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Episode 57: Cathy Fyock’s Author Journey

Photo by vimvertigo / 123rf.com

Click here to listen on your device and subscribe! 

Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. In this episode, we are joined by Cathy Fyock—Author, Book Strategist, and Certified Speaking Professional (CSP).

Today’s episode is continuing the author journey series. The series is based on Becky’s book, which is scheduled for release from Berrett Koehler publishers in April 2022. The book is called Reach: Creating Lasting Impact for your Book, Message, or Cause. One of the things that you’re going to hear from Cathy in our upcoming conversation is this idea that books are magic. So I’ll be curious once you listen to it, if you agree that books are magical.

About Cathy Fyock

Becky: Kathy, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me today. I’m really interested in diving in and talking to you about the major pivot that you made in your career. So after years in HR, and recruiting roles, and as a speaker to HR audiences, you made a pivot to a business as a book strategist. Cathy, I would love for you to tell me about the journey to build your brand in a new area.

Cathy: Well, one of the best ways to rebuild a brand and to create this new persona as a book coach, is to write a book. It’s interesting, I was giving a presentation for the National Speakers Association and I was asked to codify my process and I thought, this is so interesting. I don’t know exactly what my process is, but I’m going to learn what it is by having to sit down and codify it. So when I gave the program, several of my friends came up to me and said, Cathy, have you ever thought about becoming a book coach? I thought, no, but I liked this idea. So that was really the launch. But then I was thinking, okay, so what am I going to do? The only credential I really had was being a small business owner and entrepreneur, and having been an author, and growing my business through authorship. But I thought, okay, if I’m going to do this, I need to write a book about how to write a book and that is my new credential, and the really cool thing is it absolutely worked.

Becky: A follow up then. So why do you think it worked so well?

Cathy: I think because I tell my clients, books are magical, books have a power unlike a blog and unlike articles, and unlike any other product or service or offering. Books are magical, and they have a power, maybe because they are hard to write. It does take an enormous amount of energy and effort and clarity and focus. It takes all of that, but in the clarity and focus, and in that whole process of articulating your expertise, you are really getting so clear about what it is that you do and what the magic is that that is what your book contains: is the secret sauce, the powerful ingredients of your process, whatever that might be. So having a book, as the credential is just…there’s nothing quite like it.

What was the timeline of pivoting to a new business?

Becky: So Cathy, could you talk for a moment about the timeline. So from the point that you decided to begin this new type of business, and what that’s been like for you, because I know it’s been close to 10 years?

Cathy: Yeah, it’s been like 7 plus years now. So it was actually in the spring of 2013 that I gave my presentation to the chapter on how to write a book. Then I got the idea that if I was going to do this business, I needed to write the book. So I wrote the book that fall, and I wrote it in six weeks, true to my formula, and launched the business in January of 2014. Basically, in my first months as a book coach, I did more talking to people about the idea of writing books. I put together my initial package, and then I just started having conversations with people about what it is that I was doing, using the book as the key leverage or the key way to articulate what it is that I’m doing, and how I’m doing it. But really, the business has grown enormously since then. I started the business in January of 2014. I’ve helped now nearly 200 professionals become published authors. I have authored five more books, and it just keeps growing. I keep seeing opportunities to serve my clients in new and different ways and I’ve never been more fulfilled in my work ever.

Becky: Wow, that’s amazing. So the first book, though, that you ever wrote was the one that you wrote in 2013. Is that correct?

Cathy: No, the first book that I wrote about writing. So my books before were on human resources issues. But my first book on writing, it was basically saying, “I have expertise on this new topic. You don’t know me for knowing this topic, except that I have written books in HR.” But writing that book about how to write a book has really launched everything for me.

What’s been most important to you on this journey? 

Becky: That’s really powerful. Thank you for clarifying. So I’m curious what’s been most important to you on this journey, Cathy?

Cathy: I think really listening to what my clients are telling me and what they’re asking me for, and what they are saying about the process. So as I’ve been growing my tribe, I really tried to listen to what my clients have said. So they said, “I really am having trouble with this,” or “I don’t think this is long enough,” or “I think that you need to add this service.” I’ve really tried to flex and be as responsive as I possibly can to what my clients are asking for. 

For example, early on, some of my clients asked me for help in some area that I had no expertise in. And one of my clients said, “Well,if you don’t have the expertise, why don’t you just get a guest on a program and offer webinars about the topics that you don’t know about, but that your authors are interested in learning about and that, frankly, I’m interested in learning about, too.” I thought that was brilliant. So I have lots of friends that are related to publishing, promoting, and writing your book. So those became my guests for my master classes. I don’t call them webinars anymore, I call them master classes. I do them at least monthly and it’s a great strategy for offering value to my clients, for educating myself and building my tribe in my community, and offering incredible value to my clients and information that they want and need.

What have you learned about what it takes to expand awareness of your thought leadership in a new area?

Becky: That seems like a great strategy. So I’m wondering, Cathy, what you’ve learned about what it takes to expand awareness of your thought leadership in this new area?

Cathy: Well, I think continuing to write. So I didn’t just write the first book, I have written several books in the space. So my first book was On Your Mark: From First Word to First Draft in Six Weeks which was the fundamentals/basics of the process. My next book, written a couple years later, was Blog2Book: Repurposing Content to Discover the Book You’ve Already Written, which came to me again, as a result of listening to people. I was attending a conference of the National Speakers Association and within four hours, I had four people come up to me and say, “Cathy, I love what you’re doing. I really think that I need you to work with me. I’ve been blogging for several years and I feel like there’s a book there. Maybe you could help me put it together?” I’m thinking, oh my gosh, that’s a service I should be offering. And then I thought, oh, my gosh, that’s a book I should be writing. Then I wrote it as a blog book, meaning I repurposed a lot of the blog content that I had been writing. So I actually modeled a blog to book. And then my next book was The Speaker Author, because I found that a lot of my authors did not know how to leverage their books into growing their businesses, which is kind of my fundamental reason for helping people write books, is to grow a business. So I wrote The Speaker Author as a way for my clients to better understand the magic, the power of a book, to grow your business, and to use it in a smart and effective way.

What challenges have you encountered?

Becky: Thanks, Cathy. I’m curious about any challenges you’ve encountered on your journey?

Cathy: This has been the most magical journey. It’s, in some ways, been a long journey. It’s been seven plus years, but it has been so much fun. So it’s been hard work, but it’s been easy, if you know what I mean. It has just been a labor of love. I know, I work hard at what I do, but it has been so enjoyable, and so rewarding. So, yeah, I feel like I’m in the zone.

What are you most hoping to achieve?

Becky: That’s amazing. So Cathy, I’m wondering what you’re most hoping to achieve?

Cathy: What I say now to my authors is that, as speakers and authors, I believe that we can and do change the world, one word at a time, and we make a difference. My authors are all trying to make the world a better place in some way in their corner of the world. And that’s what I want folks to do. In stepping into thought leadership, they are really stepping into bringing their whole potential to the world and they’re also helping bring others into their full potential. So it is this wonderful cycle of developing and growing and becoming more.

Becky: So how will you know when you’ve achieved your highest goals for your work in the world?

Cathy: Well, I have no plans to retire, even though I’m technically at retirement age, so I’m just enjoying the process. I plan to have a more condensed workweek, but I’m continuing to work and I have no plans to quit, because I love what I’m doing. So until no one needs me anymore or calls on me, then I will be offering my services to aspiring authors.

How has generosity played a role in your journey?

Becky: So I’m curious, Cathy, what role has generosity played on your journey?

Cathy: You know, people have been so generous with me. One of the things I love about the National Speakers Association is that it is an organization of caring and sharing, and I love being a part of that. And that really suits me and fits me. I find that the more generous I am in helping others, I believe that there are times to provide a break for folks or give them a leg up or help them in ways that are sort of beyond the call of duty, and I love doing that. So being generous is definitely a philosophy that I have, that the more generous I am, the more generous the world is to me. It’s not me doing one to make the other happen but it’s just it seems to me you can’t be generous and not have it come back to benefit you in some way.

Do you think you’re famous?

Becky: Thank you. I’m curious, Cathy, do you think you’re famous?

Cathy: I don’t think I’m really famous, like a celebrity famous, but in my own little corner of the world, you think there is maybe some fame there. I’ve certainly helped a lot of people and a lot of people give me credit for being the encourager that has helped them go on to achieve things that are on their bucket list, like writing a book. So that has been fun. And maybe in that way, I’m a little bit famous.

Is there anything about building thought leadership or building influence online that you wish I’d asked you?

Becky: A little bit famous, I like that. So Cathy, is there anything about building thought leadership online or building influence online that you wish I’d asked you so that you could share it with our audience?

Cathy: I think continuing to really pay attention to what your clients are asking you for, what they need and writing on those things, writing books, or writing blogs, or writing content around those things. So paying attention to what your people are saying, what your tribe is saying. Really listening, asking good questions, and I think that’s part of what it means to be a thought leader.

What is a tribe and what does your tribe mean to you?

Becky: So I want to pick up on one more thing. A few times on this call, Cathy, you’ve mentioned your tribe. So how do you know who your tribe is and what does your tribe mean to you?

Cathy: I’m a big fan of Seth Godin’s book, Tribes, and I read that early on in my book coaching career. So it really struck me because as I was reading it I was thinking, “Oh, yeah, this is what authors need to do.” We’re all building our tribe, we’re all building a community of folks who are interconnected and support one another, and are here for one another. So it’s not just clients, that doesn’t do it justice. My tribe, they may be business partners, like you, Becky, other publishing partners, I’m not a publisher, I’m not an editor. So it’s thinking about all the folks who come together to help one another in making the world a better place, one word at a time. So it’s the totality of that, it’s this big community that is absolutely connected to one another in amazing sorts of ways. I love that about the work that I do.

How do you set expectations with the authors you’re coaching?

Becky: Thank you. I have one last question. I’m curious about how you help authors set expectations for what a book can do in their work and in their businesses, because I heard you say earlier in our conversation, books are magical?

Cathy: They are, but as I say they’re magical. It’s sort of like books are like having a magic wand. They don’t do magic on their own, you have to wield the magic wand. You have to know how to use the magic wand. And I think that’s true with a book. Just writing the book and putting it out there in the world is not going to create magic. Now, there may be some that just happens, but it’s unlikely. But it’s how you use the tool. It’s how you give it away, how you offer it to others, how you gift it sometimes to others, how you repurpose the content, how you get it out there in the world. So you’re making the most of that opportunity. You’re looking for opportunities to do interviews, you’re looking for opportunities to do presentations, to do podcasts, to do all types of different events that will get your thought leadership out in the world. That’s where I think some of this magic starts to happen.

Action Steps

Becky: Today’s action steps are specifically for those of you who aspire to write books, but haven’t written them yet. If you are someone who’s always dreamed of being an author, but you haven’t yet written a book, I would encourage you to think about my conversation with Cathy, and her idea that books are magic. 

I’d encourage you to either journal about or talk to a friend about what the magic is that you hope a book that you might write, would have in the world and for your business. I encourage you to let that sink in and motivate you toward your next steps on your author journey. The second action step for those of you who aspire to write books is to identify a partner for this early part of outlining what type of book you might want to write and how you might bring it to the world. Cathy Fyock is a great person to contact. You can find her at her website, or I’d always be happy to talk with you about your writing dreams. If not Cathy or me, you may have a friend who could be a great asset to you on your journey. I would encourage you, as an action step of listening to today’s podcast, to contact someone, Cathy or a friend in your life, who can be an encouragement to you to move closer to your goal of publishing a book.ResourcesLearn more about Cathy Fyock and the work she does in the world.Connect with Cathy on Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube. 

If you found value in today’s episode, we hope you’ll take a moment to share it with someone else who might benefit from it. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to cover, please email Becky Robinson here.

Click here for our free resources. 

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review. 

Click here to tweet about this episode!

The post Episode 57: Cathy Fyock’s Author Journey appeared first on Weaving Influence.

Cathy Fyock’s Author Journey

Photo by vimvertigo / 123rf.com

Click here to listen on your device and subscribe! 

Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. In this episode, we are joined by Cathy Fyock—Author, Book Strategist, and Certified Speaking Professional (CSP).

Today’s episode is continuing the author journey series. The series is based on Becky’s book, which is scheduled for release from Berrett Koehler publishers in April 2022. The book is called Reach: Creating Lasting Impact for your Book, Message, or Cause. One of the things that you’re going to hear from Cathy in our upcoming conversation is this idea that books are magic. So I’ll be curious once you listen to it, if you agree that books are magical.

About Cathy Fyock

Becky: Kathy, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me today. I’m really interested in diving in and talking to you about the major pivot that you made in your career. So after years in HR, and recruiting roles, and as a speaker to HR audiences, you made a pivot to a business as a book strategist. Cathy, I would love for you to tell me about the journey to build your brand in a new area.

Cathy: Well, one of the best ways to rebuild a brand and to create this new persona as a book coach, is to write a book. It’s interesting, I was giving a presentation for the National Speakers Association and I was asked to codify my process and I thought, this is so interesting. I don’t know exactly what my process is, but I’m going to learn what it is by having to sit down and codify it. So when I gave the program, several of my friends came up to me and said, Cathy, have you ever thought about becoming a book coach? I thought, no, but I liked this idea. So that was really the launch. But then I was thinking, okay, so what am I going to do? The only credential I really had was being a small business owner and entrepreneur, and having been an author, and growing my business through authorship. But I thought, okay, if I’m going to do this, I need to write a book about how to write a book and that is my new credential, and the really cool thing is it absolutely worked.

Becky: A follow up then. So why do you think it worked so well?

Cathy: I think because I tell my clients, books are magical, books have a power unlike a blog and unlike articles, and unlike any other product or service or offering. Books are magical, and they have a power, maybe because they are hard to write. It does take an enormous amount of energy and effort and clarity and focus. It takes all of that, but in the clarity and focus, and in that whole process of articulating your expertise, you are really getting so clear about what it is that you do and what the magic is that that is what your book contains: is the secret sauce, the powerful ingredients of your process, whatever that might be. So having a book, as the credential is just…there’s nothing quite like it.

What was the timeline of pivoting to a new business?

Becky: So Cathy, could you talk for a moment about the timeline. So from the point that you decided to begin this new type of business, and what that’s been like for you, because I know it’s been close to 10 years?

Cathy: Yeah, it’s been like 7 plus years now. So it was actually in the spring of 2013 that I gave my presentation to the chapter on how to write a book. Then I got the idea that if I was going to do this business, I needed to write the book. So I wrote the book that fall, and I wrote it in six weeks, true to my formula, and launched the business in January of 2014. Basically, in my first months as a book coach, I did more talking to people about the idea of writing books. I put together my initial package, and then I just started having conversations with people about what it is that I was doing, using the book as the key leverage or the key way to articulate what it is that I’m doing, and how I’m doing it. But really, the business has grown enormously since then. I started the business in January of 2014. I’ve helped now nearly 200 professionals become published authors. I have authored five more books, and it just keeps growing. I keep seeing opportunities to serve my clients in new and different ways and I’ve never been more fulfilled in my work ever.

Becky: Wow, that’s amazing. So the first book, though, that you ever wrote was the one that you wrote in 2013. Is that correct?

Cathy: No, the first book that I wrote about writing. So my books before were on human resources issues. But my first book on writing, it was basically saying, “I have expertise on this new topic. You don’t know me for knowing this topic, except that I have written books in HR.” But writing that book about how to write a book has really launched everything for me.

What’s been most important to you on this journey? 

Becky: That’s really powerful. Thank you for clarifying. So I’m curious what’s been most important to you on this journey, Cathy?

Cathy: I think really listening to what my clients are telling me and what they’re asking me for, and what they are saying about the process. So as I’ve been growing my tribe, I really tried to listen to what my clients have said. So they said, “I really am having trouble with this,” or “I don’t think this is long enough,” or “I think that you need to add this service.” I’ve really tried to flex and be as responsive as I possibly can to what my clients are asking for. 

For example, early on, some of my clients asked me for help in some area that I had no expertise in. And one of my clients said, “Well,if you don’t have the expertise, why don’t you just get a guest on a program and offer webinars about the topics that you don’t know about, but that your authors are interested in learning about and that, frankly, I’m interested in learning about, too.” I thought that was brilliant. So I have lots of friends that are related to publishing, promoting, and writing your book. So those became my guests for my master classes. I don’t call them webinars anymore, I call them master classes. I do them at least monthly and it’s a great strategy for offering value to my clients, for educating myself and building my tribe in my community, and offering incredible value to my clients and information that they want and need.

What have you learned about what it takes to expand awareness of your thought leadership in a new area?

Becky: That seems like a great strategy. So I’m wondering, Cathy, what you’ve learned about what it takes to expand awareness of your thought leadership in this new area?

Cathy: Well, I think continuing to write. So I didn’t just write the first book, I have written several books in the space. So my first book was On Your Mark: From First Word to First Draft in Six Weeks which was the fundamentals/basics of the process. My next book, written a couple years later, was Blog2Book: Repurposing Content to Discover the Book You’ve Already Written, which came to me again, as a result of listening to people. I was attending a conference of the National Speakers Association and within four hours, I had four people come up to me and say, “Cathy, I love what you’re doing. I really think that I need you to work with me. I’ve been blogging for several years and I feel like there’s a book there. Maybe you could help me put it together?” I’m thinking, oh my gosh, that’s a service I should be offering. And then I thought, oh, my gosh, that’s a book I should be writing. Then I wrote it as a blog book, meaning I repurposed a lot of the blog content that I had been writing. So I actually modeled a blog to book. And then my next book was The Speaker Author, because I found that a lot of my authors did not know how to leverage their books into growing their businesses, which is kind of my fundamental reason for helping people write books, is to grow a business. So I wrote The Speaker Author as a way for my clients to better understand the magic, the power of a book, to grow your business, and to use it in a smart and effective way.

What challenges have you encountered?

Becky: Thanks, Cathy. I’m curious about any challenges you’ve encountered on your journey?

Cathy: This has been the most magical journey. It’s, in some ways, been a long journey. It’s been seven plus years, but it has been so much fun. So it’s been hard work, but it’s been easy, if you know what I mean. It has just been a labor of love. I know, I work hard at what I do, but it has been so enjoyable, and so rewarding. So, yeah, I feel like I’m in the zone.

What are you most hoping to achieve?

Becky: That’s amazing. So Cathy, I’m wondering what you’re most hoping to achieve?

