Daisy’s Comments (group member since Jan 12, 2014)

Daisy’s comments from the My Sibling The Mythical Being! group.

Hmm, reading through the old comments on this discussion, I'm struck by our mentions of meditation. I don't remember it explicitly being said in the series that Mr Abbott meditates, and I'm wondering if that's just a generalisation we made from his tai-chi and philosophical quotes. I'm really into mindfulness and meditate pretty regularly, and I love it. It would be really cool if Mr Abbott did meditate. I'm going to look out for mentions of it as I re-read the books.

Anyway, the original reason I came onto this thread was because having just re-read Star Style (MSTV#8) I was disappointed by how little these guys were present in that book. Even though the book revolved mainly around Olivia, their only brief appearance was at the movie premiere after-party. Why weren't they at the family gathering at Aunt Rebecca's house? Why couldn't they come to the award show at the end to support Olivia? I missed them in this book!

This has got me thinking about ways we can see more of Olivia's parents in the series. Sienna Mercer has proved they can be more than just comic relief through touching moments such as when Ivy went shopping with Audrey and wished she was her mum (in Revamped {MSTV#3} I think?), and when Audrey gave Olivia a new phone and told her that her and Steve supported Olivia finding her biological family (in Love Bites {MSTV#6}). Though actually now I think of it all the other examples of this that come to mind involve Audrey. Perhaps we need to see a different side of Steve?

I'm not saying I want Sienna Mercer to stop making Mr and Mrs Abbott funny, but I'd love to see more of them as rounded people. There's a lot we don't know about them. Why did they adopt Olivia? Was it because they couldn't have kids of their own, or thought adoption was a good thing to do, or another reason? What was the experience like for them? I think this would be a particularly apt thing to explore, because it recalls the past, explores Ivy and Olivia's origins and focuses on family - in the spirit of old-school Sister the Vamp.

Along with this theme it would be awesome to see some of their extended family - they must have some, right? It was fascinating hearing about Audrey's Great Aunt Edna in Fangtastic (MSTV#2). I'd also like to know more about what their lives were like before Olivia in general - how did they meet, where did they live, what were their jobs?

What do you guys think of these ideas? Any you'd particularly like to see in future MSTV books? Do you have any ideas for Olivia's parents of your own?

You guys, your comments rock! I had a lot on thoughts on this book myself while re-reading it so I think we have a lot to discuss!

Firstly, I actually think I disagree with what you said, S!X, about Olivia not being reliant on Jackson - at least to a certain extent. I kind of felt like Olivia was following Jackson's lead throughout most of the book. He was the one pushing for them to go public and making the effort for them to spend time together. However, I think this had a purpose, because at the end when Olivia was accepting her award and explaining about her and Jackson, it felt like she had finally taken control of the situation and was leading the way for sure. That was an even more satisfying moment for me, having felt like she lacked a bit of agency through the rest of the book. I can accept now that she was thrown into the unfamiliar and overwhelming world of Hollywood, and couldn't really be expected to navigate her way through it all like Jackson can, who's been immersed in it for years. Sienna Mercer had it all worked out.

One thing I loved about Olivia's journey in this book was the shark-bite skirt. That was such an original idea for a storyline and it was fun to see it keep coming back throughout the book.

I love what you said about Ivy being witty and edgy, S!X. At the premiere afterparty, when Harker was introducing her to his colleagues and they were openly critiquing her, it was so cool how she kept shooting comebacks at them. "The fashion is current," commented another, like Ivy was a store mannequin. "You know it," Ivy retorted. :D Also this bit is like my favourite of the whole book, when Olivia, Ivy and Brendan are discussing Charles fancying Lillian:

Brendan chuckled. "Mr Vega needs to work on his game." He pretended he was boxing, bouncing and throwing imaginary punches.
"I suppose you're the world champion, lady killer?" Ivy asked.
"There's only one lady for me," Brendan called after her. "And I've got her, haven't I?"

I also noticed Charles blushing. I like to assume that they blush when they're embarrassed AND when they're about to faint?? I remember Olivia having blue eyes as well - I agree I think it's an error. As for Ivy not hearing Jessica, it's a possibility that the auditorium/studio/wherever it was had so many other sounds that Ivy couldn't make out Jessica's voice. But I think I agree with you, with vamp hearing that shouldn't really be an issue. I've never thought about that moment before - nice find!

I'm with you on the kiss thing, Sophie, I think the "scooping up" is the hug and they kissed afterwards. I feel you on the obsessing over small details though, S!X - I dedicate an embarrassingly large amount of my time to pondering insignificant stuff in MSTV!

Sophie wrote: "I noticed again how this book weaves studying and their school work into the story. Like when Olivia, Brendan and Sophia are at Ivy's house having dinner and Mr Vega mentions they have homework to catch up on. It's awesome that that fits into this story focusing on crazy fame and acting stuff, and there's also the Chillian story line. So good!"

