MeerderWörter’s Comments (group member since Jan 08, 2016)

MeerderWörter’s comments from the Our Shared Shelf group.

Damn the choppy internet... well, now I have to reply to two instead of one;)

So, let me see:

Tamar, Robert has said a lot about "other" already, and while I agree with you that intersex is not male or female, it still hurts to "other" someone simply because they are "other". That is actually pretty sexist in m opinion. Or would you say that women deserve to be treated less because they usually have other sexual characteristics compared to men?
Also, I think it is very odd to speak of a "norm" when we speak about this kind of issue. Everyone's genitals are different - some just resemble more what we are taught in school (or not taught in school for that matter) than others.
"All humans are born with a sex - their own" "And they are born with the same rights" ~Lucie Veith

Intersex refers to one's chromosomal make-up, hormones, genitals and secondary sex characteristics like body hair and breast development.
It is important to recognize that we have vital needs, and that these needs need to be addressed. Our rights are human rights, even if they are trampled under the feet. My chromosome pattern or hormone levels don't make me "other", it is somebody else's decision that makes me "other".

I am sick of this "other" - cutting off clitorises because they are too large, and castrating people when they are only infants - why would anyone do that if they don't see us as anything but "other"?
Imagine you would have to know which terms to use to search the internet if the only thing you want to do is watch a movie or a series with a character in it that is like you. When you know all of them because there are - 5? Same with books? And when in half of these stories there is something odd, because they messed up a varation instead of properly researching it? Or use it only for a factor of shock, or disgust, or "alien"-feeling? Imagine what that would do to you - because that is what it is like to live an intersex life, and that is if you are that lucky and there even is a story about you out there.
Can you see now why I am done with "other"?



Now to you, Robert:
Yes, to be willing to be educated is not easily found, especially with intersex. I am glad you are one of them who are willing to learn.

The Nazis did horrible stuff to intersex people, and (alarm), would be very pleased now with what is today being done to intersex people. Again, they would be pleased would they know what intersex people have to endure since the 60s. How is that in any way okay, when we do something to humans today that would make THE NAZIS very HAPPY?!

There are over 30 variations in sex development, and not all of them show at birth... some do when puberty doesn't go the way it is expected, or later in life when you have problems conceiving for example. Not all of them have to do with sex chromosomes, hyperandrogenism for example has various reasons. In Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, or with an older name testicular feminization, which is now seen as offensive, the cells of the body are either fully or partially, well, the name says it, insensitive to male hormones. Which leads to all kinds of cool developments, depending on whether you have complete or partial AIS.

Robert, there actually are people with just one X chromosome, and they are considered to be intersex by most in the intersex community. I have no idea how common that is, as I suspect it is a bit difficult to find that out, I mean, an ultrasound wouldn't show anything that wouldn't be the way we expect it. I assume tho that
it is traceable via recessive hereditary diseases, as they are bound to show in monosomones, aren't they?

For anyone, if you say that 1,7% is too high a number, then take this one: 1 in 2000 new-borns cannot be assigned a sex because their genitals vary too much from what we as a society perceive as either male or female (hm yeah, who says what is "too large" for a phallus now exactly so that it is classified a clitoromegaly, and who says what is "too small" for a phallus so that it is classified a "micropenis"? hm???) So, if you take only the smaller number, the "hard-fact" number, that still makes 103 members... which is a huge number if you think about it, group them all together in a room... you'll have to find a room big enough for that group of people.

And None of the Above is a perfect book about someone with AIS, you'll learn an awful lot about the struggles of intersex people if you read that one. And if you're even braver, then try Golden Boy by Abigail Tartellin.

Well, since it impacts so many women I think it is definitely a good thing to raise awareness about it.
Maybe it'll also help women who menstruate to be more open about it, and not feel ashamed because of them. Because nobody should feel ashamed because of a natural function of their body!
Getting one's period is such a huge milestone in your journey from girl to womanhood, and yet it is a taboo, and nobody talks about it.
In my opinion, we need to be careful, because talking about periods is not easy - especially for those who by society are expected to have them, but don't, for various reasons. It's like a smack in your face when you don't get periods and still have to come to terms with it and don't expect the topic coming up in a conversation and then - whack.


