Karen Chance Fans discussion
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Hunt the Moon
The Cassie Books
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Hunt the Moon (Cassandra Palmer #5)
I know, that kind of thing makes me want to punch someone in the face (okay I probably wouldn't really, I'm a very non-violent person) - particularly the way women are treated in Afghanistan and that sort of thing. I suppose it's possible that there's a very small part of Mircea that still thinks that, but I reckon it must be mostly or entirely gone - I mean, he works for the Consul, who makes all the decisions and is scary as fuck! She definitely doesn't need protecting. And he's got to work with plenty of other female senators. I think it might possibly be more to do with Cassie being untrained and human (or so we all thought), so weak, and young and inexperienced. Although I don't know, maybe he might think human women need protecting and vampires are an exception to the rule?
Yeah, that's a fair point. He doesn't seem to treat female vampires differently, but then they aren't really under his 'protection' the way Cassie and Dory are (well, as he sees it, anyway). I wonder how he would treat any female vampires that he had made, since they would be part of his 'family'. I don't know if we've ever heard of female vamps belonging to Mircea, apart from Sal, but she was really Tony's.PS Agree completely about the plight of women in Afghanistan. I try to respect different cultures and don't expect everyone to behave as Western society does, even if their ways are strange to me personally. But keeping 50% of your population as illiterate possessions makes me so angry!
Well what he "sees" he believes. He even told Cassie: “It is not the same! You are this.” He gripped my arms, hard enough to bruise. “You are flesh, soft and sweet and yielding and vulnerable. You need protection, but I can’t—”
Similarly with Dory. I think he trusts Dory a bit more, maybe because she has survived for 500 years, or he has seen her deal with things that were touch first hand (like uncle vlad). But even then he tries to "protect her" by erasing her memory and not giving it back till she got it on her own . . . :::sighs:::
oh I didn't really round out my point LOL. Basically, the outside of Cassie is young soft blonde . . . a young delicate woman. He can't see or understand that Cassie is a LOT more powerful than she appears. Or trips over . . .
Yeah, I suppose from Mircea's POV Cassie IS fragile. He's used to almost indestructible vamps and Cassie is nowhere near as resilient as they are. But he's like an over-protective father with a child. Sometimes you've got to let your kids go their own way, even if you want to keep them close by to 'protect' them.
Lannister wrote: "I wonder how he would treat any female vampires that he had made, since they would be part of his 'family'. I don't know if we've ever heard of female vamps belonging to Mircea, apart from Sal, but she was really Tony's."That's a really good point, actually. We've never seen any female vamps in Mircea's family. Presumably there must be some. But none of Cassie's bodyguards are female, which would rather support the theory that Mircea still has a few old fashioned views on women left over.
And Zeenat, I reckon you're right, Mircea just can't seem to see past Cassie's vulnerable appearance. He trusts Dory a little more from experience, so hopefully he'll update his opinion on Cassie's abilities to survive on her own with time. But then his views on Dory might be because she's half vampire, so stronger, faster and quicker healing than Cassie will ever be, so who knows. I live in hope though.
PS @Lannister: Yeah, I'm mostly in support for letting other places do their own thing according to their customs, which are their own business. But there are instances like this where it just seems so wrong to me. What really gets to me is that isn't not even that they think women can't be intelligent and educated - only a few decades ago women could be university lectures, so they know better than that. They just think that they shouldn't be given education or equal rights. Which I really can't understand.
Lannister wrote: "Yeah, I suppose from Mircea's POV Cassie IS fragile. He's used to almost indestructible vamps and Cassie is nowhere near as resilient as they are. But he's like an over-protective father with a chi..."But that's what's so gross! she's not his kid! Even if he's right about her vulnerability (which I think Cassie has proven resilient in books over and over again), it's not his job to treat her like a child, overprotective or not. lol
Somnium wrote: "We've never seen any female vamps in Mircea's family. Presumably there must be some. But none of Cassie's bodyguards are female, which would rather support the theory that Mircea still has a few old fashioned views on women left over. "I agree, it does. And Cassie definitely thinks that Mircea's attitude is old fashioned. I'm sure there's a quote somewhere where she says Romanian men considered their women less important than their horse, or words to that effect.
You'd think a female body guard would be almost obligatory for when Cassie goes for a bath or goes to Augustine's or something. I dunno what it says about Mircea that he doesn't have one on hand for those occasions.