^I love this! It's one of my pet peeves in Middle Grade books where they just ignore the fact that the characters are in school. Either include it or made them home-educated or something!! Sienna Mercer, however, exercises the school setting to her advantage really well, for instance with the media studies project in Fangtastic (MSTV#2), science hall bathroom in Switched (MSTV#1) and the Homecoming storyline in Puppy Love (MBTW#2). Oh, and I loved the Chillian storyline, too. Clever how SM brought back a familiar character and cast her in a new light, instead of introducing someone new and us only ever seeing her with Charles. I think this book could have easily become all about Olivia, but this storyline, and Sophia's new job, helped widen the focus to all the gang.

The development of Amy was really well done in this book, I feel. She's always been quite (humorously) over the top in her stress, and I like how SM, when bringing her character more into the spotlight, didn't play this down to make her more realistic, but instead played up her enthusiasm and praise to balance it out. She's a bit of a handful no matter what mood she's in, which is why she's made such headway in Hollywood, in my opinion.

One of the funniest parts of this book for me has gotta be where Ivy stands up in cafeteria yelling "STOP!" to prevent Olivia sitting with them. Then to cover it up she shouts at Brendan to stop stealing her ketchup: '"You know how much it means to me!" Sophia sniggered and Brendan dropped the three fries that were halfway to his mouth.' So funny!

And finally, I had this random thought... When Jessica goes to the Bloodmart to get a snack before the premiere, it says 'Jessica's entourage had followed her downstairs so there was a little breathing room.' Isn't it kind of risking the Blood Secret for loads of paparazzi to go rushing into the basement of the FoodMart?

Aw, thanks. Glad you enjoy reading them as much as I enjoy writing them!

Hmm, that's a good question about Camilla's adaptation. It's hard to judge because we only got the smallest glimpse of her version of the play. I feel like I don't really mind if Romeo and Juliet live as long as the message of their families being united stays. I'm not sure where that stands with Romeo turning out to be a jerk in this version though. Obviously you can't really do the story of the Montagues and Capulets learning to love eachother through the love of their kids if it's actually Juliet and a kinsman of the Prince that fall in love. And apart from the inconsistencies it creates for the story, personally I don't think Juliet and Mercutio would be together in a million years. Their personalities and tastes just don't mesh at all for me.

At the end of the day my stance is that any adaptation can work if it's done well. And I'm sure Camilla and the cast would've done it brilliantly. I can definitely get behind Juliet and Mercutio of it's Olivia and Jackson.

I actually stumbled across this on the Olivia Abbott Wiki which might explain the hair thing: "Olivia and Ivy both have long dark brown hair however Olivia's tends to have some brighter highlights while Ivy's tends to have darker highlights."

Oh my gosh I love that last quote you posted too. THIS BOOK. <3

Yeah they do but they also drink blood I think. I remember Ivy putting it on cereals at the start of the second book. ;D

That's a good point - I can't really imagine myself saying to someone "It would be killer for you to have boyfriend" either. But it is what it is I suppose.

That article makes the lavishness of the catering on The Groves movie set seem more realistic. But I don't get why you shouldn't have pizza on a movie set...

Another year, another MSTV re-read... as the old saying goes. Here's some things I noticed this time around that I thought we could discuss about this book:

Charles says near the beginning of this book that he thought it was important for the twins to not only connect with his family, but also their mother's relatives - hence his tracking down of Rebecca. I just thought this was so sweet and such a great thing for him to do for them. Plus it gives us all this new backstory on Susannah which is really awesome.

Here's a quote from pg 3:

My father would never willingly go back to the bunniest place in town - no offence Olivia." [Ivy said.]
Olivia didn't take any. All the vampires in Franklin Grove, like Ivy and Mr Vega, called non-vampires, like her, 'bunnies'.

I've noticed a couple of quotes like this in the series, where a character says they would never dream of doing something another character loves to do. It's usually vampires talking about bunny stuff that Olivia loves, but I think she's done it a couple of times with things like blood and coffins. It just makes me think about how difference is dealt with in this series. Take this example, where Ivy is open about not wanting to be like Olivia, but obviously they still love eachother and Olivia isn't offended. I can imagine myself being really insecure in Olivia's position but she's completely comfortable with herself, and to me, that makes her a total inspiration. Differing personalities and interests are what makes this series what it is, and the notion that difference is something to be scared of or avoided is not present at all. Charlotte Brown is the "mean girl", and she blindly follows what's "in" and is always changing her opinion to whatever she thinks will make her look best in a situation. Whereas Olivia and Ivy are loyal to themselves even if it doesn't please everyone. Plus, on top of that, they're really loyal to their friends, and that's never disrupted by the fact that one's a cheerleader, one's a goth, one's a sci-fi nerd, one's a photography geek etc, etc. It's just amazing!

Onto some stuff aout Romezog and Julietron now, since that's a big part of this book. I always laugh when Olivia says "Give me my Jackson." rather than "Give me my Romeo" when she's auditioning! I love what Camilla says here, too:

"Look, I am aware that Shakespeare in outer space isn't how it's usually done, but that is the best thing about his plays. They are universal, and his stories and characters are so rich they can be brought to life anywhere.

