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Episode 60: Sabrina Horn’s Author Journey

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Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. In this episode, we are joined by Sabrina Horn—CEO of HORN Strategy and author of Make It, Don’t Fake It: Leading with Authenticity for Real Business Success.

About Sabrina Horn

Becky: I have the privilege of talking with my friend and client, Sabrina Horn. We happen to be recording this in early spring, but this will be live on the day of her actual publication date for her book. So we’re doing this as a way of celebrating, and as a way of you hearing about her book on the very first day that it’s available on Amazon. I personally can’t wait to hold mine in my hands. 

So Sabrina, could you introduce yourself and talk about your work? And tell us about your book as we start today’s conversation?

Sabrina: Sure and thank you, Becky, for having me on your podcast. I love it! It’s been an interesting journey to get to this point. Prior to writing a book, I was running a public relations company for 24 years, which I started when I was about 29 years old. After selling it, and working for the company that bought my company, I decided it was time to reassess and do some different things. I thought, “What better than to write a book?” ‒ in part about my career and the mistakes I made, and the lessons I learned, but also to help others avoid those mistakes and to help other entrepreneurs and executives run their businesses with integrity. That’s really the central message to the book, Make It, Don’t Fake It: Leading with Authenticity for Real Business Success.

Becky: I love how easily your book title rolls off your tongue, and I bet you’ve had to practice that.

Sabrina: Yeah, sometimes I mix it up and I say, fake it, don’t make it. It’s like no, no, it’s the other way around.

Why is writing a book at this point in your life and career so important to you?

Becky: That’s so fun. So Sabrina, can we dig a little deeper on why writing a book at this point in your life and career is so important to you?

Sabrina: Sure. So in addition to writing the book, I also decided to start a new consulting practice, because you can’t be idle in life. And that consulting practice is all about helping entrepreneurs navigate the early stages of their startup businesses, from how they go to market, to how they hire a leadership team, how they get venture capital, and other things in between. So the book is really in parallel with that, in terms of helping entrepreneurs and executives lead with authenticity and integrity. 

Why now? I think that the mantra, “fake it ‘til you make it,” honestly, is the worst business advice I’ve ever heard. I think right now in the world that we live in, making a hard U-turn back to integrity, and dispelling the merits of that horrible mantra are absolutely paramount. So coming from the perch of public relations, most people would think a message of integrity and authenticity coming from a PR person is kind of a joke. But actually, public relations done right is all about the truth, and about authenticity and getting to the truth. So I’m conveying this message and providing this guidance and the strategies from the perch of my career of a person who had to deal with fakery all the time. And, ultimately lead with integrity and in my own business, and in my own profession.

What insights have you uncovered along your journey?

Becky: Sabrina, that is so inspiring. If we have listeners who are aspiring toward entrepreneurship and thinking about writing a book in the context of a new business, you could have no better role model than Sabrina. So another plug to go out and get Sabrina’s book today. 

So now what we want to do, Sabrina, is focus a little bit on this author journey. We have authors who listen to this podcast, and I’m curious if you can share some of the insights that you’ve uncovered along the journey, what surprised you, what’s been exciting, all of those ups and downs of your author journey thus far?

Sabrina: I’m a first time author and it’s a whole new landscape for me. I really thought it was important to get as much help as possible to make the book a success, right? I mean, why write a book and watch it, if you can’t put everything behind it and make it successful, to achieve your goals with it. So part of it is really understanding the process, but having the right kind of marketing in all aspects, to get the word out to as many people as possible through the right channels at the right time. And all the while you’re trying to achieve certain kinds of interim business goals, which to me, as I understood them, were the pre-order campaign, and then the actual launch of the book when it comes out, the day that it comes out. So there’s definitely some nuances in that process. I think my biggest challenge has been managing, getting the excitement around a pre-order campaign for a book that people can’t get yet, and managing the potential fatigue that people might feel like, “Oh, there’s another post from Sabrina. There she goes again,” and having people excited about it and anticipating it.

Becky: That’s such an interesting observation, Sabrina. I think having partnered with authors along the journey, one of the things that I would encourage you with today, if you don’t mind, can I give you a bit of advice? What I’ve noticed is that authors always think that they’re posting too much, and that people are going to get tired. Then I’ve worked with some authors who will say, “My book’s been out for months. I’ve been posting for months.” And then someone will say to them, “What, you have a book? I didn’t even hear.” So I think we always overestimate people’s attention to what we post or their fatigue with what we post. Now, it makes sense to me, Sabrina, that you might feel tired, “Oh, here I go again, posting.” But I think probably our audiences are kinder, and noticing less than we actually think they are.

Sabrina: Right? Well, I mean, it’s sort of like going back to my days running a PR firm, like, public relations was 100% of what I did, but it was maybe 5% of what my client did. And same here, this book is, at this time, basically, almost 100% of what I’m doing. So that’s all I see. But in reality, everybody that’s learning by hearing and reading about my book, it’s what, 30 seconds of their day. So I get it, it’s just a balancing act. 

I would add one other thing, and that is, as a business person, you spend your career trying to develop a big footprint and get big deals and bring home the bacon and fry it up in the pan. And now with a book, you’re not bringing home $100,000 deals necessarily in book sales. You’re selling one copy of your book to one person, and hope that they’ll spread the word. So it makes you appreciate the value of one person so much more, and the effort that it really takes to sell one book to one person. It also makes you appreciate the value of bulk orders, which is something that I’m also working on.

How have you applied strategy to this process yourself?

Becky: Indeed, it’s definitely faster to sell 100 copies at a time than it is to sell one at a time. So I know because you have this background in PR, Sabrina, and because you’re a consultant now to entrepreneurs, that you have a strategic mind, and I’m curious about how you’ve applied strategy to this process yourself?

Sabrina: That’s an interesting question. I think the strategy comes from thinking that every move I make is an anticipation of the next move and that there’s a sequence to all this. And so if the end goal is XYZ, then you have to work your way back to today and what are the steps you have to take to serve? Build that snowball effect, that crescendo of excitement, and then the big pop the week of your launch. And you can’t just fly blind, like you’ve got to think about there is a strategy that you have to thread together and piece together.

What do you see as the most important things that you’re going to do between now and the day that your book goes live?

Becky: So, looking ahead to the future, this podcast is going to air on your launch day. And so looking back, if everyone can take that journey with us looking back, we’re recording this about two months before launch. So what do you see Sabrina as the most important things that you’re going to do between now, the day that we’re recording, and the day that this goes live?

Sabrina: Yeah, I think the most important thing is two things. For me, personally, I’ve been a little bit quiet since I left my job in 2018, to kind of take a break. I’ve been off the grid. I’ve been off the grid since basically 2018, and COVID, of course, everybody was kind of off the grid, because there was no grid. So for me, what is really important is getting back in the flow, reconnecting with people, and those individually customized emails, to 500 or 600 people to tell them what I’m doing and to get them to help me share the news about my book, are important because they’re also helping me reconnect with people. As much as I’m doing podcasts with you, and interviews with you and other people, I’m also doing Zoom calls with people, my friends, who I haven’t talked to in a couple of years or more. So that is really, really important, because that is the power of the network. Like, you can never underestimate the power of your network as an author. And, dialing that up again, is something I work on every day, I chip away at it every day. And then I think of new people that I can add to that list that I then email the following day. 

The second thing that is critical between now and then is getting those bulk orders and kind of lining up opportunities to get them. I’m experiencing some challenges there because people want to read the book before they want to sign up for a bulk order. And so in those cases, I’m sending them a galley copy through a PDF and making sure that I trust them enough not to share that PDF with other people. I’m also booking myself as a speaker for events that are coming up after the launch, to sort of continue the love and the journey beyond the day of the book launch, and in doing so I’m hoping that, as a speaker, people will be interested in a bulk buy. So I think those two ends of the spectrum from feeding the network to then extracting something out of it, is my focus.

What challenges have you faced so far?

Becky: That’s really helpful. So on a not so happy note, I know, it’s always helpful to talk about the frustrations that we experienced on the journey, because it can help those who might be following behind us to know what to expect and maybe avoid some frustrations. Would you be willing, Sabrina, to share a few of the challenges that you face so far?

Sabrina: Yeah, I think, personally, it’s talking to someone and they’re like, “You know what, I’d love to buy a couple. Let’s do a bulk order.” And then they just want like two or three copies of the book, and I’m like, “Okay, how about 100? How about 200 books? You want 200 books?” So, that has been a frustration. But that’s the reality, right? One person doesn’t need 200 books, and there’s only so many people they’re going to send them to at Christmas time. So that’s been a frustration.

I think the other part of it is kind of left brain, right brain side of thinking strategically. For example, in writing an article and creating content and having it be thoughtful and targeted to the audience that it’s for CEOs or entrepreneurs, and then going back to the very tactical aspect of making sure each person has gotten their galley copy, print or PDF, or did you get the headshot? Did you get my bio? And to me, that’s a bit of busy work, but it’s all part of the process.

Becky: So balancing that strategic approach with just the reality of the tactical requirements of launching a book. That is a very helpful insight. 

Action Steps

Becky: So Sabrina, we always wrap up the podcast with a couple of action steps that our authors can take to move forward to market their books. 

Explore the idea of bulk orders. I think the most obvious action step that I’d like to challenge our listeners with today is related to this idea of bulk buys. Sabrina, you shared with us a lot about your own approach to asking for bulk buys, and so the first action step I have is if you are an author who has a book that it would make sense for people to buy in bulk, if you’re a fiction author listening, that might not be as appropriate. But if you’re the author of a book that could be available and valuable for people to buy in bulk, make an ask. Think of one person you can email today to ask for a bulk purchase. And like Sabrina said, it can be frustrating. You want to sell 100, but most people might want to buy two or three, think about the correct quantity that that person may be able to buy and be willing to make the ask for a bulk purchase.Reconnect with someone. My second action step that I’m taking away, Sabrina, is this idea that you shared about the power of your network and this individual outreach that you’ve been doing to reconnect with people. So if you’re listening today, and you’re an author at any stage of the journey, whether you’re preparing for a launch or after your launch, why don’t you think of one person that you’ve been out of touch with and look for a genuine reason to reconnect and, if possible, be able to share part of your journey as an author? 

So what do you think about those, Sabrina? Anything you’d add?

Sabrina: No, those are two really important recommendations and takeaways and those are two things I didn’t really fully grasp when I started this process, and right now they are the most important. So that’s right on the money.

Resources For anyone who’s a leader who wants to live a life of integrity, what a joy to be able to read about Sabrina’s journey and the insights that she has for leaders. Get your copy of Make It, Don’t Fake It: Leading with Authenticity for Real Business Success, here. If you want to make a bulk order at a discounted price, learn more here. Click here to learn more about Sabrina and the work she does in the world. Connect with Sabrina on LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. 

If you found value in today’s episode, we hope you’ll take a moment to share it with someone else who might benefit from it. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to cover, please email Becky Robinson here.

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The post Episode 60: Sabrina Horn’s Author Journey appeared first on Weaving Influence.

Episode 59: Mark Miller’s Author Journey

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Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. In this episode, we are joined by Mark Miller—Author and Vice President of High Performance Leadership at Chick-fil-A.

Today’s episode is continuing the author journey series, based on Becky’s book, which is scheduled for release from Berrett Koehler publishers in April 2022. The book is called Reach: Creating Lasting Impact for Your Book, Message, or Cause. 

About Mark Miller

Becky: The interview that you’re about to listen to is a part of my author journey series. I’ve been working on the first draft of my book, due to be released in April 2022 by Berrett Koehler publishers. My book is Reach: Creating Lasting Impact for Your Book, Message, or Cause, and throughout the process of writing my first draft I’ve been interviewing some past clients, authors, and nonprofit leaders to get their insights on my topics. I was so excited to have the opportunity to reconnect with Mark Miller. Mark Miller was an early client of my company, we started to work together in 2012 and our team served him through eight or nine book launches. We’re anticipating supporting him with the launch of his newest book, which is going to be released in 2022. I was so happy to catch up with Mark and I think you’ll enjoy this thoughtful conversation. 

So I want to let you know a little bit about Mark. He is the Vice President of High Performance Leadership at Chick-fil-A. He’s also the author of many best selling books, including The Secret, The Heart of Leadership, and Chess Not Checkers. His new book is coming with BenBella Press in January of 2022.

How did you measure your goal of reaching leaders with your content?

Becky: So Mark, when we were working together, you wanted to quantify a goal about how many leaders to reach with your content. Can you tell me about that big goal and how you’ve measured it?

Mark: Well, as you’ll recall, it’s always been an aspiration to reach as many leaders as possible. I mean that’s actually why I’m doing what I do. Even though some people still to this day, look at me and go, that’s kind of a strange goal. I feel like I’m on the planet to encourage and equip leaders, and I can’t encourage and equip anyone I can’t reach. So reach has always been a desire and a quest. 

As you and your team tried to help me figure out, there are a lot of ways to measure that. And my scorecard continues to morph. I’d like to reach 100 million leaders before I die. In fact, I think I’ve got something written down about 2030 to add value to 100 million leaders. And, I know books are important, but you can’t reach 100 million people with the book, more than likely. I don’t think there is anything other than the Bible that’s probably sold 100 million copies. So I think the books are a piece of that reach, but social media is going to have to be the anchor.

And as you recall, we’ve tried to look at that, almost like a sales funnel, where you have Twitter and Instagram and Tik Tok, and whatever you want to put at the top of that funnel to get people in, and then you’re probably gonna get a smaller percentage of those men and women who will actually go to your website, or read your blog post, or download your free resources, or purchase resources that you have for sale. But for me, my scorecard is still a composite of all of those things, and as you recall, we have toyed with and continue to tweak this idea of weighting those things, which I know this may be over complicating it, but it’s not the same for somebody to read a blog post as to buy a resource. So if you’re really trying to have impact, that’s our latest quest, is do you actually assign point value to the different levels of impact or engagement? So still working on the scorecard, but the ultimate end is to reach people.

Becky: Any idea how many you’ve reached so far?

Mark: Well, we had some years when we were probably reaching 8, 9, 10 million people. So, we haven’t done as much recently. I don’t know if you know, I kind of went dark for a little while, for a lot of reasons, but hoping to relaunch a refreshed brand, maybe in the next 30-45 days.

What’s the difference between reaching people online and in person?

Becky: That’s exciting stuff, Mark. Can you talk a little bit about the difference between reaching people online and reaching people in person, and how you feel about that? 

Mark: Yeah, that’s a fantastic question. I want to add value, and if I can add value in any arena, I’m up for it. I think that based on some of the skills that I’ve been able to develop over the years, I might have a higher probability of impact if I’m in a room with somebody than if they’re reading a tweet halfway around the world. But I’m not quite so sure that’s true anymore. That’s probably my personal paradigm. I’ve got a few anecdotes that make me think that might not be the case. 

One story you’ve heard before, it was right after I got started. This was 8 or 10 years ago in the whole social media space, and I got pushed and pulled there by my team. They actually got me a Facebook account and brought the password into my office and said, “You’re now on Facebook.” I mean, I sort of got pushed into it, and they told me I needed to start blogging and tweeting. And I said, “Well, I got the blog, but why should I do Twitter?” And they said, “We’ll take it on faith.” And I said, “You know, I’ve got faith in a lot of things, but I’m not sure Twitter’s one of them.” And they said, “No, you’ve got to do it on faith.” And so I remember again, you’ve probably heard this story. I had been writing blogs for about two weeks. I was doing three a week and those first couple weeks went really well, from my perspective, because I had 30 years of content built up so it was easy to write 8 or 10 blog posts that I thought were really good. And then I got to week three, week four, and it was like, oh and I wrote a post, and I said, I’m not sure this is that good. I mean, it didn’t feel as good as the stuff I’ve done in those first few weeks. I had a moment where I needed to decide what to do. I remember you and others had coached me that it’s about authenticity. It’s about transparency. Are you telling people what you’re thinking about? How are you failing? And I said, “Okay, it’s probably not, A work, might be B- work, but I’m gonna send it anyway.” And within 24 hours, that blog post had been re-posted, retweeted to about 400,000 people. And that was the moment I began to understand the power on a big scale. 

And then a smaller example, not too long after that. One night about midnight, I got a message from somebody saying, “Thank you, thank you, thank you, for helping me start my day. You’ve inspired my entire team.” And I’m thinking, it’s midnight. She said, “Good morning,” what’s going on? And of course, you had taught me a little bit about how to do some analytic discovery and she was in China or Thailand or somewhere. They had started their day with my content and so even though I want to be in the room with people, and I believe I can have more impact, I’m not sure that’s the world we live in anymore. I think I can probably have more impact if I can continue to develop the requisite skills to touch people through social media.