Maybe one day we'll be so far and can talk about menstruating men too. But when I look at the current state of affairs, I am not too hopeful we will get there any time soon.

When I look at the bar and their goal - I don't want to spit it in the soup, but isn't it rather easy to say you have them when you don't? I see the goal they have, and I think it is good they do something about it, but I also see the issues that rise from such a measure. I am not all negative about it, but I am also not all positive about it.


No body is shameful!

Phoebe wrote: "So my form tutor was speaking to me about what teachers have to wear in the summer. The women where in dresses and skirts however men still had to wear shirt and trousers (like said ^^^). So the ne..."

^^Crazy!!!

Gracie-Lou wrote: "To put another spin on things..... my partner works in an office, in the summer women come in wearing dresses and sandals that sort of thing to keep themselves cool. It is still smart enough but th..."

I definitely agree with this - clothing is a 2 way street.

I will also never understand the issue of school uniforms - maybe because I never had one. Speaking of it in a more general sense - how come women are allowed to wear trousers in the Western world but if men wear skirts and dresses, it is seen as odd?
I would be very interested in your thoughts on that one.

The whole idea of dress codes is rather odd if you ask me.

Tamar wrote: "MeerderWörter wrote: "Tamar wrote: "The easiest way to establish the difference is by acknowledging that sex and gender have different meanings.
Sex: male/female based off of what your genitals are..."

This may sound like nit-picking, but whe you say female/male and intersex, then this sounds as if it's othered. And that hurts a lot of intersex people.

Also, intersex does not refer to genitals alone...

Alyson wrote: "I think we are doing a good job, a lot better than most groups."

Doesn't mean we can't strive for the even better. We should always aim for the higher road.

Emma wrote: "I've seen a lot about this convention on social media. It looks like a fantastic convention. Is this our time's Seneca Falls Women's Convention?"

Now, I haven't heard much about the Seneca Falls Women's Convention yet, but listening to this right now:
https://www.facebook.com/womensmarcho...

definitely gives me the impression that change is on its way. Such an intersectional panel, gives me hope, and especially how they speak gives me hope, that change is on its way. In the US and around the world.

Ross wrote: "Ana interesting articles. Conversely I wonder if some cultural appropriation is a good thing allowing for development. The Orient has some of the richest and extraordinary civilization the world ha..."

Appropriation is not appreciation.

A talk that helped me realize what cultural appropriation is, is this one:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/nativetr...
Appropriation, in a nutshell, is when you misuse someone else's culture for your own art for example. When you misrespect another culture, as in wearing headdresses.

Ana wrote: "Robert wrote: "Lynn wrote: "Do we have any psychologists in the group who could comment on this?"

I am a psychologist who practices in the US and am happy to comment on the sex/gender distinction...."

I still believe in the: you are not the expert unless you have experienced it. There is always a difference between reading about something, and then experiencing it.

Thanks again Robert for your lengthy post, sometimes an expert is really needed in discussions. It really is important for ourselves to keep us in check and see who we give power over ourselves - whether that is in reading a book about a certain topic and giving the author power over us as in that we likely follow their suggestions in the case it is a self-help book. Or in a much greater sense, when we turn to a doctor for help.

Sense8 is back on Netflix. I watch it right now and love it.

Robert wrote: "Lynn wrote: "Do we have any psychologists in the group who could comment on this?"

I am a psychologist who practices in the US and am happy to comment on the sex/gender distinction. However, I als..."

Thank you Robert for that lengthy post.
Hm, sounds like there needs to be a change in what doctors need to learn... but then, not just doctors but everyone.

I wish to be entered as well. Thanks!

Keith wrote: "I have the privilege and honour to be able to call someone who identifies as a member of the intersex community, a friend and I suggested to her what my best way would be of supporting Intersex Awa..."

Your friend is very lucky to have met you.

