Language Learners and Polyglots discussion
Our 2022 Foreign Language Reading Challenge Group Status Chat
Thanks for organizing this! I've decided onCamus - La Peste
Ionesco - Le Solitaire
Perec - Un homme qui dort
Reza - Art
The other two I'll decide on as I go, leaving space for discoveries and recommendations. :)
Anna wrote: "Thanks for organizing this! I've decided onCamus - La Peste
..."
Êvidemment tu veux commencer par te lancer un défi. Amuse-toi bien et bonne chance. Pour mon roman français, j'ai choisi PRINTEMPS ET AUTRES SAISONS par JMG Le Clézio. Par chance, l'as-tu lu?
Paul.
Hello, hej, halo,Thanks for organising this group. I’m looking forward to this challenge. I haven’t chosen my books yet. I am likely to begin with kids level books and go from there.
Sportyrod (Rod)
En fait, je n'ai jamais lu le clezio. Il y a quelques éditions traduites sur mon étagère. Si "Printemps" vous amuse, n'hésitez pas à me le faire savoir. Il me reste deux places pour le defi. :)
Definitely books in German; if I find something suitable, Italian.
So, 11 in French. I've decided on:-Guillaume Appollinaire: Alcools
-Honoré de Balzac: Le Colonel Chabert
-Kamel Daoud: Meursault, contre-enquête
-Anatole France: Les dieux ont soif
-Édouard Louis: Histoire de la violence
-François Mauriac: Thérèse Desqueuyroux
-Amélie Nothomb: Cosméthique de l'ennemi
-Françoise Sagan: Bonjour Tristesse
-Claude Simon: Le tramway
-Leïla Slimani: Le parfum des fleurs la nuit
-Éric Vuillard: Congo
Iamthesword wrote: "So, 11 in French. I've decided on:-Guillaume Appollinaire: Alcools
-Honoré de Balzac: Le Colonel Chabert
-JMG Le Clézio: Chanson brétonne + Enfant de la guerre
-Maryse Condé: Traversée de la Mangr..."
Is the Kamel Daoud novel a sort-of sequel to L'Etranger?
I'm very impressed with you all reading such highbrow literature, esp in French! 👏 Since I rely on my local free library for books, my selections are out of what has shown up in these languages, not necessarily what I'd pick to read if I could choose anything. The only exceptions are the Icelandic and the John Grisham which, no joke, I've had on my shelf for 23 years since I bought it on a trip to Amsterdam and still haven't gotten around to reading. High time!
Icelandic:
1. Short Stories in Icelandic -- Richards (easy reader for A2-B1)
Italian:
1. Lo spaventapasseri -- Morchio, Bruno (mystery)
2. Lezione di Tango -- Modignani, Sveva (popular women's lit)
French:
1. La Folle de Maigret - Simenon (mystery)
2. Le café des petits miracles - Barreau, Nicolas (cute YA)
3. La mélancolie des sirènes par trente mètres de fond -- Brussolo, Serge (horror-thriller)
4. Neverwhere - Gaiman, Neil (fantasy)
Dutch:
1. Voorgoed betoverd -- Carland, Barbara (fantasy romance)
2. Advocaat van de Duivel -- Grisham, John (legal thriller)
3. Een eiland in zee -- Thor, Annika (middle grade fic)
4. Solo -- Eisler, Barry (thriller)
5. Godin van de jacht -- van Royen, Helen (chic lit)
@Paul: Yes, it's a post colonial take on the setting
Thank you to Berengaria for inviting me to this group.My mother tongue is Spanish but I chose to function in GR in English. Most of my reading is in English, but I read a fair amount in French and more and more in Italian.
I think my challenge will be to read 4 in German, since I have left this language on the side for too long.
I can read Portuguese easily but because of starting with Italian, my Portuguese has been put to sleep for a while.
Recently I began learning Russian but my knowledge will remain in textbook territory for a while. I have though a wonderful bilingual edition of Eugenio Oneguin - Russian and Spanish.
Now I am currently reading Essays Two: On Proust, Translation, Foreign Languages, and the City of Arles, which will appeal to people in this group.
