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Which Fantasy Author Did You Find Most Disappointing?
message 951:
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Mike (the Paladin)
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Jan 31, 2013 08:43AM
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I have to admit that the author I actually have the most animosity for is Sterling Lanier. If he was not already deceased I would probably still be making death threats.He wrote the first book of what was probably destined to be one of my favorite trilogies and one of the first I started. Great story, even had an ending though he obviously intended to go on.
Second book written 10 years later, in 1983. Another great book, with an ending for that scenario, but an additional chapter that was a 'cliffhanger' to presumably introduce the final book.
He died in 2007, after writing at least two other books and some short stories, but without writing the third book for this series ... and I'm still mad at him!
I hate that.And by the way I agree with you, we'll never know how The Unforsaken Hiero ennds, so to speak.
It seems to me this is exactly what George R.R. Martin is doing. Do not get me wrong, I wish him a long life and all the best, but I have an impression we will not see the end of A Song of Ice and Fire.
Robert Jordan syndrome, though Sterling Lanier preceded him.
Patrick wrote: "David Eddings? Yeah. Even before Leigh came in on his books, he had a weird habit of repeating not just characters, but plot lines and sometimes, I felt, entire novels. I loved the Sparhawk novels, but they were my introduction to Eddings. When I went back through his earlier series, I found that a lot of what I had been reading, I'd read before, through Sparhawk. It was a weird thing. I know authors touch back on places they've been, their chief obsessions, etc. But it should have been clear to Eddings that these were roads he'd gone down before, maybe. But again, I can't speak too much ill of these guys. They are in their positions as known authors because of the work they had produced, at some point. I just lost interest in what they had to say later on. "Very true.
I read the Belgariad series first so I can't read Sparhawk. My dad is the opposite, lol.
I've read others of his and they are all the same (people, quests, etc). But some of it is comforting in its familiarity. I don't read his new stuff, though.
Evgeny wrote: "It seems to me this is exactly what George R.R. Martin is doing. Do not get me wrong, I wish him a long life and all the best, but I have an impression we will not see the end of A Song of Ice and ..."Don't worry Brandon Sanderson seems to have put himself forward as finisher of epic fantasies by doing Robert Jordans WOT, if George R Martin dies hes sure to swoop in and finish it off, maybe he'll even go back and rewrite the ends to some of Tolkien's unfinished works :P
Should be said however that im not really ripping at Brandon Sanderson :P I like what hes done with WOT, and his own novels are brilliant in their own right,
Narmin wrote: "C.S. Lewis"Were you disappointed for the same reason as me, his racism? I found The Lion, the witch and the Wardrobe delightful but was so disappointed by the Horse and his Boy and I could not enjoy the rest of the series.
Ok...so...I was for sure the most disappointed in The Name of the Wind.
I mean, I was so sure I would love it I bought both the book and the audio so I could read and listen last summer. It came highly recommended by a GR friend and the ratings were ridiculously high. How could I go wrong?
Hour after tedious hour I waited for it to get better for me. It never happened.
Rather than go and on if you are still reading this post, I just flat out did not like Kvothe.(better in the present, but not enough to save the book for me.)
Other books mentioned here that I did enjoy:Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell...I can see how it would not be for everyone and it has some slow parts, but I liked it.
Twilight....I read it before the movies and the hype...read all 4 books in a week for pure fun....great writing? No....reminded me of the young girl I once was? Yes.
Harry Potter? .....I LOVE them.
A Wizard of Earthsea....another one that did very little for me.
I find Wheel of Times to be like Dragonball Z on so many different levels.
Shelli wrote: "Ender's Game one of my all-time favorite books and I also enjoyed Ender in Exile.I had no interest in reading the books in between these two.
The Lost Gate....did not even compare..it was just ..."
I love Ender's Game for the opposite reason as I hated Ender in Exile, but especially love the squels, but I thought the Shadow books, other than Ender's Shadow were okay.
Also I agree with most of Orson Scott Card's believe, but I do not like what any of his novels since Shadow of the Giant.
Kevin wrote: "I find Wheel of Times to be like Dragonball Z on so many different levels."You mean the other way around...
Maybe the Wheel of Time inspired it.
MrsJoseph wrote: "Kevin wrote: "I find Wheel of Times to be like Dragonball Z on so many different levels."You mean the other way around...
Maybe the Wheel of Time inspired it."
No, Dragonball Z began as Dragonball so I would have to consider Dragonball as the starting point, no Dragonball, no Dragonball Z. Also Dragonball Z began on April of 1989, which almost a good year before the first book in the Wheel of Time, The Eye of the World was even published.
Kevin wrote: "MrsJoseph wrote: "Kevin wrote: "I find Wheel of Times to be like Dragonball Z on so many different levels."You mean the other way around...
