Twilight
discussion
What's so bad about being a Twilight Fanatic?
Gloria wrote: "i love twilight, i dont get why people hate it so badly, without twilight being released we
never would've had more vampires and werewolves books out now to read. Twilight was like such a huge phe..."
Yes we have more vampire and werewolf stuff but all of it is mass market, talentless cr*p. Publishers will publish anything these days if they think it will sell even if the quality is way below acceptable.
Nearly everything published after twilight isn't worth reading and as someone who';s been a big vampire fan for ages I can't stand all this rubbish that's being published. A lot of it should have been sent back to be edited and reviewed and then it would actually be GOOD, but the level of quality these days is terrible.
Gloria wrote: "i love twilight, i dont get why people hate it so badly, without twilight being released we
never would've had more vampires and werewolves books out now to read. Twilight was like such a huge phe..."
If Twilight wasn't released we wouldn't have had the vampire sub-genre butchered. Also don't get me started on the films, we already have enough Hollywood trash on the screens.
Twilights did not bring books to life, Rowling did that years ago. If anything it killed the intergity of an entire genre. Murdered even. Until "Dark Romance/Fantasy" (or whatever genre they came up with) hit the bookstores it used to be mixed with the likes of King and Rice. Shameful.
I think one of the biggest problems with some of the twihards is actually how the haters react to them. Yes, some Twilight fans are really scary at times, but I'd rather deal with a twihard than a hater because they're at least saying that they're enjoying their time. I admit, I'm not a huge fan, no where near a twihard, but I find it hard to talk to some of these girls who are so obsessed with it because they can't take a joke. A friend and I joke about how Edward has "gills" (his shirt collar pops up and down through the entire movie), but if I said that in front of certain Twilight fans, I'd be mugged for even SUGGESTING the appalling fact that Edward is half fish without giving me the chance to explain it. They can become really defensive without letting others a chance to explain their thoughts. But, every fandom has these kind of fans, it's just that twihards are so stereotyped that we hear about them more. That, and the series was built up over a short period of time. Series like that tend to get a lot of hype and then suddenly die off (such as the Uglies series-- anyone read those? Remember how popular THOSE books were?). Not always the case, but a fact none-the-less.
Anyways.... long comment over. Sorry it was so long.
Trollworth wrote: "Gloria wrote: "i love twilight, i dont get why people hate it so badly, without twilight being released we
never would've had more vampires and werewolves books out now to read. Twilight was like ..."
Geesh, don't be so harsh.
I understand your opinion and respect you for it. but dang!
Twilight didn't ruin the genre. It just expanded it. For some people, for the better, for some for the worse. Open your mind a little, If you don't like it fine. The other vampire books that have come along probably would have still been written even if Twilight was released. If you don't like it so much, why do you continue to discuss it? Just curious.
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The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears
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@Lindis: You're probably right about vampire books existing even without Twilight. As I've said before, the YA paranormal genre is simply copying its more adult counterpart. What bothers me is the standard for decent writing and characterization has been set so low because of Twilight, but I don't just blame the authors. I blame the entire publishing industry jumping on the bandwagon to see who can out-Twilight Twilight. The genre has suffered. In fact, YA has become kind of a joke (albeit a lucrative one), which is sad because there are some incredibly talented authors with engaging stories who are being overlooked.
Lindis wrote: "Trollworth wrote: "Gloria wrote: "i love twilight, i dont get why people hate it so badly, without twilight being released we
never would've had more vampires and werewolves books out now to rea..."
Expansion doesn't mean 'good'. Expanding the genre like Vixenne has only destroyed the quality of the product. As for my mind, it is wide open. I see what Twilight really is. Thematically, the book is outrageous, especially to a young audience. Why do I continue to discuss? I'm a Troll trollin'.
Vixenne wrote: "@Lindis: You're probably right about vampire books existing even without Twilight. As I've said before, the YA paranormal genre is simply copying its more adult counterpart. What bothers me is th..."Okay, I see your point. Well said. Can't say that I agree with all of it, but I understand it. I see what you're saying about the publishers. They are truly all about the money!
I really enjoyed The Twilight Saga, and to be honest it did make me a bit crazy as I was reading them. I read the entire series two times in a row, and then a few times after that, and then read the first book in German too haha. They are a great love story, and before all these other vampire books made it big, it was an original story I thought. I had never read anything like it!These books did something to me, I was sleeping walking when I read them! I am not even kidding! And I don't even sleep walk normally! It was soooo weird!