What is your point of view related to spacing out book launches? 

Becky: Those are some amazing stories, Mark. I’m going to shift a little bit. As I was starting to put together some thoughts for the book, one of the things I was thinking about was these conversations that you and I had about spacing out the launches of your books and products over the years, because we together launched about eight of your books, I believe. I’m curious if you’d be willing to share with our listeners about your point of view related to the spacing out of launches?

Mark: I’m not sure my point of view on this is going to be helpful, because I don’t know the right answer. Let’s go back to I’m doing this to serve leaders and so when I’ve got resources that I think will serve leaders, I want to release them to the world. Now, I have talked to many authors, and many publishers, and there is a conventional wisdom I would say, in the traditional publishing world, that if you’re doing a book a year, you’re oversaturated. But that’s not universally held. I would rather say I’ve got a new resource that’ll serve a leader, and the publisher says, “yeah, but you’re going to cannibalize sales of your previous resources, and you’ll never reach the peak sales.” Well, what I have always wanted to believe is that new resources would actually help the backlist, and I would say we’ve had mixed success with that. 

I mean, I could sell more books if I spaced them out. But book sales are just one indication of success. Again, if it’s about reach, if it’s about impact, if it’s about serving leaders, maybe it’s that new content that’s going to serve a new segment of the market or serve leaders that weren’t served by previous titles, because many of my titles are relatively narrow. A book on engagement, or a book on creating a leadership culture, or a book on building teams. Well, if you’re not trying to build a team, or if your team’s great, and it’s two years before I share something with you on engagement, maybe I could have served you earlier. So I don’t know the right answer. I just want to get resources out into the world.

What has writing and publishing books over the past decade taught you about creating reach for your work?

Becky: Actually, I think that’s a really helpful perspective, Mark. So I’m curious if you can share a little bit more about what writing and publishing books over the past decade or more has taught you about creating reach for your work?

Mark: You know, it’s actually been two decades now. When we did, Ken Blanchard and I, it’s not quite been 20 years, but it’s been 20 years since we started the research that became The Secret. I learned this from Berrett-Kohler and you’ve probably said it as well, I think books are seeds and if you don’t plant seeds, you’re never going to get a tree. If you don’t get a tree, you’re never going to get fruit, and not all the seeds are going to produce fruit. Not all of them are even going to produce trees. Right? Some of them get returned to the publisher, which breaks my heart.

But a book, I think, does a couple things. One, is it forces the author to codify their point of view, which I think matters. I think there are a lot of smart people in the world that have never organized their thoughts in a way that they are transferable. There’s been stuff written over the years about having a teachable point of view, you can have a point of view, but is it a teachable point of view? And I won’t say that everyone that writes a book instantaneously has a teachable point of view, but I think they’re a step closer, because they had to organize it, they had to illustrate it, they had to distill it down to something that they could put on paper. So I think that’s one thing it does for you, which helps reach, right? Because if you have a codified body of work, if you have a teachable point of view, whether someone else buys the book or not, they may be able to share that with someone else. “Let me tell you what I learned.” “Let me tell you about something I read.” So I think that’s one great reason to write a book. 

Another, and you’re about to experience this with your new book, your IQ is going to go up 50 points in the eyes of the world when you’re a published author, which of course, is nonsense. I mean, in my case, it is nonsense. Yours may really go up 50 points. But people give you higher standing, they give you more credibility, they give what you say more validity. It’s a little bit scary. I mean, I’ll even have people want to talk to me about topics I’ve not written on and I’m really quick to tell people, that’s not my area. I’m not an expert on that. I could introduce you to an expert. I’ve literally had people say yes, but you’re an author, like answer my question, you’re an author. And so be careful with that, I would say to your listeners. But it helps with reach, because when you show up, and you’re a published author, people listen more intently to what you have to say. So those are a couple of things that I think books actually help an author with reach, beyond the obvious that somebody bought the book.

Becky: Well, and Mark, I have to admit that I use that idea of books or seeds in my work all the time. I met with a woman yesterday morning, who’s written her first book, it’s a Bible study. I was encouraging her to give away as many as you can. Books are seeds. If they’re not out there, they can’t do the job they’re meant to do. So thank you for that. Because every time I use it, it’s a nod to you.

Mark: Well, and let me say this, as far as giving away books, I appreciate that you’re encouraging that. I’ve always felt like I’m an outlier on that, and thankfully, I’m in a position I can do this. I’m not assuming every author can do this, but I love to give away books. And historically, my publisher, they’ve actually said that I’m crazy. And I said, “Well, let’s don’t debate that I’m crazy. I know, I’m crazy.” Remember, my objective is to serve leaders, and if they don’t have the book, I can’t serve leaders. Now, if they buy them, that’s great, because I’m gonna give the profits to charity, that’s great, too. But my historical practice has been, you better give away at least 10% of what you want to sell. Last I heard, they said we’re chasing 2 million books in the world. And I wish I’d have kept up with it. But I have given away tens of thousands of books. It wouldn’t surprise me if I’d given away more than 100,000 books over 20 years. We give away a lot of books, but again, I think they’re seeds. And when somebody reads a book, they may buy 100 copies for their organization or they may give it as Christmas presents to 20 of their friends. And even if they don’t do that, you’ve hopefully had an impact on their life.

What are some challenges you’ve faced along the way?

Becky: So Mark, I’m wondering if you could share with our listeners about some challenges you faced along the way?

Mark: Well, it’s hard to sell books, and it’s frustrating to me as an author. I would say to any author because you’re writing the book because you want to share it, and I just think that’s been a challenge and one that I would say, I’ve tried not to succumb to, and you’ll know this from the conversations we’ve had over the years. If something doesn’t work, let’s try something else. I don’t know that we’ve ever done two book launches alike. In part, because I was always saying, we’ve got to sell more books, we’ve got to sell more books, and I’ve had conversations with publishers and other authors and they’ll say, “Well, I got 500 likes on Instagram on my book summary,” or whatever. I said, “Well, I’m proud of your likes, but aren’t you trying to sell books?” So I think that gets lost sometimes, and that’s been a challenge for me. I think some of it’s an industry situation and where the book world is today. I think part of it is me as an author having unrealistic expectations. When somebody comes back and says, “We sold 100,000 copies.” I said, “We’ll have a party when we get to a million, right?” I mean, I’m not excited about selling 100,000 books. And they’ll say, “Well, the average book only sells 3,000 or 4,000 copies,” and I’m going, “We’re not trying to write average books. We’re not trying to help 200 people.” So, I think, for me, the biggest challenge is the challenge you live with every day, it’s just hard to sell books, for many, many, many reasons. 

That’s probably another whole podcast on all the reasons it’s hard to sell books. But I think for authors that believe passionately in their content and their message, you just have to accept that challenge. And you have to keep finding new ways to try to reach. I mean, I’ve got an upcoming book and we’re now talking about, do we include a free digital, if you buy the hardback, you get the digital free? Or if you buy the leader’s journal, do you get a free assessment? I mean, these aren’t things that other people haven’t tried. These aren’t new ideas. But we’re now saying, what are other people doing to try and sell books? We’ve talked about, do you do enhanced ebooks and embed video, all this stuff? Some of it is probably gimmicks and gadgets, but if it helps sell books, I’m up for it. To me, the challenge is, how do you get people to buy books in today’s world? And I’m looking forward to reading your book, I’m assuming it’s gonna have some more answers in there to help us do that.

What has surprised you along your author journey?

Becky: Let’s do a bit of context setting, Mark, you’re saying that selling books is really hard. And you have an executive level position at one of the most iconic brand companies in the United States. So for those of you who might be listening, who are new or emerging authors, I want you to let that sink in. Because if it’s hard for Mark Miller, those of us who are really just emerging as authors, need to realize it’s going to be hard for us too, and it doesn’t mean that you’re doing something wrong, it just means that it’s difficult. 

So Mark, what are some surprises that you’ve seen along the journey? You mentioned some with your earlier stories about the ability of content to reach people around the world and have an impact. What else has surprised you?

Mark: I mentioned the fact that people are gonna think you’re smarter once you’re published, that surprised me. I don’t think that I necessarily think that about authors, maybe because I know too much. They may be people who’ve worked really, really hard to create a book, but I don’t attribute any enhanced IQ because they went through that journey. So that was a surprise. 

Another surprise is how hard it is to sell books. It’s just been surprising, particularly when people tell you that the book is amazing. “It changed my life.” “It changed my organization.” It’s like, “Oh, yeah, that’s great. I mean, that’s fantastic.” And then you’ll go out and you’ll sell 10,000, 20,000, 50,000 books of a book that is potentially life changing, organization changing, it’s like we ought to sell millions of a book like that, right? If it’s good, then why can’t we sell it? So that has been not only the challenge we faced, it has been my biggest surprise over the last 20 years as an author. And I actually think it’s getting harder. There’s more noise, there are more channels, there are more distractions, I think attention spans are shorter. People are now asking me, can I create some two minute videos that will change lives? And I’m going, “I don’t know that I’m that good to create two minute videos that will change lives.” I mean, somebody can probably do that. So maybe the rate of change, the acceleration in the rate of change has probably been a surprise to me. 

I was surprised that the posters we bought for the airport promotion didn’t help us sell books. That was very expensive, by the way. It was one of those things where we were trying because it’s like, well, let’s try to sell some books a different way. It surprised me that we didn’t sell a lot of books, with the big posters hanging all over the Atlanta airport, which my friends liked. They all took pictures of it and sent me pictures of the posters, but I don’t think any of them bought a book.

Any parting advice or wisdom? 

Becky: I’m wondering if you have any parting advice or wisdom for authors or aspiring authors who might later listen to this interview?

Mark: The world needs your content. I mean if you’ve got an idea, if you’ve got a concept, if you’ve got content that you think will serve people, whether that’s one hundred people, one thousand people, or millions of people, you need to do the book. You need to write. Then do what you can, with Becky’s help, to extend your reach. But that’s not your first responsibility. Your first responsibility is to get the book finished, because the world needs it.

Action Steps

Becky: I want to leave you with a few action steps that we do on every episode of the Book Marketing Action podcast, and part of my conversation with Mark centered around the idea of creating metrics. How are you going to measure success? How are you going to measure the reach of your ideas? 

So what I’d like to encourage you to do, is to think about what success looks like for you. Maybe open up a Google doc or get a piece of paper and a pen, and in light of what Mark said about his scorecard, think about what a scorecard looks like for your book and your success. As a second action item, I would encourage you to take a look at the various resources that Mark has created that help to expand the learning from his books, and you can find those at tmarkmiller.com. Mark has a variety of field guides, quickstart guides, and assessments that go along with each of his titles. I would encourage you to take a look at those and to consider what else you might do as it relates to creating complimentary resources to go with your books. ResourcesLearn more about Mark Miller and the work he does in the world. Get started with his free ebook, Leaders Go First: 10 Ways You Can Set The Pace For Those You Lead, here. Connect with Mark Miller on LinkedIn. 

If you found value in today’s episode, we hope you’ll take a moment to share it with someone else who might benefit from it. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to cover, please email Becky Robinson here.

Click here for our free resources. 

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review. 

Click here to tweet about this episode!

The post Episode 59: Mark Miller’s Author Journey appeared first on Weaving Influence.

Episode 58: Jon Gordon’s Author Journey

Photo by Bartolomiej Pietrzyk / 123rf.com

Click here to listen on your device and subscribe! 

Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. In this episode, we are joined by Jon Gordon—11x Best-selling author of 23 books, speaker, positive leader. 

Today’s episode is continuing the author journey series, based on Becky’s book, which is scheduled for release from Berrett Koehler publishers in April 2022. The book is called Reach: Creating Lasting Impact for Your Book, Message, or Cause. 

About Jon Gordon

Becky: So the interview that you’re about to listen to with Jon Gordon is one I recorded as part of my book writing process. I interviewed Jon to talk about what he’s learned about creating lasting impact for his books and ideas in the world. Jon Gordon is an author of best-selling books and a keynote speaker, and he’s worked with fortune 500 companies, professional and college sports teams, school districts, hospitals, and nonprofits. He’s authored more than 23 books, and his timeless classic, The Energy Bus, has sold over 2 million copies. So Jon knows quite a lot about creating lasting impact for his work, and I think you’ll find this conversation to be really valuable to listen to and enjoy.

What has been the most important tactic in gaining reach for your books, ideas, and work?

Becky: Hey, Jon, thanks so much for taking some time to talk with me today. I’d really love to learn from the great success you’ve had authoring over 16 books. So, Jon, I’m curious what has been the most important tactic for you in gaining reach for your books, ideas, and work in the world?

Jon: Hey, Becky. I think the number one thing that we’ve done over the years is my newsletter. We have a weekly positive tip. I started it in 2002, right? And so years ago, I’ve been doing this newsletter every week for let’s see, 18 or 19 years now, and so every year, every week, over and over again, the repetition of it, more and more followers, more and more readers, people share the newsletter to others. And over time, that consistency, that focus, that value add to people, sharing constant value is something that people share with others, and it grows and grows. So I would say that newsletter is probably the best thing I’ve done. 

Also, I would just say showing up every day, and doing the work. Sharing a quote every day on LinkedIn, Twitter, or Instagram. Sharing encouragement, providing value, sharing content to hopefully help people. Doing it over and over again, as I said, every day, every week, for the last 18 years, over time you get, reach doesn’t happen overnight, but the reach then exponentially grows and you reach more and more people. When you show up and do the work you earn trust that way. And then when people trust you, they show up and they tell more people about you.

Becky: Wow. So if we could just dial that back and slow it down a little bit. You started in 2002?

Jon: Yes, 2002.

Becky: Yeah, I’m guessing that was before a lot of thought leaders were out there doing newsletters. So did that predate your writing and publishing any books, Jon?

Jon: It did. So when I decided I wanted to write and speak, I knew I wanted to do this. I started with a newsletter, and initially it was a fax. I was sending out faxes to people, getting their fax number, then I would get their emails and I would actually send emails out, and it was not really professional. I would write something up and then just email it. And I think it was like 5 people initially, then 20, then 100, and eventually, we started using Constant Contact, which was just beginning at that time. And no one was really doing newsletters back then. There were no blogs, there was no social media, it was the way to reach people was this weekly, positive tip. Now, it seems like everyone has a newsletter. Everyone’s on social media. But back then it was very early on and I was just beginning.

Becky: So tell me about where your newsletter list is right now.

Jon: 250,000, I would say. 

Becky: Amazing, and they get a weekly, positive tip from you?

Jon: Right. We do a weekly positive tip and then, mid week, we’ll do a promo for something that we have upcoming, an event, a training, or a launch of a new book. Our power of positive summit is this week, so we’ll be promoting that. So we’ve added that promo piece and people don’t seem to mind that. We don’t want to bombard people with too many things, so we try to keep it with a newsletter and one promo per week. We started the promo about two years ago. So for years it was just the weekly newsletter, and we started the promo because we had so many things going on that we couldn’t fit it all into just the newsletter. So we added the promo piece and I think that’s worked out well, as well.

How did you convert people who saw you speak into staying connected through your newsletter?

Becky: So I know Jon, that you’ve also been, prior to COVID, traveling a lot and speaking a lot. In what way did you convert the people who saw you speak in person to stay connected to you long term through the newsletter?

Jon: When we’re on stage or giving a talk or something like that it was always “Hey, sign up for my newsletter.” There’s always a PowerPoint slide at the end giving a contact information for people to sign up. We do a free seven step action plan for people to sign up, so we’re always offering that. The goal is to provide ways for people to connect. They either have read my books, or they’ve seen me speak, and then from there, if they want to connect even more, we provide these other avenues for them to connect. And so during COVID, it was the newsletter. It was my social media following, all the people that have connected to me through my books, my work, and also the podcast now as well. And from that was an audience that we were able to reach during this time. I did a lot of work this past year, virtually. A ton of virtual events, probably the result of all the years of work I’ve been doing, reaching out, conducting, speaking, going everywhere and anywhere to do the work. It just shows you again, over time you build up an authentic, real, genuine, and organic following. My following is very organic because I don’t do a ton of advertising. It’s a lot of people who have either seen me, heard me speak, or read my books.

When did you start publishing books and what have you learned along the way?

