Pam Laricchia's Blog, page 35

EU078: Q&A Round Table

Anna Brown joins me to answer listener questions. Click here to submit your own question to the Q&A Round Table!

Quote of the Week

“I think if we can just be aware that we don’t have to hold all of this weight ourself, that we can have conversations, that we can include our children, that that just helps us move forward through all these different things because it’s a common theme. It doesn’t really matter what the situation or issue is if that same solution is to just open up and have conversations with each other.” ~ Anna Brown

Listener Questions

Vanessa’s Question (from BC, Canada) [TIME: 4:10]

About 6 months ago I was seeking out homeschooling podcasts and I stumbled upon Exploring Unschooling. I was hooked. This has been our first year of homeschooling/unschooling our 9-year-old girl and 10-year-old boy and I have been balancing between the 2 methods. Luckily, I live in the best province for homeschooling and the “school” we are with fully supports the child centered approach. What I have found the most fascinating about unschooling is how natural it felt. I have been unknowingly unschooling my children their whole lives and the transition from a traditional school to a natural home environment has been a very easy one. The more I listen to your podcasts and the wonderful guests you have on the more confident I feel about our choice.

Onto my question:

I’m an only child and I spent a lot of time on my own. Along with that came 2 words that now as a mom make me cringe. “I’m bored.” My own mothers’ response was always the same “Use your imagination!” My 8-year-old self would be so disappointed in me as I have to succumb to using the 3 most dreaded words of my childhood.

When my children say they are bored I feel as though I am failing at unschooling. I don’t even think that can be possible and yet here I am trying to fill the day with busy work just to avoid boredom. So, I ask you this, did your children ever get bored and how can I help my children fill their day without directly influencing their activity or interest choices?

Many Thanks, Vanessa

Alex’s Question (from France) [TIME: 15:37]

Hello, I hope you are having a good day.

I was wondering if you could help me with one small issue. I have been helping my children to wear their clothes from their birth but now they are 4 and 6 (both are boys) and they still ask me to help them (they actually do not really participate or very rarely participate so I put their clothes on alone). Recently I was thinking that probably they should do it themselves and I have been keeping asking them to do it alone and each time they do not agree and ask me to help again and again. I don’t mind and do it with love and patience. I was just wondering what is your attitude about it and should I push them to do it themselves or should I wait until they are ready? They already put their shoes and jackets themselves but not the other clothes. Should I wait until they are ready or should I ask them more firmly to do it themselves?

Thank you in advance.

Very kind regards, Alex

Anonymous Question [TIME: 20:50]

Hi there! I am the mom of 2 kids, a daughter 7.5 & a son 6. We have been homeschooling for 3 years (my daughter went to preschool) and have been on a steady road towards unschooling. Your podcast has been an invaluable resource for me on this journey.

I have 2 questions:

1. Both kids love TV and video games. At the moment, IOS games and online platforms are sufficient for them. However, my son is in LOVE with YouTube videos where he watches people play games on other gaming platforms – Nintendo, XBox, etc. The issue I foresee is with my husband. He has issues with gaming and finds it easier to manage with IOS or online games. But the second a game controller hits his hands he can’t leave it. He will become obsessive about playing, stays up all night and gets hostile towards anyone who tries to interrupt him. Therefore, we have kept these things out of the house. We are aware that this has to do with his past but he is not terribly willing to do the work to deal with the problem head on. I wish he would so that we can have these devices in our home to allow my son to follow his delight. So, I guess I’m wondering what your thoughts are on the issues that arise for parents when their children’s delights are triggering like this to the parent? I know that for myself, I have welcomed these triggers and see how they are an opportunity for me to grow. But what about a resistant partner?

2. Do you have any thoughts on the introverted parent who unschools extroverted children?

Thanks in advance and my deepest gratitude to you 3 lovely ladies!

Anonymous Question [TIME: 35:36]

Our son is about to turn nine and is an only child. We belong to a homeschooling community where we meet once a week for a field trip and once a week for park day. He enjoys it. The other days we spend at home, for the most part, as my husband and I both work from home, albeit not full-time. Our son loves Minecraft, Skyping with his homeschool friends and just started playing Roblox. We’ve always had unlimited time on the computer and he’s on it from when he wakes up until he goes to bed, literally. When we leave anywhere he wants to use my phone to watch videos to and from the places we go to. We just went to the grocery store where he spent the whole time watching my phone to and from and while in the store. He spends more time watching a screen than not watching a screen.

I’m sad about this as he doesn’t engage with me or with my husband, doesn’t want to eat meals with us (we suggest only dinner with us), isn’t the kindest person to me, etc. I offer other things to do and he’s not interested. I ask him to not get my phone from my purse when we get in the car and he grabs it anyway and says, “ha, ha!” We went on a weeklong trip without access to a computer and no internet and I saw the kid that I once had … interested in things, more joyful, playful. I miss him. I beat myself up for not having another child, but I had him at almost 44. I feel he watches YouTube videos to pass the time cuz there’s no one else around to spark interaction with. I support him by getting food and drinks for him throughout the day. I feel disrespected and of no use to him. My husband thinks he is disrespectful to but offers no assistance to the situation.

Any thoughts about sorting out these feelings?

Thank you, ladies.

