World, Writing, Wealth discussion
World & Current Events
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If you're not in the U.S., what's up in your part of the world?
Wasn't intrigued enough to listen to court gossips, but enjoyed Queen's recalling an encounter with Yuri Gagarin: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...
If there is one benefit to this fiasco, it shows their lives are a screwed up as ours.
In NZ at the moment: A strange fascination with yachting, not that what is going on represents traditional yachts. We have monohulls on a single foil sailing at over 40 knots in a 12 knot wind! Now the America's cup is over we can go back to more traditional ways of wasting time. However, the high speeds are indeed a tribute to the use of physics, although I suspect there will be no more local physicists.The source of angst is that Australia, who like to throw out any person who has broken a law in Australia and has another citizenship, at least in principle, (it cancelled one woman's Australian citizenship when it turned out she qualified for NZ citizenship) has thrown a 15 year-old boy at NZ. Boy has no known relations in NZ, has never lived in NZ as far as we know, and this is in violation of international law, according to an Australian lawyer. How would you like to have to create a life for yourself at the age of 15 in a country where you knew nobody and you had no money?
Ian wrote: "How would you like to have to create a life for yourself at the age of 15 in a country where you knew nobody and you had no money?..."Jacinda, the Wonder Woman, would probably pick him up at the airport to set him up for the brightest future
Actually, nobody told Jacinda until she read about it in the newspaper. She is unlikely to be happy with her Minister of Home Affairs, but for reasons of political correctness there is probably not much she can do.
Ian wrote: "... How would you like to have to create a life for yourself at the age of 15 in a country where you knew nobody and you had no money?..."That sounds horrendous. I don't want to imagine it. To go through that now would seem easier, especially when going from countries similiar in tech, social structure, climate, etc., than 30 years ago. Historically, children alone is not a surprise. We try not to think about it, especially when you consider the history of child labor.
In America, it's January 1, 1892 - the first day Ellis Immigration center is open. The first immigrant, Annie Moore. That day was her 15th birthday. She had left Cork County, Ireland with 2 younger brothers and sailed for 12 days. They were meeting their parents who had come to America 3 years before. A statue of Annie was put on the island in remembrance of the number of children that immigrated. (That was the official story. Later it was learned she was 17, but that didn't make for as good a news story.) https://nymag.com/news/features/65902/
There is no official count of how many orphan children, with no friends or family here, came to America, but it was in the thousands, many as stowaways. I can't imagine the trip in steerage on a boat, let alone as a stowaway. (One such stowaway was Henry Armetta, a famous character actor for 30 years, mostly as the stereotypical Italian.)
Ian wrote: "How would you like to have to create a life for yourself at the age of 15 in a country where you knew nobody and you had no money?..."They seem to want to come here from South of our border.....
Hmmmm.... A huge block of the internet is owned by a shadowy company.What could possibly go wrong?
QUOTE: "A shadowy company set up last September linked to a DARPA / FBI contractor who peddled a 'lawful intercept' internet spy device to government agencies and law enforcement a decade ago, took over a massive portion of the Pentagon's idle internet addresses on the day of President Biden's inauguration, according to an in-depth investigation by the Associated Press."
REF: https://apnews.com/article/technology...
Graeme wrote: "Hmmmm.... A huge block of the internet is owned by a shadowy company.What could possibly go wrong?
QUOTE: "A shadowy company set up last September linked to a DARPA / FBI contractor who peddled ..."
Quote: "Incorporated in Delaware and registered by a Beverly Hills lawyer, Global Resource Systems LLC now manages more internet space than China Telecom, AT&T or Comcast."
On Biden's Inauguration Day, a company incorporated in Delaware was handed all of that? I know that we should read that charitably, but that stinks from the head. Can he really be that stupid?
It's taken a few months, but I'm no longer surprised by the stupidity of the Democrats.
Given this thread is supposed to be about news not in the US, I thought I would add something scary. Some geologists, digging on our south coast unearthed ash - lots of it. Apparently it was from the Taupo supervolcano that erupted about 22,000 years ago. The scary thing is the comment that the ash matches some found in Antarctica, which is 4,000 miles away.