The Romance Bookie wrote: "I really enjoyed The Twilight Saga, and to be honest it did make me a bit crazy as I was reading them. I read the entire series two times in a row, and then a few times after that, and then read t..."Umm sorry to burst your bubble but the story isnt original. Basically a toned down version of True Blood which was published in 2001 when Twilight was published in 2005. Hell Vampire Diaries was published in the early 90's and its basically the same thing. So she's ripped off every other vampire romance.
Trollworth wrote: "The Romance Bookie wrote: "I really enjoyed The Twilight Saga, and to be honest it did make me a bit crazy as I was reading them. I read the entire series two times in a row, and then a few times ..."Actually, I really don't understand how people can draw a comparison between True Blood and Twilight. The universes and characters are completely different. In the True Blood world, vampires are "out of the coffin," and the characters act accordingly. In Twilight's world, vampires have to hide because they sparkle. I can KIND OF (but barely) see what the plots may have in common--Girl meets vampire--vampire meets girl--they fall in love--girl in danger--villain dies. BUT the way they get there is completely different. Bella fawns over Edward, Bella stalks Edward, Edward stalks Bella, they fall in love (and I use that term loosely), random antagonist comes in, Bella near death and cryingggg, Edward saves her, the end. True Blood's is like Sookie meet Bill, Sookie saves Bill, Bill saves Sookie, an unknown murderer is hunting after Sookie, Sookie gets introduced to the vampire world, Sookie gets hunted by killer, Sookie kills killer, the end. VASTLY different, imo.
Still, I don't think the idea of Twilight is very original. Authors have just about beaten the idea of forbidden love with vampires to death way before Twilight premiered. Nothing in this book is very original other than the baby eating itself out of a womb and having the vampires sparkle (both of which, shouldn't really happen. The former because Vampires are dead and therefore don't have living sperm--or any sperm for that matter, and the latter because, well...obvious answer)
Yeah, sorry to burst your bubble, Trollworth, you can't say that Twilight, True Blood and Vampire Diaries are basically the same story.The only thing that they have in common is Human Girl falls in love with Vampire boy. That's it!
Girl: TW = Human girl becomes vampire. Teenager. VD = The books and the show are so different, so I'm not sure which one you're using, but girl does become vamp in books, not in show. Teenager. TB = Human girl isn't even really human, she's Fae, at least in the show, I'm only on book three, so I can't say about that. Adult Woman.
Vampires: TW = Sparkle, don't burn in sun, feed on animals. And like Torie said, not out in the open. VD = Will burn in the sun, unless wearing a charmed object, ring or necklace etc. by a witch in sun, but the books are different. Not out in the open, only known by a few. TB = Totally will burn up in the sun! Unless they drink Fae blood, can drink synthetic blood. Live out in the open.
I think that when she said "original" that she meant the fact that they sparkle, and they don't burn up in the sun, they live as a strong family. Their are lots of other examples that I and others could give you, but I don't think you want to hear it.
Trollworth wrote: "Lindis wrote: "Trollworth wrote: "Gloria wrote: "i love twilight, i dont get why people hate it so badly, without twilight being released we
never would've had more vampires and werewolves books o..."
Exactly, why are you discussing this? You aren't going to change our minds. We like it, get over it.
I understand that you don't like it, and that's okay. I have come to understand why alot of people don't. So many reasons, but we still like it. And there is nothing wrong with that!!!!
Okay, trollworth, I looked at the kinds of books you have read, and I'm sure that you have read more than twenty. Some people don't have the time to enter everything that they have read. But, you haven't even read Twilight, Sookie Stackhouse, or Vampire Diaries. Am I wrong? Please correct me if I am. If you are going by what you have seen in movies or TV shows, then you are misinformed. There isn't much difference between Twilight and the movies. But, Vampire Diaries and True Blood are pretty different than the books they came from. I can tell that this subject is upsetting you, so why do you continue? I admire the types of books that you have read. I have one or two of the same you have, or from the same authors. One is even on my to-read list. I can't wait to see how much different the DaVinci Code is from the movie. I know that I liked Angels and Demons so much more than the movie. Same with The Shining.
