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David Copperfield - Group Read 1 > May - June 2020: David Copperfield: chapters 45 - 64

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message 1: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Sep 29, 2020 12:25PM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8482 comments Mod
The Fourth and final thread for David Copperfield:


Promotional poster for the film of David Copperfield from 2019

Fourth and final Thread:

Chapter 45 (Message 2)

Chapter 46 (Message 13)



XVI – August 1850 (chapters 47–50);

Chapter 47 (Message 27)

Chapter 48 (Message 50)

Chapter 49 (Message 72)

Chapter 50 (Message 87)



XVII – September 1850 (chapters 51–53);

Chapter 51 (Message 104)

Chapter 52 (Message 126)

Chapter 53 (Message 161)



XVIII – October 1850 (chapters 54–57);

Chapter 54 (Message 183)

Chapter 55 (Message 209)

Chapter 56 (Message 229)

Chapter 57 (Message 260)



XIX-XX – November 1850 (chapters 58–64)

Chapter 58 (Message 279)

Chapter 59 (Message 290)

Chapter 60 (Message 308)

Chapter 61 (Message 322)

Chapter 62 (Message 335)

Chapter 63 (Message 343)

Chapter 64 (Message 377)


Above are links to all the chapter summaries in this thread, provided by Nisa! Clicking on each underlined chapter number will take you directly to that chapter's summary.
Thank you for doing this, Nisa!

We are on track to finish on July 4th.


message 2: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Jun 14, 2020 03:35PM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8482 comments Mod
Chapter 45:

David often finds himself at Dr Strong's house, as he and Dora now live quite near. "The Old Soldier" Mrs Markleham now lives there permanently, and is forever suggesting interesting outings, in the pretence that it is for Annie's benefit:

"She was one of those people who can bear a great deal of pleasure, and she never flinched in her perseverance in the cause."

David feels that this is making Dr Strong even more sorrowful, as it reminds him of the self-accusation that he has been responsible for keeping Annie away from a more exciting life. Jack Maldon never accompanies them now, although sometimes Aunt Betsey and Dora do. David has come to believe that there never was anything untoward between Annie and Jack Maldon.

Aunt Betsey is very irked by Mrs Markleham, and persists in her belief, that Mr Dick may somehow solve the difficulties between Dr Strong and his wife.

After a few months Mr Dick seeks out David when he is alone in his study, as there is something on his mind. Mr Dick confides in David how much he admires Aunt Betsey, and tells him that he has saved all his money, and made his will in favour of her. He says that she has been constant, and has had faith in him, although:

"I am simple ... She pretends I am not. She won’t hear of it; but I am. I know I am. If she hadn’t stood my friend, sir, I should have been shut up, to lead a dismal life these many years."

Mr Dick goes on to talk of Dr Strong and Annie. He can sense that there are "clouds" between these two, whom he admires so much, and asks David to explain. David tentatively says that there is a separation, arising perhaps from a misunderstanding, but that Dr Strong is devoted to Annie. Mr Dick thinks for a while, and is then struck by an idea which makes him exultant:

"A poor fellow with a craze, sir, ... a simpleton, a weak-minded person—present company, you know! ...may do what wonderful people may not do. I’ll bring them together, boy ... They’ll not blame me ... —simple Dick—mad Dick."



Mr Dick has an idea - Fred Barnard

Very taken with his idea, he swears David to secrecy. Nothing happens for about three weeks. David and Dora come to visit the Strongs, and Annie comes into the garden, where Mr Dick is just finishing off some garden work. She begs them to wait for Dr Strong, who is busy with some visitors in his study, but she is sure will not be long. They all wait in the drawing room.

Mrs Markleham bustles in, and makes a great show of pretended shock, at having interrupted Dr Strong in the act of making his will. She has "accidentally" overheard that he has left everything to Annie unconditionally: "at Doctor Strong’s time of life ... the darling—for he is nothing less!" She goes on to remind everyone how right she had been, to advise Annie to marry Dr Strong all those years ago, "with reference to a suitable provision for you ... Doctor Strong will do more than he binds himself to do ... the dear creature."

All make their way to Dr Strong's study, and David describes what he sees, as if it is a tableau vivant. Annie "glide[s] in, pale and trembling ... Mr. Dick supported her on his arm, [laying] his other hand upon the Doctor’s arm ... the Doctor moved his head, his wife dropped down on one knee at his feet, and, with her hands imploringly lifted, fixed upon his face the memorable look I had never forgotten."

David and his aunt look on from the doorway, and Mrs Markleham drops her newspaper in her astonishment. Aunt Betsey once more expresses her confidence in Mr Dick. The narrator says:

"I see and hear, rather than remember, as I write about it.
‘Doctor!’ said Mr. Dick. ‘What is it that’s amiss? Look here!’"


