Language Learners and Polyglots discussion
Our 2022 Foreign Language Reading Challenge Group Status Chat
Paul wrote: "Are you making your own vocabulary list..."
You can still see & copy the format: target language: native language. Easy to put over into Spanish for your own course.
But you're the only one in Spanish. Rod's reading in Swedish and me in Icelandic. We're a 3-lang book club! (ain't that cool?)
I downloaded the free part of the Memrise app but couldn’t find the link. I haven’t written down any new vocabulary. I think I will do that for my Indonesian books as I need to improve that language a lot more. If you guys want to set chapter time targets let me know, as it is fun to read at the same time.
Sportyrod wrote: "I downloaded the free part of the Memrise app but couldn’t find the link. I haven’t written down any new vocabulary. I think I will do that for my Indonesian books as I need to improve that languag..."Try this: https://app.memrise.com/course/612172...
A time target would be a good idea!
Just wanted to say, my first French goal book is GREAT! It's a sci-fi dystopian novel that was published in 1982 but takes place in 2015, and is set in what I would guess to be a fantasy Luxembourg or Elsass (unsure how you spell that area of France next to Germany where Strasbourg is).
Just super writing and with the exception of technical terms about diving, fairly easy to read for the B2 in French crowd. I'm not having much trouble understanding and I'm not using a dictionary. Ugly cover, but great story.
Alsace :) (geography nerd here). Sounds like you’re off to a great start. Sci-fi is a cool category. I looked up this book to see if there is an English version as I am yet to read Luxembourg in my other challenge, but it’s not yet.
I'm making progress on my Spanish A2 easy reader. It's been many years since my Spanish classes so it's a bit slow.But the story is actually fairly good so far.
Dave wrote: "I'm making progress on my Spanish A2 easy reader. It's been many years since my Spanish classes so it's a bit slow.But the story is actually fairly good so far."
Yay! Very glad to hear the story is good, Dave. That's important for re-reading and consolidation at the end.👏
Hey Dave, I’m glad you’re enjoying the book and the challenge so far :)
Rod
Everyone is doing very well here.I just finished my second read of Novecento. Un monologo. It is a short book so a second read is good for language practice. I hope to write the review today.
Now I have to think of my next Italian and French books for February.
I may read Omero, Iliade, given that Baricco's style is ok for me.
As for the French candidate I have several - will post the chosen one later on.
Dave wrote: "I'm making progress on my Spanish A2 easy reader. It's been many years since my Spanish classes so it's a bit slow.But the story is actually fairly good so far."
Any questions, Dave, I'll be glad to help.
Kalliope wrote: "Dave wrote: "I'm making progress on my Spanish A2 easy reader. It's been many years since my Spanish classes so it's a bit slow.But the story is actually fairly good so far."
Any questions, Dave,..."
Thanks Kalliope, I appreciate that. I'm doing good so far. Between my memory of the language, online translators and the summaries at the end of each chapter, I'm getting there.
There will definitely need to be reread of the book too.
Epic fail. I was reading a short story and kept thinking how weird it was. Apparently a man goes around showing people a picture of a kiss and do they recognise one. Nope, the word was not kiss. It was ‘chest’ as in treasure chest. A similar sounding word that I thought I knew so didn’t check. Has anyone else messed anything up like that?
Sportyrod wrote: "Epic fail. I was reading a short story and kept thinking how weird it was. Apparently a man goes around showing people a picture of a kiss and do they recognise one. Nope, the word was not kiss. It..."Sportyrod - what language are you dealing with? there are so many being shuffled here...
Sportyrod wrote: "Epic fail. I was reading a short story "😅 Yes, I have! I messed up kissa (to pee) and kiss some years ago when I started learning Swedish. Can't remember the context, but it got funny when I figured out my mistake and stopped rolling my eyes and slapping my own forehead.
Not a fail at all, really. This just means you're starting to have typical language learner experiences, Rod. Congratulations! *pats you on back*
I just finished up that story -- and it's weird even if you know the word. Kista is, btw, a pan-Germanic word and very similar in the whole language family.
Swedish: kista
Icelandic: kista
German: Kiste
Dutch: kist
English chest (just exchange the ch for a k)
Berengaria wrote: "Sportyrod wrote: "Epic fail. I was reading a short story "😅 Yes, I have! I messed up kissa (to pee) and kiss some years ago when I started learning Swedish. Can't remember the context, but it go..."