Cathy: What I say now to my authors is that, as speakers and authors, I believe that we can and do change the world, one word at a time, and we make a difference. My authors are all trying to make the world a better place in some way in their corner of the world. And that’s what I want folks to do. In stepping into thought leadership, they are really stepping into bringing their whole potential to the world and they’re also helping bring others into their full potential. So it is this wonderful cycle of developing and growing and becoming more.

Becky: So how will you know when you’ve achieved your highest goals for your work in the world?

Cathy: Well, I have no plans to retire, even though I’m technically at retirement age, so I’m just enjoying the process. I plan to have a more condensed workweek, but I’m continuing to work and I have no plans to quit, because I love what I’m doing. So until no one needs me anymore or calls on me, then I will be offering my services to aspiring authors.

How has generosity played a role in your journey?

Becky: So I’m curious, Cathy, what role has generosity played on your journey?

Cathy: You know, people have been so generous with me. One of the things I love about the National Speakers Association is that it is an organization of caring and sharing, and I love being a part of that. And that really suits me and fits me. I find that the more generous I am in helping others, I believe that there are times to provide a break for folks or give them a leg up or help them in ways that are sort of beyond the call of duty, and I love doing that. So being generous is definitely a philosophy that I have, that the more generous I am, the more generous the world is to me. It’s not me doing one to make the other happen but it’s just it seems to me you can’t be generous and not have it come back to benefit you in some way.

Do you think you’re famous?

Becky: Thank you. I’m curious, Cathy, do you think you’re famous?

Cathy: I don’t think I’m really famous, like a celebrity famous, but in my own little corner of the world, you think there is maybe some fame there. I’ve certainly helped a lot of people and a lot of people give me credit for being the encourager that has helped them go on to achieve things that are on their bucket list, like writing a book. So that has been fun. And maybe in that way, I’m a little bit famous.

Is there anything about building thought leadership or building influence online that you wish I’d asked you?

Becky: A little bit famous, I like that. So Cathy, is there anything about building thought leadership online or building influence online that you wish I’d asked you so that you could share it with our audience?

Cathy: I think continuing to really pay attention to what your clients are asking you for, what they need and writing on those things, writing books, or writing blogs, or writing content around those things. So paying attention to what your people are saying, what your tribe is saying. Really listening, asking good questions, and I think that’s part of what it means to be a thought leader.

What is a tribe and what does your tribe mean to you?

Becky: So I want to pick up on one more thing. A few times on this call, Cathy, you’ve mentioned your tribe. So how do you know who your tribe is and what does your tribe mean to you?

Cathy: I’m a big fan of Seth Godin’s book, Tribes, and I read that early on in my book coaching career. So it really struck me because as I was reading it I was thinking, “Oh, yeah, this is what authors need to do.” We’re all building our tribe, we’re all building a community of folks who are interconnected and support one another, and are here for one another. So it’s not just clients, that doesn’t do it justice. My tribe, they may be business partners, like you, Becky, other publishing partners, I’m not a publisher, I’m not an editor. So it’s thinking about all the folks who come together to help one another in making the world a better place, one word at a time. So it’s the totality of that, it’s this big community that is absolutely connected to one another in amazing sorts of ways. I love that about the work that I do.

How do you set expectations with the authors you’re coaching?

Becky: Thank you. I have one last question. I’m curious about how you help authors set expectations for what a book can do in their work and in their businesses, because I heard you say earlier in our conversation, books are magical?

Cathy: They are, but as I say they’re magical. It’s sort of like books are like having a magic wand. They don’t do magic on their own, you have to wield the magic wand. You have to know how to use the magic wand. And I think that’s true with a book. Just writing the book and putting it out there in the world is not going to create magic. Now, there may be some that just happens, but it’s unlikely. But it’s how you use the tool. It’s how you give it away, how you offer it to others, how you gift it sometimes to others, how you repurpose the content, how you get it out there in the world. So you’re making the most of that opportunity. You’re looking for opportunities to do interviews, you’re looking for opportunities to do presentations, to do podcasts, to do all types of different events that will get your thought leadership out in the world. That’s where I think some of this magic starts to happen.

Action Steps

Becky: Today’s action steps are specifically for those of you who aspire to write books, but haven’t written them yet. If you are someone who’s always dreamed of being an author, but you haven’t yet written a book, I would encourage you to think about my conversation with Cathy, and her idea that books are magic. 

I’d encourage you to either journal about or talk to a friend about what the magic is that you hope a book that you might write, would have in the world and for your business. I encourage you to let that sink in and motivate you toward your next steps on your author journey. The second action step for those of you who aspire to write books is to identify a partner for this early part of outlining what type of book you might want to write and how you might bring it to the world. Cathy Fyock is a great person to contact. You can find her at her website, or I’d always be happy to talk with you about your writing dreams. If not Cathy or me, you may have a friend who could be a great asset to you on your journey. I would encourage you, as an action step of listening to today’s podcast, to contact someone, Cathy or a friend in your life, who can be an encouragement to you to move closer to your goal of publishing a book.ResourcesLearn more about Cathy Fyock and the work she does in the world.Connect with Cathy on Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube. 

If you found value in today’s episode, we hope you’ll take a moment to share it with someone else who might benefit from it. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to cover, please email Becky Robinson here.

Click here for our free resources. 

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review. 

Click here to tweet about this episode!

The post Cathy Fyock’s Author Journey appeared first on Weaving Influence.

One Author’s Approach to Her Book Website

We often talk about the importance of having a web presence, or an online home (your website) where people can find you, gather more information, and sign up to stay in touch with you. As an author, this is critically important. Sure, people can find you on social media (which is one piece of the puzzle), but your entire audience may not be on those platforms, and you don’t own or control those platforms. What happens if something goes awry and you can no longer access your content, or stay in touch with your networks? This is why we recommend having an online home. 

Now, there are two main schools of thought when it comes to author websites: you can house all of your content, books, and information under one domain. Or, you can have different domains for your different books (if you’ve authored more than one) or for the work you do in the world.

We talked with April Rinne, author of FLUX: 8 Superpowers for Thriving in Constant Change, about her web approach. 

What was most important for you in building a web presence for your forthcoming book?

I wanted my book to convey the message of Flux clearly and elegantly. I hoped to excite and inspire people to think about their relationship to change, to provide useful content (for potential readers, media, etc. – even if they don’t read the book), and to connect the concept of Flux back to me.

What do you hope to accomplish by having a separate web presence for your book?

This was a decision that I and my amazing designer, Elan Morgan, took seriously. At the beginning I was not sure if I would have one site (i.e. book featured somewhere on my April Rinne website, or a new stand-alone Flux website. But the more we discussed options, the clearer it became that having a stand-alone website for Flux was the better option. Among the factors that influenced this decision are:

There is already a lot of information on my April Rinne website. Adding Flux could both make it cluttered / overwhelming, and dilute the power of Flux. With a stand-alone site, I was far less restricted in terms of how much could be shared.My personal and book websites have different branding, but they are complementary. They link with each other. Think 1+1=11!Flux is my book, but it is about far more than me. A separate site allows me to go far beyond what I might put on my personal website… opening new doors, which I love.My personal website has received extremely good feedback over the years. I didn’t want to mess with a good thing. Again, part of why it works well is because it’s clearly presented and not overwhelming. There was concern that a book—and all the information I wanted to include alongside it—could make it cluttered and lose some of that value.How do you envision your two websites contributing to your overall work?

My personal website allows people to get to know me, even beyond Flux. It’s my full personal story (i.e. less emphasis on my professional bio), my advisory work, things I’ve written (not about Flux, per se), etc…. even my handstands around the world! Not all of that makes sense for a book website. My Flux website, in contrast, is exclusively about my book, the Flux message and concept, Flux Mindset and Flux Superpowers, etc. With time it will also include more Flux press, etc. as well. Flux links back to who I am—and how and why I wrote the book—yet it also goes beyond it. Both clearly contribute to my work, by focusing on different aspects of it. Again, I hope it creates a kind of 1+1=11 momentum!

What, if any, advice do you have for other authors about how to view their web presence for their book(s)?

It depends on what kind of book you’re writing, of course, but I always try to show up fully for my websites. What conveys the essence of me and the ideas I’m trying to get into the world? It’s important to have clear, clean site navigation and such, but beyond that…what makes you, you? Put that on your site. I’ve often been told that my sites show my personality and authenticity. I love that. Cookie-cutter websites aren’t interesting. Sites that are merely advertisements aren’t interesting. Make your website an extension of you—be more creative than you might otherwise be—shine and share that with the world!

No matter which option you choose (one website or multiple) you ultimately have to do what is best for you, your brand, and your book or business. However, I’d like to leave you with one piece of advice: make it easy for people to find out more about you, stay in touch, and connect with you (like April has done). 

If you’re an author or aspiring author and would like to strategically weigh your options as it relates to your web presence, we’d love to hear from you. Email Becky Robinson at becky@weavinginfluence.com. 

More about April Rinne

A World Economic Forum Young Global Leader and ranked one of the “50 Leading Female Futurists” in the world by Forbes, April Rinne is a change navigator: she helps individuals and organizations rethink and reshape their relationship with change, uncertainty, and a world in flux. She’s a trusted advisor, speaker, investor, adventurer (100+ countries), insatiable handstander, and author of Flux: 8 Superpowers for Thriving in Constant Change (on-sale August 24, 2021). Learn more about her (two!) websites at fluxmindset.com and aprilrinne.com.

The post One Author’s Approach to Her Book Website appeared first on Weaving Influence.

Episode 56: The Role of an Editor In Your Author Journey

Photo by Antonio Diaz / 123rf.com

Click here to listen on your device and subscribe! 

Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. In this episode, we are joined by Neal Maillet—Editorial Director at Berrett-Koehler Publishers, Inc.

About Neal Maillet

Becky: I’m so excited that today I have with me, Neal Maillet from Berrett-Koehler publishers, he happens to be my editor. I’m going to let Neal tell you a little bit about his work as an editor over the years. And then we’re going to talk some about my author journey, like I said, in hopes that you’ll get a glimpse into what it’s like to partner with a traditional publisher and today specifically, the role that an editor plays on that journey. Welcome, Neal!

Neal: Thanks for having me. Wonderful to be working with you and talk about books, which is my favorite topic. I think yours too. I pretty much have had only one job in my life after college, which is working in book publishing. I’m not sure that I know about anything else, frankly. But luckily, I’ve been able to fight off imposter syndrome for 30 some odd years and work on books. I’ve always worked in nonfiction. I’ve always worked in editorial. I kind of stumbled my way into working on business books or books about career, business. It wasn’t my first choice honestly, I wanted to work on novels. I wanted to go have, like, Martini lunches at the Algonquin hotel and discuss great matters of intellectual weight. And then I ended up doing books on building mail order businesses and consulting. That was my first editing job at Wiley and I realized I loved that. I loved how clear it was whether a book was helping people or not, when you were working on books that were about things like that. 

So that’s pretty much been where I’ve been. My life as an editor, I’ve moved on to Jossey Bass Inc. in San Francisco, working there for many years. And a lot of the people I worked with at Jossey-Bass Inc. have made their way to Berrett-Koehler. So that’s kind of how I made my way to Berrett-Koehler, which is another nonfiction-only press, not just doing business titles, we also do books kind of in progressive current events. Also some personal growth books. So they kind of run the gamut of self-improvement. Our mission is creating a world that works for all. So all of our books have to have some positive change that happens when you read the book. And I also find that, again, kind of reassuring and fun to know that any book we work on has a clear kind of benefit at the end of it. You come out the other end of the book, possibly as a writer and as the author, and you have specific changes that you’re gonna make, and so that’s sort of what I do. I help authors just get clear on that and I love my job.

How many books do you work on in any given year?

Becky: Very cool. So I’m curious how many books do you work on in any given year, Neal?

Neal: Yeah, I took over the editorial department last year, and so my number went down. But it’s been pretty consistent over my career where I’ve been working on about 16 to 20 books a year. Of course, that means I’m signing up to 16 to 20 and then I’m also editing the books that I signed up the previous year. So really, it’s more at any given time,  juggling probably close to 30 titles or topics, which I think is good for authors to know. It means that sometimes I may seem like I’m not super focused on your book. I worry sometimes that authors feel like I’m not invested in their book if I’m like really, really deep into somebody else’s author crisis. So the way that it tends to work is we segment our time pretty carefully. So once I’m working on somebody’s manuscript, I’m 100% focused on that. So it’s kind of episodic that way. But that’s a way to kind of keep so many books kind of going through the system and keeping the company’s doors open.

How do you balance the author books you’re currently working on and the proposals in your email?

Becky: How do you balance the need to give attention to the authors whose books you’re currently working to bring to publication, and then the many proposals that probably land in your email?

Neal: Yeah, this is something I’ve mentioned to some other author groups and talks. I think often, sometimes people get a little bit surprised by this. But for me, even though the most important job that I have is selecting the books that will publish in terms of time, the time that gets kind of pushed down to the bottom is considering new proposal ideas, because I’m usually having to make sure that once the book gets signed up, it’s on a train schedule. We can’t miss the schedule, or some bad things happen later. So that’s always going to trump other things. So what ends up happening sometimes, is the proposals kind of pile up a little bit, and then I have to slam through them, reading them. I might read 20 proposals in an hour, or something like that, really kind of going through, so that probably horrifies authors who are working so hard on their proposals. The thing that I would tell authors who might be listening to this, and wanting to get an editor’s attention, it just kind of proves how much of a premium there is on your introduction, your cover letter. You kind of have to win me over in the first few paragraphs of your proposal, and that’s probably it. So what ends up happening is I scan them, and then once that kind of jump out is possibly promising, they get kind of set aside and then I might spend some more time on them. So that’s just kind of the hard facts about this business.

What is the reality of the amount of traffic there is for traditional publishing? 

Becky: Well, I find it fascinating. I know prior to having my own proposal accepted by Berrett-Koehler publishers, I was definitely aware that you get hundreds, if not thousands of proposals every year. So can you talk a little bit about that, for those who might be listening, to give them a reality check on the amount of traffic there is for traditional publishing? 

Neal: So I’ve counted up mine, I get anywhere from 400 to 500 proposals that come directly to me. Keep in mind that we have an email address that’s generally available submissions@bkpub.com and bkconnection.com. That is kind of vetted by our assistant editor who’s responsible for doing kind of the same thing I’ve just been describing to you. But she’s doing it more on the associate level, screening things and then maybe passing them on to me. She’s getting several a day, and she might give me like one every week or two, to look over, like, “Hey, this might be interesting to you.” So I’m seeing some of those, and then some that come directly to me. So I’m getting at least one proposal a day, probably more like two or three. And then I’m usually going to try to carve out time on Friday. 

What ends up happening is I get through the week, I’m putting out fires, things are happening, and then, like, I haven’t looked at any proposals this week. And it is true that there’s a time factor with proposals, too. I don’t want to find out that I had the proposal for the next Good to Great, or The 4-Hour Workweek and if I had only gotten back to that author or agent earlier, that might have been my book. So I’m not happy about maybe having to put off reading them. But it’s kind of a risk I guess I run. So on Friday, I’ll usually end up doing it on Fridays when things tend to quiet down, and then I just kind of power through the proposals that week, and it is a little bit a triage thing sometimes. I mean the truth is, again, I’m giving you some of the dirty underbelly of our business. I will kind of read the first paragraph and if you get me in that first paragraph or two of the proposal, I immediately jump to the author’s bio. I want to see, who is this person? Are people listening to them? Is this person a thought leader? If you have a great book idea, and this is obviously why you’re in business, Becky, and nobody knows you’re there or alive, that great book idea is gonna probably not go too far. So I do have to see that people are already following you. It’s a long haul, as you try to tell your authors. 

And then the third place I go to is the marketing plan. Do you know how to sell yourself? Do you have stuff online? So then I go back and then I really start to dig into the kind of editorial ideas, because I don’t want to have to use my brain cells to really figure out if your book idea is good until I know that you have the engine to sell it. So that’s kind of my thought process reading through proposals. I think authors would be horrified. But, one thing when I was an editorial assistant, I started at Bantam Books and I was there when they were publishing authors, like Tom Wolfe and Nathaniel Branden. I think like some other big names, Louise Erdrich, she was one of the authors that my editor worked with. The proposals all came in with 8 by 10 glossies of the authors, which horrified me. I thought, “this is disgraceful.” But they were in the entertainment business, we’re talking about one of the big New York corporate publishers, and they did take into account how good of a glossy picture the author’s gonna have. I still don’t exactly agree with that, and that does not happen with me, but it just shows you that publishers look at your book as it’s a business proposal. It’s a business investment. Publishers are going to think about how much risk there is of me getting my money back if I spend $30,000 to $50,000, which is about the average investment. So anyways, I don’t know why I brought that weird thing up.

Becky: Oh, that’s funny. I love that insider view. I think you’ve probably seen and done a lot of things that our listeners would find interesting. So we might have to circle back on some of those publishing stories. 

Once you have a good idea, can you sell the book?

Becky: So we’ve talked a little bit about your process in vetting proposals, but I want to make sure that I emphasize what you said, which is that editors are looking at each proposal as a business decision and a business investment and, maybe more important, once you have a good idea, is can you sell the book?

Neal: I think, as the editor, maybe I’m presuming too much, but I think I have a certain amount of persuasion and sway inside the company that this is a good book idea, this is an author worth listening to. So I usually get those points for that, as a given. The part that I really need to start selling to my colleagues, because I don’t just make the decision, “Oh, we’re going to publish it.” I decided, like, “Hey, this is a good decision, this is a good investment. I like this author. I think this is a good title.” Now I have to convince sales and marketing, that they’re going to be able to sell it. 

So a lot of my energy internally in the company is more focused on that side of it. And again, I don’t think authors are completely aware that most of the discussion inside the company is going to be about that sales and marketing piece and publicity. Most of your conversations with your editor, one hopes, is about the content, the quality, the ideas, you’re going to get all that. But that’s kind of like a one-on-one thing with your editor. Most of the work that is for the publisher is around, “How do we sell this thing?” and “Is the author going to be the chief marketing and sales officer?” Because if the author is just going to sit around and wait for the publisher to figure it out, it’s not going to work.

Becky: That’s really powerful. 

How did you evaluate my book proposal?

Becky: So for a minute, let’s talk a little bit about how I got here to having a book contract with Berrett-Koehler publishers. I remember Neal, when you called me to offer me the contract, I was wishing that we had recorded it because I thought it would have been a really helpful conversation for others to hear.

