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Which Fantasy Author Did You Find Most Disappointing?
After the first couple of his books I didn't care for Goodkind. Like Wizards First Rule and the first few sequels pretty well...but then thought the books went down hill fast. Others like them. I'll be interested in what you think.
As i've just finished it...I'm noticing that I really didn't care for Meljean Brook's The Iron Duke. The steampunk was excellent (thanks Lady D!) but the romance was meh. I might have been seriously shocked in some places if Lady D hadn't given me a heads up.
Shocked by the romance? Or are there sexual scenes in it you didn't care for?
Matthew wrote: "Shocked by the romance? Or are there sexual scenes in it you didn't care for?"There are some sexual scenes I didn't care for. I really didn't see a romance.
Sounds like people (possibly including the author) are mistaking sex for romance? One is not the other. Romance may involve sex, but there's plenty of non-romantic sex in the world, and a good amount of romance that doesn't involve sex for that matter.I'm not against competently-written sex in my fiction, but it has to work right and be in-character and actually serve a purpose in the story.
I agree. The sex in this book felt very...forced to me (in more ways than one).
From the reviews, it sounds a bit too rape-y; I thought this was something that the romance genre had gotten over in the modern age? This being a crossover romance/steampunk and all. Or is the reason people read historical romances so they can have all the rapeiness of a less enlightened time?
lol!! Umm, I try to avoid rapeiness. That was my issue. Most of the historicals I read avoid rapeiness, too. Mostly I love historicals for the different aspects they have - and to see women break it. I also love the costume porn! :-)
I'm glad that it's not the default in historicals, then. It would bother me. Besides, it's much more story-effective to have the bad boy with manners, surely?
I noticed several of the reviews saying that it seems rather out-of-character for the female lead in that story to have so much trouble knowing & asking for what she wants, in terms of relationships and sex, given how self-assured she appears otherwise.
I read that book a while ago. Definitely a smidge rapey, and the romance was basically nonexistent. The steampunk bits were okay, though, I'll give it that. In fact, that's something I can say about a LOT of steampunk. The gadgets, aesthetic, atmosphere - they nearly all get it right. But when it comes to nearly everything else, they've nearly all got at least one glaring flaw that keeps me from saying it's a great book.
that's very mysterious...what is that 'one glaring flaw', alexandra? despite the impossibly cheesy cover, i have this book on my to-buy list.oh wait a sec, i actually bought it! came in the mail this week. so don't let me know what that glaring flaw is if it is spoiler-y.
@Alexandra Victoria: perhaps it's that the authors and fans are so into the setting that they let other things drop?I'm curious as to what steampunk you've read. I've read Gibson's original The Difference Engine and Westerfield's YA pair (Leviathan and Behemoth), but not much else ...
i'm a fan of the genre. my favorite so far is The Glass Books of the Dream Eaters.but i actually didn't enjoy Difference Engine all that much.
It had some good points, but was way too slow for me, and many of the characters were uninspiring.
I've never been a big Gibson fan, but his work, Westerfeld's, Moorcock's, and Miéville's are the only 'steampunk' books that I felt were pretty good in terms of character, writing, story, etc. Some books I really couldn't stand that are rather popular: Boneshaker, while I wasn't big on the writing, the real problem was the characters... they just didn't do anything, and while I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing, this is the sort of story that requires very active protagonists... not to mention the fact that is seems VERY 'bandwagon', almost gimmicky, when you throw in the zombies; Clockwork Angel, it was just a rehash of the author's other books, only with more gears, and she was never spectacular to begin with; Soulless has some of the worst writing I've read from the genre, but I was willing to forgive that because it is also a romance novel, but... ugh, it just tried too hard to sound smart sometimes.
I must admit to having had that reservation about Cherie Priest's work — combining steampunk & zombies sounds like serious bandwagon-jumping, though a good author could make it work.I've heard very mixed things about Soulless, to the extent that I probably don't want to read it. Some people seem to like it, but a lot say they don't, and that the sequels are worse.
The best thing about Clockwork Angel, it seems, is that it's inspired some wonderful trashing reviews which are works of art in their own way.
I love a bad boy with manners ;-) They're the best kind...he's gotta respect his momma.Most of the historicals I've read trend towards strong women who know their minds - not typical for the time period. Typically the men are "bad" cause they are the only ones who can "handle" her. I hate to use the word handle, that's what the quote marks are for.
I've only read 2 steampunk novels: The Iron Duke and The Voyage of the Minotaur. They both had their good and bad points...
