Which Fantasy Author Did You Find Most Disappointing? Showing 351-400 of 1,088

[Maggie]

It is true Mike-I think that lasted for three damn books... excuse me, but it does finally get resolved

[whimsicalmeerkat]

Still too much of the whole Perrin find Faile confusing thing.

[Jason]

Damn it, now I'm craving Jordan...*sigh*

[Maggie]

Whispers to Jason..."not while you're in the middle of Malazan and Black company! nope, you dont."

[Mike (the Paladin)]

I've got to admit, that Jordan's treatment of the series killed my desire to ever go back and read even the first good ones... gone completely. Too bad really. As I said, "might have been".

[carol. , Senor Crabbypants]

Yes, that's one series I've never wanted to re-read.

[Jason]

You're right, Maggie. My plate's already full. *raises hands and backs away*.

I've been raising my hands and backing away a lot lately. LOL

[Kevin]

Tracey wrote: "They claim it wasn't done to increase profit, but I can't buy that, either.
"

I see comments along this line crop up all over the place and they bother me a lot to be honest. The two books Sanderson wrote are faster paced, and more eventful than every book since EoTW, tying off losse ends as at every turn and with only one book to go there still are loads of unfinished story arcs.

When I heard that a writer was hired to finish WoT and he was going to do so in a single book I almost had a fit. I couldn't conceive how they would ever manage to properly tie off all the various plot lines in a single book in any satisfying manner. I was really worried that is was going to be quickly thrown togheter hash job to make some final cash off Jordan's barely cold corpse. (I didn't know Brandon Sanderson at that time.)

When they announced that it was going to be 3 books and they were going to take the time to do it properly I was relieved beyond measure.

The Gathering Storm is the best WoT book since the first 4 imo (and I like all of them). Towers of Midnight was good too, with my main complaint that it felt as if they crammed as much open plot lines in it as they could, which, to me, has the effect that they didn't give some long anticipated events the attention they deserved. Matt's fight against the golam, Galad's clash with the Children's commander (that was a cop out if I ever saw one), Moiraines rescue, ...

I similarly dislike comments about how authors like GRRM and Jordan supposedly artificially stretch out their series for monetary gain. If you want to cash in on your succes, you don't release humonguous, meandering tomes every four to five years. You write shorter, stripped novels and release them on a yearly basis.

Meh, [/rant] I suppose.

I hope that came across at least partially coherent. It's 5 in the morning near the end of my night shift, I'm a bit fuzzy right now.

[Mike (the Paladin)]

I understand that many like all the WoT books and enjoy the detailed volumes...I disagree, but I understand. It's hard to see/hear books you love criticized. I've been there.

While I disagree with you I'm also perfectly willing to be happy for you in that you enjoy the books. As for the "cashing in" by writing one or another type novel, it can go either way. Many writers who have a long and successful run of books can cash in on that past success. People who love an author will buy several books hoping that they will be the quality remembered.

Note I didn't say I "knew" that the books were being stretched to sell more volumes, I simply noted it as a single possibility. It may have been that Mr. Jordan's books sold so well that he no longer needed to edit as much as in earlier volumes. I've definitely seen that.

For example I like Tom Clancy's novels, but his later ones were far more "wordy" than his earlier works.

I truly believe that the story of WoT could be/have been told with far less repetitive verbiage. I honestly believe that it would profit from the services of a good editor...

Still, I understand that view isn't universal. LOL

[Vivian]

I'm actually surprised that so many people here aren't into WoT. Tthe few people I know who have read the series have been pretty big fans (even with the slow middle books) so I thought it was pretty universally liked.

[Maggie]

I was surprised too Vivian. I think the Gathering Storm was great, and Towers of Midnight better yet. Reading this series got me back into fantasy, which I had kind of blown off after getting exasperated with GRR Martin.

I now think that is pretty funny, as Jordan could have made me even more upset with the genre had I been in contact with it any earlier...lol

and PS Vivian...I really liked how the Moraine mystery turned out--good stuff!

[Traci]

I'm wanting to read WoT now. I started them years ago and stopped. But tastes can change and I'm thinking of giving them another go. Also a fan of Sanderson and I'd like to read the last books. *sigh* I'm way too easy.
The Force has a strong influence on the weak minded. lol.

[Bill]

Tracey wrote: "It was! (she wailed) It really was! Eye of the World was wonderful!"

If one read the 1st x books and got disgusted and stopped, will EOW make sense just reading that to end the series?

