Sun > Status Update

Mónica wrote: "I don't like having to comment on the topic of children but I also can't keep quiet about this.

Since around 2012 I can say without a doubt that the only pictures and/or info about kids *I* have s..."

I was going to say something, but you did all for me again. ;-) <3

Smart Bitches, Trashy Books update

After being told that SBTB was "looking into" the SH allegations, I kept checking the site in hopes to see something (anything!) about their support of SH.

As of today (03/14/18), all of the SH posts are up and there's the following note on the transcript for the SH podcast (no. 260, August 18, 2017):

Greetings. This is a new introduction for this podcast episode, #260.

It’s currently March 2018, and a LOT has happened. First, there have been a number of allegations about Santino Hassell, who is interviewed in this episode, specifically about abuse, manipulation, and the hiding or concealing of the actual identity of the author of the books published under that name. The combination of these allegations have led to Hassell being dropped by their agent and by Riptide and Dreamspinner Press.

This interview was set up by the publicity department at Berkley, which is part of Penguin Random House, so I went to them to ask, did I interview the author of the books published under the name Santino Hassell?

On 13 March 2018, Berkley released the following statement:

Our official statement regarding Santino Hassell: By mutual agreement with the author, Berkley has terminated its relationship with Santino Hassell. InterMix will no longer publish the next two novels in the Barons series.


Now, I did follow up to ask the question of whether I interviewed the author of the books we discussed, but I didn’t get a definitive answer.

I know that they and other publishing professionals were working under the assumption that they were representing the author, and that they believed the person they connected with me was the author of the books they published. I was not aware of any of the allegations about Santino Hassell when this interview was recorded and released.

I do know this for certain, though: a lot of people were taken in by the deception, including me, publicists, editors, agents, writers, and readers. It is a painful mess. And I know a lot of readers are very sad and upset.

For technical and archival reasons, I’m leaving this episode up, but with this new introduction. If I receive more information, I’ll share it in the show notes to this episode, #260. If you have questions, feel free to email me at sbjpodcast@gmail.com.

And now, here is the original episode, released in August of 2017.


I am...super disappointed that they've chosen to support SH. And, yes, even though they're not saying it, the fact that ALL of the reviews + the podcast remain on SBTB's site is a quiet act of support.

They're one of the biggest romance blogs and I'm over 100% sure that other blogs, readers, and reviewers who were still on the fence had been waiting for SBTB's "decision" on SH. >:(

I've edited my original comment about blogs' actions regarding SH's post (on page 28, no.1375) to reflect SBTB's wishy-washy stand.

Ariadna wrote: "Smart Bitches, Trashy Books update

After being told that SBTB was "looking into" the SH allegations, I kept checking the site in hopes to see something (anything!) about their support of SH.

As o..."

I read that first thing this morning. I didn't take it as them supporting SH. They clearly say they were taken in by SH along with everyone else. They also specifically say they are leaving the podcast up for technical/archival purposes only.

Charming wrote: "Not to pick on you, but just because this came up and your comment is easy to reply to: I think we need to be really careful not to act like every time SH raises a new issue, the victims need to prove something. SH have proven themselves to be liars and the victims haven't. SH should have to prove their contentions, not throw out accusations and make everyone else prove they aren't true.

In this example, how do Nikki et al. prove they didn't doxx any children? You can't prove a negative. SH needs to prove it happened or we should all ignore them. IMHO. ."

I promise I didn't mean it like that at all and I apologize if my words came across as insensitive or were understood as victims having to prove anything. That wasn't my intention and I'm sorry if I chose my words poorly!

I was thinking of people coming here who are just now learning about any of this and I think that we should try to answer questions as best as we can. This thread was shared all over the internet and every day I see a comment like "Whoa! I'm hearing about this for the first time."
It is possible that people come here first to seek answers before looking for them anywhere else. So a question doesn't necessarily need to be an accusation but is just a means to understand.

I understand that this can be difficult especially for those who worked so long and hard at uncovering all of this and having been called liars and worse for many months. So again, I'm sorry if my comment hurt anyone!