Yeah, that's what I thought too with Vampire Diaries being different. Of course there are the similarities that vampire falls in love with human, but the Vampire Diary books are WAYYYYY different than the show. In fact, I thought the show sort of ripped off Twilight, because the story was so alike, and it almost seemed as if the network just wanted to keep up with the fandom of twilight. I know not many agree that Twilight was original, I had never read a vampire book before that series, only afterwards did I read Vampire Diaries. But the vampire diaries show really disappointed me.Everyone has there own opinion, I completely respect that! I just don't appreciate when some says, "Sorry to burst your bubble", I think thats rude and puts down people, because unless I know you and you say it sarcastically it comes off kind of mean. I really don't want to offend anyone! My upper comment was just my opinion, and I thought that's why this entry was made, to state your opinion, and I didn't even say anything mean.
The Romance Bookie wrote: "Yeah, that's what I thought too with Vampire Diaries being different. Of course there are the similarities that vampire falls in love with human, but the Vampire Diary books are WAYYYYY different ..."I know, I try to be "nice" as well. That's why I always say that I respect others opinion, because I do! But that troll guy was starting to act like a troll. So I felt like I needed to defend my self, and others. Don't worry, you're fine! : )
Yeah, as far as Vampire Diaries, the books and the show are VERY different. But I find myself liking them both. It's been a while since I've read the books, and I haven't read them all. They're on my to-read list. So many books so little time!!!!!!
Lindis wrote: "The Romance Bookie wrote: "Yeah, that's what I thought too with Vampire Diaries being different. Of course there are the similarities that vampire falls in love with human, but the Vampire Diary b..."Yeah I know exactly what you mean! :) And I definitely meant "Troll" guy haha, not you. It bugs me when people start putting others down, of course I will defend myself on whoever gets attacked. It's the starters that can be the problem.
The Romance Bookie wrote: "Lindis wrote: "The Romance Bookie wrote: "Yeah, that's what I thought too with Vampire Diaries being different. Of course there are the similarities that vampire falls in love with human, but the ..."LOL!!! You go girl! : )
Lindis wrote: But that troll guy was starting to act like a troll....
u mad?
My girlfriend is a massive twilight fan. She said to me once..."Why can't you be more like Edward?".
So I said, "Sure, lets break up since you're far to old for me. I need a girl who I can control because she idolises me. We can never have sex no matter how much she wants it because I want her to need me all the time. I'll treat her like a child and protect her from the big bad world and never let her make her own decisions because come on, that would be daft, she can't have independence? Right? After months of sexual torment we'll finally have a daughter and let my rival fall in love with her."
She never mentioned that again. Funny that :>
Trollworth wrote: "Lindis wrote: But that troll guy was starting to act like a troll....
u mad?"
No not mad. You just need to state your opinion without being so negative towards the readers themselves, aim it at the books. Be careful how you say things "I hate to burst your bubble" tends to hurt, or it give you the impression that you think you're superior, to others. I guess I'm just trying to give you advice. I've had to learn the hard way here on goodreads. The good thing about a site like this is that, since you aren't saying these things face to face with people, you feel more free to say what comes to your mind. But on the other hand, what you say, can be taken many different ways. I spend alot of time re-reading what I have said before I post it, or editing aftwards, to make sure I'm being kind. Sometimes I have to back and apologise, or change the way I've said something. Cauz no body's perfect! : )
Now I do know, that their are ALOT of dim-witted Twilight fans out there, but remember when it comes to books as popular as Twilight, there are all kinds of fans. With Twilight, there is a large amount of level-headed, intellegent, strong women that love it just for the awesome love story that it is.
And when you are talking about someting as well loved as Twilight, you'd better come prepared. (try reading it) It's the same way with Rowling fans, Toliken fans, and many other authors.
And since you haven't read the books, prepare to be contradicted. lol And I'm sure that you can handle it. Just try not to sound mean, or belittling. Thanks. I take it you are kinda like me, you like to argue? : ) for fun!
Lindis wrote: "Trollworth wrote: "Lindis wrote: But that troll guy was starting to act like a troll....
u mad?"
No not mad. You just need to state your opinion without being so negative towards the read..."
*applause*
Most people who dislike Twilight don't realize that the majority of us are just your average person. Not crazy, not obsessed.