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

I liked Eye of the World. IIRC there were a few things I didn't get into but it was a good book. For me, I hate being stuck with a series that I can't finish. You write a 40 vol series and I won't read it. I just can't always get up the interest...

[Cheryl]

MrsJoseph wrote: "I liked Eye of the World. IIRC there were a few things I didn't get into but it was a good book. For me, I hate being stuck with a series that I can't finish. You write a 40 vol series and I won..."

I agree, MrsJoseph. I don't mind trilogies or even five or six book series, but anything more than that doesn't interest me. I would think the author would eventually run out of original plots and challenges for his/her characters and then it just becomes boring filler.

For example, I really liked the first few books of Terry Goodkind's The Sword of Truth series, but I didn't enjoy some of the later ones as much, especially those that didn't involve the main characters from the first books.

[Kevin]

Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "I understand that many like all the WoT books and enjoy the detailed volumes...I disagree, but I understand. It's hard to see/hear books you love criticized. I've been there.

While I disagree wit..."

I disagree with the 'in need of better editing' part. The main appeal from WoT, for me, is exactly that it is such a sprawling epic with hundreds of characters and plot lines, a good deal of them not essential to the main story. It's not just a story, it's a world. Imo it's one of the most immersive reads out there.

As for the repetitive phrases: I honestly hadn't noticed that while reading through the series the first time. It's only after I started to follow the fantasy communities online that I learned that (an awfull lot of) people seem to have problems with it.

I don't overly mind people critisizing WoT or other books I like. Different tastes and all that. Heck, in my circle of friends I'm the only non-highly educated (college drop out), fantasy reader in a group of Ph D.'s with shelves full of non-fiction and 'literature'. I'm used to getting looked down on for my tastes. ;)

I just have issues with people saying/claiming/insinuating that the series gets stretched purely for monetary gains, because it really doesn't make any logical sense to do it that way imo. If the writers were in it purely for the money, they'd just churn out books on a yearly basis, finishing off their series and then starting with spin-offs and outliners and all that stuff. They'd move a lot more volumes in a shorter time that way. And I don't begrudge writers who do take that road either, as long as they can keep up their level of quality. We all have to make a living somehow. Brandon Sanderson oppenly states that his main motivation for writing is, making sure that he never has to get a cubicle job. (Hey, I sure wish I had some sort of talent I could make my living off.)

I was going to make another point in here somewhere, but I lost it along the way, as I tend to do ...

[Kevin]

<.<
>.>
On topic now:

Trudi Canavan: I read her Magician's Guild after multiple recommendations and rave reviews. While reading it all I could think was: "This is what people are so excited about? Why?" It's really dreadfully boring imo. The writing is really flat. The characters are flat. The protagonist spends the first half of the book running from people, whom the reader already knows since the first chapter aren't a threat to her at all. So it looses any sort of tension it might have had. The second half is better, but not much. The villain of the story isn't much more than a petty high school bully, or at least he acts like one. He fails to be menacing at all. Also: "Hai!" bothers me.

Christopher Paolini: When I first read Eragon I quite enjoyed it. No work of genius, but since he was very young I expected him and his craft to grow as the story went along. That the series went from 'enjoyable', over 'alright' to 'why the heck am I reading this crap?' was a tad dissapointing to me ... At this point I couldn't care less what happens in the final book.

David Eddings: I started to read the Elder Gods at the time the final volume in the series came out here. There was a sale on the first three books as an advertisement drive. Never having read anything by Eddings, and wanting to fill that hole in my classic fantasy, I picked up the first one. I got about 80 pages in before tossing it aside. The only book I never finished. I'll give Eddings another chance someday, but not for now.

Raymond Feist: Great first books. His Empire trilogy novels are among my favourite books ever. Somewhere along the way he lost his magic though. The books lost thier sense of wonder, their spirit. It feels to me like he's just plodding along to get the series finished and finally off his chest. I bought "At the Gates of Darkness" as soon as it came out, but I still haven't read it. I'll get around to it, and anything that comes after, someday.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

KevinB wrote: "I just have issues with people saying/claiming/insinuating that the series gets stretched purely for monetary gains, because it really doesn't make any logical sense to do it that way imo. If the writers were in it purely for the money, they'd just churn out books on a yearly basis, finishing off their series and then starting with spin-offs and outliners and all that stuff. They'd move a lot more volumes in a shorter time that way. And I don't begrudge writers who do take that road either, as long as they can keep up their level of quality. We all have to make a living somehow. Brandon Sanderson oppenly states that his main motivation for writing is, making sure that he never has to get a cubicle job. (Hey, I sure wish I had some sort of talent I could make my living off.)"