Some language learning applications would call "kiss" and "kissa" false friends. If you're learning two related languages, such as German and Swedish, or French, Italian, and Spanish, you'll probably encounter dozens of false friend pairings over the learning process. If you pair up any language with English, the problem problem becomes much worse.
Paul wrote: "Berengaria wrote: "Sportyrod wrote: "Epic fail. I was reading a short story "Absolutely, Paul. I always go over false friends with my students because they're so tricky. Especially new words created to sound like English, which aren't, or aren't really.
Example: "cell phone" in German is "Handy". Because it fits in your hand! The word looks like English and is English, but with a completely different meaning...which most Germans don't know. This was a totally created false friend.
Even more fun are the half-false friends. That is, those that DO mean the same things some of the time, but not other times.
Example: German "Perl".
If you are talking about the jewellery item that comes from oysters, then Perl = pearl.
But if you're talking about anything else, Perl = bead.
German says "pearls of sweat" and "wooden pearls" when we'd say 'beads'. Beads of sweat and wooden beads.
Language is really interesting! (And full of pitfalls like these)
Berengaria wrote: ".... Especially new words created to sound like English, which aren't, or aren't really ...."My favourite in this category is "public viewing", which in Germany denotes a broadcast of a sports event on an open air mega screen, whereas (as I am told) in English it means "to lie in state".
Peter wrote: "My favourite in this category is "public viewing", which in Germany denotes a broad..."And "home office"! I've been told it's "remote working" in proper English.
Hey English speakers who live in English-speaking countries! Would you say "public viewing" for a sports event shown on an open-air screen or that you are doing "home office" work if you are working from home due to the pandemic?
Let us know what the REAL English is, please!
Berengaria wrote: "Peter wrote: "My favourite in this category is "public viewing", which in Germany denotes a broad..."And "home office"! I've been told it's "remote working" in proper English.
Hey English speake..."
I would say that "home office" and "remote working" are both perfectly good English expressions but they are not interchangeable. "Home Office" is a noun that refers to the place where someone "works remotely". In addition, "working remotely" can refer to working ANYWHERE out of the normal office location - cottage, on vacation, on the train, in a client's office, etc.
Berengaria wrote: "Peter wrote: "My favourite in this category is "public viewing", which in Germany denotes a broad..."And "home office"! I've been told it's "remote working" in proper English.
Hey English speake..."
I would use the term "public viewing" definitely in connection with an open casket at a funeral and definitely not in connection with the airing of a sports event.
Paul wrote: "Berengaria wrote: "Peter wrote: "My favourite in this category is "public viewing", which in Germany denotes a broad..."And "home office"! I've been told it's "remote working" in proper English.
..."
Great, thanks! How would you use "home office" in a sentence, then?
Germans say :"due to the pandemic, I'm doing home office" or "my employer requires me to work in home office".
This doesn't mean working in an office room you have in your home -- most people don't have that -- but doing their work on their own computer and then sending it to the company.
Berengaria wrote: "This doesn't mean working in an office room you have in your home "In Canada (and I believe in the USA), that's EXACTLY what it means. For example, "I've converted the third bedroom in our home into a home office."
I agree mostly with Paul’s comments. A home office is a place in your own home. Working remotely is working on your laptop at any place eg airport, utility van, home.There must be some german language quirk if that is how the term is used. In Swedish they say “what is the clock” instead of what is the time. So it could be like that?
Public viewing is harder. I’d say the term is not used often. The open casket example was also what came to mind first. My second thought is “there is a public viewing of the woolly mammoth at the exhibition”. It is not normally for the public but is for a short while. I think (in Australia) you could say it was for a sports event. We also have open-air cinemas in the park and would say we are going to that. So public viewing would be more of a spontaneous, perhaps once-off connotation. Even if I was watching the Australian Open (tennis again, sorry) outside the arena on the big screen I wouldn’t say public viewing. But if someone said they were, I wouldn’t think anything of it and it would make sense.
Sportyrod wrote:There must be some german lan..."
It's the using of English to sound cool with little regard to what those words actually mean or how they are used in English. Fairly typical for "modern" German, so not exactly a quirk of the language itself but more a quirk of Germans.
So what do people in Australia say to describe when they have to work from home due to the pandemic? Just "I'm working from home now?" and what would you say to describe watching a sporting event outside on a big screen?