If anyone wants to see if I read other stuff, my shelves are open. Unlike some! ;-)
Trollworth wrote: "My girlfriend is a massive twilight fan. She said to me once..."Why can't you be more like Edward?".
So I said, "Sure, lets break up since you're far to old for me. I need a girl who I can control..."
Now comes the contradiction.
I disagree witht the way you see Edward and Bella.
The break-up comment was funny. : ) kudos to you!
BUT, First: Control - Edward does not control Bella. Sure he does alot of things to protect her without her knowledge, but that happens all the time in relationships. There are so many times that Bella goes off and does what she wants. Sometimes Edward knows, like when she goes to see Jacob, against his wishes. And Sometimes he dosen't know, like when she sneeks off to visit Jacob. And in Breaking Dawn, she does a whole lot of stuff behind his back. He suspects that she is up to something, but he chooses to trust her. (ask your girlfriend about it) He is always bending to what she wants. He spoils her, not controls her. If he had things his way "control" Renesmee would never have been born! He wanted to kill the baby. In Eclipse, would he have LET her kiss Jacob is he was "controling" her??? I think not!
Second: Sex - They had pleanty of sex AFTER they were married, which is the way things are supposed to be done. Maybe your girlfriend just wants you to marry her? (oops, hope I didn't start a fight)
Third: Protection - This is what every woman wants from their man. I know that my husband will protect me from any harm, even if it means sacraficing his own life. It's part of man's commitment to woman. Most of us like it. I know that some women don't like it, and there is such a thing as OVER protection, but if my man's idea of protection is to buy me a kick ass car, I say "OH YEAH!!!" First our fathers protected us, then it becomes our MAN's responsibility.
Forth: Independence - This kind of goes along with the control. See "First" section. Bella has pleanty of independence. She CHOOSES to be with Edward. There's nothing wrong with that. She still get's to go to college like SHE planned to do. And she does tons of things that Edward doesn't want her to do.
Fifth: Let his rival fall in love with her? Like he had a choice. Jacob fell in love with Bella before he ever knew about Edward. Before Edward ever knew that Jacob was in the picture. That happens all the time. I bet their are several other guys that look at your gal, and you don't even know it. : )
Is your girlfriend on goodreads? I think I need to be her friend! : ) he he he You go girl! Keep on lovin' Twilight!
Any other questions that you have about Twilight?
Now, of course, this is all my opinion, the way that I see the story and the charachters. So, I know that several others will disagree with me, but equally, several will agree. Happy reading y'all!!!! : )
as some people might disagree with me i have to get this off my chest,its not that twilight is horrible i mean if you really think about it its really not that bad of a story wether its one of my favs im not so sure but i can say that twilight did bring up alot more books out there they were always there to begin with though just twilight made them more popular. and wether the story was good or bad twilight did inspire a lot of authors to write books and it brought a lot more new books for us some even becoming movies.so wether it was in a good way or a bad way twilight did effect the book and movie world.so cant we just agree to disagree.
Caroline C. wrote: "as some people might disagree with me i have to get this off my chest,its not that twilight is horrible i mean if you really think about it its really not that bad of a story wether its one of my f..."Well said, I totally agree with you.
Lindis wrote: "I am starting this chat because I am wondering why people are so upset about the "Twilight Rage" I happen to be a "Twilighter" I love the books, I love the story, I wish I could be a Cullen! And I'..."i hear you lindis, i dont get it either. We shouldnt be quick to judge people by what they like or adore.
Me and my sister love twilight and we both are into edward and jake. I am not worried to say the twilight saga got me back into reading books and now i read many forms of the paranormal or fantasy stuff. Even when my tutor said i should be reading other styles of books i was like i am an adult i read many styles of authors so why do i need to read other styles of books.
people are so judgemental hey.
Oof. That post was riddled with sentences that made my head want to implode.Lindis said: "First: Control - Edward does not control Bella. Sure he does alot of things to protect her without her knowledge, but that happens all the time in relationships....In Eclipse, would he have LET her kiss Jacob is he was "controling" her??? I think not!"
Imho, this is all kinds of wrong. "Sure he does a lot of things to protect her without her knowledge, but that happens all the time in relationships." Okay, that may happen sometimes in some peoples' relationships, but it doesn't mean it's necessarily right. If I found out my boyfriend was going behind my back to take the ENGINE out of my car, so I couldn't drive somewhere, I would flip my shit that he was so controlling. I don't care if he did it because he thought he was protecting me--there's a difference between wanting the best for me, and giving me no other option than to do what HE thinks is best for me.