Lucy wrote: "We understand people would ask since that was in the latest statement posted. This same persona garnered sympathy and in return it had people buying those “kids” gifts since “his” medical bills from chemo/radiation were so expensive. “He” exploited children that don’t exist, all because it’s a lie that got out of hand? I think it’s sad that they used their personal stuff as someone else so really the entire time they knew people had no clue it was them behind it all.."

It is sad! And anyone who, at this point, beliefs their words more than what they can see with their own eyes is just delusional IMO. Like I said, I don't know why I'm still surprised at them having no scruple at all. I shouldn't be because they have proven it again and again.

Heather wrote: "Speechless. I am speechless.
Or not, since I’m about to go on a long-winded rant. ;)

I am a DSP author (under a different pen name, link so you can see I use my real picture and am not pretending ..."

Thank you for your post, Heather!

Lex wrote: "And again with the "Ive been doxxed". This is SH playing the victim while blaming the actual victims."

still?? o.O
smh

I can’t even keep up with what’s happening anymore and who says what.
Do we have a list of who the ‘good guys’ and who the ‘bad guys’ are? I don’t wanna keep reading and supporting authors who were involved in this mess.

Sakura wrote: "Notice on Alisha Monroe's profile:

https://www.goodreads.com/author/show...

Fluid gender.

If that's the correct Alisha/Alicia, the latest fauxpology is just the next step in ..."

If that’s the direction that’s next taken to prove same person has been SH this whole time and it is indeed Alisha/Alicia and not Marvin, then there’s gunna be another major self-contradiction because I remember one of the posts SH recently made described themselves as a “cis bisexual man.” Was that on the apology post or the most recent “other post?”

Sorry, just something that was spinning in my brain of a sudden.

Dodo wrote: "I can’t even keep up with what’s happening anymore and who says what.
Do we have a list of who the ‘good guys’ and who the ‘bad guys’ are? I don’t wanna keep reading and supporting authors who wer..."

I think people are trying to actively avoid slapping a "bad guy" label on authors. I think it's really up to each individual reader to educate themselves on the whole debacle and from there decide for themselves who the are and are not willing to support from this point on.

I personally am giving the co-authors/"the squad" the benefit of doubt. I wouldn't be comfortable with condemning them without 100% irrefutable evidence that they were aware of SH's actions. Santino Hassell is obviously on my blacklist.

Sadie Sins landed herself on it to with this post : http://www.sadiesinsbooks.com/current...

Vanessa North is the one other one that I feel I need to examine more. Her apology seemed the least sincere and all about herself, in my opinion. And I know that outside of the SH debacle, I've seen other mentions of behaviour unbecoming. I don't follow authors on social media, so I'm usually unaware of the things authors are saying on those platforms. I was only aware of any of this after seeing Riptide's first tweet on the matter last week.

Fabi wrote: "I read that first thing this morning. I didn't take it as them supporting SH. They clearly say they were taken in by SH along with everyone else. They also specifically say they are leaving the podcast up for technical/archival purposes only."

Honestly,I have no idea what the "technical" reasons would be (and, to me, it sounds like the vaguest thing in the explanation). In addition, I truly do not understand what the archival purpose would be of keeping the podcast available when 100% of what SH says in the podcast are lies.

SBTB might be ~shocked~ by the SH catfishing reveal, but they sure don't care about lending some degree of support to Marvin and Alicia. Because, yes, leaving a podcast up in which one half of the SH scamming team goes on spewing everything but the truth for 51 and a half minutes is a slap on the face of SH's victims and former readers.

SBTB has chosen to be "neutral" after so many things have been revealed and confirmed. It's really sad that they're so spineless in light of everything that's happened. #YMMV

Ariadna wrote: "Fabi wrote: "I read that first thing this morning. I didn't take it as them supporting SH. They clearly say they were taken in by SH along with everyone else. They also specifically say they are le..."

I have to say, that is really binary thinking and the situation is too complex for that. If it were me, I would keep the podcasts up. 1) why create unnecessary gaps in the release dates? 2) It happened. They put a lot of work into procuring and producing the interview. Many of us have chosen to keep our reviews up, either under spoiler tags or not for the reasons that have to do with our own lives at the time of writing them. This interview is part of the history of her *business*. And 3) preserving his spoken words is a good thing. Attempting to erase them from the Internet only benefits them. In that it makes a return that much easier.
As a former reader, my face feels fine.