ADDED LATER: I want to expand on it as my son opened up last night about his desire for a sibling. He was crying over it and it breaks my heart. He said if he had one, he could play all the time with a brother (his preference). He said if a kid is walking on the streets, we could take the kid home. We talked about the adoption process more. We have homeschool friends who adopted three siblings and he mentioned that if they could do it, so could we. He said that he watches and plays videos a lot because he doesn’t have anyone to play with (which relates to my previous question). I offered suggestions like more playdates. No, he wants a kid to be with us all the time. I offered more playtime with us (mom/dad) and he said no, he wants a brother. I woke up crying. He asked why we didn’t have a kid right after we had him and I didn’t know how to answer. I focus on how we are so happy that he was born, and he said why didn’t we start earlier so as to have more than one.

I had my son when I was almost 44 and my husband was 48. We met and married in our early 40s. My husband didn’t want another child, and I was on the fence. I feel like he’s going to grow up thinking back on his childhood and summarizing it as a lonely time because he didn’t have a sibling. He’s mentioned it throughout the years. He turns nine in one week. I can see how his life is so different than those with a sibling. There are positives and negatives to both, I get that (I have 8 siblings, my husband has 5). I feel like I’m letting him down and not supporting him. We could do x y and z but the underlying wish he wants realized just won’t be happen unless we adopt, which I hadn’t really entertained seriously until now as he was so emotional about his desires. Oh, my heart is heavy.

Links to things mentioned in the show

The Art of Asking by Amanda Palmer

Rest: Why You Get More Done When You Work Less by Alex Soojung-Kim Pang

Anna’s website: choosingconnection.com

Episode Transcript

Read the transcript here

EU078: Q&A Round Table with Anna Brown

Anna Brown joins me to answer listener questions. Click here to submit your own question to the Q&A Round Table!

Quote of the Week

“I think if we can just be aware that we don’t have to hold all of this weight ourself, that we can have conversations, that we can include our children, that that just helps us move forward through all these different things because it’s a common theme. It doesn’t really matter what the situation or issue is if that same solution is to just open up and have conversations with each other.” ~ Anna Brown

Listener Questions

Vanessa’s Question (from BC, Canada) [TIME: 4:10]

About 6 months ago I was seeking out homeschooling podcasts and I stumbled upon Exploring Unschooling. I was hooked. This has been our first year of homeschooling/unschooling our 9-year-old girl and 10-year-old boy and I have been balancing between the 2 methods. Luckily, I live in the best province for homeschooling and the “school” we are with fully supports the child centered approach. What I have found the most fascinating about unschooling is how natural it felt. I have been unknowingly unschooling my children their whole lives and the transition from a traditional school to a natural home environment has been a very easy one. The more I listen to your podcasts and the wonderful guests you have on the more confident I feel about our choice.

Onto my question:

I’m an only child and I spent a lot of time on my own. Along with that came 2 words that now as a mom make me cringe. “I’m bored.” My own mothers’ response was always the same “Use your imagination!” My 8-year-old self would be so disappointed in me as I have to succumb to using the 3 most dreaded words of my childhood.

When my children say they are bored I feel as though I am failing at unschooling. I don’t even think that can be possible and yet here I am trying to fill the day with busy work just to avoid boredom. So, I ask you this, did your children ever get bored and how can I help my children fill their day without directly influencing their activity or interest choices?

Many Thanks, Vanessa

Alex’s Question (from France) [TIME: 15:37]

Hello, I hope you are having a good day.

I was wondering if you could help me with one small issue. I have been helping my children to wear their clothes from their birth but now they are 4 and 6 (both are boys) and they still ask me to help them (they actually do not really participate or very rarely participate so I put their clothes on alone). Recently I was thinking that probably they should do it themselves and I have been keeping asking them to do it alone and each time they do not agree and ask me to help again and again. I don’t mind and do it with love and patience. I was just wondering what is your attitude about it and should I push them to do it themselves or should I wait until they are ready? They already put their shoes and jackets themselves but not the other clothes. Should I wait until they are ready or should I ask them more firmly to do it themselves?

Thank you in advance.

Very kind regards, Alex

Anonymous Question [TIME: 20:50]

Hi there! I am the mom of 2 kids, a daughter 7.5 & a son 6. We have been homeschooling for 3 years (my daughter went to preschool) and have been on a steady road towards unschooling. Your podcast has been an invaluable resource for me on this journey.

I have 2 questions:

1. Both kids love TV and video games. At the moment, IOS games and online platforms are sufficient for them. However, my son is in LOVE with YouTube videos where he watches people play games on other gaming platforms – Nintendo, XBox, etc. The issue I foresee is with my husband. He has issues with gaming and finds it easier to manage with IOS or online games. But the second a game controller hits his hands he can’t leave it. He will become obsessive about playing, stays up all night and gets hostile towards anyone who tries to interrupt him. Therefore, we have kept these things out of the house. We are aware that this has to do with his past but he is not terribly willing to do the work to deal with the problem head on. I wish he would so that we can have these devices in our home to allow my son to follow his delight. So, I guess I’m wondering what your thoughts are on the issues that arise for parents when their children’s delights are triggering like this to the parent? I know that for myself, I have welcomed these triggers and see how they are an opportunity for me to grow. But what about a resistant partner?

2. Do you have any thoughts on the introverted parent who unschools extroverted children?

Thanks in advance and my deepest gratitude to you 3 lovely ladies!