Lindis said: "Second: Sex - They had pleanty of sex AFTER they were married, which is the way things are supposed to be done. Maybe your girlfriend just wants you to marry her? (oops, hope I didn't start a fight)"
Ugh. After the sexual revolution in the late sixties, early seventies, not everyone thinks this way anymore. This can totally be argued about how ways "are supposed to be done." Not all of us are traditionalist conservatives.
Lindis said: "Third: Protection - This is what every woman wants from their man. I know that my husband will protect me from any harm, even if it means sacraficing his own life. It's part of man's commitment to woman. Most of us like it. I know that some women don't like it, and there is such a thing as OVER protection, but if my man's idea of protection is to buy me a kick ass car, I say "OH YEAH!!!" First our fathers protected us, then it becomes our MAN's responsibility."
Yes, I like to feel protected, but I'm not going to totally depend on my man to fight all my battles for me. This is what Vixenne meant by this book being regressive, not progressive. It's painful to read that people feel this way--that we need a man by our side to protect little ol' females from the world. I'm perfectly fine with or without my boyfriend--I don't need him to protect me "as my father did." What I'd rather have in my partner, is not someone to "take on the duties of my father" (weird!), but a lover and an equal. You may see it as "part of man's commitment to his woman," but I don't see why we can't fend for ourselves, or hey, protect them, too?
I kind of feel like I'm watching/reading those interviews when women were fighting for their rights in the twentieth century and there were those mass amounts of housewives who said, "Why give women rights? We should stay inside the house where we belong and let the men work while we take care of the children."
Bella is so wholly dependent on Edward that she lays in the mud in a forest and cries when he leaves her. She leaps to her death thinking Edward will come save her! If a bad guy comes--OH MY GOD WHERE IS EDWARD SAAAAAAAAVE MEEEEEE! This book is teaching young girls to not only completely depend upon a man to save them for every cut, scratch and bother they have--it teaches them to be weak, that the only goal they should ever have is to obtain a man (A hot one, preferably, LIKE EDWARD <333) and try their best to shag him (and if he'd rather get married first--even though you're only seventeen--DO IT! DO ITTTTTTTT! Throw that small nagging voice at the back of your head that says, "Dude, you JUST went through puberty and now you're going to get married?" away and get married to a man more than FIVE times your age, so you can shag him and be with him forever!)
Twilight is a guilty pleasure book, which means lovers gonna love and haters are gonna hate.
Hannah wrote: "Twilight is a guilty pleasure book, which means lovers gonna love and haters are gonna hate."EXACTLY!
haha See, Aya and Brook have just proven my point. I myself have a love/hate relationship. I know that it's bad, but it's a guilty pleasure, so I can't help but love it (and sometimes I hate the fact that I enjoy it so much, but hey, I get a good laugh out of it.)
Torie wrote: "Oof. That post was riddled with sentences that made my head want to implode.Lindis said: "First: Control - Edward does not control Bella. Sure he does alot of things to protect her without he..."
Oh, careful, sweetie. A couple of your comments were a tiny too close to getting personal. Now, I love Twilight, and I'm definitely more liberal than Mrs. Meyer (and maybe Lindis, although we don't know each other at all). So let me provide rebuttal with some of my observations.
1. CONTROL. Yup, for the first 1/3 of Eclipse, Edward is a big ol' 1910s macho jerk. But, he does redeem himself at that point, realizing he has been acting like a caveman. Edward tells Bella (total paraphrase here), “my dislike of Jacob is based on my prejudices against werewolves, I know. I don’t trust him, but I do trust you. So I have to be okay with you believing that you are safe with Jacob.” He then goes on to ask for a compromise (big revelation for a guy born in 1901): if he can drive her to the reserve boarder, then can she have Jacob drive her to La Push? This scene is one reason why I am Team Edward. Even though he is forever frozen at 17, he is still able to mature and grow emotionally. And learn that what he thought was right may not be so.
Let’s face it: there is an evil, nearly indestructible serial killer vampire after Bella (Victoria, a kick a** chick in her own right!). Had Victoria been human, than Edward really would have had no cause to worry about Bella as much as he does. But he can’t just turn this over to her dad, Charlie. Humans have no defence against vampires. Only werewolves and other vampires can go up against Victoria.