Kalliope wrote: "Thank you to Berengaria for inviting me to this group. "Welcome and you're listed! 4 in German it is. :-)
Anna wrote: "En fait, je n'ai jamais lu le clezio. Il y a quelques éditions traduites sur mon étagère. Si "Printemps" vous amuse, n'hésitez pas à me le faire savoir. Il me reste deux places pour le defi. :)"J'ai fini PRINTEMPS, la première nouvelle du livre de Le Clézio que j'ai choisi. Est-ce qu'elle m'a amusé? Je dois dire non parce que c'est beaucoup trop littéraire pour moi. Trop de mots et trop peu d'histoire. Mais je dois aussi dire que les mots sont vraiment beaux et sans doute, m'aideront avec mon francais. En tout cas, je vais le finir.
Berengaria wrote: "I'm very impressed with you all reading such highbrow literature, esp in French! 👏 Since I rely on my local free library for books, my selections are out of what has shown up in these languages, no..."Is NEVERWHERE a graphic novel or the full original novel in French. And is that the title that they used for the French edition??
Paul wrote: "Is NEVERWHERE a graphic novel or the full original novel in French. "It's the full original and yes, they kept the English title for the French edition. 😱 *shock* (I'm guessing because it's the name of a place and those are normally not translated in modern novels. )
Paul wrote: "J'ai fini PRINTEMPS, la première nouvelle du livre de Le Clézio que j'ai choisi."Congrats Paul on finishing part of your French novel goal! 👏 🏆
Berengaria wrote: "Paul wrote: "J'ai fini PRINTEMPS, la première nouvelle du livre de Le Clézio que j'ai choisi."Congrats Paul on finishing your French novel goal! 👏 🏆"
No, no ... not quite yet. PRINTEMPS is a novella in the collection PRINTEMPS ET AUTRES SAISONS. So I'm really only halfway through. The four short stories left are the "autres saisons".
I should add though that you've lit a fire underneath me. I'm reading it more regularly AND, any day now, I should take delivery of a book I ordered, LA MEURTRE DE ROGER ACKROYD, obviously the French translation of one of the greatest Agatha Christie classics.
Paul wrote: "Berengaria wrote: Congrats Paul on finishing your French novel goal! 👏 🏆"No, no ... not quite yet...."
Ah, I saw that too late and changed it to PART of your French goal.😇 Still, half way: excellent!
I'm all about lighting fires, so that's really great to hear. 🔥 Oh, Roger Ackroyd will be so much fun in French! I read Christie's little known "At Hotel Bertram" in Spanish this year and really enjoyed it. Great language practice.
Welcome new members:) I’m impressed with the range and lists I’m seeing. I don’t know many people who are into languages so I may get a bit chatty when I start the challenge. By complete coincidence I bought a book that is half in Spanish. I have no prior knowledge of Spanish so I am peeking through it so I can pick up a few words (not counting it in my challenge).
Sportyrod wrote: "Welcome new members:)"Cool, Rod! Spanish is close enough to English in many ways that you'll certainly be able to pick up some. And chat away. Language learning is a group activity really, as it's all about communication. :-)
Quick administrative question! Would you prefer that our comments be made in the language of the book that we're talking about or in English or both? My plan for my novels is to prepare a Goodreads review in the language of the novel (however weak my efforts might seem). I can provide a link to the review, I could copy and paste the foreign language review here directly, or I could provide the link and then post additional comments or a translation in English. Your thoughts?
Paul wrote: "Quick administrative question! "In this thread, English would be preferable so everybody could read your comments, but like you've been doing, direct questions/answers in the target language are good. We have a Spanish native speaker now, so you can pose questions directly if some come up to Kalliope. (Nice extra!)
Personally, I think it would be fun to know peoples' thoughts WHILE reading -- that is: status updates-- and how they are finding the language aspect of the book they are reading.
This is because most of us will be reading much more slowly than normal with these and it can start to get lonely/depressing to be going at such a crawl without feedback and encouragement. (Or at least that is my experience)
Status updates could be in both in English and the target language, if you like. I'll post one after this message as an example.
A link to the final review would be great! Perhaps with a general overview/summary in English as a "teaser". I'm sure many of us would like to admire your efforts. 😀
Berengaria wrote: "Paul wrote: "Quick administrative question! "In this thread, English would be preferable so everybody could read your comments, but like you've been doing, direct questions/answers in the target ..."
