadily as well (hide spoiler)]. Side note, I'm watching the latest Terminator movie right now (would not recommend lol), and it seems fitting since the whole plot behind the series is the evil Skynet becoming self aware and trying to kill off people.

Up to Page 353

Oh my dang, what just happened! So messed up. Not all that surprised that Syra did it, but shocking nonetheless. Even though I could kind of see it coming the page before, it still left me speechless!

With reference to the poem by Walt Whitman (who was a Terran president?) and considering that this book takes place over 500 years in the future, do you think any classics we like today would survive that far into the future? Do you think anyone/anything in today's era would be considered classical 500 years down the road?

Up to pg 309

Work isn't too bad (especially since it pays for my ridiculous Black Friday addiction hahaha) =)

I'm finding it harder and harder to get through this book. Kind of like what we were talking about before, where the authors' put a little more detail/imagery into the emails/IMs/reports/briefs than you would expect to find in order to paint the scene, I really just saw this with (view spoiler)[AIDAN's internal thoughts when they bring him back online to fight off the upcoming ship and throw the confusion bomb at their drives. I almost laughed aloud at some of the stuff included as it just seems absurd that a computer - AI or not - would even come close to "thinking" about it. Stuff like "Eyes bright. Fingers curled." Why would an AI system feel the need to describe that?

The other thing that got me is that it feels like a complete rip off of 2001 Space Odessey, even down to the AI (AIDAN versus Hal) talking to the person named David/Dave. (hide spoiler)] I've found a lot of pop culture references/borrowed ideas it feels like, which is starting to take away from the originality of the story in my eyes.

I thought I was going to like this section better because they are pretty much going into battle, (view spoiler)[but even the AI computers seem obsessed with Ezra's and Kady's romance, and that really irked me (hide spoiler)]. I liked the page where the text was laid out for the radio chatter for each Cyclone pilot in the shape of a ship in what looked like where they would be positioned when they got sent out. That was really cool! I wasn't as fond though when they carried it on into more random seeming configurations, though (the sun rays one was particularly hard to read).

I still really like the premise behind this story and I have to give the authors mad props for such an unique style to it, but I'm still finding a lot of faults in the execution =(

It does seem like the plot is going to get action up for the time being though, so I have my fingers crossed for that! And I am just thankful I will never wind up in this kind of situation in my lifetime!

Emily wrote: "Awesome, Drishti! It's my favorite classic for sure :) We'll have at least one first time Austen reader doing it with us, which should be fun."

You guys will have to take it easy on me since it's my first foray! =)

Up to page 263 (I really wanted to binge this week, but I'm stuck working until Thanksgiving, booooooo lol)

I agree that the authors are writing to write some personality into the characters/novel through "inorganic" means by adding stuff to the Illuminae files that people probably wouldn't have said/written otherwise. As a super science nerd, and in this particular case where I don't really connect with the characters - and where the two main characters kindda annoy me - I think I would actually prefer to have just the information/sci-fi part of the story instead of the love entanglement between the main two characters and the hints of romance between the side characters.

I think the only relationship I was actually interested in exploring was the interactions between Kady and her mom, and well... that was a let down lol.

I didn't notice Laini Taylor! That's cool =) I've found myself skimming a bit over parts that don't seem to contribute much to the plot, and I skipped all the pages of the list of names to be honest (whoops!)

You are probably spot on about the subject matter James and Ezra discuss, but I also completely agree that I don't feel the need for it here. I don't hang out with teenage boys, so I don't know what they talk about to fill the time, but I'm sure I also don't want to lol. I've worked with enough mechanics to know a lot of that stuff could be better off left unsaid IMHO.

I haven't been drawn in by the AI element of the plot, but I'm definitely interested to see how (view spoiler)[Kady's and Zhang's plan to basically overload the drive on the intercepting ship is going to go (hide spoiler)]. I wish the story would focus more on than that Kady and Ezra, because I agree that everything between them has been completely lackluster and unconvincing.

What would you have done if you had been in the Hypatia's situation? The letter from the command to the crew and civilians on the ship regarding their situation/decision was one of the only pieces of this novel that I thought was really well done. And it is such a great question on morality, but I think they made the right decision.

Brianna wrote: "I just finished reading Mason's account of the Copernicus incident and then the Populace Information Release Hypatia.

How did this make all of you feel? I couldn't believe it. I mean I know this is a fictional story, but man it makes you kind of rethink things you've been told in the news in reality. "

Perhaps I am a bit jaded/pessimistic, but I can almost totally believe something like that could happen. It's a different kind of scenario, but look at the whole thing with Area 51. The government almost loves for people to claim they saw UFOs, because they want to keep secret the type of technology and weapons they are developing out there. There are so many levels of secretary in this country that I wouldn't be surprised if something like this cover up happened here eventually/has already happened.

Have you seen Battlestar Galactica (the revamp)? This book reminds me of it a LOT, even down to some of the terminology (most notably, the stems the pilots take - that is a plot point taken directly from a few BSG episodes). There is a whole conspiracy in that show over a government election on board that is covered up and kept hushed hushed, which reminds me of this situation with the AI.