Well, it does tend to take a strong man to not be intimidated by a strong woman, so that's probably where it really is. It's not so much "handle" in the semi-abusive way that sometimes gets used, more to do with him having the strength to retain his cool around her.
Matthew wrote: "Well, it does tend to take a strong man to not be intimidated by a strong woman, so that's probably where it really is. It's not so much "handle" in the semi-abusive way that sometimes gets used, ..."Yeah, like that! And being able to see past "impropriety" to the person beneath.
Yes; quite often, such a heroine has met, before, only men who quail at the thought of of what their mothers or friends would say about a woman that's so improper.
:-) Or men who feel she'll "straighten up" if given some children to raise. *eyeroll*
Ugh, I hate those, in real life or fantasy. A rarer attitude these days, thankfully, but it still exists.
Ummm, yeah. I've met a few in my life. *gag*
Sorry you didn't care for The Iron Duke, MrsJ.
It's not quite like you think. I really enjoyed the story and the plot...I just didn't feel their romance. I loved everything else.
Well that's something, then. :)
:-) Favorite part? Jumping over the side of the airship to take out the Kraken.
That was totally awesome!
Hard to choose so i'll go with the most recent... Sam Sykes.
Hm. Many comments here. I am a big fan of healthy sexuality. All humans have a sexual nature and cutting it out results in cutting out a portion of that character's existence. They become flatter. That said, all sexuality needs to arise from character. Then, it represents character growth, change, and pivot points. Haven't read Blake, but it sounds like she isn't driving her sex from her characters. Which makes it pointless and not even sexy to read most of the time.Gayness--does not have to be agenda, but should be part of any realistic world. One out of ten people are gay, and the figures only fluctuate world wide. Every culture deals with homosexuality in its own way, and that includes made up ones. I don't go into a character being gay thinking I'm serving the gay agenda (which, by the way, is a myth). I'm creating the entire character, including sexuality, and so it comes up. Sometimes the issue never comes up in the book, sometimes it is quite widespread for the fact of who the characters and situations are.
Worst book. Okay, I'm a big vampire fan. Like, read Dracula when young. I work with kids and fantasy and a few years ago the only book the kids kept naming as their favorite book that I hadn't read was Twilight.
I tried. I tried so damn hard. I can forgive the animal blood thing. Maybe I can live with wandering around on foggy days. But sparkley? Come on. Does this even count as a vampire anymore? All lame vampire issues aside, I lost it when Becca found uber-stalking sexy and reassuring. That's a terrible message to send young people, especially young girls. I know some of these girls relationships and they don't need encouragement to see disturbing stalking as affection. And why does being Native American make you a werewolf? The west coast tribes don't have that tradition. Don't we mess enough with the Native Americans without exploiting them as noble werewolves?
They aren't even well written. The first chapter displays just about every possible literary mistake that most writers refer to only as short hand jokes.
I resent Mormon morality--speaking of agendas--being stuffed down my throat.
Thank you. I love a good rant.
nice rant! i appreciate your comments a lot.although i am curious, where have you seen mormon agendas being aggressively enacted in fantasy? i just can't think of any. i've mentioned before my feelings about OSC, but i also mentioned that i never saw those messages in the Ender series (which i loved). are there other places you've seen it?
Lol. Well Cicada you get brownie points for going back and apparently reading the whole thread :) Made the context of some of your comments a bit hard to get but then again my memory isn't the best ;)
I haven't really seen any religious, Mormon or otherwise, agendas in fantasy, either. Actually, when I found out that Orson Scott Card was a Mormon, I was surprised. Same with Sanderson. If it's there, I think that it's well hidden. But I don't think that it's there. The only way it's represented, imo, is in Sanderson's work, and within his characters. Sanderson is simply bringing what he knows to the table. It's not that his characters are preachy. It's how "innocent" some of them seem.
I'm thinking strongly here of Elend's (spelling?) and Vin's relationship in the Mistborn series. In the second book, Vin sits on Elend's lap alot. That, mixed in with the way they interacted with each other reminded me a lot of some Christains I knew back in high school even before I found out that Sanderson is a Mormon.
I seem to remember hearing that others of OSC's series were more obviously Mormon, but since I never read them, can't comment myself.And certainly I have no problem with people writing characters and societies based on what they know! In fact, it's more interesting, because different backgrounds bring ideas and styles and feelings I may not have thought of doing myself.
I'd heard the same complaints about David Farland's Runelords but I never saw anything that I thought preachy or Mormon-eque. Then again, I'm rather ignorant of the Mormon faith.