“I’m working from home at the moment” is the norm now.I don’t think the sports showing have a succinct description. I reckon it would be more longwinded like, “they’re playing the tennis on the big screen outside the arena if you missed out on getting tickets”.
I asked my husband his opinion, he said “why don’t you watch it at one of the outdoor free viewing areas”.
Sportyrod wrote: "“I’m working from home at the moment” is the norm now.""Outdoor free viewing area"....that sounds good! I'll use that now. Thank Brandon on behalf of me and my students. Okay, now I know how to translate "Home Office" into English. Cool. This is what happens when you don't live in an English speaking country for decades! :-)
And you watch out for kissa, kista, kyssa and kassa! 🇸🇪🐀
For those of us reading Olly's Short Stories, I'd say that the fourth entry The Watch is beginning to enter the realm of genuine story. But the FIFTH story The Chest definitely starts with a rather intriguing chapter that has definitely caught my interest. I'm actually looking forward to reading the second chapter in the story, not for the language learning content, but to find out where the plot is headed. Waytogo, Olly!!AND, in the bargain, the reading level has definitely been ratcheted up a notch.
Just finished my 2nd goal novel and 1st for French . Woo hoo! La mélancolie des sirènes par trente mètres de fond is an extremely well-written dystopia sci-fi novel that takes place in a fantasy land I think it based on Luxembourg because it uses what I think is meant to approximate (or is) the Germanic language of Lëtzebuergesch.
The story:
An accident 3 years previously flooded out the subway/Underground of the city of Alzenberg killing thousands. The city government -- led by the mayor -- has set up a police unit of scuba divers to document the dead. That is, dive into the flooded tunnels and search the bodies for ID or identifying items, but not to bring the bodies to the surface.
What the divers discover down there is...really not what you'd expect! (No, not monsters or aliens)
The novel was written in the 80s and so has traits of early and mid-century sci-fi ideas which are somewhat old-fashioned today. The writing, though!!! The writing is so vivid -- you can imagine yourself right down there in the flooded tunnels. The level, I'd say is at a solid B2.
I'd deffo read more Serge Brussolo!
Paul wrote: "For those of us reading Olly's Short Stories, I'd say that the fourth entry The Watch is beginning to enter the realm of genuine story. But the FIFTH story The Chest definitely starts with a rather..."I've finished that one...let's see what you think of it when you get to the reveal at the end! :-)
toutes nos félicitations!! 🎉📕Well done on your first French novel. The story sounds interesting. Would expect higher than B2 level. Re the Olly crew…I have also read that story, it is interesting isn’t it.
Sportyrod wrote: "toutes nos félicitations!! 🎉📕"Merci! Shall we set a date to be finished with the next story, the Viking one called something like "Discovered Land" ?
How about next Sunday?
I finished the Viking one, so ready anytime.
Berengaria wrote: "Sportyrod wrote: "toutes nos félicitations!! 🎉📕"Merci! Shall we set a date to be finished with the next story, the Viking one called something like "Discovered Land" ?
How about next Sunday?"
You folks go ahead but that's probably too quick for me. I'm still in the middle of The Chest and I've got four other books besides that one on the go simultaneously including Le Meurtre de Roger Ackroyd! So, if you talk about it, hold off on the spoilers, please.
Sportyrod wrote: "I finished the Viking one, so ready anytime."Jackrabbit!! 🐰⚡️😄
Paul wrote:Merci! Shall we set a date to be finished with the next story, the Viking one called something like "Discovered Land" ?"
Okay, no spoilers. How's Roger Ackroyd coming? Is the French at your level?
Hello everyone. I have started my February book in Italian. Alessandro Baricco’s Omero.
Kalliope wrote: "Hello everyone. I have started my February book in Italian. Alessandro Baricco’s Omero."
Excellent! Let us know periodically how it's going for you as you read. :-)
Berengaria wrote: "How's Roger Ackroyd coming? Is the French at your level?"The level is absolutely perfect and I'm enjoying it immensely. I'm reading French first, one chapter at a time, and following it up with the English, same chapter, just to make sure that I've got it right. As I read the French, I know that I'm still translating SOME of it but definitely not all. There's a good bit going from the page to the brain and understanding still in French! Whoopee!
2/11 in French: François Mauriac: Thérèse Desqueyroux. 1920s literary French was a challenge, but I liked the book. The rhythm was quite special (in a good way).