Pendragonish wrote: "Ariadna wrote: "Fabi wrote: "I read that first thing this morning. I didn't take it as them supporting SH. They clearly say they were taken in by SH along with everyone else. They also specifically..."

1. There are several ways they could've worked around the gap. It's not like everything on their site is set in stone.

2. Everyone has the option to decide their hard lines and how much they can compromise.

3. There is extensive documenting of what happened (including things that haven't been posted or shared).

*Hands*

Bianca wrote: "Ariadna wrote: "Smart Bitches, Trashy Books update

After being told that SBTB was "looking into" the SH allegations, I kept checking the site in hopes to see something (anything!) about their supp..."


Totally. :-/

Ariadna wrote: "Pendragonish wrote: "Ariadna wrote: "Fabi wrote: "I read that first thing this morning. I didn't take it as them supporting SH. They clearly say they were taken in by SH along with everyone else. T..."

Their site, their choice. It's our choice if we want to read in something nefarious. There is no reason for them to abandon the time and effort put in to the interviews production. God, the whole world needn't be on lock-step on how they handle this situation, in order to prove they're on the right side of this issue. And gotta say (again) the ever-lengthening 'enemies list' and ever-broadening criteria for becoming one, is disturbing. At what point do we choose to check ourselves and say, this far, is far enough? What is the end goal?

Pendragonish wrote: "God, the whole world needn't be on lock-step on how they handle this situation, in order to prove they're on the right side of this issue. "

+ 1

Everyone can, and will, decide for themselves what they feel is best in their case, for their own reasons. Less than 100% compliance with some groupthink doesn't make someone a bad guy. And others can decide if they want to continue to follow their blog and/or podcast or not.

People thinking for themselves is a good thing.

Pendragonish wrote: "Ariadna wrote: "Pendragonish wrote: "Ariadna wrote: "Fabi wrote: "I read that first thing this morning. I didn't take it as them supporting SH. They clearly say they were taken in by SH along with ..."

I will repeat:

2. Everyone has the option to decide their hard lines and how much they can compromise.

and add that everyone has to deal with consequences (both good and bad) of making said choice.

Sandra wrote: "*~*~*Kael*~*~* wrote: "Josy wrote: "Fabi wrote: "I'm not sure there is any change. I think that's what it said before. .."

I looked the profile up a week ago and it already said gender fluid then...."

Oh I totally hear what you're saying (and the suspicion definitely makes sense), I was just reporting back on what I saw in front of me [see image below], that's all! Aside from that I have absolutely NO clue :-/ o__O!!

I realized that I forgot to update about MXM Bookmarks who publishes Strong Signal in French. They answered my tweet (I asked them if they would make a declaration in regards to Ryptide's decision and the abuse and catfishing - I sent it on Saturday) :

(translations by me)

"Even though it's the weekend, at the moment we're investing all our energy in preparing Paris con. I believe the subject deserves a fuller answer than a tweet written between errands/order preparations. We'll answer, but not here and not now."

Knowing that they were promoting Strong Signal a few weeks ago, there's a big chance that they will have it on their stand next Friday in Paris, and don't want to lose money (I presume).

Which is..... pretty shitty seriously, and a slap in the face of all the people who came forward against Santino Hassell. ESPECIALLY Strong Signal I mean????? UGH. Disgusting.

Alienor ✘ French Frowner ✘ wrote: "I realized that I forgot to update about MXM Bookmarks who publishes Strong Signal in French. They answered my tweet (I asked them if they would make a declaration in regards to Ryptide's decision ..."

Maybe contact Paris-con? In the case of MXM Bookmarks not acting on the SH debacle, maybe Paris-con might?

Pendragonish wrote: “God, the whole world needn't be on lock-step on how they handle this situation, in order to prove they're on the right side of this issue. And gotta say (again) the ever-lengthening 'enemies list' and ever-broadening criteria for becoming one, is disturbing. ..."

Yes, exactly.

Shelby wrote: "Alienor ✘ French Frowner ✘ wrote: "I realized that I forgot to update about MXM Bookmarks who publishes Strong Signal in French. They answered my tweet (I asked them if they would make a declaratio..."

Good idea, I'll try, but I don't have big hopes - they usually let the publishers choose what they promote....