Dr Strong begs Annie to rise, saying how much he loves her, even if there has been a change in their lives over time:

"The fault is mine, and only mine. There is no change in my affection, admiration, and respect."



Mr Dick fulfils my aunt's prediction - Phiz

Annie implores someone to mediate for them, and as their friend, give voice to any suspicions. David now feels impelled to do so. He tells them both everything that had happened, when Uriah Heep made his accusations. Annie then tells, openly and at length, how she had always venerated her husband. Since their marriage, she says, he has come to be in her mind, far more than a much-loved substitute for her dead father, but loved and honoured as her husband. Mrs Markleham keeps trying to interject, which makes Betsey Trotwood most indignant, but Annie is firm and clear in her tale.

She goes on to tell of the suspicion and dread she has had, when her mother started to make much of Jack Malden, and how she gradually became aware that others viewed their marriage as a contract:

"the mean suspicion that my tenderness was bought—and sold to you, of all men on earth ... in which I forced you to participate.

She knew that her mother would have liked her to marry Jack Malden, whom she had liked as a child. However she gradually came to realise that they had nothing in common; that she:

"might have married him, and been most wretched. There can be no disparity in marriage like unsuitability of mind and purpose ... I should be thankful to [my husband] for having saved me from the first mistaken impulse of my undisciplined heart."

These last sentences echo in David's ears, as the Strongs reassert their love, in a scene full of emotion:

"Oh, take me to your heart, my husband, for my love was founded on a rock, and it endures!"

As they leave, Aunt Betsey says:

"You are a very remarkable man, Dick! ... and never pretend to be anything else, for I know better!"

But David's mind is still full of some of the words he had heard, "and the trodden leaves were lying under-foot, and the autumn wind was blowing".


message 3: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Jun 14, 2020 03:28PM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8482 comments Mod
I found this a heart-rending scene, and a most satisfying one to read. Even though it is sentimental, it has none of the annoyances of the pouting child-wife.

I love it when Charles Dickens includes a touch of pathetic fallacy - the ending shows us that David's mind is troubled. And the leaves are one of the motifs Dickens likes to use, to show time, or events, are moving on.

The part with Mr Dick was lovely. He is aware he is different, and accepts it. He has a natural wisdom, and it gave me a lovely warm feeling to see him working out how he could help his friends - and his touching comments about providing for Aunt Betsey, and saving all his money for her. It reminded me again of the heart he made out of silver sixpences :)

I also really enjoyed the comic touches, such as him nearly standing on one leg as he was so pleased and excited, and Aunt Betsey's indignation and ironic quips about her "military friend". Does Mrs Markleham remind anyone else of one of Jane Austen's dreadful elderly women (of which there are many)?

Yet all this was contained in a most dramatic scene! I don't think anybody can do it better than Charles Dickens :)


message 4: by France-Andrée (new)

France-Andrée (iphigenie72) | 376 comments Mr. Dick did a good thing, he was right if it had gone awry he would have been lightly blamed not as much as someone who is considered all there... but it went very well. I didn't remember this consciously and so my earlier comments weren't spoilers per se, but I see now that there was probably a slight memory for my trusting Annie so entirely. What courage to say to everyone present what is on her mind... she didn't have a choice as she wants the clouds to go away in her relationship and also for near friends and relatives to know that she has a clear conscience and that what has been implied was never a reality.

The end of the chapter with the different sentences uttered by Annie coming back in the mind of David is the start of him realizing concretely that his marriage is a mistake, that you have to have a minimum in common to have a relationship flourish, I think subconciously he might already known that, but he had to hear it for it to really register.


message 5: by Rosemarie (new)

Rosemarie | 311 comments David may regret his marriage to Dora but I think he will do his best to keep her from finding out, since he does cherish her. He is slowly growing up but Dora will always be a child.


message 6: by Michaela (new)

Michaela Annie´s scene was really very well written and moving. And David obviously has first doubts about his marriage to Dora.

Also loved Mr. Dick´s talk with David about him being simple, but imo he has a heart of gold or silverpennies as Jean mentioned! :)


message 7: by Petra (new)

Petra | 2178 comments I've been slowly coming to the realization (or strong assumption) that this story is about misconceptions and misunderstandings; and their effects on people's lives.

Mr. Dick is seen as "simple" by society's "normal" standards, but is there anyone more wise and seeing than him? It would be a misconception to see him as simple. People with this much intuition and far-seeing "gut instincts" can change the world, as we've just seen in a small way.

Aunt Betsey was seen as a mad, irrational person at the start of this novel, but she's got a heart of gold and is very sensitive & kind.

Annie is seen as an unfaithful wife, and we now see that she isn't.

The list goes on. Things and people are not what they were first portrayed to be in this novel. It's delightful to watch Dickens turn the tables on us.