Merci beaucoup, danke sehr, muchas gracias ;-)
Sample "Status Update" for this thread:I've started in on "Short Stories in Icelandic" by Olly Richards (A2-B1 level) a bit early because I wanted to see if a) his recommended method of "story learning" works and b) test my own level of Icelandic. Is it really A2?
Answer:
a) I'm not yet convinced. It's more of a supportive method for the easily discouraged or newbies than something for more experienced learners / those who know how to study effectively.
If you are interested in his story-learning method, he explains it at length here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPqWN...
Reading through the first story "Crazy Meat Soup" using his method lead me to believe that it was a daft, slightly sexist written-for-learners story as you might find in most easy readers.
After looking up ALL unknown words and sentences, it turned out that the story was much better written and with a better vocabulary choice than it appeared from my...answer b) A1 (+ some advanced vocab) level. (The slightly sexist quality remained though)
I'm looking forward to story 2 to see if the same thing occurs!
Paul wrote: "Merci beaucoup, danke sehr, muchas gracias."de rien, keine Ursache, de nada! ;-)
Berengaria wrote: "Sample "Status Update" for this thread:I've started in on "Short Stories in Icelandic" by Olly Richards (A2-B1 level) a bit early because I wanted to see if a) his recommended method of "story le..."
Would it be worthwhile and interesting to the group members to have links to international testing centers to determine their estimated ranking in each of their target languages? I believe I'm correct that most languages are rate from A1(beginner) to C2(fluent).
Paul wrote: "Would it be worthwhile and interesting to the group members to have links to international testing centers to determine their estimated ranking in each of their target languages?I think it would, but I'm not sure if I've seen any that aren't for the big 4 (English, French, Spanish, German). And yes, it's A1 to C2...which is the highest of "independent use" (not fluency).
I have already started two foreign language books during the Xmas vacation: A Easy Reader with Italian short stories for intermediate learners and the book Ночь перед Рождеством (The Night before Christmas) by Nicolai Gogol. The later is quite a challenge, and I need to look up many words, so I hope to keep it up.
Keep up the good work Peter. I don’t think I know any Italian words that can’t be eaten.
Peter wrote: "I have already started two foreign language books during the Xmas vacation: ."I saw the Italian short story book in my feed when you updated, Peter. Looks like a good resource and I'm looking forward to your review of it. Gogol...goodness, that would be quite a challenge. Here's some applause to keep you motivated! 👏👏👏
Sorry for the double post! I think I posted this in the wrong thread. Here it is again:Well, I read four out of five of the short stories in PRINTEMPS ET AUTRES SAISONS and I decided that I just couldn't bear the idea of plowing through the fifth one. Despite the beauty of the writing and the fact that it was undoubtedly helping my French reading skills, the writing was just too repetitive AND, frankly, I was a little grossed out! I became convinced that this guy has a real thing for young girls of colour.
I'm shocked that this author actually won a Nobel Prize for literature in 2008.
Anyone else with thoughts on this author?
Here's the link to the review that I wrote in French:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Perhaps the French native speakers could help me out with a correction or two if I made any gross errors. Thanks in advance.
And, now I'm still waiting on delivery of Agatha Christie's La Meurtre de Roger Ackroyd
For everybody's New Year's enjoyment, here is a comedy video about "11 things only Polyglots will understand" from Olly Richards-- many of us are reading his short story books.I recognise all of these, but my biggest peeves are # 5 and # 8. I could strangle #8 and I've had the #11 conversation dozens of times.
What ones resonate with you all or trigger you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzT4G...
Paul wrote: "Sorry for the double post! I think I posted this in the wrong thread. Here it is again:"Congratulations, Paul! Quite right, don't need to plow on when it's not speaking to you. Looking forward to your review of Christie (when it arrives!)
Hi Everyone,I’m about to start my first foreign language book ever. It’s A2-B1 levels in Swedish/svenska. Wish me luck!
Rod
Sportyrod wrote: "Hi Everyone,I’m about to start my first foreign language book ever. It’s A2-B1 levels in Swedish/svenska. Wish me luck!