Shelby wrote: "Maybe contact Paris-con? In the case of MXM Bookmarks not acting on the SH debacle, maybe Paris-con might?.."

Do they have twitter? Maybe making it public will be more convincing.

I just emailed Tantor Media at
service@tantor.com and
rights@tantor.com (rights department).

I also emailed audible.de and asked them to look into it or forward it to the appropriate department but they said the publisher has more sway than audible since they are only the distributor.

Josy wrote: "Shelby wrote: "Maybe contact Paris-con? In the case of MXM Bookmarks not acting on the SH debacle, maybe Paris-con might?.."

Do they have twitter? Maybe making it public will be more convincing."

They do. I'll tweet them tomorrow (at this hour nobody will answer). I just tweeted the publisher again to ask if they will promote the book at the con : https://twitter.com/meetbookworld/sta...

Waiting to see if they answer clearly this time.

There's no neutral in this kinda thing. If you're "neutral," you are passively supporting.

Samantha wrote: "There's no neutral in this kinda thing. If you're "neutral," you are passively supporting."

Exactly

Love Tiffany Reisz's work, but don't want to get the full EXPOSED anthology? Good news, everyone! "The Watermark" (Tiffany's contribution) will also be available in an expanded edition as a standalone ebook and paperback later in 2018, under the title PICTURE PERFECT COWBOY (according to her newsletter).

You may want to check with other anthology contributors if they'll be selling their story separately.

Josy wrote: "Speaking of the anthology, there is an author involved who I've heard from another author is in support of everyone who's been hurt by SH. It's Tiffany Reisz and according to the a..."

I have been following this thread, and am disgusted by SH and his cohorts. I have never read SH, so I haven’t commented, but I did want to say something about this.
Andrew Shaffer (@AndrewShaffer) is Tiffany Reisz’ husband. And he has been tweeting about this.

If you are in Australia, I was able to get a refund on all my SH kindle books through amazon au. I had to speak to someone on the phone, but once I explained why I wanted the refunds, they processed immediately.

A commenter on the Riptide discussion I set up on Goodreads said there is no anonymous forum for victims and other concerned individuals to speak up about Riptide.

https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog...

I've set one up. Please go here to comment
https://riptideissues.blogspot.com.au...

No login required, no IP tracking.

Lexxie (un)Conventional Bookviews wrote: "I have been following this thread, and am disgusted by SH and his cohorts. I have never read SH, so I haven’t commented, but I did want to say something about this.
Andrew Shaffer (@AndrewShaffer) is Tiffany Reisz’ husband. And he has been tweeting about this. ..."

Ohhh, I didn't know that. Thank you for the information :)

Ann wrote: "A commenter on the Riptide discussion I set up on Goodreads said there is no anonymous forum for victims and other concerned individuals to speak up about Riptide.

https://www.goodreads.com/author..."

Thank you Ann!!

B4 wrote: "Rose Publishing who publishes Strong Signal in Thai has also gone quite about the whole situation.
This is their twitter https://twitter.com/Rosepublishing1 ..."

Alienor ✘ French Frowner ✘ wrote: "They do. I'll tweet them tomorrow (at this hour nobody will answer). I just tweeted the publisher again to ask if they will promote the book at the con : https://twitter.com/meetbookworld/sta... ..."

Thank you!!

Samantha wrote: "There's no neutral in this kinda thing. If you're "neutral," you are passively supporting."

Jaime wrote: "Samantha wrote: "There's no neutral in this kinda thing. If you're "neutral," you are passively supporting."

Exactly"

Got to say this is pretty much how I feel. I don't see how there can be a neutral stand on someone who has demonstrated the manipulation and potential fraudulent activity this brand name has.

ETA: I recognise that this is a safe space for victims/survivors of the SH debacle and that therefore my comments/views here are unnecessary. I have decided to remove them rather than cause further harm, distress, pain or offence which was never my intention. I am sorry I did not fully appreciate the purpose of this thread before commenting and my thanks to Optimist and others for pointing this out.

Barnes and Noble still has SH's books on sale. I contacted them via customer service yesterday morning, but there is not response. Maybe we need volume?