Maybe the Wheel of Time inspired it."
No, Dragonbal..."
You honestly think that Jordan was inspired by a cartoon in a different language from a different country in a single year before his 814 page book was published? He must have been a time traveler.
I found the ALVIN books by Orson Scott Card to be unsatisfactory. The first one was OK and then it became really odd.
Jalilah wrote: "Narmin wrote: "C.S. Lewis"Were you disappointed for the same reason as me, his racism? I found The Lion, the witch and the Wardrobe delightful but was so disappointed by the Horse and his Boy an..."
Oh no, I don't know anything about his racism, I've only read Magician's nephew and the lion, the witch and the wardrobe. I didn't finish that series and never attempted to read any other book by him. I was in my mid-teens when I started to read the Chronicles of Narnia and thought the books very childish and it was very disappointing.
I didn't comment when I saw this comment as I think each reads and gets something of their own from most books, but I never saw any racism in that book. It's dated, but finding racism is a real stretch. Still, I assume you saw what you took as such. I would advise readers to look for themselves.
Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "I didn't comment when I saw this comment as I think each reads and gets something of their own from most books, but I never saw any racism in that book. It's dated, but finding racism is a real str..."I am not the first person to make this observation. If you look on the web you will find lots of articles on this. The villains, in The Horse and His Boy are the Calormenes. Depicted as dark skinned and turbans wearing, they unmistakeably resemble either Middle Easterners or South East Asians. To be fair to C. S. Lewis, considering the times which the books were written, his views were typical of many English of this era.
Lewis has also been criticised for comments he said about Susan in The Last Battle saying she is “no longer a friend of Narnia” because she is now a teenager interested in boys and make up.
Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "I didn't comment when I saw this comment as I think each reads and gets something of their own from most books, but I never saw any racism in that book. It's dated, but finding racism is a real str..."I'm not sure how silly this question is, but how is "racism" is defined when looking at older books? Is it with respect to our current perspective, or wrt the average for the time?
From our contemporary perspective, I think Lewis shared prominent prejudices of his time, and they are in Horse and His Boy. I mean, the Calormen (referred to by Narnians repeatedly as "darkies") have garb, language, culture, etc that are based on negative stereotypes about Arabs (Tashbaan->Tashkent, etc), and they worship a hate-mongering, evil god...it's hard to say that doesn't propound discrimination. That book in particular makes me uncomfortable, but he's not unique--these were common views in Lewis' time (South men/Easterners in Tolkein's LotR). I think it's good to recognize the prejudice, but dismissing all such books is also problematic--even Jane Austen has casual mentions of slave plantations in Mansfield Park. When reading for pleasure, if a book's prejudices make the experience not enjoyable, then it's not be worth it-- on the other hand, it can be worthwhile to confront a book's issues and then examine and try to look past its context.
If you read the series you'll find there's no racism as the Calormenes are simply used as a center of a different belief system and in the Last Battle go the the same "Heaven" as everyone else. Also I've discussed the Susan thing to. All Lewis does is use Susan as an example of someone who becomes more involved with the world's life. She isn't condemned but what will come for her is left open. She isn't on the train where the others are.I think (Just my opinion of course) that it's just important to some to find problems with the stories.
As for the unfortunate language as noted the book is dated and common language was used. Try reading H. Rider Haggard or P.G.Wodehouse, you'll find worse language that was accepted at the time. It doesn't make it right or pleasant, but to attribute modern motives for language that was written 70 years or more ago makes no sense.
I don't think that Lewis was a racist. I've read the Narnia series several times and I don't feel its racist. I think that Lewis shows two different countries that have two different races. These people also have vastly different religious viewpoints AND they have been at odds/war for generations. I think Lewis was realistically showing how these groups would think and deal with each other. War does not foster understanding. Lewis made no decisions to hide the bad things that happen to people and during things like war. This same attitude was also shown in the first (and I believe) second books. I think people didn't pay as much attention to it since it was animals vs humans instead of humans vs humans. I think this pops up again in another book as well....the one when the MCs end up in the land of the giants.
I also noticed that one of the main characters in the book was a Calormene and was not a bad person in the least. Spoiled, yes. Bad, no.
In addition, Lewis goes even further in the final book. Aslan teaches people that "no matter what name comes out of your mouth, things done in good can only be attributed to good and things done in evil can only be attributed to evil." (paraphrased)
And the people of Calormen are also people who go to "heaven."
My favorite book of the series is The Last Battle though there's a lot a child wouldn't pick up and of course many people misunderstand the whole Susan thing.
....well, no hate as I was just dragged over the coals for a negative review I gave. BUT by the same token, "to each their own". I love the Dresden books and find the original concept great, at the time it was very original...and a hoot.But we can't all have the same taste so...you don't care for the books. Could I ask if you have a favorite author of light fiction? There's another reviewer here whom I can generally be sure will disagree with me on any book and I won't generally care for what he/she likes. may be the case here, just different tastes.
