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Episode 55: Lisa Kohn’s Author Journey

Photo by melpomen / 123rf.com

Click here to listen on your device and subscribe! 

Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. In this episode, we are joined by Lisa Kohn—award winning author, leadership consultant, and executive coach.

Today’s episode is part of a new series. The series is based on my book, which is scheduled to come from Berrett Koehler publishers in April 2022. So this is the first time ever on the podcast that I am going to announce that the book is coming. The book is called Reach: Creating Lasting Impact for your Book, Message, or Cause. Lisa Kohn is an author friend of mine, and I’m interviewing her for the purposes of talking about her in the book. So we decided that we would use our own approach, which is to repurpose content, and that we would record a podcast with Lisa so that you can learn from her now, so later, I can put some of her lessons into my book. And we have some other surprises along the way about how we want to repurpose our content in a way that will help our audiences the most. 

About Lisa Kohn

Becky: So Lisa, let’s start, and I would love for you to introduce our audience to you and talk about your work in the world and your books, as we get started.

Lisa: So yes, thank you for saying books. So as you know, my story starts broad and comes down narrow. I’ll start with the way I described my childhood is: the best seats I ever had at Madison Square Garden, Were at my mother’s wedding because my mom got married on July 1, 1982, with 2,075 other couples, because I grew up in a religious cult, a member of the Unification Church. On the other hand, the best cocaine I ever had was from my father’s friend, the judge. Yes, really a judge, I’ve been asked. 

And that was then, and now I am an author, award-winning author, leadership consultant, executive coach. I work with C-suite leaders in Fortune 50 companies and nonprofits, helping them be more thoughtful, more intentional, more present, and more authentic in their work and in their lives. So that’s me, the two sides, and the books reflect that. So a number of years ago, we put out our book, The Power of Thoughtful Leadership, which is truly, long story short, my life is saved many ways by daily readers. The Power of Thoughtful Leadership is basically a daily reader where you can find a topic and find a quick thought on how to stop and ground and be more intentional on how you show up. And then two and a half years ago, tomorrow, my memoir To the Moon and Back: A Childhood Under the Influence was published. So those are my two books that I have been pushing and riding the waves with for the last few years.

What was the journey of publishing your memoir?

Becky: Thank you so much, Lisa. Let’s talk specifically today, I’m really interested in diving into your book To the Moon and Back. Because when I first met you, you had a draft of that memoir, and it took a few years before you brought it to market. But I’m curious what aspirations fueled that and tell us a little bit about that journey to publishing your memoir.

Lisa: So I get asked many times why I did it. What was the reason? What fueled me to do it? And I hate to admit, I don’t know fully. So long story short, I crashed and burned in the mid, almost late 80s, and was engaged to someone who drank a hell of a lot and was just on the road to destruction, self destruction, and I crawled into a 12 step program called Al-Anon, saying, “tell me if he’s an alcoholic; there’s no way I’d ever be with an alcoholic.” First of all, there are a myriad of reasons why I would be; I grew up in a cult. I would tell my story, and people with their jaws would drop, right? As my brother says, when you run with like hundreds of people who tell all these incredible stories and you tell yours and everybody goes, “Wow,” you go, “Oh, there’s something there,” and everyone would say you should write a book. 

So fast forward. Still a long time ago, probably about 20 years or so, I decided to write, because I was a coach, I was gonna write a powerful, hopeful book, and I was gonna write a half memoir, half self-help. “Here’s what happened to me. Here’s how it messed me up. I got better, you can too.” I would get incredibly warm glowing rejections from agents, “amazing story,” “you’re actually a good writer,” “you’re not famous enough,” “where will they put you in Barnes and Noble.” Then in around 2009, an agent called me and said, “If you write a memoir, I’ll represent you”, to which I famously said, “Please excuse me, I don’t want to write another Glass Castle because I want to write a glimmer of hope.” And she said, “You should be so lucky as to write a Glass Castle.” And she’s right, because it’s an amazing book, but I wrote the memoir, and she didn’t take me on. Then there was a series of many years finding another agent that I then lost. Finally, I found my publisher directly. It’s an indie house in East Village where I grew up in New York City. I found her in 2016, and signed with her in 2017. The book came out in 2018. So you have more to your question than that, but that’s a long story. 

Now, I have reasons why I’ve spent the last two and a half years strongly promoting the book, and even bringing the book very clearly into the work I do with leaders and bringing my past into it. But I did it, because someone said it was a good idea. And one of the scars of my childhood is that if you put something in front of me, I will do it. I will do it no matter what. I will do it till I die, even if I die, I will get it done. I was persistent and got amazing rejections for a really long time and never gave up. Now the book is out there making a difference in the world, which is why I care about it. So where do you want me go further with that question?

What are your greatest hopes for your book?

Becky: Sure, I’d love to hear what your greatest hopes for the book are. So now that it’s here, you mentioned that you’ve been marketing it for two and a half years. What is it that you want this book to do? What are your hopes for it?

Lisa: So the week it came out, it came out on Tuesday, and that Thursday morning, I was on Megyn Kelly back when there was a Megyn Kelly show. And that Thursday evening, I had a book reading in my hometown where I live in Pennsylvania, outside of Philly. And in the afternoon, I was sitting on my side porch, and my next door neighbor said, “Hey, what’s going on today?” And I said, “Funny, you should ask, I was on national television this morning.” And I told him the story because nobody really knew. I always kept it quiet. And within weeks, his wife emailed me and she said, “thank you for giving us all the courage to tell our childhood stories,” and that’s why I do it. 

So I have three messages. My three main messages are that extremist situations exist, they are really prevalent, they are all over. They’re highly intoxicating. It is the best drug ever to have a Messiah, and they’re very dangerous. Message two: for anyone who feels hopeless or damaged beyond repair, there is hope and you are not damaged. I realized when the book came out, I still thought I was damaged. I have them, I have scars. I’m not damaged. It’s a very different perspective. And the third that I know from my own life, from my work as an executive coach, is that as a species, we are way too hard on ourselves. We’re self-critical and self-judging and we just need a huge dose of self-love, and self-compassion. 

So my hope for the book is that it will spread these messages that will reach the people who have been in or grown up in extreme situations, and those who’ve had any sort of situation, and help them realize that the shame they’re holding is not theirs to keep. They don’t need to be in shame and they can truly let it go. I’m still trying to let mine go, but I’m daily letting it go. As I said to someone just the other day, if I’ve only reached the thousands, maybe tens of thousands, I’ve reached with the book and with the message, then that’s enough, because I am lucky to be happy, right? And I just want to spread that message of hope and love, self-compassion and self-love, to as many people as I possibly can, which I also do in my work. I like to say I’m the executive coach who talks about love in the C-suite, right? But now that books out and you Google me, you know my story. So I will tell everybody, I grew up in a cult. Yep, I ended up in a 12 step program. And yes, you deserve to be happy and to take care of yourself. And let’s help you do that. So that’s why!

How do you feel looking back on being on national TV?

Becky: I love that. So Lisa, you mentioned being on the Megyn Kelly show, and I watched that clip, it was amazing. And that’s obviously national TV. A big platform is a huge one for any author. So I’m curious if you would share with us briefly about what that achieved for you or how you feel about it looking back now?

Lisa: You know, that’s a funny question. So when the book was coming out, I hired a branding firm to help me, not yours, but a different branding firm to help me do the cover of the book and stuff, and then I hired a publicist, because I was determined to do this. And they did get me on Megyn Kelly and it was a wonderful experience. I don’t know that it did very much for me other than let me be able to say I’m on Megyn Kelly and know that I could be on Megyn Kelly and be fine. Like literally you just talk to Megyn and talk to Megyn, and she got something completely wrong before the commercial break. And you can kind of tell because we went to commercial break and I said, “That’s not what happened.” So when we come back from commercial break, she starts to say something and she’s like “Well, maybe you should tell us the story,” because she realized she had no idea what the story was. But you think, “Megyn Kelly! Millions of people will buy my book!” No, no. You know, and my message was less honed then. I was just starting out, my message has truly developed as I’ve spoken somewhat endlessly about it over the last two and a half years. So I’m happy I did it. I got a lot of great publicity, probably the best thing I got was, I was in Marie Claire, and that went on Apple News for the weekend, which was really cool. 

So publicity is great. But publicity, sometimes it feels like it only got me the chance to say that I have publicity, right? Which can get me more publicity, but you never know. You never know where one, just the one right person is going to see it. There’s currently potentially a documentary on the church that I’m involved with, because the producer was looking for something and stumbled on my book. So you never know who you’re going to reach and when. 

What do you think has worked best for you for expanding the reach of this book?

Becky: So I love that you said that, Lisa, that you never know who you’re going to reach when. So could you talk a bit more about what you think has worked best for you and expanding the reach of this book.

Lisa: I honestly say the good thing about believing I have an important message is it means I asked just about anybody and everybody, if they know somewhere I can speak, somewhere I can do a reading, somewhere I can promote. So I just keep asking. I do think it’s those, that it just keeps going and beginning more and beginning more and beginning more. 

There’s the potential documentary. There’s something else maybe going to happen that’s really cool. And if it does, we’ll probably help it push really high. But it’s just asking this person and asking this person. And I guess guest blog posts in places, and I speak just about anywhere, I just keep going. I do as many podcasts as possible, whenever someone reaches out if it makes sense, I’ll do it. Because on one hand, it will help it take off, and on the other hand, if I reach that one person who’s in pain, then that’s why I’m really doing it, right? It’s the emails and the Twitter direct messages and the Instagram messages. It’s those things I get that blow my mind from strangers that keep me just going. I wish I had a plan other than try this, try that, and try this and try that, and try and try and try and try, and keep asking people who they know who’d want to help me spread the message.

Becky: I think you hit on something really important, Lisa. You have to keep going.

Lisa: It’s not even a marathon. It’s like a triathlon and I can’t swim. So it’s a hard triathlon, right? It’s constantly reaching my leadership consulting business, right? And the book, there’s always at least a couple hundred things, I should be doing more, right? There’s always more, there’s always another. So it’s this combination of, what do I want to do today? What am I going to do this week? What am I going to do? And then also, when am I going to stop? When am I going to practice what I preach? When am I going to take care of myself? Because I could work nonstop and never get it all done. But each week there’s one more email I send or person I ask or place I can speak. I literally ran into a neighbor and was like, “Oh, I didn’t know your husband was the pastor of the church. What do you want me to talk to anybody about extreme religions?” Right? Because I’m able to say it’s not about me. Yes, I’d love to sell millions of books. Yes, I want to be in the New York Times bestseller, but one because it’s fun, but mostly because I want people to hear the message. So it allows me to just keep asking and just keep going and take some time off and then pick it up and do a couple more things.

What is your attitude towards fame and fortune?

Becky: Love it. So you alluded a bit to it, but I’m wondering if you would tell me what your attitude toward fame and fortune is?

Lisa: My attitude towards fame and fortune. If I’m lucky enough to get it, I’ll probably wonder why I wanted it. Right? If I was really famous, right? Because I know that it does a whole warpy thing to one’s life. If the documentary and a couple other things actually happen, it could be really fun. And I’m just determined to have fun with it. And again, I go back to the message I want to share is so important to me, that fame and fortune is a way to share that message. So I know that the world doesn’t need me to share it, but I can be one more person who can share it, right? And if I can get famous enough that my story is big enough that other people can be in their situation and know that they have hope, then it’s all worth it. If something interesting happens, I might make the money I’ve spent on the book, I may never make the money back I spent on the book, but I did it. I did it for a reason. I did it for all of those who were called second gens or third or fourth, like those of us born and raised in extremist situations. I did it for all of them. I did it for anyone who’s stuck in an extremist situation. I did it for anyone who has this dysfunction in their family and in their childhood and in their current family and is in pain and suffering. That’s why I did it. So I’m determined to have fun with whatever happens. But I’m also out here to hopefully have one more person reach out to me and say thank you, you really gave me hope.

What role has generosity played in your journey?

Becky: So Lisa, tell me what role generosity has played on your journey.

Lisa: Well, I probably am very generous with the book itself. Actually, I’m keynoting for a not for profit, annual luncheon Women’s Resource Center here in Wayne in April. And I am obviously donating books to give away in the hopes that it makes more people sign up. If I meet someone in an extremist situation, or born and raised in an extremist situation, I will always give them the book for free, give them an electronic book or send them a copy of the book. So I tried to be generous. I try to be generous with my time. I try to be generous with my story. I will answer almost any question, as long as it’s not about the immediate family right now, I’ll answer any question. I will just bear any part of the weirdness inside me in order to help people, so I’m hoping I’m generous. And I clearly have gotten a lot of generosity. I have people introduce me to people. I have people open their homes to have me come and speak to their friends. I’ve had people sponsor things for events for me. I will do any book club. I will do anything and I’ve had people open themselves and invite their friends to come and hear it. So generosity has been given to me and I try to be generous as I keep going. 

What is a book Fairy?

Becky: I’m trying to remember back before COVID stopped most air travel. I remember that you had this approach of leaving books in airports. Talk about that.

Lisa: It’s called book fairies. I believe it originated in Scotland. It’s still going, they’re doing it in a different way. But it’s a worldwide initiative where authors will leave their books and other books, called book fairies. And it’s like, leave a book, enjoy the book, pass it on. And it’s just the idea to spread the message of your book and other books and get people reading again. The book fairies, it’s great, and they are still going in some ways. Clearly, it’s shut down a lot since COVID, and hopefully it will pick back up a lot when things open up again. But yeah, it was fun. I had friends who I gave eight of my books, and I’m like, “leave them every time you’re anywhere”, and then they would leave them and then post it. And I did it so many times. The first time the person reached out to me, and then they left it that next day, and that person reached out to me. And most of the other times I didn’t hear from anybody, but you never know. You never know who’s gonna read it. You never know who’s going to read it, who’s going to pick it up or pass it on or whatever. So yeah, it’s just another way to spread the love.

Is there anything you’ve learned about book marketing you wish I had asked you about?

Becky: So Lisa, is there anything else that you’ve learned about book marketing that you wish I had asked you about?

Lisa: It feels daunting, right? You’re probably going to say there are specific things one should do and, and there are, but I always say it feels like there’s always more that I could be doing. And there must be a secret sauce that I haven’t figured out yet. 

But I don’t know that that’s actually true. And so for me, it’s just one day at a time. One more thing. One more thing. Do I need to sign up for this class? It tells me exactly how to do it. Maybe, maybe not. There’s always more. That’s not supposed to be the answer I’m supposed to give. But it’s this combination of, what do I want to do today? Why am I doing this? When do I need to take a break? And what’s one more thing I can do? I was told I’d be lucky if I sold 200 books. I’ve sold a lot more than 200 books. They say nonfiction books sell about 200 on average from an unknown author. So that is what it is. Always be willing to look one more place, talk to one more person, ask for one more idea, listen to Becky, and have her tell you what you should do, and then not beat yourself up too hard if it doesn’t make you the biggest best seller, because who knows. I’ve had to really think about why I’m doing this and manage my own expectations for it so that I am happy with how it’s going rather than upset with how it’s going. 

Action Steps

Becky: That helps. So at the end of every episode of the Book Marketing Action Podcast, we always like to leave our listeners with one or two action steps that they can take and implement this week. As you said, Lisa, this idea of, “what am I going to do today” that you have to ask yourself. And so I’m wondering if together we can co-create a couple of action steps based on our conversation, some things that people could do today. 