This is honestly exactly how I feel about Shakespeare (utter Shakespeare fangirl speaking in case you didn't know). The reason Shakespeare's works have endured so long is because there's so much room for interpretation - for different actors to bring these characters to life in their own ways, and even for readers to put their own spin on it. And that's exactly what Camilla is doing here, and I love her for that. Really wish I could see this play! Also, check out how mature she is being here. CAMILLA IS QUEEN.

I always thought that when Jackson seems happy being Mercutio, he was just being polite, but now that I have a better understanding of Romeo and Juliet (I studied it for my GCSEs), I think I'd react in the same way. He says "He's such a complex character" and that pretty much sums it up. In comparison, Romeo is naive, pretentious, changeable and sort of bland in my opinion. Mercutio is almost certainly the more interesting character, so I think Camilla was probably right in casting Jackson as him.

I wish we'd had more description of the theatre or hall they rehearsed and performed this play in. It was only during this, my bajillionth re-read, that I realised I've always just pictured my old primary school's assembly hall. Actually, now that I think about it, I do the same for the party in Twin Spins (MSTV#9) and the Homecoming dance in Puppy Love (MBTW#2). It's a shame not to have more description of it, but I suppose it makes sense in a book this short. Mercer can't describe everything, and most of us should be able to picture what a school play might look like. She seems to focus more on describing the characters and their outfits, I've noticed, and that's probably more useful because very few readers would be able to conjure up, say, Olivia's Julietron outfit in their minds without some kind of direction (I think it says something like "a cheerleading outfit spray-painted gold", which I think is really effective).

Moving on, the whole thing about Olivia and Ivy finding their mum's journal was lovely. I especially loved how Rebecca said she wouldn't read it, because Susannah wouldn't have wanted her to, but she'd be happy to explain anything to the twins if they were confused. I mean, how freaking beautiful is that?! I think most people would assume she would want to read the diary at once, but Sienna Mercer has got this really delicate appreciation of family relationships and what it's like to lose someone. Rebecca has her faults, but she 100% won me over as a caring person and an awesome aunt in this book.

There's a description on page 170 which I went back and read a couple of times when I passed it:

Olivia was leading the group of visitors, while Rebecca pointed out the features of the trail and helped anyone who needed encouragement. Olivia loved riding Honey and the crisp, sunny day was perfect for the tour along the river and through the pine trees.

I can picture this scene so clearly from just this short description. I absolutely love that the farm setting was brought into the series in this book. Franklin Grove is awesome, but it's nice having some variety and in particular some natural beauty for Sienna Mercer to show off her epic description skills with! This is just one of some really tranquil images portrayed in this story and I enjoyed that aspect of the book so much.

And finally, I think we're all agreed that characters are this author's superpower, and here are some thoughts I had on them through this book:
-when Ivy was showing Olivia's parents to their seats at the school play, it said, "The Abbotts always cheered her up," which I think is really cute. They always cheer me up too!
-there were mentions in this book of Brendan liking running and Jackson wearing an "eco warrior" t-shirt. I love these little snippets of information we get about the characters' personalities throughout the MSTV books. It really makes them feel like complex people to me, and it's nice to see glimpses of what they might get up to that's not covered directly in the books.
-I've always thought this is the book of Charles and Brendan. Charles says a couple of things about him which shows he cares about him, and Rebecca accuses Charles of jumping to defend Brendan too quickly at one point. It all shows you how similar they actually are, which just makes me geek out, and seeing that they get along further than Brendan just being Ivy's boyfriend is so heartwarming!

LOL, I remember that - you literally accepted the winner's cup in a football shirt (and the competition had nothing to do with football)!

Yay, happy birthday MSTMB! It's amazing that the group is still going strong after four years. I'm so excited for the fun and chat to be had in 2018. <3

Yeah, I suppose it's more likely they get their blood from animals. Now you say it, they might even have mentioned that at one point. I didn't really think they drank straight from dead bodies - that would be suuuper disturbing and might lead to vamp kids thinking it's OK to kill people! Scary thought. Still, the way it says "Ivy had seen more convincing smiles on corpses." seems to blatantly say she's SEEN dead people. I'm sure you're right though - it must just be an expression. (hopefully)

Oh, wow, thanks for pointing that out! I have hidden the spoiler now.

I like what you said about Olivia idolising Jackson. That makes what she said more realistic, but I still don't think it sends out the healthiest message. Although, to reiterate what I said before, later in the series I think more problems in relationships are explored and Olivia and Jackson's relationship is certainly not always perfect.

I'm going to have to disagree with you about the "It would be killer for you to have a boyfriend" quote - I don't have a problem with that at all personally. I can definitely see where you're coming from, but I don't think Ivy is saying here that NOT having a boyfriend makes Olivia any less killer. I like how positively this quote (and the series as a whole) presents relationships - it's a nice thing and Ivy's excited for her sister to have the chance to experience one with someone she really gets on with.

Hmm, yeah, the food quality could be unrealistic, but then again this is a really high budget movie, and maybe the director really likes his food so he specially requested it to be all fancy?! If I ever get to be on a movie-set, I'll check back here on my findings. :D

I guess that's a good point about not seeing as much of the old gang, and I think you're right it probably stems from the storyline Sienna Mercer chose for this book. But within the restrictions of that storyline, I think she did really well at including them. There was that awesome scene with all the friends going to the Meat and Greet at the start, and then Brendan did point out he was kind of being pushed to the side. I don't think Sienna Mercer forgot about all our old favourites by any means!

