Language Learners and Polyglots discussion
Our 2022 Foreign Language Reading Challenge Group Status Chat
Paul wrote: "Berengaria wrote: "Kalliope wrote: Reading Agatha Christie in another language is a good way to go"
I really recommend Tintin as well. His stories have been translated into a zillion and one lang..."
P.S. They were originally written in French and I know that they have been translated into English, Spanish, and German at least. I would be shocked if there weren't some available in Italian, Swedish and even Icelandic.
Paul wrote: It's probably easier to read target language translations of books that were originally written..."
That's what I always recommend, too. Read a novel from your own culture in that language until you've got a fairly good vocab.
I do pretty well with the modern mysteries in Swedish that I've been able to get my hands on. I ADORE the Martin Beck series from Sjöwall/Wahlöö. Absolute magic in the original Swedish.
With French, in my experience, it's not the standard vocab you need to worry about, but the slang! French is a word-poor* language (in comparison to other langs) but they make up for it in the different types of slang, esp "criminal" slang or Parisian "street" slang that can render entire chapters unintelligible.
* don't take offence at that, it's what linguists say. Word-poor here means that many French words are made up of word combinations instead of a single word. Like "le X de Y". That significantly cuts down the actual words and ups the "circumlocations" or descriptive phrases for things.
Re Olly. The stories are far-fetched. Some words are obscure but most are common enough. Sometimes I miss a word and it changes the context but I usually get it next read. I am happy with the stories in general. They are simple, build up, repeat so it has helped me learn. I am forgiving of the plot and flaws so long as I keep learning.
Sportyrod wrote: "Re Olly. The stories are far-fetched. Some words are obscure but most are common enough. Sometimes I miss a word and it changes the context but I usually get it next read. I am happy with the stori..."That's probably the key. Are you forgiving of the plot and flaws if it helps you learn?
So far I am. My expectations are set for learning so I can put aside my eye-rolling moments during the flaws. But I do notice them. I thought the adoption/belated reunification was quite insensitive but I figured he just wanted to use certain types of words (re relations) and didn’t think beyond it.
Well, I've finished my first Foreign Language goal book, Spanish novel for upper-beginners (A2): Enigma en la playa. Downloadable Audio . Vol.8. Spanish Edition.: Learn Spanish. Improve Spanish Reading. Graded reading. Aprender español. Lecturas graduadas..It was a good challenge for me. I ended up needing to look up a fair amount of words and phrases.
It was a little disappointing in that the story was less than half the book. The remainder was review of the grammar used in the book. Even though the grammar review was good, I was looking forward to more of the story, lol.
Now I need to look for another A2 level Spanish reader. That's about the right level for me right now.
Congratulations. What was the story about? Did you keep track of some new words or did you look them up and continue on? It’s good that you were happy with the level.
Dave wrote: "Well, I've finished my first Foreign Language goal book, "YAY!!! Congratulations! 👏 Wooooooooo!!! Knew you could do it.
Good questions from Rod: what was the story about and are you going to learn new words before going on?
Dave wrote: "Well, I've finished my first Foreign Language goal book, [book:Spanish novel for upper-beginners (A2): Enigma en la playa. Downloadable Audio . Vol.8. Spanish Edition.: Learn Spanish. Improve Spani..."Congrats!!!
Rod and Berengaria, The story was good. It was about a guy (painter) living in a haunted house on the beach. He wants to buy the house. A neighbor tells him about how it became haunted when a large number of local fisherman were killed in a bad storm. She told him the story during a storm, of course, and she disappeared when the power went out :) I looked up the words as I went and then reviewed them again in the grammar summary at the end. I should review them again every now and then.
That sounds like a really interesting story. A great choice.
Dave wrote: "Rod and Berengaria, The story was good. It was about a guy (painter) living in a haunted house on the beach. He wants to buy the house. A neighbor tells him about how it became haunted when a large..."That sounds like an actual story and not a learner text. Esp with the end like that. Cool!