Rod"
Lycka till!
Sportyrod wrote: "Hi Everyone,I’m about to start my first foreign language book ever. It’s A2-B1 levels in Swedish/svenska. Wish me luck!
Rod"
Good luck and have fun!
Dave
Sportyrod wrote: "Hi Everyone, I’m about to start my first foreign language book ever. ..."Courage Rod, don't get frustrated if you don't understand everything at once. I often have to read passages twice of three time before I get the meaning.
Thanks for the encouragement :)I have just read the first of eight short stories in Swedish. My book is “Short Stories in Swedish” by Olly Richards. The level is A2-B1. I see that Berengaria is reading the Icelandic version.
Some questions and answers for/to myself:
1. Am I crazy for reading a Swedish book or can I actually do this?
2. Am I going to spend more time reading the dictionary than the book?
3. What is A2-B1 level actually like?
So based on the first short story, my answers are:
1. Yes and yes. The author’s advice was to read the chapter (there were four) first. Then read vocabulary words. Then re-read it for consolidation. This worked fairly well for me. I would normally have stopped at any unknown word but this method got me thinking and guessing so I could continue. I only misunderstood one part (in a small way) but fully got it on the second read. Not all new words are sticking yet, but they may come up again and we will see.
2. I have not used the dictionary once. There is a small vocabulary list at the end of each chapter. The book is self-sufficient re new words. So far.
3. A2 to B1 level. This is my first foreign language book so far so I have no comparison. I suspect the first story is the easiest. If the measure is my understanding at the second read, I am at least A2 but would guess I’m higher. For this to be so, means that I began with a reasonable vocabulary eg pronouns, basic verbs and adjectives. The level of the story was…siblings left London to go to Sweden. They fly there, meet a friend, get lost, get on wrong bus, catch a lorry back, meet someone on the bus who turns out to be his friend’s long-lost dad, he introduces the dad to the friend. There were parts about where to go, who to meet, when and where, some basic feelings. I know from this chapter that I can probably read better than I can speak the language as my grammar is awful. When I get lazy I used to just use the English sentence structure and let the Swedes figure it out. I need to work on that.
Rod
Sportyrod wrote: "Thanks for the encouragement :)I have just read the first of eight short stories in Swedish. My book is “Short Stories in Swedish” by Olly Richards. The level is A2-B1. I see that Berengaria is r..."
He must use the same stories in different languages. That's the same intro story as in my SHORT STORIES IN SPANISH!
Sportyrod wrote: "Thanks for the encouragement :)"Excellent, Rod!👏 If you can read without needing more than just what's in the chapter vocabulary help, and understand virtually everything in the plot, then I'd agree, you're at least a solid A2 for reading understanding. Congratulations! You can ace this!
Yep, that's the same intro story as in the Icelandic one, too, except placed in Iceland. (Which is a bit of stretch in credibility)
Critique:
I found the first story a tad bit sexist in that the the sister -- the main female character -- is portrayed as being painfully shy, nervous and in constant need of her (adventurous) brother's reassurance and presence.
If it's just the one story, okay, could be characterisation, but this dynamic seems to continue into the 2nd story, were the female character there is similarly leaning on the much more adventurous male character for guidance/information/instructions. I hope the dynamic doesn't continue on.
So far, that's the only critique I'd have of the book. I'm finding it quite helpful otherwise. How about you, two? Any critique thus far? Paul?
Berengaria wrote: "So far, that's the only critique I'd have of the book. I'm finding it quite helpful otherwise. How about you, two? Any critique thus far? Paul? "I've got to admit I never spotted that. I was probably too busy focusing on understanding the words without getting into reading below the surface
Oops. No more spoilers since we are reading the same story in a different language. But brace yourself Berengaria. The next story continues with the sexist roles. The A2 vibe continued. The main body is understandable in the first read and enriched in the second read with the understanding of the new vocabulary.
Sportyrod wrote: "Oops. No more spoilers since we are reading the same story in a different language. But brace yourself Berengaria. The next story continues with the sexist roles. "Competed the first chapter of story 2 and...yep.
Woman:"Which trail shall we take, the left or the right?"
Man: "Let's take the left"
Woman: "Uh, okay, but I think I'd rather take the one on the right."