Becky: So talk about the books a little, when did you start publishing books and what have you learned along the way, as it relates to how each book increases your reach in the world? 

Jon: Well the book that really kicked off everything for me was The Energy Bus, and that came out in 2007. I would say the book, talking about the book, speaking on the book, really built up my following and also created a lot of interest in the book. So I would speak about the book, and then people would buy the book, and then they read the book. And then a lot of people who read the book, who didn’t see me speak, then invited me to speak. So one built the other. I always tell people, when you’re starting out, speak on your book, make your topic that’s in your book your speech topic. And that way, it will be a flywheel effect, your talk promotes the book, your book promotes the talk, and then you’ll grow that way. 

So for me, initially, it was really focusing on just getting the message of The Energy Bus out there, and then as I would speak, and meet different leaders and organizations, I would get new ideas. And that would lead to another book, which would lead to another book. So for me, it wasn’t writing a book to market myself. I was writing a book to share something and say something that needed to be said. And so each book was something I wanted to say. But that book would then reach more people and build on the following because some people would read The No Complaining Rule or Training Camp, or The Carpenter, and not even know about The Energy Bus, and so people found me through other books that I wrote and then they’d come in and then read the other books. So having a lot of different books creates synergy. It’s like you go to a town center and there’s one store you’re going to see, but then you see, oh, they got these other stores here, and you go check out the other stores, and the synergy builds. That’s why a lot of restaurants want to be near each other. You don’t want to be isolated as a restaurant, you want to be near the other restaurants, so you can try all the other places.

What are some pivotal lessons you’ve learned along your journey?

Becky: So Jon, could you share some pivotal moments or lessons you’ve learned on your journey?

Jon: So many. I mean, just getting rejected by over 30 publishers when I wrote The Energy Bus, that was a pivotal moment. Just staying with it, trusting, believing, a lot of prayers, finally getting that publishing deal from John Wiley & Sons, Inc. It coming out. Bookstores wouldn’t carry it, but it was a best-seller in South Korea. So that was a big moment. Being told I wasn’t very good as a speaker early on, that was a pivotal moment. I should have given up many times, but I didn’t. I kept doing it even when I wasn’t good. Working on my craft over time, feeling like I had a message to share, knowing I wasn’t great. The wanting to get better, wanting to improve, so that was a pivotal moment, as well. Being on the big stages initially was a really big moment in terms of being in front of all these people, and not really performing great in those big moments, like being onstage and not being your best, the moment was almost too big for me. And then learning from those moments, growing from those moments, and then being on the big stage again and being ready for that moment. And bringing the content, the passion, and the gift that you developed over years and the talent…that was pretty cool to be able to then rise to the occasion in those moments. Knowing those tough moments, difficult early moments, led you to this moment. Getting on TV and The Today Show was a big moment. 

For the first time, early on in my career, I got into The Today Show and did a four week series with them, and that really created a lot of exposure. Doing the governor’s conferences in Texas and reaching all these different audiences as part of those big conferences was great. And then just getting called different times when you least expected it. Someone would reach; they heard about you, they read your book, and it was a moment that maybe you were having a tough week and all of a sudden you get invited to a big stage event. And you go, “Okay, I’m meant to do this.” And now years later, you go, “Okay, this is what I do.” But back then it was like, “Okay, am I meant to do this?” and then you get the gig, you get the book deal. One thing after another leads you to realize, “Okay, I’m doing what I’m called to do.”

How valuable is your email list when releasing new books? 

Becky: That’s really helpful. So I’m thinking a little bit Jon, just about my own observing of your work over the years. Because I work with authors to market their books, I’ve watched when you’ve had various book launches, and I can’t remember which book it was, it was probably several years ago, and I remember it was your book launch day and I saw an announcement on social media, I went over to Amazon, the book was selling like crazy. But I didn’t see any massive promo coming out from you the way you often do with authors. And I asked Daniel Decker, who I know is someone that you’ve worked with, and he said, “Well, all Jon needs to do when a book comes out is to send out an email, and he sells a lot of books.” 

So I’m curious how accurate you think that is, and what your experience has been like, in terms of the value of your email list, in helping you at those moments of releasing your new books along the journey?

Jon: Oh, it’s huge. Because they are loyal followers, because they’re people who read your books, and you’ve built up a lot of trust with them because you are always providing value, always sharing weekly content. You’re not asking for anything. You’re not charging for your newsletter, you’re just providing value over time. You build up the trust, and a lot of those people wind up reading your books. So when you come out with a new one, and in your email, as you say, “Hey, I have a new book coming out,” those amazing people who support you wind up getting your book. And so it goes a long way in selling a lot of books. That list again, started out at five people, and is now over 250,000. That’s a lot of people, right? And so a lot of people who read your books now, a lot of them don’t though. So there’s a lot of people when a new book comes out, they may read it, they may get a book for the first time. They’ve been following you for a while and they finally decided to buy your book. I’ve had people on social media say, “Hey, I’ve been following you for a year now. Love your content. Decided to buy one of your books.” So again, I’m not asking for anything from that person. I’m just doing what I’m here to do by providing content. Same thing on social media, right? Twitter, constantly share it, but then it leads to that person buying my book, great. So I never started this to sell books. I always started to provide content and value, and the newsletter was a great example. I didn’t know the newsletter was going to lead to all these great people who buy my books. I never knew it would lead to the growth of that. You asked me what’s the number one thing I’ve done. That’s it. I didn’t know that when we started this, it was just to be able to reach people to share information with, but it’s led to so many speaking engagements as well. So it’s the number one thing we’ve ever done, but it was not intentional. Now there’s a lot smarter people who know what they’re doing, know how to do it, and all that. So it really came from a good intention and a good state of mind. 

The other thing is the launch team that we do with Daniel, that’s been huge as well. Every book now we have a launch team that helps us promote the book, support the book, and those are the people who are, again, people who like your work. They might be considered fans, readers, whatever you want to call them. They love your work. We ask them to join our launch team and we’ll get between 1000 and 2000 people to join the launch team now. And the launch team markets the book to their list, to their audience, to their page, to their friends. They get to read the book in advance, they get to be part of the community, and they even buy the book to help support it. And so the launch team has been very helpful and successful in getting our initial thrust out there when the book first comes out. So very thankful for the launch team and all the people who have followed me all these years who support the books, obviously couldn’t have done it without them.

Any surprises on your journey? 

Becky: So any surprises on your journey, Jon? Besides ones you’ve already mentioned in terms of you didn’t set out to do the newsletter knowing the great benefits it would bring, but only just to add value?

Jon: Yeah, I think surprising for me is just that I’ve written so many books. Like, I never expected to do this many books, right? So we’re up to 23, now 24 actually, I think with the new one, and 5 children’s books, 11 bestsellers. So I think for me, it’s surprising that we’ve reached as many people as we have, and surprising that I said the newsletter because that, again, is probably the biggest surprise. But also surprised that when I don’t think a book is going to do well out of the gate, it does a lot better than I expected, because sometimes I won’t even promote a book hard, because I’m like, alright, we already promoted this other book and I wasn’t planning on writing a book this year, but I did. I don’t want to promote it too much. I don’t want to be too promotional and yet, the book will still do really well. It’s been fun to try out different books like alright, The Coffee Bean, I’m going to do an illustrated little fable that you can read in 20 minutes, let’s see how that does. And you get surprised at how well the book does, even though it’s just a little book like that. So I won’t write a book to just write a book or to try to sell a book. Like my publisher one time, maybe four or five years ago said, “Okay, we need a book out this year!” I’m not ready to do one. I’m not going to do a book unless I need to say something or want to say something, and then I’ll do it. I’m not gonna write a book just to write a book. The minute I do that, I’ll be done. So I’m thankful, and what I’m proud of is that people say the quality, like people say that I haven’t written a bad book. You know, most people, if you go to Amazon, you’re gonna find some reviews that just don’t like it and they just don’t like you. But for people who know my work, like, yeah every book he does, there’s something valuable there, and that I take pride in. I don’t want to just put a book out there. I want it to be meaningful, and I work a lot on them and I’m involved in every aspect of the book until it gets launched.

Favorite book you’ve written? 

Becky: So do you have a favorite amongst them?

Jon: Training Camp, for sure. I mean people always ask me and definitely Training Camp, just the story. The main character has to overcome his fear, find his faith. The emotions I had in writing it. The Energy Bus, the most popular by far, but Training Camp is probably my favorite. People say The Carpenter is probably my best work or The Garden, my newest one. But definitely, definitely The Training Camp. 

Anything you want to share that you haven’t had the chance to say yet?

Becky: So Jon, is there anything that you want to say about reaching people with content that you haven’t had a chance to say yet?

Jon: Just show up and keep delivering it. A lot of times people reach out to me, “Hey, how can I build up an audience? How can I build up my brand? How can I grow it, it’s really small right now?” You have to start and just do the work every single day. It’s gonna take a while. It doesn’t happen overnight. It has to be where you provide the value in the content, you are consistent, you build trust, and over time, your following will grow. You want to be able to reach the right people who then will share it. But for the most part, you have to just continually produce the content and get it out there so people can see it. So whatever that takes for you, it might be again, social media, Twitter, Instagram, putting stories out there. Now there’s so many different ways to do it, but it’s continually doing it. And over time, you become known as a go to person in that area. 

Also finding your niche, and standing out with that niche doing something unique and different that is not being done. So you’re known for that. What are you known for? Becky, what would you say I am known for?

Becky: Either positivity or leadership

Jon: Yeah, you nailed it. So for me, it’s like you just said it’s positivity and it’s leadership. I was positivity in the beginning, then moved towards positive leadership, and really knew I wanted to be focused on that positive leadership. So much so, that’s what I will drive and drive and drive and share and share and share because I know that is what I want to be known for. It’s also what I am meant to be known for, what I’m meant to share, and being clear on that is key. Clarity leads to focus action. So really being clear on the message you want to share, and what you want to be known for, is really helpful in building your brand and reaching more people.

Action Steps

Becky: I want to share a couple of action steps with you as we wrap up today’s episode. 

One of the things that Jon talked about was the multi-channel approach that he has to marketing his work, with the most valuable one being his newsletter. If you do not already have an email newsletter, I want to encourage you as an action step today to watch my free webinar about the value of creating a permission based list. We’ll put the link to that webinar in the show notes for you, here. I would encourage you also, if you haven’t yet started a newsletter, to subscribe to one or two. And why don’t you start with Jon’s? He has a highly valuable newsletter, and you can sign up for it here. As another action step, what I want to encourage you to do is think about the long term impact that you can have, by being consistent with your approach over your journey. You know, Jon mentioned that he has been doing a newsletter in one form or another for more than a decade. And it’s that ongoing effort that has helped him to reach so many readers around the world with his books. So I would just encourage you, after listening to today’s podcast, to think about what it might look like for you to invest over the long term in your book and ideas. Resources Learn more about Jon Gordon and the work he does in the world. Get Jon Gordon’s “The Power of Positive You” Free 7 Step Action Plan, here. Connect with Jon on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, and LinkedIn. Sign up for Jon Gordon’s newsletter, here. 

If you found value in today’s episode, we hope you’ll take a moment to share it with someone else who might benefit from it. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to cover, please email Becky Robinson here.

Click here for our free resources. 

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review. 

Click here to tweet about this episode!

The post Episode 58: Jon Gordon’s Author Journey appeared first on Weaving Influence.

Jon Gordon’s Author Journey

Photo by Bartolomiej Pietrzyk / 123rf.com

Click here to listen on your device and subscribe! 

Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. In this episode, we are joined by Jon Gordon—11x Best-selling author of 23 books, speaker, positive leader. 

Today’s episode is continuing the author journey series, based on Becky’s book, which is scheduled for release from Berrett Koehler publishers in April 2022. The book is called Reach: Creating Lasting Impact for Your Book, Message, or Cause. 

About Jon Gordon

Becky: So the interview that you’re about to listen to with Jon Gordon is one I recorded as part of my book writing process. I interviewed Jon to talk about what he’s learned about creating lasting impact for his books and ideas in the world. Jon Gordon is an author of best-selling books and a keynote speaker, and he’s worked with fortune 500 companies, professional and college sports teams, school districts, hospitals, and nonprofits. He’s authored more than 23 books, and his timeless classic, The Energy Bus, has sold over 2 million copies. So Jon knows quite a lot about creating lasting impact for his work, and I think you’ll find this conversation to be really valuable to listen to and enjoy.

What has been the most important tactic in gaining reach for your books, ideas, and work?

Becky: Hey, Jon, thanks so much for taking some time to talk with me today. I’d really love to learn from the great success you’ve had authoring over 16 books. So, Jon, I’m curious what has been the most important tactic for you in gaining reach for your books, ideas, and work in the world?

Jon: Hey, Becky. I think the number one thing that we’ve done over the years is my newsletter. We have a weekly positive tip. I started it in 2002, right? And so years ago, I’ve been doing this newsletter every week for let’s see, 18 or 19 years now, and so every year, every week, over and over again, the repetition of it, more and more followers, more and more readers, people share the newsletter to others. And over time, that consistency, that focus, that value add to people, sharing constant value is something that people share with others, and it grows and grows. So I would say that newsletter is probably the best thing I’ve done. 

Also, I would just say showing up every day, and doing the work. Sharing a quote every day on LinkedIn, Twitter, or Instagram. Sharing encouragement, providing value, sharing content to hopefully help people. Doing it over and over again, as I said, every day, every week, for the last 18 years, over time you get, reach doesn’t happen overnight, but the reach then exponentially grows and you reach more and more people. When you show up and do the work you earn trust that way. And then when people trust you, they show up and they tell more people about you.

Becky: Wow. So if we could just dial that back and slow it down a little bit. You started in 2002?

Jon: Yes, 2002.

Becky: Yeah, I’m guessing that was before a lot of thought leaders were out there doing newsletters. So did that predate your writing and publishing any books, Jon?

Jon: It did. So when I decided I wanted to write and speak, I knew I wanted to do this. I started with a newsletter, and initially it was a fax. I was sending out faxes to people, getting their fax number, then I would get their emails and I would actually send emails out, and it was not really professional. I would write something up and then just email it. And I think it was like 5 people initially, then 20, then 100, and eventually, we started using Constant Contact, which was just beginning at that time. And no one was really doing newsletters back then. There were no blogs, there was no social media, it was the way to reach people was this weekly, positive tip. Now, it seems like everyone has a newsletter. Everyone’s on social media. But back then it was very early on and I was just beginning.

Becky: So tell me about where your newsletter list is right now.

Jon: 250,000, I would say. 

Becky: Amazing, and they get a weekly, positive tip from you?

Jon: Right. We do a weekly positive tip and then, mid week, we’ll do a promo for something that we have upcoming, an event, a training, or a launch of a new book. Our power of positive summit is this week, so we’ll be promoting that. So we’ve added that promo piece and people don’t seem to mind that. We don’t want to bombard people with too many things, so we try to keep it with a newsletter and one promo per week. We started the promo about two years ago. So for years it was just the weekly newsletter, and we started the promo because we had so many things going on that we couldn’t fit it all into just the newsletter. So we added the promo piece and I think that’s worked out well, as well.

How did you convert people who saw you speak into staying connected through your newsletter?

Becky: So I know Jon, that you’ve also been, prior to COVID, traveling a lot and speaking a lot. In what way did you convert the people who saw you speak in person to stay connected to you long term through the newsletter?

Jon: When we’re on stage or giving a talk or something like that it was always “Hey, sign up for my newsletter.” There’s always a PowerPoint slide at the end giving a contact information for people to sign up. We do a free seven step action plan for people to sign up, so we’re always offering that. The goal is to provide ways for people to connect. They either have read my books, or they’ve seen me speak, and then from there, if they want to connect even more, we provide these other avenues for them to connect. And so during COVID, it was the newsletter. It was my social media following, all the people that have connected to me through my books, my work, and also the podcast now as well. And from that was an audience that we were able to reach during this time. I did a lot of work this past year, virtually. A ton of virtual events, probably the result of all the years of work I’ve been doing, reaching out, conducting, speaking, going everywhere and anywhere to do the work. It just shows you again, over time you build up an authentic, real, genuine, and organic following. My following is very organic because I don’t do a ton of advertising. It’s a lot of people who have either seen me, heard me speak, or read my books.

When did you start publishing books and what have you learned along the way?

Becky: So talk about the books a little, when did you start publishing books and what have you learned along the way, as it relates to how each book increases your reach in the world? 