On the Afghan thing, I suspect it's fear of Western corruption (i.e. women thinking for themselves) that forces these men to keep their women backward. Fear is at the root of a lot of prejudice and intolerance.
You guys have a point that how Mircea enforces his authority with Marco is his business, but in this case Mircea never should have given the order in the first place. And it gets me mad that Cassie won't ever put her foot down. It was a relief to see her finally stand up to him in the London Underground. Obviously it wouldn't be very good reading it Mircea didn't have a few flaws, but that doesn't make it any less infuriating.
I'm really hoping that now that Cassie's beginning to get the hang of standing up to Mircea, she's going to do it more and more. Should make for some interesting scenes down the road!I agree that Mircea's flaws are what make him interesting. It's the fact that he's only infuriating sometimes that make him so much fun. If he was annoying all the time, I'd want to strangle him, but because he mixes up the hot & sexy, with the controlling, with the funny & affectionate, it makes him such a complex, intriguing character. You can never quite figure him out and I think that's a big part of his appeal.
Lannister wrote: "I'm really hoping that now that Cassie's beginning to get the hang of standing up to Mircea, she's going to do it more and more. Should make for some interesting scenes down the road!I agree that..."
I think now that Cassie knows more about her heritage and what she's capable of she won't be content to be ordered around anymore. And since Mircea will certainly not approve of Cassie trekking off to Hell in search of Pritkin, there's going to be a lot defiance in the future!
Yes!! Bring it on, Cassie! It cannot be denied that there is a certain smugness about Mircea sometimes and I really want to see that superior look wiped off his face!
YES. That. I hate it because you can totally tell that Mircea's thinking "Hah! Got you." And I don't mean that I want Cassie to turn into a contrary bitch for no reason, but it would be great to see her stop and consider the consequences of her constant capitulation. Mircea isn't just her lover, he's a politician that would love to control her, and a vampire.
If Mircea didn't have his faults, he'd be a boring vamp. I hate "perfect" vamps, they are so boring!Cassie, Dory, Pritkin and LC have faults too. It's what makes them more "human" and more fun!
Agreed. Perfect characters who succeed all the time are boring. You want your characters to fall flat on their faces sometimes (and Cassie does this quite literally LOL!)
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LOL, yeah, true!
Hahahah it's what makes them fun to read about!
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I love how KC mixes humor into her action scenes. Somehow, instead of making almost dying terrifying, she makes it funny!
I don't know whether anyone has posted about this, but I think Dory will be the 'it' about Cassie and Mircea.When Cassie finds out that Mircea has had a daughter, it will be over. If I know Cassie, she will not forgive him. That will be a line she wouldn't be able to cross.
Meanwhile, concluding HtM, Cassie knows much more about Pritkin than she ever knew of Mircea.
My feelings notwithstanding(team Pritkin all the way), Mircea has screwed himself badly over Cassie. He keeps underestimating her, treating her like a child, and she rolls with it because he protected her as a child.
A side question though: I'm on my re-read of HtM and just read 'the night out of time' when Mircea says that he needed Tony because he had someone with him he needed to take care of. Considering this is barely a few years after he became a vamp, I believe that the one he needed to take care of was Dory. We know Dory's memories have been erased, so I believe this is fairly plausible, right? I just can't think of another person Mircea would need to take care of. I know he probably had Horatiu with him as well, but Horatiu probably wasn't a vampire yet-and pre-vamp Horatiu was a person that didn't need taking care of.
I think Cassie will be understanding of the Dory situation, even though she will be pissed at the beginning. I think what will break them up when Mircea will actually step on her toes as pythia . . . It could be Dory! that would be an interesting twist. I just love how the two storylines are slowly merging.
Zeenat wrote: "I think Cassie will be understanding of the Dory situation, even though she will be pissed at the beginning. I think what will break them up when Mircea will actually step on her toes as pythia . ..."He already does that, I think. The only thing he did for Cassie was taking her to the party so she could see her Mom.
Edit: And no, I will not disregard the many times he had saved her life, the other things he did for her, but all that comes with the price of Cassie's freedom. I cannot accept that, no matter what.
Another side question: If Cassie's human, how can they be married? Mircea marking Cassie only makes me feel like he claimed her as his servant. Unless there's something I'm missing.