So I’m not asking for you to like sing my praises or anything right now, but I do think it would be interesting for you to share for a minute about how you evaluated my proposal. And just before we go there, for everyone who’s listening, if you haven’t read some of the blog posts that I’ve been writing about my author journey, I brought several ideas to Neal over the years before I got him to say yes to one. And when I did finally craft an entire proposal, it was the first time, but it was only because Neal said no. And then in July, I think it was, we had a call and I shared my latest idea with you. And you said, “yes, I’d look at a proposal for that.” It only took me about six months probably to get it in your inbox. So let’s pick up the story there.

Neal: I think what’s fun about this book and you is that it’s kind of a weird synchronicity of your message to your clients and to people who hire you. You’ve eaten your own cooking because you’ve gone through that same process personally, and you’re writing a book and you’ve been rejected and told no early on. It really was kind of that same, you had really good book ideas probably, when I first met you, when we first started discussing books, but you didn’t have the brand yet that made me feel confident. Like, “Oh, this is going to be a great investment.” And then interestingly by the time you circled around with this last book idea, and I’ve kind of known you the past few years, it suddenly just hit me like, she’s a brand. She’s not the same Becky Robinson I spoke to in 2012 where you had a certain email list, and you were building your business. It hit me kind of as like a thunderclap like, oh, this is a completely different kind of book discussion now. So you had the great book idea, which is kind of why the conversation got started in the first place, but then it kind of hit me all of a sudden, that you have the marketing engine now that is kind of at the top of your class. 

It’s funny, when I sent you the email when I got a yes from my colleagues, you got through the meeting, I had a picture of that scene in Bull Durham, when the phone call comes through, I can’t remember if Tim Robbins is the actor who plays that, luckily, you’re a much better book figure than he was as a pitcher. But it’s like, you’re going to the show, and that was exactly what it seemed like to me. You’re definitely in the major league kind of echelon now, as somebody who’s really earned your stripes and kind of did the hard work of building your platform and your brand. But without a great book idea, it’s a really weird balance. If you had had all of that, and your book idea is like, it’s okay, that wouldn’t work. If you have an amazing book idea, which I’m sure some of your book ideas were probably great when I first started talking to you, but there’s this kind of balance between the two. That’s why you’re writing a book right now and not probably spending as much time with your kids as you should.

Becky: Haha! Well, for those who might be listening, like what I really feel and I want to emphasize what you said, it’s not only about having a platform, you also have to have a great idea. And it’s not only about having a great idea, you also have to have a platform. Thanks, thanks so much. It’s so fun to share this journey with you and with the rest of the team at BK. 

What is your role as an editor? Where do you give your attention along the journey?

Becky: So Neal, this has been such a fun conversation to reflect on all the different things that came together for me to be doing a book now. What I want to do now is give our listeners a glimpse about the role of an editor once you get to this point. So you mentioned 500 proposals that you see every year, 16 to 20, you offer a contract to based on feedback from the rest of the publication board. So then you’re really journeying with those 16 to 20 authors a year from the initial idea and concept in the proposal to the publication of the book, which in my case from signing, the contract is going to be about 14 months. So talk about the role that you have as an editor and what the different places are, because you explain that you kind of have different moments that you step in. You’re not necessarily giving an author all of your attention all the time. So what are the key places along the journey?

Neal: Yeah, that’s a good question. Because I think it’s actually changed in the industry since I started editing. As an editor, I hate to say, my first publishing job was in 1987. So that kind of tells you how long I’ve been around. And at that time, actually, the pressure on the platform, it was there, but it wasn’t as heavy. More unknowns could kind of break out, because there was just a massive number of bookstores and the book industry was much bigger than it is now, frankly. So I spent a lot of my time my first years, doing what we call line editing. Going through, line by line, and really reworking the content and sending drafts back to the author. 

Now, I’m caught, partly as a part of the workflow, but also part of the way that I think the book industry has changed, my time is more episodic. Meaning that, once I get a book signed up, as has happened in your case, a lot of effort goes into the concept at the start, and that’s one reason why we pick the title so early. It used to be really like, why would you pick a title until the book is done? How can you title something until you know what this thing is? Because it’s gonna come out a little differently than you expected. So that’s how, I’m looking back and kind of amazed to remember that it was like that. Now, we pretty much set the title, possibly before the author’s even started writing, and part of that is to help get the author clear on the concept that the book is selling. Like, what’s the message? Because the writing is going to go a lot better if that’s super clear up front, and then the author’s just doing variations on the theme, rather than going off into the wilderness and trying to figure out the plum of your soul and how do I put that on paper? So, there’s a lot of intense focus, when you get started. 

Then I go away, unless you have a podcast, which was very clever of you to get me back and get some attention. But I go away, because I’m now doing that work with other authors, and then the author is kind of trying to fulfill that vision. We have reviewers at Berrett-Koehler who do most of that line work and kind of line-by-line commentary. We still provide that, but my work has to be more on the bigger picture of, “is that vision happening? Did the author really fulfill the plan?” And so, again, I’m looking more at the conceptual purity, if you will. 

So when the manuscript comes in, I give another bunch of really concentrated time, where I’m thinking more of what I would call developmental editing versus line editing. I think people think of movies and stuff, where the editors got a big manuscript, and I’m project manager on like maybe 40 things at a given time. So I don’t have that. Maybe there was time in the business, at one time, for me to spend three days line editing a manuscript. I now have to kind of portion my time a little more to give that work more to the reviewers, and sometimes to other developmental editors, but I’m going through the reviews, and also figuring out what developmentally and subject wise is happening in the book. Then giving the author maybe some feedback on, “you’re writing a chapter on book marketing, but you forgot to mention the internet” or something. So that’s kind of where I’m coming from.

Then the author goes away for another month, and works on that. And then hopefully, the final manuscript comes in and is perfect. And, in our process at Berrett-Koehler, I think the way we do that, we very, very rarely get to the finish line, and the book isn’t really what we were hoping for, and ready to go into production. In other publishers, there’s often a train that derails at that point, like something just went wrong along the way. The author didn’t really get the support and feedback, and the whole book gets delayed. Sorry, it’s gonna have to come out six months later. So I think our process is pretty good. It’s not like constant attention, but it’s also a little more strategic. I don’t know if  any of that made sense. It made sense to me.

What role does the publisher have in proofreading? 

Becky: No, it definitely made sense. I think the one thing that’s not clear to me is what happens as it relates to the fine tune proofreading. Is that the responsibility of the author? What role does the publisher have? 

Neal: So there’s a certain amount of just general fact checking and feedback that’s happening in the process of the first draft and the early drafts. I will go in and do some spot checks. Like my favorite pet peeve is every inspirational quote you’re gonna find on the internet from Gandhi or Mother Teresa is false. He never said those things and people put them in books because it sounds great. So one of my first things is just to kind of spot check some of the factual stuff and if it looks like the author’s being really careful then I relax my guard on that. So there’s a little bit of that point work that I do. 

But what’s really called copy editing, where the person is going to go word by word through that book, happens after I’m out of the picture. So my job is to make sure the book makes sense, and it’s marketable and going to be something somebody wants to read. But it’s the copy editor, who’s probably going to spend upwards of 40-50 hours possibly going line by line and making sure everything is spelled properly, proper grammar, proper style and usage. Asking questions, saying “This doesn’t make sense.” So that happens after, when it’s in production, essentially. It’s very detailed, but it’s also a different part of the brain than I use. I would say that’s more like the left brain, very technical. Whereas I’m more the right brain, putting myself more in the shoes of the reader. 

If a copy editor does a job well, the reader will never even know they were there. Because what they’re doing is more invisible in terms of making sure all the rules are followed, and then there’s another stage of proofreading the galleys. They’re not really galleys anymore, but when the copy edit is done, you’ve approved everything the copy editor suggests, it gets put into type, and then you’ll get it again to really double check that what you asked the copy editor to do happened, that something didn’t get skipped or missed that that was supposed to happen. So we do like it when the author spends some time on that proof going through it. We obviously proofread it ourselves. So there’s quite a bit of quality check down the road, but it’s not like rewriting at that point, it’s not like, “oh, I wanted to mention the afterlife,” or something like that. 

What should authors expect with an editor?

Becky: Ha, that is awesome. So, Neil, what else should I know about working with an editor? Or What else should our listeners know if they choose to go the route of traditional publication? What to expect with an editor?

Neal: Yeah, I think we’re aware that there are arguments not to work with mainstream publishers. So we think a lot about what value we bring to an author, and I think what an editor does isn’t just provide his or her own feedback or opinion on your book. A good editor is a coach, project manager, team leader, advocate. I’m feeding feedback to the author from the book designer production, marketing department, my colleagues in editorial, it’s really kind of like it takes a village sort of approach. So working with a traditional publisher, like Berrett-Koehler, and working with an editor like me, it’s more that you’re getting a community built around your book. So you’re getting this real team approach and that’s something you’re just going to miss if you go through some other routes that may be quicker. 

So along with that, is the knowledge that sometimes you have to be a bit open minded as an author as well. You’re going to hear feedback on something you thought was working, and four of the five people I asked are saying that doesn’t work, we even had a little bit of that with your title. I don’t know, maybe a sore topic, but we went through some rounds in the title, and titles that I thought would work and you thought would work got pushback, and we kind of had to really push through that. And you were really good. I would say doctors make the worst patients, but you were very good at realizing even though you were in a position of having to hear the advice, which is probably not usual for you. And it does mean you’re going to hear things that other people feel aren’t working. I think the authors who are able to hear that doesn’t mean you have to do everything people ask you to do in this process. Ultimately, that is the reason why you work with a publisher, because you’re gonna end up with a book you could never have done just on your own. You’re gonna get some objective help. The cool part about working with a traditional publisher, the pays in advance and all that, is you’re not paying for that. I mean, ultimately, you’re maybe getting less royalty on the other side than if you publish it yourself, but it, I think, is a pretty good business deal for most authors to get all of that labor into improving your book. You’re not paying them on the clock. It’s kind of their job at the publisher to invest in you that way.

Becky: Yeah, it’s incredible. In case you missed it, Neal did say that most book projects include about $30,000 to $50,000 of investment from the publisher, bringing that book to market. So that’s a huge investment, and I’m honored that Berrett-Koehler has faith in me to make that kind of investment in me and my book. 

What’s the most important thing an author can do who’s aspiring to have a traditional publisher? 

Becky: So any kind of parting advice for those who might be listening who are at the place of aspiring someday, and really saying, wow a traditional publisher sounds like what I might like. What’s the most important thing they can do? I know what I would tell them, but I’m curious what you would tell them.

Neal: 

Learn the business! If you’re in these topics, this may sound like weird advice, because I particularly mentioned a blog by the publisher Bard Press, Todd Sattersten, just because he talks a lot about what editors are looking for and what books are working. So learn the business. Don’t just go to his blog, per se, but listen to podcasts like this, try to learn the book of business as well as what you want to write, because you’ll begin to think a little differently about fulfilling your own vision for a book. But starting to learn how editors think, what publishers are looking for, and it’ll just kind of begin to change how you present your book. It won’t ultimately be working in your favor if your pitch is, “I’m so excited about my book, like my family wants me to publish this book.” It has to be, “I’ve studied other books like this, and my book is going to sell more, do more good, because I’m putting this into it.” So I think it’s just getting a mindset from really studying editors and thought leaders in whatever category you’re working in, so that you’re not just talking about your ideas.

ResourcesLearn more about Berrett-Koehler Publishers, here. Click here for Proposal Guidelines for Berrett-Koehler Publishers. Check out Bard Press’s blog, here. Connect with Berret Koehler on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. Connect with Neal Maillet on LinkedIn. 

If you found value in today’s episode, we hope you’ll take a moment to share it with someone else who might benefit from it. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to cover, please email Becky Robinson here.

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The post Episode 56: The Role of an Editor In Your Author Journey appeared first on Weaving Influence.

The Role of an Editor In Your Author Journey

Photo by Antonio Diaz / 123rf.com

Click here to listen on your device and subscribe! 

Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. In this episode, we are joined by Neal Maillet—Editorial Director at Berrett-Koehler Publishers, Inc.

About Neal Maillet

Becky: I’m so excited that today I have with me, Neal Maillet from Berrett-Koehler publishers, he happens to be my editor. I’m going to let Neal tell you a little bit about his work as an editor over the years. And then we’re going to talk some about my author journey, like I said, in hopes that you’ll get a glimpse into what it’s like to partner with a traditional publisher and today specifically, the role that an editor plays on that journey. Welcome, Neal!

Neal: Thanks for having me. Wonderful to be working with you and talk about books, which is my favorite topic. I think yours too. I pretty much have had only one job in my life after college, which is working in book publishing. I’m not sure that I know about anything else, frankly. But luckily, I’ve been able to fight off imposter syndrome for 30 some odd years and work on books. I’ve always worked in nonfiction. I’ve always worked in editorial. I kind of stumbled my way into working on business books or books about career, business. It wasn’t my first choice honestly, I wanted to work on novels. I wanted to go have, like, Martini lunches at the Algonquin hotel and discuss great matters of intellectual weight. And then I ended up doing books on building mail order businesses and consulting. That was my first editing job at Wiley and I realized I loved that. I loved how clear it was whether a book was helping people or not, when you were working on books that were about things like that. 

So that’s pretty much been where I’ve been. My life as an editor, I’ve moved on to Jossey Bass Inc. in San Francisco, working there for many years. And a lot of the people I worked with at Jossey-Bass Inc. have made their way to Berrett-Koehler. So that’s kind of how I made my way to Berrett-Koehler, which is another nonfiction-only press, not just doing business titles, we also do books kind of in progressive current events. Also some personal growth books. So they kind of run the gamut of self-improvement. Our mission is creating a world that works for all. So all of our books have to have some positive change that happens when you read the book. And I also find that, again, kind of reassuring and fun to know that any book we work on has a clear kind of benefit at the end of it. You come out the other end of the book, possibly as a writer and as the author, and you have specific changes that you’re gonna make, and so that’s sort of what I do. I help authors just get clear on that and I love my job.

How many books do you work on in any given year?

Becky: Very cool. So I’m curious how many books do you work on in any given year, Neal?

Neal: Yeah, I took over the editorial department last year, and so my number went down. But it’s been pretty consistent over my career where I’ve been working on about 16 to 20 books a year. Of course, that means I’m signing up to 16 to 20 and then I’m also editing the books that I signed up the previous year. So really, it’s more at any given time,  juggling probably close to 30 titles or topics, which I think is good for authors to know. It means that sometimes I may seem like I’m not super focused on your book. I worry sometimes that authors feel like I’m not invested in their book if I’m like really, really deep into somebody else’s author crisis. So the way that it tends to work is we segment our time pretty carefully. So once I’m working on somebody’s manuscript, I’m 100% focused on that. So it’s kind of episodic that way. But that’s a way to kind of keep so many books kind of going through the system and keeping the company’s doors open.

How do you balance the author books you’re currently working on and the proposals in your email?

Becky: How do you balance the need to give attention to the authors whose books you’re currently working to bring to publication, and then the many proposals that probably land in your email?

Neal: Yeah, this is something I’ve mentioned to some other author groups and talks. I think often, sometimes people get a little bit surprised by this. But for me, even though the most important job that I have is selecting the books that will publish in terms of time, the time that gets kind of pushed down to the bottom is considering new proposal ideas, because I’m usually having to make sure that once the book gets signed up, it’s on a train schedule. We can’t miss the schedule, or some bad things happen later. So that’s always going to trump other things. So what ends up happening sometimes, is the proposals kind of pile up a little bit, and then I have to slam through them, reading them. I might read 20 proposals in an hour, or something like that, really kind of going through, so that probably horrifies authors who are working so hard on their proposals. The thing that I would tell authors who might be listening to this, and wanting to get an editor’s attention, it just kind of proves how much of a premium there is on your introduction, your cover letter. You kind of have to win me over in the first few paragraphs of your proposal, and that’s probably it. So what ends up happening is I scan them, and then once that kind of jump out is possibly promising, they get kind of set aside and then I might spend some more time on them. So that’s just kind of the hard facts about this business.

What is the reality of the amount of traffic there is for traditional publishing? 

Becky: Well, I find it fascinating. I know prior to having my own proposal accepted by Berrett-Koehler publishers, I was definitely aware that you get hundreds, if not thousands of proposals every year. So can you talk a little bit about that, for those who might be listening, to give them a reality check on the amount of traffic there is for traditional publishing? 

Neal: So I’ve counted up mine, I get anywhere from 400 to 500 proposals that come directly to me. Keep in mind that we have an email address that’s generally available submissions@bkpub.com and bkconnection.com. That is kind of vetted by our assistant editor who’s responsible for doing kind of the same thing I’ve just been describing to you. But she’s doing it more on the associate level, screening things and then maybe passing them on to me. She’s getting several a day, and she might give me like one every week or two, to look over, like, “Hey, this might be interesting to you.” So I’m seeing some of those, and then some that come directly to me. So I’m getting at least one proposal a day, probably more like two or three. And then I’m usually going to try to carve out time on Friday. 

What ends up happening is I get through the week, I’m putting out fires, things are happening, and then, like, I haven’t looked at any proposals this week. And it is true that there’s a time factor with proposals, too. I don’t want to find out that I had the proposal for the next Good to Great, or The 4-Hour Workweek and if I had only gotten back to that author or agent earlier, that might have been my book. So I’m not happy about maybe having to put off reading them. But it’s kind of a risk I guess I run. So on Friday, I’ll usually end up doing it on Fridays when things tend to quiet down, and then I just kind of power through the proposals that week, and it is a little bit a triage thing sometimes. I mean the truth is, again, I’m giving you some of the dirty underbelly of our business. I will kind of read the first paragraph and if you get me in that first paragraph or two of the proposal, I immediately jump to the author’s bio. I want to see, who is this person? Are people listening to them? Is this person a thought leader? If you have a great book idea, and this is obviously why you’re in business, Becky, and nobody knows you’re there or alive, that great book idea is gonna probably not go too far. So I do have to see that people are already following you. It’s a long haul, as you try to tell your authors. 