Ian wrote: "Given this thread is supposed to be about news not in the US, I thought I would add something scary. Some geologists, digging on our south coast unearthed ash - lots of it. Apparently it was from t..."A supervolcano anywhere on Earth would be a bit of a damper upon everything else for at least a year or two...
Here are some news from Germany:Germany has the super election Year.
Youre not allowed to go outside at 10 pm.
Armin Laschet is the new top candidate of CDU.
"Coronalaws change every hour."
UkScandals or alleged scandals about Boris or Cummings or nothing
Virus numbers down again
Vaccine numbers still going up
Radcliffe sentenced to another year in jail in Iran for going to a demo in UK 12 years ago
Football super league still rumbling in background
State of India about COVID
Even Australian vaccine rate got mentioned
As for vaccine rates, NZ has second worst record currently.Government has proposed major changes to health delivery, giving far more responsibility to the Ministry of Health, i.e. the guys that have given us the second worst vaccine rates through various bits of ineptitude. What could possibly go wrong?
We have a travel bubble with Australia
Ian wrote: "Given this thread is supposed to be about news not in the US, I thought I would add something scary. Some geologists, digging on our south coast unearthed ash - lots of it. Apparently it was from t..."Must have been a big event to cover that much ground.
Ian wrote: "As for vaccine rates, NZ has second worst record currently.Government has proposed major changes to health delivery, giving far more responsibility to the Ministry of Health, i.e. the guys that ha..."
At least you are not Europe.
Ian, you guys have had such low numbers all along. Not being cheeky, but do you have a big need for vaccines?
Scout wrote: "Ian, you guys have had such low numbers all along. Not being cheeky, but do you have a big need for vaccines?"Of course they do. Once they open up, they will be exposed to the rest of the world that is infected.
Indeed. One of the big questions now is why the government is so slow off the mark. We have to rejoin the rest of the world, and the safest way to do this is with vaccination. For what it is worth, in a couple of days I am going to receive a dose of Pfizer's products, and I am pleased to do so.
You might’ve heard at the very bottom of your newspapers or internet sites about the conflagration between Hamas and Israel. Just wanted to update you from the ground that I had to go down into the bomb shelter a couple of times, other than that I hope we’ll prevail with as little casualties and as much hamas taken down as possible
Yes, this situation is not getting any better, and doesn't look like doing so any time soon. I hope you keep safe and uninjured, Nik, and I wish this situation could be resolved with an end to the violence, but it looks to me from this distance that things are merely getting worse.
Thanks, Ian. Yes, the escalation continues coupled with riots and vandalism within Israel among some Arab youth in cities of mixed Arab Jewish population
Nik wrote: "Thanks, Ian. Yes, the escalation continues coupled with riots and vandalism within Israel among some Arab youth in cities of mixed Arab Jewish population"Seen the news from Lod this morning
Calm heads do not seem to be prevailing
There was surprising detail on our TV, with a huge number of rockets in the air from Gaza at night. some of them were knocked out by the iron dome, and that was spectacular, in a way, to watch, but a lot seemed to get through. There were leaders form both sides saying they are prepared for peace, but they will retaliate to whatever, and since they are in the middle of it, I can't see this stopping any time soon.The news also stated that earlier a number of Palestinians were evicted from their houses in East Jerusalem. does anyone know if that is true?
Philip wrote: "Seen the news from Lod this morningCalm heads do not seem to be prevailing..."
Most likely goes the usual cycle of escalation, culmination, diffusion. Indeed, calm heads aren't dominating the scene at the moment..
When there is a governance void for almost two years with recurrent inconclusive elections, exposing system's failure, the society's delicate fabric becomes vulnerable to be torn apart by extremists.
Ian wrote: "There was surprising detail on our TV, with a huge number of rockets in the air from Gaza at night. some of them were knocked out by the iron dome, and that was spectacular, in a way, to watch, but..."As far as I'm aware the Iron Dome reads the trajectory of the incoming missiles and doesn't attempt to intercept those, which are estimated to fall in the open area. As of the rest, the current success rate is at 85%. Very good, but not 100% hermetic. To overburden the defense, hamas groups launches into big salvos.