Tell your neighbors about your book.  I’m going to pull one out, Lisa, you talked about talking to your neighbors about your book. And I wonder if there are any authors listening today who live in a situation where they haven’t told their neighbors that they wrote a book. I’m gonna challenge you today, talk to someone who lives where you live, and if you haven’t ever told them about your book, tell them.

Lisa: I think that’s a great one. I like to say, mine’s a memoir, right, and so in my neighborhood, I would say, maybe half the women and a quarter of the men had read the book. So I go to a party, and I’ll be like, please don’t answer this, “Hey, when did you lose your virginity? Okay, so we’re even.” Everybody kind of knows these things. So probably your book isn’t quite as revealing as mine. So yeah, talk to your neighbor is a dang good idea because you never know who has a cousin who runs a bookstore, who has a cousin who is a professor, you don’t know, until you put it out there. 

And so I would add to that, two points: 

Sharing your message isn’t self-promotion. One is to find a reason to do it so you don’t feel like you’re self-promoting. Because self promotion doesn’t work, right? Self promotion doesn’t work for me. I can’t, as much as it feels, people may think I self-promote, it doesn’t work for me just to be promoting myself, right? I have a message I’m trying to share. Start sharing your message. You can hone in on it as you go. And then when you know that message, there are ways to get on lists for podcasts. People have podcasts, they reach out to you, or to reach out to other podcast owners. Find the next thing you want to do and find the way to get the list to find those people and just start spreading your message and seeing where it goes and honing your message as you go along. ResourcesClick here for Lisa Kohn’s author website. To learn more about Lisa Kohn’s consulting company, click here. Connect with Lisa Kohn on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.Watch Lisa’s interview on the Megyn Kelly Show, here. 

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The post Episode 55: Lisa Kohn’s Author Journey appeared first on Weaving Influence.

Lisa Kohn’s Author Journey

Photo by melpomen / 123rf.com

Click here to listen on your device and subscribe! 

Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. In this episode, we are joined by Lisa Kohn—award winning author, leadership consultant, and executive coach.

Today’s episode is part of a new series. The series is based on my book, which is scheduled to come from Berrett Koehler publishers in April 2022. So this is the first time ever on the podcast that I am going to announce that the book is coming. The book is called Reach: Creating Lasting Impact for your Book, Message, or Cause. Lisa Kohn is an author friend of mine, and I’m interviewing her for the purposes of talking about her in the book. So we decided that we would use our own approach, which is to repurpose content, and that we would record a podcast with Lisa so that you can learn from her now, so later, I can put some of her lessons into my book. And we have some other surprises along the way about how we want to repurpose our content in a way that will help our audiences the most. 

About Lisa Kohn

Becky: So Lisa, let’s start, and I would love for you to introduce our audience to you and talk about your work in the world and your books, as we get started.

Lisa: So yes, thank you for saying books. So as you know, my story starts broad and comes down narrow. I’ll start with the way I described my childhood is: the best seats I ever had at Madison Square Garden, Were at my mother’s wedding because my mom got married on July 1, 1982, with 2,075 other couples, because I grew up in a religious cult, a member of the Unification Church. On the other hand, the best cocaine I ever had was from my father’s friend, the judge. Yes, really a judge, I’ve been asked. 

And that was then, and now I am an author, award-winning author, leadership consultant, executive coach. I work with C-suite leaders in Fortune 50 companies and nonprofits, helping them be more thoughtful, more intentional, more present, and more authentic in their work and in their lives. So that’s me, the two sides, and the books reflect that. So a number of years ago, we put out our book, The Power of Thoughtful Leadership, which is truly, long story short, my life is saved many ways by daily readers. The Power of Thoughtful Leadership is basically a daily reader where you can find a topic and find a quick thought on how to stop and ground and be more intentional on how you show up. And then two and a half years ago, tomorrow, my memoir To the Moon and Back: A Childhood Under the Influence was published. So those are my two books that I have been pushing and riding the waves with for the last few years.

What was the journey of publishing your memoir?

Becky: Thank you so much, Lisa. Let’s talk specifically today, I’m really interested in diving into your book To the Moon and Back. Because when I first met you, you had a draft of that memoir, and it took a few years before you brought it to market. But I’m curious what aspirations fueled that and tell us a little bit about that journey to publishing your memoir.

Lisa: So I get asked many times why I did it. What was the reason? What fueled me to do it? And I hate to admit, I don’t know fully. So long story short, I crashed and burned in the mid, almost late 80s, and was engaged to someone who drank a hell of a lot and was just on the road to destruction, self destruction, and I crawled into a 12 step program called Al-Anon, saying, “tell me if he’s an alcoholic; there’s no way I’d ever be with an alcoholic.” First of all, there are a myriad of reasons why I would be; I grew up in a cult. I would tell my story, and people with their jaws would drop, right? As my brother says, when you run with like hundreds of people who tell all these incredible stories and you tell yours and everybody goes, “Wow,” you go, “Oh, there’s something there,” and everyone would say you should write a book. 

So fast forward. Still a long time ago, probably about 20 years or so, I decided to write, because I was a coach, I was gonna write a powerful, hopeful book, and I was gonna write a half memoir, half self-help. “Here’s what happened to me. Here’s how it messed me up. I got better, you can too.” I would get incredibly warm glowing rejections from agents, “amazing story,” “you’re actually a good writer,” “you’re not famous enough,” “where will they put you in Barnes and Noble.” Then in around 2009, an agent called me and said, “If you write a memoir, I’ll represent you”, to which I famously said, “Please excuse me, I don’t want to write another Glass Castle because I want to write a glimmer of hope.” And she said, “You should be so lucky as to write a Glass Castle.” And she’s right, because it’s an amazing book, but I wrote the memoir, and she didn’t take me on. Then there was a series of many years finding another agent that I then lost. Finally, I found my publisher directly. It’s an indie house in East Village where I grew up in New York City. I found her in 2016, and signed with her in 2017. The book came out in 2018. So you have more to your question than that, but that’s a long story. 

Now, I have reasons why I’ve spent the last two and a half years strongly promoting the book, and even bringing the book very clearly into the work I do with leaders and bringing my past into it. But I did it, because someone said it was a good idea. And one of the scars of my childhood is that if you put something in front of me, I will do it. I will do it no matter what. I will do it till I die, even if I die, I will get it done. I was persistent and got amazing rejections for a really long time and never gave up. Now the book is out there making a difference in the world, which is why I care about it. So where do you want me go further with that question?

What are your greatest hopes for your book?

Becky: Sure, I’d love to hear what your greatest hopes for the book are. So now that it’s here, you mentioned that you’ve been marketing it for two and a half years. What is it that you want this book to do? What are your hopes for it?

Lisa: So the week it came out, it came out on Tuesday, and that Thursday morning, I was on Megyn Kelly back when there was a Megyn Kelly show. And that Thursday evening, I had a book reading in my hometown where I live in Pennsylvania, outside of Philly. And in the afternoon, I was sitting on my side porch, and my next door neighbor said, “Hey, what’s going on today?” And I said, “Funny, you should ask, I was on national television this morning.” And I told him the story because nobody really knew. I always kept it quiet. And within weeks, his wife emailed me and she said, “thank you for giving us all the courage to tell our childhood stories,” and that’s why I do it. 

So I have three messages. My three main messages are that extremist situations exist, they are really prevalent, they are all over. They’re highly intoxicating. It is the best drug ever to have a Messiah, and they’re very dangerous. Message two: for anyone who feels hopeless or damaged beyond repair, there is hope and you are not damaged. I realized when the book came out, I still thought I was damaged. I have them, I have scars. I’m not damaged. It’s a very different perspective. And the third that I know from my own life, from my work as an executive coach, is that as a species, we are way too hard on ourselves. We’re self-critical and self-judging and we just need a huge dose of self-love, and self-compassion. 

So my hope for the book is that it will spread these messages that will reach the people who have been in or grown up in extreme situations, and those who’ve had any sort of situation, and help them realize that the shame they’re holding is not theirs to keep. They don’t need to be in shame and they can truly let it go. I’m still trying to let mine go, but I’m daily letting it go. As I said to someone just the other day, if I’ve only reached the thousands, maybe tens of thousands, I’ve reached with the book and with the message, then that’s enough, because I am lucky to be happy, right? And I just want to spread that message of hope and love, self-compassion and self-love, to as many people as I possibly can, which I also do in my work. I like to say I’m the executive coach who talks about love in the C-suite, right? But now that books out and you Google me, you know my story. So I will tell everybody, I grew up in a cult. Yep, I ended up in a 12 step program. And yes, you deserve to be happy and to take care of yourself. And let’s help you do that. So that’s why!

How do you feel looking back on being on national TV?

Becky: I love that. So Lisa, you mentioned being on the Megyn Kelly show, and I watched that clip, it was amazing. And that’s obviously national TV. A big platform is a huge one for any author. So I’m curious if you would share with us briefly about what that achieved for you or how you feel about it looking back now?

Lisa: You know, that’s a funny question. So when the book was coming out, I hired a branding firm to help me, not yours, but a different branding firm to help me do the cover of the book and stuff, and then I hired a publicist, because I was determined to do this. And they did get me on Megyn Kelly and it was a wonderful experience. I don’t know that it did very much for me other than let me be able to say I’m on Megyn Kelly and know that I could be on Megyn Kelly and be fine. Like literally you just talk to Megyn and talk to Megyn, and she got something completely wrong before the commercial break. And you can kind of tell because we went to commercial break and I said, “That’s not what happened.” So when we come back from commercial break, she starts to say something and she’s like “Well, maybe you should tell us the story,” because she realized she had no idea what the story was. But you think, “Megyn Kelly! Millions of people will buy my book!” No, no. You know, and my message was less honed then. I was just starting out, my message has truly developed as I’ve spoken somewhat endlessly about it over the last two and a half years. So I’m happy I did it. I got a lot of great publicity, probably the best thing I got was, I was in Marie Claire, and that went on Apple News for the weekend, which was really cool. 

So publicity is great. But publicity, sometimes it feels like it only got me the chance to say that I have publicity, right? Which can get me more publicity, but you never know. You never know where one, just the one right person is going to see it. There’s currently potentially a documentary on the church that I’m involved with, because the producer was looking for something and stumbled on my book. So you never know who you’re going to reach and when. 

What do you think has worked best for you for expanding the reach of this book?

Becky: So I love that you said that, Lisa, that you never know who you’re going to reach when. So could you talk a bit more about what you think has worked best for you and expanding the reach of this book.

Lisa: I honestly say the good thing about believing I have an important message is it means I asked just about anybody and everybody, if they know somewhere I can speak, somewhere I can do a reading, somewhere I can promote. So I just keep asking. I do think it’s those, that it just keeps going and beginning more and beginning more and beginning more. 

There’s the potential documentary. There’s something else maybe going to happen that’s really cool. And if it does, we’ll probably help it push really high. But it’s just asking this person and asking this person. And I guess guest blog posts in places, and I speak just about anywhere, I just keep going. I do as many podcasts as possible, whenever someone reaches out if it makes sense, I’ll do it. Because on one hand, it will help it take off, and on the other hand, if I reach that one person who’s in pain, then that’s why I’m really doing it, right? It’s the emails and the Twitter direct messages and the Instagram messages. It’s those things I get that blow my mind from strangers that keep me just going. I wish I had a plan other than try this, try that, and try this and try that, and try and try and try and try, and keep asking people who they know who’d want to help me spread the message.

Becky: I think you hit on something really important, Lisa. You have to keep going.

Lisa: It’s not even a marathon. It’s like a triathlon and I can’t swim. So it’s a hard triathlon, right? It’s constantly reaching my leadership consulting business, right? And the book, there’s always at least a couple hundred things, I should be doing more, right? There’s always more, there’s always another. So it’s this combination of, what do I want to do today? What am I going to do this week? What am I going to do? And then also, when am I going to stop? When am I going to practice what I preach? When am I going to take care of myself? Because I could work nonstop and never get it all done. But each week there’s one more email I send or person I ask or place I can speak. I literally ran into a neighbor and was like, “Oh, I didn’t know your husband was the pastor of the church. What do you want me to talk to anybody about extreme religions?” Right? Because I’m able to say it’s not about me. Yes, I’d love to sell millions of books. Yes, I want to be in the New York Times bestseller, but one because it’s fun, but mostly because I want people to hear the message. So it allows me to just keep asking and just keep going and take some time off and then pick it up and do a couple more things.

What is your attitude towards fame and fortune?

Becky: Love it. So you alluded a bit to it, but I’m wondering if you would tell me what your attitude toward fame and fortune is?

Lisa: My attitude towards fame and fortune. If I’m lucky enough to get it, I’ll probably wonder why I wanted it. Right? If I was really famous, right? Because I know that it does a whole warpy thing to one’s life. If the documentary and a couple other things actually happen, it could be really fun. And I’m just determined to have fun with it. And again, I go back to the message I want to share is so important to me, that fame and fortune is a way to share that message. So I know that the world doesn’t need me to share it, but I can be one more person who can share it, right? And if I can get famous enough that my story is big enough that other people can be in their situation and know that they have hope, then it’s all worth it. If something interesting happens, I might make the money I’ve spent on the book, I may never make the money back I spent on the book, but I did it. I did it for a reason. I did it for all of those who were called second gens or third or fourth, like those of us born and raised in extremist situations. I did it for all of them. I did it for anyone who’s stuck in an extremist situation. I did it for anyone who has this dysfunction in their family and in their childhood and in their current family and is in pain and suffering. That’s why I did it. So I’m determined to have fun with whatever happens. But I’m also out here to hopefully have one more person reach out to me and say thank you, you really gave me hope.

What role has generosity played in your journey?

Becky: So Lisa, tell me what role generosity has played on your journey.

Lisa: Well, I probably am very generous with the book itself. Actually, I’m keynoting for a not for profit, annual luncheon Women’s Resource Center here in Wayne in April. And I am obviously donating books to give away in the hopes that it makes more people sign up. If I meet someone in an extremist situation, or born and raised in an extremist situation, I will always give them the book for free, give them an electronic book or send them a copy of the book. So I tried to be generous. I try to be generous with my time. I try to be generous with my story. I will answer almost any question, as long as it’s not about the immediate family right now, I’ll answer any question. I will just bear any part of the weirdness inside me in order to help people, so I’m hoping I’m generous. And I clearly have gotten a lot of generosity. I have people introduce me to people. I have people open their homes to have me come and speak to their friends. I’ve had people sponsor things for events for me. I will do any book club. I will do anything and I’ve had people open themselves and invite their friends to come and hear it. So generosity has been given to me and I try to be generous as I keep going. 

What is a book Fairy?

Becky: I’m trying to remember back before COVID stopped most air travel. I remember that you had this approach of leaving books in airports. Talk about that.

Lisa: It’s called book fairies. I believe it originated in Scotland. It’s still going, they’re doing it in a different way. But it’s a worldwide initiative where authors will leave their books and other books, called book fairies. And it’s like, leave a book, enjoy the book, pass it on. And it’s just the idea to spread the message of your book and other books and get people reading again. The book fairies, it’s great, and they are still going in some ways. Clearly, it’s shut down a lot since COVID, and hopefully it will pick back up a lot when things open up again. But yeah, it was fun. I had friends who I gave eight of my books, and I’m like, “leave them every time you’re anywhere”, and then they would leave them and then post it. And I did it so many times. The first time the person reached out to me, and then they left it that next day, and that person reached out to me. And most of the other times I didn’t hear from anybody, but you never know. You never know who’s gonna read it. You never know who’s going to read it, who’s going to pick it up or pass it on or whatever. So yeah, it’s just another way to spread the love.