And then the third place I go to is the marketing plan. Do you know how to sell yourself? Do you have stuff online? So then I go back and then I really start to dig into the kind of editorial ideas, because I don’t want to have to use my brain cells to really figure out if your book idea is good until I know that you have the engine to sell it. So that’s kind of my thought process reading through proposals. I think authors would be horrified. But, one thing when I was an editorial assistant, I started at Bantam Books and I was there when they were publishing authors, like Tom Wolfe and Nathaniel Branden. I think like some other big names, Louise Erdrich, she was one of the authors that my editor worked with. The proposals all came in with 8 by 10 glossies of the authors, which horrified me. I thought, “this is disgraceful.” But they were in the entertainment business, we’re talking about one of the big New York corporate publishers, and they did take into account how good of a glossy picture the author’s gonna have. I still don’t exactly agree with that, and that does not happen with me, but it just shows you that publishers look at your book as it’s a business proposal. It’s a business investment. Publishers are going to think about how much risk there is of me getting my money back if I spend $30,000 to $50,000, which is about the average investment. So anyways, I don’t know why I brought that weird thing up.

Becky: Oh, that’s funny. I love that insider view. I think you’ve probably seen and done a lot of things that our listeners would find interesting. So we might have to circle back on some of those publishing stories. 

Once you have a good idea, can you sell the book?

Becky: So we’ve talked a little bit about your process in vetting proposals, but I want to make sure that I emphasize what you said, which is that editors are looking at each proposal as a business decision and a business investment and, maybe more important, once you have a good idea, is can you sell the book?

Neal: I think, as the editor, maybe I’m presuming too much, but I think I have a certain amount of persuasion and sway inside the company that this is a good book idea, this is an author worth listening to. So I usually get those points for that, as a given. The part that I really need to start selling to my colleagues, because I don’t just make the decision, “Oh, we’re going to publish it.” I decided, like, “Hey, this is a good decision, this is a good investment. I like this author. I think this is a good title.” Now I have to convince sales and marketing, that they’re going to be able to sell it. 

So a lot of my energy internally in the company is more focused on that side of it. And again, I don’t think authors are completely aware that most of the discussion inside the company is going to be about that sales and marketing piece and publicity. Most of your conversations with your editor, one hopes, is about the content, the quality, the ideas, you’re going to get all that. But that’s kind of like a one-on-one thing with your editor. Most of the work that is for the publisher is around, “How do we sell this thing?” and “Is the author going to be the chief marketing and sales officer?” Because if the author is just going to sit around and wait for the publisher to figure it out, it’s not going to work.

Becky: That’s really powerful. 

How did you evaluate my book proposal?

Becky: So for a minute, let’s talk a little bit about how I got here to having a book contract with Berrett-Koehler publishers. I remember Neal, when you called me to offer me the contract, I was wishing that we had recorded it because I thought it would have been a really helpful conversation for others to hear.

So I’m not asking for you to like sing my praises or anything right now, but I do think it would be interesting for you to share for a minute about how you evaluated my proposal. And just before we go there, for everyone who’s listening, if you haven’t read some of the blog posts that I’ve been writing about my author journey, I brought several ideas to Neal over the years before I got him to say yes to one. And when I did finally craft an entire proposal, it was the first time, but it was only because Neal said no. And then in July, I think it was, we had a call and I shared my latest idea with you. And you said, “yes, I’d look at a proposal for that.” It only took me about six months probably to get it in your inbox. So let’s pick up the story there.

Neal: I think what’s fun about this book and you is that it’s kind of a weird synchronicity of your message to your clients and to people who hire you. You’ve eaten your own cooking because you’ve gone through that same process personally, and you’re writing a book and you’ve been rejected and told no early on. It really was kind of that same, you had really good book ideas probably, when I first met you, when we first started discussing books, but you didn’t have the brand yet that made me feel confident. Like, “Oh, this is going to be a great investment.” And then interestingly by the time you circled around with this last book idea, and I’ve kind of known you the past few years, it suddenly just hit me like, she’s a brand. She’s not the same Becky Robinson I spoke to in 2012 where you had a certain email list, and you were building your business. It hit me kind of as like a thunderclap like, oh, this is a completely different kind of book discussion now. So you had the great book idea, which is kind of why the conversation got started in the first place, but then it kind of hit me all of a sudden, that you have the marketing engine now that is kind of at the top of your class. 

It’s funny, when I sent you the email when I got a yes from my colleagues, you got through the meeting, I had a picture of that scene in Bull Durham, when the phone call comes through, I can’t remember if Tim Robbins is the actor who plays that, luckily, you’re a much better book figure than he was as a pitcher. But it’s like, you’re going to the show, and that was exactly what it seemed like to me. You’re definitely in the major league kind of echelon now, as somebody who’s really earned your stripes and kind of did the hard work of building your platform and your brand. But without a great book idea, it’s a really weird balance. If you had had all of that, and your book idea is like, it’s okay, that wouldn’t work. If you have an amazing book idea, which I’m sure some of your book ideas were probably great when I first started talking to you, but there’s this kind of balance between the two. That’s why you’re writing a book right now and not probably spending as much time with your kids as you should.

Becky: Haha! Well, for those who might be listening, like what I really feel and I want to emphasize what you said, it’s not only about having a platform, you also have to have a great idea. And it’s not only about having a great idea, you also have to have a platform. Thanks, thanks so much. It’s so fun to share this journey with you and with the rest of the team at BK. 

What is your role as an editor? Where do you give your attention along the journey?

Becky: So Neal, this has been such a fun conversation to reflect on all the different things that came together for me to be doing a book now. What I want to do now is give our listeners a glimpse about the role of an editor once you get to this point. So you mentioned 500 proposals that you see every year, 16 to 20, you offer a contract to based on feedback from the rest of the publication board. So then you’re really journeying with those 16 to 20 authors a year from the initial idea and concept in the proposal to the publication of the book, which in my case from signing, the contract is going to be about 14 months. So talk about the role that you have as an editor and what the different places are, because you explain that you kind of have different moments that you step in. You’re not necessarily giving an author all of your attention all the time. So what are the key places along the journey?

Neal: Yeah, that’s a good question. Because I think it’s actually changed in the industry since I started editing. As an editor, I hate to say, my first publishing job was in 1987. So that kind of tells you how long I’ve been around. And at that time, actually, the pressure on the platform, it was there, but it wasn’t as heavy. More unknowns could kind of break out, because there was just a massive number of bookstores and the book industry was much bigger than it is now, frankly. So I spent a lot of my time my first years, doing what we call line editing. Going through, line by line, and really reworking the content and sending drafts back to the author. 

Now, I’m caught, partly as a part of the workflow, but also part of the way that I think the book industry has changed, my time is more episodic. Meaning that, once I get a book signed up, as has happened in your case, a lot of effort goes into the concept at the start, and that’s one reason why we pick the title so early. It used to be really like, why would you pick a title until the book is done? How can you title something until you know what this thing is? Because it’s gonna come out a little differently than you expected. So that’s how, I’m looking back and kind of amazed to remember that it was like that. Now, we pretty much set the title, possibly before the author’s even started writing, and part of that is to help get the author clear on the concept that the book is selling. Like, what’s the message? Because the writing is going to go a lot better if that’s super clear up front, and then the author’s just doing variations on the theme, rather than going off into the wilderness and trying to figure out the plum of your soul and how do I put that on paper? So, there’s a lot of intense focus, when you get started. 

Then I go away, unless you have a podcast, which was very clever of you to get me back and get some attention. But I go away, because I’m now doing that work with other authors, and then the author is kind of trying to fulfill that vision. We have reviewers at Berrett-Koehler who do most of that line work and kind of line-by-line commentary. We still provide that, but my work has to be more on the bigger picture of, “is that vision happening? Did the author really fulfill the plan?” And so, again, I’m looking more at the conceptual purity, if you will. 

So when the manuscript comes in, I give another bunch of really concentrated time, where I’m thinking more of what I would call developmental editing versus line editing. I think people think of movies and stuff, where the editors got a big manuscript, and I’m project manager on like maybe 40 things at a given time. So I don’t have that. Maybe there was time in the business, at one time, for me to spend three days line editing a manuscript. I now have to kind of portion my time a little more to give that work more to the reviewers, and sometimes to other developmental editors, but I’m going through the reviews, and also figuring out what developmentally and subject wise is happening in the book. Then giving the author maybe some feedback on, “you’re writing a chapter on book marketing, but you forgot to mention the internet” or something. So that’s kind of where I’m coming from.

Then the author goes away for another month, and works on that. And then hopefully, the final manuscript comes in and is perfect. And, in our process at Berrett-Koehler, I think the way we do that, we very, very rarely get to the finish line, and the book isn’t really what we were hoping for, and ready to go into production. In other publishers, there’s often a train that derails at that point, like something just went wrong along the way. The author didn’t really get the support and feedback, and the whole book gets delayed. Sorry, it’s gonna have to come out six months later. So I think our process is pretty good. It’s not like constant attention, but it’s also a little more strategic. I don’t know if  any of that made sense. It made sense to me.

What role does the publisher have in proofreading? 

Becky: No, it definitely made sense. I think the one thing that’s not clear to me is what happens as it relates to the fine tune proofreading. Is that the responsibility of the author? What role does the publisher have? 

Neal: So there’s a certain amount of just general fact checking and feedback that’s happening in the process of the first draft and the early drafts. I will go in and do some spot checks. Like my favorite pet peeve is every inspirational quote you’re gonna find on the internet from Gandhi or Mother Teresa is false. He never said those things and people put them in books because it sounds great. So one of my first things is just to kind of spot check some of the factual stuff and if it looks like the author’s being really careful then I relax my guard on that. So there’s a little bit of that point work that I do. 

But what’s really called copy editing, where the person is going to go word by word through that book, happens after I’m out of the picture. So my job is to make sure the book makes sense, and it’s marketable and going to be something somebody wants to read. But it’s the copy editor, who’s probably going to spend upwards of 40-50 hours possibly going line by line and making sure everything is spelled properly, proper grammar, proper style and usage. Asking questions, saying “This doesn’t make sense.” So that happens after, when it’s in production, essentially. It’s very detailed, but it’s also a different part of the brain than I use. I would say that’s more like the left brain, very technical. Whereas I’m more the right brain, putting myself more in the shoes of the reader. 

If a copy editor does a job well, the reader will never even know they were there. Because what they’re doing is more invisible in terms of making sure all the rules are followed, and then there’s another stage of proofreading the galleys. They’re not really galleys anymore, but when the copy edit is done, you’ve approved everything the copy editor suggests, it gets put into type, and then you’ll get it again to really double check that what you asked the copy editor to do happened, that something didn’t get skipped or missed that that was supposed to happen. So we do like it when the author spends some time on that proof going through it. We obviously proofread it ourselves. So there’s quite a bit of quality check down the road, but it’s not like rewriting at that point, it’s not like, “oh, I wanted to mention the afterlife,” or something like that. 

What should authors expect with an editor?

Becky: Ha, that is awesome. So, Neil, what else should I know about working with an editor? Or What else should our listeners know if they choose to go the route of traditional publication? What to expect with an editor?

Neal: Yeah, I think we’re aware that there are arguments not to work with mainstream publishers. So we think a lot about what value we bring to an author, and I think what an editor does isn’t just provide his or her own feedback or opinion on your book. A good editor is a coach, project manager, team leader, advocate. I’m feeding feedback to the author from the book designer production, marketing department, my colleagues in editorial, it’s really kind of like it takes a village sort of approach. So working with a traditional publisher, like Berrett-Koehler, and working with an editor like me, it’s more that you’re getting a community built around your book. So you’re getting this real team approach and that’s something you’re just going to miss if you go through some other routes that may be quicker. 

So along with that, is the knowledge that sometimes you have to be a bit open minded as an author as well. You’re going to hear feedback on something you thought was working, and four of the five people I asked are saying that doesn’t work, we even had a little bit of that with your title. I don’t know, maybe a sore topic, but we went through some rounds in the title, and titles that I thought would work and you thought would work got pushback, and we kind of had to really push through that. And you were really good. I would say doctors make the worst patients, but you were very good at realizing even though you were in a position of having to hear the advice, which is probably not usual for you. And it does mean you’re going to hear things that other people feel aren’t working. I think the authors who are able to hear that doesn’t mean you have to do everything people ask you to do in this process. Ultimately, that is the reason why you work with a publisher, because you’re gonna end up with a book you could never have done just on your own. You’re gonna get some objective help. The cool part about working with a traditional publisher, the pays in advance and all that, is you’re not paying for that. I mean, ultimately, you’re maybe getting less royalty on the other side than if you publish it yourself, but it, I think, is a pretty good business deal for most authors to get all of that labor into improving your book. You’re not paying them on the clock. It’s kind of their job at the publisher to invest in you that way.

Becky: Yeah, it’s incredible. In case you missed it, Neal did say that most book projects include about $30,000 to $50,000 of investment from the publisher, bringing that book to market. So that’s a huge investment, and I’m honored that Berrett-Koehler has faith in me to make that kind of investment in me and my book. 

What’s the most important thing an author can do who’s aspiring to have a traditional publisher? 

Becky: So any kind of parting advice for those who might be listening who are at the place of aspiring someday, and really saying, wow a traditional publisher sounds like what I might like. What’s the most important thing they can do? I know what I would tell them, but I’m curious what you would tell them.

Neal: 

Learn the business! If you’re in these topics, this may sound like weird advice, because I particularly mentioned a blog by the publisher Bard Press, Todd Sattersten, just because he talks a lot about what editors are looking for and what books are working. So learn the business. Don’t just go to his blog, per se, but listen to podcasts like this, try to learn the book of business as well as what you want to write, because you’ll begin to think a little differently about fulfilling your own vision for a book. But starting to learn how editors think, what publishers are looking for, and it’ll just kind of begin to change how you present your book. It won’t ultimately be working in your favor if your pitch is, “I’m so excited about my book, like my family wants me to publish this book.” It has to be, “I’ve studied other books like this, and my book is going to sell more, do more good, because I’m putting this into it.” So I think it’s just getting a mindset from really studying editors and thought leaders in whatever category you’re working in, so that you’re not just talking about your ideas.

ResourcesLearn more about Berrett-Koehler Publishers, here. Click here for Proposal Guidelines for Berrett-Koehler Publishers. Check out Bard Press’s blog, here. Connect with Berret Koehler on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. Connect with Neal Maillet on LinkedIn. 

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The post The Role of an Editor In Your Author Journey appeared first on Weaving Influence.

Episode 55: Lisa Kohn’s Author Journey

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Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. In this episode, we are joined by Lisa Kohn—award winning author, leadership consultant, and executive coach.

Today’s episode is part of a new series. The series is based on my book, which is scheduled to come from Berrett Koehler publishers in April 2022. So this is the first time ever on the podcast that I am going to announce that the book is coming. The book is called Reach: Creating Lasting Impact for your Book, Message, or Cause. Lisa Kohn is an author friend of mine, and I’m interviewing her for the purposes of talking about her in the book. So we decided that we would use our own approach, which is to repurpose content, and that we would record a podcast with Lisa so that you can learn from her now, so later, I can put some of her lessons into my book. And we have some other surprises along the way about how we want to repurpose our content in a way that will help our audiences the most. 

About Lisa Kohn

Becky: So Lisa, let’s start, and I would love for you to introduce our audience to you and talk about your work in the world and your books, as we get started.

Lisa: So yes, thank you for saying books. So as you know, my story starts broad and comes down narrow. I’ll start with the way I described my childhood is: the best seats I ever had at Madison Square Garden, Were at my mother’s wedding because my mom got married on July 1, 1982, with 2,075 other couples, because I grew up in a religious cult, a member of the Unification Church. On the other hand, the best cocaine I ever had was from my father’s friend, the judge. Yes, really a judge, I’ve been asked. 

And that was then, and now I am an author, award-winning author, leadership consultant, executive coach. I work with C-suite leaders in Fortune 50 companies and nonprofits, helping them be more thoughtful, more intentional, more present, and more authentic in their work and in their lives. So that’s me, the two sides, and the books reflect that. So a number of years ago, we put out our book, The Power of Thoughtful Leadership, which is truly, long story short, my life is saved many ways by daily readers. The Power of Thoughtful Leadership is basically a daily reader where you can find a topic and find a quick thought on how to stop and ground and be more intentional on how you show up. And then two and a half years ago, tomorrow, my memoir To the Moon and Back: A Childhood Under the Influence was published. So those are my two books that I have been pushing and riding the waves with for the last few years.

What was the journey of publishing your memoir?

Becky: Thank you so much, Lisa. Let’s talk specifically today, I’m really interested in diving into your book To the Moon and Back. Because when I first met you, you had a draft of that memoir, and it took a few years before you brought it to market. But I’m curious what aspirations fueled that and tell us a little bit about that journey to publishing your memoir.

Lisa: So I get asked many times why I did it. What was the reason? What fueled me to do it? And I hate to admit, I don’t know fully. So long story short, I crashed and burned in the mid, almost late 80s, and was engaged to someone who drank a hell of a lot and was just on the road to destruction, self destruction, and I crawled into a 12 step program called Al-Anon, saying, “tell me if he’s an alcoholic; there’s no way I’d ever be with an alcoholic.” First of all, there are a myriad of reasons why I would be; I grew up in a cult. I would tell my story, and people with their jaws would drop, right? As my brother says, when you run with like hundreds of people who tell all these incredible stories and you tell yours and everybody goes, “Wow,” you go, “Oh, there’s something there,” and everyone would say you should write a book. 

So fast forward. Still a long time ago, probably about 20 years or so, I decided to write, because I was a coach, I was gonna write a powerful, hopeful book, and I was gonna write a half memoir, half self-help. “Here’s what happened to me. Here’s how it messed me up. I got better, you can too.” I would get incredibly warm glowing rejections from agents, “amazing story,” “you’re actually a good writer,” “you’re not famous enough,” “where will they put you in Barnes and Noble.” Then in around 2009, an agent called me and said, “If you write a memoir, I’ll represent you”, to which I famously said, “Please excuse me, I don’t want to write another Glass Castle because I want to write a glimmer of hope.” And she said, “You should be so lucky as to write a Glass Castle.” And she’s right, because it’s an amazing book, but I wrote the memoir, and she didn’t take me on. Then there was a series of many years finding another agent that I then lost. Finally, I found my publisher directly. It’s an indie house in East Village where I grew up in New York City. I found her in 2016, and signed with her in 2017. The book came out in 2018. So you have more to your question than that, but that’s a long story. 

Now, I have reasons why I’ve spent the last two and a half years strongly promoting the book, and even bringing the book very clearly into the work I do with leaders and bringing my past into it. But I did it, because someone said it was a good idea. And one of the scars of my childhood is that if you put something in front of me, I will do it. I will do it no matter what. I will do it till I die, even if I die, I will get it done. I was persistent and got amazing rejections for a really long time and never gave up. Now the book is out there making a difference in the world, which is why I care about it. So where do you want me go further with that question?

What are your greatest hopes for your book?