That's a great point about there being less comedy. Making readers laugh is a tricky thing to do and I think Sienna Mercer still pulled out some hilarious moments in this story.

Yep, Charlotte is the definition of stuck-up. I love what you said there about the main characters never stooping to her level. I think that sets a fantastic example to us readers.

Thank you! Cutting down words is by no means a strength of mine but I was pretty proud of myself for that one. :D Yep, I think that's a good move to still include Brendan's parents learning Olivia knows the Blood Secret.

Awesome job of book 4, I just have a couple of suggestions for how we could cut it down even further:

Tuesday: Ivy, Olivia, Sophia, Camilla and Brendan have a second emergency meeting about Ivy & her dad moving away. They decide to try and set him up with someone, and later choose Alice, a waitress at the Meat and Greet.

And then the next day we wouldn't need to say who Alice is.

Sunday: Operation FANGED spend the day planning and preparing a going away party for Mr Vega. Olivia finds Mr Vega's diary from the year Ivy & Olivia were born. Ivy & Olivia tell Mr Vega that they know he's their dad. Mr Daniels tells Olivia, Ivy and Mr Vega that it was simply natural, human complications that killed Susannah in labour - not giving birth to a vampire. Mr Vega tells Mr & Mrs Abbott that he's Olivia's biological dad but they're still her parents.

Man, this is kind of ridiculous, isn't it? We're doing the timeline twice just to try and cut down our own rambling. Only on My Sibling the Mythical Being, folks.

I'll take a stab at Take Two while I'm here also, since I feel duty bound to clear up the abomination of endless words I posted originally...

TAKE TWO (MSTV #5)

First appearance of Jerome the bodyguard, Jackson Caulfield, Lillian, Spencer the make-up artist, Jessica Phelps, Philippe the director.

~A couple of days / a week after the events of Vampalicious~
First day: Twins spend the morning at Mister Smoothie with Charles, who tells them he is leaving today for a business trip. Later, they discover that the Meat and Greet is closed while a movie shoot is in town. The star of the movie is Jackson Caulfield, who pays particular attention to Olivia. She gets tongue tied and is embarrassed about the encounter. Olivia and Ivy say goodbye to Charles, then have a sleepover at Olivia's house.
Next day: Jackson gives Olivia a tour of the set and they have lunch together, while Ivy and Sophia take on roles as extras. Ivy starts to suspect Jackson of being a vampire. The filming starts, but Jessica Phelps, Jackson's co-star, gets frustrated almost immediately and quits the movie.
Next day: Auditions are held for a replacement for Jessica. Olivia makes it to the reading, and despite Charlotte trying to sabotage her, nails it. Afterwards, Jackson asks her out. Ivy tells Olivia she thinks Jackson is a vampire, and Olivia decides she will break off their relationship tomorrow.
Next day: Jessica returns to the movie and Ivy learns she was the vampire, not Jackson. She rushes to tell Olivia just before Olivia accidentally reveals the Blood Secret to him. That evening, Ivy and Charles have dinner with the Abbotts. Jackson tells Olivia she got a supporting role in the movie, and asks her parents permission to take her to the movies. Just when thinking all is well, Ivy learns her father was away in Los Angeles, not Dallas like he said...

LOL this is just like us to make this timeline so insanely long! I think you're right we should try and cut them down. The third book seems to be where it starts to get long so I'll give it a shot with that one...

REVAMPED (MSTV #3)
First Appearance of Marc Daniels, Georgia Huntingdon, Bethany Daniels, Mrs Daniels, Valencia Deborg, Mr Boros and Frankie (ASHH security guard).

~A couple of days since the end of Fangtastic~
-Tuesday: Olivia and Ivy tell their parents (separately) they have a twin. Ivy meets Olivia's parents.
-Wednesday: Toby releases article in school newspaper about Ivy & Olivia being long-lost twins. Ivy & Olivia look for more information on their biological parents on the Vorld Vide Veb.
-Thursday: Mr Vega tells Ivy he has accepted a job in Europe that starts in 3 weeks.
-Friday: Ivy tells Olivia, Sophia and Brendan that she is moving to Europe. Ivy meets Brendan's dad.
-Saturday: Ivy goes shopping with Mrs Abbott. Later, Georgia Huntingdon does a photo shoot of the twins for VAMP magazine, and Sophia acts as assistant photographer.
-Sunday: Ivy and Olivia have lunch at Brendan's house. Mr Daniels tells them about Karl Lazar and how he broke the First and Second Laws of the Night.
-Monday: Ivy and Olivia have tests done on them at V-Gen (a vampire pharmaceutical company), to discover how vampire/human twins might be possible. They then break into the ASHH offices and discover a file on Karl Lazar and his wife Susannah Kendall. Olivia realises that Karl and Susannah are their parents.
-Wednesday: Ivy & Olivia's VAMP magazine issue is released. Ivy & Olivia find an article online about their birth mother's death which includes a photo of her. Mr Vega tells Ivy & Olivia that The Vampire Round Table require Olivia to take part in a series of tests to see whether she is worthy of knowing the blood secret.
-Friday: Olivia passes the first test of her initiation: the Test of Darkness.
-Saturday: Olivia passes the Test of Faith and the Test of Blood.
-Sunday: Ivy & Olivia find a picture of their biological parents on their wedding day in Charles's study. They realise he is Karl, their biological dad.