Jon: Well the book that really kicked off everything for me was The Energy Bus, and that came out in 2007. I would say the book, talking about the book, speaking on the book, really built up my following and also created a lot of interest in the book. So I would speak about the book, and then people would buy the book, and then they read the book. And then a lot of people who read the book, who didn’t see me speak, then invited me to speak. So one built the other. I always tell people, when you’re starting out, speak on your book, make your topic that’s in your book your speech topic. And that way, it will be a flywheel effect, your talk promotes the book, your book promotes the talk, and then you’ll grow that way. 

So for me, initially, it was really focusing on just getting the message of The Energy Bus out there, and then as I would speak, and meet different leaders and organizations, I would get new ideas. And that would lead to another book, which would lead to another book. So for me, it wasn’t writing a book to market myself. I was writing a book to share something and say something that needed to be said. And so each book was something I wanted to say. But that book would then reach more people and build on the following because some people would read The No Complaining Rule or Training Camp, or The Carpenter, and not even know about The Energy Bus, and so people found me through other books that I wrote and then they’d come in and then read the other books. So having a lot of different books creates synergy. It’s like you go to a town center and there’s one store you’re going to see, but then you see, oh, they got these other stores here, and you go check out the other stores, and the synergy builds. That’s why a lot of restaurants want to be near each other. You don’t want to be isolated as a restaurant, you want to be near the other restaurants, so you can try all the other places.

What are some pivotal lessons you’ve learned along your journey?

Becky: So Jon, could you share some pivotal moments or lessons you’ve learned on your journey?

Jon: So many. I mean, just getting rejected by over 30 publishers when I wrote The Energy Bus, that was a pivotal moment. Just staying with it, trusting, believing, a lot of prayers, finally getting that publishing deal from John Wiley & Sons, Inc. It coming out. Bookstores wouldn’t carry it, but it was a best-seller in South Korea. So that was a big moment. Being told I wasn’t very good as a speaker early on, that was a pivotal moment. I should have given up many times, but I didn’t. I kept doing it even when I wasn’t good. Working on my craft over time, feeling like I had a message to share, knowing I wasn’t great. The wanting to get better, wanting to improve, so that was a pivotal moment, as well. Being on the big stages initially was a really big moment in terms of being in front of all these people, and not really performing great in those big moments, like being onstage and not being your best, the moment was almost too big for me. And then learning from those moments, growing from those moments, and then being on the big stage again and being ready for that moment. And bringing the content, the passion, and the gift that you developed over years and the talent…that was pretty cool to be able to then rise to the occasion in those moments. Knowing those tough moments, difficult early moments, led you to this moment. Getting on TV and The Today Show was a big moment. 

For the first time, early on in my career, I got into The Today Show and did a four week series with them, and that really created a lot of exposure. Doing the governor’s conferences in Texas and reaching all these different audiences as part of those big conferences was great. And then just getting called different times when you least expected it. Someone would reach; they heard about you, they read your book, and it was a moment that maybe you were having a tough week and all of a sudden you get invited to a big stage event. And you go, “Okay, I’m meant to do this.” And now years later, you go, “Okay, this is what I do.” But back then it was like, “Okay, am I meant to do this?” and then you get the gig, you get the book deal. One thing after another leads you to realize, “Okay, I’m doing what I’m called to do.”

How valuable is your email list when releasing new books? 

Becky: That’s really helpful. So I’m thinking a little bit Jon, just about my own observing of your work over the years. Because I work with authors to market their books, I’ve watched when you’ve had various book launches, and I can’t remember which book it was, it was probably several years ago, and I remember it was your book launch day and I saw an announcement on social media, I went over to Amazon, the book was selling like crazy. But I didn’t see any massive promo coming out from you the way you often do with authors. And I asked Daniel Decker, who I know is someone that you’ve worked with, and he said, “Well, all Jon needs to do when a book comes out is to send out an email, and he sells a lot of books.” 

So I’m curious how accurate you think that is, and what your experience has been like, in terms of the value of your email list, in helping you at those moments of releasing your new books along the journey?

Jon: Oh, it’s huge. Because they are loyal followers, because they’re people who read your books, and you’ve built up a lot of trust with them because you are always providing value, always sharing weekly content. You’re not asking for anything. You’re not charging for your newsletter, you’re just providing value over time. You build up the trust, and a lot of those people wind up reading your books. So when you come out with a new one, and in your email, as you say, “Hey, I have a new book coming out,” those amazing people who support you wind up getting your book. And so it goes a long way in selling a lot of books. That list again, started out at five people, and is now over 250,000. That’s a lot of people, right? And so a lot of people who read your books now, a lot of them don’t though. So there’s a lot of people when a new book comes out, they may read it, they may get a book for the first time. They’ve been following you for a while and they finally decided to buy your book. I’ve had people on social media say, “Hey, I’ve been following you for a year now. Love your content. Decided to buy one of your books.” So again, I’m not asking for anything from that person. I’m just doing what I’m here to do by providing content. Same thing on social media, right? Twitter, constantly share it, but then it leads to that person buying my book, great. So I never started this to sell books. I always started to provide content and value, and the newsletter was a great example. I didn’t know the newsletter was going to lead to all these great people who buy my books. I never knew it would lead to the growth of that. You asked me what’s the number one thing I’ve done. That’s it. I didn’t know that when we started this, it was just to be able to reach people to share information with, but it’s led to so many speaking engagements as well. So it’s the number one thing we’ve ever done, but it was not intentional. Now there’s a lot smarter people who know what they’re doing, know how to do it, and all that. So it really came from a good intention and a good state of mind. 

The other thing is the launch team that we do with Daniel, that’s been huge as well. Every book now we have a launch team that helps us promote the book, support the book, and those are the people who are, again, people who like your work. They might be considered fans, readers, whatever you want to call them. They love your work. We ask them to join our launch team and we’ll get between 1000 and 2000 people to join the launch team now. And the launch team markets the book to their list, to their audience, to their page, to their friends. They get to read the book in advance, they get to be part of the community, and they even buy the book to help support it. And so the launch team has been very helpful and successful in getting our initial thrust out there when the book first comes out. So very thankful for the launch team and all the people who have followed me all these years who support the books, obviously couldn’t have done it without them.

Any surprises on your journey? 

Becky: So any surprises on your journey, Jon? Besides ones you’ve already mentioned in terms of you didn’t set out to do the newsletter knowing the great benefits it would bring, but only just to add value?

Jon: Yeah, I think surprising for me is just that I’ve written so many books. Like, I never expected to do this many books, right? So we’re up to 23, now 24 actually, I think with the new one, and 5 children’s books, 11 bestsellers. So I think for me, it’s surprising that we’ve reached as many people as we have, and surprising that I said the newsletter because that, again, is probably the biggest surprise. But also surprised that when I don’t think a book is going to do well out of the gate, it does a lot better than I expected, because sometimes I won’t even promote a book hard, because I’m like, alright, we already promoted this other book and I wasn’t planning on writing a book this year, but I did. I don’t want to promote it too much. I don’t want to be too promotional and yet, the book will still do really well. It’s been fun to try out different books like alright, The Coffee Bean, I’m going to do an illustrated little fable that you can read in 20 minutes, let’s see how that does. And you get surprised at how well the book does, even though it’s just a little book like that. So I won’t write a book to just write a book or to try to sell a book. Like my publisher one time, maybe four or five years ago said, “Okay, we need a book out this year!” I’m not ready to do one. I’m not going to do a book unless I need to say something or want to say something, and then I’ll do it. I’m not gonna write a book just to write a book. The minute I do that, I’ll be done. So I’m thankful, and what I’m proud of is that people say the quality, like people say that I haven’t written a bad book. You know, most people, if you go to Amazon, you’re gonna find some reviews that just don’t like it and they just don’t like you. But for people who know my work, like, yeah every book he does, there’s something valuable there, and that I take pride in. I don’t want to just put a book out there. I want it to be meaningful, and I work a lot on them and I’m involved in every aspect of the book until it gets launched.

Favorite book you’ve written? 

Becky: So do you have a favorite amongst them?

Jon: Training Camp, for sure. I mean people always ask me and definitely Training Camp, just the story. The main character has to overcome his fear, find his faith. The emotions I had in writing it. The Energy Bus, the most popular by far, but Training Camp is probably my favorite. People say The Carpenter is probably my best work or The Garden, my newest one. But definitely, definitely The Training Camp. 

Anything you want to share that you haven’t had the chance to say yet?

Becky: So Jon, is there anything that you want to say about reaching people with content that you haven’t had a chance to say yet?

Jon: Just show up and keep delivering it. A lot of times people reach out to me, “Hey, how can I build up an audience? How can I build up my brand? How can I grow it, it’s really small right now?” You have to start and just do the work every single day. It’s gonna take a while. It doesn’t happen overnight. It has to be where you provide the value in the content, you are consistent, you build trust, and over time, your following will grow. You want to be able to reach the right people who then will share it. But for the most part, you have to just continually produce the content and get it out there so people can see it. So whatever that takes for you, it might be again, social media, Twitter, Instagram, putting stories out there. Now there’s so many different ways to do it, but it’s continually doing it. And over time, you become known as a go to person in that area. 

Also finding your niche, and standing out with that niche doing something unique and different that is not being done. So you’re known for that. What are you known for? Becky, what would you say I am known for?

Becky: Either positivity or leadership

Jon: Yeah, you nailed it. So for me, it’s like you just said it’s positivity and it’s leadership. I was positivity in the beginning, then moved towards positive leadership, and really knew I wanted to be focused on that positive leadership. So much so, that’s what I will drive and drive and drive and share and share and share because I know that is what I want to be known for. It’s also what I am meant to be known for, what I’m meant to share, and being clear on that is key. Clarity leads to focus action. So really being clear on the message you want to share, and what you want to be known for, is really helpful in building your brand and reaching more people.

Action Steps

Becky: I want to share a couple of action steps with you as we wrap up today’s episode. 

One of the things that Jon talked about was the multi-channel approach that he has to marketing his work, with the most valuable one being his newsletter. If you do not already have an email newsletter, I want to encourage you as an action step today to watch my free webinar about the value of creating a permission based list. We’ll put the link to that webinar in the show notes for you, here. I would encourage you also, if you haven’t yet started a newsletter, to subscribe to one or two. And why don’t you start with Jon’s? He has a highly valuable newsletter, and you can sign up for it here. As another action step, what I want to encourage you to do is think about the long term impact that you can have, by being consistent with your approach over your journey. You know, Jon mentioned that he has been doing a newsletter in one form or another for more than a decade. And it’s that ongoing effort that has helped him to reach so many readers around the world with his books. So I would just encourage you, after listening to today’s podcast, to think about what it might look like for you to invest over the long term in your book and ideas. Resources Learn more about Jon Gordon and the work he does in the world. Get Jon Gordon’s “The Power of Positive You” Free 7 Step Action Plan, here. Connect with Jon on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, and LinkedIn. Sign up for Jon Gordon’s newsletter, here. 

If you found value in today’s episode, we hope you’ll take a moment to share it with someone else who might benefit from it. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to cover, please email Becky Robinson here.

Click here for our free resources. 

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review. 

Click here to tweet about this episode!

The post Jon Gordon’s Author Journey appeared first on Weaving Influence.

Go Ahead: Have Fun with Marketing Collateral

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All of our book marketing efforts have one goal…to sell books.  There are thousands of books published each year which means getting a book to stand-out in a cluttered market takes creativity and tenacity.

We recommend a strong book page or website, a vibrant and consistent social presence, digital advertising, public relations outreach, and more.  We also recommend collateral-that’s marketing speak for branded materials.

While there’s no clear ROI, there is research that shows consumers trust printed collateral 55% more than other types of marketing which is why we often recommend bookmarks and postcards to clients who send out books to a launch team, or to clients who do a lot of speaking.  Leaving an audience with something tangible can help drive awareness and book sales. 

Traditional collateral items work, but sometimes, you need something a little more memorable. Depending on the audience for a book,  there is a world of creative, fun collateral items that will keep people talking about (and buying) a book.  

Taking a page from the world of running,  t-shirts and other wearables are a sought after collateral item.  Most authors send launch team members an advance copy of their book, but sending them a t-shirt, too, could drive more engagement and greater participation.  I’m imagining a Got Motvation? t-shirt now!

A client of ours has an upcoming book focused on strategy.  He’s created promotional poker chips to go out with his books.  He also plans to give these out at speaking engagements.  It’s a fun item and sure to get people talking about and remembering his book.  

Flashlights, coffee mugs, drink tumblers, golf balls…the list of items available for branding is nearly limitless.  Using these items to thank a launch team,  as a giveaway at speaking events, or on social media,  creates excitement and interest, and could be just the thing to cut through the book glut and get your title noticed.

Collateral is an investment but we think it’s often a great way to drive long-term interest, loyalty, and ultimately, sell some books.

The post Go Ahead: Have Fun with Marketing Collateral appeared first on Weaving Influence.

Episode 57: Cathy Fyock’s Author Journey

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Click here to listen on your device and subscribe! 

Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. In this episode, we are joined by Cathy Fyock—Author, Book Strategist, and Certified Speaking Professional (CSP).

Today’s episode is continuing the author journey series. The series is based on Becky’s book, which is scheduled for release from Berrett Koehler publishers in April 2022. The book is called Reach: Creating Lasting Impact for your Book, Message, or Cause. One of the things that you’re going to hear from Cathy in our upcoming conversation is this idea that books are magic. So I’ll be curious once you listen to it, if you agree that books are magical.

About Cathy Fyock

Becky: Kathy, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me today. I’m really interested in diving in and talking to you about the major pivot that you made in your career. So after years in HR, and recruiting roles, and as a speaker to HR audiences, you made a pivot to a business as a book strategist. Cathy, I would love for you to tell me about the journey to build your brand in a new area.

Cathy: Well, one of the best ways to rebuild a brand and to create this new persona as a book coach, is to write a book. It’s interesting, I was giving a presentation for the National Speakers Association and I was asked to codify my process and I thought, this is so interesting. I don’t know exactly what my process is, but I’m going to learn what it is by having to sit down and codify it. So when I gave the program, several of my friends came up to me and said, Cathy, have you ever thought about becoming a book coach? I thought, no, but I liked this idea. So that was really the launch. But then I was thinking, okay, so what am I going to do? The only credential I really had was being a small business owner and entrepreneur, and having been an author, and growing my business through authorship. But I thought, okay, if I’m going to do this, I need to write a book about how to write a book and that is my new credential, and the really cool thing is it absolutely worked.

Becky: A follow up then. So why do you think it worked so well?

Cathy: I think because I tell my clients, books are magical, books have a power unlike a blog and unlike articles, and unlike any other product or service or offering. Books are magical, and they have a power, maybe because they are hard to write. It does take an enormous amount of energy and effort and clarity and focus. It takes all of that, but in the clarity and focus, and in that whole process of articulating your expertise, you are really getting so clear about what it is that you do and what the magic is that that is what your book contains: is the secret sauce, the powerful ingredients of your process, whatever that might be. So having a book, as the credential is just…there’s nothing quite like it.

What was the timeline of pivoting to a new business?

Becky: So Cathy, could you talk for a moment about the timeline. So from the point that you decided to begin this new type of business, and what that’s been like for you, because I know it’s been close to 10 years?

Cathy: Yeah, it’s been like 7 plus years now. So it was actually in the spring of 2013 that I gave my presentation to the chapter on how to write a book. Then I got the idea that if I was going to do this business, I needed to write the book. So I wrote the book that fall, and I wrote it in six weeks, true to my formula, and launched the business in January of 2014. Basically, in my first months as a book coach, I did more talking to people about the idea of writing books. I put together my initial package, and then I just started having conversations with people about what it is that I was doing, using the book as the key leverage or the key way to articulate what it is that I’m doing, and how I’m doing it. But really, the business has grown enormously since then. I started the business in January of 2014. I’ve helped now nearly 200 professionals become published authors. I have authored five more books, and it just keeps growing. I keep seeing opportunities to serve my clients in new and different ways and I’ve never been more fulfilled in my work ever.

Becky: Wow, that’s amazing. So the first book, though, that you ever wrote was the one that you wrote in 2013. Is that correct?

Cathy: No, the first book that I wrote about writing. So my books before were on human resources issues. But my first book on writing, it was basically saying, “I have expertise on this new topic. You don’t know me for knowing this topic, except that I have written books in HR.” But writing that book about how to write a book has really launched everything for me.

What’s been most important to you on this journey? 