Is there anything you’ve learned about book marketing you wish I had asked you about?

Becky: So Lisa, is there anything else that you’ve learned about book marketing that you wish I had asked you about?

Lisa: It feels daunting, right? You’re probably going to say there are specific things one should do and, and there are, but I always say it feels like there’s always more that I could be doing. And there must be a secret sauce that I haven’t figured out yet. 

But I don’t know that that’s actually true. And so for me, it’s just one day at a time. One more thing. One more thing. Do I need to sign up for this class? It tells me exactly how to do it. Maybe, maybe not. There’s always more. That’s not supposed to be the answer I’m supposed to give. But it’s this combination of, what do I want to do today? Why am I doing this? When do I need to take a break? And what’s one more thing I can do? I was told I’d be lucky if I sold 200 books. I’ve sold a lot more than 200 books. They say nonfiction books sell about 200 on average from an unknown author. So that is what it is. Always be willing to look one more place, talk to one more person, ask for one more idea, listen to Becky, and have her tell you what you should do, and then not beat yourself up too hard if it doesn’t make you the biggest best seller, because who knows. I’ve had to really think about why I’m doing this and manage my own expectations for it so that I am happy with how it’s going rather than upset with how it’s going. 

Action Steps

Becky: That helps. So at the end of every episode of the Book Marketing Action Podcast, we always like to leave our listeners with one or two action steps that they can take and implement this week. As you said, Lisa, this idea of, “what am I going to do today” that you have to ask yourself. And so I’m wondering if together we can co-create a couple of action steps based on our conversation, some things that people could do today. 

Tell your neighbors about your book.  I’m going to pull one out, Lisa, you talked about talking to your neighbors about your book. And I wonder if there are any authors listening today who live in a situation where they haven’t told their neighbors that they wrote a book. I’m gonna challenge you today, talk to someone who lives where you live, and if you haven’t ever told them about your book, tell them.

Lisa: I think that’s a great one. I like to say, mine’s a memoir, right, and so in my neighborhood, I would say, maybe half the women and a quarter of the men had read the book. So I go to a party, and I’ll be like, please don’t answer this, “Hey, when did you lose your virginity? Okay, so we’re even.” Everybody kind of knows these things. So probably your book isn’t quite as revealing as mine. So yeah, talk to your neighbor is a dang good idea because you never know who has a cousin who runs a bookstore, who has a cousin who is a professor, you don’t know, until you put it out there. 

And so I would add to that, two points: 

Sharing your message isn’t self-promotion. One is to find a reason to do it so you don’t feel like you’re self-promoting. Because self promotion doesn’t work, right? Self promotion doesn’t work for me. I can’t, as much as it feels, people may think I self-promote, it doesn’t work for me just to be promoting myself, right? I have a message I’m trying to share. Start sharing your message. You can hone in on it as you go. And then when you know that message, there are ways to get on lists for podcasts. People have podcasts, they reach out to you, or to reach out to other podcast owners. Find the next thing you want to do and find the way to get the list to find those people and just start spreading your message and seeing where it goes and honing your message as you go along. ResourcesClick here for Lisa Kohn’s author website. To learn more about Lisa Kohn’s consulting company, click here. Connect with Lisa Kohn on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.Watch Lisa’s interview on the Megyn Kelly Show, here. 

If you found value in today’s episode, we hope you’ll take a moment to share it with someone else who might benefit from it. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to cover, please email Becky Robinson here.

Click here for our free resources. 

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review. 

Click here to tweet about this episode!

The post Lisa Kohn’s Author Journey appeared first on Weaving Influence.

Episode 54: Best Practices to Secure Media Wins Copy

Photo by Pavlo Syvak  / 123rf.com

Click here to listen on your device and subscribe! 

Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. In this episode, we are joined by Mark Fortier—founder and president of Fortier Public Relations and 2019 Porchlight Jack Covert Award for Contribution to the Business Book Industry​.

About Mark Fortier

Becky: I’ve heard about Mark for a really long time because he’s among the top names in the New York publicity world as it relates to business books, and only had the chance to meet him for the first time this year. I’m really glad to have you on the show today, Mark, and as we dive into our conversation today, I hope you’ll take a moment to tell our listeners about yourself and about your work in the world.

Mark: Well, I often get asked what I do for a living, and to insiders in publishing, they’re often like, “Wow, you work with all my heroes.” And when I talk to people outside of publishing, they often need a long explanation of what I do. So to try to make it as simple as possible. You can say I am a book publicist, and particularly often with business books. I run a PR agency called Fortier Public Relations for 25 people based in Manhattan, and we try to have a multi-channel approach to promoting books. 

Most people, when they think of a PR agency, they think of media placements, and that’s definitely the core of what we do and one of our specialties, but we also try to look at ourselves as partners in success for a book in all possible ways. These days, there are lots of channels that can help a book succeed. So there are podcasts, full-time podcast bookers, there are events, we have an events manager who sets up events. We help coach people on their social media strategy, tapping their network, which is incredibly important for authors, and being their coach in all ways. So basically, you can think of ourselves as, if you want your book to succeed, we’re there as your guide and your coach, and the ones who try to make a book happen and make a big splash in the media, social media, and anywhere else that people look for books.

Becky: That’s helpful. So Mark, you mentioned that people who are aware of business books are saying that you serve their heroes. I’m going to give you a chance to shout out some of the big name authors you’ve had the chance to support, because I know you’ve supported multiple New York Times bestsellers, Wall Street Journal bestsellers, so go ahead and brag for a minute about your client list.

Mark: Okay, sure. Let’s see, so we’ve worked on over 135 bestsellers. We’ve done 18 number one bestsellers on, there’s a ranking of the Thinkers50 list of the top thought leaders in the world, and we work with 33 out of the 50. Some of them include Tim Ferriss and Seth Godin. We worked with several government officials from Robert Rubin, the former treasury secretary, and we’ve got a book coming out with Henry Kissinger later this fall. So a wide range of authors, from some of the most commercial best selling authors to business school professors. We’ve worked with 22 Fortune 500 CEOs. This next month, we’ve got the CEO of Best Buy coming up as part of our next CEO books, and we worked with the CEOs of Starbuck, Citigroup, and Southwest Airlines. Let’s see, Dunkin Donuts and all kinds of things. So it’s funny how in this niche of business books, there’s actually an incredible amount of breadth, and the types of authors and the types of topics they get into. We like to feel like we’re connectors of ideas that have impact in the business world. So to me, it’s the most exciting part of business to be in.

What are media outlets looking for when they visit an author’s website?

Becky: Very cool. And we’ll definitely include a link to your website in the show notes so people can take a look at it to see more. So we’ve been focusing this month, Mark, on author websites, and especially as it relates to this world of media relations. I’m wondering, from your point of view, what media outlets are looking for when they land on or visit an author’s website?

Mark: Yeah, great question. So they’re certainly looking for credibility and credentials. I see a lot of different styles for author bios, and it could be that different things appeal to consumers as opposed to media. But I find that sometimes authors have a very anecdotal bio, that ‘here’s what I’m about and I’m into this and I’m into that,’ and a journalist wants to just zoom in and see, what’s the credential. If I’m quoting them in a piece, what do I call them? A lot of times, that can be fuzzy. So if someone’s CEO of a company, that’s super clear. If they’re a business school professor at Harvard Business School, that’s super clear. If they’re a writer, and they have a podcast, and maybe they’re a leadership coach, and they do some consulting, and there’s five things in their bio, those are all great things to have in the bio, but the journalist is probably only going to pick one. So it’s really important to have that sequence of things in your bio and leading with, if I could only choose one name for what I am and what I do, what would that be? And preferably in very simple, concrete terms. There’s often a press page or media page on a website and that can often have two different things. 

It’s great to show your most impressive media you might have been in already, even if that’s just a little quote, in whether it’s The New York Times or Fast Company, or whatever it might be. That’s definitely worth bragging about. Sometimes you’ll see the brand. So you’ll see a logo for Fast Company, click here, just to read the full story. And the brands are almost more important than the stories. People don’t spend a lot of time on websites. So you want to have it tailored to quick attention spans. So they’re going to be more impressed to open up a page and see, “Wow, Fast Company, there’s NBC, there’s all these media outlets.” They’re probably not going to click on it to read the whole story, so it’s the brands that really matter. And then it’s helpful to have tools for the media. So one thing I love is an office of downloadable photos. There is always a scramble of a journalist wanting to do a story on an author and either they’ve set up the interview, or maybe they just want to write it even without talking to the interviewee and they need to run the photo with the story and their own deadline. There’s just always a scrambled back and forth of where to find this photo. Who has the photo? If you have it all there, they’re easy to download themselves. And it’s often great to have a selection of photos, like we’ve all seen the standard headshot for authors, which is definitely most important to have and have it in color, standard headshot, but some of them like to have alternatives. So a full length body shot, sometimes a formal one, sometimes an informal one, maybe a horizontal one gives that graphic designer a few options to work with. 

So I’d say the most important things are the bio, downloadable photos, and brag about any media you’ve gotten. And I would think about the sequencing too. Sometimes people put the sequence of their most recent coverage in the media. I think it’s better to lead with the most impressive. So if you recently did some blog or journal, but you did New York Times 10 years ago, still put New York Times first.

 How important is a press kit for an author?

Becky: That’s super helpful. So what about the idea of a press kit? How important is a press kit for an author? And what should that press kit include?

Mark: Yeah, so that’s definitely something that’s changed a lot. So press kits are still done. They still should be done. The world has gotten more digital, and during the pandemic even more digital. So typically, a press kit is printed and mailed with the physical book to the journalists that you’re trying to get to cover the book. During the pandemic, in particular, we’re mostly emailing PDFs and electronic galleys to the media. So they’re getting an attachment of a press kit, and they’re probably less likely to look at it. So press kits are still good to do and we can go over what should be in it, but I almost think that the pitch is the most important element of all. And sometimes the press release or the press kit gets over emphasized. 

The main thing you’re trying to do is fight for the attention span of the media that you’re sending to. And that’s probably going to be an email that’s in their box, along with 500 other people pitching their books and their topic to that same person. So your goal is to interest. So think less about, “Oh, I’m trying to announce my book with this formal announcement. To write a book report about it.” But nope you have one goal. Your one goal is to interest this recipient ,this journalist, in as fast a way as possible and they would way prefer less is more. 

So grab their attention with a fantastic headline, think of what’s the one sentence in the body of your pitch that’s going to just completely boil down what this book is about, why it’s significant, and why it’s newsworthy, new, or different? So that’s really your most important goal. I would spend the most time on that, even though it’s the shortest. If you can also do a press kit, the press release tends to be more of a summary about the book and the full contents. And then we always do a full page bio, as well as a short bio, that gives journalists a choice of “Okay, when in a flash, I can see what this person’s credentials are, who they are, and if I’m writing a profile, here’s a lot more color, their full story that I can pull things out from.” 

Then last but not least, is what we call the author Q&A. So for all of our book press kits, we will think hard about, if we were a journalist, what’s the ideal story and interview that we would do with the author? And we think very hard about what’s the first question? What should be the last question? Isn’t just a jumble of questions that pops into our head, but we have to think like a journalist. Okay, that reader, what’s gonna pull them in? They have no context about this book or who this person is, so how are we going to get that across clearly, and hold their interest, and then dig deep into the topic enough, and then pull out of it a conclusion that ties it all together? And the Q&A is a great exercise for lots of reasons. It’s a wonderful way to prepare for your media training. A lot of authors, they just wrote the book, they’re clearly a master at it. And they’re just wanting interviews and haven’t really thought about, “Oh, well, how do I sum this up into my key points? And what would my ideal interview be?” If you know what your most ideal interview is going to be like, then you actually do have a lot of control over where the journalist is going to go and the substance of your interview. 

What are the types of qualities you look for in an author who will have the opportunity to land the most desirable media wins?

Becky: Thanks, Mark. Well, I’d like to tap into your deep expertise of landing media wins. I know your team does a lot of pitching to major media outlets. So what are the types of qualities that you look for in an author or a client who will have the opportunity to land the most desirable media you talked about? Impressive media brands like The New York Times or Fast Company or The Today Show? So what does it take for an author to be able to win media at that level?

Mark: Yeah, so we work with a lot of famous authors and we also work with a lot of first time authors who’ve really not much profile yet, but they have a fantastic topic that we really believe in, and that has potential. So I think sometimes authors are intimidated and think, “Oh, I’m not famous yet. I’m not a big name, so no one’s gonna pay any attention.” They very well can if you’ve got a great topic. If you deliver it well. If you give great sound bites. 

What is the most surprising or exciting media win you’ve landed?

Becky: So this might be a weird question, but as I’m listening to you, I’m wondering if you have any stories of the most surprising media wins you’ve landed, or the most exciting ones that you’d be willing to share with our listeners?

Mark: Oh, let’s see. Well, I guess I’ve told this story for so long that it just sticks to the brain as always a good, instructive story. 

So the first book I worked on when I founded the firm was Made to Stick: Why Some Ideas Survive and Others Die by Chip and Dan Heath. And I got The Today Show. I got CNBC. With the CNBC stories, it is very instructive, so I sent the book to my contact there. We had this great long conversation. She said, “Oh my god, this is the best book I’ve read in ages. I love it.” So I’m like, “Great. When can we book it?” She said, “Of course not, Mark. You know better than that. We’re a news network. So we can’t put an author on to just talk about their book and the topic. We need a news angle.” So a week or two went by, and it was coming out around January/February and so the Superbowl was coming up. So I pitched her, well, how about you have the authors on to talk about the stickiest Superbowl ads? And boom, the producer loved it! It gave me the angle that she needed and she put the authors on and we illustrated the whole segment. 

It shows how important getting an angle is for the media. There’s a big difference between being topical and having a hard news angle. So, for example, right now we are talking in the hopefully close-to-end of the pandemic, so right now things like the hybrid workforce is a topical angle. It’s something that people are talking about, and you can get certain types of media with that. But there are other angles that are day-of news. So a week or two ago, there was a news story that Goldman Sachs was, because of burnout, giving Saturdays off to their employees, and that was a new story that hit that day of the announcement and got all this kind of buzz all over the place. So, of course, we jumped on that with our workplace authors as a hard news day-of news peg. And there’s some media, particularly the broadcast news networks like CBC, Fox Business, or Bloomberg, where they really need that day-of news peg.

Becky: So Mark, were you able to land any media connected to that story that you just referenced?

Mark: We’ve had a number. So yeah, we have an author writing on the book, while being at work. So we got some placements for that. We have a book coming up called Digital Body Language, which we have been playing off of the hybrid workforce angle, which as I said, that can open up some types of media, like print. We just got today, an Entrepreneur Magazine story on that, tied to the hybrid workforce. So yeah, we have several processes that we’re always running at the same time. So we’re pitching the book, and looking out for books. We’re watching the news every morning and trying to look at the news through the lens of our books messages and look for angles. So we’re always trying multiple approaches at the same time. 