Anonymous Question [TIME: 35:36]

Our son is about to turn nine and is an only child. We belong to a homeschooling community where we meet once a week for a field trip and once a week for park day. He enjoys it. The other days we spend at home, for the most part, as my husband and I both work from home, albeit not full-time. Our son loves Minecraft, Skyping with his homeschool friends and just started playing Roblox. We’ve always had unlimited time on the computer and he’s on it from when he wakes up until he goes to bed, literally. When we leave anywhere he wants to use my phone to watch videos to and from the places we go to. We just went to the grocery store where he spent the whole time watching my phone to and from and while in the store. He spends more time watching a screen than not watching a screen.

I’m sad about this as he doesn’t engage with me or with my husband, doesn’t want to eat meals with us (we suggest only dinner with us), isn’t the kindest person to me, etc. I offer other things to do and he’s not interested. I ask him to not get my phone from my purse when we get in the car and he grabs it anyway and says, “ha, ha!” We went on a weeklong trip without access to a computer and no internet and I saw the kid that I once had … interested in things, more joyful, playful. I miss him. I beat myself up for not having another child, but I had him at almost 44. I feel he watches YouTube videos to pass the time cuz there’s no one else around to spark interaction with. I support him by getting food and drinks for him throughout the day. I feel disrespected and of no use to him. My husband thinks he is disrespectful to but offers no assistance to the situation.

Any thoughts about sorting out these feelings?

Thank you, ladies.

ADDED LATER: I want to expand on it as my son opened up last night about his desire for a sibling. He was crying over it and it breaks my heart. He said if he had one, he could play all the time with a brother (his preference). He said if a kid is walking on the streets, we could take the kid home. We talked about the adoption process more. We have homeschool friends who adopted three siblings and he mentioned that if they could do it, so could we. He said that he watches and plays videos a lot because he doesn’t have anyone to play with (which relates to my previous question). I offered suggestions like more playdates. No, he wants a kid to be with us all the time. I offered more playtime with us (mom/dad) and he said no, he wants a brother. I woke up crying. He asked why we didn’t have a kid right after we had him and I didn’t know how to answer. I focus on how we are so happy that he was born, and he said why didn’t we start earlier so as to have more than one.

I had my son when I was almost 44 and my husband was 48. We met and married in our early 40s. My husband didn’t want another child, and I was on the fence. I feel like he’s going to grow up thinking back on his childhood and summarizing it as a lonely time because he didn’t have a sibling. He’s mentioned it throughout the years. He turns nine in one week. I can see how his life is so different than those with a sibling. There are positives and negatives to both, I get that (I have 8 siblings, my husband has 5). I feel like I’m letting him down and not supporting him. We could do x y and z but the underlying wish he wants realized just won’t be happen unless we adopt, which I hadn’t really entertained seriously until now as he was so emotional about his desires. Oh, my heart is heavy.

Links to things mentioned in the show

The Art of Asking by Amanda Palmer
Rest: Why You Get More Done When You Work Less by Alex Soojung-Kim Pang
Anna’s website: choosingconnection.com

Episode Transcript

Read the transcript here

EU077: Girls Unschooled with Jo Watt

Jo Watt is an ex-teacher and now stay-at-home mom of two unschooling girls, ages four and six. She blogs at girlsunschooled.co.uk and about six months ago she, her husband Kriss, and the girls moved from the UK to the US Pacific Northwest. We have a wonderful conversation, digging into learning to read, when people want to do different things, what “fair” means, the value of free time, when we find ourselves out of step with our kids, and much more goodness.

And the podcast is now available on YouTube! The channel is Living Joyfully with Unschooling.

Quote of the Week

“It seemed weird choosing home ed at all, and unschooling just didn’t seem like it was enough, which, of course, is crazy because it’s everything, isn’t it? It’s opening your whole learning to everything and anything.” ~ Jo Watt

Questions for Jo

Can you share with us a bit how you and your family came to unschooling?

I was hoping you could take a moment to share what your girls are interested in right now and how they’re pursuing it?

You wrote a post a few months ago that was all about how we don’t need to rush reading. I was hoping you could share a bit about your journey through the conventional push for kids to read earlier and earlier?

With unschooling, we’re choosing to relate to our children, not through power and control that we were talking about earlier, but through connection and agreement, you know, finding a path forward that works for everyone involved. And it’s such a very different way of interacting with our children. I was hoping you share a story or two about ways you guys have worked through times when the girls were wanting to do different things?

Your husband Kriss has recently started writing on your blog as well. Can you share a bit about his journey to unschooling?

Over the years I’ve come to think that one of the biggest differences between unschooling and a conventional lifestyle is the amount of free time that our kids have to do whatever they choose. You know, you can really see, in our goals-driven society, that we’ve lost sight of how incredibly valuable that free time is. You wrote about this recently as well. I was hoping you could share what are some of the benefits that you’re seeing that come from releasing expectations around how we spend our time?

Your girls are still young, but I must suspect you’ve already experienced this. Sometimes it seems that just as we think we’ve found a groove with our children, things change. You know, we’re connecting well, we’re finding great ways to support them and their interests, and we are getting to the park, we are, figuring out ways that they can both get what they need and thing are happy, and then poof, all the sudden it feels like we’re playing catch up again, trying to figure it all out. Things just aren’t working out as smoothly as they were before. So, I was wondering if you’ve come across that situation, and how have you moved through it?