Becky: That’s really powerful. Thank you for clarifying. So I’m curious what’s been most important to you on this journey, Cathy?

Cathy: I think really listening to what my clients are telling me and what they’re asking me for, and what they are saying about the process. So as I’ve been growing my tribe, I really tried to listen to what my clients have said. So they said, “I really am having trouble with this,” or “I don’t think this is long enough,” or “I think that you need to add this service.” I’ve really tried to flex and be as responsive as I possibly can to what my clients are asking for. 

For example, early on, some of my clients asked me for help in some area that I had no expertise in. And one of my clients said, “Well,if you don’t have the expertise, why don’t you just get a guest on a program and offer webinars about the topics that you don’t know about, but that your authors are interested in learning about and that, frankly, I’m interested in learning about, too.” I thought that was brilliant. So I have lots of friends that are related to publishing, promoting, and writing your book. So those became my guests for my master classes. I don’t call them webinars anymore, I call them master classes. I do them at least monthly and it’s a great strategy for offering value to my clients, for educating myself and building my tribe in my community, and offering incredible value to my clients and information that they want and need.

What have you learned about what it takes to expand awareness of your thought leadership in a new area?

Becky: That seems like a great strategy. So I’m wondering, Cathy, what you’ve learned about what it takes to expand awareness of your thought leadership in this new area?

Cathy: Well, I think continuing to write. So I didn’t just write the first book, I have written several books in the space. So my first book was On Your Mark: From First Word to First Draft in Six Weeks which was the fundamentals/basics of the process. My next book, written a couple years later, was Blog2Book: Repurposing Content to Discover the Book You’ve Already Written, which came to me again, as a result of listening to people. I was attending a conference of the National Speakers Association and within four hours, I had four people come up to me and say, “Cathy, I love what you’re doing. I really think that I need you to work with me. I’ve been blogging for several years and I feel like there’s a book there. Maybe you could help me put it together?” I’m thinking, oh my gosh, that’s a service I should be offering. And then I thought, oh, my gosh, that’s a book I should be writing. Then I wrote it as a blog book, meaning I repurposed a lot of the blog content that I had been writing. So I actually modeled a blog to book. And then my next book was The Speaker Author, because I found that a lot of my authors did not know how to leverage their books into growing their businesses, which is kind of my fundamental reason for helping people write books, is to grow a business. So I wrote The Speaker Author as a way for my clients to better understand the magic, the power of a book, to grow your business, and to use it in a smart and effective way.

What challenges have you encountered?

Becky: Thanks, Cathy. I’m curious about any challenges you’ve encountered on your journey?

Cathy: This has been the most magical journey. It’s, in some ways, been a long journey. It’s been seven plus years, but it has been so much fun. So it’s been hard work, but it’s been easy, if you know what I mean. It has just been a labor of love. I know, I work hard at what I do, but it has been so enjoyable, and so rewarding. So, yeah, I feel like I’m in the zone.

What are you most hoping to achieve?

Becky: That’s amazing. So Cathy, I’m wondering what you’re most hoping to achieve?

Cathy: What I say now to my authors is that, as speakers and authors, I believe that we can and do change the world, one word at a time, and we make a difference. My authors are all trying to make the world a better place in some way in their corner of the world. And that’s what I want folks to do. In stepping into thought leadership, they are really stepping into bringing their whole potential to the world and they’re also helping bring others into their full potential. So it is this wonderful cycle of developing and growing and becoming more.

Becky: So how will you know when you’ve achieved your highest goals for your work in the world?

Cathy: Well, I have no plans to retire, even though I’m technically at retirement age, so I’m just enjoying the process. I plan to have a more condensed workweek, but I’m continuing to work and I have no plans to quit, because I love what I’m doing. So until no one needs me anymore or calls on me, then I will be offering my services to aspiring authors.

How has generosity played a role in your journey?

Becky: So I’m curious, Cathy, what role has generosity played on your journey?

Cathy: You know, people have been so generous with me. One of the things I love about the National Speakers Association is that it is an organization of caring and sharing, and I love being a part of that. And that really suits me and fits me. I find that the more generous I am in helping others, I believe that there are times to provide a break for folks or give them a leg up or help them in ways that are sort of beyond the call of duty, and I love doing that. So being generous is definitely a philosophy that I have, that the more generous I am, the more generous the world is to me. It’s not me doing one to make the other happen but it’s just it seems to me you can’t be generous and not have it come back to benefit you in some way.

Do you think you’re famous?

Becky: Thank you. I’m curious, Cathy, do you think you’re famous?

Cathy: I don’t think I’m really famous, like a celebrity famous, but in my own little corner of the world, you think there is maybe some fame there. I’ve certainly helped a lot of people and a lot of people give me credit for being the encourager that has helped them go on to achieve things that are on their bucket list, like writing a book. So that has been fun. And maybe in that way, I’m a little bit famous.

Is there anything about building thought leadership or building influence online that you wish I’d asked you?

Becky: A little bit famous, I like that. So Cathy, is there anything about building thought leadership online or building influence online that you wish I’d asked you so that you could share it with our audience?

Cathy: I think continuing to really pay attention to what your clients are asking you for, what they need and writing on those things, writing books, or writing blogs, or writing content around those things. So paying attention to what your people are saying, what your tribe is saying. Really listening, asking good questions, and I think that’s part of what it means to be a thought leader.

What is a tribe and what does your tribe mean to you?

Becky: So I want to pick up on one more thing. A few times on this call, Cathy, you’ve mentioned your tribe. So how do you know who your tribe is and what does your tribe mean to you?

Cathy: I’m a big fan of Seth Godin’s book, Tribes, and I read that early on in my book coaching career. So it really struck me because as I was reading it I was thinking, “Oh, yeah, this is what authors need to do.” We’re all building our tribe, we’re all building a community of folks who are interconnected and support one another, and are here for one another. So it’s not just clients, that doesn’t do it justice. My tribe, they may be business partners, like you, Becky, other publishing partners, I’m not a publisher, I’m not an editor. So it’s thinking about all the folks who come together to help one another in making the world a better place, one word at a time. So it’s the totality of that, it’s this big community that is absolutely connected to one another in amazing sorts of ways. I love that about the work that I do.

How do you set expectations with the authors you’re coaching?

Becky: Thank you. I have one last question. I’m curious about how you help authors set expectations for what a book can do in their work and in their businesses, because I heard you say earlier in our conversation, books are magical?

Cathy: They are, but as I say they’re magical. It’s sort of like books are like having a magic wand. They don’t do magic on their own, you have to wield the magic wand. You have to know how to use the magic wand. And I think that’s true with a book. Just writing the book and putting it out there in the world is not going to create magic. Now, there may be some that just happens, but it’s unlikely. But it’s how you use the tool. It’s how you give it away, how you offer it to others, how you gift it sometimes to others, how you repurpose the content, how you get it out there in the world. So you’re making the most of that opportunity. You’re looking for opportunities to do interviews, you’re looking for opportunities to do presentations, to do podcasts, to do all types of different events that will get your thought leadership out in the world. That’s where I think some of this magic starts to happen.

Action Steps

Becky: Today’s action steps are specifically for those of you who aspire to write books, but haven’t written them yet. If you are someone who’s always dreamed of being an author, but you haven’t yet written a book, I would encourage you to think about my conversation with Cathy, and her idea that books are magic. 

I’d encourage you to either journal about or talk to a friend about what the magic is that you hope a book that you might write, would have in the world and for your business. I encourage you to let that sink in and motivate you toward your next steps on your author journey. The second action step for those of you who aspire to write books is to identify a partner for this early part of outlining what type of book you might want to write and how you might bring it to the world. Cathy Fyock is a great person to contact. You can find her at her website, or I’d always be happy to talk with you about your writing dreams. If not Cathy or me, you may have a friend who could be a great asset to you on your journey. I would encourage you, as an action step of listening to today’s podcast, to contact someone, Cathy or a friend in your life, who can be an encouragement to you to move closer to your goal of publishing a book.ResourcesLearn more about Cathy Fyock and the work she does in the world.Connect with Cathy on Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube. 

If you found value in today’s episode, we hope you’ll take a moment to share it with someone else who might benefit from it. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to cover, please email Becky Robinson here.

Click here for our free resources. 

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review. 

Click here to tweet about this episode!

The post Episode 57: Cathy Fyock’s Author Journey appeared first on Weaving Influence.

Cathy Fyock’s Author Journey

Photo by vimvertigo / 123rf.com

Click here to listen on your device and subscribe! 

Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. In this episode, we are joined by Cathy Fyock—Author, Book Strategist, and Certified Speaking Professional (CSP).

Today’s episode is continuing the author journey series. The series is based on Becky’s book, which is scheduled for release from Berrett Koehler publishers in April 2022. The book is called Reach: Creating Lasting Impact for your Book, Message, or Cause. One of the things that you’re going to hear from Cathy in our upcoming conversation is this idea that books are magic. So I’ll be curious once you listen to it, if you agree that books are magical.

About Cathy Fyock

Becky: Kathy, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me today. I’m really interested in diving in and talking to you about the major pivot that you made in your career. So after years in HR, and recruiting roles, and as a speaker to HR audiences, you made a pivot to a business as a book strategist. Cathy, I would love for you to tell me about the journey to build your brand in a new area.

Cathy: Well, one of the best ways to rebuild a brand and to create this new persona as a book coach, is to write a book. It’s interesting, I was giving a presentation for the National Speakers Association and I was asked to codify my process and I thought, this is so interesting. I don’t know exactly what my process is, but I’m going to learn what it is by having to sit down and codify it. So when I gave the program, several of my friends came up to me and said, Cathy, have you ever thought about becoming a book coach? I thought, no, but I liked this idea. So that was really the launch. But then I was thinking, okay, so what am I going to do? The only credential I really had was being a small business owner and entrepreneur, and having been an author, and growing my business through authorship. But I thought, okay, if I’m going to do this, I need to write a book about how to write a book and that is my new credential, and the really cool thing is it absolutely worked.

Becky: A follow up then. So why do you think it worked so well?

Cathy: I think because I tell my clients, books are magical, books have a power unlike a blog and unlike articles, and unlike any other product or service or offering. Books are magical, and they have a power, maybe because they are hard to write. It does take an enormous amount of energy and effort and clarity and focus. It takes all of that, but in the clarity and focus, and in that whole process of articulating your expertise, you are really getting so clear about what it is that you do and what the magic is that that is what your book contains: is the secret sauce, the powerful ingredients of your process, whatever that might be. So having a book, as the credential is just…there’s nothing quite like it.

What was the timeline of pivoting to a new business?

Becky: So Cathy, could you talk for a moment about the timeline. So from the point that you decided to begin this new type of business, and what that’s been like for you, because I know it’s been close to 10 years?

Cathy: Yeah, it’s been like 7 plus years now. So it was actually in the spring of 2013 that I gave my presentation to the chapter on how to write a book. Then I got the idea that if I was going to do this business, I needed to write the book. So I wrote the book that fall, and I wrote it in six weeks, true to my formula, and launched the business in January of 2014. Basically, in my first months as a book coach, I did more talking to people about the idea of writing books. I put together my initial package, and then I just started having conversations with people about what it is that I was doing, using the book as the key leverage or the key way to articulate what it is that I’m doing, and how I’m doing it. But really, the business has grown enormously since then. I started the business in January of 2014. I’ve helped now nearly 200 professionals become published authors. I have authored five more books, and it just keeps growing. I keep seeing opportunities to serve my clients in new and different ways and I’ve never been more fulfilled in my work ever.

Becky: Wow, that’s amazing. So the first book, though, that you ever wrote was the one that you wrote in 2013. Is that correct?

Cathy: No, the first book that I wrote about writing. So my books before were on human resources issues. But my first book on writing, it was basically saying, “I have expertise on this new topic. You don’t know me for knowing this topic, except that I have written books in HR.” But writing that book about how to write a book has really launched everything for me.

What’s been most important to you on this journey? 

Becky: That’s really powerful. Thank you for clarifying. So I’m curious what’s been most important to you on this journey, Cathy?

Cathy: I think really listening to what my clients are telling me and what they’re asking me for, and what they are saying about the process. So as I’ve been growing my tribe, I really tried to listen to what my clients have said. So they said, “I really am having trouble with this,” or “I don’t think this is long enough,” or “I think that you need to add this service.” I’ve really tried to flex and be as responsive as I possibly can to what my clients are asking for. 

For example, early on, some of my clients asked me for help in some area that I had no expertise in. And one of my clients said, “Well,if you don’t have the expertise, why don’t you just get a guest on a program and offer webinars about the topics that you don’t know about, but that your authors are interested in learning about and that, frankly, I’m interested in learning about, too.” I thought that was brilliant. So I have lots of friends that are related to publishing, promoting, and writing your book. So those became my guests for my master classes. I don’t call them webinars anymore, I call them master classes. I do them at least monthly and it’s a great strategy for offering value to my clients, for educating myself and building my tribe in my community, and offering incredible value to my clients and information that they want and need.

What have you learned about what it takes to expand awareness of your thought leadership in a new area?

Becky: That seems like a great strategy. So I’m wondering, Cathy, what you’ve learned about what it takes to expand awareness of your thought leadership in this new area?

Cathy: Well, I think continuing to write. So I didn’t just write the first book, I have written several books in the space. So my first book was On Your Mark: From First Word to First Draft in Six Weeks which was the fundamentals/basics of the process. My next book, written a couple years later, was Blog2Book: Repurposing Content to Discover the Book You’ve Already Written, which came to me again, as a result of listening to people. I was attending a conference of the National Speakers Association and within four hours, I had four people come up to me and say, “Cathy, I love what you’re doing. I really think that I need you to work with me. I’ve been blogging for several years and I feel like there’s a book there. Maybe you could help me put it together?” I’m thinking, oh my gosh, that’s a service I should be offering. And then I thought, oh, my gosh, that’s a book I should be writing. Then I wrote it as a blog book, meaning I repurposed a lot of the blog content that I had been writing. So I actually modeled a blog to book. And then my next book was The Speaker Author, because I found that a lot of my authors did not know how to leverage their books into growing their businesses, which is kind of my fundamental reason for helping people write books, is to grow a business. So I wrote The Speaker Author as a way for my clients to better understand the magic, the power of a book, to grow your business, and to use it in a smart and effective way.

What challenges have you encountered?

Becky: Thanks, Cathy. I’m curious about any challenges you’ve encountered on your journey?

Cathy: This has been the most magical journey. It’s, in some ways, been a long journey. It’s been seven plus years, but it has been so much fun. So it’s been hard work, but it’s been easy, if you know what I mean. It has just been a labor of love. I know, I work hard at what I do, but it has been so enjoyable, and so rewarding. So, yeah, I feel like I’m in the zone.

What are you most hoping to achieve?

Becky: That’s amazing. So Cathy, I’m wondering what you’re most hoping to achieve?

Cathy: What I say now to my authors is that, as speakers and authors, I believe that we can and do change the world, one word at a time, and we make a difference. My authors are all trying to make the world a better place in some way in their corner of the world. And that’s what I want folks to do. In stepping into thought leadership, they are really stepping into bringing their whole potential to the world and they’re also helping bring others into their full potential. So it is this wonderful cycle of developing and growing and becoming more.

Becky: So how will you know when you’ve achieved your highest goals for your work in the world?

Cathy: Well, I have no plans to retire, even though I’m technically at retirement age, so I’m just enjoying the process. I plan to have a more condensed workweek, but I’m continuing to work and I have no plans to quit, because I love what I’m doing. So until no one needs me anymore or calls on me, then I will be offering my services to aspiring authors.

How has generosity played a role in your journey?

Becky: So I’m curious, Cathy, what role has generosity played on your journey?

Cathy: You know, people have been so generous with me. One of the things I love about the National Speakers Association is that it is an organization of caring and sharing, and I love being a part of that. And that really suits me and fits me. I find that the more generous I am in helping others, I believe that there are times to provide a break for folks or give them a leg up or help them in ways that are sort of beyond the call of duty, and I love doing that. So being generous is definitely a philosophy that I have, that the more generous I am, the more generous the world is to me. It’s not me doing one to make the other happen but it’s just it seems to me you can’t be generous and not have it come back to benefit you in some way.

Do you think you’re famous?

Becky: Thank you. I’m curious, Cathy, do you think you’re famous?