2. SEX. Turn on the TV, open any magazine, and we all see the sexuality that is forever being beaten into the minds of teens and pre-teens every day. The pressure to have sex is constant. It is no longer unusual for a 14-year-old to give birth. Now, four books aren’t going to make an entire generation of teens sexual prudes, but if it makes some of them give it some serious thought because Bella and Edward waited, then maybe it isn’t such a bad thing. Edward’s cool (and a hot teen), so can waiting until you are 17 be a bad thing?
3. PROTECTION. I always saw it as Edward was over-protective not because he was the man but because he was the vampire (see kick-a** impervious vampire chick in #1). There is a chapter in Eclipse where Bella stays at the Cullen house with Alice and Rosalie, two awesome invulnerable vampire women in their own right. It, to me, has nothing to do with Bella’s gender, but has everything to do with her species. It is so easy for a vampire to kill a human that the ever-worried Edward insists that there is always another vampire or werewolf to watch over Bella.
4. INDEPENDANCE. I really wish that Bella was more of a team player. Whenever Edward makes a suggestion that someone do something for her (him buying her something, Alice throwing her a party, Jacob making sure she doesn’t get eaten by Victoria), she balks at it, and Edward ends up cajoling her into it (usually by pointing out reason). Even her decision to become a vampire and join the Cullens is more about her expressing her own desires than just being with Edward.
Bella does not fit in the human world. She doesn’t have a connection with her friends, her relationships with her parents are close but not tight, she is clumsy as a human to the point of ridiculousness. But being a vampire fits for her. It just makes sense and she feels that this life is how she was meant to be. And, she has found her soul mate in this life. So it isn’t just a guy that she mourns in New Moon, but the life that she has chosen (much to Edward’s chagrin) for herself. And she does mourn, but she doesn’t totally give up. We see that when she is with Jacob. But still, she is the same human, and without the people she loves the most (even though she cares deeply for her dad and Jacob).
5. RENESMEE. I know a lot of Twilighters question my view on this, but I really believe that Jacob and Bella’s feelings for one another were somewhat mixed in with fate (or call it what you will) that Rensemee and Jacob should be together. The biggest hint is that when Bella sees him in Breaking Dawn after Renesmee is born, she notices that all she feels for him is friendship. “Just as it should be.”
Again, just my two cents (or two bucks, looking at how long this is!).
People "love to hate" the Twilight series because when you look beyond the admittedly cheesy sparkly vampire stuff, it's fundamentally a very old fashioned story about love, destiny and moral choices. Therefore, not "deep" or "cool" or "postmodern." Also, many people take everything literally because they don't appreciate the Romantic style of storytelling, with a lot of symbolism and larger than life characters. I'm an adult and a proud fan. If people choose to dismiss the series to feel better about their coolness, it's their loss.
Torie wrote: "Oof. That post was riddled with sentences that made my head want to implode.Lindis said: "First: Control - Edward does not control Bella. Sure he does alot of things to protect her without he..."
Wow you just took everything that I said and took it WAY out there. I also said that it was MY OPINION! I didn't say that I was right or wrong.
I admire you for your strength and independence. The world does need independent and powerful women. BUT there is nothing wrong with anything that I said, and I stand by it. You act all superior and that everything that I said is wrong, well it's not!
IT'S MY OPINION!!! And I'm entitled to it! I don't appriciate you trying to belittle me for it.
I completely understand what you are saying, I just don't agree with it. And you should try to be a little nicer when you reply. My comments were directed at trollworth and I was playing with him. I'm sorry if I offended you. Dang!
AlbertaJenn wrote: "Torie wrote: "Oof. That post was riddled with sentences that made my head want to implode.Lindis said: "First: Control - Edward does not control Bella. Sure he does alot of things to protect ..."
I love everything that you said. And I think that you actually proved some of my points. Torie just took the things that I said at trollworth a little too far or maybe personally. They were directed at him, that's why I did it as a reply and not a new post. Some of the things that I said were meant to "play" with him. and I hope he knows that. If you're reading now, Trollworth, my intention was teasing, not malicious. Like I just told Torie, It's my OPINION. I never said, this is correct this is right!