Ross wrote: "this event needs higher profile coverage by national press"

Believe me, I will spread it all over Twitter today:)

NIX wrote: "Yeah I was really kind of shocked when he said that. I just stared at him for a few seconds and thought "but- but I'm not??????"

And then I just became really confused because I was like "do I tr..."

Dear NIX!
I am very sorry to hear about all the issues that you face.
Now, I know it really isn't on anyone's wish-list to confront their doctor with something like that, basically telling them they are wrong. But the good thing is, you don't have to. You can reach out to OII Australia and I am sure they can help you further, their website might give you enough details already:
https://oii.org.au/information/contact/

While intersex people and non-binary people have common ground, intersex and non-binary is not the same. Thank you for not appropriating the term "intersex", and you know, it is hard, but hang in there, you can always drop me a PM.

I hope it's getting better for you,
Meerder

My dear OurSharedShelf family!

Tomorrow is a very special day - it is Intersex Awareness Day.
Now, you might wonder how this day came to be and what it is about.

Tomorrow is the 21st anniversary of the first protest against how the medical community has treated intersex people.
On October 26, 1996, Hermaphrodites with Attitude took to the streets and for the first time ever demanded an end to medically unnecessary, cosmetic genital surgery on intersex infants and youth. Both Max Beck and Morgan Holmes prepared a speech, but they didn't get the chance to speak in front of the annual convention of American Academy of Pediatrics in Boston. And that is when they decided to take to the streets in front of the building and protest, with leaflets and banners and everything.

As Morgan Holmes writes:
"But that event, that week-end in Boston, however imperfect started something much more public than ISNA had been able to accomplish in its founding years. Organizations like Bodies Like Ours and OII developed to fill in the gaps and to clear new spaces that ISNA was not. The work in Europe and Australia, along with the support of ILGA, has impressed me most of all."

Yes, many issues have been tackled since, but there is still a long way to go.

Intersex Awareness Day was founded by Betsy Driver in 2004, and what she wrote in 2015 is so true:
Next year in 2016, it will be 20 years since those brave souls, including Morgan Holmes and the late Max Beck, stood in the chilly October air in Boston putting doctors on notice that intersex people were finally coming out, that we knew what they had done and what they were continuing to do.

It was because of a few of us who said they had enough, that so much changed.

I will never forget those who have decided to take a stand for the first time, never!

And if you don't know what I'm talking about, this is Betsy and Claudia talking about their experiences:
https://www.interfaceproject.org/stor...
And this is Claudia:
https://www.interfaceproject.org/stor...


http://intersexday.org/en/origin-inte...
http://intersexday.org/en/max-beck-mo...

Aaron wrote: "But are they Free?"

Aaron, you still have to buy every book. Goodreads enables you to keep track of when you read the books and you can shelf them. Join groups like this one to discuss books and find others who have the same taste in literature like you.

Welcome on OurSharedShelf!

And about Wounded Knee, which to this day is being sung about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqxMs...

So, finally, I have time to reply here.

I don't know if it is feminist, but I plan on reading the following ones:
Indigenous Writes: A Guide to First Nations, Métis, and Inuit Issues in Canada by Chelsea Vowel, you can find her on Twitter here: @apihtawikosisan (but beware, she doesn't hold back).

Then I plan to read Lakota Woman by Mary Crow Dog. She sadly has passed away already, but I am sure she will always be remembered by her People. She was a member of the American Indian Movement, and she was involved in the siege at Wounded Knee, South Dakota in 1973. It is there that she got a new name - Brave Woman.

Then I also plan to read a book by Russel Means, who sadly also has passed away already. Where White Men Fear to Tread: The Autobiography of Russell Means is a book I look really forward to reading. This man has character, watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVANR...

And one final one that I want to read:
Prison Writings: My Life Is My Sun Dance by Leonard Peltier.

It is important to walk through life with an open mind and to listen. To listen is more important than to speak when you have to learn. And we have to learn an awful lot.

Ragini wrote: "Hello? I wanted to ask how am I supposed to start a thread in this shelf. if anyone could help me?"

You go to the folder in which you want to have it, and then in the upper right corner above the threads you see "Create a topic".