As of eviction, as far as I follow the Attorney General intervened and petitioned the Supreme Court to postpone hearings, which was granted. Until the new hearing is scheduled and held no eviction should happen.
Man, Nik, I took a break from the news yesterday and only saw this morning what's going on there. Videos are showing skies full of rockets. Very scary, I'm sure, and I'm sorry you guys are going through this. I hope you get some U.S. support. Will be thinking of you and your family and hoping you're safe. Take care.
Nik, what were the grounds for the evictions?
Thanks, Scout, really appreciate your support!I live some distance away and we here have a minute and a half to enter armored rooms, which most private houses and residential buildings here are equipped with and hamas rarely shoots this far. In my town we had 4 sirens so far, rockets intercepted in the sky, no hits and generally having regular routine, but those living closer to Gaza and having 20-30 seconds to find shelter absorbed some heavy hits and losses.
Being surrounded by powerful, hostile and fanatic in their hatred enemies doesn’t facilitate long peaceful years. Yet, I hope our qualitative edge, built with the help of our American friends, will enable to restore the deterrence soon enough
The grounds are may be formally justified in this specific case - the land was bought in late 19th century by jewish organizations, because it’s near some tomb and settled by Jews. When this part of Jerusalem went to Jordanian control, Jews fled their homes and Jordan settled Arab families there. Once the control was gained by Israel the legal battle started, lasting 30 years to evict a few families.An initially small issue was blown into a political, ethnic and what not affair. But since it already became a symbol and in a grander scheme of things there are probably more formerly Arab owned lands left behind and later reallocated for Jewish settlement, it might be a more wise and elegant solution to leave the Arab families there - maybe through compulsory purchase/eminent domain for public needs and compensation of the successors of those who purchased at the time.
Btw, as far as I’m aware the eviction is suspended until the Supreme Court hears the appeal of the families
An eviction and then rockets? This is an Iranian backed operation. If it is about evictions, it is an excuse. The Abraham accords are problematic for Iran, so they need to try and disrupt them. this is a way to go about it, but I do not think they will get much Arab sympathies any more.
Papaphilly wrote: "An eviction and then rockets? This is an Iranian backed operation. If it is about evictions, it is an excuse. The Abraham accords are problematic for Iran, so they need to try and disrupt them. thi..."There would be more to it than that. The main question for me is why the eviction? If that is merely so Jewish settlers can take over more Palestinian land, then that is the basic problem to be solved, and I have yet to hear why they were evicted and whether they owned the properties. The fact that a court has been asked to delay the evictions is irrelevant if all it is is a ruse to calm things down.
Further, all the evictions did was lead to protests. The Police stopped the protests presumably with their usual methods, the protestors threw stones, and so it escalated. The situation is now a mess, and Israel is busy using bombs to level Gaza. Interestingly, when the Russians used air power in Syria against ISIS they were heavily criticised; when Israel uses air power against Hamas they are more or less praised. Meanwhile the US is calling for calm. They are not calling for an end to evictions of Palestinian property by Israel.
On the news last night I saw a bunch of young Jewish thugs praising themselves for having pulled a couple of Palestinians from their cars after which they beat them to death. I believe the Israeli justice system will do nothing about them. The Palestinians are not getting much sympathy from the Arab world anyway because the Arabs are more on Israel's side because Israel is able to do something about their "enemy" Iran. Hamas might not be amongst the brightest of the bulbs, but really their options are to do that or what? Watch all Palestinian land become the ghetto that Gaza just about is?
The evictions are irrelevant, Ian. They are dealt within a legal system and can't be any pretext lest justification for launching rocket attacks against Israeli civilian population. Hamas started rocket barrage. It's like if Africa launched a rocket attack on the US because police strangled George Floyd. Hamas causes Gaza to be annihilated - their problem. They don't care, we should care less. They chose it fully willingly knowing in advance they have no chance. I just hope we finish dismantling hamas this time, because if not - it'll just take time before they resume launching rockets again. And believe me they pray that every rocket out of thousands they shoot will hit Israeli civilians and kill as much as possible. And build their tactics to cause as much damage as possible. They rule Gaza and are ultimately responsible for its well being and taking it out of harm's way.