Nothing to do with our language challenge, but I just wanted to let you all know: One of my GR friends added my free-to-read bronzepunk novella to GR. This means you can read something of mine (short) and get GR reading credit! (And leave a rating/review if you feel like it)
Bronzepunk is a genre of historical light sci-fi set during the Bronze Age, normally in Egypt.
The title is: Distantly Falling Stars
Blurb: "Seti, a humble civil servant at the Office of Information, is selected for an important mission to retrieve a cluster of 'fallen stars' with very special, and very secret, properties.
But why has he -- ambitionless and without influence as he is -- been chosen? And just who wants these particular stars at all costs?
As Seti becomes more and more involved in the machinations of shadowy figures, he realises he has his own personal mission to fulfil, and it has nothing to do with the one he was selected for. "
Here's the link: https://www.wattpad.com/story/1734484...
If it doesn't work for you, I can send you a google doc.
That’s great news. I have just finished the first chapter and I am so in.
Hello everyone, I'm a bit late to the party, but there are still 10 months and 20 days left, so I guess it's still worth it if you let me join :-) I love this challenge!
I'm Czech, but I read in English most of the time (I should set myself a separate challenge to read a few books in Czech, actually).
This year I want to focus more on Spanish, so the goal is to read 6 books in Spanish, and 1 book in the other languages I speak or study, German, French and Japanese. I will award myself extra credit if I read something in Russian (any tips, anyone?)
Lenka wrote: "Hello everyone, "Ahoj Lenka! Welcome to the group! I've put you on the members list so feel free to jump in and let us know where you are with your goal reading and how you're enjoying your books as you read them.
This is an pretty active chat thread, so if you set it to "notify" you'll be able to keep up with posts.
Peter is really the only one doing Russian in the group. He'd be the one to ask if you are interested in Russian writers.
Hi Lenka,Welcome to the club. You have some pretty interesting languages to choose from.
Rod
Berengaria wrote:Ahoj Lenka! Welcome to the group! I've put you on the members list so feel free to jump in and let us know where you are with your goal reading and how you're enjoy..."
Thanks for the welcome! I hope I won't disappoint you, or myself :-)
Sportyrod wrote: "Hi Lenka,Welcome to the club. You have some pretty interesting languages to choose from.
Rod"
Hi Rod,
Thanks! Languages are a passion for me and they are ALL interesting :-)
Berengaria wrote: "Nothing to do with our language challenge, but I just wanted to let you all know: One of my GR friends added my free-to-read bronzepunk novella to GR. This means you can read something of mine (..."
Do you have to create an account to read or will the document open?
Dave wrote: "Rod and Berengaria, The story was good. It was about a guy (painter) living in a haunted house on the beach. He wants to buy the house. A neighbor tells him about how it became haunted when a large..."This does seem like a very interesting read.
Since a good number of us are reading french how about we do a read along some time in the future?
Calla wrote: "One of my GR friends added my free-to-read bronzepunk novella to GR. This means you can read s..."I think you have to create a free account, but I can send you a google doc with the story if you'd rather not do that.
I just finished the short stories in Swedish. I had to wrap it up as I am back at uni next week 😢. I have drafted my review but won’t post it until Berengaria and Paul W have finished reading their versions.
Sportyrod wrote: "I just finished the short stories in Swedish. I had to wrap it up as I am back at uni next week 😢. I have drafted my review but won’t post it until Berengaria and Paul W have finished reading their..."Don't hold back on my account, Sportyrod. I'm moving along like a snail in molasses because I've been focusing on my French novel (and my English novel, of course). It might be as much as 3 more weeks before I get to the end. And, when push comes to shove, a spoiler or two isn't going to make any difference to the book's teaching ability in Spanish.
Sportyrod wrote: "I just finished the short stories in Swedish"Go ahead and post your review, Rod. I'm almost finished with the 2nd to last story, but I've hit that wall of knowledge and the level is over my head now and I'm going very slowly. As Paul says, spoilers won't matter at this point. :-)
Sportyrod wrote: "I just finished the short stories in Swedish. I had to wrap it up as I am back at uni next week 😢. I have drafted my review but won’t post it until Berengaria and Paul W have finished reading their..."Congrats!!