Reflection wrote: "Surely we are better than this? Is prescribing and prohibiting the choice of what we read and whom we read because we don't approve of an author's /authors' behaviour or belief, is a step too far? "

For me, no. In the same way as I will never read Marion Zimmer Bradley again because of the sexual abuse she and her husband carried out (for which there were prison sentences imposed so not just allegations) so will I never read SH again.

They stole the details of peoples' lives and put them in their books;
they lied about who they are (not an issue to be female writing in the MM world unless you LIE and deliberately portray yourself as a bisexual man);
they encouraged donations of money by falsely claiming to be suffering from liver cancer;
they acted in a sexually predatory fashion against vulnerable people;
they manipulated, bullied and encouraged their followers to act in the same way against anyone they felt was a threat.

And that's just the things the community is actually aware of.

What about the author's/authors' wellbeing is that not important too? Do you not think that someone who is so talented and writes so incredibly well has the ability to learn from their terrible mistakes and to become a better person from it?

This has allegedly been going on for at least 15 years, so no, I don't think they can change.

However, at the end of the day, nothing I or anyone else can say will change someone's mind if they wish to act any differently. It's up to the individual to decide what's appropriate for themselves.

M'rella wrote: "Barnes and Noble still has SH's books on sale. I contacted them via customer service yesterday morning, but there is not response. Maybe we need volume?"

Kobo, too. I think they are the ones that were self-published but I will email them anyway. and Barnes and Noble, too.

Reflection wrote: "I am following this discussion with interest. I'm not sure that I have read everything, because it is very lengthy (and it takes me a long time to read it all, since dyslexia slows me down too).

F..."

Let me ask you 3 things:

1. if YOU had been bullied, harassed and gaslighted for years, would you be comfortable with your perpetrator getting away 'unscathed' and being allowed to continue their career, with no consequenses?
2. if YOU had had your personal and explicit stories, you told to someone you considered a friend, appropriated and sold as original stories, without your knowloedge or okay, how would you feel if your "friend" got away with that, again and again and again? Would you be okay with a person continuing on?
3. should Weinstein just be forgiven and allowed to continue to make movies+++ because they're great movies+++ and because he's talented?

This is not meant as an attack, but should we seriously not consider the victims and the VERY VERY real consequenses this have had for some (and I'm not talking about Scamtino)?!

Posts 2076 & 2078....

Agreed. I'm DEFINITELY on the side of the victims here, and A & M, Vanessa North and Megan Erickson can rot on bookshelves as far as I'm concerned. Harsh maybe, but what they have done is unforgivable, and I would assume most people posting on this thread are of the same opinion.

Thank you, Josy!

Reflection wrote: "I am following this discussion with interest. I'm not sure that I have read everything, because it is very lengthy (and it takes me a long time to read it all, since dyslexia slows me down too).

F..."

"It seems to me that somewhere in this we are forgetting that Santino Hassell (whomsoever that might be) is human too."

But he's not human- Santino Hassell is not a real person.

Cadiva wrote: "I don't see how there can be a neutral stand on someone who has demonstrated the manipulation and potential fraudulent activity this brand name has. "

I understand that perspective. That is quite different from the belief that everyone must be forced to comply and submit 100% to respond and react exactly the way some others think they should.

I think when we're standing up for something we strongly feel is right it can be very easy to start to become very much like the thing we're standing against, if we're not careful.

Reflection wrote: " For the sake of clarity, has anyone recently argued that what Santino Hassell has done is acceptable?"

There have been people who have said on SM that they don't care about the allegations regarding SH because all they want is more SH books. Which is a kind of acceptance that everything Marvin and Alicia have done is OK.

Those "fans" have absolutely no problem with putting their need to be entertained above other people's v. real suffering. Because SH is a "great" and "talented" writer or something.


"The more I read however, the more I wonder, when enough is enough? And what might seem like a satisfactory outcome?"

[...]

"Surely we are better than this? Is prescribing and prohibiting the choice of what we read and whom we read because we don't approve of an author's /authors' behaviour or belief, is a step too far?"

[...]

"Do you believe that they must suffer for the rest of their lives? It is a genuine question."

I singled out those three quotes from your comment because I am 😕 at the (apparent) hand-wringing.

NO ONE is showing up at Marvin and Alicia's home with torches or asking them to go fly into the sun.