Cathy: I don’t think I’m really famous, like a celebrity famous, but in my own little corner of the world, you think there is maybe some fame there. I’ve certainly helped a lot of people and a lot of people give me credit for being the encourager that has helped them go on to achieve things that are on their bucket list, like writing a book. So that has been fun. And maybe in that way, I’m a little bit famous.

Is there anything about building thought leadership or building influence online that you wish I’d asked you?

Becky: A little bit famous, I like that. So Cathy, is there anything about building thought leadership online or building influence online that you wish I’d asked you so that you could share it with our audience?

Cathy: I think continuing to really pay attention to what your clients are asking you for, what they need and writing on those things, writing books, or writing blogs, or writing content around those things. So paying attention to what your people are saying, what your tribe is saying. Really listening, asking good questions, and I think that’s part of what it means to be a thought leader.

What is a tribe and what does your tribe mean to you?

Becky: So I want to pick up on one more thing. A few times on this call, Cathy, you’ve mentioned your tribe. So how do you know who your tribe is and what does your tribe mean to you?

Cathy: I’m a big fan of Seth Godin’s book, Tribes, and I read that early on in my book coaching career. So it really struck me because as I was reading it I was thinking, “Oh, yeah, this is what authors need to do.” We’re all building our tribe, we’re all building a community of folks who are interconnected and support one another, and are here for one another. So it’s not just clients, that doesn’t do it justice. My tribe, they may be business partners, like you, Becky, other publishing partners, I’m not a publisher, I’m not an editor. So it’s thinking about all the folks who come together to help one another in making the world a better place, one word at a time. So it’s the totality of that, it’s this big community that is absolutely connected to one another in amazing sorts of ways. I love that about the work that I do.

How do you set expectations with the authors you’re coaching?

Becky: Thank you. I have one last question. I’m curious about how you help authors set expectations for what a book can do in their work and in their businesses, because I heard you say earlier in our conversation, books are magical?

Cathy: They are, but as I say they’re magical. It’s sort of like books are like having a magic wand. They don’t do magic on their own, you have to wield the magic wand. You have to know how to use the magic wand. And I think that’s true with a book. Just writing the book and putting it out there in the world is not going to create magic. Now, there may be some that just happens, but it’s unlikely. But it’s how you use the tool. It’s how you give it away, how you offer it to others, how you gift it sometimes to others, how you repurpose the content, how you get it out there in the world. So you’re making the most of that opportunity. You’re looking for opportunities to do interviews, you’re looking for opportunities to do presentations, to do podcasts, to do all types of different events that will get your thought leadership out in the world. That’s where I think some of this magic starts to happen.

Action Steps

Becky: Today’s action steps are specifically for those of you who aspire to write books, but haven’t written them yet. If you are someone who’s always dreamed of being an author, but you haven’t yet written a book, I would encourage you to think about my conversation with Cathy, and her idea that books are magic. 

I’d encourage you to either journal about or talk to a friend about what the magic is that you hope a book that you might write, would have in the world and for your business. I encourage you to let that sink in and motivate you toward your next steps on your author journey. The second action step for those of you who aspire to write books is to identify a partner for this early part of outlining what type of book you might want to write and how you might bring it to the world. Cathy Fyock is a great person to contact. You can find her at her website, or I’d always be happy to talk with you about your writing dreams. If not Cathy or me, you may have a friend who could be a great asset to you on your journey. I would encourage you, as an action step of listening to today’s podcast, to contact someone, Cathy or a friend in your life, who can be an encouragement to you to move closer to your goal of publishing a book.ResourcesLearn more about Cathy Fyock and the work she does in the world.Connect with Cathy on Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube. 

If you found value in today’s episode, we hope you’ll take a moment to share it with someone else who might benefit from it. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to cover, please email Becky Robinson here.

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The post Cathy Fyock’s Author Journey appeared first on Weaving Influence.

One Author’s Approach to Her Book Website

We often talk about the importance of having a web presence, or an online home (your website) where people can find you, gather more information, and sign up to stay in touch with you. As an author, this is critically important. Sure, people can find you on social media (which is one piece of the puzzle), but your entire audience may not be on those platforms, and you don’t own or control those platforms. What happens if something goes awry and you can no longer access your content, or stay in touch with your networks? This is why we recommend having an online home. 

Now, there are two main schools of thought when it comes to author websites: you can house all of your content, books, and information under one domain. Or, you can have different domains for your different books (if you’ve authored more than one) or for the work you do in the world.

We talked with April Rinne, author of FLUX: 8 Superpowers for Thriving in Constant Change, about her web approach. 

What was most important for you in building a web presence for your forthcoming book?

I wanted my book to convey the message of Flux clearly and elegantly. I hoped to excite and inspire people to think about their relationship to change, to provide useful content (for potential readers, media, etc. – even if they don’t read the book), and to connect the concept of Flux back to me.

What do you hope to accomplish by having a separate web presence for your book?

This was a decision that I and my amazing designer, Elan Morgan, took seriously. At the beginning I was not sure if I would have one site (i.e. book featured somewhere on my April Rinne website, or a new stand-alone Flux website. But the more we discussed options, the clearer it became that having a stand-alone website for Flux was the better option. Among the factors that influenced this decision are:

There is already a lot of information on my April Rinne website. Adding Flux could both make it cluttered / overwhelming, and dilute the power of Flux. With a stand-alone site, I was far less restricted in terms of how much could be shared.My personal and book websites have different branding, but they are complementary. They link with each other. Think 1+1=11!Flux is my book, but it is about far more than me. A separate site allows me to go far beyond what I might put on my personal website… opening new doors, which I love.My personal website has received extremely good feedback over the years. I didn’t want to mess with a good thing. Again, part of why it works well is because it’s clearly presented and not overwhelming. There was concern that a book—and all the information I wanted to include alongside it—could make it cluttered and lose some of that value.How do you envision your two websites contributing to your overall work?

My personal website allows people to get to know me, even beyond Flux. It’s my full personal story (i.e. less emphasis on my professional bio), my advisory work, things I’ve written (not about Flux, per se), etc…. even my handstands around the world! Not all of that makes sense for a book website. My Flux website, in contrast, is exclusively about my book, the Flux message and concept, Flux Mindset and Flux Superpowers, etc. With time it will also include more Flux press, etc. as well. Flux links back to who I am—and how and why I wrote the book—yet it also goes beyond it. Both clearly contribute to my work, by focusing on different aspects of it. Again, I hope it creates a kind of 1+1=11 momentum!

What, if any, advice do you have for other authors about how to view their web presence for their book(s)?

It depends on what kind of book you’re writing, of course, but I always try to show up fully for my websites. What conveys the essence of me and the ideas I’m trying to get into the world? It’s important to have clear, clean site navigation and such, but beyond that…what makes you, you? Put that on your site. I’ve often been told that my sites show my personality and authenticity. I love that. Cookie-cutter websites aren’t interesting. Sites that are merely advertisements aren’t interesting. Make your website an extension of you—be more creative than you might otherwise be—shine and share that with the world!

No matter which option you choose (one website or multiple) you ultimately have to do what is best for you, your brand, and your book or business. However, I’d like to leave you with one piece of advice: make it easy for people to find out more about you, stay in touch, and connect with you (like April has done). 

If you’re an author or aspiring author and would like to strategically weigh your options as it relates to your web presence, we’d love to hear from you. Email Becky Robinson at becky@weavinginfluence.com. 

More about April Rinne

A World Economic Forum Young Global Leader and ranked one of the “50 Leading Female Futurists” in the world by Forbes, April Rinne is a change navigator: she helps individuals and organizations rethink and reshape their relationship with change, uncertainty, and a world in flux. She’s a trusted advisor, speaker, investor, adventurer (100+ countries), insatiable handstander, and author of Flux: 8 Superpowers for Thriving in Constant Change (on-sale August 24, 2021). Learn more about her (two!) websites at fluxmindset.com and aprilrinne.com.

The post One Author’s Approach to Her Book Website appeared first on Weaving Influence.

Episode 56: The Role of an Editor In Your Author Journey

Photo by Antonio Diaz / 123rf.com

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Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. In this episode, we are joined by Neal Maillet—Editorial Director at Berrett-Koehler Publishers, Inc.

About Neal Maillet

Becky: I’m so excited that today I have with me, Neal Maillet from Berrett-Koehler publishers, he happens to be my editor. I’m going to let Neal tell you a little bit about his work as an editor over the years. And then we’re going to talk some about my author journey, like I said, in hopes that you’ll get a glimpse into what it’s like to partner with a traditional publisher and today specifically, the role that an editor plays on that journey. Welcome, Neal!

Neal: Thanks for having me. Wonderful to be working with you and talk about books, which is my favorite topic. I think yours too. I pretty much have had only one job in my life after college, which is working in book publishing. I’m not sure that I know about anything else, frankly. But luckily, I’ve been able to fight off imposter syndrome for 30 some odd years and work on books. I’ve always worked in nonfiction. I’ve always worked in editorial. I kind of stumbled my way into working on business books or books about career, business. It wasn’t my first choice honestly, I wanted to work on novels. I wanted to go have, like, Martini lunches at the Algonquin hotel and discuss great matters of intellectual weight. And then I ended up doing books on building mail order businesses and consulting. That was my first editing job at Wiley and I realized I loved that. I loved how clear it was whether a book was helping people or not, when you were working on books that were about things like that. 

So that’s pretty much been where I’ve been. My life as an editor, I’ve moved on to Jossey Bass Inc. in San Francisco, working there for many years. And a lot of the people I worked with at Jossey-Bass Inc. have made their way to Berrett-Koehler. So that’s kind of how I made my way to Berrett-Koehler, which is another nonfiction-only press, not just doing business titles, we also do books kind of in progressive current events. Also some personal growth books. So they kind of run the gamut of self-improvement. Our mission is creating a world that works for all. So all of our books have to have some positive change that happens when you read the book. And I also find that, again, kind of reassuring and fun to know that any book we work on has a clear kind of benefit at the end of it. You come out the other end of the book, possibly as a writer and as the author, and you have specific changes that you’re gonna make, and so that’s sort of what I do. I help authors just get clear on that and I love my job.

How many books do you work on in any given year?

Becky: Very cool. So I’m curious how many books do you work on in any given year, Neal?

Neal: Yeah, I took over the editorial department last year, and so my number went down. But it’s been pretty consistent over my career where I’ve been working on about 16 to 20 books a year. Of course, that means I’m signing up to 16 to 20 and then I’m also editing the books that I signed up the previous year. So really, it’s more at any given time,  juggling probably close to 30 titles or topics, which I think is good for authors to know. It means that sometimes I may seem like I’m not super focused on your book. I worry sometimes that authors feel like I’m not invested in their book if I’m like really, really deep into somebody else’s author crisis. So the way that it tends to work is we segment our time pretty carefully. So once I’m working on somebody’s manuscript, I’m 100% focused on that. So it’s kind of episodic that way. But that’s a way to kind of keep so many books kind of going through the system and keeping the company’s doors open.

How do you balance the author books you’re currently working on and the proposals in your email?

Becky: How do you balance the need to give attention to the authors whose books you’re currently working to bring to publication, and then the many proposals that probably land in your email?

Neal: Yeah, this is something I’ve mentioned to some other author groups and talks. I think often, sometimes people get a little bit surprised by this. But for me, even though the most important job that I have is selecting the books that will publish in terms of time, the time that gets kind of pushed down to the bottom is considering new proposal ideas, because I’m usually having to make sure that once the book gets signed up, it’s on a train schedule. We can’t miss the schedule, or some bad things happen later. So that’s always going to trump other things. So what ends up happening sometimes, is the proposals kind of pile up a little bit, and then I have to slam through them, reading them. I might read 20 proposals in an hour, or something like that, really kind of going through, so that probably horrifies authors who are working so hard on their proposals. The thing that I would tell authors who might be listening to this, and wanting to get an editor’s attention, it just kind of proves how much of a premium there is on your introduction, your cover letter. You kind of have to win me over in the first few paragraphs of your proposal, and that’s probably it. So what ends up happening is I scan them, and then once that kind of jump out is possibly promising, they get kind of set aside and then I might spend some more time on them. So that’s just kind of the hard facts about this business.

What is the reality of the amount of traffic there is for traditional publishing? 

Becky: Well, I find it fascinating. I know prior to having my own proposal accepted by Berrett-Koehler publishers, I was definitely aware that you get hundreds, if not thousands of proposals every year. So can you talk a little bit about that, for those who might be listening, to give them a reality check on the amount of traffic there is for traditional publishing? 

Neal: So I’ve counted up mine, I get anywhere from 400 to 500 proposals that come directly to me. Keep in mind that we have an email address that’s generally available submissions@bkpub.com and bkconnection.com. That is kind of vetted by our assistant editor who’s responsible for doing kind of the same thing I’ve just been describing to you. But she’s doing it more on the associate level, screening things and then maybe passing them on to me. She’s getting several a day, and she might give me like one every week or two, to look over, like, “Hey, this might be interesting to you.” So I’m seeing some of those, and then some that come directly to me. So I’m getting at least one proposal a day, probably more like two or three. And then I’m usually going to try to carve out time on Friday. 

What ends up happening is I get through the week, I’m putting out fires, things are happening, and then, like, I haven’t looked at any proposals this week. And it is true that there’s a time factor with proposals, too. I don’t want to find out that I had the proposal for the next Good to Great, or The 4-Hour Workweek and if I had only gotten back to that author or agent earlier, that might have been my book. So I’m not happy about maybe having to put off reading them. But it’s kind of a risk I guess I run. So on Friday, I’ll usually end up doing it on Fridays when things tend to quiet down, and then I just kind of power through the proposals that week, and it is a little bit a triage thing sometimes. I mean the truth is, again, I’m giving you some of the dirty underbelly of our business. I will kind of read the first paragraph and if you get me in that first paragraph or two of the proposal, I immediately jump to the author’s bio. I want to see, who is this person? Are people listening to them? Is this person a thought leader? If you have a great book idea, and this is obviously why you’re in business, Becky, and nobody knows you’re there or alive, that great book idea is gonna probably not go too far. So I do have to see that people are already following you. It’s a long haul, as you try to tell your authors. 

And then the third place I go to is the marketing plan. Do you know how to sell yourself? Do you have stuff online? So then I go back and then I really start to dig into the kind of editorial ideas, because I don’t want to have to use my brain cells to really figure out if your book idea is good until I know that you have the engine to sell it. So that’s kind of my thought process reading through proposals. I think authors would be horrified. But, one thing when I was an editorial assistant, I started at Bantam Books and I was there when they were publishing authors, like Tom Wolfe and Nathaniel Branden. I think like some other big names, Louise Erdrich, she was one of the authors that my editor worked with. The proposals all came in with 8 by 10 glossies of the authors, which horrified me. I thought, “this is disgraceful.” But they were in the entertainment business, we’re talking about one of the big New York corporate publishers, and they did take into account how good of a glossy picture the author’s gonna have. I still don’t exactly agree with that, and that does not happen with me, but it just shows you that publishers look at your book as it’s a business proposal. It’s a business investment. Publishers are going to think about how much risk there is of me getting my money back if I spend $30,000 to $50,000, which is about the average investment. So anyways, I don’t know why I brought that weird thing up.

Becky: Oh, that’s funny. I love that insider view. I think you’ve probably seen and done a lot of things that our listeners would find interesting. So we might have to circle back on some of those publishing stories. 

Once you have a good idea, can you sell the book?

Becky: So we’ve talked a little bit about your process in vetting proposals, but I want to make sure that I emphasize what you said, which is that editors are looking at each proposal as a business decision and a business investment and, maybe more important, once you have a good idea, is can you sell the book?

Neal: I think, as the editor, maybe I’m presuming too much, but I think I have a certain amount of persuasion and sway inside the company that this is a good book idea, this is an author worth listening to. So I usually get those points for that, as a given. The part that I really need to start selling to my colleagues, because I don’t just make the decision, “Oh, we’re going to publish it.” I decided, like, “Hey, this is a good decision, this is a good investment. I like this author. I think this is a good title.” Now I have to convince sales and marketing, that they’re going to be able to sell it. 

So a lot of my energy internally in the company is more focused on that side of it. And again, I don’t think authors are completely aware that most of the discussion inside the company is going to be about that sales and marketing piece and publicity. Most of your conversations with your editor, one hopes, is about the content, the quality, the ideas, you’re going to get all that. But that’s kind of like a one-on-one thing with your editor. Most of the work that is for the publisher is around, “How do we sell this thing?” and “Is the author going to be the chief marketing and sales officer?” Because if the author is just going to sit around and wait for the publisher to figure it out, it’s not going to work.