Berengaria wrote: "Calla wrote: "One of my GR friends added my free-to-read bronzepunk novella to GR. This means you can read s..."I think you have to create a free account, but I can send you a google doc with the..."
Please send the google doc, when you get a chance. Thanks
Ok thanks. I have posted a review of it on it. It’s too long and self-indulgent to post here but the main points are:Did I learn more words? Definately.
Did I learn most new words? Uh uh. When I read the vocab list at the end, I didn’t get them all. I guess that means I am learning as I go and have the abililty to make sense of new words in context but not ready to use them all for myself.
How did I deal with the increasing difficulty? At first it was a breeeze. I read as instructed without translating. As words got harder, I had a few sneak peeks and in the last two chapters I went straight to the lexicon as there were uncommon words.
Side note: I have been listening to the Swedish auditions competition to qualify for Eurovision and have enjoyed following-ish the commentary in Swedish.
Thanks for the encouragement for my first challenge book.
Calla wrote: "Please send the google doc, when you get a chance. Thanks"Hi Calla,
Here's the link.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1l...
Since we're not following each other I can't send it to you PM. :-)
Sportyrod wrote: "Ok thanks. I have posted a review of it on it. It’s too long and self-indulgent to post here but the main points are:Did I learn more words? Definately.
Did I learn most new words? Uh uh. When I..."
Do you happen to know if Olly Richard's prepared books in our various languages that followed in sequence (and, of course, in increasing difficulty) from the one that we read here?
Paul wrote: "Sportyrod wrote: "Ok thanks. I have posted a review of it on it. It’s too long and self-indulgent to post here but the main points areFor Spanish, yes he has a few others, but not for Swedish / Icelandic...or at least they aren't listed on Amazon or here. So, we couldn't go on to another one.
But for you...
Spanish Short Stories For Beginners Volume 2: 8 More Unconventional Short Stories to Grow Your Vocabulary and Learn Spanish the Fun Way!
and then he's got one in Intermediate (B1- B2) that's very similar.
Then he's also got a "Topics that Matter" series which is for non-fic and at the intermediate level. The ones available in Spanish are about WW2 and climate change. Then he's got a Social Media conversations in Spanish.
Nothing there for Swedish or Icelandic, though. Not enough call for them, I'd imagine.
Berengaria wrote: "Paul wrote: "Sportyrod wrote: "Ok thanks. I have posted a review of it on it. It’s too long and self-indulgent to post here but the main points areFor Spanish, yes he has a few others, but not fo..."
Thanks very much!
I started my first non-English book of the year, Patria by Fernando Aramburu. It's going well, the chapters are short so it feels like I'm making good progress :-) But the book has over 600 pages, so it will take a while...
Thanks for the info Berengaria.Lenka, 600 pages! You will be an expert by the time you finish :)
Lenka wrote: "I started my first non-English book of the year, Patria by Fernando Aramburu.."Good thing it has short chapters! :-) It took me two months to read a almost 500 page novel in Italian last year, so I know what you're up against.
Sportyrod wrote: "Rod, did you also have the impression that the last story (something like "Capsule") in Olly's book was easier to read than the one before it, "Lara the Invisible Woman?
I found both of the last two stories difficult. The language was very uncommon and quite a struggle.
Sportyrod wrote: "I found both of the last two stories difficult. The language was very uncommon and quite a struggle."Almost there! I'll add a comment when I'm finished as well. You've both piqued my interest now to see what's coming.
When you're learning a foreign language, do you find that your reading comprehension vocabulary and your speaking ability vocabulary are two different lists that seem to be stored in different places in your brain? That they are definitely not the same set of words?Here's an example. In Olly Richard's short story, Tierras Desconocidas, he writes the sentence, "El Gran Salón era un edificio de madera muy grande." In English, "The Great Hall was a very large wooden building." The Spanish word for "wood", "madera" had been used on a good number of occasions in previous stories in the collection and when I read it this time, I understood the word without even a moment's second thought or difficulty.