Iamthesword wrote: "2/11 in French: François Mauriac: Thérèse Desqueyroux. 1920s literary French was a challenge, but I liked the book. The rhythm was quite special (in a good way)."Yay! 👏 Glad to hear you liked it and it was not tooooooo complicated for you. 2 down, 9 more to go!
Berengaria wrote: "Excellent! Let us know periodically how it's going for you as you read. :-)"
I am enjoying it so far. With this read I shoot two birds with the same arrow - an Italian book and also a Homeric on. This year I would like to reread the Iliad as well as a few rewritings of the epic. There are a few around.
As for this one - Baricco has a style that makes one think of fairy tales, but his language is rich. I am noting down several new words, or words that I understand but want to make more "active".
From what I have seen, it is Peter, Berengaria and I having chosen Italian as a language target.I found this short video on Baricco and Melville... in case Peter and Berengaria want to practice listening to Italian.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iqO6...
Iamthesword wrote: "I finished the first book: Éric Vuillard's CONGO. An interesting take on a historical event (as all of his works). I liked it less than his book L'ORDRE DU JOUR, but it was still quite good."Those look good. Thank you.
Paul wrote: "And, now I'm still waiting on delivery of Agatha Christie's La Meurtre de Roger Ackroyd ..."
I read this recently, in the original. An interesting story that picks up the twist from The Shooting Party.
Reading Agatha Christie in another language is a good way to go. I read several of hers when I was on an intermediate in German. I was staying in a house in Bonn and they had a good collection. In German the usually shorter English sentences stayed short....
:)
Berengaria wrote: "I've finished that one...let's see what you think of it when you get to the reveal at the end! :-)"A little bit of a mental stretch to think that the three young people would just pull up roots and take off to Barcelona at the request of a stranger but, still and all, it's a nice little heartwarming story that 1) definitely brings on a smile, 2) definitely stretches the vocabulary capability, and 3) is interesting enough to make you read just a little more quickly without checking the vocabulary list at the end of the chapter. So I'd say, "Mission Accomplished".
On to TIERRAS DESCONOCIDAS. I'd translate that in English as (believe it or not), "Terra Incognita" because that's a Latin expression that often shows up in English text.
Kalliope wrote: Reading Agatha Christie in another language is a good way to go"
I agree. It was recommended to me to read Christie in Swedish when I was looking around for something not too difficult but still interesting to practice the lang with. It was a good choice. Came from another Swedish learner.
Man, don't ask booksellers though! I've found they are the WORST for rec'ing books for learners to read in their native language. They'll hand you 200-year old classics or recent literary prize winners that are so culturally based you don't understand a word. (As if you, at B1 Spanish can handle Don Quixote or Javier Marías. )
Berengaria wrote: "Kalliope wrote: Reading Agatha Christie in another language is a good way to go"
It's probably easier to read target language translations of books that were originally written in your native language. That pretty much eliminates cultural issues. I'm wondering, however, how I would fare reading a contemporary suspense thriller or cozy mystery written in French by a French author (or in your case, how you might make out with some of the modern Swedish noir psychological thriller authors like Camilla Lackberg, for example)
Paul wrote: A little bit of a mental stretch to think that the three young people would j..."Great that you liked it and the end didn't disappoint too much. :-)
I was annoyed right out of the gate with the guy and his silly treasure hunt and had no interest in whatever protracted game he was playing . Esp when it turned out to be "So, I'm your uncle who gave you all away when you were small ...but now that I'm old and you all have stable lives, why don't we become a family again and sing Kumbaya together, whadda ya say?" Pfffttttt..... take a long walk off a short pier?
Olly is good with the repetition and slow climb in difficulty, I'll give him that. But he's a pitiful storyteller, IMHO. (Admittedly, telling a good story with only basic vocab is tough. I've seen it done much better than this, however.)
Side note:
A fair bit of the vocab in the Icelandic stories is listed as "rare" by the online dictionary I use. There are far more common words/phrases that whoever translated these decided not to use. I'd like to have had a note from the translator on why they made the decisions they did. Would help understand why certain sentences are rendered as they are.
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Are you making your own vocabulary lists for subsequent st..."
LOL, I wonder if your Icelandic vocabulary will be of any use to my attempts to learn Spanish! Duh ... how stupid! I totally forgot that you were reading the stories in a different language than we were!