Becky: Sure, I’d love to hear what your greatest hopes for the book are. So now that it’s here, you mentioned that you’ve been marketing it for two and a half years. What is it that you want this book to do? What are your hopes for it?

Lisa: So the week it came out, it came out on Tuesday, and that Thursday morning, I was on Megyn Kelly back when there was a Megyn Kelly show. And that Thursday evening, I had a book reading in my hometown where I live in Pennsylvania, outside of Philly. And in the afternoon, I was sitting on my side porch, and my next door neighbor said, “Hey, what’s going on today?” And I said, “Funny, you should ask, I was on national television this morning.” And I told him the story because nobody really knew. I always kept it quiet. And within weeks, his wife emailed me and she said, “thank you for giving us all the courage to tell our childhood stories,” and that’s why I do it. 

So I have three messages. My three main messages are that extremist situations exist, they are really prevalent, they are all over. They’re highly intoxicating. It is the best drug ever to have a Messiah, and they’re very dangerous. Message two: for anyone who feels hopeless or damaged beyond repair, there is hope and you are not damaged. I realized when the book came out, I still thought I was damaged. I have them, I have scars. I’m not damaged. It’s a very different perspective. And the third that I know from my own life, from my work as an executive coach, is that as a species, we are way too hard on ourselves. We’re self-critical and self-judging and we just need a huge dose of self-love, and self-compassion. 

So my hope for the book is that it will spread these messages that will reach the people who have been in or grown up in extreme situations, and those who’ve had any sort of situation, and help them realize that the shame they’re holding is not theirs to keep. They don’t need to be in shame and they can truly let it go. I’m still trying to let mine go, but I’m daily letting it go. As I said to someone just the other day, if I’ve only reached the thousands, maybe tens of thousands, I’ve reached with the book and with the message, then that’s enough, because I am lucky to be happy, right? And I just want to spread that message of hope and love, self-compassion and self-love, to as many people as I possibly can, which I also do in my work. I like to say I’m the executive coach who talks about love in the C-suite, right? But now that books out and you Google me, you know my story. So I will tell everybody, I grew up in a cult. Yep, I ended up in a 12 step program. And yes, you deserve to be happy and to take care of yourself. And let’s help you do that. So that’s why!

How do you feel looking back on being on national TV?

Becky: I love that. So Lisa, you mentioned being on the Megyn Kelly show, and I watched that clip, it was amazing. And that’s obviously national TV. A big platform is a huge one for any author. So I’m curious if you would share with us briefly about what that achieved for you or how you feel about it looking back now?

Lisa: You know, that’s a funny question. So when the book was coming out, I hired a branding firm to help me, not yours, but a different branding firm to help me do the cover of the book and stuff, and then I hired a publicist, because I was determined to do this. And they did get me on Megyn Kelly and it was a wonderful experience. I don’t know that it did very much for me other than let me be able to say I’m on Megyn Kelly and know that I could be on Megyn Kelly and be fine. Like literally you just talk to Megyn and talk to Megyn, and she got something completely wrong before the commercial break. And you can kind of tell because we went to commercial break and I said, “That’s not what happened.” So when we come back from commercial break, she starts to say something and she’s like “Well, maybe you should tell us the story,” because she realized she had no idea what the story was. But you think, “Megyn Kelly! Millions of people will buy my book!” No, no. You know, and my message was less honed then. I was just starting out, my message has truly developed as I’ve spoken somewhat endlessly about it over the last two and a half years. So I’m happy I did it. I got a lot of great publicity, probably the best thing I got was, I was in Marie Claire, and that went on Apple News for the weekend, which was really cool. 

So publicity is great. But publicity, sometimes it feels like it only got me the chance to say that I have publicity, right? Which can get me more publicity, but you never know. You never know where one, just the one right person is going to see it. There’s currently potentially a documentary on the church that I’m involved with, because the producer was looking for something and stumbled on my book. So you never know who you’re going to reach and when. 

What do you think has worked best for you for expanding the reach of this book?

Becky: So I love that you said that, Lisa, that you never know who you’re going to reach when. So could you talk a bit more about what you think has worked best for you and expanding the reach of this book.

Lisa: I honestly say the good thing about believing I have an important message is it means I asked just about anybody and everybody, if they know somewhere I can speak, somewhere I can do a reading, somewhere I can promote. So I just keep asking. I do think it’s those, that it just keeps going and beginning more and beginning more and beginning more. 

There’s the potential documentary. There’s something else maybe going to happen that’s really cool. And if it does, we’ll probably help it push really high. But it’s just asking this person and asking this person. And I guess guest blog posts in places, and I speak just about anywhere, I just keep going. I do as many podcasts as possible, whenever someone reaches out if it makes sense, I’ll do it. Because on one hand, it will help it take off, and on the other hand, if I reach that one person who’s in pain, then that’s why I’m really doing it, right? It’s the emails and the Twitter direct messages and the Instagram messages. It’s those things I get that blow my mind from strangers that keep me just going. I wish I had a plan other than try this, try that, and try this and try that, and try and try and try and try, and keep asking people who they know who’d want to help me spread the message.

Becky: I think you hit on something really important, Lisa. You have to keep going.

Lisa: It’s not even a marathon. It’s like a triathlon and I can’t swim. So it’s a hard triathlon, right? It’s constantly reaching my leadership consulting business, right? And the book, there’s always at least a couple hundred things, I should be doing more, right? There’s always more, there’s always another. So it’s this combination of, what do I want to do today? What am I going to do this week? What am I going to do? And then also, when am I going to stop? When am I going to practice what I preach? When am I going to take care of myself? Because I could work nonstop and never get it all done. But each week there’s one more email I send or person I ask or place I can speak. I literally ran into a neighbor and was like, “Oh, I didn’t know your husband was the pastor of the church. What do you want me to talk to anybody about extreme religions?” Right? Because I’m able to say it’s not about me. Yes, I’d love to sell millions of books. Yes, I want to be in the New York Times bestseller, but one because it’s fun, but mostly because I want people to hear the message. So it allows me to just keep asking and just keep going and take some time off and then pick it up and do a couple more things.

What is your attitude towards fame and fortune?

Becky: Love it. So you alluded a bit to it, but I’m wondering if you would tell me what your attitude toward fame and fortune is?

Lisa: My attitude towards fame and fortune. If I’m lucky enough to get it, I’ll probably wonder why I wanted it. Right? If I was really famous, right? Because I know that it does a whole warpy thing to one’s life. If the documentary and a couple other things actually happen, it could be really fun. And I’m just determined to have fun with it. And again, I go back to the message I want to share is so important to me, that fame and fortune is a way to share that message. So I know that the world doesn’t need me to share it, but I can be one more person who can share it, right? And if I can get famous enough that my story is big enough that other people can be in their situation and know that they have hope, then it’s all worth it. If something interesting happens, I might make the money I’ve spent on the book, I may never make the money back I spent on the book, but I did it. I did it for a reason. I did it for all of those who were called second gens or third or fourth, like those of us born and raised in extremist situations. I did it for all of them. I did it for anyone who’s stuck in an extremist situation. I did it for anyone who has this dysfunction in their family and in their childhood and in their current family and is in pain and suffering. That’s why I did it. So I’m determined to have fun with whatever happens. But I’m also out here to hopefully have one more person reach out to me and say thank you, you really gave me hope.

What role has generosity played in your journey?

Becky: So Lisa, tell me what role generosity has played on your journey.

Lisa: Well, I probably am very generous with the book itself. Actually, I’m keynoting for a not for profit, annual luncheon Women’s Resource Center here in Wayne in April. And I am obviously donating books to give away in the hopes that it makes more people sign up. If I meet someone in an extremist situation, or born and raised in an extremist situation, I will always give them the book for free, give them an electronic book or send them a copy of the book. So I tried to be generous. I try to be generous with my time. I try to be generous with my story. I will answer almost any question, as long as it’s not about the immediate family right now, I’ll answer any question. I will just bear any part of the weirdness inside me in order to help people, so I’m hoping I’m generous. And I clearly have gotten a lot of generosity. I have people introduce me to people. I have people open their homes to have me come and speak to their friends. I’ve had people sponsor things for events for me. I will do any book club. I will do anything and I’ve had people open themselves and invite their friends to come and hear it. So generosity has been given to me and I try to be generous as I keep going. 

What is a book Fairy?

Becky: I’m trying to remember back before COVID stopped most air travel. I remember that you had this approach of leaving books in airports. Talk about that.

Lisa: It’s called book fairies. I believe it originated in Scotland. It’s still going, they’re doing it in a different way. But it’s a worldwide initiative where authors will leave their books and other books, called book fairies. And it’s like, leave a book, enjoy the book, pass it on. And it’s just the idea to spread the message of your book and other books and get people reading again. The book fairies, it’s great, and they are still going in some ways. Clearly, it’s shut down a lot since COVID, and hopefully it will pick back up a lot when things open up again. But yeah, it was fun. I had friends who I gave eight of my books, and I’m like, “leave them every time you’re anywhere”, and then they would leave them and then post it. And I did it so many times. The first time the person reached out to me, and then they left it that next day, and that person reached out to me. And most of the other times I didn’t hear from anybody, but you never know. You never know who’s gonna read it. You never know who’s going to read it, who’s going to pick it up or pass it on or whatever. So yeah, it’s just another way to spread the love.

Is there anything you’ve learned about book marketing you wish I had asked you about?

Becky: So Lisa, is there anything else that you’ve learned about book marketing that you wish I had asked you about?

Lisa: It feels daunting, right? You’re probably going to say there are specific things one should do and, and there are, but I always say it feels like there’s always more that I could be doing. And there must be a secret sauce that I haven’t figured out yet. 

But I don’t know that that’s actually true. And so for me, it’s just one day at a time. One more thing. One more thing. Do I need to sign up for this class? It tells me exactly how to do it. Maybe, maybe not. There’s always more. That’s not supposed to be the answer I’m supposed to give. But it’s this combination of, what do I want to do today? Why am I doing this? When do I need to take a break? And what’s one more thing I can do? I was told I’d be lucky if I sold 200 books. I’ve sold a lot more than 200 books. They say nonfiction books sell about 200 on average from an unknown author. So that is what it is. Always be willing to look one more place, talk to one more person, ask for one more idea, listen to Becky, and have her tell you what you should do, and then not beat yourself up too hard if it doesn’t make you the biggest best seller, because who knows. I’ve had to really think about why I’m doing this and manage my own expectations for it so that I am happy with how it’s going rather than upset with how it’s going. 

Action Steps

Becky: That helps. So at the end of every episode of the Book Marketing Action Podcast, we always like to leave our listeners with one or two action steps that they can take and implement this week. As you said, Lisa, this idea of, “what am I going to do today” that you have to ask yourself. And so I’m wondering if together we can co-create a couple of action steps based on our conversation, some things that people could do today. 

Tell your neighbors about your book.  I’m going to pull one out, Lisa, you talked about talking to your neighbors about your book. And I wonder if there are any authors listening today who live in a situation where they haven’t told their neighbors that they wrote a book. I’m gonna challenge you today, talk to someone who lives where you live, and if you haven’t ever told them about your book, tell them.

Lisa: I think that’s a great one. I like to say, mine’s a memoir, right, and so in my neighborhood, I would say, maybe half the women and a quarter of the men had read the book. So I go to a party, and I’ll be like, please don’t answer this, “Hey, when did you lose your virginity? Okay, so we’re even.” Everybody kind of knows these things. So probably your book isn’t quite as revealing as mine. So yeah, talk to your neighbor is a dang good idea because you never know who has a cousin who runs a bookstore, who has a cousin who is a professor, you don’t know, until you put it out there. 

And so I would add to that, two points: 

Sharing your message isn’t self-promotion. One is to find a reason to do it so you don’t feel like you’re self-promoting. Because self promotion doesn’t work, right? Self promotion doesn’t work for me. I can’t, as much as it feels, people may think I self-promote, it doesn’t work for me just to be promoting myself, right? I have a message I’m trying to share. Start sharing your message. You can hone in on it as you go. And then when you know that message, there are ways to get on lists for podcasts. People have podcasts, they reach out to you, or to reach out to other podcast owners. Find the next thing you want to do and find the way to get the list to find those people and just start spreading your message and seeing where it goes and honing your message as you go along. ResourcesClick here for Lisa Kohn’s author website. To learn more about Lisa Kohn’s consulting company, click here. Connect with Lisa Kohn on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.Watch Lisa’s interview on the Megyn Kelly Show, here. 

If you found value in today’s episode, we hope you’ll take a moment to share it with someone else who might benefit from it. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to cover, please email Becky Robinson here.

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The post Episode 55: Lisa Kohn’s Author Journey appeared first on Weaving Influence.

Lisa Kohn’s Author Journey

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Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. In this episode, we are joined by Lisa Kohn—award winning author, leadership consultant, and executive coach.

Today’s episode is part of a new series. The series is based on my book, which is scheduled to come from Berrett Koehler publishers in April 2022. So this is the first time ever on the podcast that I am going to announce that the book is coming. The book is called Reach: Creating Lasting Impact for your Book, Message, or Cause. Lisa Kohn is an author friend of mine, and I’m interviewing her for the purposes of talking about her in the book. So we decided that we would use our own approach, which is to repurpose content, and that we would record a podcast with Lisa so that you can learn from her now, so later, I can put some of her lessons into my book. And we have some other surprises along the way about how we want to repurpose our content in a way that will help our audiences the most. 

About Lisa Kohn

Becky: So Lisa, let’s start, and I would love for you to introduce our audience to you and talk about your work in the world and your books, as we get started.

Lisa: So yes, thank you for saying books. So as you know, my story starts broad and comes down narrow. I’ll start with the way I described my childhood is: the best seats I ever had at Madison Square Garden, Were at my mother’s wedding because my mom got married on July 1, 1982, with 2,075 other couples, because I grew up in a religious cult, a member of the Unification Church. On the other hand, the best cocaine I ever had was from my father’s friend, the judge. Yes, really a judge, I’ve been asked. 

And that was then, and now I am an author, award-winning author, leadership consultant, executive coach. I work with C-suite leaders in Fortune 50 companies and nonprofits, helping them be more thoughtful, more intentional, more present, and more authentic in their work and in their lives. So that’s me, the two sides, and the books reflect that. So a number of years ago, we put out our book, The Power of Thoughtful Leadership, which is truly, long story short, my life is saved many ways by daily readers. The Power of Thoughtful Leadership is basically a daily reader where you can find a topic and find a quick thought on how to stop and ground and be more intentional on how you show up. And then two and a half years ago, tomorrow, my memoir To the Moon and Back: A Childhood Under the Influence was published. So those are my two books that I have been pushing and riding the waves with for the last few years.

What was the journey of publishing your memoir?

Becky: Thank you so much, Lisa. Let’s talk specifically today, I’m really interested in diving into your book To the Moon and Back. Because when I first met you, you had a draft of that memoir, and it took a few years before you brought it to market. But I’m curious what aspirations fueled that and tell us a little bit about that journey to publishing your memoir.

Lisa: So I get asked many times why I did it. What was the reason? What fueled me to do it? And I hate to admit, I don’t know fully. So long story short, I crashed and burned in the mid, almost late 80s, and was engaged to someone who drank a hell of a lot and was just on the road to destruction, self destruction, and I crawled into a 12 step program called Al-Anon, saying, “tell me if he’s an alcoholic; there’s no way I’d ever be with an alcoholic.” First of all, there are a myriad of reasons why I would be; I grew up in a cult. I would tell my story, and people with their jaws would drop, right? As my brother says, when you run with like hundreds of people who tell all these incredible stories and you tell yours and everybody goes, “Wow,” you go, “Oh, there’s something there,” and everyone would say you should write a book. 

So fast forward. Still a long time ago, probably about 20 years or so, I decided to write, because I was a coach, I was gonna write a powerful, hopeful book, and I was gonna write a half memoir, half self-help. “Here’s what happened to me. Here’s how it messed me up. I got better, you can too.” I would get incredibly warm glowing rejections from agents, “amazing story,” “you’re actually a good writer,” “you’re not famous enough,” “where will they put you in Barnes and Noble.” Then in around 2009, an agent called me and said, “If you write a memoir, I’ll represent you”, to which I famously said, “Please excuse me, I don’t want to write another Glass Castle because I want to write a glimmer of hope.” And she said, “You should be so lucky as to write a Glass Castle.” And she’s right, because it’s an amazing book, but I wrote the memoir, and she didn’t take me on. Then there was a series of many years finding another agent that I then lost. Finally, I found my publisher directly. It’s an indie house in East Village where I grew up in New York City. I found her in 2016, and signed with her in 2017. The book came out in 2018. So you have more to your question than that, but that’s a long story. 

Now, I have reasons why I’ve spent the last two and a half years strongly promoting the book, and even bringing the book very clearly into the work I do with leaders and bringing my past into it. But I did it, because someone said it was a good idea. And one of the scars of my childhood is that if you put something in front of me, I will do it. I will do it no matter what. I will do it till I die, even if I die, I will get it done. I was persistent and got amazing rejections for a really long time and never gave up. Now the book is out there making a difference in the world, which is why I care about it. So where do you want me go further with that question?

What are your greatest hopes for your book?

Becky: Sure, I’d love to hear what your greatest hopes for the book are. So now that it’s here, you mentioned that you’ve been marketing it for two and a half years. What is it that you want this book to do? What are your hopes for it?

Lisa: So the week it came out, it came out on Tuesday, and that Thursday morning, I was on Megyn Kelly back when there was a Megyn Kelly show. And that Thursday evening, I had a book reading in my hometown where I live in Pennsylvania, outside of Philly. And in the afternoon, I was sitting on my side porch, and my next door neighbor said, “Hey, what’s going on today?” And I said, “Funny, you should ask, I was on national television this morning.” And I told him the story because nobody really knew. I always kept it quiet. And within weeks, his wife emailed me and she said, “thank you for giving us all the courage to tell our childhood stories,” and that’s why I do it. 

So I have three messages. My three main messages are that extremist situations exist, they are really prevalent, they are all over. They’re highly intoxicating. It is the best drug ever to have a Messiah, and they’re very dangerous. Message two: for anyone who feels hopeless or damaged beyond repair, there is hope and you are not damaged. I realized when the book came out, I still thought I was damaged. I have them, I have scars. I’m not damaged. It’s a very different perspective. And the third that I know from my own life, from my work as an executive coach, is that as a species, we are way too hard on ourselves. We’re self-critical and self-judging and we just need a huge dose of self-love, and self-compassion. 

