Jonathan’s Comments (group member since Oct 24, 2013)

Jonathan’s comments from the Reading Proust's In Search of Lost Time in 2014 group.

Dave wrote: "My Brothel comment is message 4. The previous three messages do not contain spoilers but message five does contain spoilers. "

Interesting comments Dave. I'm still not sure if it was a good idea to include the 'war stuff'; it seems a bit out of step with the rest of the novel, especially when he's skipping over most of the period by being in the sanatorium. And it looks like the last section takes place after the war anyway - presumably that will be the ending that he originally wrote before the war.

Dave wrote: "As you will see when you get to my original comments in the last week, I had a unique interpretation of the brothel section. But although I eventually realized I was way out in left field, I left it since it still makes sense to me. "

I haven't read any of your notes on the last week yet. What message numbers are your brothel notes? Are there any major spoilers? If not, then I may read them.

Dave wrote: "Now Jonathan, lets be charitable, the priest was there to hear confession from the sinners. And even Proust would be astonished to hear that 100 years later the priest might be there to marry the solders! "

He! He!

When I was reading it I originally got confused and thought I was reading something by Zola...what with all the squalid sexual stuff and the priest-bashing it was an easy mistake to make!

Dave wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "I notice on the Wikipedia page that Proust died on 18th November 1922."

Not sure what you had in mind mentioning the date of Proust's death Jonathan, but I know that I was focused..."

I only meant that it was 92 years ago today.

What do you mean that Proust's death defined the length of the story? Do you mean that he would have continued adding bits if he'd lived? I thought he had an original plan and apart from the Albertine material that he inserted he'd more or less kept to it.

I'm hoping to find out more about this side when I start my post-ISOLT reading. :-)

I spotted this book, Paris at the End of the World: How the City of Lights Soared in Its Darkest Hour, 1914-1918 in my local library, noticed that it had the quotes from Proust concerning women's fashions re 'cylindrical turbans on their heads' etc. and took it home. I'll probably not read it until December though.

I liked the way that Proust went from the bondage scene to Charlus discussing the type of men he wanted then to the similarity of the men to Morel then to the love that Charlus felt for Morel and then to love in general.

At the end of this part is this great quote:

The horror that grand people have for the snobs who strive so hard to make their acquaintance is also felt by masculine men for inverts, and by women for every man who is too much in love with them.

Renato wrote: "I have to say I found Charlus's tastes very funny, wanting them to be mean, evil men that would murder people for no reason so he'd feel more pleasure in being spanked.. LOL omg at that! "

Yes, he just wants the real thing; real murderers and cutthroats...and they have to look similar to Morel.

For me, the funniest part of this week's reading was when Marcel bumps into a priest in the brothel and says: 'It was that very rare thing, almost unheard of in France, a rotten priest.' - I'm assuming that his tongue was firmly in his cheek. :-)

BTW if a priest goes to a brothel of any sort then wouldn't he go incognito?

Renato wrote: "I confess I was a bit shocked at Charlus's tastes though... but to each its own, right? "

Charlus's sexual tastes and Jupien's hotel certainly take centre stage in this week's reading. It must have been very daring to write about a male brothel at the time, but especially where the 'workers' are all soldiers of WWI.

Marcelita wrote: "Dave wrote: "Renato wrote: "
"In this book in which there is not a single event which is not fictitious, in which there is not a single personage "a clef", where I have invented everything to sui..."

Thanks for all the links Marcelita. I'm going to enjoy perusing all the info you've added for us when I've finished ISOLT.

I notice on the Wikipedia page that Proust died on 18th November 1922.

Dave wrote: "Renato wrote: "I believe this section is among the ones I read faster! So much going on, it was fun and enticing.

Once again, our narrator was quite the voyeur! Not only he likes x-raying people w..."

When reading this originally I was a bit unsure whether the letter was written to Marcel as the paragraph before it just says that the letter was left for him and the letter itself was only addressed to 'My dear friend'.

Dave wrote: "I relate to your work experience Jonathan. I was a technical writer for the government for 14 years. My natural style is several long sentences punctuated with a short sentence for emphasis. People..."

It can be exasperating...but quite funny as well at times. It all stems from an inability to pay attention to anything. IMO The main causes are open-plan offices and the rise of the internet. I notice it with myself as well which is why it's nice to do something, like reading Proust, that forces one to pay attention.

Great links Dave. re long sentences, I find that at work some people only ever seem to read the first few words of an email; is this the Twitter influence?

One benefit of reading Proust is that it has helped me get back to using longer sentences. I was told by people, especially at Uni where I admittedly did a science degree, to shorten my sentences - but it doesn't always seem natural.

It's amusing to think of Hemingway reading Proust and vice versa.

Ha! ha! Get working Renato! 2015 will be the year you translated Proust.

I think Mme Verdurin is a contender for my vote for 'favourite character' in the novel - I can't quite make up my mind though. I mean she's a monster and I'd hate to know her personally but she reminds me of another hideous, but fascinating character, the hostess Beverly in Abigail's Party. In this section Mme Verdurin's attempts to destroy Charlus's character, by implying he's a German spy and Brichot's prestige by ridiculing him are both funny and scary. Anyone who doesn't kowtow to her demands must be DESTROYED! :-)

Dave wrote: "Harumpf, I still don't agree that Cottard goes there. Guess I'll have to arm wrestle the translators.

Has anyone identified where in the story Cottard dies and where he comes back to life? Last ti..."

I agree that Brichot seems more appropriate.

I can't remember exactly when Cottard's death was first mentioned but I believe it was at one of the gatherings at the Verdurins' - I'll have to check. But I think this passage was one of those disputed/additional passages anyway so I guess that Proust was in the process of deciding where best to 'kill off' Cottard.

Talkinq of quotations, in this section I found this one interesting:

A general is like a writer who wants to write a play, or a book, but whom the book itself, with the unexpected options that it reveals at one point, the impasse it presents at another, causes to deviate extensively from his preconceived plan.

Presumably Proust is commenting on his own book.

Saint-Loup's character has gone through a bit of a rollercoaster ride in the novel. At first he was presented as some sort of God-like figure, then his character was sullied somewhat, but now he's being presented almost as a chivalric modern-day knight whose ideal is to fight and die in battle.

I especially liked this humorous quote though:

I admire Saint-Loup's asking to be sent to the positions where there was greatest danger infinitely more than M. de Charlus's avoiding wearing brightly coloured cravats.

Ha! Ha!

Dave wrote: ""This is exactly what I have in my Moncrieff translation." To correct what I wrote above, Moncrieff died before this Volume was translated. I forget who did the initial English Translation."

Dave, see message 33 in the 11/08 thread for info I gleaned from the Penguin intro - see here.