Ian wrote: "....On the news last night I saw a bunch of young Jewish thugs praising themselves for having pulled a couple of Palestinians from their cars after which they beat them to death. I believe the Israeli justice system will do nothing about them...."
None was beat to death luckily and it's exactly same Arabs lynching Jews and Jews lynching Arabs. You are very wrong about how it is and will be dealt with. Both Arabs and Jews participating in lynch and beating the other race will face exactly same charges and I'm sure those complicit, Jews or Arabs alike, will face equally harsh charges.
Ian wrote: "Hamas might not be amongst the brightest of the bulbs, but really their options are to do that or what? Watch all Palestinian land become the ghetto that Gaza just about is? ..."You do realize that shooting rockets indiscriminately at a sovereign country is an act of war? You do realize Israel does not shoot first? You do realize Hamas shoot their rockets from areas with women and children at areas with women and children?
You want to know why the Arab world is moving on from the Palestinians? Yes, Iran is certainly a big part of it, but also they have had enough of getting kicked in the teeth over the Palestinian question. You also realize that there was never a country of Palestine? You also know every time Israel tries to get a peace accord, the Palestinians turn it down.
Israel has dirty hands too, but I think they show much more restraint then I would. Maybe if they totally level Gaza, the rocket attacks would stop. Hamas is a puppet of Iran shooting Iranian supplied rockets. What do you think is really going on?
As for the evictions, I have no idea and do not care. That is an internal matter to Israel.
Nik, the evictions were not the pretext for launching rockets; the pretext was the heavy-handed action of the Israelis in putting down the resultant protests. So far nobody has answered my question, "What were the grounds for the evictions?" If it were for something like Palestinians refusing to pay rent, then that would be fine and the protests needed to be dealt with, but if they were merely yet another land confiscation by Israel, then I think not. Papaphilly, what would you do if some armed men turned up and told you your property was wanted for more desirable people so get out?As for the beating, Nik, what I saw was a TV clip where this thug claimed he had killed the driver of a car, and another was similarly killed down the road. He was yelling in Yiddish (I assume) so I had to rely on the translation. If the Palestinans lived, fine, but it was not the intended outcome.
At the same time, there were images of Palestinian stores with all their windows smashed, glass everywhere. No sympathy there for minorities; it reminded me of Kristallnacht.
There is no war. It is merely a revolt. To say there was no country called Palestine is a bit mendacious. There was a district called Palestine that was part of the Ottoman Empire, it became a sort of British Protectorate, and there was definitely no country called Israel. That does us no good, looking at history. Israel is obviously there to stay, so the question is, what happens to the area that Israel has under military occupation and does not behave properly as an occupying power. As an example of the stupidity of claims to international law, I heard a legal expert point out Israel is not bound by it because it did not sign something accepting it. If that is all there is to being bound the execution of the Nazis would be illegal (only on procedure - had they been tried under German law the same thing would have happened).
As for peace accords, there is no evidence that a self-governing Palestine is now economically viable, with all the settlements and their demands for infrastructure(unless the Jews in the settlements became Palestinians, and that won't happen. Simply too much land has been confiscated and in too much a patchwork pattern. Too many of the good bits have gone.
An interesting point about the rockets is they apparently cost $300 a shot. I doubt they are Iranian, although Iran probably provided some of the materials. They have, it seems, about 30,000 of them and each Iron Dome rocket costs $50,000, according to our paper. If Israel is going to send troops into Gaza, Hamas might as well use them or they will lose them.
I still haven't heard of a solution to this problem. The military will turn Gaza into a bigger ghetto. The Palestinians under the current setup have no real future. It is true the Palestinians have turned down offers that were probably the best they were ever going to get, but again that probably doesn't help things now. What does anyone think would be a solution that is possible to implement that gives the Palestinians an economy? The Trump proposal acknowledged that they don't have enough land and water for agriculture to offer much in the way of prosperity for more than a very few.