Links to Things Mentioned in the Show

Some fave games: Goat Simulator and Minecraft

Jo’s blog post, We don’t need to rush the reading

Podcast book chat, Attachment across the Lifecourse

Kriss’s intro post on the blog, An introduction from an unschooling dad

Jo’s blog post, Time, mistakes and forgiveness

The book, Rest by Alex Soojung-Kim Pang

Jo’s Facebook page, Girls Unschooled and her blog, girlsunschooled.co.uk

And she posts on Instagram

Episode Transcript

Read the transcript here

EU076: Choosing Home with Kerry McDonald

Kerry McDonald lives and learns together with her husband and four never-been-schooled children in Massachusetts, US. She blogs on her website, wholefamilylearning.com, is a founding member of alternativestoschool.com, and is on the board of the Alliance for Self-Directed Education. We have fun digging into all sorts of things, including what it really means to learn naturally, the distinction between equal opportunity and equal participation in the workforce, and Kerry’s passion for the intersection of self-directed learning and education policy.

And the podcast is now available on YouTube! The channel is Living Joyfully with Unschooling.

Quote of the Week

“No matter how wonderful the teachers are or how thoughtful the curriculum is, it’s still someone else’s ideas around what a child should know versus a child asking their own questions, pursuing their own interests, and moving along a path that’s meaningful to them.” ~ Kerry McDonald

Questions for Kerry

Can you share with us a bit about you and your family, and your journey from a Masters degree in Education to unschooling?

I love hearing what unschooling kids are up to! What are your children interested in at the moment and how are they pursuing it?

You recently wrote a blog post that I really enjoyed, “Natural Learning in an Artificial World.” I want to share a quote: “As homeschoolers, I think we have a tendency to seek out classes and educational experiences that foster what we consider to be natural learning. We look for programming that encourages self-direction and child-led learning. We search for teachers who connect with children and ignite their curiosity. But real, natural learning cannot be captured in a classroom or caged in a curriculum.” Can you talk more about what you mean by that?

You co-edited a book, along with Rachel Chaney, called Choosing Home: 20 Mothers Celebrate Staying Home, Raising Children, and Changing the World. Can you share the inspiration behind this collection of stories?

In your essay in the book, you talk about the consequences of society’s pursuit of equal participation of men and women in the workforce, of seeing the rise in stay-at-home moms over the past 15 years as a bad thing. What are some of the consequences you see?

You are on the organizing team of the Alliance for Self-Directed Education. Can you tell us a bit about the Alliance and its plans?

You’ve been publishing some great articles lately on websites like Intellectual Takeout and Foundation for Economic Education. The thread running through most of them seems to be diving into the consequences of the conventional school system. You write with such passion and I’d love to hear what has drawn you to that aspect?

Links to Things Mentioned in the Show

The Pioneer Institute, a think tank in the Boston area

Scratch, free programming language for kids—and the Scratch Jr. free app

Parts and Crafts, a makerspace in Somerville, MA

Kerry’s blog post, Natural Learning in an Artificial World

Kerry and Rachel Chaney edited and published a collection of essays, Choosing Home: 20 Mothers Celebrate Staying Home, Raising Children, and Changing the World

John Taylor Gatto’s book, The Underground History of American Education, and his letter published in the Wall Street Journal op-ed section, I Quit, I Think (July 1991)

Kerry’s a founding member of the website, alternativestoschool.com

Kerry’s articles on Intellectual Takeout and Foundation for Economic Education websites

Kerry’s website and blog is at wholefamilylearning.com and her Facebook page, Whole Family Learning

She’s also on the board of the Alliance for Self-Directed Education

Episode Transcript

Read the transcript here

 

EU075: Learning Reimagined with Zakiyya Ismail

Zakiyya Ismail is an unschooling mom of three kids, ages 10 to 19. Earlier this year, she hosted the first Learning Reimagined Family Conference in South Africa. She also shares her wonderful insights into the unschooling lifestyle on her website, growingminds.co.za. Our conversation spans from her journey to unschooling, through the idea of deschooling parents as immigrants in our children’s native unschooling world, to her thoughts around unschooling as a tool for decolonization. With lots of wonderful stops along the way!

Quote of the Week

“They view their learning as they do their breathing, that is, they do not view it at all.” ~ Zakiyya Ismail

Questions for Zakiyya

Can you share with us a bit about you and your family and how you discovered unschooling?

I love hearing what unschooling kids are up to. What are your children interested in at the moment and how are they pursuing it?

You wrote an amazing essay, An Immigrant Deschooler in a Native Unschooler’s World. In it, you nailed something that I’d noticed but couldn’t yet articulate: how unschooling children do not look at their lives through the lens of learning. You wrote: “They view their learning as they do their breathing, that is, they do not view it at all.” Can you share your perspective on unschooling natives, immigrants, and settlers?

I would love to chat about the idea of a “successful unschooler.” I read a comment you wrote on Facebook on the topic and it reminded me of something I’ve talked about before, that unschooling isn’t about being a different path to raising a conventionally successful adult. You mentioned “the inevitable question of access to higher education and employability” that is so often asked by people curious about unschooling. It’s understandable that, at first, they have a tight grip on that conventional definition of success, but if they hold onto it for too long, it can get in the way, can’t it?

Earlier this year you hosted the first Learning Reimagined conference in South Africa. I’d love to hear how it went, and can you share something you learned, or a new insight that was sparked that weekend?