Becky: That’s really powerful. 

How did you evaluate my book proposal?

Becky: So for a minute, let’s talk a little bit about how I got here to having a book contract with Berrett-Koehler publishers. I remember Neal, when you called me to offer me the contract, I was wishing that we had recorded it because I thought it would have been a really helpful conversation for others to hear.

So I’m not asking for you to like sing my praises or anything right now, but I do think it would be interesting for you to share for a minute about how you evaluated my proposal. And just before we go there, for everyone who’s listening, if you haven’t read some of the blog posts that I’ve been writing about my author journey, I brought several ideas to Neal over the years before I got him to say yes to one. And when I did finally craft an entire proposal, it was the first time, but it was only because Neal said no. And then in July, I think it was, we had a call and I shared my latest idea with you. And you said, “yes, I’d look at a proposal for that.” It only took me about six months probably to get it in your inbox. So let’s pick up the story there.

Neal: I think what’s fun about this book and you is that it’s kind of a weird synchronicity of your message to your clients and to people who hire you. You’ve eaten your own cooking because you’ve gone through that same process personally, and you’re writing a book and you’ve been rejected and told no early on. It really was kind of that same, you had really good book ideas probably, when I first met you, when we first started discussing books, but you didn’t have the brand yet that made me feel confident. Like, “Oh, this is going to be a great investment.” And then interestingly by the time you circled around with this last book idea, and I’ve kind of known you the past few years, it suddenly just hit me like, she’s a brand. She’s not the same Becky Robinson I spoke to in 2012 where you had a certain email list, and you were building your business. It hit me kind of as like a thunderclap like, oh, this is a completely different kind of book discussion now. So you had the great book idea, which is kind of why the conversation got started in the first place, but then it kind of hit me all of a sudden, that you have the marketing engine now that is kind of at the top of your class. 

It’s funny, when I sent you the email when I got a yes from my colleagues, you got through the meeting, I had a picture of that scene in Bull Durham, when the phone call comes through, I can’t remember if Tim Robbins is the actor who plays that, luckily, you’re a much better book figure than he was as a pitcher. But it’s like, you’re going to the show, and that was exactly what it seemed like to me. You’re definitely in the major league kind of echelon now, as somebody who’s really earned your stripes and kind of did the hard work of building your platform and your brand. But without a great book idea, it’s a really weird balance. If you had had all of that, and your book idea is like, it’s okay, that wouldn’t work. If you have an amazing book idea, which I’m sure some of your book ideas were probably great when I first started talking to you, but there’s this kind of balance between the two. That’s why you’re writing a book right now and not probably spending as much time with your kids as you should.

Becky: Haha! Well, for those who might be listening, like what I really feel and I want to emphasize what you said, it’s not only about having a platform, you also have to have a great idea. And it’s not only about having a great idea, you also have to have a platform. Thanks, thanks so much. It’s so fun to share this journey with you and with the rest of the team at BK. 

What is your role as an editor? Where do you give your attention along the journey?

Becky: So Neal, this has been such a fun conversation to reflect on all the different things that came together for me to be doing a book now. What I want to do now is give our listeners a glimpse about the role of an editor once you get to this point. So you mentioned 500 proposals that you see every year, 16 to 20, you offer a contract to based on feedback from the rest of the publication board. So then you’re really journeying with those 16 to 20 authors a year from the initial idea and concept in the proposal to the publication of the book, which in my case from signing, the contract is going to be about 14 months. So talk about the role that you have as an editor and what the different places are, because you explain that you kind of have different moments that you step in. You’re not necessarily giving an author all of your attention all the time. So what are the key places along the journey?

Neal: Yeah, that’s a good question. Because I think it’s actually changed in the industry since I started editing. As an editor, I hate to say, my first publishing job was in 1987. So that kind of tells you how long I’ve been around. And at that time, actually, the pressure on the platform, it was there, but it wasn’t as heavy. More unknowns could kind of break out, because there was just a massive number of bookstores and the book industry was much bigger than it is now, frankly. So I spent a lot of my time my first years, doing what we call line editing. Going through, line by line, and really reworking the content and sending drafts back to the author. 

Now, I’m caught, partly as a part of the workflow, but also part of the way that I think the book industry has changed, my time is more episodic. Meaning that, once I get a book signed up, as has happened in your case, a lot of effort goes into the concept at the start, and that’s one reason why we pick the title so early. It used to be really like, why would you pick a title until the book is done? How can you title something until you know what this thing is? Because it’s gonna come out a little differently than you expected. So that’s how, I’m looking back and kind of amazed to remember that it was like that. Now, we pretty much set the title, possibly before the author’s even started writing, and part of that is to help get the author clear on the concept that the book is selling. Like, what’s the message? Because the writing is going to go a lot better if that’s super clear up front, and then the author’s just doing variations on the theme, rather than going off into the wilderness and trying to figure out the plum of your soul and how do I put that on paper? So, there’s a lot of intense focus, when you get started. 

Then I go away, unless you have a podcast, which was very clever of you to get me back and get some attention. But I go away, because I’m now doing that work with other authors, and then the author is kind of trying to fulfill that vision. We have reviewers at Berrett-Koehler who do most of that line work and kind of line-by-line commentary. We still provide that, but my work has to be more on the bigger picture of, “is that vision happening? Did the author really fulfill the plan?” And so, again, I’m looking more at the conceptual purity, if you will. 

So when the manuscript comes in, I give another bunch of really concentrated time, where I’m thinking more of what I would call developmental editing versus line editing. I think people think of movies and stuff, where the editors got a big manuscript, and I’m project manager on like maybe 40 things at a given time. So I don’t have that. Maybe there was time in the business, at one time, for me to spend three days line editing a manuscript. I now have to kind of portion my time a little more to give that work more to the reviewers, and sometimes to other developmental editors, but I’m going through the reviews, and also figuring out what developmentally and subject wise is happening in the book. Then giving the author maybe some feedback on, “you’re writing a chapter on book marketing, but you forgot to mention the internet” or something. So that’s kind of where I’m coming from.

Then the author goes away for another month, and works on that. And then hopefully, the final manuscript comes in and is perfect. And, in our process at Berrett-Koehler, I think the way we do that, we very, very rarely get to the finish line, and the book isn’t really what we were hoping for, and ready to go into production. In other publishers, there’s often a train that derails at that point, like something just went wrong along the way. The author didn’t really get the support and feedback, and the whole book gets delayed. Sorry, it’s gonna have to come out six months later. So I think our process is pretty good. It’s not like constant attention, but it’s also a little more strategic. I don’t know if  any of that made sense. It made sense to me.

What role does the publisher have in proofreading? 

Becky: No, it definitely made sense. I think the one thing that’s not clear to me is what happens as it relates to the fine tune proofreading. Is that the responsibility of the author? What role does the publisher have? 

Neal: So there’s a certain amount of just general fact checking and feedback that’s happening in the process of the first draft and the early drafts. I will go in and do some spot checks. Like my favorite pet peeve is every inspirational quote you’re gonna find on the internet from Gandhi or Mother Teresa is false. He never said those things and people put them in books because it sounds great. So one of my first things is just to kind of spot check some of the factual stuff and if it looks like the author’s being really careful then I relax my guard on that. So there’s a little bit of that point work that I do. 

But what’s really called copy editing, where the person is going to go word by word through that book, happens after I’m out of the picture. So my job is to make sure the book makes sense, and it’s marketable and going to be something somebody wants to read. But it’s the copy editor, who’s probably going to spend upwards of 40-50 hours possibly going line by line and making sure everything is spelled properly, proper grammar, proper style and usage. Asking questions, saying “This doesn’t make sense.” So that happens after, when it’s in production, essentially. It’s very detailed, but it’s also a different part of the brain than I use. I would say that’s more like the left brain, very technical. Whereas I’m more the right brain, putting myself more in the shoes of the reader. 

If a copy editor does a job well, the reader will never even know they were there. Because what they’re doing is more invisible in terms of making sure all the rules are followed, and then there’s another stage of proofreading the galleys. They’re not really galleys anymore, but when the copy edit is done, you’ve approved everything the copy editor suggests, it gets put into type, and then you’ll get it again to really double check that what you asked the copy editor to do happened, that something didn’t get skipped or missed that that was supposed to happen. So we do like it when the author spends some time on that proof going through it. We obviously proofread it ourselves. So there’s quite a bit of quality check down the road, but it’s not like rewriting at that point, it’s not like, “oh, I wanted to mention the afterlife,” or something like that. 

What should authors expect with an editor?

Becky: Ha, that is awesome. So, Neil, what else should I know about working with an editor? Or What else should our listeners know if they choose to go the route of traditional publication? What to expect with an editor?

Neal: Yeah, I think we’re aware that there are arguments not to work with mainstream publishers. So we think a lot about what value we bring to an author, and I think what an editor does isn’t just provide his or her own feedback or opinion on your book. A good editor is a coach, project manager, team leader, advocate. I’m feeding feedback to the author from the book designer production, marketing department, my colleagues in editorial, it’s really kind of like it takes a village sort of approach. So working with a traditional publisher, like Berrett-Koehler, and working with an editor like me, it’s more that you’re getting a community built around your book. So you’re getting this real team approach and that’s something you’re just going to miss if you go through some other routes that may be quicker. 

So along with that, is the knowledge that sometimes you have to be a bit open minded as an author as well. You’re going to hear feedback on something you thought was working, and four of the five people I asked are saying that doesn’t work, we even had a little bit of that with your title. I don’t know, maybe a sore topic, but we went through some rounds in the title, and titles that I thought would work and you thought would work got pushback, and we kind of had to really push through that. And you were really good. I would say doctors make the worst patients, but you were very good at realizing even though you were in a position of having to hear the advice, which is probably not usual for you. And it does mean you’re going to hear things that other people feel aren’t working. I think the authors who are able to hear that doesn’t mean you have to do everything people ask you to do in this process. Ultimately, that is the reason why you work with a publisher, because you’re gonna end up with a book you could never have done just on your own. You’re gonna get some objective help. The cool part about working with a traditional publisher, the pays in advance and all that, is you’re not paying for that. I mean, ultimately, you’re maybe getting less royalty on the other side than if you publish it yourself, but it, I think, is a pretty good business deal for most authors to get all of that labor into improving your book. You’re not paying them on the clock. It’s kind of their job at the publisher to invest in you that way.

Becky: Yeah, it’s incredible. In case you missed it, Neal did say that most book projects include about $30,000 to $50,000 of investment from the publisher, bringing that book to market. So that’s a huge investment, and I’m honored that Berrett-Koehler has faith in me to make that kind of investment in me and my book. 

What’s the most important thing an author can do who’s aspiring to have a traditional publisher? 

Becky: So any kind of parting advice for those who might be listening who are at the place of aspiring someday, and really saying, wow a traditional publisher sounds like what I might like. What’s the most important thing they can do? I know what I would tell them, but I’m curious what you would tell them.

Neal: 

Learn the business! If you’re in these topics, this may sound like weird advice, because I particularly mentioned a blog by the publisher Bard Press, Todd Sattersten, just because he talks a lot about what editors are looking for and what books are working. So learn the business. Don’t just go to his blog, per se, but listen to podcasts like this, try to learn the book of business as well as what you want to write, because you’ll begin to think a little differently about fulfilling your own vision for a book. But starting to learn how editors think, what publishers are looking for, and it’ll just kind of begin to change how you present your book. It won’t ultimately be working in your favor if your pitch is, “I’m so excited about my book, like my family wants me to publish this book.” It has to be, “I’ve studied other books like this, and my book is going to sell more, do more good, because I’m putting this into it.” So I think it’s just getting a mindset from really studying editors and thought leaders in whatever category you’re working in, so that you’re not just talking about your ideas.

ResourcesLearn more about Berrett-Koehler Publishers, here. Click here for Proposal Guidelines for Berrett-Koehler Publishers. Check out Bard Press’s blog, here. Connect with Berret Koehler on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. Connect with Neal Maillet on LinkedIn. 

If you found value in today’s episode, we hope you’ll take a moment to share it with someone else who might benefit from it. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to cover, please email Becky Robinson here.

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The post Episode 56: The Role of an Editor In Your Author Journey appeared first on Weaving Influence.

The Role of an Editor In Your Author Journey

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Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. In this episode, we are joined by Neal Maillet—Editorial Director at Berrett-Koehler Publishers, Inc.

About Neal Maillet

Becky: I’m so excited that today I have with me, Neal Maillet from Berrett-Koehler publishers, he happens to be my editor. I’m going to let Neal tell you a little bit about his work as an editor over the years. And then we’re going to talk some about my author journey, like I said, in hopes that you’ll get a glimpse into what it’s like to partner with a traditional publisher and today specifically, the role that an editor plays on that journey. Welcome, Neal!

Neal: Thanks for having me. Wonderful to be working with you and talk about books, which is my favorite topic. I think yours too. I pretty much have had only one job in my life after college, which is working in book publishing. I’m not sure that I know about anything else, frankly. But luckily, I’ve been able to fight off imposter syndrome for 30 some odd years and work on books. I’ve always worked in nonfiction. I’ve always worked in editorial. I kind of stumbled my way into working on business books or books about career, business. It wasn’t my first choice honestly, I wanted to work on novels. I wanted to go have, like, Martini lunches at the Algonquin hotel and discuss great matters of intellectual weight. And then I ended up doing books on building mail order businesses and consulting. That was my first editing job at Wiley and I realized I loved that. I loved how clear it was whether a book was helping people or not, when you were working on books that were about things like that. 

So that’s pretty much been where I’ve been. My life as an editor, I’ve moved on to Jossey Bass Inc. in San Francisco, working there for many years. And a lot of the people I worked with at Jossey-Bass Inc. have made their way to Berrett-Koehler. So that’s kind of how I made my way to Berrett-Koehler, which is another nonfiction-only press, not just doing business titles, we also do books kind of in progressive current events. Also some personal growth books. So they kind of run the gamut of self-improvement. Our mission is creating a world that works for all. So all of our books have to have some positive change that happens when you read the book. And I also find that, again, kind of reassuring and fun to know that any book we work on has a clear kind of benefit at the end of it. You come out the other end of the book, possibly as a writer and as the author, and you have specific changes that you’re gonna make, and so that’s sort of what I do. I help authors just get clear on that and I love my job.

How many books do you work on in any given year?

Becky: Very cool. So I’m curious how many books do you work on in any given year, Neal?

Neal: Yeah, I took over the editorial department last year, and so my number went down. But it’s been pretty consistent over my career where I’ve been working on about 16 to 20 books a year. Of course, that means I’m signing up to 16 to 20 and then I’m also editing the books that I signed up the previous year. So really, it’s more at any given time,  juggling probably close to 30 titles or topics, which I think is good for authors to know. It means that sometimes I may seem like I’m not super focused on your book. I worry sometimes that authors feel like I’m not invested in their book if I’m like really, really deep into somebody else’s author crisis. So the way that it tends to work is we segment our time pretty carefully. So once I’m working on somebody’s manuscript, I’m 100% focused on that. So it’s kind of episodic that way. But that’s a way to kind of keep so many books kind of going through the system and keeping the company’s doors open.

How do you balance the author books you’re currently working on and the proposals in your email?

Becky: How do you balance the need to give attention to the authors whose books you’re currently working to bring to publication, and then the many proposals that probably land in your email?

Neal: Yeah, this is something I’ve mentioned to some other author groups and talks. I think often, sometimes people get a little bit surprised by this. But for me, even though the most important job that I have is selecting the books that will publish in terms of time, the time that gets kind of pushed down to the bottom is considering new proposal ideas, because I’m usually having to make sure that once the book gets signed up, it’s on a train schedule. We can’t miss the schedule, or some bad things happen later. So that’s always going to trump other things. So what ends up happening sometimes, is the proposals kind of pile up a little bit, and then I have to slam through them, reading them. I might read 20 proposals in an hour, or something like that, really kind of going through, so that probably horrifies authors who are working so hard on their proposals. The thing that I would tell authors who might be listening to this, and wanting to get an editor’s attention, it just kind of proves how much of a premium there is on your introduction, your cover letter. You kind of have to win me over in the first few paragraphs of your proposal, and that’s probably it. So what ends up happening is I scan them, and then once that kind of jump out is possibly promising, they get kind of set aside and then I might spend some more time on them. So that’s just kind of the hard facts about this business.

What is the reality of the amount of traffic there is for traditional publishing? 