While I can understand you not liking the point, it does make sense. If an author (esp a fantasy author) has a dedicated fan-base, the base tends to put the author on auto-buy. In hardback. That gives greater margins. In the meantime you also have the hype attached to every new release as well as dedicated fans who purchase additional copies for potential new fans. It makes a lot of sense.

[Kevin]

MrsJoseph wrote: "KevinB wrote: "I just have issues with people saying/claiming/insinuating that the series gets stretched purely for monetary gains, because it really doesn't make any logical sense to do it that wa..."

Yes, but why wait 4-5-6 years between releases, up to the point where you're pissing off more people than you're pleasing? It'd make a lot more sense to just clip them in smaller bits, or even just strip them down so you can get them out the door year on year. You're still selling hardcovers but at a much greater speed.

I'm just not seeing why this seems a logic thing to do for some people:

1. start popular, epic fantasy series.
2. Take longer to release book after book, pissing people off along the way.
3. ???
4. profit.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

KevinB wrote: "MrsJoseph wrote: "KevinB wrote: "I just have issues with people saying/claiming/insinuating that the series gets stretched purely for monetary gains, because it really doesn't make any logical sens..."

Well, as you can see with GRRM it doesn't matter the length of time between books. The fan base still purchases and in HB. Look how long its taken for the next book to come out and people are still buying - and they are buying the beginning of the series for their friends while re-reading the entire series to gear up for the new release. You don't get that with a Mercy Thompson novel.

The thing with stripped down smaller books is that they are usually purchased in PB or MMPB. A lot of people aren't as willing to shell out HB prices for a 300-400 page book that will have a new release again next year.

But with a 700+ page part of a series that I won't have another installation for 3-10 years? That's usually a HB purchase to keep with a MMPB to read.

You also have to realize that a book that is released on a yearly basis has to have a serious self-enclosed plot. Those types of books I would compare to a TV series with each book representing a single season.

Large tome series like ASoIaF and WoT are more like movies.

[Traci]

A little off subject, Curious what any of you think about Rand's love life in the WoT series? I haven't seen any mention of this anywhere. But this was a major turn off to me and part of why I lost interest in reading the rest of the books.

[whimsicalmeerkat]

Traci wrote: "A little off subject, Curious what any of you think about Rand's love life in the WoT series? I haven't seen any mention of this anywhere. But this was a major turn off to me and part of why I lost..."

My boyfriend and I were actually talking about this this morning. It's pretty ridiculous, and really poorly developed, in my opinion. The only piece of it that comes across even remotely like an actual relationship is that with Min, and even there large segments feel like caricatures. It's just too heavy on the "Rand can have anyone he likes" aspect for my tastes.

[Mike (the Paladin)]

Kevin, the key phrase in your post (about a dozen post ago LOL) was "The main appeal for me". I can see that and THAT'S Great. I really mean that. I know you and others liked all the detail.

Frankly I don't see how anyone could miss the repetitive nature of the story telling, but I suppose if you're really into it that could be. BUT,. Mr. Jordan told each event over and over from a half dozen points of view. it would happen and then word would get to one group and then another character or group and so on and so on. Each gets a detailed account of events (that seems to assume the reader must have forgotten what happened by now so they need to be told again) and then each person or group reacts in detail. Oh well.

As for why the books were multiple years apart Mr. Jordan was working on other projects up to and including text books. Though I suppose most of it was involved in laying out details of the work.

Again, I don't know what was behind the glacial pace of the WoT. We were only suggesting possibilities, what seemed likely to us...AND expressing frustration.

I know you dis agree, but I still say that in the hands of a competent editor this series would have been one of literary masterpieces of the English language. As it is that ship has sailed.

Just my opinion.

[Kevin]

MrsJoseph wrote: "You also have to realize that a book that is released on a yearly basis has to have a serious self-enclosed plot. "

I don't see why that has to be true. You're saying that if WoT was released yearly (or biyearly) it would have needed a self-enclosed plot in every book. I'm not following that logic. It would still be the same book, the same story, it would just be released at faster (smaller) intervals.

The notion that less hardcovers would be sold with a faster release schedule is something I also disagree with. But even if that was the case I'd say that you'd earn more money from selling four paperbacks in four years than from one hardcover in four years.

I'm not really sure I'm getting my point across here.