Can you share with us a quick overview of what it’s like to unschool in South Africa? What are the legalities? It seems you are actively building a community there, how is that going?

You wrote an article for the most recent edition of Families Learning Together Magazine about your family’s extended trip to India. In it, you mentioned a moment you were proud of during your visit to the Taj Mahal. Could you share the story with us?

You have created an Facebook group called “Unschooling as a Tool for Decolonization.” Can you explain what you mean by that, and how unschooling can be a powerful option when we explore decolonizing education?

Links to Things Mentioned in the Show

The first Learning Reimagined Family Conference in South Africa

The online game her eldest son plays: Dota

Her daughter plays Overwatch and Minecraft

Zakiyya’s wonderful essay, An Immigrant Deschooler in a Native Unschooler’s World

Recent local event: Unschooling: Liberation and Language with Akilah Richards

Akilah’s podcast episode, Ten Questions with Akilah S. Richards

Annual Home Educating Families’ Festival in the UK

Zakiyya’s article, Our First Family Trip to India, in Families Learning Together Magazine

Her Facebook group, Unschooling as a Tool for Decolonization

Connect with Zakiyya on Facebook or Twitter

Zakiyya’s website is growingminds.co.za and her Facebook pages, Growing Minds & Hearts and Unschooling in South Africa

Episode Transcript

Read the transcript here

EU074: Ten Questions with Robyn Coburn

Robyn Coburn is an unschooling mom and her 17 year-old daughter has never been to school. I’ve known Robyn for many years online and have always enjoyed her perspective. We dive into deschooling fears, sleeping patterns, tips for handling meltdowns, the differing needs of kids and teens, unschooling conferences, and much more.

Quote of the Week

“It is so much easier not to be living in a state of siege and battle every day.” ~ Robyn Coburn

Questions for Robyn

1. Can you share with us a bit about you and your family, and how you discovered unschooling?

2. I’d love to hear a bit about what your daughter is up to. What is she interested in right now and how is she pursuing it?

3. When you were in the thick of deschooling, what was the biggest fear that was tripping you up and how did you work through it?

4. I recall, many years ago, conversations online about sleeping patterns and I felt a virtual connection with you because Jayn’s sleeping patterns seemed similar to Joseph’s. How did you approached that?

5. I came across a great response you gave to a mom asking about things to do during a meltdown. Can you share some of your insights and tips?

6. There’s another question I see pretty regularly that I’d love to chat with you about: can unschooling spoil a child? From the outside looking in, it might look like that would be the result of our actions, but in reality it’s really different, isn’t it?

7. I find it interesting how our children’s needs change between the child and teen years. I’ve found it’s not so much that they need us less, but they do need us differently. What’s been your experience?

8. I know you and your family attend unschooling conferences pretty regularly. Can you share a bit about your experience? What is it you guys love about them?

9. What has been the most challenging aspect of your journey to unschooling?

10. Looking back, what has been the most valuable outcome so far from choosing unschooling?

Links to Things Mentioned in the Show

John Holt’s books, How Children Fail and How Children Learn

HSC: The HomeSchool Association of California

Pam Sorooshian’s blog

Sandra Dodd’s email list: Always Learning

Robyn’s reply: Mothering during a meltdown

Robyn is on Facebook, her resume website is workinproduction.com, and her creativity website is iggyjingles.com

Episode Transcript

Read the transcript here

EU073: Q&A Round Table

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Anne Ohman and Anna Brown join me to answer listener questions. Click here to submit your own question to the Q&A Round Table!

Quote of the Week

“The thing about thinking unschooling is about releasing parental controls, is this: I feel there is no release at all unless the parent believes they have the power to release control.” ~ Anne Ohman

Listener Questions

Kelly’s Question [TIME: 5:22]

We have been unschooling for just over 2 years; with one year of project-based homeschooling before that. My kids were 7 and 10 when they left school. There were no big issues, we wanted to give them the opportunity to learn with freedom and choice.

Unschooling has been great for our family and a huge source of personal growth for me as I deschool and lift the layers of my beliefs and assumptions. It has been so much more inner work than I ever fathomed it to be, but so, so worth it.

But friends, please do help me peel back the last layers that I am harboring around FOOD and activity.

We definitely controlled our kids’ food pre-unschooling, and ate organic, raised a lot of our own food, rationed treats and sweets, etc. As we lifted the controls on food, my son—my younger child—really dove into all the things we never allowed him before. Soda, candy, commercial brands of processed snacks, etc. It’s been 2 years and it really hasn’t let up.

I have been breathing, and ‘yes-ing’ and buying. I know I still hold tension inside (sometimes less so than others) but I bite my tongue and ask open questions like, do you feel like salty or sweet food? hot or cold? and other questions to help him tune into himself when he asks for food.

Sometimes I try and give a little more nutritional information, but he is very sensitive to anything that sounds like it might be a lecture and I do not want to make him feel bad, or lectured to, so I have kept this to a minimum as he doesn’t ask for the information and tells me he’s done listening after I offer some unsolicited info.

He loves to come to the grocery store with me and pick out his snacks—cupcakes, chocolate bars, juices, popsicles, other candy etc. He also picks out fruit he likes, meat, seafood! and other things.