Becky: Well, I find it fascinating. I know prior to having my own proposal accepted by Berrett-Koehler publishers, I was definitely aware that you get hundreds, if not thousands of proposals every year. So can you talk a little bit about that, for those who might be listening, to give them a reality check on the amount of traffic there is for traditional publishing? 

Neal: So I’ve counted up mine, I get anywhere from 400 to 500 proposals that come directly to me. Keep in mind that we have an email address that’s generally available submissions@bkpub.com and bkconnection.com. That is kind of vetted by our assistant editor who’s responsible for doing kind of the same thing I’ve just been describing to you. But she’s doing it more on the associate level, screening things and then maybe passing them on to me. She’s getting several a day, and she might give me like one every week or two, to look over, like, “Hey, this might be interesting to you.” So I’m seeing some of those, and then some that come directly to me. So I’m getting at least one proposal a day, probably more like two or three. And then I’m usually going to try to carve out time on Friday. 

What ends up happening is I get through the week, I’m putting out fires, things are happening, and then, like, I haven’t looked at any proposals this week. And it is true that there’s a time factor with proposals, too. I don’t want to find out that I had the proposal for the next Good to Great, or The 4-Hour Workweek and if I had only gotten back to that author or agent earlier, that might have been my book. So I’m not happy about maybe having to put off reading them. But it’s kind of a risk I guess I run. So on Friday, I’ll usually end up doing it on Fridays when things tend to quiet down, and then I just kind of power through the proposals that week, and it is a little bit a triage thing sometimes. I mean the truth is, again, I’m giving you some of the dirty underbelly of our business. I will kind of read the first paragraph and if you get me in that first paragraph or two of the proposal, I immediately jump to the author’s bio. I want to see, who is this person? Are people listening to them? Is this person a thought leader? If you have a great book idea, and this is obviously why you’re in business, Becky, and nobody knows you’re there or alive, that great book idea is gonna probably not go too far. So I do have to see that people are already following you. It’s a long haul, as you try to tell your authors. 

And then the third place I go to is the marketing plan. Do you know how to sell yourself? Do you have stuff online? So then I go back and then I really start to dig into the kind of editorial ideas, because I don’t want to have to use my brain cells to really figure out if your book idea is good until I know that you have the engine to sell it. So that’s kind of my thought process reading through proposals. I think authors would be horrified. But, one thing when I was an editorial assistant, I started at Bantam Books and I was there when they were publishing authors, like Tom Wolfe and Nathaniel Branden. I think like some other big names, Louise Erdrich, she was one of the authors that my editor worked with. The proposals all came in with 8 by 10 glossies of the authors, which horrified me. I thought, “this is disgraceful.” But they were in the entertainment business, we’re talking about one of the big New York corporate publishers, and they did take into account how good of a glossy picture the author’s gonna have. I still don’t exactly agree with that, and that does not happen with me, but it just shows you that publishers look at your book as it’s a business proposal. It’s a business investment. Publishers are going to think about how much risk there is of me getting my money back if I spend $30,000 to $50,000, which is about the average investment. So anyways, I don’t know why I brought that weird thing up.

Becky: Oh, that’s funny. I love that insider view. I think you’ve probably seen and done a lot of things that our listeners would find interesting. So we might have to circle back on some of those publishing stories. 

Once you have a good idea, can you sell the book?

Becky: So we’ve talked a little bit about your process in vetting proposals, but I want to make sure that I emphasize what you said, which is that editors are looking at each proposal as a business decision and a business investment and, maybe more important, once you have a good idea, is can you sell the book?

Neal: I think, as the editor, maybe I’m presuming too much, but I think I have a certain amount of persuasion and sway inside the company that this is a good book idea, this is an author worth listening to. So I usually get those points for that, as a given. The part that I really need to start selling to my colleagues, because I don’t just make the decision, “Oh, we’re going to publish it.” I decided, like, “Hey, this is a good decision, this is a good investment. I like this author. I think this is a good title.” Now I have to convince sales and marketing, that they’re going to be able to sell it. 

So a lot of my energy internally in the company is more focused on that side of it. And again, I don’t think authors are completely aware that most of the discussion inside the company is going to be about that sales and marketing piece and publicity. Most of your conversations with your editor, one hopes, is about the content, the quality, the ideas, you’re going to get all that. But that’s kind of like a one-on-one thing with your editor. Most of the work that is for the publisher is around, “How do we sell this thing?” and “Is the author going to be the chief marketing and sales officer?” Because if the author is just going to sit around and wait for the publisher to figure it out, it’s not going to work.

Becky: That’s really powerful. 

How did you evaluate my book proposal?

Becky: So for a minute, let’s talk a little bit about how I got here to having a book contract with Berrett-Koehler publishers. I remember Neal, when you called me to offer me the contract, I was wishing that we had recorded it because I thought it would have been a really helpful conversation for others to hear.

So I’m not asking for you to like sing my praises or anything right now, but I do think it would be interesting for you to share for a minute about how you evaluated my proposal. And just before we go there, for everyone who’s listening, if you haven’t read some of the blog posts that I’ve been writing about my author journey, I brought several ideas to Neal over the years before I got him to say yes to one. And when I did finally craft an entire proposal, it was the first time, but it was only because Neal said no. And then in July, I think it was, we had a call and I shared my latest idea with you. And you said, “yes, I’d look at a proposal for that.” It only took me about six months probably to get it in your inbox. So let’s pick up the story there.

Neal: I think what’s fun about this book and you is that it’s kind of a weird synchronicity of your message to your clients and to people who hire you. You’ve eaten your own cooking because you’ve gone through that same process personally, and you’re writing a book and you’ve been rejected and told no early on. It really was kind of that same, you had really good book ideas probably, when I first met you, when we first started discussing books, but you didn’t have the brand yet that made me feel confident. Like, “Oh, this is going to be a great investment.” And then interestingly by the time you circled around with this last book idea, and I’ve kind of known you the past few years, it suddenly just hit me like, she’s a brand. She’s not the same Becky Robinson I spoke to in 2012 where you had a certain email list, and you were building your business. It hit me kind of as like a thunderclap like, oh, this is a completely different kind of book discussion now. So you had the great book idea, which is kind of why the conversation got started in the first place, but then it kind of hit me all of a sudden, that you have the marketing engine now that is kind of at the top of your class. 

It’s funny, when I sent you the email when I got a yes from my colleagues, you got through the meeting, I had a picture of that scene in Bull Durham, when the phone call comes through, I can’t remember if Tim Robbins is the actor who plays that, luckily, you’re a much better book figure than he was as a pitcher. But it’s like, you’re going to the show, and that was exactly what it seemed like to me. You’re definitely in the major league kind of echelon now, as somebody who’s really earned your stripes and kind of did the hard work of building your platform and your brand. But without a great book idea, it’s a really weird balance. If you had had all of that, and your book idea is like, it’s okay, that wouldn’t work. If you have an amazing book idea, which I’m sure some of your book ideas were probably great when I first started talking to you, but there’s this kind of balance between the two. That’s why you’re writing a book right now and not probably spending as much time with your kids as you should.

Becky: Haha! Well, for those who might be listening, like what I really feel and I want to emphasize what you said, it’s not only about having a platform, you also have to have a great idea. And it’s not only about having a great idea, you also have to have a platform. Thanks, thanks so much. It’s so fun to share this journey with you and with the rest of the team at BK. 

What is your role as an editor? Where do you give your attention along the journey?

Becky: So Neal, this has been such a fun conversation to reflect on all the different things that came together for me to be doing a book now. What I want to do now is give our listeners a glimpse about the role of an editor once you get to this point. So you mentioned 500 proposals that you see every year, 16 to 20, you offer a contract to based on feedback from the rest of the publication board. So then you’re really journeying with those 16 to 20 authors a year from the initial idea and concept in the proposal to the publication of the book, which in my case from signing, the contract is going to be about 14 months. So talk about the role that you have as an editor and what the different places are, because you explain that you kind of have different moments that you step in. You’re not necessarily giving an author all of your attention all the time. So what are the key places along the journey?

Neal: Yeah, that’s a good question. Because I think it’s actually changed in the industry since I started editing. As an editor, I hate to say, my first publishing job was in 1987. So that kind of tells you how long I’ve been around. And at that time, actually, the pressure on the platform, it was there, but it wasn’t as heavy. More unknowns could kind of break out, because there was just a massive number of bookstores and the book industry was much bigger than it is now, frankly. So I spent a lot of my time my first years, doing what we call line editing. Going through, line by line, and really reworking the content and sending drafts back to the author. 

Now, I’m caught, partly as a part of the workflow, but also part of the way that I think the book industry has changed, my time is more episodic. Meaning that, once I get a book signed up, as has happened in your case, a lot of effort goes into the concept at the start, and that’s one reason why we pick the title so early. It used to be really like, why would you pick a title until the book is done? How can you title something until you know what this thing is? Because it’s gonna come out a little differently than you expected. So that’s how, I’m looking back and kind of amazed to remember that it was like that. Now, we pretty much set the title, possibly before the author’s even started writing, and part of that is to help get the author clear on the concept that the book is selling. Like, what’s the message? Because the writing is going to go a lot better if that’s super clear up front, and then the author’s just doing variations on the theme, rather than going off into the wilderness and trying to figure out the plum of your soul and how do I put that on paper? So, there’s a lot of intense focus, when you get started. 

Then I go away, unless you have a podcast, which was very clever of you to get me back and get some attention. But I go away, because I’m now doing that work with other authors, and then the author is kind of trying to fulfill that vision. We have reviewers at Berrett-Koehler who do most of that line work and kind of line-by-line commentary. We still provide that, but my work has to be more on the bigger picture of, “is that vision happening? Did the author really fulfill the plan?” And so, again, I’m looking more at the conceptual purity, if you will. 

So when the manuscript comes in, I give another bunch of really concentrated time, where I’m thinking more of what I would call developmental editing versus line editing. I think people think of movies and stuff, where the editors got a big manuscript, and I’m project manager on like maybe 40 things at a given time. So I don’t have that. Maybe there was time in the business, at one time, for me to spend three days line editing a manuscript. I now have to kind of portion my time a little more to give that work more to the reviewers, and sometimes to other developmental editors, but I’m going through the reviews, and also figuring out what developmentally and subject wise is happening in the book. Then giving the author maybe some feedback on, “you’re writing a chapter on book marketing, but you forgot to mention the internet” or something. So that’s kind of where I’m coming from.

Then the author goes away for another month, and works on that. And then hopefully, the final manuscript comes in and is perfect. And, in our process at Berrett-Koehler, I think the way we do that, we very, very rarely get to the finish line, and the book isn’t really what we were hoping for, and ready to go into production. In other publishers, there’s often a train that derails at that point, like something just went wrong along the way. The author didn’t really get the support and feedback, and the whole book gets delayed. Sorry, it’s gonna have to come out six months later. So I think our process is pretty good. It’s not like constant attention, but it’s also a little more strategic. I don’t know if  any of that made sense. It made sense to me.

What role does the publisher have in proofreading? 

Becky: No, it definitely made sense. I think the one thing that’s not clear to me is what happens as it relates to the fine tune proofreading. Is that the responsibility of the author? What role does the publisher have? 

Neal: So there’s a certain amount of just general fact checking and feedback that’s happening in the process of the first draft and the early drafts. I will go in and do some spot checks. Like my favorite pet peeve is every inspirational quote you’re gonna find on the internet from Gandhi or Mother Teresa is false. He never said those things and people put them in books because it sounds great. So one of my first things is just to kind of spot check some of the factual stuff and if it looks like the author’s being really careful then I relax my guard on that. So there’s a little bit of that point work that I do. 

But what’s really called copy editing, where the person is going to go word by word through that book, happens after I’m out of the picture. So my job is to make sure the book makes sense, and it’s marketable and going to be something somebody wants to read. But it’s the copy editor, who’s probably going to spend upwards of 40-50 hours possibly going line by line and making sure everything is spelled properly, proper grammar, proper style and usage. Asking questions, saying “This doesn’t make sense.” So that happens after, when it’s in production, essentially. It’s very detailed, but it’s also a different part of the brain than I use. I would say that’s more like the left brain, very technical. Whereas I’m more the right brain, putting myself more in the shoes of the reader. 

If a copy editor does a job well, the reader will never even know they were there. Because what they’re doing is more invisible in terms of making sure all the rules are followed, and then there’s another stage of proofreading the galleys. They’re not really galleys anymore, but when the copy edit is done, you’ve approved everything the copy editor suggests, it gets put into type, and then you’ll get it again to really double check that what you asked the copy editor to do happened, that something didn’t get skipped or missed that that was supposed to happen. So we do like it when the author spends some time on that proof going through it. We obviously proofread it ourselves. So there’s quite a bit of quality check down the road, but it’s not like rewriting at that point, it’s not like, “oh, I wanted to mention the afterlife,” or something like that. 

What should authors expect with an editor?

Becky: Ha, that is awesome. So, Neil, what else should I know about working with an editor? Or What else should our listeners know if they choose to go the route of traditional publication? What to expect with an editor?

Neal: Yeah, I think we’re aware that there are arguments not to work with mainstream publishers. So we think a lot about what value we bring to an author, and I think what an editor does isn’t just provide his or her own feedback or opinion on your book. A good editor is a coach, project manager, team leader, advocate. I’m feeding feedback to the author from the book designer production, marketing department, my colleagues in editorial, it’s really kind of like it takes a village sort of approach. So working with a traditional publisher, like Berrett-Koehler, and working with an editor like me, it’s more that you’re getting a community built around your book. So you’re getting this real team approach and that’s something you’re just going to miss if you go through some other routes that may be quicker. 

So along with that, is the knowledge that sometimes you have to be a bit open minded as an author as well. You’re going to hear feedback on something you thought was working, and four of the five people I asked are saying that doesn’t work, we even had a little bit of that with your title. I don’t know, maybe a sore topic, but we went through some rounds in the title, and titles that I thought would work and you thought would work got pushback, and we kind of had to really push through that. And you were really good. I would say doctors make the worst patients, but you were very good at realizing even though you were in a position of having to hear the advice, which is probably not usual for you. And it does mean you’re going to hear things that other people feel aren’t working. I think the authors who are able to hear that doesn’t mean you have to do everything people ask you to do in this process. Ultimately, that is the reason why you work with a publisher, because you’re gonna end up with a book you could never have done just on your own. You’re gonna get some objective help. The cool part about working with a traditional publisher, the pays in advance and all that, is you’re not paying for that. I mean, ultimately, you’re maybe getting less royalty on the other side than if you publish it yourself, but it, I think, is a pretty good business deal for most authors to get all of that labor into improving your book. You’re not paying them on the clock. It’s kind of their job at the publisher to invest in you that way.

Becky: Yeah, it’s incredible. In case you missed it, Neal did say that most book projects include about $30,000 to $50,000 of investment from the publisher, bringing that book to market. So that’s a huge investment, and I’m honored that Berrett-Koehler has faith in me to make that kind of investment in me and my book. 

What’s the most important thing an author can do who’s aspiring to have a traditional publisher? 

Becky: So any kind of parting advice for those who might be listening who are at the place of aspiring someday, and really saying, wow a traditional publisher sounds like what I might like. What’s the most important thing they can do? I know what I would tell them, but I’m curious what you would tell them.

Neal: 

Learn the business! If you’re in these topics, this may sound like weird advice, because I particularly mentioned a blog by the publisher Bard Press, Todd Sattersten, just because he talks a lot about what editors are looking for and what books are working. So learn the business. Don’t just go to his blog, per se, but listen to podcasts like this, try to learn the book of business as well as what you want to write, because you’ll begin to think a little differently about fulfilling your own vision for a book. But starting to learn how editors think, what publishers are looking for, and it’ll just kind of begin to change how you present your book. It won’t ultimately be working in your favor if your pitch is, “I’m so excited about my book, like my family wants me to publish this book.” It has to be, “I’ve studied other books like this, and my book is going to sell more, do more good, because I’m putting this into it.” So I think it’s just getting a mindset from really studying editors and thought leaders in whatever category you’re working in, so that you’re not just talking about your ideas.

ResourcesLearn more about Berrett-Koehler Publishers, here. Click here for Proposal Guidelines for Berrett-Koehler Publishers. Check out Bard Press’s blog, here. Connect with Berret Koehler on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. Connect with Neal Maillet on LinkedIn. 

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The post The Role of an Editor In Your Author Journey appeared first on Weaving Influence.