Reader: THEN WHY DID YOU ASK HIS OPINION???
Man: 'Why?"
Woman: "Well, there are these rumours about that trail. Some people have seen a big, hairy creature there..."
Man: "Really? And you believe these rumours?"
Woman: "Uh...I don't know. (I guess) we can take that one. *she seemed worried*
Reader: LADY, SLUGS HAVE MORE SPINE
I'd read that it's common for the creators of language learning texts to show female characters as chronically confused, asking for impossible (= illogical) things, and as being agreeable to everything a male character suggests in order to demonstrate the grammar & vocab functions in a unit.
I seriously thought that was something from the 60s- '70s, as I have NEVER seen it in German language teaching materials. I'm kinda shocked to see it here in a brand new text, truth be told. (My book was first published in 2020)
I agree, Rod. Seems like A2 to me as well. I think my Icelandic is not as good as your Swedish, but I'm able to keep up mostly, too.
This is fun. It's like we're in a book club. All reading the same text at the same time, just in various languages. HOW COOL!!!!
Berengaria wrote: "Sportyrod wrote: "Oops. No more spoilers since we are reading the same story in a different language. But brace yourself Berengaria. The next story continues with the sexist roles. "Competed the ..."
No women at all in story #3.
I want to join with a goal of 12 books. I think one a month is a good goal, especially since I will be starting out with children's books, which I should get through faster
Rebecca (pagescollective) wrote: "I want to join with a goal of 12 books. I think one a month is a good goal, especially since I will be starting out with children's books, which I should get through faster"If you know what you're going to read can you share the titles. I'm looking for different ideas to challenge my (slowly) growing Spanish skills as well. I think there's a couple of others who are in for Spanish in the group as well.
Rebecca (pagescollective) wrote: "I want to join with a goal of 12 books. I think one a month is a good goal, especially since I will be starting out with children's books, which I should get through faster"Hi, Rebecca. Do I have your info correct? US/English and your 12 books are all for Spanish?
I finished the first book: Éric Vuillard's CONGO. An interesting take on a historical event (as all of his works). I liked it less than his book L'ORDRE DU JOUR, but it was still quite good.
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Here is where you can post how far along you are with your challenge, any questions you might have for others in the group (best way to learn vocab, resources, native speaker help etc) and general encouragement.
Let's admit, sometimes it really takes discipline to keep going with a new language. Getting pats on the back from others in the same boat makes it just that little bit easier! For that reason, make sure you tick "Notify me when people post" to this topic so you can keep up...or just drop by from time to time.
Introducing our group along with their country/native language & goal:
📚 Anna (Germany/German): 6 in French
📚 Berengaria (Germany/English): 5 in Dutch, 4 in French, 2 in Italian, 1 in Icelandic
📚 Calla (US/English): 6 books in/dealing with Arabic, 6 in French. 2 in Swahili and 1 in Mandarin Chinese.
📚 Dave (USA/English): 2 in Spanish, 1 in Russian
📚 Elias (UK/English): 52 in Swedish
📚 Fatima (Bahrain/ Arabic): re-reading 2 & reading 2 in Korean
📚 Iamthesword (Germany/German): 11 in French
📚 Jane (USA/English) : German, perhaps Italian. (exact goal undecided)
📚 Kalliope (Spain/Spanish): 4 in German, 12 in French and 12 in Italian.
📚 Lea (Germany/ German): five books in either Dutch, Norwegian, Danish, French or Spanish.
📚 Lenka (Czech Republic/ Czech) 6 in Spanish, and 1 book in German, French or Japanese.
📚 Paul (Canada/English): 1 easy reader German, 1 easy reader in Spanish, 1 novel in French
📚 Peter (Germany/German): English, Polish, Russian, Dutch, French and Italian (4 in 4 different languages out of these 6.)
📚 Rebecca (US/English): 12 in Spanish
📚 Sportyrod (Australia/English): 1 in Indonesian, 1 in Swedish
📚 Tau (Belgium/Dutch & French) 1 in Portuguese, 1 in German, 1 in Spanish, 1 in Afrikaans
📚 Vicky (UK/Greek) 1 in German, 1 in Russian