AlbertaJenn wrote:"Oh, careful, sweetie. A couple of your comments were a tiny too close to getting personal. Now, I love Twilight, and I'm definitely more liberal than Mrs. Meyer (and maybe Lindis, although we don't know each other at all). So let me provide rebuttal with some of my observations. "LOL. Okay. I WHOLE-HEARTEDLY apologize if my arguments came off as too personal, belittling or "all superior." I didn't intend it to come off as such, but it probably did and I'm sorry. But if we're going to talk about manners, please don't address me as "sweetie." You might have meant it as a term of endearment (I don't think so), but it reads, at least to me, as condescension.
Lindis wrote: "I completely understand what you are saying, I just don't agree with it...My comments were directed at trollworth and I was playing with him. I'm sorry if I offended you. Dang!"
And I also didn't agree with you, but I understand what you're saying. I'm merely putting my own opinion out there in concern to what you're saying. I know you didn't intend to be malicious, and I didn't take it as such. The end part of my argument was making fun of the book more than anything else. I didn't intend to point it at you and I'm sorry if you thought so.
Le sigh. In response to Edward's abusive, over-controlling, overly possessive qualities, here's a thorough argument supplemented with examples that expounds upon HOW he's abusive: http://applesparkles.wikia.com/wiki/Z...!!
and this lovely gem:
http://vampirely.wordpress.com/2009/0...
So sue me! I'm too lazy to throw examples your way.
AlbertaJenn wrote: "2. SEX. Turn on the TV, open any magazine, and we all see the sexuality that is forever being beaten into the minds of teens and pre-teens every day. The pressure to have sex is constant. It is no longer unusual for a 14-year-old to give birth. Now, four books aren’t going to make an entire generation of teens sexual prudes, but if it makes some of them give it some serious thought because Bella and Edward waited, then maybe it isn’t such a bad thing. Edward’s cool (and a hot teen), so can waiting until you are 17 be a bad thing? "
Interesting idea, and while I understand your argument and am kind of behind you on it, Twilight doesn't just have these two kids waiting until after marriage to have sex, they have these two horny characters saddle up for marriage BECAUSE they want to have sex. The reasons for proposing marriage are totally wrong.
And I agree with you--it also annoyed me how Bella was so turned off by all the nice gestures the Cullens threw at her (I'd take a car! Shiet!). And you put up an interesting argument concerning why she makes the choices she does, but just because she doesn't fit in, doesn't mean she has to be goalless. I can see the reasons why she'd want to turn into a vampire, but most of the book focuses primarily on her chasing boys. All her thoughts are swallowed by either Edward or Jacob, and she doesn't really concern herself with anything else. I guess this is reflective of the teen girl culture (boy-crazy!), but paired with the fact that she is a weak, wholly dependent on a man, and lacks any form of personality, makes her a wholly dislikable character and a terrible heroine--at least imo.
Anyway, I tried to play nicer this time. I hope I did well. These responses are getting to look like essaysssss
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The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears
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I am really fascinated as to how people can view the Twilight series so very differently. Then again, reading is subjective. Fantasy and science-fiction are the two genres I have always loved with a passion, so I'm more used to strong and savvy heroines who DO things rather than wait around for things to happen. I freely admit to coming into the romance genre fairly late in the game, but even then, the books that resonate the most with me feature strong heroines, regardless of time period. I love my alpha females, LOL.The only thing I can say in Bella's defense is that she has no idea what a healthy relationship should entail because she practically raised her divorced parents. First her flighty mother, then her somewhat distant father who tries too hard to be a disciplinarian when he's been absent for most of her life. No wonder she's looking for love and for someone to take care of her.
Say what you will, but a man who takes the engine out of a car to keep his girlfriend/wife from going anywhere isn't doing so out of LOVE (unless he's a freaking mechanic and the car is being repaired). And frankly, Bella should have been allowed to do stupid things without Edward having to "protect" her at nearly every turn. That's how a character (if they're well-written) GROW. They learn from their mistakes. Either that or they become vampire-bait.
I did like Victoria though. I can't see her allowing Edward to tell her what to do, LOL.
Okay, that makes me feel better too. Sorry about my tantrum as well. : ) Yes you did well. It just blows my mind how there are so many different perspectives with these books. Maybe Meyer is a better writer that some give her credit for. (I'll probably pay for that comment too) I'll have to look at some other feeds if I get bored. I know that the Potter feeds don't get quite this passionate. (sometimes they do) I'm wondering if the Tolkien, Brown, or Chriton (or others) discussions get this heated?