This is a wonderful chapter. Full of caring, love & commitment. I was so proud of Annie for stating her case and feelings. In a sense, it's a growing up moment for her, too, as she had to stand up to and speak against her mother.


message 8: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8482 comments Mod
Petra wrote: "I've been slowly coming to the realization (or strong assumption) that this story is about misconceptions and misunderstandings; and their effects on people's lives. .."

What a great observation! Thanks so much for sharing this one Petra.

I am enjoying this read so much, as everyone has such remarkable insights :)


message 9: by Connie (new)

Connie  G (connie_g) | 1041 comments Thanks for posting the two illustrations for this chapter, Jean. They really help us picture how close and caring some of the characters were, and how important their friends were in their lives. I've found Mr Dick to be such a delightful man!


message 10: by Debra Diggs (new)

Debra Diggs Petra wrote: "I've been slowly coming to the realization (or strong assumption) that this story is about misconceptions and misunderstandings; and their effects on people's lives..."

Yes, great observation, Petra!


message 11: by Lori (new)

Lori | 123 comments Jean: I loved this chapter and I completely agree with your thoughts. I love the illustrations you selected too.

I also thought about how much more the illustrations must have meant to the Victorian readers. They must have poured themselves over the artwork and took in the scenes being depicted. We’re spoiled compared to Dickens’ contemporary readers who didn’t have movies to help with visual images. I especially love Mr Dick’s portrayal because he really looks friendly and kind. If I didn’t know he was eccentric, I would just think he was a good- natured character.


message 12: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Jun 15, 2020 12:33PM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8482 comments Mod
Yes, Lori and Debra, it's easy to forget that Victorians were not bombarded with images as we are, in our gadget-ridden and advertisement-driven world. Their images were few, and precious reminders of the story, and also sometimes more importantly reminders of the living embodiments of the characters enacted on stage for them, by Charles Dickens.

I think Aunt Betsey and Mr Dick may be my favourite characters, Michaela, and I do love the silver heart - and your image :)


message 13: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Jun 15, 2020 12:40PM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8482 comments Mod
Chapter 46:

About a year after he had married Dora, David has begun to be established as a writer, and is working on his first piece of fiction. He takes long walks in the evening, to concentrate on his ideas. Because they live in the same neighbourhood, he sometimes finds himself walking past the Steerforths' house, which always looks gloomy and uncared-for.

One evening his thoughts are interrupted by the parlour-maid whom he knows works for Mrs Steerforth. She tells him that Miss Dartle wishes to speak to him. Miss Dartle is waiting in the garden, and greets him with "an air of disdain ... which she took no pains to conceal". She informs David that "this girl" has run away, adding with satisfaction:

"If she is not found, perhaps she never will be found. She may be dead!"

Her scorn prompts David to reply in kind:

"To wish her dead ... may be the kindest wish that one of her own sex could bestow upon her. I am glad that time has softened you so much, Miss Dartle."

Miss Dartle calls peremptorily for someone, and her next words are puzzling to David. She asks him for his assurance that he will refrain from outbursts of emotion, such as vengeance, and on the appearance of Littimer, the request is revealed to mean on behalf of his friends.



Mr Littimer Tells his Story - Fred Barnard

On being asked, Littimer tells the story of Steerforth and Emily. As Dan Peggotty had discovered, they had travelled through France, Switzerland and Italy, and at first seemed happy. Emily was much admired, and learned a lot. However she began to be more and more low in spirits, and Steerforth became bored and restless by this.

Things came to a head one day in Naples, when Steerforth went away saying he would be back in a couple of days, leaving Littimer to break the news that he would not be coming back.

"Mr. James ... did behave extremely honourable; for he proposed that the young woman should marry a very respectable person, who was fully prepared to overlook the past, and who was, at least, as good as anybody the young woman could have aspired to in a regular way: her connexions being very common."

Both Miss Dartle and David believe Littimer to be talking of himself here. On being told this, Emily "was quite mad, and had to be held by force", behaving in a wild fashion, trying to harm both herself and him. She was in a locked room for a while, but escaped one night through a window. Littimer considered that she might have drowned herself, or appealed for help to the boat people with whom she was friendly. When he reported this to Steerforth, he was furious:

"I felt it due to my character to leave him. I could bear, and I have borne, a great deal from Mr. James; but he insulted me too far. He hurt me."

Littimer returned to Mrs Steerforth, who he believed would be glad, and pay him, for news of her son.

David asks whether Emily had received any letter from home. Littimer is reluctant to divulge the truth, but does say that Steerforth would be unlikely to pass on anything which would remind Emily of her home. Littimer has been keen throughout to maintain his professional air of respectability, not addressing his story to either person, as they ask him not to. He wishes his "character" to be unblemished:

"I am at present out of employment, and should be happy to meet with a respectable situation."