And if there is a news angle, our process usually is, you might spot it first, email it to our author. We ask them, “what’s your take on this news angle?” And then have some good back and forth between us. Because it’s good to tell CNBC, “Yes, I’ve got an author who can address what just happened today in the news.” It’s better if you can say, “I have an author who can address what happened on the news today, and here is her take on that story. Her opinion is x.” And then they might think, “Ooh, that’s a very surprising opinion, I wouldn’t have expected,” or “We’re having another person on who has the opposite point of view, wouldn’t that make a fantastic segment.” So really getting the author’s take on a news story is super important, and then once we have that we might work with them to draft an op ed, because you have to pounce on those fast and to pitch interviews at the same time.

Becky: Thank you so much for sharing your amazing insights with us today, Mark. I could ask you questions all afternoon. 

Action Steps

Becky: We want to make sure that we do two things as we wrap up this episode, one is we want to let folks know how to find out more about you and your work. And then we also want to leave them with a couple of action steps. So ideas that they can implement today in growing the reach of their books. 

Mark: Yeah, there’s a lot that authors can do on their own to promote new books. 

Write bylined articles or op eds. You can either do that immediately on LinkedIn or Medium. One trick is to Google the name of the outlet you want, and then “contributor guidelines,” and usually you put that combo together and it comes up with some directions of “we accept authors to write op eds, and we want 600 words, we love bullets,or we hate bullets,” and all the guidelines you’d ever need. Then you can pitch them directly. Watch the news. I also recommend as we were talking about the news, you can absolutely do that tracking the news yourself. Very often media will like peer-to-peer contact with an author, either on Twitter or LinkedIn, or just tracking down their email address. Some of those are public information that you can look up and find yourself and they’ll appreciate it if you’re an expert, and especially if, let’s say, you’re complimenting them on an article that they wrote and saying I actually did some research on that, and here’s a finding that you might find of interest with a different angle if you cover this angle in a different way, next week. Subscribe to a free service. There are also services that you can subscribe to for free. A great one is HARO. Another one is Qwoted and it’s basically a message board where hundreds of journalists every day will say, “I’m writing a story on this topic, I’m looking for an expert to interview or quote.” They might need a particular type of credential and you can just directly apply and just really follow the instructions carefully. Write the answers in the email and don’t stray from the guidelines. Do what they asked for and nothing more. Check out a podcast service. There are also podcast services now, which might land smaller podcasts. But there are a lot of podcasts that are on some of these subscription services for a very inexpensive fee. You can subscribe, and similar to HARO, you can do a posting on here’s my topic, I’m an expert on this, and then you’ll get some podcast bookings out of it. So there’s lots of things that you can do on your own.ResourcesLearn more about Mark Fortier and the work he does in the world, here. Connect with Mark on Twitter and LinkedIn. Connect with Fortier Public Relations on LinkedIn. 

If you found value in today’s episode, we hope you’ll take a moment to share it with someone else who might benefit from it. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to cover, please email Becky Robinson here.

Click here for our free resources. 

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review. 

Click here to tweet about this episode!

The post Episode 54: Best Practices to Secure Media Wins Copy appeared first on Weaving Influence.

Episode 54: Best Practices to Secure Media Wins

Photo by Pavlo Syvak  / 123rf.com

Click here to listen on your device and subscribe! 

Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. In this episode, we are joined by Mark Fortier—founder and president of Fortier Public Relations and 2019 Porchlight Jack Covert Award for Contribution to the Business Book Industry​.

About Mark Fortier

Becky: I’ve heard about Mark for a really long time because he’s among the top names in the New York publicity world as it relates to business books, and only had the chance to meet him for the first time this year. I’m really glad to have you on the show today, Mark, and as we dive into our conversation today, I hope you’ll take a moment to tell our listeners about yourself and about your work in the world.

Mark: Well, I often get asked what I do for a living, and to insiders in publishing, they’re often like, “Wow, you work with all my heroes.” And when I talk to people outside of publishing, they often need a long explanation of what I do. So to try to make it as simple as possible. You can say I am a book publicist, and particularly often with business books. I run a PR agency called Fortier Public Relations for 25 people based in Manhattan, and we try to have a multi-channel approach to promoting books. 

Most people, when they think of a PR agency, they think of media placements, and that’s definitely the core of what we do and one of our specialties, but we also try to look at ourselves as partners in success for a book in all possible ways. These days, there are lots of channels that can help a book succeed. So there are podcasts, full-time podcast bookers, there are events, we have an events manager who sets up events. We help coach people on their social media strategy, tapping their network, which is incredibly important for authors, and being their coach in all ways. So basically, you can think of ourselves as, if you want your book to succeed, we’re there as your guide and your coach, and the ones who try to make a book happen and make a big splash in the media, social media, and anywhere else that people look for books.

Becky: That’s helpful. So Mark, you mentioned that people who are aware of business books are saying that you serve their heroes. I’m going to give you a chance to shout out some of the big name authors you’ve had the chance to support, because I know you’ve supported multiple New York Times bestsellers, Wall Street Journal bestsellers, so go ahead and brag for a minute about your client list.

Mark: Okay, sure. Let’s see, so we’ve worked on over 135 bestsellers. We’ve done 18 number one bestsellers on, there’s a ranking of the Thinkers50 list of the top thought leaders in the world, and we work with 33 out of the 50. Some of them include Tim Ferriss and Seth Godin. We worked with several government officials from Robert Rubin, the former treasury secretary, and we’ve got a book coming out with Henry Kissinger later this fall. So a wide range of authors, from some of the most commercial best selling authors to business school professors. We’ve worked with 22 Fortune 500 CEOs. This next month, we’ve got the CEO of Best Buy coming up as part of our next CEO books, and we worked with the CEOs of Starbuck, Citigroup, and Southwest Airlines. Let’s see, Dunkin Donuts and all kinds of things. So it’s funny how in this niche of business books, there’s actually an incredible amount of breadth, and the types of authors and the types of topics they get into. We like to feel like we’re connectors of ideas that have impact in the business world. So to me, it’s the most exciting part of business to be in.

What are media outlets looking for when they visit an author’s website?

Becky: Very cool. And we’ll definitely include a link to your website in the show notes so people can take a look at it to see more. So we’ve been focusing this month, Mark, on author websites, and especially as it relates to this world of media relations. I’m wondering, from your point of view, what media outlets are looking for when they land on or visit an author’s website?

Mark: Yeah, great question. So they’re certainly looking for credibility and credentials. I see a lot of different styles for author bios, and it could be that different things appeal to consumers as opposed to media. But I find that sometimes authors have a very anecdotal bio, that ‘here’s what I’m about and I’m into this and I’m into that,’ and a journalist wants to just zoom in and see, what’s the credential. If I’m quoting them in a piece, what do I call them? A lot of times, that can be fuzzy. So if someone’s CEO of a company, that’s super clear. If they’re a business school professor at Harvard Business School, that’s super clear. If they’re a writer, and they have a podcast, and maybe they’re a leadership coach, and they do some consulting, and there’s five things in their bio, those are all great things to have in the bio, but the journalist is probably only going to pick one. So it’s really important to have that sequence of things in your bio and leading with, if I could only choose one name for what I am and what I do, what would that be? And preferably in very simple, concrete terms. There’s often a press page or media page on a website and that can often have two different things. 

It’s great to show your most impressive media you might have been in already, even if that’s just a little quote, in whether it’s The New York Times or Fast Company, or whatever it might be. That’s definitely worth bragging about. Sometimes you’ll see the brand. So you’ll see a logo for Fast Company, click here, just to read the full story. And the brands are almost more important than the stories. People don’t spend a lot of time on websites. So you want to have it tailored to quick attention spans. So they’re going to be more impressed to open up a page and see, “Wow, Fast Company, there’s NBC, there’s all these media outlets.” They’re probably not going to click on it to read the whole story, so it’s the brands that really matter. And then it’s helpful to have tools for the media. So one thing I love is an office of downloadable photos. There is always a scramble of a journalist wanting to do a story on an author and either they’ve set up the interview, or maybe they just want to write it even without talking to the interviewee and they need to run the photo with the story and their own deadline. There’s just always a scrambled back and forth of where to find this photo. Who has the photo? If you have it all there, they’re easy to download themselves. And it’s often great to have a selection of photos, like we’ve all seen the standard headshot for authors, which is definitely most important to have and have it in color, standard headshot, but some of them like to have alternatives. So a full length body shot, sometimes a formal one, sometimes an informal one, maybe a horizontal one gives that graphic designer a few options to work with. 

So I’d say the most important things are the bio, downloadable photos, and brag about any media you’ve gotten. And I would think about the sequencing too. Sometimes people put the sequence of their most recent coverage in the media. I think it’s better to lead with the most impressive. So if you recently did some blog or journal, but you did New York Times 10 years ago, still put New York Times first.

 How important is a press kit for an author?

Becky: That’s super helpful. So what about the idea of a press kit? How important is a press kit for an author? And what should that press kit include?

Mark: Yeah, so that’s definitely something that’s changed a lot. So press kits are still done. They still should be done. The world has gotten more digital, and during the pandemic even more digital. So typically, a press kit is printed and mailed with the physical book to the journalists that you’re trying to get to cover the book. During the pandemic, in particular, we’re mostly emailing PDFs and electronic galleys to the media. So they’re getting an attachment of a press kit, and they’re probably less likely to look at it. So press kits are still good to do and we can go over what should be in it, but I almost think that the pitch is the most important element of all. And sometimes the press release or the press kit gets over emphasized. 

The main thing you’re trying to do is fight for the attention span of the media that you’re sending to. And that’s probably going to be an email that’s in their box, along with 500 other people pitching their books and their topic to that same person. So your goal is to interest. So think less about, “Oh, I’m trying to announce my book with this formal announcement. To write a book report about it.” But nope you have one goal. Your one goal is to interest this recipient ,this journalist, in as fast a way as possible and they would way prefer less is more. 

So grab their attention with a fantastic headline, think of what’s the one sentence in the body of your pitch that’s going to just completely boil down what this book is about, why it’s significant, and why it’s newsworthy, new, or different? So that’s really your most important goal. I would spend the most time on that, even though it’s the shortest. If you can also do a press kit, the press release tends to be more of a summary about the book and the full contents. And then we always do a full page bio, as well as a short bio, that gives journalists a choice of “Okay, when in a flash, I can see what this person’s credentials are, who they are, and if I’m writing a profile, here’s a lot more color, their full story that I can pull things out from.” 

Then last but not least, is what we call the author Q&A. So for all of our book press kits, we will think hard about, if we were a journalist, what’s the ideal story and interview that we would do with the author? And we think very hard about what’s the first question? What should be the last question? Isn’t just a jumble of questions that pops into our head, but we have to think like a journalist. Okay, that reader, what’s gonna pull them in? They have no context about this book or who this person is, so how are we going to get that across clearly, and hold their interest, and then dig deep into the topic enough, and then pull out of it a conclusion that ties it all together? And the Q&A is a great exercise for lots of reasons. It’s a wonderful way to prepare for your media training. A lot of authors, they just wrote the book, they’re clearly a master at it. And they’re just wanting interviews and haven’t really thought about, “Oh, well, how do I sum this up into my key points? And what would my ideal interview be?” If you know what your most ideal interview is going to be like, then you actually do have a lot of control over where the journalist is going to go and the substance of your interview. 

What are the types of qualities you look for in an author who will have the opportunity to land the most desirable media wins?

Becky: Thanks, Mark. Well, I’d like to tap into your deep expertise of landing media wins. I know your team does a lot of pitching to major media outlets. So what are the types of qualities that you look for in an author or a client who will have the opportunity to land the most desirable media you talked about? Impressive media brands like The New York Times or Fast Company or The Today Show? So what does it take for an author to be able to win media at that level?

Mark: Yeah, so we work with a lot of famous authors and we also work with a lot of first time authors who’ve really not much profile yet, but they have a fantastic topic that we really believe in, and that has potential. So I think sometimes authors are intimidated and think, “Oh, I’m not famous yet. I’m not a big name, so no one’s gonna pay any attention.” They very well can if you’ve got a great topic. If you deliver it well. If you give great sound bites. 

Becky: How do people land the big media if they’re just starting out? Do you coach people that they have to get lower level media first and then work up to the bigger media?

Mark: Let’s see, I don’t necessarily think that is true. And I think sometimes the media actually likes you to be fresh and undiscovered. And so if they look you up, and they see that, “Oh, this person has been covered before, but it’s all lots of little stuff,” I think that could be a turnoff. I think if you’ve got some good credentials and a great idea, they’d actually rather you be fresh. So there are different opinions about that. 

A lot of people do what they call, author profile building. I do think it is good to play some op eds, to be searchable and have things come up, but I would have brand control. So, if you’re in lots of little stuff then the big guys might think you’re in the little guy lane and not the big guy lane. Publishers do matter to the media. So authors who self publish or with smaller publishers, absolutely can have very successful books, and they can have very successful marketing. The media tends to shy away, especially from the self published books. They do tend to rely on publishers as gatekeepers. There are already far more choices than they could possibly choose from amongst the top publishers, so it’s rare for them to be on that. There’s absolutely exceptions to that and I don’t want to dissuade anyone from trying to get media, but it is harder. When you’re making those choices, I would think about how important is media to you? Would you be disappointed if you maybe had a book that sold well, but didn’t get media? And really all the goals are up to you. They’re all subjective goals. There’s no right answer about what makes a book successful. To some people, it’s the sales, that’s the barometer of success. To some people, they couldn’t care less how many books they sell, and it’s more about, “Am I getting recognized by the top influencers and top media,” and there’s other goals and choices too. It’s really up to you to make that choice. 

What is the most surprising or exciting media win you’ve landed?

Becky: So this might be a weird question, but as I’m listening to you, I’m wondering if you have any stories of the most surprising media wins you’ve landed, or the most exciting ones that you’d be willing to share with our listeners?

Mark: Oh, let’s see. Well, I guess I’ve told this story for so long that it just sticks to the brain as always a good, instructive story. 

So the first book I worked on when I founded the firm was Made to Stick: Why Some Ideas Survive and Others Die by Chip and Dan Heath. And I got The Today Show. I got CNBC. With the CNBC stories, it is very instructive, so I sent the book to my contact there. We had this great long conversation. She said, “Oh my god, this is the best book I’ve read in ages. I love it.” So I’m like, “Great. When can we book it?” She said, “Of course not, Mark. You know better than that. We’re a news network. So we can’t put an author on to just talk about their book and the topic. We need a news angle.” So a week or two went by, and it was coming out around January/February and so the Superbowl was coming up. So I pitched her, well, how about you have the authors on to talk about the stickiest Superbowl ads? And boom, the producer loved it! It gave me the angle that she needed and she put the authors on and we illustrated the whole segment. 

It shows how important getting an angle is for the media. There’s a big difference between being topical and having a hard news angle. So, for example, right now we are talking in the hopefully close-to-end of the pandemic, so right now things like the hybrid workforce is a topical angle. It’s something that people are talking about, and you can get certain types of media with that. But there are other angles that are day-of news. So a week or two ago, there was a news story that Goldman Sachs was, because of burnout, giving Saturdays off to their employees, and that was a new story that hit that day of the announcement and got all this kind of buzz all over the place. So, of course, we jumped on that with our workplace authors as a hard news day-of news peg. And there’s some media, particularly the broadcast news networks like CBC, Fox Business, or Bloomberg, where they really need that day-of news peg.

Becky: So Mark, were you able to land any media connected to that story that you just referenced?