It could be that to you and (perhaps) those people who still support SH seeing this many voices condemning SH's actions appear excessive in some way. That it's become a ~Kafkaesque~ mob mentality thing.

Thing is Marvin and Alicia had been running their scams for over 15 years. They lied to and manipulated others: using other people's lives to write SH books, lied and profited from a fake cancer diagnosis, bullied people who had tried to speak up in the past, and had brought in other authors in the M/M romance genre into their schemes (unwillingly or not.)

I'm not going to speak for everyone. Personally, I am happy to see that a lot of doors have closed for Marvin and Alicia. Again, they hurt a lot of people for a long time.

What might seem "too much" to you might never be enough for others.

Also, let me remind you that "Santino Hassell" is not a real person.

JuniperGreen ~✰grumpy old woman in training✰~ wrote: "And from what I read, I strongly suspect a type of personality that's not likely to change their behaviour. Manipulative personalities like this don't change their MO. There is no ability to learn. I think those so-called "apologies" show that very well. There is no actual insight into own mistakes."

I agree.
I think people can learn from their mistakes and become a better version of themselves, but I don't believe this will be the case. The first step is always to take responsibility and acknowledge past mistakes and so far I've seen nothing like that coming from SH.

Changing the subject, I wanted to ask where are we with other publishers and SH future releases, I kind of lost track of which books are still going to be published and which aren't. Did any of the big publishers still involved answer?
If not, what's the "plan"? Do we send emails or what?

Elena wrote: "JuniperGreen ~✰grumpy old woman in training✰~ wrote: "And from what I read, I strongly suspect a type of personality that's not likely to change their behaviour. Manipulative personalities like thi..."

- Riptide dropped the last two books in the Five Boroughs series. SH will be publishing them in serial form on their Patreon (furthering their scam as, each book will end up costing at least $40 by the end of each book);

- Berkley (Intermix) has gone on the record that they won't publish the rest of The Barons novels (there were 2 more planned);

- Piper Vaughn has stated that the Drifting series is cancelled (SH and Piper were going to self-pub at least two books);

- Megan Erickson said on her 3rd statement (posted on March 11th) that the Cyberlove series is over. They had planned for, at least two, maybe three more books.

So far, the only publisher that hasn't said anything is St. Martin's Press. They had signed SH to write an M/F series based on single dads.

Ariadna wrote: "- Berkley (Intermix) has gone on the record that they won't publish the rest of The Barons novels (there were 2 planned);.."

As I understand, it's still unclear if they are going to pull the first two books.


"- Megan Erickson said on her 3rd statement (posted on March 11th) that the Cyberlove series is over. They had planned for, at least two, maybe three more books."

Did she say she's going to pull the books? I think so but I can't find the statement right now.

Tantor Media is still selling all audiobooks. As I understand, the publishers have no control over the audiobooks because they were produced by Tantor. I've emailed them but haven't heard back from them.

edit: I've also twittered the French publisher @MxMBookmark and the Thai publisher https://twitter.com/Rosepublishing1.
Writing the French publisher is important IMO because they are getting ready for Paris Con which starts tomorrow and someone suggested that they might promote Strong Signal there. They said they are busy right now but would look into it after Paris Con. (see #2055)

Reflection wrote: Do you not think that someone who is so talented and writes so incredibly well has the ability to learn from their terrible mistakes and to become a better person from it?

I just want to add something regarding what you wrote there: Of course someone can learn from their mistakes. Of course someone can become a better person from it. Not because they are so talented but because they have reflected on what they have done, they have realized they were wrong (in this case, terribly wrong), they reach those persons who were wronged by their actions and ask for forgiveness. SH has done nothing of the sort. Until then, I've decided I won't give SH the benefit of the doubt.

Josy wrote: "Ariadna wrote: "- Berkley (Intermix) has gone on the record that they won't publish the rest of The Barons novels (there were 2 planned);.."

As I understand, it's still unclear if they are going t..."

ME's own words:

I will be removing the four Cyberlove books from publication on all platforms as soon as possible.

It's all the way at the end of her statement over here. (It took me a while to find it too. No idea why.)

ETA: I edited my comment (no. 2086) to clarify that Berkley/Intermix had 2 more books for The Barons planned.

Also, you are correct. So far, Berkley/Intermix has said nothing on pulling books 1 and 2.