#390 - Interview with Dennis E. Taylor

[Veronica, Supreme Sword]

We chat with Dennis E. Taylor about the Bobiverse, and what we can expect when we return to it in the new book Heaven's River.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/40173624
https://soundcloud.com/swordandlaser/...
http://swordandlaser.com/home/2020/7/...

[Jan]

Nice!

↓ Drop comment here!

[Mark]

We are all Bob!

[Tamahome]

Jan wrote: "Nice!

↓ Drop comment here!"

💧

[terpkristin]

I really enjoyed this interview. I enjoyed the first Bob book well enough but not enough to continue with the series.

One thing he said that truly resonated was about "he said" and "she said". I don't remember which book it was - maybe an early Scalzi book or some other book read by Wil Wheaton. ALL I COULD HEAR was "he said" and "she said". It was sooo painful. I definitely remember commenting on it in my review (and I went to find it, here it is!).

Thanks as always for the show and the great interviews!

[Tassie Dave, S&L Historian]

That is something that annoys me about audiobook. All the "said's" stand out if overused. To the point of annoyance.

In a book they're needed. But in a good audio performance, they're redundant.

I am Bob

[William]

Tassie Dave wrote: "I am Bob"

I am Bill

[Veronica, Supreme Sword]

terpkristin wrote: "I really enjoyed this interview. I enjoyed the first Bob book well enough but not enough to continue with the series.

One thing he said that truly resonated was about "he said" and "she said". I ..."

Haha, I feel like I REMEMBER that from that book!

[Ian (RebelGeek)]

Tassie Dave wrote: "That is something that annoys me about audiobook. All the "said's" stand out if overused. To the point of annoyance.

In a book they're needed. But in a good audio performance, they're redundant.

..."

Totally! Any overused or mispronounced words stand out. I don't remember the "said"s in Redshirts, but it's been a few years since I listened to it.

I'll never forget that Seanan McGuire uses "bemused" in every October Daye novel (at least the 1st 8) & it's unclear from the context if she's using the adjective correctly. Why not substitute a better word once in a while?

Rant done.

[Mark]

Veronica wrote: "Haha, I feel like I REMEMBER that from that book!"

or maybe from Old Man's War

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

or Fuzzy Nation

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

a common theme for Scalzi's earlier books when narrated aloud

[Sheila Jean]

I can't remember which book it was but I returned at least one audio book unfinished because I couldn't get past the first chapter of "s/he said". It was a fast moving conversation (one to three words per person) with multiple characters and I found it completely unbearable.

[John (Nevets)]

I thought I remembered it being more prevalent in his earlier work, like "Fuzzy Nation" and Agent to the Stars, but less so as he became a more mature author. But if others are saying the same thing about Red Shirts, something I consider a bit more recent, I guess not.

[John (Taloni)]

Haa, great interview! And I'm glad for the clue-in that audio books are first, I'd managed to miss that. I'm afraid Mr. Taylor will have to wait a few months for my money. I just don't relate to audiobooks.

Regarding the line about having a Bob write the books: There is an SF editor who has an AI program to help you write. It's supposed to anticipate your style. I don't think the editor would appreciate being outed so they will remain anonymous, but this may not be all that far off.

[John (Taloni)]

Keeping this separate: And then, the Benders. My daughter was a huge fan of Futurama, but as she started watching at a young age she called it "Bender." We had a little ritual at the start of the show where we'd sing along to the theme song. There aren't any lyrics so we'd mostly go "Bender, doot doot doot Bender, doot doot doot BENder" and so on. Right up until the end where on the last note we'd finish with a different name. But it had to be a character from the show, so there were only so many we could pick from. Extra giggle if we both picked the same one.

So let's say we adapt this to the Search for Bender. Oh no! Ten thousand Bobs! We'll never wind up on the same one.

[Jan]

Interestingly, at school in Germany we were always instructed to vary our inquits and avoid repeating "he said/she said" in a text. But the idea wasn't to drop any inquit but to use "they explained/whispered/stated etc". And that was considered good style in German- which seems to be the polar opposite what is considered good style in English...

[Ruth]

Jan wrote: "Interestingly, at school in Germany we were always instructed to vary our inquits and avoid repeating "he said/she said" in a text. But the idea wasn't to drop any inquit but to use "they explained..."

A lot of Anglophone students get taught the same thing at school (ie don’t repeat ‘said’) to create variety in your writing.... and then you go to creative writing class and they tell you not to use explained/whispered/stated etc because it’s distracting. I’ve also seen advice to never attribute dialogue at all.

As ever, the ‘right answer’ is somewhere in the middle- too much explained/whispered/stated etc can be distracting, but then so can having every line of dialogue with ‘said’ after it. (I’ll echo others by saying this was definitely a distraction in Scalzi’s Redshirts audiobook). And not knowing which character said what is even worse.

[Trike]

Excessive use of “said” and not attributing who’s speaking is one of the things that aggravated me about Charlie Jane Anders’ work, too. She insists “said” is invisible, but I think when it’s used ten or twenty times per page it starts feeling like a cudgel.

Her wrongheaded advice summed up here: https://io9.gizmodo.com/he-said-she-s...

This is actually a pretty common way of writing that a number of bestselling authors use, but I don’t like it.

[Ruth]

Trike wrote: "Excessive use of “said” and not attributing who’s speaking is one of the things that aggravated me about Charlie Jane Anders’ work, too. She insists “said” is invisible, but I think when it’s used ..."

I haven’t found that an issue with CJA’s work. I wonder if how you consume the book makes a difference? Did you listen to CJA’s books? I’ve only read her stuff in kindle, whereas Scalzi I read in audiobook. I think perhaps the eye glides over ‘said’ more easily, but when it’s read out loud the constant repetition of ‘said’ is unavoidable.

[Seth]

Ruth wrote: " then you go to creative writing class and they tell you not to use explained/whispered/stated etc because it’s distracting."

I find this to be the case. If an author usually goes with "s/he said" then it disappears, but if they go out of their way to chose a different variation each time the writing feels far too forced. Has anyone ever graded student papers? It's easy to tell which ones like to pick up a thesaurus to avoid using the same word twice, usually because things just end up looking very unnatural. I feel that way if I see a different intro word each time someone speaks.

[John]

That was a very interesting interview; Dennis has a lot of thoughtful things to say.

And of course "thank you for asking my question".

Bill

\o/