I think many of the books in question, when taken at face value, are simply rousing fantasy tales. There are always those that wish to look too deeply into things, finding conspiracies where none exist *coughgrassyknollcough*
I think many of the books in question, when taken at face value, are simply rousing fantasy tales. There are always those that wish to look too deeply into things, finding conspiracies where none exist *coughgrassyknollcough*
I have no problem with a writer bringing in what they know, either. It adds spice to my reading world. :)And Grant! How dare you mock the grassy knoll conspiracy. That one's real, I tell you! R. E. A. L!
I know this because they haunt my back yard....help me...
LOL
I'm not sure if it was this thread but there was a discussion a while back over Card's "extra literary" comments concerning his views. Apparently they were negative at least toward gay marriage. I haven't read them so i don't know the details. Some were "boycotting" Card's work based on these comments. I was involved in one discussion because some were rating and reviewing his books "down" without reading them and I asked about it. So I got the proverbial ear full... mostly I stepped back. I hadn't read the remarks so couldn't comment.Don't know if that's what's being referenced here or not.
Listen to Jason...didn't you see the movie Shooter? I'm from Tennessee, the Patron State of "shootin' stuff". They went and met the guy who still has the shovel the Grassy Knoll shooter were buried with, you know after the head conspirators killed them.
I think it is, at least a little bit, Mike. Though I don't agree.
I also don't agree with Card's point of view on gays, but if he writes a book that sounds interesting to me, I'm going to read it. The same with Sanderson or anyone else.
I mean, I really doubt these guys are hate mongers in real life, no matter what they write in an essay. They just simply don't agree with something in our society, even if it is a natural thing.
I think some people go into a book they know was written by a Mormon, looking for stuff like that. Mormon's are easy to pick on because, well, let's face it, their denomination did start on some shaky grounds.
I love Sanderson, but like you Nicki, I can only read him here and there. I can't read his catalogue back to back. I'd scream. LOL
I don't mind the innocence of Sanderson's relationships, I think it's kind of sweet actually. I guess I'm a squishy romantic at heart (tell anyone and I'll punch you)... The slow courting processes in his books set my girlish heart all aflutter, lol :)
Nicki wrote: "I'd have to disagree with the idea that Card is not a hate monger, considering the lies he attempts to propagate, but he is one person. I do not take him as representative of his denomination, or o..."Well, Nicki, the one part that you hated about Mistborn is basically what Card's Speaker for the Dead, Xeoncide, and Children of the Mind are all about, asking moral what if questions.
Oh, Gawd. Alvin the Maker was boorring. So boring.
I have to agree that Anne Bishop was pretty unimpressive. I read The Black Jewels Trilogy: Daughter of the Blood, Heir to the Shadows, Queen of the Darkness because I kept seeing them recommended for fans of Jacqueline Carey, but I really could not see the similarities.I'm also another who's disillusioned with Terry Goodkind. I thought the series started off really well, but somewhere along the line, his main characters became unrecognizable political avatars. I was really disgusted by Naked Empire and didn't think Chainfire was enough of an improvement to keep going. I might read the last two at some point just to say I got the series out of the way, but they're not really high on my TBR list.
I don't like Card and stopped reading him before I found out he was a Christain. I thought Ender was okay but I agree with Mrsj, Alvin was sooo boring I stopped reading Card. I may go back, just to finish the Ender series.
Alvin was my first meeting with Card and it left a sour (bored) taste in my mouth. Everyone keeps saying that Ender is great but I was so bored by Alvin that I haven't been able to pick them up.
Strange, it had the same effect on me and I had read Card and somewhat liked him...lol
LOL! I understand, I so understand.
While I'm certainly the first to admit that I hate right wing religious fundamentalists - Mormon or otherwise - I could make my way through the Ender's books without much difficulty. He's hardly the greatest author in the genre, but at least the first couple of books weren't that bad. I won't be rereading them, and I can't give my money to him to actually own a copy, but they're readable. I'd probably have liked them more if I read them as a kid.
And then there is Empire. Oh lord. That book is straight up about how evil the American left is. It beautifully dances the same line as Fox News, between "offensive" and "hilariously inaccurate" at all times. His attempts to call it a work praising centrism, though, pissed me off. A lot.
And then there is Empire. Oh lord. That book is straight up about how evil the American left is. It beautifully dances the same line as Fox News, between "offensive" and "hilariously inaccurate" at all times. His attempts to call it a work praising centrism, though, pissed me off. A lot.
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And thank you everyone for the comments on Lawhead. Seems like he's quite good. I'm now compelled to give his work a go :)