Planning for our Third Read of 2020

[David]

Fear and Trembling is relatively short compared to our usual major reads. I see by the number of comments its affects might linger a lifetime for some. But since our discussions only last three more weeks, it is time to discuss the nominees for our next major read of 2020. Please discuss and talk up your favorites here. Voting will begin next week. The discussion of the winning nomination will begin July 22.

John Stuart Mill Combo: Utilitarianism, On Liberty, and The Subjection of Women

My Ántonia by Willa Cather

Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen

Letters from a Stoic by Seneca

Demons by Fyodor Dostoyevsky

The Prince by Niccolò Machiavelli

Gulliver's Travels by Jonathan Swift

Don Juan by Lord Byron

[David]

The Mill works are all a little on the short side so they are being combined for a longer deeper dive.

I am curious to see if Demons gets the same interest it had a few short weeks ago.

[Aiden]

Some nice choices. As much as I love Dostoevsky, Demons was one of his lesser works as far as timelessness and there are better options, so I won’t be voting for it. I’ve also read Pride & Prejudice and The Prince. Both good for different reasons, but I think my vote this time is s choice between Seneca, Swift or J.S. Mill.

I’m studying Ancient Greek literature this year and Ancient Roman is next, so Seneca would be an nice preview. I haven’t read Mill in over 15 years, but I remember him having some interesting ideas worth discussing. Not sure if there’s interest, but I’m leaning most toward Swift since Gulliver’s Travels is one I’ve considered reading recently and from what I remember of the themes, it lends itself to discussion well.

Either way, same as the last 2 reads, I’m in for whatever wins. I have to admit discussion of Fear and Trembling is better than I thought it would be.

[Bryan--The Bee’s Knees]

The Prince is one of the gaps in my fundamental reading--at least, I think so--so I'll be pulling for that. Otherwise, Senaca, Mill, Byron or Dostoyevsky.

I can't really see My Antonia or even P&P generating a lot of discussion, though I did take part in a group reading P&P, and we had a pleasant time.

Gulliver would probably make a good discussion, but it wasn't all that long ago that I read it, so I'd probably just be listening during that one.

[Kerstin]

Bryan "I can't really see My Antonia or even P&P generating a lot of discussion, though I did take part in a group reading P&P, and we had a pleasant time. "

This group likes the heavy lifting ;-)
It would be really fun to pick P & P apart here. I have yet to read "My Antonia". Other titles of Willa Cather's I've read so far I really enjoyed, especially "Death Comes for the Archbishop." The way she makes the landscape a theme or even character in the book is nothing short of masterful.

[Ignacio]

Mill, Seneca, Machiavelli, or Swift would be the most interesting to me. Austen would be great too, since I've only read one of her novels (Mansfield Park). I've seen the movies though. :-)

[Kristen]

Speaking of heavy lifting, I am still game for Demons, Dostoyevsky. Although I am a newbie having recently rejoined the group (hi everyone!!) and my vote doesn’t have as much sway, I’m still hoping for a little Russian lit as it’s been a while for me.

[Bryan--The Bee’s Knees]

Kerstin wrote: "Other titles of Willa Cather's I've read so far I really enjoyed, especially "Death Comes for the Archbishop." The way she makes the landscape a theme or even character in the book is nothing short of masterful."

Archbishop was really good--I can see that one being discussed here. My Antonia is well worth reading, but I'm not sure it would be book that would lend itself to in-depth discussion. I could be wrong though

[Aiden]

Kristen wrote: "Speaking of heavy lifting, I am still game for Demons, Dostoyevsky. Although I am a newbie having recently rejoined the group (hi everyone!!) and my vote doesn’t have as much sway, I’m still hoping..."

I’d be more inclined to vote for Dostoevsky if the novel were The Idiot. I enjoyed it when I was in my late teens, I’d love to see how my perception of it has changed in twenty years.

I also wanted to suggest another possibility in light of the topicality of the historical moment, a novel by Toni Morrison. Both excellent reading and beautiful, lyrical writing. Specifically Song of Solomon or Beloved would be great for discussion.

Just a thought.

[Rafael]

I'll vote for Gulliver's but I could read The Prince too.

[Jen]

I'm trying to read more poetry, and it's hard to find discussion groups about it, so my vote goes to Don Juan.

[Ashley]

Machiavelli or Swift for me. I loved Gulliver, it would be a fun discussion. Although, I actually doubt I would read Pride and Prejudice without the group. I could be open to the opportunity.

[Gary]

Earlier this year I did a deep read of “Letters from a Stoic” in the Penguin edition, which includes 40 of Seneca’s letters written in retirement (out of a total of 124), and I can vouch for the accessibility of the Campbell translation. There is much wisdom in these letters. If we read them, I don’t expect heated controversy, but many ah-ha! moments.

“The Prince,” on the other hand, is sure to generate controversy. Machiavelli shows no scruples, and perhaps no morality, in his handbook for Princes. I have to admit I was shocked not only by his advice but also it's applicability to modern politics and governance. We may not choose it for a group read for that reason.

I am no fan of romantic-era poetry in general, and of Lord Byron in particular. I think of his poetry as doggerel, and virtually impossible to read to the end.

I’ve never read anything by John Stuart Mill and am open to giving that a shot.

I could easily get behind Cather or Austen, but I agree with Bryan that “My Antonia” and “P&P” aren't likely to generate a lot of discussion.