That's about all I'm able to do I think. I dare you to try and make it any smaller!

Here's a question for you: Which character do you like more, Ivy or Olivia?

I, for one, know that I could never choose. They are so different and so great in their individual ways that I feel it's just pointless to pick a favourite (lol, undermining my own question). It's like choosing between two of your best friends: you like them for different reasons because they're different people, you don't like one of them more.

I just wanted to bring up this question because it struck me how rare this surely is - for a series to have two different protagonists and for me to not like one over the other. I'm guessing lots of my fellow fans feel the same way - they like each of twins equally. I feel like usually in books everyone has one favourite character, that person they really connect with and love seeing featured. And especially in a longer series, you'd expect as the characters change, readers might go off one and grow to prefer the other. But I, personally, have never experienced that with this series. Maybe at some points in the later books I've liked the representation of one of the twins over the other, but when it comes down to the core traits of who I believe these characters truly are, I honestly love them both with all my heart. If this isn't a show of how realistic and well-crafted Sienna Mercer's characters are, I don't know what is.

I want to know what all of you think on this subject. Do you like Ivy and Olivia equally? Why do you think that is? How rare is that for you?

I've always thought it was cool there was a MSTV Wiki but have never really taken the time to look around it before. Barking Mad sounds so weird! Somebody should tell whoever the woman is that trains the dog that she's in a book, lol.

I re-read this book for what must be the thousandth time now, and thought I'd just come on here and talk gush about it to you guys.

I absolutely love the decadent, historical manors and palaces that this book takes place in. It's our first proper change of location in the series and what cooler place to go than Transylvania?! I love how Sienna Mercer describes the untamed countryside and close-knit communities there - it's truly magical. So glad we got to go back there later in the series!

Another thing Sienna Mercer always does well is romance, and I think this book really shows that off (clue is in the title, haha). Alex and Tessa's romance is super cute and so well foreshadowed, as we discussed above.

Something I really like about this book is Ivy's pretty progressive views on Valentine's Day. She talks about it being a big commercial plot which thesedays has no real point but for companies to make money - which when you think about it, is totally true. I'm not really sure what it means for this moral when she embraces Valentines at the end, but I kind of like that she loosened up and accepted that romantic gestures can be a nice thing.

I do think Olivia is undeniably pretty obsessed with Jackson in this book, and somewhat jealous at the beginning. I think the latter is understandable - at Jackson's signing she had all these expectations of having a nice goodbye with him and what she got was hours of other girls obsessing over him and about a minute of rushed contact with him. But I think she kind of let her worries about Jackson get in the way of appreciating the first time meeting her grandparents as the book goes on. And, even worse, this was almost rewarded with Jackson surprising her at the end. It's a really small thing, but perhaps a slight chip in the flawless diamond that is this story. :D

I actually think I'd have liked to have seen more of the family stuff. Everything we got about the twins and their grandparents was amazing, and my heart really went out to Charles in his little background storyline. What an awesome (and realistic!) arc for him when being reunited with his parents. The moments we got of him with his daughters were amazing too - when him and Ivy were lamely dancing at the ball and he was like "This isn't really our scene, is it?" I can't help grinning when I read it. Gah, it's so cute!

I loved that Georgia and her photo shoots made a comeback here - it's always so glamorous and just pure fun to read. I really noticed while reading this how often Sienna Mercer describes what people are wearing, and I think that's really cool. It's an interesting way of getting an insight into people's personalities and helping us really picture scenes. Plus I think it appeals to a lot of the tween girls reading this.

One of those tiny, insignificant things in the books that no normal reader would pay heed to but here on Siblical Being we love having deep discussions about is the twins' hair colour. On page one it says The doors slid open and blasted hot air in their faces, sending Ivy's black hair and matching scarf flitting behind her. then later on it definitely says Olivia has dark brown hair - plus the twins both have brown hair on all the covers. That's what I've always imagined them both to have, but I remember in a later book for a switch Olivia has to wear a black wig to impersonate Ivy, and now there's this. Identical twins should have the same hair colour, right? So either Ivy's dyed her hair, or this is just a mistake in the writing. It's probably the former, BUT later in this book Ivy pretends to be Olivia and nobody sees through it. It makes no sense! Any thoughts?

I recently re-read Take Two (MSTV#5) and this quote caught my eye:

Sophia waved her camera, her white smile lighting up her dark skin.

This is interesting to me because it opens up the idea of non-white vampires. We all know a stereotypical trait of vampires is that they're pale, and this is something that is mentioned in MSTV quite a lot. One example is this one from later in the book:

"You are truly beautiful," he [Spencer] said to Ivy, gently wiping a cleansing pad across her brow. "Your friend [Sophia], too. But you are both so pale."