I've heard Tolkien fans are quite passionate. And Brown and Chriton, they write about things that really can get contraversal (sp?), religion or science. I'd hate to be in those groups! : )
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The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears
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@Lindis: I can answer the Tolkien question. YES!!! Tolkien's been accused of everything from sexism to racism to ageism to being a closet pagan (he was actually Anglican, but his best friend and fellow author C.S. Lewis was agnostic for quite some time until he had an epiphany), to hating people with big feet, LOL.
"Interesting idea, and while I understand your argument and am kind of behind you on it, Twilight doesn't just have these two kids waiting until after marriage to have sex, they have these two horny characters saddle up for marriage BECAUSE they want to have sex. The reasons for proposing marriage are totally wrong."Torie, I like how you said this, but see how there are several ways to look at this subject? Edward was "old school" and didn't want to have sex until they were married. And that's really a good thing. And I agree that that is REALLY bad, if that is the only reason you are getting married. But you can't deny, in this story, their love for each other. And that even though, sex may be a motovation to get married sooner rather than later, theirs is a relationship that will last. No matter when they get married. I guess we just have to hope that young people realize that. I know that some won't.
And in saying this, I want to state that I really am not all that conservative, I don't live in a bubble. I've even been called a bible beater for saying "That's the way it should be" before. And I'm not naieve either. I know that teens have sex. I work in a middle school and have two teenagers of my own. AND I had my daughter before I married her father. We are still happily married. BUT I do wish that things had turned out different. Marriage, then kid. : ) I don't really know why I felt the need to tell you all that, but I guess I just want you to understand me a little more. I'm sure it will come back to bite me in the butt! : )
Lindis wrote: "But you can't deny, in this story, their love for each other. " LOL. I actually do deny it. To me, what they have is merely infatuation. They lust after one another and don't have anything substantial. They don't have anything in common and it seems, Bella is simply enamored by him because he is popular, handsome, rich, and perfect. She doesn't really talk about anything else in the book other than his looks. This is the case with Edward as well. He seems to only like her because she's pretty, she smells good (freesia!), and he can't read her thoughts. I never really saw any reasons why they fell in love and they never had any real conversations with one another.
Vixenne wrote: "I am really fascinated as to how people can view the Twilight series so very differently. Then again, reading is subjective. Fantasy and science-fiction are the two genres I have always loved wit..."Oh you're spot on with the way that Bella grew up!
And I actually did forget about Edward disabling her engine. I would have gone off on him for that too. But like you said, he learned from his mistake.
And your statement about Victoria. That is one thing that Bella will become after she is turned. In Meyers "Guide to Twilight" book, we learn that (in her vampire world) vampires pretty much mate for life. Victoria was out for revenge for her mate, James and she obviously did anything and everything to complete her goal. So, even though Bella wanted to marry Edward "just for the sex" (he he he) Their relationship really would have been forever.
Vixenne wrote: "@Lindis: I can answer the Tolkien question. YES!!! Tolkien's been accused of everything from sexism to racism to ageism to being a closet pagan (he was actually Anglican, but his best friend ..."
he he he lol! I love it!!!
Torie wrote: " Lindis wrote: "But you can't deny, in this story, their love for each other. " LOL. I actually do deny it. To me, what they have is merely infatuation. They lust after one another and don't h..."
OMG! lol, too! I can kinda see your point. But I guess we just won't agree on this one. And if we all agreed, there would be nothing to discuss.
he he he, I'm actually having fun now, but gotta go. I'll have to check your replies tomorrow.
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I think with Edward, Bella sees everything her father should have been but wasn't--a provider, a protector and someone who would love her unconditionally. The fact that Edward was more "mature" also fits into her need for a pseudo father-figure.
Vixenne wrote: "I think with Edward, Bella sees everything her father should have been but wasn't--a provider, a protector and someone who would love her unconditionally. The fact that Edward was more "mature" als..."HAHA. Daddy issues!
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You are too much! We all gave thorough explanations as to why the color pink was used as opposed to another color, but you're fixated on proving him to be a sexist!
C'mon, Mickey! You're ignoring our arguments. Be brave and say, in a site full of women, that you're trying to make someone out to be a sexist using unfounded arguments, when they're clearly not.