Emily wrote: "I'm up to page 100 now, and the IMs between Ezra and his friend James are absolutely driving me nuts. I also try to have proper grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc. no matter what I'm typing, so it's very annoying. I can get over punctuation and capitalization in IMs, but it would be really nice if the characters at least used proper grammar and didn't leave out words."

Yeah, these IMs, plus the ones between Kady and Ezra and Kady and the other hacker are the hardest parts for me to stomach. For one, all the blacked out cursing is kind of annoying. I would like to think that in 560 years, profanities will have evolved some, just as they have in the past 560 years. Reading the blacked out bits, 95% of the time my mind can automatically fill in the blanks with words we use everything. Of course, this might just be the writers trying to make the language easier on the readers. After all, if "geeball" is any sign, it would be even harder to read if they tried to take into account the development of a language over the centuries. As for the James/Jimmy and Ezra IMs, if I have to hear one more stupid quip about Ezra doing James's sister or James's jerking off to Kady's photo... argh. It adds absolutely nothing to the plot and is just massively annoying now coupled with the terrible grammar.

I'm up to page 156 now (part of the Phobos reports) and while some of the reports between the ships' commanders and medical teams/etc. have gotten a little better in terms of matching the level of writing to the age group and professions being represented, there still seems to be one or two lines in each one that kind of ruins the whole passage for me. For example, on the Copernicus report I am reading now, the doctor, in an official medical report, writes "however, one of the assistants (Jane, lovely girl) dropped an entire batch of...". And I realize that it's probably the authors' attempt at adding a little humor to the writing, but it just screams unprofessionalism to me and shatters the illusion that these could be real.


Emily wrote: "However, (view spoiler) What would you guys do? "

I would tell anyone with an ounce of technological background, as they clearly (view spoiler)[need to find a way to limit the capacities built into the AI's programming. Although, to be honest, I'm not sure I'm one to believe the AI's will ever become "self-aware" and start to be able to override their programming and take over ships and orders, etc. But it could be possible, the way technology advances these days. I certainly wouldn't have killed the pilots that saved the survivors, just to cover my skin. That was messed up. (hide spoiler)]


Oh, and have you guys seen The Wire? James/Jimmy McNulty seems to have almost the exact same characteristics as his namesake in the show.

Up to Page 89

I am actually really digging the formatting of the novel so far. It feels like a bit of a puzzle, since you are putting together the information given and having to fill in the blanks in the story. It reminds me quite a bit of World War Z, which I throughly enjoyed (have you read it? It's zombies, but I don't remember it being too graphic as it is told through interviews and information collected after the fact of the events that happened).

The issue I have so far is with the writing itself encased in the formatting. I realize it is a young adult novel, but the bone I picked with the cover letter to start with hasn't gotten much better. Even classified letters from military people are written like a teenager talking, and it's been bugging me the whole time. I think the young adult level needs to be limited to the interactions between the young adults, and that Kaufman and Kristoff could have stepped up the quality of the writing quite a bit for all the government and inter-ship inclusions.

I do agree that the formatting leads it to be less engaging with the characters, but that honestly hasn't bothered me so far (I'm more interested in the sci-fi than the romance between Kady and Ezra). In fact, the romance between them seems kind of silly, especially early on (maybe it will grow on me as we get further into the story). If the world were literally ending around me, I think the last thing I would be focusing on would be bickering with my ex-boyfriend (who I only dated for a year). The whole first part with them fighting and whatnot as the planet is bombed to death really bugged me. I am definitely digging the plot so far though, and am (view spoiler)[quite terrified that the AI system went all HAL and blew up their own ship (hide spoiler)].

I think it would make sense that once we had the technology to make wormholes and travel through space, we would seek out planets similar to Earth (although why they were on an icy, frozen planet is a little weird. There are millions of planets out there, so it seems like they might pick one a little less frozen for mining, unless it was its location in conjunction with the megacorp's other mining locations).

A lot of the dialogue/dialect in this futuristic world is a little annoying; geeball is a great example. As someone who always makes sure I have proper grammar and punctuation when I send emails and texts, the comm dialogues and emails are super annoying to me (that might just be my grouchiness towards the way teenagers are these days though lol)

Right off the bat (I'm just on the first page), the tone of this book feels off. This is a 600 page report to the Executive Director of what I assume is one of the megacorporations. And the author of this email/cover letter acts like he/she is just making snarky comments to a friend. That strikes me as very odd and extremely unprofessional. But perhaps everyone is that informal eons into the future.

Anyway, off to continue! =)

Mrs. Joyner! Yes! That was the same reaction I had. Out of all the characters, she's the only one I really see growth in and my Lord, did she come a long way. (view spoiler)[When Lee and Jeff decide to scavenge the table and tablecloth for her, I found that moment so inspiring. Because Mrs. Joyner really didn't even care anymore, but they wanted to bring her that one small comfort and reminder of the past (hide spoiler)]. I actually ended up liking her in the end. I think she will do well out in Cali.

Yeah, the ending with the (view spoiler)["final showdown" with the uncle (hide spoiler)] felt so staged and corny. I understand the message behind it, but it just felt so fake to me that I couldn't really enjoy it. If it is a light month of new releases when the next one comes out, I might give the trilogy one more shot. But I just wasted a week on Rose Society after a lackluster start to Young Elites, so maybe I will have learned my lesson by then =)