OK, well straight away this seems to contradict the idea of Sophia's skin being dark, and I'm pretty sure there's been more mentions of her being pale in the rest of the series. So it would be easy to write this one mention (so far it's the only dark skin reference I've found for her but I'll keep my eyes peeled) as just a mistake in the writing.

Buuut, I still think this would be interesting to discuss. I think we can say for a fact that in MSTV, most vampires have pale white skin. What do you guys think about the idea of non-pale vampires?

First I'm going to go all science-nerd on you all. I am by no means an expert on this but from what I can gather, skin colour is caused by a combination of how long you (and your ancestors) spend in the sun and blood flow under your skin. Let's start with the first one, which is the kind of complicated bit. Your genetics determine how much melanin (the pigment that produces colour in the skin) you have. The purpose of melanin is to absorb ultraviolet rays from the sun, preventing you getting sunburnt. So the more melanin you have, the darker your skin is, and the less likely you are to get sunburnt. In other words, this is why pale people are more easily sunburnt.

The key here is that as you are exposed to sunlight, your body produces extra melanin to protect you, which is what gives people tans.

Luckily the latter factor seems to be slightly simpler: those with poor blood flow are likely to look pale, those with a healthy amount of blood circulation may appear to "glow", and those with high blood pressure may appear ruddy-skinned. But how much this actually affects your skin colour depends on your melanin levels - for example if you have lots of melanin and therefore very dark skin, having poor blood flow would not make you as pale as someone with very low melanin levels.

OK, did you get all that? Let's apply this to vampires. I imagine typical vampires are pale for the same reason some people are pale, just on a more extreme level. Vampires spend a lot of time inside in the dark, and they're probably "bloodless" to some extent, right? And that's why they have to drink blood? Ooh, or maybe it's something to do with them being "undead" - it could be they can't produce their own blood?

As melanin levels are caused by not only how much time you spend in sunlight, but your genetics, it seems like a black person who turned into a vampire become a little more lighter in skin tone, but they wouldn't become a full-on white-as-a-sheet stereotypical vamp.

The trouble with this though is that vamps are no longer biting people and transforming them into vampires. And during the time when biting was permitted, travel wasn't as accessible as it is now and communities weren't as diverse (in terms of ethnicity) as they are today. SO the old vampires in ancient Transylvania (if we're assuming that's where they originated) probably weren't coming across - and converting to vampires - many dark-skinned peeps.

Add this to the fact that vamps are only allowed to marry and have kids with other vamps, I imagine they have a pretty small gene pool. It's not like mixed race vampires will start cropping up everywhere in the modern day, even if the vampires are hanging around lots of people of different ethnicities, because they're only allowed to mate with their 'race'. Not unless everyone is breaking the Second and Third Laws of the Night all over the place.

Basically my view on this right now is that black (or any coloured race identity) vampires are definitely possible, but given the vampires' history and practises, it probably isn't that common. And lol, yes, I know all this isn't actually real but I've gone down a massive rabbit hole now and I need to talk this over with my peeps! So, what are your thoughts on Sophia having dark skin?

Ahh, I was grinning the whole time I read that, Sophie! Love it! You did a great job of keeping the adjectives on the low. :) I do realise now though that the voice in my head was reading it like an exaggerated salesperson, so I see where you're coming from with the advert thing, lol.

That's good point about the fun parts only being "moments" - I can definitely see that misleading people who might expect something darker. How about this for that middle sentence...

Join Ivy and Olivia as they unravel the mysteries of the spooky vampire world, all while enjoying the fun, feel-good moments that make this series truly unforgettable.

I know this still contains the m-word, but maybe it flows a little better?

I'm going to take a whack at the timeline for the fifth book...

First appearance of Jerome the bodyguard, Jackson Caulfield, Lillian (do we ever learn her surname?), Spencer the make-up artist, Jessica Phelps, Philippe the director.

Also, before I forget, I think we should add Katie and Allison, Charlotte's friends, as having their first appearance in Switched.

OK, now onto the actual timeline:

-First day: Twins spend the morning at Mister Smoothie's with their dad. For lunch, they head to the Meat and Greet with Brendan, Sophia and Camilla, then find that it is closed for a film shoot. Soon trailers arrive and barriers are put up to create a movie set. Jackson Caulfield, the star of the movie, arrives and pays particular attention to Olivia. She gets tongue tied and is embarrassed about the encounter. Olivia and Ivy go back to Ivy's house and say goodbye to Charles. Olivia helps Ivy pack then they head to Olivia's house for a sleepover. Olivia's parents serve up a vegetarian dinner and Olivia has to eat twice as much to cover up the fact that Ivy isn't eating any. Olivia makes Ivy a makeshift coffin to sleep in out of her dressing table.