Mark: We’ve had a number. So yeah, we have an author writing on the book, while being at work. So we got some placements for that. We have a book coming up called Digital Body Language, which we have been playing off of the hybrid workforce angle, which as I said, that can open up some types of media, like print. We just got today, an Entrepreneur Magazine story on that, tied to the hybrid workforce. So yeah, we have several processes that we’re always running at the same time. So we’re pitching the book, and looking out for books. We’re watching the news every morning and trying to look at the news through the lens of our books messages and look for angles. So we’re always trying multiple approaches at the same time. 

And if there is a news angle, our process usually is, you might spot it first, email it to our author. We ask them, “what’s your take on this news angle?” And then have some good back and forth between us. Because it’s good to tell CNBC, “Yes, I’ve got an author who can address what just happened today in the news.” It’s better if you can say, “I have an author who can address what happened on the news today, and here is her take on that story. Her opinion is x.” And then they might think, “Ooh, that’s a very surprising opinion, I wouldn’t have expected,” or “We’re having another person on who has the opposite point of view, wouldn’t that make a fantastic segment.” So really getting the author’s take on a news story is super important, and then once we have that we might work with them to draft an op ed, because you have to pounce on those fast and to pitch interviews at the same time.

Becky: Thank you so much for sharing your amazing insights with us today, Mark. I could ask you questions all afternoon. 

Action Steps

Becky: We want to make sure that we do two things as we wrap up this episode, one is we want to let folks know how to find out more about you and your work. And then we also want to leave them with a couple of action steps. So ideas that they can implement today in growing the reach of their books. 

Mark: Yeah, there’s a lot that authors can do on their own to promote new books. 

Write bylined articles or op eds. You can either do that immediately on LinkedIn or Medium. One trick is to Google the name of the outlet you want, and then “contributor guidelines,” and usually you put that combo together and it comes up with some directions of “we accept authors to write op eds, and we want 600 words, we love bullets,or we hate bullets,” and all the guidelines you’d ever need. Then you can pitch them directly. Watch the news. I also recommend as we were talking about the news, you can absolutely do that tracking the news yourself. Very often media will like peer-to-peer contact with an author, either on Twitter or LinkedIn, or just tracking down their email address. Some of those are public information that you can look up and find yourself and they’ll appreciate it if you’re an expert, and especially if, let’s say, you’re complimenting them on an article that they wrote and saying I actually did some research on that, and here’s a finding that you might find of interest with a different angle if you cover this angle in a different way, next week. Subscribe to a free service. There are also services that you can subscribe to for free. A great one is HARO. Another one is Qwoted and it’s basically a message board where hundreds of journalists every day will say, “I’m writing a story on this topic, I’m looking for an expert to interview or quote.” They might need a particular type of credential and you can just directly apply and just really follow the instructions carefully. Write the answers in the email and don’t stray from the guidelines. Do what they asked for and nothing more. Check out a podcast service. There are also podcast services now, which might land smaller podcasts. But there are a lot of podcasts that are on some of these subscription services for a very inexpensive fee. You can subscribe, and similar to HARO, you can do a posting on here’s my topic, I’m an expert on this, and then you’ll get some podcast bookings out of it. So there’s lots of things that you can do on your own.ResourcesLearn more about Mark Fortier and the work he does in the world, here. Connect with Mark on Twitter and LinkedIn. Connect with Fortier Public Relations on LinkedIn. 

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The post Episode 54: Best Practices to Secure Media Wins appeared first on Weaving Influence.

Episode 53: Everything You Need to Know Before Investing in an Audiobook

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Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. In this episode, we are joined by Tina Dietz—CEO and co-founder of Twin Flames Studios, award-winning and internationally acclaimed speaker, audiobook publisher, podcast producer, and influence marketing expert.

About Tina Dietz

Becky: I am so thrilled today to be interviewing Tina Dietz. Tina is a friend I made, actually, as a result of this podcast. A previous guest, Jenn T. Grace, introduced us, and I’m so glad she did, because I’ve already learned so much from you, Tina. So before we dive in, I hope you’ll take a moment and tell our listeners about your work in the world.

Tina: Well, my company Twin Flames Studios focuses on getting more great voices out to the world. So really the mission behind the company is that audiobooks and podcasts are some of the lowest hanging fruit for people to start to change their lives. So particularly with audiobooks, and certainly with podcasts, they tend to be low cost or free. They’re available in multiple countries, a lot of them can be in multiple languages, and their stories are what keep us all connected as human beings. So the more that we can help leaders, subject matter experts, and people who have lived extraordinary lives in the nonfiction space, which is our specialty, tell their stories and get it out to the world, the more we can make a difference and leave our own legacy, as well as help with the legacies of all these authors that we work with. So what we’re talking about today is mostly our audiobook division, which is strictly nonfiction audiobooks. And we do full, done-for-you production, publishing, and distribution, both for professional narration as well as author narration, which is something we’re known for.

Have you noticed a trend of people buying audiobooks vs. other formats?

Becky: Tina, that’s really intriguing and I look forward to hearing more about that author voice narration. But let’s talk for a moment, first, about audiobooks as a genre. I’m curious to see what you’ve noticed about the trend of people buying audiobooks rather than other formats.

Tina: It’s been an interesting art because audiobooks are certainly not new. The first audiobook was produced during the Great Depression, and I believe it was a Christmas story. They’ve always been around. Those of us who are a little bit older will remember books on tape and getting them out at the library, things like that. But up until the shift in the market about six, eight years ago, where audiobooks became digital, the production of audiobooks was generally relegated to traditional publishing. It was very expensive to do and very expensive to distribute, because everything was in a hardcopy, and first on tape, well, first an album, then on tape, and God forbid, on 8-track, and then ultimately on CDs. So when everything went digital, and Amazon and Audible became the same company, when voice acting and narrators became available more online, we had the rise of the gig economy, all of these things kind of created a perfect storm for the rise and the renaissance of the audiobook. So audiobooks have risen in sales year upon year, in double digits for the last eight years. And some of those years, it’s been a 20% to even 25% rise in the sales of audiobooks. So it’s a billion dollar industry in the US alone, and the accessibility of it is largely what makes them so so so popular.

What are some reasons an author would consider investing in an audiobook?

Becky: Well, as the wife of a man who only consumes books via audio, I know that there are many people who really are drawn in a big way to that ease of being able to listen while you drive, or listen while you get something else done. And I think in a way, you already answered this question, Tina, but I’m gonna ask it anyway. What are some reasons an author would consider investing in an audiobook?

Tina: Well, you definitely have to look at what your purpose is, and I’m really glad you asked this question. So on the nonfiction side of the equation—fiction is going to have a different answer, and I can touch on it if you’d like—but on the nonfiction side of things, an author wants to look at doing an audiobook to access a wider audience, first of all. A lot of executives, C-suite folks, people who are decision makers or at high levels in their career, often listen to audio, or listen to audio and buy a copy of the book so that they can switch formats because they can multitask, and also because audiobooks you can listen to at faster speeds. So I know lots of people, including myself, who might put an audiobook up to one and a half time speed, in order to be able to consume the information and get what they need, and then maybe have a hard copy of the book to reference back or make notes in as they go, using it as a learning tool. And they use it to keep your brain juicy as you go. So having an audiobook does open up those markets. An audiobook is also a marketing tool and it is an evergreen marketing tool, just like your book is. So using snippets of your book, in audiograms, in book trailers, in different parts of your material, or even potentially as material to create a course or modules in the backend membership site that you might have, you can use your audiobook in all of these different ways as an asset, not just distributed on Audible.

Why might an author choose to narrate their own book?

Becky: So Tina, this might be a good time to talk about this idea of an author narrated audiobook. Why might an author choose to narrate their own book?

Tina: Well, speaking as an entrepreneur myself, I would say that we all have egos, so that’s really the first truth. You have to know that it feels, if you’ve gone through all of the process of writing a book that is part of your soul on paper, and it is in your voice and of course, you want to have the experience. And I hear this all the time, “I’m the only person that could narrate this book.” Now, that’s not actually true, but an author may actually feel very strongly about that. We should probably also, if we have time, talk about why an author wouldn’t narrate their own book, because most of our authors come to us assuming that they are going to narrate their own book. But for those who do want to have that, if you are going after speaking gigs, if you want to have your voice known in a particular industry, or if your voice is already highly associated with your work, you have a popular podcast, you’re a TED speaker, so on and so forth, there may be some congruency to having your voice on the book. At least in part, not every author narrates their entire audio book, sometimes we do what I lovingly call a Tony Robbins sandwich, which is a hybrid version of the book where the author introduces the material, does the introduction or the first chapter, and then kind of hands it off to a professional narrator who shares similar vocal qualities as the author, and certainly has similar energy as the author, and then the author comes back at the end of the book to wrap things up. Sometimes there’s a happy middle ground between the two, given how busy most of our authors are.

What are other reasons an author may not choose to narrate their own audiobook?

Becky: Well, that’s an amazing idea. And so in addition to being maybe too busy to narrate your own audiobook, Tina, what are some other reasons an author may not choose to narrate their own audiobook?

Tina: Well, not every expert has, first of all, a great voice. Not every expert has the desire to do it. That has a lot to do with it, because it feels like a slog behind the microphone. Because narrating an audiobook is no joke. It takes time. It takes discipline. We fully produce and direct our authors through the process. We remote into their home offices, make sure that we get great sound quality, all kinds of great stuff to support them. But ultimately, if you aren’t feeling it, you’re not going to have a good audiobook. And so not everybody is a verbal communicator. They might be really strong in writing, but not really enjoy a lot of speaking, particularly in long form narration like an audiobook requires. So there’s a really important cocktail of desire, skill, experience, and time that go into whether we determine it’s a best path forward for an author to have their own voice on the book, versus a professional narrator on the book. And not for nothing, but some authors may actually have either physical or other issues happening, that it’s not a good fit for them, depending on what they have going on in their lives or their abilities.

When is the best time for an author to release their audiobook?

Becky: That’s really helpful. So when do you find is the best time for an author to release their audiobook?

Tina: We tend to have authors come to us in one of two areas, or one or two timeframes, I should say. One is that they’re getting ready to launch a new book. And if it’s an author narrated book and they’re planning on doing preorders for their book, there are some technical caveats to when you can actually get your audiobook launched, particularly on Audible. Audible is the 500 pound gorilla in the room when it comes to audiobook distribution. They do own about 60% of the market share in audiobook sales. So not being on Audible is going to be a problem for you if you’re not there. So they have some rules about when you can get your audiobook out. But generally we can get pretty close, with an author narrated audiobook, to your launch date. And that’s kind of one scenario, you’re launching a new book and you end up putting the audiobook out, either at the same time as the other versions of it, or it’s a staggered launch anytime generally, within the first six months of the launch, there’s a lot of advantages to doing it that way, because it extends the life of the launch and you can get the same audience excited about a new format, or reach people that you haven’t reached before. So it’s a nice marketing technique to stagger your audiobook launch after the hardcover or ebook versions of the book that might come out first. 

The other version of audiobook launches comes into play when we have a book that could use a second life. Many authors come to us and they say, “I wish I could relaunch my book, knowing what I know now.” They may have had a difficult relationship with their original publisher, or they didn’t have the chops that they have now in marketing. So an audiobook is a way to give your book a second chance, and basically have a second launch, and that’s really valuable as well. Some folks even want to do a second edition of their book or add new material to it, so that comes into play as well.

Becky: That’s all really great advice and aligns to what I’ve coached authors to do. So I’m glad that we’re on the same page. It’s encouraging to hear. 

What does the process look like?

Becky: Tina, I’d love for you to explain to our listeners about the steps that you take, as you coach authors through this process. Obviously, you mentioned that it’s done for you. So you’re creating the audiobook for and with them. Tell me about those steps and about the timelines, so that if our listeners are considering investing in an audiobook, they know what to expect.

Tina: Yeah, let me talk about timelines first. So generally, we’re looking at about 90 days in either case, whether it’s author narrated, or professionally narrated. Some of this highly depends on the availability of the author, certainly in the case of the author narrated, but also in the case of professionally narrated, because there are key times that the author is needed to make choices. So for example, in the professionally narrated case, we have an audition process that is very robust, and we get about 150 auditions, per book, on average. We curate all of those auditions, first for sound and goodness of fit, and also the energy. Can we actually believe that this narrator is delivering this material? All of that gets done on the first round.

The second round is professional vetting. Can they meet the timeline? Can they meet the budget? How are they to work with? So we do all of that, before we present our authors with a list. Generally, we have about eight to twelve choices of our top picks, with their auditions in our notes on why we think they’re great. But we need the author to have a little time to listen through those things, and make a choice. So depending on how busy the author is, we can throw timelines off based on how much time they take, or God forbid, if they decide to make decisions by committee, which could happen. But the author is one of the couple of key things that we do that are important, because the author has creative choices, we’re not taking over the process like a traditional publisher would. We also don’t take any rights or royalties. So we keep our authors involved in the creative process, one way or another. 

So in the case of professional narration, once we have a narrator selected, and we’ve produced kind of the first 15 minutes or so with the book, and everybody’s on board with the tone and the pacing, the characterization that the narrator is using, the process goes quite quickly. And we, of course, handle all of this, not just the narration and the direction, but the proofing, the editing, the mastering, and after the author has had a chance to sign off on everything and it’s all good to go, it goes into a quality control process. Quality control on Audible can take up to 30 business days, so that’s all part of that 90 day period that I’m talking about. 

Similarly, on the author narrated side of things, I mentioned before we do sound checks, we do all of that. And then it’s a matter of scheduling the recording times, and you cannot bang out an audio book in a day. Most professional narrators don’t record for longer than two to three hours a day. So a non professional—like even a professional speaker—very, very rarely do we run into authors who can narrate for longer than two hours at a time. More likely it’s 90 minutes without losing gas, without their energy dropping into their feet, and that’s okay. But you do have to account for that in the schedule.

What is the average length of an audiobook?

Becky: What would be the average length of an audiobook, in this nonfiction kind of thought leadership experts space?

Tina: A lot of our books are right around the 30,000 to 50,000 word mark. When you get into really short books, 20,000 words or less, they don’t tend to do as well in sales for audiobooks. There are some exceptions, of course, simply because audiobooks are generally sold on a membership basis. So when you are an audiobook member of Audible, and you have a credit that you can use on an audiobook that is an hour and a half or two hours long, versus eight or 10 hours long, the perceived value is higher on the longer book. Now, that’s not to say that you shouldn’t do an audiobook version of a shorter book, but we might tweak the distribution strategy, and talk with you further about how that audio is going to be used to the best advantage.

Becky: Wow, I am learning so much today! I am sure our listeners are as well. 

What’s the range of investment that an author should expect if they want to create an audiobook? 

Becky: So my final question as it relates to audiobooks, Tina, is what’s the range of investment that an author should expect if they want to create an audiobook with the type of support that your organization provides?

Tina: Sure, absolutely. I think that for most books, on average, we look at somewhere in the $3,000 to $5,000 range. Sometimes less for shorter books. Sometimes more if somebody wants multiple narrators and they want music added. We’ve had a few specialty books that we’ve done that have even incorporated the audio from video clips and things like that, that have happened from major events, and whatnot. The average kind of cost of an audiobook with everything included, including the distribution, is definitely going to be in that three to five range.

Becky: I appreciate that transparency, because I think it really sets people up to consider whether this is an investment that they’re prepared to make. 