He does, but he's been able to explain it away (at least to Cassie's satisfaction). But I'm sure he'll do something that will push her over the edge. Something big, like choosing vampires over mages. Actually, the Pritkin thing might push it over the edge. Mircea and her already disagree about keeping him under employment. I just don't see Cassie breaking up with Mircea over him protecting his daughter. Their world is dangerous . . . now if he doesn't say it's his daughter and she breaks up with him thinking she's something else . . . Mircea just needs to learn to be honest.
I think that if Mircea and Cassie really want to make it work, they will. Whether or not Cassie will want to make it work once she finds out that Mircea was keeping such a crucial piece of information from her is a different question.
I could imagine a situation where Mircea's being Mr Manipulative and really annoying Cassie with his controlling behaviour. Then she finds out that Mircea neglected to mention that he had a kid and it's just the final straw. The issue isn't about Mircea having a daughter. It's just one too many instances of Mircea not opening up to Cassie and not trusting her with the things that are important to HIM, but he expects her to trust him with HER important issues.Even if that doesn't happen, I've no doubt Cassie will be shocked that Mircea has a daughter, not just because it's extremely uncommon in the vamp world. Cassie's probably only heard rumours of crazy murdering dhampirs at Tony's court, so discovering Mircea has one must be a bit of an eye opener. But once she calms down, I really don't see her ending things because of Dory's mere existence. It's surely got to be related to the trust and control issues.
I think how well Cassie takes the fact of Dory's existence depends upon whether or not Cassie knows that Mircea was married. I can't recall if that shows up in the books or not. We all know that Cassie realizes Mircea was never celibate. Who knows, maybe Cassie will be relieved that Dory is Mircea's daughter instead of his girlfriend. She might be able to understand keeping Dory a secret to protect her, given how many people want to kill Dory for existing.
I agree with you, Lannister. If Cassie breaks up with Mircea over this, it's going to be because of trust. I mean, Cassie already thinks that Mircea's cheating on her by keeping an immortal mistress.
Claire wrote: "Who knows, maybe Cassie will be relieved that Dory is Mircea's daughter instead of his girlfriend. She might be able to understand keeping Dory a secret to protect her, given how many people want to kill Dory for existing."That's what I think will happen. I think she'll be furious about the secret keeping . . . but she keeps secrets, too. (What Pritkin is and what she does with him lol). I don't think she gets mad at him for secrets as much as she does about him interfering in her life and her job as Pythia.
But I can see what you guys are seeing. Actually now that I think about it, if I was Cassie I would ask "when you poured your heart out about your family, you didn't think to mention you have a daughter?" lol Of course if I was Cassie I would have kicked him to the curb after I got my fill of toe sucking and hot mircea sex ;)
Of course I didn't mean that Cassie would break things off with Mircea just over Dory's existence. You guys are saying that Mircea wants to protect Dory and that's why he's keeping her a secret-but Cassie is not just anyone, is she? May be she would have been too young to realize the importance of keeping Dory a secret at eleven, but I mentioned the scene in HtM just for that reason-perfect moment to tell Cassie about Dory and tell her it's a secret-though I don't think Mircea would even have to say the words. I don't remember Pritkin saying to Cassie:
"Please, don't tell I'm half-incubus"
Pritkin knew that Cassie will keep his secret, the same way Mircea should have known that Cassie will keep Dory a secret as well.
It will be the thing that will send Cassie over the edge, or in her views, make her realize that even though she's all grown up, and a Pythia, Mircea still doesn't see her as his equal. Always keeping secrets from her, telling her only what she needs to know. Like when her took her on a plane with him[when he had family business], and then simply locking her on the plane and leaving her there just to stop her from going to the meeting with Saunders-not sitting down and having an adult conversation about the situation and if she decided to go-provide her with extra protection.
Zeenat wrote: " Actually now that I think about it, if I was Cassie I would ask "when you poured your heart out about your family, you didn't think to mention you have a daughter?" lol Of course if I was Cassie I would have kicked him to the curb after I got my fill of toe sucking and hot mircea sex ;) "LMFAO at the last line of your comment!!! :D
Agree, though. The fact that Mircea has opened up somewhat, but still neglected to mention Dory is pretty bad. I mean, what's his problem? This is something that happened 500 years ago. It's not like it's a girlfriend from two years ago that he managed to knock up!
Sometimes I think Mircea has got into the habit of being close-mouthed and only dishing out information very much on a 'need-to-know' basis, and he just can't break out of the habit, even when he SHOULD!
I feel bad for Cassie being kept in the dark.