BUT it occurred to me that I would likely have had considerable difficulty thinking of the word if I had been talking with a Spaniard and wanted to SAY something in Spanish about "wood".
Does anyone else experience this distinction? Any thoughts or suggestions?
Paul wrote: "When you're learning a foreign language, do you find that your reading comprehension vocabulary and your speaking ability vocabulary are two different lists that seem to be stored in different plac..."That's totally natural. It's the difference between passive and active vocabulary. Your passive vocab -- the words you recognise when you read/hear them -- will always be much bigger than your active vocabulary. (Consider people with foreign parents who understand their parents native language perfectly, but can't say more than 2 words in it.)
This is why Olly's claim of "just read and you'll learn the words!" is not *exactly* true. What you will do is learn to RECOGNISE the words. That's great, because it contributes to your ability in the passive skills (reading/listening), but that doesn't not enable you to independently use them (or only a few) in the active skills of speaking/writing.
To move new words from passive to active (or simply to retain them in passive), you have to do one of two things:
1. actually use them in conversation
2. actively repeat them with an app like Memrise until when you think "wood in Spanish" your brain automatically spits out "madera".
This process takes a much longer time and a lot of repetition. It's normally why spending 15-30 minutes every day reviewing vocabulary is universally recommended.
The motto applies here: if you don't use it, you lose it!
I just finished up my goal book for Icelandic! *yay*! That's 3 goal books down, 8 more to go!
3/11: Françoise Sagan: Bonjour Tristesse. Kind of a coming of age thriller (?) in the heat of Southern France. Very nice one.
Iamthesword wrote: "3/11: Françoise Sagan: Bonjour Tristesse. Kind of a coming of age thriller (?) in the heat of Southern France. Very nice one."Way to go.
Well done iamthesword. Glad you liked it.
Paul, re the speaking ability and vocabulary. I’m only a new foreign language reader but my experience is the same. I can recognise the words well enough. But ask me three days later what the word for wood is and I have no idea. Some words interest me more than others. I like words to do with human experience as it helps me give opinions and what not. I find texting in that language helps alot. I have been exchanging opinions re the eurovision song contest with friends using some of the new vocabulary I have. It’s been fun.
Lenka wrote: " (I should set myself a separate challenge to read a few books in Czech, actually). ..."This is also what happens to me with Spanish. I read very little in my own language, although I am currently reading one. I had also been thinking of adding 12 to my challenge.
Berengaria wrote: "Word-poor here means that many French words are made up of word combinations instead of a single word. Like "le X de Y". That significantly cuts down the actual words and ups the "circumlocations" or descriptive phrases for things.."This is very interesting about French, Berengaria. Several comments on this:
I guess this is the result of the Académie (similar in Spanish too).
The joining of two words with a "de" - isn't that equivalent to the German sticking them together?
A good writer to read is Racine - whose vocabulary was limited (I think around 2k words) but whose plays are so very powerful.
French is still, so far, my preferred language.
I am a bit behind in my challenge - still on my second Italian but hope to finish it this week and start my second French.I am thinking of La femme qui attendait
Language Learners and Polyglots
Books mentioned in this topic
De eerlijke vinder (other topics)Monterosso mon amour (other topics)
Gut gegen Nordwind (other topics)
Love Virtually (other topics)
Die Toten von Vindobona (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Alex Wagner (other topics)Alex Wagner (other topics)
Alex Wagner (other topics)
Shakirah Bourne (other topics)
Carmen Lyra (other topics)
More...
Reading Agatha Christie in another language is a good way to go"
I really recommend Tintin as well. His stories have been translated into a zillion and one languages. They're are wonderfully entertaining, contain some great idiomatic structures, and the pictures are absolutely wonderful in helping figure out what the words are saying so you don't have to constantly refer to a dictionary.