Here’s the thing—he has gained a lot of weight in the last 2 years. He stays up very late, into the wee hours, gaming. I wake up to cartons of ice cream and multiple popsicle wrappers or candy bar wrappers on the coffee table. While I do think some could be attributed to pre-teen weight gain, I cannot ignore the hours of sitting and abundance of sweet food and desserts as contributors as well. I do not care about him getting a little chubby except the weight has made it more difficult for him to be physically active. He gets tired easily. He avoids doing certain activities, because it’s hard for him. He loves mountain biking—next to gaming, it’s his passion, with his dad. This summer he has chosen to go to a week-long camp at his favorite mountain. He’s excited and we are excited for him.

He is not in shape for it.

He does a couple of activities during the week at the Y, and a martial arts class. These 3-4 hours of activity do not balance out the hours of sitting and gaming the rest of the week, especially when he sleeps until 1-2pm. He gets winded going up the stairs, or doing a rousing play-sword fighting match with me.

As the younger brother with just one older sister who does not want to play with him, he doesn’t have a regular active playmate. We get together with friends, but it’s only a couple times a month. I do as much as he wants with him, but when he gets up at 2pm, he wants to get right to his games and it feels like our time together is short by the time I am ready for bed, around 10 or 11.

I want him to have a great time at camp. We have had casual conversations about getting ‘ready’ for camp. We live in snow country, so it is not nice out yet, but hopefully within a month or so, spring will be here. I am hoping with the better weather, we’ll get out more naturally—on our trampoline, building bike jumps in the yard…

I’d love your advice on how I can best support my son to 1- maybe consider how eating affects our bodies and our ability to engage in physical activities we enjoy and 2- that conditioning will help him to take on big taxing activities like biking for 5 days straight!

How can I do this without lecturing or scaring him off?

Thanks so much—I never miss the podcast! I listen every week.

Clare’s Question (from Cambridgeshire, UK) [TIME: 31:05]

Hi there!

My question is a bit of a selfish one to be truthful!  But here goes…… I am exhausted at the end of the day as two of my children (both boys) are very dependent on me to entertain them, one is 10yrs old and the other is 4yrs old.  I have a 9-yr-old too but he happily amuses himself on his various devices.  I feel I let them go on their gaming consoles all day so I can have some peace.  I am just so tired if I don’t play with them they are constantly saying they are bored.  How do I manage it all?  Playing with them, cleaning and general housework I am just so tired.  I am not sure what my question is really I’m just struggling to entertain my boys so they are not bored all the time.  Crafts they are not interested in at all or reading it is constant action parks (I don’t sit down on the bench at the park but play with them) football, shooting games or imaginative play.  They can’t seem to play without me!  Its lovely but I’m so tired and find I am 100 miles an hour most days!

Any advice?

Jen’s Question (from Florida, US) [TIME: 42:33]

Hi Pam, Ann & Anna,

I’ve been listening to your podcast for about 6 months now. When my son was an infant, I took him to a parent & baby class—the parent education was very helpful & started me down the path of being respectful and responsive. But the child centered portion was so ridiculous—trying to “teach” infants—even to the point of stopping them from open ended exploration of the materials.

From there I realized he was in for many years of that… unless we unschool him of course! I have had (and still have) a lot of deschooling to do, but already there is so much more joy in our interactions & so much deeper communication between us. I couldn’t have imagined that a 20-month-old could communicate so many of his needs & wishes, and even understand and voluntarily respect my personal boundaries. Already it’s fascinating to see his interests develop and weave together and to grow myself as I stretch to find the excitement in things that totally don’t excite me but that he loves. (Like motorcycles—after spending months sort of unintentionally being dismissive toward this interest and sort of giving it as little attention as possible hoping it would go away, the first time I jumped in and actively pointed out a motorcycle he hadn’t noticed he gave me a smile like the brightest sun.)

I’m mostly writing because I know you get lots of questions about “screen time” and so I thought this might be of interest. I grew up with very tightly controlled screen access and thought during pregnancy that we would literally do NO screens until 2 years as recommended by the AAP. Well we ended up introducing videos in the car because it was the only thing that would keep him happy when someone couldn’t sit next to him in the back. And then we used the phone to show him photos of himself & long distance relatives. And then we used YouTube to show him videos related to other interests (real life trains, animal sounds etc) and pretty soon, he was actively asking to watch videos. For months I would try everything to distract him from watching a video and end up giving in when he would cry because I wasn’t letting him. I didn’t like that battle for control, so after many episodes of this podcast, I took a deep breath and decided to give it a few months of letting him watch as much as he wanted and trying to suspend my fears. I started offering more options to watch, things he wouldn’t know exist to ask for, and he started selecting videos based on what thumbnail looked interesting to him.

When my fears crept back in I would return to sportscasting, and guessing aloud what it might be that he liked about a certain video. Through this process his vocabulary has grown so he can now ask me to search for videos on an ever broader range of interests. Now I can see how excited he gets when he finds a video he likes and he points and calls out the exciting things he sees. And then when we are out or in other play, I see his excitement and pride in himself when he can name or recognize something he learned from watching a video. There is so much joy in our interactions and in all the relationships in our family. This is my very long winded way of saying thank you thank you thank you for all your work and for helping me see my little boy blossoming!