-Next day: Ivy and Olivia invite Sophia over in the morning and Sophia and Ivy plot how to get Olivia a second chance with Jackson. At the movie set, Brendan shows them a side entrance and Olivia hears a security guard there complaining about Jackson. She sticks up for Jackson, not knowing he is there in front of her, disguised as another security guard. He lets them into the set and gives them a tour in thanks. In order to let Olivia and Jackson be alone, Ivy and Sophia sneak away, and get mistaken for extras. They get makeovers, and Ivy begins to suspect Jackson is a vampire on seeing "his" super-strong fake tan. Meanwhile Olivia has lunch with Jackson, liking how normal he seems but put off by the "hunk of cow" burger he seems to be eating. He gives her a VIP Guest pass. At the diner, filming begins. In the middle of the run-through of the scene, Sophia makes Ivy laugh and Jessica Phelps, Jackson's co-star, bursts out that she can't work in these conditions, and quits the movie. Olivia, Ivy and Sophia meet up with Brendan and Bethany outside the set. Later that day, Ivy researches whether Jackson is a vamp on the Vorld Vide Veb, but finds nothing.

-Next day: Ivy, Sophia, Olivia and Camilla go to the movie set and Jackson announces there will be an open audition to find a replacement for Jessica, and also tells Olivia he would love it if she auditioned. Olivia decides she will, and Ivy resolves to find out the truth about Jackson once and for all. She tries to get Lillian to tell her, but Lillian doesn't take the hint. Then, at the cafeteria, she gets hold of a dietary requirements list, which appears to say Jackson cannot eat garlic. Olivia auditions and makes it to the reading. While practising her lines with Camilla, Charlotte comes in and tells her Ivy has fought with Brendan and is at the mall. Olivia goes to the mall, disregarding her audition, but when she phones Ivy she realises Charlotte was lying to sabotage her audition. Ivy disguises herself as Olivia, does terrible in her audition, but fortunately she is interrupted by the press arriving, giving Olivia time to get there and nail the audition. Jackson asks Olivia out. Later, Ivy spots Jackson in his trailer taking out a contact lens. She interprets this as conclusive proof that Jackson is a vampire. She tells Olivia, who decides she will be honest with Jackson and tell him she knows the Blood Secret, and break off their relationship.

-Next day: Ivy meets Jessica at the Bloodmart, her having returned to the movie, and learns that Jackson is in fact not a vampire. She interrupts Olivia and Jackson's talk (in which Jackson is very confused) and Olivia is thrilled to learn she doesn't have to break it off with Jackson. That night, Ivy and her Dad are having dinner with the Abbotts, when Jackson comes to the door. He tells her she got a supporting role in the movie, and asks her parents permission to take her to the movies. Just when thinking all is well, Ivy learns her father was away in Los Angeles, not Dallas like he said...

There doesn't seem to be any mention of days in the book, but I did find these clues as to when it might take place:

page 10: "Just last week, the twins had been forced to try every trick in the book to avert disaster and convince Mr Vega not to leave Franklin Grove."

Page 12: Mr Vega says he'll be back from his trip "before school starts". So this must take place during the same Christmas holidays that the last book ended on.

Any additions or theories are, as always, appreciated!!

Here's some I spotted in Take Two (MSTV#5):

On page 15, Ivy's ring tone is said to be the first riffs of the musical The Phantom of the Opera. You can listen to it here - is this song freaky or what?! I can imagine Ivy liking it. :D

On page 32: "Yes, sir," Camilla squeaked, looking like Goldilocks facing off with the biggest bear. I can kind of picture Camilla looking like Goldilocks, with the curly hair and faraway look. <3

When Olivia denies she likes Jackson: "Is that . . . is your nose . . ." Ivy was peering at Olivia's face. "Is your nose growing, Pinocchio?" If you didn't know, Pinocchio is a popular character best known for the fact that his nose grew when he lied.

There may be more I missed, but this is all I've got right now!

This may be my favourite of the first five books, LOOOVED rereading it and have lots of things to discuss so here we go! I'm sure we've established by now that nearly everything I mention after MSTV rereads at this point is crazy insignificant and won't at all be of interest to you unless you are also an obsessive, vampalicious, blood-sucking MSTV nerd. If so, welcome my friend, let's do this...

On page 7 it says: 'Ivy had seen more convincing smiles on corpses.' Does this mean Ivy has seen corpses? Could this be the answer to where vamps get their blood fix from? Just an expression?

When Ivy and Charlotte are talking about her not moving to Europe: '"Did they refuse to let you in for crimes against fashion?" Charlotte smirked. Katie and Allison giggled. "It turns out I'm needed here," Ivy retorted, "for a campaign against conformity." - I've always been a little confused by this quote before this reread, as I don't think I knew what conformity meant then. But now I really love it - definitely a score for Ivy! I feel this really sums up Charlotte and Ivy's characters - Charlotte is quite cliche and predictable, whereas Ivy is smart and original.

In the Switched discussion Sophie noticed Olivia comparing nerves to cheering at nationals, and wondered whether Olivia actually had done that (message 35). Well, I've found more proof that she might have: 'Walking around a movie set with Jackson Caulfield was even better than cheering at nationals.' (page 78) This sounds like proof to me, but this is probably one of those things that we will only ever be sure about if Sienna Mercer could (somehow!) directly answer our question.