Ian, you’ve asked about evictions, I answered above. You wanna read it - fine, you don’t - you don’t have to.Hamas attacked - they’d get beaten. There is no justification for anyone to be under rockets. Like Isis - it’s not an organization to tolerate. They can make Gaza a paradise, but they won’t.
There are two solutions - peace, recurrently rejected by Palestinians, or beating them down every time anew. We are fine with both. There never was a Palestine, Papa is right, but Israel existed for centuries: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingd... and hopefully will exist centuries to go.
As of violent revolt - whoever’s engaged will face severe repercussions under the law, Jews and Arabs alike.
I just hope that we’ll be given a chance to dismantle hamas once and for all
And Ian, just to expose your perverted logic: if your police acted heavy - handedly against anything (if I assume they did), would it justify shooting rockets at you or would you expect your army to protect you and eliminate perpetrators?
Ian wrote: "what would you do if some armed men turned up and told you your property was wanted for more desirable people so get out?..."This does happen in the US. There was a famous case in Connecticut some years back where they seized a bunch of residential property to give it to private developers. Worked its way through the courts, and the seizure was upheld. After all these years, the property still sits vacant. People lost their homes for nothing.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/seiz...
And note, the article is from 2014, so it's now been 16 years...
Nik, you wrote about evictions: "They are dealt within a legal system". Sorry but that does not explain what the evictions were about. As I wrote above, it is possible there was a perfectly good reason, in which case I would like to hear it. It is equally possible that it was just another way of acquiring land by displacing Palestinians. Let's hear the facts.I also do not recall justifying anything relating to Hamas. All I have stated is what I think led up to the present situation. Maybe you can kill everyone associated with Hamas, but I doubt it because it is very difficult to kill an idea, and it seems those there are so desperate that is just about all they have.
To say there was no Palestine but Israel existed for centuries is misleading when the centuries sort of stopped about 3,000 years ago. As to whether there has been a Palestine region, I suggest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...
As for the Palestine mandate, note "Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country." Nothing done? Really?
There was a Judea two thousand years ago, but after a revolt Titus Flavius Vespasianus put that down. Since then it has been fought over intermittently but it was basically Muslim up until 1947. The land was given to create Israel by governments that did not own it, but it washed away their guilt over Germany, and the fact they had promised it to raise Jewish money. How many of the properties in Israel were purchased on the basis of willing buyer-willing seller? Probably some were, but the Naqba asserts that many were simply acquired. But all that is beside the point. Israel is there now, and it cannot be reversed.
My explanation was that the evictions tore open a scab and it escalated. Yes, Israel may well send in troops. That is probably better for everyone than simply bombing residential areas. However, it will not solve the problem while there are all these people in Gaza.
I also asked for a solution to the problem. Peace is in itself not a solution because unless said peace leaves the Palestinian people with the basic freedoms to own property and have an opportunity to live well it is insufficient. Just asking the Palestinians to lie down and accept their fate won't work, sorry. In my opinion the two state solution won't work because the Palestinians have two few resources left, and the settlements are a horrible distribution across the land (and in violation of international law, except as I said above, Israel for some reason seems to be exempt from that) so that when you have secure roads between settlements and Israel, Palestine simply would not work.
Ian, you just need to look few posts up. On a cellphone I don’t see the number, but on your request I’d explained in detail the history of the eviction question.We had those historical debates and I’m sure Israel has a solid and legit claim for its existence, facilitated by Brits and widely recognized by international community.
Nothing warranted attacking us with rockets. It was a deliberate, belligerent act of hamas. We can negotiate and attempt to find a peaceful formula with Fatah that recognizes Israel and at least declares that they want peace. Hamas, similar in approach to isis or al qaeda, wants our destruction and attacks us.
A forced cease fire will only achieve a break btw a few months to few years, but that’s what will likely happen.
Anyways, I think it’s pretty clear that if Israel gets attacked it has a right to defend itself and I can only hope that our defense would make the enemy think twice whether to attack again.