And lastly, a request. I would love if you could have an episode sometime talking about applying unschooling to very young kids. Since he isn’t able to have a full conversation yet or verbalize complex ideas & feelings, finding ways to meet both our needs or to creatively let him explore without letting him be unsafe (like running out into the street for example) as well as support him when he has strong feelings that he doesn’t know how to express feels pretty one sided. As in, it’s mostly me talking & he can’t really help find the solutions, though he does sometimes give a yes or no about whether something I suggest works for him. I try to approach everything with patience, creativity, and to start with naming what I see before trying to solve anything, but I would really love some more ideas & perspectives from more experienced unschoolers about what it looks like to apply these principles with very young children.

Stacey’s Question (from Idaho, US) [TIME: 54:23]

Dear unschooling mamas,

I love this podcast, Pam. My favorite part is the Q&A with you, Anna and Anne. You all inspire me to be the kind of mama that I know I can be.

You are all so positive and filled with joy.

Sometimes I am not. Somedays I am grumpy, tuned out and long to live on a desert island far away from my family.

Will you please talk about the hard days. The days you don’t want to be creative and joyful? The days you want no one to ask you for anything. I know you have grown children and the demands for your time and attention have now shifted, but please tell me about your days when you felt like this.

Thank you so much for the good work you are doing.

I honestly feel like you are 3 of my newest best friends.

Links to things mentioned in the show

The Highly Sensitive Child by Elaine N. Aron
Kids, Carrots, and Candy by Jane R. Hirschmann and Lela Zaphiropoulos
Karen James, on Boredom
Pam’s blog post, Attachment Parenting Flows Into Unschooling
Unschooling Mom2Mom’s Unschooling Early Childhood Facebook group
Pam’s blog posts: Finding Joy, A Positive Outlook Isn’t Turning a Blind Eye, and Mindfulness and Unschooling
Anne’s website: shinewithunschooling.com
Anna’s website: choosingconnection.com

Episode Transcript

Read the transcript here

 

EU072: Unschooled Master of Arts with Sophie Christophy

Sophie Christophy lives in the UK and is unschooling with her husband and two children. She is a self-directed scholar and she joins Pam to chat about her personal Unschooled Master of Arts project: to explore the theory that the key to transformative social change is found via shifting parent-child education/child dynamics to a human rights model.

Quote of the Week

“I feel like just imagining our children’s adult experiences, experiences when they are older, when they are making much higher risk choices like to get married, or to buy a property or they are taking this job or that job or where they are going to live. Help them out by not disorientating them. Just allow them to be themselves the whole way then hopefully, when they reach the point of making those decisions, they are going to be so much closer to what they actually want to do, deep down.” ~ Sophie Christophy

Questions for Sophie

Can you share with us a bit about you and your family, and how you came to unschooling?

Last summer you started a personal project you’ve called an Unschooled Master of Arts. I’d love to hear the story behind it.

You’re working your way through Module 1, The History of Childhood. I find the distinction between children and childhood really interesting. With unschooling, we’re quite focused on children’s lives and parenting, whereas the concept of childhood is tightly woven into societal systems. What are your thoughts around that distinction?

What is one of the most interesting connections between your studies and unschooling that you’ve come across so far?

You’re coming up on one year now, what have you learned so far about the process, and about yourself? How well has it meshed with your unschooling lives?

You wrote an post on your blog a while ago exploring some ideas about consent in education. In it, you talked about negative stereotypes of children society holds and learning through mistakes. I’d love to hear more of your thoughts around this.

I know the issue of childism/adultism is close to your heart. Can you explain the concept and share a bit about the impact you see in our lives?

Links to Things Mentioned in the Show

Dr. Carlo Ricci’s episode, an alternative education professor who strong believes children are capable

The Elisabeth Kübler-Ross Foundation

Sophie’s personal blog, “intersecting parenthood, childhood, education and consent”

Sophie’s Unschooled Master of Arts blog

Sophie on Twitter and Facebook

Episode Transcript

Read the transcript here

EU071: Changes in Parents with Sandra Dodd

Sandra Dodd is a long-time unschooling mom of three—Kirby, Marty, and Holly—who are now all adults. She’s also the creator of the awesome unschooling resource, sandradodd.com, and I’m thrilled to have her back on the podcast. In this episode, we talk about the changes that we go through as parents as we live this unschooling lifestyle with our children, and the kinds of questions that people have along the way that seem to break down reasonably well into beginner, intermediate and advanced topics.

Quote of the Week

“No-one is ever likely to read my whole website and I don’t ever need them to. It’s not written to be read from one end to the other any more than a pharmacy is intended for someone to start at one end and eat, drink or inject every substance in the whole room. If you find a page that does help you, guess what? It will help even more if you read it again after a year or two. And if you read it after you’ve been unschooling for five years it will seem that the first time it was a black and white postcard and now it’s a technicolour movie. Because you’ll understand it better and you’ll see the subtlety and the artistry of what people wrote and maybe you’ll wish you’d been able to understand it better sooner.” ~ Sandra Dodd

Questions for Sandra

I recall when I was beginning unschooling, my days were typically a mix of learning about how natural learning works and starting to question a lot of the conventional wisdom I’d absorbed growing up. There are many ways that preconceived ideas and prejudices can limit people’s thinking and get in the way of moving to unschooling, aren’t there?

When you’re starting out, it can be hard to figure out whether to trust a source of unschooling information at first. What tips would you give to help?

You recorded a great 5-minute video a few years ago called “Doing Unschooling Right.” I want to share a short quote: “My definition for unschooling is creating and maintaining an environment in which natural learning can thrive. The environment I’m talking about—what we sometimes call an unschooling nest—is not just the physical home, it’s the relationships within the family and the exploration of the world outside the home by parents and children both. The emotional environment is crucial.”