So my hope for the book is that it will spread these messages that will reach the people who have been in or grown up in extreme situations, and those who’ve had any sort of situation, and help them realize that the shame they’re holding is not theirs to keep. They don’t need to be in shame and they can truly let it go. I’m still trying to let mine go, but I’m daily letting it go. As I said to someone just the other day, if I’ve only reached the thousands, maybe tens of thousands, I’ve reached with the book and with the message, then that’s enough, because I am lucky to be happy, right? And I just want to spread that message of hope and love, self-compassion and self-love, to as many people as I possibly can, which I also do in my work. I like to say I’m the executive coach who talks about love in the C-suite, right? But now that books out and you Google me, you know my story. So I will tell everybody, I grew up in a cult. Yep, I ended up in a 12 step program. And yes, you deserve to be happy and to take care of yourself. And let’s help you do that. So that’s why!

How do you feel looking back on being on national TV?

Becky: I love that. So Lisa, you mentioned being on the Megyn Kelly show, and I watched that clip, it was amazing. And that’s obviously national TV. A big platform is a huge one for any author. So I’m curious if you would share with us briefly about what that achieved for you or how you feel about it looking back now?

Lisa: You know, that’s a funny question. So when the book was coming out, I hired a branding firm to help me, not yours, but a different branding firm to help me do the cover of the book and stuff, and then I hired a publicist, because I was determined to do this. And they did get me on Megyn Kelly and it was a wonderful experience. I don’t know that it did very much for me other than let me be able to say I’m on Megyn Kelly and know that I could be on Megyn Kelly and be fine. Like literally you just talk to Megyn and talk to Megyn, and she got something completely wrong before the commercial break. And you can kind of tell because we went to commercial break and I said, “That’s not what happened.” So when we come back from commercial break, she starts to say something and she’s like “Well, maybe you should tell us the story,” because she realized she had no idea what the story was. But you think, “Megyn Kelly! Millions of people will buy my book!” No, no. You know, and my message was less honed then. I was just starting out, my message has truly developed as I’ve spoken somewhat endlessly about it over the last two and a half years. So I’m happy I did it. I got a lot of great publicity, probably the best thing I got was, I was in Marie Claire, and that went on Apple News for the weekend, which was really cool. 

So publicity is great. But publicity, sometimes it feels like it only got me the chance to say that I have publicity, right? Which can get me more publicity, but you never know. You never know where one, just the one right person is going to see it. There’s currently potentially a documentary on the church that I’m involved with, because the producer was looking for something and stumbled on my book. So you never know who you’re going to reach and when. 

What do you think has worked best for you for expanding the reach of this book?

Becky: So I love that you said that, Lisa, that you never know who you’re going to reach when. So could you talk a bit more about what you think has worked best for you and expanding the reach of this book.

Lisa: I honestly say the good thing about believing I have an important message is it means I asked just about anybody and everybody, if they know somewhere I can speak, somewhere I can do a reading, somewhere I can promote. So I just keep asking. I do think it’s those, that it just keeps going and beginning more and beginning more and beginning more. 

There’s the potential documentary. There’s something else maybe going to happen that’s really cool. And if it does, we’ll probably help it push really high. But it’s just asking this person and asking this person. And I guess guest blog posts in places, and I speak just about anywhere, I just keep going. I do as many podcasts as possible, whenever someone reaches out if it makes sense, I’ll do it. Because on one hand, it will help it take off, and on the other hand, if I reach that one person who’s in pain, then that’s why I’m really doing it, right? It’s the emails and the Twitter direct messages and the Instagram messages. It’s those things I get that blow my mind from strangers that keep me just going. I wish I had a plan other than try this, try that, and try this and try that, and try and try and try and try, and keep asking people who they know who’d want to help me spread the message.

Becky: I think you hit on something really important, Lisa. You have to keep going.

Lisa: It’s not even a marathon. It’s like a triathlon and I can’t swim. So it’s a hard triathlon, right? It’s constantly reaching my leadership consulting business, right? And the book, there’s always at least a couple hundred things, I should be doing more, right? There’s always more, there’s always another. So it’s this combination of, what do I want to do today? What am I going to do this week? What am I going to do? And then also, when am I going to stop? When am I going to practice what I preach? When am I going to take care of myself? Because I could work nonstop and never get it all done. But each week there’s one more email I send or person I ask or place I can speak. I literally ran into a neighbor and was like, “Oh, I didn’t know your husband was the pastor of the church. What do you want me to talk to anybody about extreme religions?” Right? Because I’m able to say it’s not about me. Yes, I’d love to sell millions of books. Yes, I want to be in the New York Times bestseller, but one because it’s fun, but mostly because I want people to hear the message. So it allows me to just keep asking and just keep going and take some time off and then pick it up and do a couple more things.

What is your attitude towards fame and fortune?

Becky: Love it. So you alluded a bit to it, but I’m wondering if you would tell me what your attitude toward fame and fortune is?

Lisa: My attitude towards fame and fortune. If I’m lucky enough to get it, I’ll probably wonder why I wanted it. Right? If I was really famous, right? Because I know that it does a whole warpy thing to one’s life. If the documentary and a couple other things actually happen, it could be really fun. And I’m just determined to have fun with it. And again, I go back to the message I want to share is so important to me, that fame and fortune is a way to share that message. So I know that the world doesn’t need me to share it, but I can be one more person who can share it, right? And if I can get famous enough that my story is big enough that other people can be in their situation and know that they have hope, then it’s all worth it. If something interesting happens, I might make the money I’ve spent on the book, I may never make the money back I spent on the book, but I did it. I did it for a reason. I did it for all of those who were called second gens or third or fourth, like those of us born and raised in extremist situations. I did it for all of them. I did it for anyone who’s stuck in an extremist situation. I did it for anyone who has this dysfunction in their family and in their childhood and in their current family and is in pain and suffering. That’s why I did it. So I’m determined to have fun with whatever happens. But I’m also out here to hopefully have one more person reach out to me and say thank you, you really gave me hope.

What role has generosity played in your journey?

Becky: So Lisa, tell me what role generosity has played on your journey.

Lisa: Well, I probably am very generous with the book itself. Actually, I’m keynoting for a not for profit, annual luncheon Women’s Resource Center here in Wayne in April. And I am obviously donating books to give away in the hopes that it makes more people sign up. If I meet someone in an extremist situation, or born and raised in an extremist situation, I will always give them the book for free, give them an electronic book or send them a copy of the book. So I tried to be generous. I try to be generous with my time. I try to be generous with my story. I will answer almost any question, as long as it’s not about the immediate family right now, I’ll answer any question. I will just bear any part of the weirdness inside me in order to help people, so I’m hoping I’m generous. And I clearly have gotten a lot of generosity. I have people introduce me to people. I have people open their homes to have me come and speak to their friends. I’ve had people sponsor things for events for me. I will do any book club. I will do anything and I’ve had people open themselves and invite their friends to come and hear it. So generosity has been given to me and I try to be generous as I keep going. 

What is a book Fairy?

Becky: I’m trying to remember back before COVID stopped most air travel. I remember that you had this approach of leaving books in airports. Talk about that.

Lisa: It’s called book fairies. I believe it originated in Scotland. It’s still going, they’re doing it in a different way. But it’s a worldwide initiative where authors will leave their books and other books, called book fairies. And it’s like, leave a book, enjoy the book, pass it on. And it’s just the idea to spread the message of your book and other books and get people reading again. The book fairies, it’s great, and they are still going in some ways. Clearly, it’s shut down a lot since COVID, and hopefully it will pick back up a lot when things open up again. But yeah, it was fun. I had friends who I gave eight of my books, and I’m like, “leave them every time you’re anywhere”, and then they would leave them and then post it. And I did it so many times. The first time the person reached out to me, and then they left it that next day, and that person reached out to me. And most of the other times I didn’t hear from anybody, but you never know. You never know who’s gonna read it. You never know who’s going to read it, who’s going to pick it up or pass it on or whatever. So yeah, it’s just another way to spread the love.

Is there anything you’ve learned about book marketing you wish I had asked you about?

Becky: So Lisa, is there anything else that you’ve learned about book marketing that you wish I had asked you about?

Lisa: It feels daunting, right? You’re probably going to say there are specific things one should do and, and there are, but I always say it feels like there’s always more that I could be doing. And there must be a secret sauce that I haven’t figured out yet. 

But I don’t know that that’s actually true. And so for me, it’s just one day at a time. One more thing. One more thing. Do I need to sign up for this class? It tells me exactly how to do it. Maybe, maybe not. There’s always more. That’s not supposed to be the answer I’m supposed to give. But it’s this combination of, what do I want to do today? Why am I doing this? When do I need to take a break? And what’s one more thing I can do? I was told I’d be lucky if I sold 200 books. I’ve sold a lot more than 200 books. They say nonfiction books sell about 200 on average from an unknown author. So that is what it is. Always be willing to look one more place, talk to one more person, ask for one more idea, listen to Becky, and have her tell you what you should do, and then not beat yourself up too hard if it doesn’t make you the biggest best seller, because who knows. I’ve had to really think about why I’m doing this and manage my own expectations for it so that I am happy with how it’s going rather than upset with how it’s going. 

Action Steps

Becky: That helps. So at the end of every episode of the Book Marketing Action Podcast, we always like to leave our listeners with one or two action steps that they can take and implement this week. As you said, Lisa, this idea of, “what am I going to do today” that you have to ask yourself. And so I’m wondering if together we can co-create a couple of action steps based on our conversation, some things that people could do today. 

Tell your neighbors about your book.  I’m going to pull one out, Lisa, you talked about talking to your neighbors about your book. And I wonder if there are any authors listening today who live in a situation where they haven’t told their neighbors that they wrote a book. I’m gonna challenge you today, talk to someone who lives where you live, and if you haven’t ever told them about your book, tell them.

Lisa: I think that’s a great one. I like to say, mine’s a memoir, right, and so in my neighborhood, I would say, maybe half the women and a quarter of the men had read the book. So I go to a party, and I’ll be like, please don’t answer this, “Hey, when did you lose your virginity? Okay, so we’re even.” Everybody kind of knows these things. So probably your book isn’t quite as revealing as mine. So yeah, talk to your neighbor is a dang good idea because you never know who has a cousin who runs a bookstore, who has a cousin who is a professor, you don’t know, until you put it out there. 

And so I would add to that, two points: 

Sharing your message isn’t self-promotion. One is to find a reason to do it so you don’t feel like you’re self-promoting. Because self promotion doesn’t work, right? Self promotion doesn’t work for me. I can’t, as much as it feels, people may think I self-promote, it doesn’t work for me just to be promoting myself, right? I have a message I’m trying to share. Start sharing your message. You can hone in on it as you go. And then when you know that message, there are ways to get on lists for podcasts. People have podcasts, they reach out to you, or to reach out to other podcast owners. Find the next thing you want to do and find the way to get the list to find those people and just start spreading your message and seeing where it goes and honing your message as you go along. ResourcesClick here for Lisa Kohn’s author website. To learn more about Lisa Kohn’s consulting company, click here. Connect with Lisa Kohn on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.Watch Lisa’s interview on the Megyn Kelly Show, here. 

If you found value in today’s episode, we hope you’ll take a moment to share it with someone else who might benefit from it. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to cover, please email Becky Robinson here.

Click here for our free resources. 

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review. 

Click here to tweet about this episode!

The post Lisa Kohn’s Author Journey appeared first on Weaving Influence.

Episode 54: Best Practices to Secure Media Wins Copy

Photo by Pavlo Syvak  / 123rf.com

Click here to listen on your device and subscribe! 

Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. In this episode, we are joined by Mark Fortier—founder and president of Fortier Public Relations and 2019 Porchlight Jack Covert Award for Contribution to the Business Book Industry​.

About Mark Fortier

Becky: I’ve heard about Mark for a really long time because he’s among the top names in the New York publicity world as it relates to business books, and only had the chance to meet him for the first time this year. I’m really glad to have you on the show today, Mark, and as we dive into our conversation today, I hope you’ll take a moment to tell our listeners about yourself and about your work in the world.

Mark: Well, I often get asked what I do for a living, and to insiders in publishing, they’re often like, “Wow, you work with all my heroes.” And when I talk to people outside of publishing, they often need a long explanation of what I do. So to try to make it as simple as possible. You can say I am a book publicist, and particularly often with business books. I run a PR agency called Fortier Public Relations for 25 people based in Manhattan, and we try to have a multi-channel approach to promoting books. 

Most people, when they think of a PR agency, they think of media placements, and that’s definitely the core of what we do and one of our specialties, but we also try to look at ourselves as partners in success for a book in all possible ways. These days, there are lots of channels that can help a book succeed. So there are podcasts, full-time podcast bookers, there are events, we have an events manager who sets up events. We help coach people on their social media strategy, tapping their network, which is incredibly important for authors, and being their coach in all ways. So basically, you can think of ourselves as, if you want your book to succeed, we’re there as your guide and your coach, and the ones who try to make a book happen and make a big splash in the media, social media, and anywhere else that people look for books.

Becky: That’s helpful. So Mark, you mentioned that people who are aware of business books are saying that you serve their heroes. I’m going to give you a chance to shout out some of the big name authors you’ve had the chance to support, because I know you’ve supported multiple New York Times bestsellers, Wall Street Journal bestsellers, so go ahead and brag for a minute about your client list.

Mark: Okay, sure. Let’s see, so we’ve worked on over 135 bestsellers. We’ve done 18 number one bestsellers on, there’s a ranking of the Thinkers50 list of the top thought leaders in the world, and we work with 33 out of the 50. Some of them include Tim Ferriss and Seth Godin. We worked with several government officials from Robert Rubin, the former treasury secretary, and we’ve got a book coming out with Henry Kissinger later this fall. So a wide range of authors, from some of the most commercial best selling authors to business school professors. We’ve worked with 22 Fortune 500 CEOs. This next month, we’ve got the CEO of Best Buy coming up as part of our next CEO books, and we worked with the CEOs of Starbuck, Citigroup, and Southwest Airlines. Let’s see, Dunkin Donuts and all kinds of things. So it’s funny how in this niche of business books, there’s actually an incredible amount of breadth, and the types of authors and the types of topics they get into. We like to feel like we’re connectors of ideas that have impact in the business world. So to me, it’s the most exciting part of business to be in.

What are media outlets looking for when they visit an author’s website?

Becky: Very cool. And we’ll definitely include a link to your website in the show notes so people can take a look at it to see more. So we’ve been focusing this month, Mark, on author websites, and especially as it relates to this world of media relations. I’m wondering, from your point of view, what media outlets are looking for when they land on or visit an author’s website?

Mark: Yeah, great question. So they’re certainly looking for credibility and credentials. I see a lot of different styles for author bios, and it could be that different things appeal to consumers as opposed to media. But I find that sometimes authors have a very anecdotal bio, that ‘here’s what I’m about and I’m into this and I’m into that,’ and a journalist wants to just zoom in and see, what’s the credential. If I’m quoting them in a piece, what do I call them? A lot of times, that can be fuzzy. So if someone’s CEO of a company, that’s super clear. If they’re a business school professor at Harvard Business School, that’s super clear. If they’re a writer, and they have a podcast, and maybe they’re a leadership coach, and they do some consulting, and there’s five things in their bio, those are all great things to have in the bio, but the journalist is probably only going to pick one. So it’s really important to have that sequence of things in your bio and leading with, if I could only choose one name for what I am and what I do, what would that be? And preferably in very simple, concrete terms. There’s often a press page or media page on a website and that can often have two different things. 

It’s great to show your most impressive media you might have been in already, even if that’s just a little quote, in whether it’s The New York Times or Fast Company, or whatever it might be. That’s definitely worth bragging about. Sometimes you’ll see the brand. So you’ll see a logo for Fast Company, click here, just to read the full story. And the brands are almost more important than the stories. People don’t spend a lot of time on websites. So you want to have it tailored to quick attention spans. So they’re going to be more impressed to open up a page and see, “Wow, Fast Company, there’s NBC, there’s all these media outlets.” They’re probably not going to click on it to read the whole story, so it’s the brands that really matter. And then it’s helpful to have tools for the media. So one thing I love is an office of downloadable photos. There is always a scramble of a journalist wanting to do a story on an author and either they’ve set up the interview, or maybe they just want to write it even without talking to the interviewee and they need to run the photo with the story and their own deadline. There’s just always a scrambled back and forth of where to find this photo. Who has the photo? If you have it all there, they’re easy to download themselves. And it’s often great to have a selection of photos, like we’ve all seen the standard headshot for authors, which is definitely most important to have and have it in color, standard headshot, but some of them like to have alternatives. So a full length body shot, sometimes a formal one, sometimes an informal one, maybe a horizontal one gives that graphic designer a few options to work with. 

So I’d say the most important things are the bio, downloadable photos, and brag about any media you’ve gotten. And I would think about the sequencing too. Sometimes people put the sequence of their most recent coverage in the media. I think it’s better to lead with the most impressive. So if you recently did some blog or journal, but you did New York Times 10 years ago, still put New York Times first.

 How important is a press kit for an author?

Becky: That’s super helpful. So what about the idea of a press kit? How important is a press kit for an author? And what should that press kit include?

Mark: Yeah, so that’s definitely something that’s changed a lot. So press kits are still done. They still should be done. The world has gotten more digital, and during the pandemic even more digital. So typically, a press kit is printed and mailed with the physical book to the journalists that you’re trying to get to cover the book. During the pandemic, in particular, we’re mostly emailing PDFs and electronic galleys to the media. So they’re getting an attachment of a press kit, and they’re probably less likely to look at it. So press kits are still good to do and we can go over what should be in it, but I almost think that the pitch is the most important element of all. And sometimes the press release or the press kit gets over emphasized. 

The main thing you’re trying to do is fight for the attention span of the media that you’re sending to. And that’s probably going to be an email that’s in their box, along with 500 other people pitching their books and their topic to that same person. So your goal is to interest. So think less about, “Oh, I’m trying to announce my book with this formal announcement. To write a book report about it.” But nope you have one goal. Your one goal is to interest this recipient ,this journalist, in as fast a way as possible and they would way prefer less is more. 

So grab their attention with a fantastic headline, think of what’s the one sentence in the body of your pitch that’s going to just completely boil down what this book is about, why it’s significant, and why it’s newsworthy, new, or different? So that’s really your most important goal. I would spend the most time on that, even though it’s the shortest. If you can also do a press kit, the press release tends to be more of a summary about the book and the full contents. And then we always do a full page bio, as well as a short bio, that gives journalists a choice of “Okay, when in a flash, I can see what this person’s credentials are, who they are, and if I’m writing a profile, here’s a lot more color, their full story that I can pull things out from.” 