Action Steps

Becky: So, Tina, our listeners are used to us always giving them action steps at the end of every podcast, because this is the book marketing action podcast. I know you have a couple of action steps that you’d like people to take today. 

Tina: Oh, yeah, for sure.

Read your book out loud. The first thing is, have you ever read your book out loud? Take a couple of chapters of your book and just try reading it out loud. See how it feels. See how you like the material. Most of our authors, when they read their book out loud, which we have them do before they step into any kind of recording situation, they have a series of reactions to their own work. We all do. You also have a series of reactions to the sound of your own voice, and that’s okay too. But try it on, try it out and see what that’s like for you. If you’re in the process of writing a book, definitely read the book out loud before you finalize your editing, you will find all kinds of things there to make the book more narrative, maybe to shorten up sentences a little bit. And you’ll even catch errors that you didn’t catch when you were just doing it visually. So that’s really the first thing go read your book out loud. Download the step-by-step guide. The second thing is, is that a lot of the things that I talked about today, we’ve put into a guide. And we also have frequently asked questions and all kinds of good information, best practices, and a full kind of step-by-step guide on how to get your audiobook done. And you can find that at Launchyouraudiobook.com.ResourcesLearn more about Tina Dietz’s company, Twin Flames Studios, here. If you want to learn more about how successful authors leverage their books, download Tina’s free guide here. Connect with Tina on Twitter, LinkedIn, and Instagram. Connect with Twin Flames Studios on LinkedIn and YouTube. 

If you found value in today’s episode, we hope you’ll take a moment to share it with someone else who might benefit from it. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to cover, please email Becky Robinson here.

Click here for our free resources. 

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review. 

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The post Episode 53: Everything You Need to Know Before Investing in an Audiobook appeared first on Weaving Influence.

You’ve Been Booked as a Podcast Guest, Now What?

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9 Tips to Be a Great Podcast Guest

Congratulations! You’ve been invited to appear as a guest on a podcast to share your expertise and tell your story, but the time to celebrate is short-lived; your work is just beginning. Don’t worry; heavy lifting is not required, just a bit of time and consideration.

Preparation is key to a successful and effective podcast interview—and a successful and effective interview is key to bolstering your reputation, growing your audience, and securing future interviews.

How can you ensure you’re a great podcast guest? Here are nine tips.

Before the Interview:

Study Up!

Take time to read through the podcast’s description, listener reviews, and listen to a couple of episodes. Understanding the host’s interview style and flow will help eliminate surprise questions and ensure a smooth transition from topic to topic. Similarly, understanding the audience’s preference will provide more traction for post-interview benefits. 

Provide Background Information

If you’re partnering with Weaving Influence for your media outreach needs, we’ll provide the hosts with your bio, headshots, and appropriate links; however, if you’re pitching yourself, be sure to send this information to the host and/or their producer ahead of the interview. This information will often be included in the show notes and will provide clear calls to action for both the listeners and the hosts, including book buy links, lead magnets, and social media information.

Present a Story

The goal of the interview is to guide the listeners through a story, a lesson, or a challenge, providing them with entertaining yet helpful information. Take a moment to prepare two to three potential topics and stories you can share with the audience. It’s important to remain accessible, authentic, and knowledgeable. It’s even more important to offer actionable takeaways.During the Interview:

Get Mic’d Up

Be sure you are in a quiet room with little background noise and few distractions. There’s no need to purchase top-of-the-line equipment; however, a headset with noise-canceling headphones and an attached microphone will provide high-quality audio at little cost.

Be Prepared For Both Audio and Video

More often than not, only the audio files will be released; however, many hosts will share the video files on their YouTube channels and other social platforms. Be sure your presentation, both physical and background, are representative of your brand.

Keep It Conversational

It sounds obvious, but you’d be surprised how few guests address the host by name during the interview. Be engaged, keep your answers concise, be confident, and most importantly, have fun! After the Interview:

It’s Good to Say Thanks

Follow up with a quick thank you note and an offer to provide any additional details or resources that may have come up during the conversation, including links, downloads, videos, etc. 

Share. Share. Share.

Ask the host to send you and your team a link to the published episode when it goes live, and be sure to share on your social media channels, tagging both the host and the show when applicable.

Make Proper Introductions

Strengthen your partnership with the podcast host by introducing them to fellow thought-leaders and subject-matter experts that you believe may make excellent guests for future episodes.BONUS: Hear from the hosts themselves: 

Podcasts are an excellent way to reach new audiences, boost your social credibility, and expand the reach of your message, but they must be done right. By spending a bit of time familiarizing yourself with the host, the format, and their audience, and coming to the interview prepared, open, and engaged, you’ll rise in rank to an excellent podcast guest in no time.

A good podcast guest is someone who comfortably shares their knowledge without arrogance, while remaining curious about other perspectives. They arrive prepared, know when to pause, and embrace the imperfection of a human conversation. —Bev Attfield, People at Work I love when guests show up ready to roll. A mark of professionalism is when a guest prepares for the podcast, but is also open to flow with the podcast. A guest who can convey their message clearly and in a dynamic way is going to win every time. —Heather Walker, Lead with Levity The best podcast guests enthrall my audience with a compelling combination of heart and mind engagement—squeezing the heart of a listener with moving story-telling; and elevating the intellectual mind with compelling facts and science-driven data. —Marcel Schwantes, Love in Action I’m looking for guests who are leading transformation in their respective arena, preferably on a national or global scale, and can inspire and equip others to be difference-makers and world changers. They must be committed to integrity and operate in love and service of others, and demonstrate longevity and uniqueness in the transformation they are creating – ideally, transformation that addresses a root issue at the core. — Nicole Jansen, Leaders of Transformation

The post You’ve Been Booked as a Podcast Guest, Now What? appeared first on Weaving Influence.

Episode 52: The Value of Being a Guest on Podcasts

Photo by Maria Bobrova / 123rf.com

Click here to listen on your device and subscribe! 

Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. This month, we are focusing on the topic of podcasts. In this episode, we are joined by a longtime friend and client, Eileen McDargh—award-winning motivational speaker, executive coach, and author of Burnout to Breakthrough. 

About Eileen McDargh

Becky: We are going to be talking today about the value of being a guest on podcasts. And before we get started on that, Eileen, I hope that you’ll take a moment to tell our listeners about your work in the world and about your latest book. 

Eileen: Good deal. Well, it is my eighth book. The title is Burnout to Breakthrough: Building Resilience to Refuel, Recharge, and Reclaim What Matters, and the good news is the topic is perfect for now. The bad news is the topic is perfect for now. What I do in the world is, I am a wordsmith. I use the written and spoken words to be able to help individuals and organizations create conversations that matter and connections that count so they can grow resiliency, which I think is a life skill. It’s not an, “Oh my god, it’s terrible. Now I gotta be resilient.” We use this all the time. So how do I create resilient relationships, resilient organizations, resilient families, and my own life to be resilient? So I’ve been doing this for, I’ll tell you how many years it is, but I can’t believe that. It’s actually going on 40 years, which is amazing, Becky, because I’m only 22.

Becky: That’s some interesting math, Eileen. Well, you and I were talking before we started the recording, maybe you can tell people about the unique place that you live in. 

Eileen: I live in Dana Point, California, and moved here when I got married and went from coast to coast. I lived on the East Coast, on Amelia Island Plantation. So on that part of the ocean, now I’m at this part of the ocean. If I turn my head to the right, I can look over the roofs of houses and I can see the Pacific Ocean. So it took me probably almost 10 years to be looking in the right place to see the sunrise because I was used to looking in one direction. And that’s where it set, not where it rose. 

What did you enjoy most about the podcast tour you did?

Becky: Amazing. Well, I’m so excited to have this conversation with you today, Eileen, because we had a very successful campaign with you in placing podcasts related to the launch of your book. And so I’m curious what you enjoyed most about the podcast tour that you did.

Eileen: What I really loved was number one was the opportunity to talk about the book. You don’t get that. It’s not like you go to a cocktail party and see people say, let me tell you about a new book, it doesn’t happen. So what was wonderful was to be able to talk about the book, but also you guys found me different windows with which to talk about the book. So in other words, like one, it just came out because he was so booked. It is a leadership podcast, which is very different from a podcast that’s going to talk about stress and health and wellness. So the leadership podcast was very wonderful, and it’s a different take. So what I loved was, number one, was the opportunity to talk to the people. Number two, you didn’t put me in front of people who weren’t amateurs, shall we say. They knew exactly what they were doing and they asked good questions. And they were so fascinating. I enjoyed every one of them. In fact, one of the benefits of doing this was that one of the interviewers has become my video producer. It turns out he does Business Access Podcast, and we just hit it off. He’s just a darling young man. He’s out of Brazil, lives outside of DC. He and his wife just had their first baby. Well, I’m the aunt of that first baby. I helped name that child! So it’s interesting the kind of friendships that you make.

Becky: That’s amazing and unexpected.

How do you know when a podcast is a match for you?

Becky: I’m wondering how you know when a podcast is a match for you, and how you avoid getting caught up in the ego of the moment?

Eileen: Well, this might sound really weird, Becky. I don’t think I have a lot of ego. I just don’t think I do. However, I do not want to waste anyone’s time, including mine. And so one of the potential podcasts, what the requirements were, the number of hoops I had to jump through, some of their questions were things that were really not related to the book.  I said, “I’m going to pass. Thank you very much. But I don’t think I’m going to do that.” So you can tell when there’s kind of a mismatch that you don’t really belong. Yeah, I’ve done that with speeches that there was one in which, when I read everything that they wanted, I said, “I’m not the person for you. You need someone who is trauma-informed. I’m not trauma-informed. Let me see who else I can find for you.” So your gut will tell you.

What benefits did you expect to achieve by participating in podcasts as it relates to marketing your book?

Becky: That’s helpful. Eileen, I’m wondering if you can tell us what benefits you expected to achieve by participating in podcasts as it relates to marketing your book.

Eileen: The benefits to me are fairly obvious. Number one is notoriety. Whenever the podcast occurred, and they told us when it was running, we then used our social media network and put that thing out. And oftentimes, we could repeat it in multiple different formats, whether it’s on Twitter, or LinkedIn, or Facebook, or Instagram. And I see that we’re picking up more people coming to my website and signing up for the newsletter. Now, can I say, because you heard me on this, that’s why you bought the book? No, but let me tell you, sitting by yourself in an office is not going to sell books and there is no way that I can have the reach that people with podcasts have, because they spend their entire time trying to figure out how to get listeners. So the more of a match it is for me with the person doing the podcast, the better is the chance that the person listening is a potential buyer of my product.

What advice would you give authors who want to become a guest on a podcast?

Becky: That’s very helpful. Eileen, let’s talk about some advice you might have for authors who want to become a guest on podcasts, but haven’t done so yet.

Eileen: The first thing I guess, I would say is what makes you worthy to get a podcast? What is it that you can speak about, succinctly that someone would want to hear? So it can’t just be the title of your book. There has to be more that is there and you also need to figure out, if I had 10 minutes, what are the top two things that I would want people to know that would be worthwhile knowing? So as much as we love our books, we have to step back and become divorced from the book, if you will, to say why would someone care about that? So the more you can tie it into what is happening in the real world right now, the closer you come to having the potential of being considered as a guest. So if I was talking about, oh, the creation of the European Union and what the benefits were, excuse me, that’s like boring. It has nothing related to anything. If, however, and I had the right podcaster that I’m talking about, how can you optimize sales within a European Union that sometimes is closed? How do you do that? I’m making this up, obviously. But you get the gist. It needs to be correct and relevant.

How do you sustain your energy around your book in the world?

Becky: So Eileen, I think it would be so fun to apply the topic of your book to the journey an author goes through. So I’m really curious as an author, how do you sustain your energy around your book in the world? How do you avoid burnout? And how do you make sure you have a breakthrough as it relates to your marketing of your book?

Eileen: That’s a really great question. Because there are multiple ways in which you can get burned out. Number one is in the writing. There are times in which you just have to walk away from that book, because you’re too close to it. And then you come back and say, “What is the focus? What’s really important?” What puts us into burnout in the real world is we try to juggle so many things. We think we can handle it all. So my first advice has to do with the marking of the book is the focus, you literally have to close yourself in and say, “I’ve got two hours here, and I’m not doing anything with this book.” Now when we talk about the marketing of the book, and how do we not face burnout, I think we need to celebrate small wins. You’re not going to probably get the cover of The Wall Street Journal, you’re probably not going to be listed in the top 10 books of The New York Times. So give yourself some reasonable expectations. And when you get something go, “Wow, isn’t that great!” and celebrate that. We never know who’s listening to these podcasts, who has in their circle of influence other people who could benefit from our book and therefore would buy it or pass it along. I think it’s that notion of an inch is a sinch, a mile takes a while. So I think when we celebrate the inches, they ultimately add up into miles.

Have you ever experienced burnout as an author?

Becky: Well, and we’re both runners. So that’s a good analogy for us. Eileen, have you ever experienced burnout as an author? Would you be willing to share with us?

Eileen: I have experienced burnout as a human being. Because I am an author, that’s part of it. And I think for me, the burnout is trying to do too much too fast and losing focus. And you just say, “I can’t do this.” The other thing that I found when I write is that I have to write when I get inspired and different things inspire me. And so when I go back and look at some of the things I’ve written, I almost look at that and go, “Oh, my god, I wrote that? Whoa, that’s really good. That’s better than I thought.” Because when we write in the moment, we’re better than when I say I have to do these two chapters. 

The other thing that sometimes can burn you out is when it’s a mismatch with the editor. The editor keeps telling you to do this, this, this, and this, and your instinct says no. Now, if you have a really good editor, be quiet and listen to the editor. They do know, oftentimes, more than you do, but ultimately it is your child and how you want your child to look, what you’re willing to do, is very important to the birthing of that child. Then once the baby’s born, you got to send that baby to college. You got to work with that. You can’t just say, “Okay, been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, next.” You do have to put the time and the energy into it. And so I’m also constantly looking for articles that I can refer to. Doesn’t mean I have to come up with original things, but I can put out on social media, “here’s a great article related to burnout, a subject that I’m very familiar with and love. So let me suggest that you read it.” So that way you have a multiplier effect.

Becky: Let’s talk about breakthrough as an author. What are some breakthroughs you’ve experienced?

Eileen: Oh my, breakthroughs! Well, I guess the biggest breakthrough is when you finally get the book written. I think other breakthroughs are when you hear from people who have read your words, and say how much it helped them. That really is a breakthrough, because ultimately, while we write of our own inspiration, we hope that our words matter to someone. And so when someone says, “I got something. I followed what you said in that, and oh my god, what a difference it makes.” Now, this is obviously in the nonfiction world, but that, to me, that was worth the journey. It was worth the effort.

Becky: Well, I love that. And we have veered a little bit from our originally intended topic today, Eileen, of what it’s like to be a guest on podcasts. But I hope that our detour is encouraging to those who might listen. And I think you’re saying things that every author can relate to. On my own author journey, I can certainly relate to that.

Eileen: Let me say also, and I’m saying this not because you and I know each other and you help me with my book, but I will say that you have managed to put around you an incredibly diligent and talented team, who even once we finished what we thought was our working relationship, they still keep you in mind, they still pop up and say, “Don’t forget, you need to go see XYZ, or put this on your calendar because the podcast that we hoped would happen this year isn’t going to happen until next year.” And they stick with it, which I think is pretty darn incredible. 