We’re approaching intermediate unschooling here, where natural learning is reasonably well understood and now there’s a dawning realization of the importance of our relationships. As you say, the emotional environment is crucial so that our children feel safe and secure. Why is that so important for unschooling to thrive?

There was so much tucked into your definition for unschooling! Another great tidbit was, “the exploration of the world outside the home by parents and children both.” We’ve seen our children’s learning in action, and now we’re realizing the important role we play. Parents need to become unschoolers and that process doesn’t happen all at once. Can you talk about why that’s so important?

We do a monthly Q&A episode where we answer listener questions and we’ve had a few about the concept of strewing. That was originally your idea, so I was hoping you could share with us a bit more detail about it while you’re here.

Now I’d like to talk about the perspective of those who’ve been unschooling a long time—it’s a different mindset, isn’t it? It’s not just the intellectual understanding of the principles of unschooling but also the real-life experience of having seen it in action with your own family, and moving through different seasons and different challenges. There’s an expansive feeling of openness and release that comes. How would you describe it?

Links to Things Mentioned in the Show

Sandra’s earlier Ten Questions episode

Joyce Fetteroll’s website: joyfullyrejoycing.com

Sandra’s page of other voices

Pam Sorooshian’s essay, Unschooling is Not Child-Led Learning

Sandra’s Facebook group, Radical Unschooling Info

Sandra’s video, Doing Unschooling Right (and with Portuguese subtitles)

Sandra’s webpage about Maslow’s hierarchy of needs

Leah Rose on moderation, on Sandra’s website

“Of your own certain knowledge …”

UK science fiction show, Black Mirror

Sandra’s pages on service and serving others as a gift

Sandra’s daily boost, Just Add Light and Stir

Sandra’s yahoo email group, Always Learning

And last, but not least, Sandra’s website, sandradodd.com

Episode Transcript

Read the transcript here

EU070: Book Chat with Emma Marie Forde

Emma Marie Forde is unschooling mom to two girls, Lily and Rosa. She’s also the founder of the website, rethinkingparenting.co.uk. Before having children, Emma was a clinical psychologist, a career that informed her choice to stay home with her own children and which eventually led her and her husband John to choose unschooling for their family.

In this episode, Emma and I have a great chat about the book, Re-Thinking Autism: Diagnosis, Identity and Equality.

Quote of the Week

“The contemporary cultural autism story told about people with the label drowns out all the other stories that could be told about them. Autism is a story but it is not the story.” ~ Katherine Runswick-Cole

Re-Thinking Autism: Diagnosis, Identity and Equality , edited by Katherine Runswick-Cole, Rebecca Mallett and Sami Timimi

In this collection of essays, the authors set out to challenge some of the ways in which autism is understood by looking through the lenses of the science of autism, the cultural life of autism, and the professional interventions or treatments of autism. They note that they are writing in the spirit of “openness, inquiry, and the desire to help improve people’s lives.”

The book has four specific aims, outlined in the introduction:

To challenge the evidence base for biomedical models of autism.
To explore the impact of the diagnosis on the lived experience of people so labeled.
To offer a conceptual critique of the production, consumption and commodification of autism in the twenty-first century in a global context.
To explore ideas for service provision and practice that move beyond a focus on the diagnosis.

As I read, I was really struck with the many parallels I saw between their questioning of society’s approach to children’s behaviour and unschooling parents questioning of society’s approach to children’s learning. Emma and I really enjoyed diving in and pondering the many interesting questions the authors raised.

I think one of my favourite questions comes from the essay, The Ethics and Consequences of Making Autism Spectrum Disorder Diagnoses, by Saqib Latif:

“There is no dispute about the existence of ASD behaviours; instead the dispute is about whether these behaviours amount to a discrete naturally occurring category that the diagnostic label represents. Is it fair, necessary or useful to reduce down to a one-dimensional construct of ASD the evolving personality, experiences, diverse histories and contexts of a growing child with a highly plastic brain? Human behaviour involves social and moral dimensions, and cannot be understood without taking into consideration the values of that individual, their family and indeed their broader cultural milieu. One wonders, given that there is such a massive variation, whether it should be called a ‘disorder’ spectrum, or just a ‘human’ spectrum.”

Links to Things Mentioned in the Show

The book: Re-Thinking Autism: Diagnosis, Identity and Equality, edited by Katherine Runswick-Cole, Rebecca Mallett and Sami Timimi

Emma mentioned the book, The Myth of Autism: Medicalising Men’s and Boys’ Social and Emotional Experience (2010) by Sami Timimi, Brian McGabe and Neil Gardner

Pam’s blog post, about Unschooling and Critical Thinking

Anne Ohman’s essay, I Am What I Am

Katherine Runswick-Cole’s interview on The Radical Therapist podcast about her experience

Our book chat about Ungifted: Intelligence Redefined by Scott Barry Kaufman

Ginny Russell’s current research project is looking at the impact of diagnosis and labelling in relation to autism and the neurodiversity movement, and she’s quite welcoming of people getting in touch with her

Sami Timimi’s talk, Autism: Do Labels Help or Hinder? (YouTube)

Emma mentioned Theraplay

Emma’s website: Rethinking Parenting

Episode Transcript

Read the transcript here