Then last but not least, is what we call the author Q&A. So for all of our book press kits, we will think hard about, if we were a journalist, what’s the ideal story and interview that we would do with the author? And we think very hard about what’s the first question? What should be the last question? Isn’t just a jumble of questions that pops into our head, but we have to think like a journalist. Okay, that reader, what’s gonna pull them in? They have no context about this book or who this person is, so how are we going to get that across clearly, and hold their interest, and then dig deep into the topic enough, and then pull out of it a conclusion that ties it all together? And the Q&A is a great exercise for lots of reasons. It’s a wonderful way to prepare for your media training. A lot of authors, they just wrote the book, they’re clearly a master at it. And they’re just wanting interviews and haven’t really thought about, “Oh, well, how do I sum this up into my key points? And what would my ideal interview be?” If you know what your most ideal interview is going to be like, then you actually do have a lot of control over where the journalist is going to go and the substance of your interview. 

What are the types of qualities you look for in an author who will have the opportunity to land the most desirable media wins?

Becky: Thanks, Mark. Well, I’d like to tap into your deep expertise of landing media wins. I know your team does a lot of pitching to major media outlets. So what are the types of qualities that you look for in an author or a client who will have the opportunity to land the most desirable media you talked about? Impressive media brands like The New York Times or Fast Company or The Today Show? So what does it take for an author to be able to win media at that level?

Mark: Yeah, so we work with a lot of famous authors and we also work with a lot of first time authors who’ve really not much profile yet, but they have a fantastic topic that we really believe in, and that has potential. So I think sometimes authors are intimidated and think, “Oh, I’m not famous yet. I’m not a big name, so no one’s gonna pay any attention.” They very well can if you’ve got a great topic. If you deliver it well. If you give great sound bites. 

What is the most surprising or exciting media win you’ve landed?

Becky: So this might be a weird question, but as I’m listening to you, I’m wondering if you have any stories of the most surprising media wins you’ve landed, or the most exciting ones that you’d be willing to share with our listeners?

Mark: Oh, let’s see. Well, I guess I’ve told this story for so long that it just sticks to the brain as always a good, instructive story. 

So the first book I worked on when I founded the firm was Made to Stick: Why Some Ideas Survive and Others Die by Chip and Dan Heath. And I got The Today Show. I got CNBC. With the CNBC stories, it is very instructive, so I sent the book to my contact there. We had this great long conversation. She said, “Oh my god, this is the best book I’ve read in ages. I love it.” So I’m like, “Great. When can we book it?” She said, “Of course not, Mark. You know better than that. We’re a news network. So we can’t put an author on to just talk about their book and the topic. We need a news angle.” So a week or two went by, and it was coming out around January/February and so the Superbowl was coming up. So I pitched her, well, how about you have the authors on to talk about the stickiest Superbowl ads? And boom, the producer loved it! It gave me the angle that she needed and she put the authors on and we illustrated the whole segment. 

It shows how important getting an angle is for the media. There’s a big difference between being topical and having a hard news angle. So, for example, right now we are talking in the hopefully close-to-end of the pandemic, so right now things like the hybrid workforce is a topical angle. It’s something that people are talking about, and you can get certain types of media with that. But there are other angles that are day-of news. So a week or two ago, there was a news story that Goldman Sachs was, because of burnout, giving Saturdays off to their employees, and that was a new story that hit that day of the announcement and got all this kind of buzz all over the place. So, of course, we jumped on that with our workplace authors as a hard news day-of news peg. And there’s some media, particularly the broadcast news networks like CBC, Fox Business, or Bloomberg, where they really need that day-of news peg.

Becky: So Mark, were you able to land any media connected to that story that you just referenced?

Mark: We’ve had a number. So yeah, we have an author writing on the book, while being at work. So we got some placements for that. We have a book coming up called Digital Body Language, which we have been playing off of the hybrid workforce angle, which as I said, that can open up some types of media, like print. We just got today, an Entrepreneur Magazine story on that, tied to the hybrid workforce. So yeah, we have several processes that we’re always running at the same time. So we’re pitching the book, and looking out for books. We’re watching the news every morning and trying to look at the news through the lens of our books messages and look for angles. So we’re always trying multiple approaches at the same time. 

And if there is a news angle, our process usually is, you might spot it first, email it to our author. We ask them, “what’s your take on this news angle?” And then have some good back and forth between us. Because it’s good to tell CNBC, “Yes, I’ve got an author who can address what just happened today in the news.” It’s better if you can say, “I have an author who can address what happened on the news today, and here is her take on that story. Her opinion is x.” And then they might think, “Ooh, that’s a very surprising opinion, I wouldn’t have expected,” or “We’re having another person on who has the opposite point of view, wouldn’t that make a fantastic segment.” So really getting the author’s take on a news story is super important, and then once we have that we might work with them to draft an op ed, because you have to pounce on those fast and to pitch interviews at the same time.

Becky: Thank you so much for sharing your amazing insights with us today, Mark. I could ask you questions all afternoon. 

Action Steps

Becky: We want to make sure that we do two things as we wrap up this episode, one is we want to let folks know how to find out more about you and your work. And then we also want to leave them with a couple of action steps. So ideas that they can implement today in growing the reach of their books. 

Mark: Yeah, there’s a lot that authors can do on their own to promote new books. 

Write bylined articles or op eds. You can either do that immediately on LinkedIn or Medium. One trick is to Google the name of the outlet you want, and then “contributor guidelines,” and usually you put that combo together and it comes up with some directions of “we accept authors to write op eds, and we want 600 words, we love bullets,or we hate bullets,” and all the guidelines you’d ever need. Then you can pitch them directly. Watch the news. I also recommend as we were talking about the news, you can absolutely do that tracking the news yourself. Very often media will like peer-to-peer contact with an author, either on Twitter or LinkedIn, or just tracking down their email address. Some of those are public information that you can look up and find yourself and they’ll appreciate it if you’re an expert, and especially if, let’s say, you’re complimenting them on an article that they wrote and saying I actually did some research on that, and here’s a finding that you might find of interest with a different angle if you cover this angle in a different way, next week. Subscribe to a free service. There are also services that you can subscribe to for free. A great one is HARO. Another one is Qwoted and it’s basically a message board where hundreds of journalists every day will say, “I’m writing a story on this topic, I’m looking for an expert to interview or quote.” They might need a particular type of credential and you can just directly apply and just really follow the instructions carefully. Write the answers in the email and don’t stray from the guidelines. Do what they asked for and nothing more. Check out a podcast service. There are also podcast services now, which might land smaller podcasts. But there are a lot of podcasts that are on some of these subscription services for a very inexpensive fee. You can subscribe, and similar to HARO, you can do a posting on here’s my topic, I’m an expert on this, and then you’ll get some podcast bookings out of it. So there’s lots of things that you can do on your own.ResourcesLearn more about Mark Fortier and the work he does in the world, here. Connect with Mark on Twitter and LinkedIn. Connect with Fortier Public Relations on LinkedIn. 

If you found value in today’s episode, we hope you’ll take a moment to share it with someone else who might benefit from it. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to cover, please email Becky Robinson here.

Click here for our free resources. 

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review. 

Click here to tweet about this episode!

The post Episode 54: Best Practices to Secure Media Wins Copy appeared first on Weaving Influence.

Episode 54: Best Practices to Secure Media Wins

Photo by Pavlo Syvak  / 123rf.com

Click here to listen on your device and subscribe! 

Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. In this episode, we are joined by Mark Fortier—founder and president of Fortier Public Relations and 2019 Porchlight Jack Covert Award for Contribution to the Business Book Industry​.

About Mark Fortier

Becky: I’ve heard about Mark for a really long time because he’s among the top names in the New York publicity world as it relates to business books, and only had the chance to meet him for the first time this year. I’m really glad to have you on the show today, Mark, and as we dive into our conversation today, I hope you’ll take a moment to tell our listeners about yourself and about your work in the world.

Mark: Well, I often get asked what I do for a living, and to insiders in publishing, they’re often like, “Wow, you work with all my heroes.” And when I talk to people outside of publishing, they often need a long explanation of what I do. So to try to make it as simple as possible. You can say I am a book publicist, and particularly often with business books. I run a PR agency called Fortier Public Relations for 25 people based in Manhattan, and we try to have a multi-channel approach to promoting books. 

Most people, when they think of a PR agency, they think of media placements, and that’s definitely the core of what we do and one of our specialties, but we also try to look at ourselves as partners in success for a book in all possible ways. These days, there are lots of channels that can help a book succeed. So there are podcasts, full-time podcast bookers, there are events, we have an events manager who sets up events. We help coach people on their social media strategy, tapping their network, which is incredibly important for authors, and being their coach in all ways. So basically, you can think of ourselves as, if you want your book to succeed, we’re there as your guide and your coach, and the ones who try to make a book happen and make a big splash in the media, social media, and anywhere else that people look for books.

Becky: That’s helpful. So Mark, you mentioned that people who are aware of business books are saying that you serve their heroes. I’m going to give you a chance to shout out some of the big name authors you’ve had the chance to support, because I know you’ve supported multiple New York Times bestsellers, Wall Street Journal bestsellers, so go ahead and brag for a minute about your client list.

Mark: Okay, sure. Let’s see, so we’ve worked on over 135 bestsellers. We’ve done 18 number one bestsellers on, there’s a ranking of the Thinkers50 list of the top thought leaders in the world, and we work with 33 out of the 50. Some of them include Tim Ferriss and Seth Godin. We worked with several government officials from Robert Rubin, the former treasury secretary, and we’ve got a book coming out with Henry Kissinger later this fall. So a wide range of authors, from some of the most commercial best selling authors to business school professors. We’ve worked with 22 Fortune 500 CEOs. This next month, we’ve got the CEO of Best Buy coming up as part of our next CEO books, and we worked with the CEOs of Starbuck, Citigroup, and Southwest Airlines. Let’s see, Dunkin Donuts and all kinds of things. So it’s funny how in this niche of business books, there’s actually an incredible amount of breadth, and the types of authors and the types of topics they get into. We like to feel like we’re connectors of ideas that have impact in the business world. So to me, it’s the most exciting part of business to be in.

What are media outlets looking for when they visit an author’s website?

Becky: Very cool. And we’ll definitely include a link to your website in the show notes so people can take a look at it to see more. So we’ve been focusing this month, Mark, on author websites, and especially as it relates to this world of media relations. I’m wondering, from your point of view, what media outlets are looking for when they land on or visit an author’s website?

Mark: Yeah, great question. So they’re certainly looking for credibility and credentials. I see a lot of different styles for author bios, and it could be that different things appeal to consumers as opposed to media. But I find that sometimes authors have a very anecdotal bio, that ‘here’s what I’m about and I’m into this and I’m into that,’ and a journalist wants to just zoom in and see, what’s the credential. If I’m quoting them in a piece, what do I call them? A lot of times, that can be fuzzy. So if someone’s CEO of a company, that’s super clear. If they’re a business school professor at Harvard Business School, that’s super clear. If they’re a writer, and they have a podcast, and maybe they’re a leadership coach, and they do some consulting, and there’s five things in their bio, those are all great things to have in the bio, but the journalist is probably only going to pick one. So it’s really important to have that sequence of things in your bio and leading with, if I could only choose one name for what I am and what I do, what would that be? And preferably in very simple, concrete terms. There’s often a press page or media page on a website and that can often have two different things. 

It’s great to show your most impressive media you might have been in already, even if that’s just a little quote, in whether it’s The New York Times or Fast Company, or whatever it might be. That’s definitely worth bragging about. Sometimes you’ll see the brand. So you’ll see a logo for Fast Company, click here, just to read the full story. And the brands are almost more important than the stories. People don’t spend a lot of time on websites. So you want to have it tailored to quick attention spans. So they’re going to be more impressed to open up a page and see, “Wow, Fast Company, there’s NBC, there’s all these media outlets.” They’re probably not going to click on it to read the whole story, so it’s the brands that really matter. And then it’s helpful to have tools for the media. So one thing I love is an office of downloadable photos. There is always a scramble of a journalist wanting to do a story on an author and either they’ve set up the interview, or maybe they just want to write it even without talking to the interviewee and they need to run the photo with the story and their own deadline. There’s just always a scrambled back and forth of where to find this photo. Who has the photo? If you have it all there, they’re easy to download themselves. And it’s often great to have a selection of photos, like we’ve all seen the standard headshot for authors, which is definitely most important to have and have it in color, standard headshot, but some of them like to have alternatives. So a full length body shot, sometimes a formal one, sometimes an informal one, maybe a horizontal one gives that graphic designer a few options to work with. 

So I’d say the most important things are the bio, downloadable photos, and brag about any media you’ve gotten. And I would think about the sequencing too. Sometimes people put the sequence of their most recent coverage in the media. I think it’s better to lead with the most impressive. So if you recently did some blog or journal, but you did New York Times 10 years ago, still put New York Times first.

 How important is a press kit for an author?

Becky: That’s super helpful. So what about the idea of a press kit? How important is a press kit for an author? And what should that press kit include?

Mark: Yeah, so that’s definitely something that’s changed a lot. So press kits are still done. They still should be done. The world has gotten more digital, and during the pandemic even more digital. So typically, a press kit is printed and mailed with the physical book to the journalists that you’re trying to get to cover the book. During the pandemic, in particular, we’re mostly emailing PDFs and electronic galleys to the media. So they’re getting an attachment of a press kit, and they’re probably less likely to look at it. So press kits are still good to do and we can go over what should be in it, but I almost think that the pitch is the most important element of all. And sometimes the press release or the press kit gets over emphasized. 

The main thing you’re trying to do is fight for the attention span of the media that you’re sending to. And that’s probably going to be an email that’s in their box, along with 500 other people pitching their books and their topic to that same person. So your goal is to interest. So think less about, “Oh, I’m trying to announce my book with this formal announcement. To write a book report about it.” But nope you have one goal. Your one goal is to interest this recipient ,this journalist, in as fast a way as possible and they would way prefer less is more. 

So grab their attention with a fantastic headline, think of what’s the one sentence in the body of your pitch that’s going to just completely boil down what this book is about, why it’s significant, and why it’s newsworthy, new, or different? So that’s really your most important goal. I would spend the most time on that, even though it’s the shortest. If you can also do a press kit, the press release tends to be more of a summary about the book and the full contents. And then we always do a full page bio, as well as a short bio, that gives journalists a choice of “Okay, when in a flash, I can see what this person’s credentials are, who they are, and if I’m writing a profile, here’s a lot more color, their full story that I can pull things out from.” 

Then last but not least, is what we call the author Q&A. So for all of our book press kits, we will think hard about, if we were a journalist, what’s the ideal story and interview that we would do with the author? And we think very hard about what’s the first question? What should be the last question? Isn’t just a jumble of questions that pops into our head, but we have to think like a journalist. Okay, that reader, what’s gonna pull them in? They have no context about this book or who this person is, so how are we going to get that across clearly, and hold their interest, and then dig deep into the topic enough, and then pull out of it a conclusion that ties it all together? And the Q&A is a great exercise for lots of reasons. It’s a wonderful way to prepare for your media training. A lot of authors, they just wrote the book, they’re clearly a master at it. And they’re just wanting interviews and haven’t really thought about, “Oh, well, how do I sum this up into my key points? And what would my ideal interview be?” If you know what your most ideal interview is going to be like, then you actually do have a lot of control over where the journalist is going to go and the substance of your interview. 

What are the types of qualities you look for in an author who will have the opportunity to land the most desirable media wins?

Becky: Thanks, Mark. Well, I’d like to tap into your deep expertise of landing media wins. I know your team does a lot of pitching to major media outlets. So what are the types of qualities that you look for in an author or a client who will have the opportunity to land the most desirable media you talked about? Impressive media brands like The New York Times or Fast Company or The Today Show? So what does it take for an author to be able to win media at that level?

Mark: Yeah, so we work with a lot of famous authors and we also work with a lot of first time authors who’ve really not much profile yet, but they have a fantastic topic that we really believe in, and that has potential. So I think sometimes authors are intimidated and think, “Oh, I’m not famous yet. I’m not a big name, so no one’s gonna pay any attention.” They very well can if you’ve got a great topic. If you deliver it well. If you give great sound bites. 

Becky: How do people land the big media if they’re just starting out? Do you coach people that they have to get lower level media first and then work up to the bigger media?

Mark: Let’s see, I don’t necessarily think that is true. And I think sometimes the media actually likes you to be fresh and undiscovered. And so if they look you up, and they see that, “Oh, this person has been covered before, but it’s all lots of little stuff,” I think that could be a turnoff. I think if you’ve got some good credentials and a great idea, they’d actually rather you be fresh. So there are different opinions about that. 

A lot of people do what they call, author profile building. I do think it is good to play some op eds, to be searchable and have things come up, but I would have brand control. So, if you’re in lots of little stuff then the big guys might think you’re in the little guy lane and not the big guy lane. Publishers do matter to the media. So authors who self publish or with smaller publishers, absolutely can have very successful books, and they can have very successful marketing. The media tends to shy away, especially from the self published books. They do tend to rely on publishers as gatekeepers. There are already far more choices than they could possibly choose from amongst the top publishers, so it’s rare for them to be on that. There’s absolutely exceptions to that and I don’t want to dissuade anyone from trying to get media, but it is harder. When you’re making those choices, I would think about how important is media to you? Would you be disappointed if you maybe had a book that sold well, but didn’t get media? And really all the goals are up to you. They’re all subjective goals. There’s no right answer about what makes a book successful. To some people, it’s the sales, that’s the barometer of success. To some people, they couldn’t care less how many books they sell, and it’s more about, “Am I getting recognized by the top influencers and top media,” and there’s other goals and choices too. It’s really up to you to make that choice. 

What is the most surprising or exciting media win you’ve landed?

Becky: So this might be a weird question, but as I’m listening to you, I’m wondering if you have any stories of the most surprising media wins you’ve landed, or the most exciting ones that you’d be willing to share with our listeners?

Mark: Oh, let’s see. Well, I guess I’ve told this story for so long that it just sticks to the brain as always a good, instructive story. 