The thing that I'm taking issue with is the following. People claiming that WoT could've been finished in 6/8/10 books, and the only reason it isn't is because Jordan/Harriet/Tor is stretching it out to make more money off it.

I disagree with that claim because, imo, it really doesn't make any sense to go about it that way.

Lets say that the story indeed could've been told in 8 volumes and they are indeed just stringing it and their readers along.

In that case it would've been a lot smarter, imo, to just release those 8 volumes but to keep them going at a (bi)yearly release schedule (as the first few were released). We only care about the money here, so it wouldn't be much trouble to cut some corners with the quality of the books in order to keep to that schedule if needed. (People find the quality went down as the series progressed as is anyway, so that wouldn't be different from the current situation.)

This way you have your money coming in at a much faster pace and you're not driving people away for taking to long. (This does happen, I've read numerous complaints from people who've lost patience with WoT.)

Now your series is finished and you can start on a whole series of outliners, prequels, sequels, companion books, what have you, ... all keeping to that (bi)yearly release.

It would still be the same type of series and it would still be marketed to the same target audiance (HC buying fantasy geeks like myself) so I don't see any reason why you would sell less numbers per book, than were sold now. You'd have more sales in total because you would've more releases in the same time frame.

Now all that being said, I'm not saying that Tor is a charity institution that only cares about artistic value of their products. Of course they don't mind when a bestselling series gets stretched. They are a business after all.

It's just that when you're an author who has reached the point where thousands of people will buy everything you sell by default, regardless of what it actually is, there are better marketing strategies to capitalise on that than leaving half a decade gaps between two releases of a spun out series.

Great, this is even longer than my previous drivel ...

[Kevin]

Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "Mr. Jordan told each event over and over from a half dozen points of view. it would happen and then word would get to one group and then another character or group and so on and so on. Each gets a detailed account of events (that seems to assume the reader must have forgotten what happened by now so they need to be told again) and then each person or group reacts in detail. Oh well."

Yes, I know. It's great, isn't it? Makes the whole thing feel all connected and truly epic in scale! :p

Heh, seriously though. As I said, I don't mind people not liking books I like. I'm sure there's stuff you think is great that I can't get past myself (I don't know, haven't checked your list yet). To each his own. :)

[Kevin]

Traci wrote: "A little off subject, Curious what any of you think about Rand's love life in the WoT series? I haven't seen any mention of this anywhere. But this was a major turn off to me and part of why I lost..."

It's a bit out there imo. But I feel it's rationalised well enough for me not to care to much about it.

Min knew it was going to happen from the moment she met Rand, she saw it in the symbols. I can see her coming to terms with it that way.

Avienda is Aiel. And this sort of thing isn't uncommon in their culture.

Elaine and Avienda are BFFs. They discussed it in depth, and THEY (not Rand) decided to go about it this way. Stuff like this happens in the real world too, though not as much in the Western cultures.

Rand ... Well, he's a guy barely out of his teens. :p

[Kevin]

Tracey wrote: "I don't think the whole Wheel of Time series was engineered to maximize profit; I just can't help thinking that the wrapping up of it was, in part, engineered to maximize profit."

I doubt it honestly. But even if it was, I don't really see how they could've about it diffently. It never would've been finished in one book. Jordan himself wouldn't have been to it either (Honestly, I doubt he would've finished it in three books.)

Both TGS and ToM are both dedicated to finishing loose story threads, and they do a lot of that. I suppose there still were pieces here and that some people would consider 'bloath', but even if you would cut that out (which would really bad imo. They already lost the readers who dislike this sort of stuff at this point, so why cather to them?), I still don't see how they could've crammed everything that is still to happen into those two books and still have it be satisfying. They already skirted those edges in ToM imo, and I'm not alone in those feelings.

Anyway, I'll leave it at that. I already took up way more space in this thread that I ever intended too.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

Eh, there is no way to convince me that a lot wasn't done for profit. YMMV

[Vivian]

This is better than advertising! All this talk about WoT is almost enough for me to pick up the series again.

[[deleted user]]

All this talk of WoT is making me glad I've never picked it up :P

[[deleted user]]

*rolls eyes* I'm going to annoy alot of my buds here but I think people can always find something to bitch about. The Wheel of Time series is excellent. Sure it has it's flaws. It meanders. It repeats. It strays off on ye random tangents and has full backgrounds for useless one and done characters.

So what.