Scarlet wrote: "Of course I didn't mean that Cassie would break things off with Mircea just over Dory's existence. You guys are saying that Mircea wants to protect Dory and that's why he's keeping her a secret-bu..."
Very good points! :)
Lannister wrote: "Sometimes I think Mircea has got into the habit of being close-mouthed and only dishing out information very much on a 'need-to-know' basis, and he just can't break out of the habit, even when he SHOULD! "also a good point. He is kinda old. ;) Set in his ways and all that.
Zeenat wrote: "also a good point. He is kinda old. ;) Set in his ways and all that. "LMAO!! Mircea should definitely be taking things easy at his stage of life, certainly not running around with a hot young blonde! I wonder if they have Viagra for vamps? Mircea might need it. The toe sucking could be to compensate for when he can't always, um, rise to the occasion!! ;)
My cutie Marlowe is younger than Mircea. He's still got some life in him! And LC is practically a baby. I think he's only a couple of hundred years old. Hmmm, does that make Dory a cradle-snatcher, given her age?!
Mod
*clears throat*
You might want to reread his sex scenes, Lannister.
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Ahem... I think dear Lannister, you are forgetting the fact that Vamps can control their bloodflow.. hence they are ALWAYS able to rise to the occassion ;) So no worries, Marlowe is still able to be up to his old tricks (pun intended) :)
If Dory is a Cradle snatcher, what does that make Mircea? Or Pritkin? lol
Pritkin doesn't count, he was in Hell for a decade. It's not his fault that centuries had passed on Earth. I'm a little shaky on details, but that would make him younger than Mircea. :D
True but Pritkin is still way older than Cassie
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LOL I hope KC uses that phrase in one of her coming books, I'd looove to see how they would react to it! XD
I thought LC was about 400? So not too much younger than Marlowe.I also second what Lannister said, Mircea's just in the habit of only telling people what they need to know when they have to know it. Being secretive and giving out information for a price is just part of his normal life. It's something he really needs to change.
And whilst I can see Cassie being pissed at Mircea for never telling her about Dory, I can't see her breaking up with him about it unless it's in conjunction with a lot of other issues. I can't see it being the only factor. But if it was just one more thing in a list of problems, I can see it being a tipping point where she just decides that that's enough and leaves.
It should make the next meeting between Cassie and Dory fun.
I could see there being some sort of showdown between the two, because Cassie thinks Dory's just some bimbo and Dory thinks that Cassie's a crazy witch. I think Cassie finally realized that she loves Mircea. I don't see her giving up on him easily after she's already lost so many people.
LOL I can see them both arguing, then Mircea coming in and explaining things--then both of them being mad at Mircea!
Didn't KC say there were going to be repercussions in the next Cassie book from THAT scene (remember our spoiler policy is still in place!) I don't think repercussions sounds good. I think Cassie might realise that it's actually Pritkin she loves! (Sorry Claire!)I like the idea of them both being mad at Mircea though. I would encourage that LMAO!
I imagine a double glare from the two women he loves, ROFL. I can imagine him backing up slowly from them LOL
I like to think of him drowning his sorrows at a seedy bar somewhere, complaining to the barkeep about the fickleness of women!! It's such an un-Mircea image LOL!
I absolutely LOVE that image!! And THENNNN Cassie steps in and declares her undying live for him AND pritkin too!!! Andddd they find a way to make it work somehow!!
Like a timeshare plan LMAO!
Yes, good. That's exactly what Cassie should do.
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Books mentioned in this topic
Midnight's Daughter (other topics)Death's Mistress (other topics)
Claimed by Shadow (other topics)
Claimed by Shadow (other topics)
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Yeah, that's a really good point. Mircea wants Cassie to sit in her gilded cage surrounded by vamp bodyguards and only do her job when the vamps want her to. And only make decisions that have been pre-approved by the Senate. No wonder Cassie rebelled!
I was reminded of something in the Death's Mistress re-read (which seems to have died a death *sad*) but Dory talked about women's roles in ancient Romanian society. She said:Man, even just reading that makes my blood boil!!
Now I know Mircea said he liked Dory's mother because she wasn't as passive as other women, but that's the attitude he would have been taught as a child, and sometimes it's hard to shake off beliefs instilled when you were young. I wonder if he still harbours an old-fashioned belief that women must be protected and aren't quite capable of making decisions for themselves. It could explain a lot of his control freakery and arguments with Dory too.