I read the first one in those long-ago days Before the Internet, and so there was no platform for Mr. Card to exhibit his awfulness to the world. Now, of course, it cannot be hid.
Brenda wrote: "I read the first one in those long-ago days Before the Internet, and so there was no platform for Mr. Card to exhibit his awfulness to the world. Now, of course, it cannot be hid."Well, I read Alvin before the internet thing, too.
And I stopped reading Card because his books were boring and the characters whiny.
It was only after I joined GR that I found out he was an asshole, too. LOL!
Why is Orson Scott Card a jerk? I've never read him but had wanted to ty.
Most likely because Card actively takes on political and social issues, usually conservatively. I checked wikipedia, and learned he's the grandson of Brigham Young, a prominent leader in the Mormon Church, which was interesting.Here's a little Wiki tidbit:
] In 2009, Card became a member of the board of directors of the National Organization for Marriage, a group that seeks to prevent the legalization of same-sex marriage.[32]
Card has voiced his opinion that paraphilia and homosexuality are sometimes linked. In a 2004 essay entitled "Homosexual 'Marriage' and Civilization",
Card wrote:
The dark secret of homosexual society—the one that dares not speak its name—is how many homosexuals first entered into that world through a disturbing seduction or rape or molestation or abuse, and how many of them yearn to get out of the homosexual community and live normally.[33]
You know, I have a major problem with spec fic writers having prejudice of any type. How can their mind expand to create new worlds and civilizations if they are so bound by this earth and time?
To be fair to Card, he at least keeps his preachings out of his books (the ones I read anyway).
Nitasha wrote: "Hearing that makes me feel better, like I'm not even missing out on anything! Hah :D "Well, it was pretty painful to read. If you're into causing yourself eyebleeds...you have missed something.
I've not commented on this but I don't find Card "repugnant". Even if we may disagree as long as his books aren't overwhelmed by his politics (some are and some aren't) they can be enjoyed. And if he wants to overwhelm his plot with his politics then it's his business, I just won't buy them. (Look at how Goodkind's books went.)He's written some books I like a lot (and others I can't stand of course) his ideas not withstanding. Has anyone read Gone to Texas? it was retitled and re-released after the movie came out, The Outlaw Josey Wales. It's a good book, violent and so on but a good story. The second is about as good. Years after I read it I found Carter had a history as a racist. He recanted in later life but his history was still there as were implications that he'd claimed native American heritage that he lacked. But all that didn't change the fact that he'd written a couple of good books.
Many great writers, composers, poets etc. were vial people, but they were still talented (look at Wagner he was an idol of Adolf Hitler). Now I don't find Card vile even if some do...but whatever he's written some books I like.
Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "I've not commented on this but I don't find Card "repugnant". Even if we may disagree as long as his books aren't overwhelmed by his politics (some are and some aren't) they can be enjoyed. And if ..."I just can't do it, Captain! I'm an engineer, not a miracle worker!
Mike you make some good points. I was aware that OSCard was political and conservative and a mormon, but I was not aware of most of this stuff, until I read it here today. While I do not agree with his beliefs and did find an article he wrote extremely offensive(I googled after reading a few of these posts) I can't say that I change my mind about Ender's Game. It is a favorite of mine. I agree with you that people can be vile in their beliefs and yet, talented.
However, after "learning" of this stuff today, I will probably be more selective and cautious if I choose to read more of his work. I have read 3 of his books...two of which I liked vey much.
He's written a lot of books I don't care for, some I found very heavy handed but I do like others. Ender's Game, The Lost gate some others. Their fiction. Remember the foo-fa-ra among some Christian groups about Harry Potter (and I'm a Christian) I was constantly telling people, "it's just a story". As a matter of fact there are places in those books than can be used to teach Christian lessons. BUT because the words witch and wizard were used some people "knee jerked" away from it. Here we have people who find that they disagree with a persons beliefs or ideas and so refuse to read their fiction.Life.
Welp, as I said. I read him way before the internet was available for this kind of interaction and was not impressed. So...no matter how great others say his writing is. His first impression to me was horribly boring and whiny. And that is how I see him today.
When I think of Card...I don't think of his homophobia. I think of the summer I spent forcing myself to read Alvin the Maker. And then I curse at myself. Especially when I remember the part with the damn afterbirth. *gag* Gross
That's how I feel about Speaker for the Dead lots of people love it...I was bored stiff and found it pretentious. Some of his stuff leaves me completely cold, other I like. To each.
I read Ender's Game as a short story. I think it worked better. When I read the novel later, it felt too padded.
I'm the opposite, I do agree with Orson Scott Card on most things, and I do love all his writing through Shadow of the Giant. I think his works now is trying to be more mainstream, than what it was before.