It's one of if not The epic fantasy series of the past thirty years. Argue and gripe and bitch and moan all you want, Wheel of Time is still great. *shrugs* I get all the complaints but really and truly I think Jordan was a sick old man who had a baby that he fell in love with. I think it was his whole world and that it grew and multipled because Jordan wasn't ready to see his magnus opus come to an end. Judging from the kind of man Jordan was, I think Jordan lived a little extra longer out of sheer will and fire and desire to see the world had an ending and I think that's commendable. *picks up The Eye of the World* I'm doing a full fricking re-read right now.

Great discussion :)

[[deleted user]]

I hear ya, hun :) Only thing that annoys me is that people are scaring off folks that have never read the series. They're not reading the books but just taking everyone griping to heart and going Oh well those books are Long and could have been shorter blah blah blah blah, I better not read them lest my head hurt. *growls*

[Jason]

I agree with both sides of this discussion actually. I do think that because it got popular within the first three books, Tor wanted Jordan to write more of them. On the other hand, epic fantasy is big on world building, so lovers of epic fantasy really love Jordan's WoT series for that reason alone. Lots and lots of world building there. LOL

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

I feel that unless you know for a fact that it's not your cuppa then pick the book up first. (boundry awareness)

Now, i can gripe all I want cause I've actually dove into it. :-P

[Mike (the Paladin)]

Wow what a mess this place is getting to be... maybe we should stop beating this dead horse, it seems to be coming apart. :)

It'll take hours to clean this up.... Better let in the stray dogs and cats.

[whimsicalmeerkat]

Well there's a lovely mental image...

[Mach]

I think everyone that likes fantasy should atleast read the first three WOT books and judge fior themselves, i agree with Grant that all that negative talk is scaring away people that haven't read the series yet, and i think they should atleast try it out. I think WOT is one of the best epic fantasy series ever and if anyone here knows about any series that is supposedly better, i would love to hear which one that is.

[Mach]

By the way if the WOT is so bad why have you all read 8,9,10 even 12 books in this series? i don't know about you but usely when i don't like a series i stop at the first book.

[Mike (the Paladin)]

Because they make money. We never said people didn't like the series...people like Gilligan's Island and boiled okra. We all have differing taste. I accept that you like or love the series. But there are...IN MY OPINION....far better series.

By the way, you suggested people read the first 3 volumes. Many of us said and I said that the first 5 or 6 books in this series were near masterpieces if not masterpieces. I bought at least 9 books hoping that would be recaptured. It wasn't. I'm sorry. And I don't say you need to agree with me.

Oh man look at this. I've added to the mess, we just keep beating and beating this carcass.

"WE'RE GOING TO NEED MORE STRAYS TO HELP OUT HERE> ANY MORE HUNGRY ANIMALS AROUND???!!!

[whimsicalmeerkat]

OMG, I love boiled okra!

[[deleted user]]

So anyway...


I've only ever read one LeGuin book, and I was hugely disappointed in it. It just annoyed me so completely that I haven't gone back to try any of her other books which people seem to love.

I will though...someday...

[Mike (the Paladin)]

LeGuin huh... Well, I don't really hate her but I've not really been able to get into her stuff either.

(Surreptitiously shakes foot to clean shoe)

So, Denae, do you like Gilligan's Island?

[[deleted user]]

Lol...Denae you missed our original boiled okra convo a few months ago. It's me and you against the world on the boiled okra front ;)

[[deleted user]]

Mike said, "
(Surreptitiously shakes foot to clean shoe)

Roflmao :)

[Jason]

Hey! What's wrong with Gilligan's Island? O_O

LOL j/k

Regarding the Jordan discussion. We will never be able to reach a conclusion, because there is none, really. It all comes down to opinion. And the only important opinion is mine! And mine alone!

HAHAHAHA .... Bow to me!

LOL

I'm joking, of course, but I make a good point (aside from that weak moment, the "bow to me" part). The only opinion that's important is yours. :)

[Mike (the Paladin)]

sigh...

(scraping shoe) "I'll have to throw these out now."

[Jason]

SHHH! Tracey, not so loud! They might hear you!

lol

[carol. , Senor Crabbypants]

@Machavelli
For epic fantasy, I'm rather fond of Katharine Kerr's Deverry series-- Daggerspell

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

ROTFLMAO

Oh my, you guys are the best!

[Kevin]

Carol wrote: "@Machavelli
For epic fantasy, I'm rather fond of Katharine Kerr's Deverry series-- Daggerspell"

Never really got into the series, it did not grab my attention. I have the first two book, every time I would read the book I would put the book down after the first 50 pages or so.