Action Steps

Becky: Thank you so much for that endorsement. So we typically will wrap up every podcast episode by giving the authors who are listening some action steps that they can take immediately, based on what they heard from our conversation. And so I’m hoping that we can identify a couple of possible action steps.

Eileen: 

Itemize who cares about your book. The first action step to me would be to itemize who cares about your book, because nobody can market it if you can’t identify who that is written for. And if you say it’s written for the world, it’s too big, because the world is not going to buy. So the first action step is to identify who are your target markets. Who can help you share your book? Secondly, begin to identify whom do you know, within those target markets, that could be a resource, either as a testimonial, as a potential reader of that book, someone whom you want to gift that book when the book comes out, in the hopes that it makes sense to them, and they can write a review for you, wherever that review would appear. So what I’m saying is that you’re building a case for why this book, who wants it, and who can help me. 

Becky: Eileen, do you have any action steps specific to being a great guest on podcasts?

Eileen: Have fun and enjoy the conversation. I think you need to take the lead of the person who’s asking you the questions. But here’s the other thing. I have fun asking questions of the interviewer, which nobody ever does. And so when you ask a question, like if I would say to you, Becky, what do you, because you’re going to have a book coming out, what is the first thing that you did to be able to market your book as you began to write it?

Becky: It’s an excellent question. I guess I’ll take the moment to answer it. So we have not actually announced my book on the podcast yet. So if you’re listening and you don’t know that I have a book deal, I signed a contract with Berrett Koehler publishers for a book to come out in spring of 2022. And the first thing that I did to market the book is I went out to my newsletter list first. So I have a Friday email that goes out every week, and as soon as I knew that the contract was finalized, I wrote an email. I used the subject line, “You heard it here first”, and I shared my news with my newsletter list. The second thing I did was share it on Facebook, I believe. And then the third thing I did was share it on LinkedIn.

Eileen: Perfect, perfect. Now notice, you had to have a list to begin with. So I think if somebody is listening to this, and they’re an author, and they have no list, they haven’t created anything, they haven’t reached out and built a community, it’s going to be rather difficult to move that book. So what you have done is you’ve optimized your community, if you let them know in advance what’s happening. You didn’t ask anything of them, you just shared some great news, which is what colleagues and friends do. Later on, you can ask for their support, but right now, they’re just applauding what you have done.

Becky: Thank you so much for that, Eileen. That was fun. So I’m glad that we had this chance to catch up. I hope that you will check out Eileen and her work. 

ResourcesGet your copy of Burnout to Breakthrough: Building Resilience to Refuel, Recharge, and Reclaim What Matters, on Amazon. Learn more about the work Eileen McDargh is doing in the world on her website. Connect with Eileen on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and YouTube. Sign-up to receive The Resiliency Report, her newsletter, and receive an excerpt of Eileen’s new book, Burnout to Breakthrough, and a bonus: a digital copy of Talk Ain’t Cheap: It’s Priceless-Connecting in a Disconnected World.

If you found value in today’s episode, we hope you’ll take a moment to share it with someone else who might benefit from it. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to cover, please email Becky Robinson here.

Click here for our free resources. 

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review. 

Click here to tweet about this episode!

The post Episode 52: The Value of Being a Guest on Podcasts appeared first on Weaving Influence.

Episode 51: Charles Bergman and Susan Mann’s Author Journey

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Click here to listen on your device and subscribe! 

Welcome to a very special edition of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson. Normally we release podcasts on Tuesday, and today is Thursday. It’s Earth Day, and in just a few days it is World Penguin Day. I had the chance to interview Charles Bergman, the author of Every Penguin in the World: A Quest to See Them All. Charles and his wife, Susan Mann, took this amazing journey all around the world, to see every species of penguin, photograph them, and write this amazing book. 

Because today’s Earth Day, and because World Penguin Day is coming up on April 25, we wanted to release this very special episode to give you a glimpse into Charles and Susan’s journey, and then also just to make you aware of this important cause of conserving penguins in their natural habitats. Charles Bergman has a keynote coming up on April 25, with the Smithsonian Associates, available for both members of the Smithsonian and nonmembers to register, and there is a fee associated with it. The link is below in the resource section, with information about how you can register for this upcoming event.

Author Journey Background

Becky: I want to let you know that this is the first of several podcasts that I’m recording as I prepare to publish my book, Reach: Creating Lasting Impact for Your Book, Message, or Cause. My book is coming in April 2022. I’ve been interviewing different authors and thought leaders as I write the book, and this interview that you’re about to listen to is one of the interviews in my series as I write my book. So it is a little bit different, but it does focus on ideas and tricks that you can apply in marketing your own book. One of the things I want you to listen for is the fact that Charles’s book came out last spring, just about a year ago, and it dropped right after the COVID pandemic began. I actually didn’t meet Charles and Susan until later and we did this relaunch campaign to get some additional lift for their book. And it’s a great reminder that it’s never too late to use your book, to share your message in the world.  I’m just thrilled to have been able to support Charles and Susan in creating greater reach for their book, and I think their story will have some ideas for you. 

Charles Bergman and Susan Mann’s Interview

Becky: So Charles and Susan, I want to talk to you a little bit today about the ways that you’ve kept your book, Every Penguin in the World, in conversations online. So I’m curious if you could share with me a few ways that you’ve promoted your book since it first came out?

Charles: Well, apart from Weaving Influence, which was a big part of what we did, I’ve had a speech and book talk that I’ve done about 25 different times to various audiences, both large and small. So far the biggest was Penguin International for Penguin Awareness Day. And I will be doing one for World Penguin Day on April 25, with the Smithsonian. So that’ll have a national and international reach. I also identified lots of Audubon chapters. I’ve written about four, maybe five different articles for magazines in one form or another- photography magazines, environmental, and nature and animal magazines. I’ve done, I think, six or seven interviews for podcasts. So quite a range of activities.

Susan: I would also add that we’ve had this steady drumbeat on social media. And so you know, there are regular posts.

What surprises have you encountered along the journey?

Becky: I noticed those. I love following the two of you. So I’m curious about that. You talked about the various opportunities to do online events associated with the book for all the different things that you’ve tried. What surprises have you encountered along the journey?

Charles: Well, there were a couple of big surprises. One of the great surprises was Washington Post did an interview with me, which they published with photos, and that had a huge boost. That was really terrific. I think there’s a certain kind of national media exposure that makes a really big impact and it sustained it for about three weeks, I think. There was a big spike and it hasn’t fallen really all the way back at all and so that’s very, very exciting.

Becky: So is that a sales spike that you saw as a result of the Washington Post piece?

Charles: Yeah, absolutely. 

Becky: In what ways do people reach out to you as a result of that Washington Post interview?

Charles: Well, lots of email messages and lots of Facebook messages. We have a bookplate which I sign and we’ll mail to people if they buy the book and so we’ve gotten lots of requests for the bookplate.

Becky: Oh, wow. Well, I’m so I’m curious about the messages that you got related to the Washington Post piece. Would you say that those came because people saw the Washington Post piece on their own? Or because of the social media exposure that you gave the Washington Post piece through your channels?

Charles: I think one of my big surprises was how many people found it on their own and came to me or Susan. Of course, we did a social media blitz about it. But lots of people found it on their own. It was great. It was prominent on the front page in the travel section and that was exciting. 

Susan: Yeah, I think it’s an important point. I mean, kind of the power of that kind of public relations. I’m not really sure what you would call it, you’d have the correct term for it, Becky, on that. While we were capitalizing on it on social media, it was just amazing how many people did find it on their own and reached out to one or both of us. People that I knew from my career that I hadn’t talked with for several years were emailing out of the blue. 

What particularly about your book attracted that opportunity?

Becky: Yeah, we were so excited to see that win for you. As I’m listening to you talk about it, in terms of my company, and the number of big media wins like that, that we’ve generated in 10 years, we’ve only generated a few. So do you have any sense of what it is particularly about your book that attracted that opportunity?

Charles: Well, I do actually. The writer, Andrea Sachs, likes penguins and was really interested in our penguin journey. In fact, she had interest herself seeing all 18 species of penguins. So, the interview really wasn’t specific. I mean, the interview was broader. I think she did a really good job of doing the interview, but it was grounded in that desire to actually do the trip. I think that really made a difference, and people really liked reading it.

Susan: Yeah, this is maybe a bit more generalized beyond this specific Washington Post question, Becky. But absolutely, penguins are a huge attractor for people, especially in a pandemic year, which makes book sales difficult in some ways. The idea of armchair traveling has been attractive to people. And the book is so beautifully written about the penguin quest, and these amazing photos. And so that’s been really a draw for people. And then the other thing that we hear time after time is that this is something that we did together. And there seems a bit of a romantic idea of a couple pursuing such a huge, adventurous goal over such a long period of time that also seems attractive to people.

Becky: I certainly think so. And when we think about those either books or messages or ideas that take flight or achieve extreme breach it is because they start the basis is something worthwhile, there’s value in the product that you produced. And you have to start with that.

Charles: I would also say, about surprises, I should probably have known this from other books I’ve done but I had this kind of fantasy that the book would sort of take off on its own. That it might find its stride and just sort of manage itself. And all the publicity would just happen because of word of mouth, or whatever. I mean, the real lesson for me, in this particular publishing project, is that we had something we really liked and believed in and got behind it. But it takes really kind of sustained activity on a variety of platforms from a variety of points of view, to kind of build a certain sort of momentum.

It was published last spring, right in the middle of the pandemic. And so we believe that as we came into the fall, that there was a chance for a second kind of launch as it were, and that’s when we contacted you. Our faith in that was really worn out because we went through this huge portion of sales and I think it was a result of all sorts of things coming together over a sustained period of time. And I don’t know when you kind of reach a certain magic quantity, or magic kind of stat state. But I think even the publisher was surprised, happily surprised at how well it did in the fall.

What does keeping your book in the conversation mean to the two of you?

Becky: So I’m curious if I use the phrase: keep your book in the conversation. What does that mean to the two of you?

Charles: Well, it means keeping people talking about it, keeping people aware of it, and keeping it visible. Keeping it visible in some way so people find it and can get a chance to enter into it and see what it’s all about.

Susan: A couple of things come up for me. I mean, one is Chuck’s done such a great job with these virtual keynotes and other ways of keeping the book in the conversation. And my work has been more on the social media side, and so part of what I, and we, are always thinking about with that is keeping the book in the conversation by featuring this cause that we’re so passionate about, that we believe so much in, which is wild animals, penguins, the natural world, and there is this whole environmental message that’s very important to us that is a running theme in social media. One of the other things that I’ve learned through this last, just over a year now, of focusing on social media is that I’m really thinking about the human being who’s looking at Instagram, LinkedIn, or Facebook. You know, at a post with a penguin photo, or a beautiful Antarctic landscape or whatever, I’m thinking about that person, and what will bring them a moment of joy? What will bring them a piece of information that they can act on? So there is something for me there about the human connection, that’s really important to remember, even when it’s all being done virtually and digitally.

Becky: That’s a really powerful thing to remember, Susan. So it sounds like you’re crafting the content to keep the book in the conversation with the human on the other side of the computer in mind, and ensuring that you’re crafting something that will land with them in a powerful way. 

How long do you envision investing in keeping your book in the conversation? 

Becky: So I’m curious how long you envision investing your energy in keeping this particular book in the conversation, and why?

Charles: Well, I suspect that I’ll keep giving talks about this and have spin-off articles and things like that, going for quite some time. I also think that probably when we get to this summer, that will be a year and a half or 15 months, and we’ll probably wind down on the really serious investment of time, energy, and promoting and move to the next project.

Susan: Yeah, I think there are certain baseline things that we envision doing indefinitely. And, when Chuck and I were talking earlier today, in anticipation of a call, I’m just gonna check my note, because you said it so well. One of the things he said is that, it has been a surprise how much work it takes, how much time, energy, and effort it takes, and that you, just in order to sell a book these days, it’s like you’re bombarding messages on so many fronts so frequently. I mean, I’ve been putting sometimes 10 hours a week into this. You’ve been putting a lot in. And so I think there is for us, we get to the official one-year anniversary of the launch mid-April, and we’re planning certain things into early summer, and then I think from there, it’ll be more maintenance mode, because this is a book that the publisher and everyone agrees is evergreen, that will have a life indefinitely, and so we do want to continue to do some things regularly, and take the foot off the gas pedal. I mean, maybe go back to 25 miles an hour instead of 100 miles an hour. It’s been a pretty intense pace.

Charles: One of my big lessons is that the book promotion requires so much more than the book publisher is able to really provide. They have a number of books that come out with each season, you get a certain amount of attention they give you and I’m not criticizing them or anything like that. I don’t want to be mistaken for saying that. But it takes so much more than they really are staffed or able to put behind it. And you’ve got to be prepared for putting big time and really thoughtful campaigns together to keep your book in the conversation, as you say.

Susan: Yeah, Sasquatch Books has been terrific. We both think very highly of them, but there’s only so much a publisher does.

What might a new project do for the other books that you’ve done in the past?

Becky: Yes, I have experienced that as well. So, Charles, you mentioned another project. So I’m curious what your vision of another project might be and what a new project might do for the other books that you’ve done in the past?

Charles: That’s actually a really interesting question. I don’t know what the next project will be. I have a few thoughts in mind and Susan and I need some serious conversation about it. We have a trip to Hawaii coming up, and that might be when we start thinking about that. But I suspect that whatever we do will be some kind of outgrowth of what this book has been. And I don’t mean that in a literal sense. Like, it’ll be titled, Every Puppet in the World, or something like that. I don’t mean that exactly. But that the voice and the kind of project that this was, the attempt to find some genuine way of speaking about an environmental crisis that the planet faces, in personal terms, with some grounding in emotion, will definitely be part of the lesson that’s come out of this book, because I think people have responded to the story, and the role of the photos and the relation with the story and the fact that it was a joint project, really positively. I suspect those elements will move forward with us. 

Susan: Yeah, I like that. As you say that, one of the other things that comes to my mind that I think has contributed to the book’s success and reach is that, in a way that surprises, I think, both of us a bit, it is absolutely multi-generational. And so, we’ve done virtual school presentations to grade-schoolers. Just yesterday, a colleague emailed me and said that her seven-year-old son was reading the book. I’ve had colleagues say their 10-year-old daughter was reading the book. So we’ve had grandparents buy it for their grandkids. I can think of a number of people who bought the book for their parents’ 80th or 85th birthday, for example. So really, from youngsters throughout the adult years to kind of elders, it’s a book that people find attractive, which is so cool. We love that.

Becky: So you’re also inspiring generations of travelers potentially.

Susan: Well, and we hope generations of environmentalists.

Charles: People whose imagination comes alive in thinking about penguins and nature. That stays with you for your life.

What is the lasting impact the two of you are hoping to create through this book and your other work?

Becky: Well, that leads me to the final question. I would love for you to share a little bit about the lasting impact the two of you are hoping to create through this book and through your other work. 

Charles: I mean, I hope that increased awareness about nature, animals, and penguins are part of what this book is all about. The photos, I think, have played a really huge role in the book, and my goal in writing the book was not to write a photo book and not to write a textbook with some photos in it, but to write a book in which photos and story spoke to each other in some way. And were equally important in the conception of the book, and then the way people experienced it, and that has been borne out. People always talk about the photos and how much they’ve appreciated them and I think that has affected people’s imagination about what penguins are, how many there are, how interesting they are, how cute they are, how unforgettable they are, in so many ways. Those images go in people’s minds and stay with them for a long time and I hope that’s really one of the big impacts.