Sorry Nik, you are correct. For some reason I saw post 535 but missed 534. Goodreads had two or three days when I received almost nothing - no idea why not. A purchase in the 19th century would be during Ottoman days, and the Palestinians may not have access to those records, so if the record is correct and the land was not subsequently resold, then yes, the evictions may be legal. The question remains that if the Jews owned the land from that far back, what are the Palestinians doing on it? How did they get there?I have no idea what Hamas thinks it will achieve with the rocket attacks. Unfortunately the civilians will be caught in the return fire and enough of them will die that the next generation of hate will be born. Of course Israel has the right to defend itself, and it will, and it will kill a number of Palestinians, but I doubt that will solve anything. On the other hand, as I said above, I doubt there is a solution now. I can't see any probable solution that Fatah can accept, and I doubt Fatah has the ability to keep Hamas under control, which would have to be part of a two-state solution, even if everything else could be got around. Israel cannot accept any solution in which Hamas even exists but Fatah does not have the strength to suppress them.
We disagree on the legitimacy of Israel, BUT there is nothing to be done about that. The fact that all those countries who voted for it in the UN and did nothing to ensure the Palestinians ended up with something merely shows the average morality/responsibility of modern politicians. Giving away that which you do not own is very cheap politics. Israel is too well established, and of course Israeli citizens have the right to defend themselves and the right to expect to continue in a peaceful future.
However, with those rights, in my opinion, comes the responsibility to give the Palestinians the opportunities for their future. In my opinion the only potentially viable end-game now is either a two state solution wherein Israel abandons the settlements (than under international law are illegal - an occupying power cannot settle its own people in that land) OR Israel incorporates the whole land and accepts the Palestinians as citizens. In my opinion, neither of those are viable. As I have said more than once, if anyone has a further option that is economically plausible and recognises current factors, I would be interested to hear it.
Seeing this endless chaos and age old conflict and reflecting on violence in Northern Ireland (another centuries old conflict) I came across this quote - also using it in my new WIP"Anyone who tries to destroy our villages and cities, then we are going to destroy their villages and cities. Anyone who steals our fortunes, then we must destroy their economy. Anyone who kills our civilians, then we are going to kill their civilians
Osama bin Laden
Not someone I would normally quote but could apply equally to Israel or Hamas, the Unionists or the nationalists
I don't think it can apply equally to Israel and hamas. Hamas goes after civilians, Israel goes after militants and military targets and attempts to minimize civilian loss forewarning people to leave before destroying infrastructural objects.Iran is so much smarter than proxies and hamas. Even for killing suleimani they made sure to limit their retaliation to a symbolic one. Gaza is/will be in ruins and they'll trumpet a victory. What does hamas achieve in that, except for further suffering of their population? They don't care much about it, but still..
With a slight change of subject, the WHO has declared NZ a vaccine hoarder - we had ordered enough vaccine to immunize our population several times over. Aren't we naughty?The reason was nobody knew what would succeed so we covered bases. As for hoarding, we might check on what has actually been delivered. So far enough for less than 10% of the population. Now that is hoarding??
And to show stupidity/incompetence is still prevalent here, we have a vaccine industry (for animals) so when the virus appeared a group got some government money to develop a vaccine. Apparently they claim to have succeeded, but then suddenly ran into a barrier - somewhere back int he 1980s the greenies managed to persuade the government to introduce a law against producing genetically manipulated products in NZ so the vaccine cannot go any further. Which raises the question, why fund it in the first place, or why not change the law, or did they even know about the consequences of their own actions?
Nik wrote: "I don't think it can apply equally to Israel and hamas. Hamas goes after civilians, Israel goes after militants and military targets and attempts to minimize civilian loss forewarning people to lea..."Nik wrote "What does hamas achieve ...?" That depends on their strategic goals, if they actually have any. As I noted in a previous post, they are not the brightest of bulbs, but equally they don't have many options. My guess is they hope that the flattening of Gaza will get the international community to do something about the Palestinian problem on the grounds that a certain level of misery leads to action. In this they will be terribly wrong. The international community sort of closes eyes and looks elsewhere. Look at Yemen for evidence.
On the other hand, they have such a bad hand maybe they never had a useful strategy. Nobody else seems to have one for them.
They have an option to live peacefully and enjoy it :)Monetizing self-inflicted misery may tire the sponsors at some stage
World, Writing, Wealth
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