Every time I read this book (and many of the other books), I am impressed by the research Sienna Mercer seems to have put into making things convincing, even in a kids' book. What I'm specifically talking about in terms of this book is the movie speech - terms like 'continuity editor', 'craft service' and 'blocking' are thrown around casually by Jackson, and it really makes him sound like the experienced actor he is. Mercer might just have experience on movie sets, but the same know-how is true for Justin and his football and Daniel and his music, both in MBTW, Olivia and her cheerleading and probably a ton of other stuff I'm forgetting throughout the two series. Either Sienna Mercer is has some very widespread talents, or she does her research - either way, I appreciate the hard work!

The moment on page 80 when Amy asks Jackson, in his security guard disguise, where Jackson is, and he replies, "Who's Jackson?", making her really frustrated, always cracks me up. Jackson and Amy have a great relationship. :D

Here's something else I found interesting - this is Ivy: '"Honestly, Olivia and Jackson are like Romeo and Juliet - meant to be together!" [...] They did seem to be a great fit, except for Olivia wanting a 'perfectly normal' boyfriend.' Aside from being potential foreshadowing for (view spoiler)[Olivia and Jackson being in Romeo and Juliet together (hide spoiler)] (spoilers for Lucky Break {MSTV#7}), I'm wondering if this whole 'normal boyfriend' thing is hinting at (view spoiler)[Olivia and Jackson eventually breaking up because of the pressure of his fame (hide spoiler)]. (spoilers for Stake Out {MSTV#12} I think?? Don't quite remember, but I don't think it's any later than that) Whether it was a purposeful hint or not, this does seem to have been a possibility (perhaps even an inevitability) from the beginning of their relationship, which I think makes the whole thing flow really well.

Another thing related to Olivia and Jackson's relationship is this paragraph: 'Olivia crinkled her nose [on seeing Jackson supposedly eating a meat burger]. It was the only thing about Jackson this whole morning that surprised her; it looked like Jackson's taste buds were more in line with Ivy's than her own. She couldn't help feeling it made him a little less . . . perfect. Honestly, I find this whole 'perfect boy for her' thing kind of problematic. Because, in reality, you're never going to find the perfect person for you - we all have imperfections - and especially not when you're thirteen. For once, I feel like Sienna Mercer is sending the wrong message with her romance here. The only flaw Olivia found in Jackson turned out to be a misunderstanding in the end, and I think it sets up unrealistic expectations for young people reading this. I guess the subject of working through relationship problems is addressed more in some of the later books. Do you guys have any thoughts on this?

All right, just as we were beginning to get onto something actually worthy of discussion, I'm going to mention something tiny again - Olivia and Ivy's brief mention of the fake "computer repair man" who came to install a VVV chip in Olivia's computer. Olivia says he was wearing "a Hawaiian shirt and sandals with socks", presumably in an effort to hide his vamp-ness. This really reminds me of Arthur Weasley and many of the other wizards in the Harry Potter series, who work for the government but have no clue how to blend in with muggles, and end up wearing ridiculous clothes. It's the younger generation, who actually live alongside the bunnies/muggles who know how to act around them. Love!

Now something more ominous, on page 141 - 'I can't blurt out that Jackson is a vampire without proof, Ivy thought. But if they ended up starring in a movie together, Olivia could totally end up falling for him. What should I do? Could this be the start of the renowned 'one twin can't share their suspicions that end up being true because they don't have PROOF' thing we've talked about before? It helps keep the story going, I suppose, but I dislike this plot device. It feels convenient and out of character.

Then there's this quote which warms my heart every time, when Ivy is preparing to audition in Olivia's place: 'Ivy had always liked Camilla, but today she had learned what a good friend she really was. Camilla had come up with a set of hand-signal codes to help prompt Ivy if she forgot her lines.' CAMILLA IS THE BEEEEEST. <3

There's also this, when from Ivy about Jackson: 'She decided, if he wasn't a vampire, she would definitely approve of him for her sister.' It's little things like this - Ivy being protective of Olivia - that I love to see in sibling relationships. Cute!

Moving on, I feel like the auditioning process is really strange. The girls stand in front of the camera and answer questions about themselves? Is this a normal way of cutting down auditionees? I'm not sure. Maybe the purpose is to measure how comfortable each person is in front of the camera, or how they perform under pressure? It could also be to measure their understanding of character - by showing how they understand themselves?? I guess it's not that bad of a method then.

So let's talk about the ending. I really like how it didn't end with Olivia getting the part of Mia in the movie. That would be way too predictable and perfect. I loved the progression of Olivia and Jackson's relationship (the most that happened between them was their first date was arranged, and even that took basically the whole book to happen) and I think this small part Olivia's got to begin her acting career reflects that. Good stuff! I also loved it when Ivy said only she could mistake a vegetarian for a vampire. I can't remember what I thought the first time I read this, but I'm interested if there's any first-time readers lurking - did you believe Jackson was a vampire?

OKKK that's the end of the longest comment we've probably ever had on this group. ...Not even sorry. :D

Lol, I was just thinking as I read that, "wow, you have a list, good thinking, we need that!" :D