Most of us probably read “Gulliver’s Travels” sometime in the past … quite likely in high school, and it would be interesting to compare what we remember about it to what we find in a re-read.

I can’t be against reading another Dostoyevsky novel, but if we do I hope we can read it on an accelerated schedule. A 10 to 12 week schedule, for instance, for a novel is too long, even if it's by Dostoyevsky.

[Susan]

I don’t know that I would vote for Don Juan since I’ve already read it, but I think to call Byron’s poetry doggerel is a bit unfair. It’s very clever, comic verse with a philosophic side which could be an interesting summer read and discussion as this sample shows: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem....

[Alexey]

It is the first time when my rule to vote only for unread in first round made the choice narrower (and I have not expected this to happen in near future). So the choice is Cather, Dostoyevsky, Byron, or Mill (I've read only On liberty). It looks like full Lord Byron outweigh 2/3 of Mr Mill.

[David]

Poll is up. You may begin voting on: Jun 24, 2020 12:00AM PDT for one week.

[[deleted user]]

Aiden wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Speaking of heavy lifting, I am still game for Demons, Dostoyevsky. Although I am a newbie having recently rejoined the group (hi everyone!!) and my vote doesn’t have as much sway, ..."

Toni Morrison would be a great choice. One of the most masterful writers of the last 100 years and so much to discuss. I would choose Mill first. Wish the choice was The Idiot but interested in Demons. Cather is up there on the TBR list for me. I'm knee deep in Austen right now so would go for that as well.

[David]

Remember to vote for our next major read!
https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/2...

The poll ends tomorrow night, Jun 30, 2020 11:59PM PDT

[David]

Here are the results of the poll.

R	W	W%	Book
7	15	23%	Gulliver's Travels
11	13	20%	Demons
6	13	17%	J.S. Mill
6	11	20%	Letters from a Stoic
3	6	9%	Don Juan
3	6	9%	The Prince
1	1	2%	Pride and Prejudice
37	65

There is a run off poll between Demons and Gulliver's Travels to decide the winner here:https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/2...

The run-off poll has started and will end at Tuesday July 07, 2020 11:59PM PDT

[Christopher]

Those are some accursed demons.

[Ashley]

I've taken my vote out of the running. Isolation has turned my whole household into bookworms. They want to read Ulysses, so I'll probably be MIA for awhile.

[David]

Don't forget to vote in the run-off poll

The run-off poll ends tomorrow at: Jul 07, 2020 11:59PM PDT

[Lily]

While either of these are excellent authors, Swift has been absent so long as I recall from our reads. (Dostoevsky we tackled Aug-Nov in both 2916 and 17, if I read our bookshelf correctly.) Swift could be a strong foil (contrast) to our recent read of Sterne. Although both use satire, Swift's is often known to be sharper.

For those who think of Gulliver's Travels in terms of the Lilliputians we all probably met as children and as providing delightful illustrations we share with our children and grandchildren, consider that is only one section of this classic of satirical English literature. These words are from Wikipedia: "The book was very popular upon release and was commonly discussed within social circles. Public reception widely varied, with the book receiving an initially enthusiastic reaction with readers praising its satire, and some reporting that the satire's cleverness sounded like a realistic account of a man's travels. James Beattie commended Swift’s work for its 'truth' regarding the narration and claims that 'the statesman, the philosopher, and the critick, will admire his keenness of satire, energy of description, and vivacity of language,' noting that even children can enjoy the novel. As popularity increased, critics came to appreciate the deeper aspects of Gulliver’s Travels. It became known for its insightful take on morality, expanding its reputation beyond just humorous satire." (See entry for footnotes/additional information.)

[Aiden]

Lily wrote: "While either of these are excellent authors, Swift has been absent so long as I recall from our reads. (Dostoevsky we tackled Aug-Nov in both 2916 and 17, if I read our bookshelf correctly.) Swift ..."

I voted for Demons, but have been thinking about changing my vote and you make a compelling argument. Plus, as much as I love Fyodor Mikhailovich, a little satire does sound like a nice change of pace after weeks of Kierkegaard and thinking deeply about the ethics of child sacrifice.

I’m in for Gulliver’s.

[Alexey]

Aiden wrote: "...thinking deeply about the ethics of child sacrifice."

Which is inevitable if reading Dostoyevsky.

[David]

Our winner in the weighted votes is Gulliver. Discussions will start on July 22.

R	W	W%	Book
12	24	54.5%	Gulliver
16	20	45.5%	Demons
28	44

[Donnally]

Aiden wrote: "...thinking deeply about the ethics of child sacrifice."

Which is inevitable if reading Dostoyevsky.

Not to mention Swift's "Modest Proposal". Might want to read that along w/ Gulliver.

[Lia]

Dear WC,

Please don’t eat the Irish children, thanks.

[Roger]

I move we continue Demons onto the next poll.

[Aiden]

Roger wrote: "I move we continue Demons onto the next poll."

Seconded.

[Nidhi]

I voted for Demons both times , if it is not eligible for further polls, I will read alone. Is there any option of buddy reading?

[Kristen]

Nidhi wrote: "I voted for Demons both times , if it is not eligible for further polls, I will read alone. Is there any option of buddy reading?"

Same with me. I would be interested in a buddy read of Demons for sure.