Susan: You know, as you asked that question, I think about our grandkids, Ben, who is four, and Georgie, who is one. And one of the things that we talk about is, what of the natural world, what wild animals, what ice and other landscapes will be there for them, when they’re the ages that we are now? And I mean, I get teary eyed when I think about that, because there’s so much that’s at stake for wild animals and Mother Earth. And so, for me, one of the most important things is this idea of kind of the book’s legacy being penguin glow and that feeling of joy, something about learning and an insight and education that comes from it, and also inspiring people to take action.

Anything I should have asked you that I didn’t ask that you want the opportunity to say?

Becky: I love that. So is there anything I should have asked you that I didn’t ask you that you want the opportunity to say?

Charles: Well, I guess we didn’t say, I mean, we only referred to it, but I will say that Weaving Influence, actually deciding to go with you guys, was a huge difference maker in the fall. And I had never done anything like this in any of my earlier books, and didn’t know what to expect, really. But I’m really glad we did. It made a huge difference and I just don’t think most authors are capable of this, the kind of push that it requires to sustain over a month. I mean, we really were talking about a year-long campaign, figuring out almost daily ways of making ourselves visible in some way or another to potential buyers, editors, and readers. And there’s just no author I know that’s capable of that, and maybe one or two people are lucky and it takes off and flies off the shelf as they say, but people need help doing this. I think that’s an important discovery for me.

Susan: Yeah, I agree. I mean, you all have been terrific. Your team’s been terrific. It’s been an education process for both of us. Neither one of us has done anything like this before in terms of promoting a book this widely, this frequently, and taking it on. I mean, the book was set to come out right when the world went into shutdown, and so there just was so much pivoting that was necessary. So it’s been a big education process for sure. And we’re grateful for your help and your team’s guidance. 

Becky: Well, we’re grateful to have had the chance to get to know you, and excited to see those projects that might come out from the two of you in the future.

Action Steps

Becky: Thanks for listening to the interview with Charles and Susan, I want to make sure I give you a few action steps because this is the Book Marketing Action Podcast. Charles and Susan talked about the fact that they are looking at a long term view of marketing their books. 

Make a calendar. Get out a piece of paper and make four quadrants on your paper divided into four squares. And in the top left hand square, what I would like you to do is write Q2 2021, then Q3 2021, Q4 2021, and Q1 2022. Now, if you happen to be listening to this, you can adjust the dates to whatever the real dates are, if you’re listening later. Make a plan. Then what I want you to do is come up with four ideas or ways that you could market your book and keep your book in the conversation if it has already launched. Come up with one key initiative for each quarter that you can implement. So you know, maybe one of the quarters you want to do a concerted effort around following up with people to get some additional Amazon reviews for your book. So that might be your Q2 priority for 2021. Maybe you want to do a virtual event or book club for your book for Q3, maybe in Q4 you want to do a holiday gift campaign and create some energy around people buying your book as a gift. Whatever it is, spend some time brainstorming four ways over the next year that you can continue to bring attention to your book. Share it. If you do that, snap a picture of it and send it to me via email. I would love the chance to hear about your creative ideas, and how to keep your book in the conversation. 

Thanks so much for joining today’s podcast. We will be back next week at our regularly scheduled time. But I’m so glad we had this chance to talk with you today, on Earth Day, about a very important topic.

ResourcesLearn more about the work Charles and Susan are doing in the world.Check out Charles and Susan’s book, Every Penguin in the World: A Quest to See Them All, on Amazon. Connect with Charles on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. Connect with Susan on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. Sign up for Charles Bergman’s keynote coming up on April 25th, with the Smithsonian Associates. It is available for both members of the Smithsonian and nonmembers to register. 

If you found value in today’s episode, we hope you’ll take a moment to share it with someone else who might benefit from it. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to cover, please email Becky Robinson here.

Click here for our free resources. 

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review. 

Click here to tweet about this episode!

The post Episode 51: Charles Bergman and Susan Mann’s Author Journey appeared first on Weaving Influence.

Episode 50: Using your podcast as a vehicle to market your book

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Click here to listen on your device and subscribe! 

Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. This month, we are focusing on the topic of podcasts. In this episode we are joined by a longtime friend and client, Bonnie Marcus—executive coach, author, speaker, and podcast host.

About Bonnie Marcus

Becky: Before we dive into our topic today, I would love for you to tell our audience about your book.

Bonnie: My book is called Not Done Yet!: How Women Over 50 Regain Their Confidence and Claim Workplace Power. I really had fun with this book because it was a topic that I didn’t know, as much as I thought I did about one of these things. I have to confess that I realized as I was writing it, how ageist I am myself, and that was kind of a discovery, but it’s really a guidebook for women to defy their ageist assumptions, and stay marketable, keep their job, and stay at the top of their game. Because society really marginalizes women over 50, I would say, as soon as we start to show visible signs of aging, we are pretty much viewed as not having much value anymore. So I’m really passionate about that and it really kind of pissed me off, I felt like I really needed to bring some awareness to gender ageism, and also help women to navigate it.

When and why did you start your podcast?

Becky: Bonnie, you’re also helping women through your podcast, Badass Women at Any Age. And that’s the topic of our podcast today. It’s a little bit meta, we’re gonna have a podcast talking about podcasts. But particularly today, we want to talk about the way a podcast can be another tool in the marketing of your book. So Bonnie, maybe we could start with you telling us about when you started your podcast and why?

Bonnie: Sure, I had to look it up because I knew you were gonna ask me that. I lost track. I actually started the podcast in September of 2019 and I just completed 68 episodes. I was looking back and scrolling on Apple and looking back at all the episodes and I was like, whoa. When I wrote the book, Not Done Yet!, I really wanted women to find that badass energy and courage that perhaps they had when they were younger. And so there are three sections in the book, and the third section is be your best self. And at one point the book was titled, Badass Women at Any Age. I ended up just making that into one section of the book, but picking up on that theme is when I started the podcast, Badass Women at Any Age, because really it’s any age, it’s not just women over 50. I really wanted to focus on women who have made amazing journeys in their life and career, and how that inspires us, all of us, myself included, who’s interviewing them, but also my listeners, to really take in that inspiration and understand that at any age, you can be a badass. You can really step up and authentically understand who you are and what you have to offer. So that theme in the book is something that I have picked up on in this podcast, and then every week I’m doing these amazing interviews with women who just inspire, week after week, with their stories of how they’ve overcome so much to reach where they are today. And it’s not big celebrity women, Becky, it’s just ordinary women in a variety of careers who have had to face certain obstacles and reach where they are today.

Your favorite episodes on Badass Women at Any Age?

Becky: So Bonnie, among those 68 episodes, do you have any that really stand out to you as being particularly meaningful or inspirational, in case our guests would like to give them a listen?

Bonnie: Whoa, that’s a hard question. So I have five podcasts that I’ve just selected as my top 20 of 2020. And I’m highlighting them now in both the blog and on the podcast itself. So one of them is Jessica Buchanan, who was doing some work in Somalia, and was kidnapped by Somali pirates, and held for ransom. The Navy SEALs needed to go in and rescue her. So now she’s a public speaker. She’s a TEDx speaker, and she does different coaching programs on resilience. But her story was really, really powerful.

Not something that you and I would normally face, but how she changed and what she has done as a result of that experience is definitely one of them. And Lisa Kohn, who survived her childhood growing up in a cult, and how she escaped that type of childhood, which was so addictive. She became a very successful career woman. So, there are really unusual circumstances that some of my guests have had, but nevertheless, they’re still very inspiring.

Becky: Lisa Kohn is definitely a hero of mine. So I’m glad that you had a great conversation with her.

Bonnie: You know her story, right?

Becky: I do. I actually read Lisa’s memoir in its very earliest stages. I printed it off on Microsoft Word and it was like four or five years before the book ever came to print that I had the chance to read her story. So it was very powerful. 

How are you using your podcast as a vehicle to promote your books?

Becky: So Bonnie, let’s shift and talk a little bit about how you’re using the podcast as a vehicle to promote your latest book and in what way you create connections for the book through the podcast?

Bonnie: One of the things that I found most valuable when I was promoting my first book, The Politics of Promotion, was using the radio show that I had at the time to invite certain guests, career-related women. I found that by having them on my radio show at the time, I was making connections with women who I ordinarily would meet. They were then very willing to write endorsements for my book or be interviewed. So I took that lesson, certainly from this podcast as well. Now, the women that I’m interviewing, I had already written the book when I started the podcast. But now I find that developing these relationships expands my network. That women who are on this podcast understand the theme and the importance of talking about these stories and have helped me to promote the book. The other thing that I find is really great is that then people reciprocate. You invite them on your podcast and they reciprocate, or vice versa. So that widens your exposure and your message out there. The more podcasts you can do, the more you talk about your work and your podcast, the more exposure you have.

Becky: That’s a really great point. So when you invite people on your podcast, and we were talking before we started recording how it seems like everyone has a podcast these days, so that cross-pollination of audience is really helpful for expanding beyond the people who already know you. 

What challenges have you faced with your podcast?

Becky: So Bonnie, what are some of the greatest challenges that you faced with this podcast?

Bonnie: In the beginning, I had a challenge of finding the right platform, finding a platform that was affordable, professional, and I knew that I wanted it to sound as professional as possible, and not sound like I was in my closet somewhere recording. So it took a couple of tries and then I found my current producer, and they’re terrific. So that was the first challenge. 

Then I would say the second one is finding guests and vetting guests if you can. And understanding who would make a good guest, what their story is, and how it would fit. Scheduling them sometimes, I’m doing all of that myself, so that becomes a bit of a challenge and it consumes a lot of my time. 

Because I’ve done a radio show for years, I guess, I already knew that it takes a lot of time. Though I do not script my interviews, it takes time to pull it together and to end up leveraging the podcast the way you would want. So the only part of my podcast that I do script is the intro and the outro. And that’s where I do my self-promotion. I’ll either tie the topic of the guest to my book, or I will talk about the topic of the book Not Done Yet! and you can find a download of the book discussion guide, anything that would help to promote the book. Especially in the outro, we’ll talk about different events that I am doing, that will help promote book sales. So I had a virtual book event at a local bookstore, a virtual event, or I’m doing different events for women’s organizations, etc. But I will always talk about that, put the links in the show notes, and refer everybody to the show notes. That’s the best advertising and the best way I can leverage without detracting from the content of the podcast itself.

Becky: So that’s a really important point, Bonnie, that you’re using your intro and your outro to talk about your book and your services. And you’re allowing the content of the conversation with each guest to stand on its own. 

What recommendations do you have for someone considering starting their own podcast?

Becky: So I’m wondering, Bonnie, if authors are listening today, and they are considering starting their own podcast as a means of getting their ideas out into the world, what recommendations would you have for them?

Bonnie: That’s a tough one because, like you said, everybody is doing a podcast. Because it does take time and it does take a lot of work, I would say make sure that you find a topic for your podcast that you’re passionate about, that you will bring a lot of energy to, especially if you’re doing it every week. Because otherwise, it’s going to seem more like a chore, more like a burden. Like though this is what I’ve got to do this week, I have to say that, yet, each Thursday when I do my recordings, I look forward to the conversations and I look forward to getting to know more about my guests. And because I don’t script it, sometimes it’s pretty surprising, but I think that finding that topic is something that could be really important to begin with.

Action Steps

Becky: That’s helpful. Thank you, Bonnie. So as we come to the end of our conversation, one of the things that we always do on The Book Marketing Action Podcast is give our listeners a couple of actions that they can implement right away. So I’m wondering, Bonnie, if we can identify together some next steps that people could take as a result of listening to today’s podcast?

Bonnie: 

First of all, do your homework, reach out to different podcast hosts, and find out what platform they’re on, if they like it, how’s it going, and talk to them about some of their challenges. The best way they found to market their podcast, the best way they found to get it on there. I think doing that homework will give you some direction to where you eventually want to go to position your podcast.Find a good partner like Weaving Influence to help you promote your podcast. I find it takes enough time and energy to do the podcast, I certainly don’t have the time and energy to get it on Instagram and to get it on Twitter and all my different social channels. So it really is helpful. And in finding the right producer, it’s taken me a while to find a good producer, but they do promo videos for me. They are my partner in helping me to build my platform for the podcast, they do great editing, they do the show notes. A lot of different podcast producers only do the recording and the editing. So I just found that having a partner in all of it, if you can find that, it’s good.ResourcesLearn more about Bonnie Marcus and the work she does, here. Learn more and listen to her podcast episodes. Check out her books, Not Done Yet! and The Politics of Promotion, here. Connect with Bonnie on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. 

If you found value in today’s episode, we hope you’ll take a moment to share it with someone else who might benefit from it. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to cover, please email Becky Robinson here.

Click here for our free resources. 

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review. 

Click here to tweet about this episode!

The post Episode 50: Using your podcast as a vehicle to market your book appeared first on Weaving Influence.

The Power of Podcasts And Why They Should Be in Your Media Arsenal

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In a world where traditional media—TV, newspapers, print, and even digital publications—are seeing massive drop-offs, podcasts continue to rise above the rest. According to a recent Nielson report, podcasts continue to grow by more than 20%, year over year. 

Why?

Podcasts offer listeners what traditional media cannot: the ability to multitask. With the ability to listen to a podcast anywhere, anytime, podcast listeners can tune into their favorite shows during morning commutes, while performing household chores, and while at work. Moreover, it’s easier for podcast hosts to pivot based on listener feedback because of their episodic nature, thus making them more adaptable, versatile, and customized. 

Despite the trends actively pointing us in the direction of podcasts as a key content marketing tactic, it is still a medium that is vastly underutilized. 

As you build your media relations and content marketing strategies, here are three reasons to consider adding guest appearances on podcasts to the top of your list.

Broaden your audience and exposure

Blogging and guest posting on the same platforms over and over again rarely offers the opportunity to reach new audiences, due to their predetermined topics and audiences.

However, unlike most traditional media, podcasts can be both narrowly focused and, at the same time, quite broad as far as topics, guests, and listeners. They are an excellent way for persons mildly interested in a topic to further explore with minimal commitments. And, with more than 1.9 million unique podcasts, the opportunities to expand your message are nearly endless. 

Create real-world connections

Podcast interviews are often real, up-close-and-personal conversations. These conversations allow you to show up authentically and share your real-world experiences that may go beyond your key message. This is beneficial to you, as consumers are more likely to become fans/loyalists when they can connect with the person behind the book or brand.

Generate brand-new content for your website and social channels

Podcast interviews are an excellent way to breathe new life into your content marketing strategies. Pull audio clips to create teasers that are perfect for social media, create quote graphics for monthly email newsletters, and expand on specific topics covered in the episode through long-form blog posts and articles. Most importantly, leverage full interviews and video clips on your speaker and media web pages and in your speakers’ reels to boost credibility.  

Podcasts are an excellent and pain-free way to boost your SEO, social proof, and expand your message’s reach. With the platform growing in popularity and accessibility, now is the perfect time to consider adding guest appearances on podcasts to your content and media outreach arsenal.

If you’re interested in exploring how Weaving Influence can help broaden your exposure through podcast pitching, send an email to Becky at becky@weavinginfluence.com

The post The Power of Podcasts And Why They Should Be in Your Media Arsenal appeared first on Weaving Influence.