Mike said:"Many great writers, composers, poets etc. were vile people, but they were still talented (look at Wagner he was an idol of Adolf Hitler)"
I'd like to point out that Wagner died in 1883. Hitler wasn't born until 1889. That the Nazis glorified Wagner's music is no fault of Wagner's. Hitler also tried to make the German people idolize other greats of German heritage, and he personally idolized Frederick the Great. That doesn't make any of those historic figures vile. I know that's not exactly what you meant, but I feel the need to defend artists and others who are dead when someone else, such as the really and truly vile Hitler, tries to use them for his own purposes.
Wasn't just his (Wagner's) music that Hitler idolized........his views also( very racist).
But my point was Wagoner was a rather "not nice person" in his own right. Should that make us not enjoy his work? He wrote an essay (Das Judenthum in der Musik) which started out attacking Jewish composers and then attacked Jews in general...He was still a great and talented composer.
I understand a couple major aspects of the debate. On one hand, there's the issue of capital-A Art, which some people feel is created, then set free into the world to grow and develop it's own identity. On the other hand, Art often is used to represent, educate or encourage particular viewpoints. And then there is the question of if one is supporting the artist, is the viewpoint also being supported? Tricky, tricky.Someone like Card, now that I am aware of his viewpoints, I'm not so interested in supporting. So while I might check out one of his books to understand the importance of it (I think Enders was the first Hugo&Nebula?), I won't help him monetarily by buying it. Whereas, certain indie authors, whose writing I like AND who's politics I respect (say, Cat Valente or Sara Gran), I will buy books to support them as well as for my enjoyment. It's the best compromise I've figured out how to make on the issue of books and politics.
Carol wrote: "I understand a couple major aspects of the debate. On one hand, there's the issue of capital-A Art, which some people feel is created, then set free into the world to grow and develop it's own identity. On the other hand, Art often is used to represent, educate or encourage particular viewpoints. And then there is the question of if one is supporting the artist, is the viewpoint also being supported? Tricky, tricky.Someone Card, now that I am aware of his viewpoints, I'm not so interested in supporting. So while I might check out one of his books to understand the importance of it (I think Enders was the first Hugo&Nebula?), I won't help him monetarily by buying it. Whereas, certain indie authors, whose writing I like AND who's politics I respect (say, Cat Valente or Sara Gran), I will buy books to support them as well as for my enjoyment. It's the best compromise I've figured out how to make on the issue of books and politics. "
Great Summery, Carol!
If a person on their own comes to that conclusion I can see it. We simply have to be careful about trying to cost a writer or any other artist their livelihood because we disagree with what they may think. Most of Cards books have nothing to do with spreading his ideas or beliefs. I went to Goodkind. I don't agree with a lot of what he thinks but his earlier books in the Sword of Truth series were mostly simply fantasy. Later his work became almost exclusively ideological. That's when I stopped buying his work. Disagreeing with a person's views and ideas is one thing. Evangelizing to take away his or her livelihood is something else. As noted most of what Card writes is not written to convince anyone of anything (though his ideas do came across quite clearly in other books). We need to be aware of what and which a given book is rather than attacking a person on a personal level. I don't want to make you mad at me but....that's sort of what was done by the Council on Unamerican Activities. We each have to choose.
Kind of..."makes us no better than them" ....idea.
We simply have to be careful about trying to cost a writer or any other artist their livelihood because we disagree with what they may think.I disagree. If one wants to take a stand in the public arena, one must be willing to take the consequences (one hopes, polite consequences). I'm not obliged to condone viewpoints that are unacceptable to me because I want to support 'art.' Misogynistic literature might get a read from me, but I'm certainly not obligated to help support an author determined to write it. There's enough hate out there already, thanks. There's a difference, perhaps, between people that think of it as their 'livelihood,' and people who think of it as a platform, or people that have the sheer desire to create. If people are sincerely concerned about protecting "livelihood," then they should make choices that will be supported by their buyers. But I don't have to be that audience, nor support them if I disagree.
And I feel free to "evangelize" against those viewpoints once they make it to platform state, because the author is making it about a political statement/ platform, not about the art. They are leveraging their fame as an artist to support a political viewpoint. I can leverage my talent as a consumer to support or condone it. Card is using his fame to propagate a viewpoint. He's chosen to accept the risk to his livelihood. So does John Scalzi.
Well, I can see what you are saying......but the real truth is that you cannot un-learn something. And people who sell things need to remember that.
I can't support $$ people who do things I don't agree with. Not that they don't have the right to do whatever. But that comes with consequences. And as we all know, you can't have your cake and eat it, too.
There is a reason politics/religion are considered impolite subjects. Because it divides people. And people who sell things need to unify people...if only to buy their stuff.
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