So the first book I worked on when I founded the firm was Made to Stick: Why Some Ideas Survive and Others Die by Chip and Dan Heath. And I got The Today Show. I got CNBC. With the CNBC stories, it is very instructive, so I sent the book to my contact there. We had this great long conversation. She said, “Oh my god, this is the best book I’ve read in ages. I love it.” So I’m like, “Great. When can we book it?” She said, “Of course not, Mark. You know better than that. We’re a news network. So we can’t put an author on to just talk about their book and the topic. We need a news angle.” So a week or two went by, and it was coming out around January/February and so the Superbowl was coming up. So I pitched her, well, how about you have the authors on to talk about the stickiest Superbowl ads? And boom, the producer loved it! It gave me the angle that she needed and she put the authors on and we illustrated the whole segment. 

It shows how important getting an angle is for the media. There’s a big difference between being topical and having a hard news angle. So, for example, right now we are talking in the hopefully close-to-end of the pandemic, so right now things like the hybrid workforce is a topical angle. It’s something that people are talking about, and you can get certain types of media with that. But there are other angles that are day-of news. So a week or two ago, there was a news story that Goldman Sachs was, because of burnout, giving Saturdays off to their employees, and that was a new story that hit that day of the announcement and got all this kind of buzz all over the place. So, of course, we jumped on that with our workplace authors as a hard news day-of news peg. And there’s some media, particularly the broadcast news networks like CBC, Fox Business, or Bloomberg, where they really need that day-of news peg.

Becky: So Mark, were you able to land any media connected to that story that you just referenced?

Mark: We’ve had a number. So yeah, we have an author writing on the book, while being at work. So we got some placements for that. We have a book coming up called Digital Body Language, which we have been playing off of the hybrid workforce angle, which as I said, that can open up some types of media, like print. We just got today, an Entrepreneur Magazine story on that, tied to the hybrid workforce. So yeah, we have several processes that we’re always running at the same time. So we’re pitching the book, and looking out for books. We’re watching the news every morning and trying to look at the news through the lens of our books messages and look for angles. So we’re always trying multiple approaches at the same time. 

And if there is a news angle, our process usually is, you might spot it first, email it to our author. We ask them, “what’s your take on this news angle?” And then have some good back and forth between us. Because it’s good to tell CNBC, “Yes, I’ve got an author who can address what just happened today in the news.” It’s better if you can say, “I have an author who can address what happened on the news today, and here is her take on that story. Her opinion is x.” And then they might think, “Ooh, that’s a very surprising opinion, I wouldn’t have expected,” or “We’re having another person on who has the opposite point of view, wouldn’t that make a fantastic segment.” So really getting the author’s take on a news story is super important, and then once we have that we might work with them to draft an op ed, because you have to pounce on those fast and to pitch interviews at the same time.

Becky: Thank you so much for sharing your amazing insights with us today, Mark. I could ask you questions all afternoon. 

Action Steps

Becky: We want to make sure that we do two things as we wrap up this episode, one is we want to let folks know how to find out more about you and your work. And then we also want to leave them with a couple of action steps. So ideas that they can implement today in growing the reach of their books. 

Mark: Yeah, there’s a lot that authors can do on their own to promote new books. 

Write bylined articles or op eds. You can either do that immediately on LinkedIn or Medium. One trick is to Google the name of the outlet you want, and then “contributor guidelines,” and usually you put that combo together and it comes up with some directions of “we accept authors to write op eds, and we want 600 words, we love bullets,or we hate bullets,” and all the guidelines you’d ever need. Then you can pitch them directly. Watch the news. I also recommend as we were talking about the news, you can absolutely do that tracking the news yourself. Very often media will like peer-to-peer contact with an author, either on Twitter or LinkedIn, or just tracking down their email address. Some of those are public information that you can look up and find yourself and they’ll appreciate it if you’re an expert, and especially if, let’s say, you’re complimenting them on an article that they wrote and saying I actually did some research on that, and here’s a finding that you might find of interest with a different angle if you cover this angle in a different way, next week. Subscribe to a free service. There are also services that you can subscribe to for free. A great one is HARO. Another one is Qwoted and it’s basically a message board where hundreds of journalists every day will say, “I’m writing a story on this topic, I’m looking for an expert to interview or quote.” They might need a particular type of credential and you can just directly apply and just really follow the instructions carefully. Write the answers in the email and don’t stray from the guidelines. Do what they asked for and nothing more. Check out a podcast service. There are also podcast services now, which might land smaller podcasts. But there are a lot of podcasts that are on some of these subscription services for a very inexpensive fee. You can subscribe, and similar to HARO, you can do a posting on here’s my topic, I’m an expert on this, and then you’ll get some podcast bookings out of it. So there’s lots of things that you can do on your own.ResourcesLearn more about Mark Fortier and the work he does in the world, here. Connect with Mark on Twitter and LinkedIn. Connect with Fortier Public Relations on LinkedIn. 

If you found value in today’s episode, we hope you’ll take a moment to share it with someone else who might benefit from it. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to cover, please email Becky Robinson here.

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The post Episode 54: Best Practices to Secure Media Wins appeared first on Weaving Influence.

Episode 53: Everything You Need to Know Before Investing in an Audiobook

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Welcome to Season 2 of The Book Marketing Action Podcast with Becky Robinson, where we give you information that you can immediately implement to increase your influence and market your books more successfully. In this episode, we are joined by Tina Dietz—CEO and co-founder of Twin Flames Studios, award-winning and internationally acclaimed speaker, audiobook publisher, podcast producer, and influence marketing expert.

About Tina Dietz

Becky: I am so thrilled today to be interviewing Tina Dietz. Tina is a friend I made, actually, as a result of this podcast. A previous guest, Jenn T. Grace, introduced us, and I’m so glad she did, because I’ve already learned so much from you, Tina. So before we dive in, I hope you’ll take a moment and tell our listeners about your work in the world.

Tina: Well, my company Twin Flames Studios focuses on getting more great voices out to the world. So really the mission behind the company is that audiobooks and podcasts are some of the lowest hanging fruit for people to start to change their lives. So particularly with audiobooks, and certainly with podcasts, they tend to be low cost or free. They’re available in multiple countries, a lot of them can be in multiple languages, and their stories are what keep us all connected as human beings. So the more that we can help leaders, subject matter experts, and people who have lived extraordinary lives in the nonfiction space, which is our specialty, tell their stories and get it out to the world, the more we can make a difference and leave our own legacy, as well as help with the legacies of all these authors that we work with. So what we’re talking about today is mostly our audiobook division, which is strictly nonfiction audiobooks. And we do full, done-for-you production, publishing, and distribution, both for professional narration as well as author narration, which is something we’re known for.

Have you noticed a trend of people buying audiobooks vs. other formats?

Becky: Tina, that’s really intriguing and I look forward to hearing more about that author voice narration. But let’s talk for a moment, first, about audiobooks as a genre. I’m curious to see what you’ve noticed about the trend of people buying audiobooks rather than other formats.

Tina: It’s been an interesting art because audiobooks are certainly not new. The first audiobook was produced during the Great Depression, and I believe it was a Christmas story. They’ve always been around. Those of us who are a little bit older will remember books on tape and getting them out at the library, things like that. But up until the shift in the market about six, eight years ago, where audiobooks became digital, the production of audiobooks was generally relegated to traditional publishing. It was very expensive to do and very expensive to distribute, because everything was in a hardcopy, and first on tape, well, first an album, then on tape, and God forbid, on 8-track, and then ultimately on CDs. So when everything went digital, and Amazon and Audible became the same company, when voice acting and narrators became available more online, we had the rise of the gig economy, all of these things kind of created a perfect storm for the rise and the renaissance of the audiobook. So audiobooks have risen in sales year upon year, in double digits for the last eight years. And some of those years, it’s been a 20% to even 25% rise in the sales of audiobooks. So it’s a billion dollar industry in the US alone, and the accessibility of it is largely what makes them so so so popular.

What are some reasons an author would consider investing in an audiobook?

Becky: Well, as the wife of a man who only consumes books via audio, I know that there are many people who really are drawn in a big way to that ease of being able to listen while you drive, or listen while you get something else done. And I think in a way, you already answered this question, Tina, but I’m gonna ask it anyway. What are some reasons an author would consider investing in an audiobook?

Tina: Well, you definitely have to look at what your purpose is, and I’m really glad you asked this question. So on the nonfiction side of the equation—fiction is going to have a different answer, and I can touch on it if you’d like—but on the nonfiction side of things, an author wants to look at doing an audiobook to access a wider audience, first of all. A lot of executives, C-suite folks, people who are decision makers or at high levels in their career, often listen to audio, or listen to audio and buy a copy of the book so that they can switch formats because they can multitask, and also because audiobooks you can listen to at faster speeds. So I know lots of people, including myself, who might put an audiobook up to one and a half time speed, in order to be able to consume the information and get what they need, and then maybe have a hard copy of the book to reference back or make notes in as they go, using it as a learning tool. And they use it to keep your brain juicy as you go. So having an audiobook does open up those markets. An audiobook is also a marketing tool and it is an evergreen marketing tool, just like your book is. So using snippets of your book, in audiograms, in book trailers, in different parts of your material, or even potentially as material to create a course or modules in the backend membership site that you might have, you can use your audiobook in all of these different ways as an asset, not just distributed on Audible.

Why might an author choose to narrate their own book?

Becky: So Tina, this might be a good time to talk about this idea of an author narrated audiobook. Why might an author choose to narrate their own book?

Tina: Well, speaking as an entrepreneur myself, I would say that we all have egos, so that’s really the first truth. You have to know that it feels, if you’ve gone through all of the process of writing a book that is part of your soul on paper, and it is in your voice and of course, you want to have the experience. And I hear this all the time, “I’m the only person that could narrate this book.” Now, that’s not actually true, but an author may actually feel very strongly about that. We should probably also, if we have time, talk about why an author wouldn’t narrate their own book, because most of our authors come to us assuming that they are going to narrate their own book. But for those who do want to have that, if you are going after speaking gigs, if you want to have your voice known in a particular industry, or if your voice is already highly associated with your work, you have a popular podcast, you’re a TED speaker, so on and so forth, there may be some congruency to having your voice on the book. At least in part, not every author narrates their entire audio book, sometimes we do what I lovingly call a Tony Robbins sandwich, which is a hybrid version of the book where the author introduces the material, does the introduction or the first chapter, and then kind of hands it off to a professional narrator who shares similar vocal qualities as the author, and certainly has similar energy as the author, and then the author comes back at the end of the book to wrap things up. Sometimes there’s a happy middle ground between the two, given how busy most of our authors are.

What are other reasons an author may not choose to narrate their own audiobook?

Becky: Well, that’s an amazing idea. And so in addition to being maybe too busy to narrate your own audiobook, Tina, what are some other reasons an author may not choose to narrate their own audiobook?

Tina: Well, not every expert has, first of all, a great voice. Not every expert has the desire to do it. That has a lot to do with it, because it feels like a slog behind the microphone. Because narrating an audiobook is no joke. It takes time. It takes discipline. We fully produce and direct our authors through the process. We remote into their home offices, make sure that we get great sound quality, all kinds of great stuff to support them. But ultimately, if you aren’t feeling it, you’re not going to have a good audiobook. And so not everybody is a verbal communicator. They might be really strong in writing, but not really enjoy a lot of speaking, particularly in long form narration like an audiobook requires. So there’s a really important cocktail of desire, skill, experience, and time that go into whether we determine it’s a best path forward for an author to have their own voice on the book, versus a professional narrator on the book. And not for nothing, but some authors may actually have either physical or other issues happening, that it’s not a good fit for them, depending on what they have going on in their lives or their abilities.

When is the best time for an author to release their audiobook?

Becky: That’s really helpful. So when do you find is the best time for an author to release their audiobook?

Tina: We tend to have authors come to us in one of two areas, or one or two timeframes, I should say. One is that they’re getting ready to launch a new book. And if it’s an author narrated book and they’re planning on doing preorders for their book, there are some technical caveats to when you can actually get your audiobook launched, particularly on Audible. Audible is the 500 pound gorilla in the room when it comes to audiobook distribution. They do own about 60% of the market share in audiobook sales. So not being on Audible is going to be a problem for you if you’re not there. So they have some rules about when you can get your audiobook out. But generally we can get pretty close, with an author narrated audiobook, to your launch date. And that’s kind of one scenario, you’re launching a new book and you end up putting the audiobook out, either at the same time as the other versions of it, or it’s a staggered launch anytime generally, within the first six months of the launch, there’s a lot of advantages to doing it that way, because it extends the life of the launch and you can get the same audience excited about a new format, or reach people that you haven’t reached before. So it’s a nice marketing technique to stagger your audiobook launch after the hardcover or ebook versions of the book that might come out first. 

The other version of audiobook launches comes into play when we have a book that could use a second life. Many authors come to us and they say, “I wish I could relaunch my book, knowing what I know now.” They may have had a difficult relationship with their original publisher, or they didn’t have the chops that they have now in marketing. So an audiobook is a way to give your book a second chance, and basically have a second launch, and that’s really valuable as well. Some folks even want to do a second edition of their book or add new material to it, so that comes into play as well.

Becky: That’s all really great advice and aligns to what I’ve coached authors to do. So I’m glad that we’re on the same page. It’s encouraging to hear. 

What does the process look like?

Becky: Tina, I’d love for you to explain to our listeners about the steps that you take, as you coach authors through this process. Obviously, you mentioned that it’s done for you. So you’re creating the audiobook for and with them. Tell me about those steps and about the timelines, so that if our listeners are considering investing in an audiobook, they know what to expect.

Tina: Yeah, let me talk about timelines first. So generally, we’re looking at about 90 days in either case, whether it’s author narrated, or professionally narrated. Some of this highly depends on the availability of the author, certainly in the case of the author narrated, but also in the case of professionally narrated, because there are key times that the author is needed to make choices. So for example, in the professionally narrated case, we have an audition process that is very robust, and we get about 150 auditions, per book, on average. We curate all of those auditions, first for sound and goodness of fit, and also the energy. Can we actually believe that this narrator is delivering this material? All of that gets done on the first round.

The second round is professional vetting. Can they meet the timeline? Can they meet the budget? How are they to work with? So we do all of that, before we present our authors with a list. Generally, we have about eight to twelve choices of our top picks, with their auditions in our notes on why we think they’re great. But we need the author to have a little time to listen through those things, and make a choice. So depending on how busy the author is, we can throw timelines off based on how much time they take, or God forbid, if they decide to make decisions by committee, which could happen. But the author is one of the couple of key things that we do that are important, because the author has creative choices, we’re not taking over the process like a traditional publisher would. We also don’t take any rights or royalties. So we keep our authors involved in the creative process, one way or another. 

So in the case of professional narration, once we have a narrator selected, and we’ve produced kind of the first 15 minutes or so with the book, and everybody’s on board with the tone and the pacing, the characterization that the narrator is using, the process goes quite quickly. And we, of course, handle all of this, not just the narration and the direction, but the proofing, the editing, the mastering, and after the author has had a chance to sign off on everything and it’s all good to go, it goes into a quality control process. Quality control on Audible can take up to 30 business days, so that’s all part of that 90 day period that I’m talking about. 

Similarly, on the author narrated side of things, I mentioned before we do sound checks, we do all of that. And then it’s a matter of scheduling the recording times, and you cannot bang out an audio book in a day. Most professional narrators don’t record for longer than two to three hours a day. So a non professional—like even a professional speaker—very, very rarely do we run into authors who can narrate for longer than two hours at a time. More likely it’s 90 minutes without losing gas, without their energy dropping into their feet, and that’s okay. But you do have to account for that in the schedule.

What is the average length of an audiobook?

Becky: What would be the average length of an audiobook, in this nonfiction kind of thought leadership experts space?

Tina: A lot of our books are right around the 30,000 to 50,000 word mark. When you get into really short books, 20,000 words or less, they don’t tend to do as well in sales for audiobooks. There are some exceptions, of course, simply because audiobooks are generally sold on a membership basis. So when you are an audiobook member of Audible, and you have a credit that you can use on an audiobook that is an hour and a half or two hours long, versus eight or 10 hours long, the perceived value is higher on the longer book. Now, that’s not to say that you shouldn’t do an audiobook version of a shorter book, but we might tweak the distribution strategy, and talk with you further about how that audio is going to be used to the best advantage.

Becky: Wow, I am learning so much today! I am sure our listeners are as well. 

What’s the range of investment that an author should expect if they want to create an audiobook? 

Becky: So my final question as it relates to audiobooks, Tina, is what’s the range of investment that an author should expect if they want to create an audiobook with the type of support that your organization provides?

Tina: Sure, absolutely. I think that for most books, on average, we look at somewhere in the $3,000 to $5,000 range. Sometimes less for shorter books. Sometimes more if somebody wants multiple narrators and they want music added. We’ve had a few specialty books that we’ve done that have even incorporated the audio from video clips and things like that, that have happened from major events, and whatnot. The average kind of cost of an audiobook with everything included, including the distribution, is definitely going to be in that three to five range.

Becky: I appreciate that transparency, because I think it really sets people up to consider whether this is an investment that they’re prepared to make. 

Action Steps

Becky: So, Tina, our listeners are used to us always giving them action steps at the end of every podcast, because this is the book marketing action podcast. I know you have a couple of action steps that you’d like people to take today. 

Tina: Oh, yeah, for sure.

Read your book out loud. The first thing is, have you ever read your book out loud? Take a couple of chapters of your book and just try reading it out loud. See how it feels. See how you like the material. Most of our authors, when they read their book out loud, which we have them do before they step into any kind of recording situation, they have a series of reactions to their own work. We all do. You also have a series of reactions to the sound of your own voice, and that’s okay too. But try it on, try it out and see what that’s like for you. If you’re in the process of writing a book, definitely read the book out loud before you finalize your editing, you will find all kinds of things there to make the book more narrative, maybe to shorten up sentences a little bit. And you’ll even catch errors that you didn’t catch when you were just doing it visually. So that’s really the first thing go read your book out loud. Download the step-by-step guide. The second thing is, is that a lot of the things that I talked about today, we’ve put into a guide. And we also have frequently asked questions and all kinds of good information, best practices, and a full kind of step-by-step guide on how to get your audiobook done. And you can find that at Launchyouraudiobook.com.ResourcesLearn more about Tina Dietz’s company, Twin Flames Studios, here. If you want to learn more about how successful authors leverage their books, download Tina’s free guide here. Connect with Tina on Twitter, LinkedIn, and Instagram. Connect with Twin Flames Studios on LinkedIn and YouTube. 

If you found value in today’s episode, we hope you’ll take a moment to share it with someone else who might benefit from it. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to cover, please email Becky Robinson here.

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The post Episode 53: Everything You Need to Know Before Investing in an Audiobook appeared first on Weaving Influence.