After Littimer has told his tale, and been dismissed, Miss Dartle tells David why she has shared this news. Steerforth is reputed to be on the coast of Spain. She speaks viciously of Emily, saying that they want her found as they do not wish Steerforth to be "made her prey again".

Mrs Steerforth then arrives on the scene, and David sees that she is greatly changed and made older by these events. She confirms what Rosa has said both as to her wishes, and her opinion of Emily, although she now refers to Dan Peggotty as a "decent man ... for whom I am sorry". She has heard that David has married, and becoming successful with his writing, and softens enough to say:

"[Your mother] would have been proud of you."

The next evening David goes in search of Mr Peggotty, to tell him this news. He knows that he has kept up his quest, searching London to find Emily, and lives over the little chandler’s shop in Hungerford Market. Mr Peggotty is pleased to see him, and David notices how he keeps his room neat and welcoming, so that if Emily returns she will straight away feel at home. David tells all he knows, and Mr Peggotty listens with great dignity. He too muses aloud about what might have happened, and talks of the sea being her grave, but then becomes convinced by a feeling he has that she is still alive.

David decides to tell Mr Peggotty about Martha, and he is astonished to hear that she was listening to their conversation before. He is willing to try to find her, as David thinks that Emily would look for Martha if she were to come to London. Mr Peggotty knows the places Martha is likely to be:

"The time was, Mas’r Davy,’ he said, as we came downstairs, ‘when I thowt this girl, Martha, a’most like the dirt underneath my Em’ly’s feet. God forgive me, theer’s a difference now!"

As they walk they talk of Ham. Mr Peggotty says that Ham works hard, and is liked by all, but is troubled, and never mentions Emily or Steerforth. Mr Peggotty hopes Ham will never see Steerforth again, as he cannot tell whether he feels violent, and does not know what might happen. They do catch sight of Martha, but David urges Mr Peggotty not to speak, but to follow her, until she is alone, and may then be more ready and willing to talk to them.


message 14: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Jun 15, 2020 12:41PM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8482 comments Mod
We see that David is beginning to have success as a writer, which mirrors Charles Dickens's own life again, shortly after his marriage. By the time a year has passed, David and Dora seem to spend their time apart, at least in the evenings.

In this chapter we pick up the threads of another story. Rosa seems just as vengeful as she was before, and we get the impression that although David loathes what she says, he still admires her. Before he had met Dora, we remember he was in love with a succession of females, and Rosa Dartle had (oddly) been one of these.

We have another fairytale reference:

"The air of wicked grace: of triumph, in which, strange to say, there was yet something feminine and alluring: with which she reclined upon the seat between us, and looked at me, was worthy of a cruel Princess in a Legend."

and I was struck by the holly hedge; a reference to darts again? Or the thorn a princess may prick her finger on. She even seem to have power over nature - or even perhaps become part of it:

"It was a sombre evening, with a lurid light in the sky; and as I saw the prospect scowling in the distance, with here and there some larger object starting up into the sullen glare, I fancied it was no inapt companion to the memory of this fierce woman."


message 15: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8482 comments Mod
Littimer is such a cold calculating machine, without passion. Yet his behaviour is exact, and never deviates. His morality is founded on his unwavering servitude. In his terms, he has never done anything "wrong". He has been completely loyal to his master (ie., whoever pays him) and does not betray him even now. He also reminds others whom he would consider his social superiors, how they should behave. He will not answer a question put by David, an outsider, before it is allowed by Miss Dartle. He will not have what he would say is his "honour" impugned, and refers to his "character" more than once. He is keen to keep his standing and good references, as a manservant.


message 16: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Jun 15, 2020 12:31PM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8482 comments Mod
I like that Mrs Steerforth is slightly softened. She needs to be! But we wonder what is in store for her. Rosa seems to be in her element, getting more maniacal every time we see her, but will Mrs Steerforth crumble? Wither away? She only seems to have lived through her son.

Time has passed and yet Dan Peggotty is faithful. I loved that he kept clothes for Emily, and a light to welcome her.


message 17: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Jun 15, 2020 12:44PM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8482 comments Mod
This was a chapter where I was more aware than ever of the foreshadowing. Nothing is definite; it's all suggestion. Sometimes we hear it through a character's thoughts, or something in nature, suggested by another voice. Perhaps now we have an omniscient narrator, in addition to the older David.

Isn't there another voice here, near the beginning:

"Coming before me, on this particular evening that I mention, mingled with the childish recollections and later fancies, the ghosts of half-formed hopes, the broken shadows of disappointments dimly seen and understood, the blending of experience and imagination, incidental to the occupation with which my thoughts had been busy, it was more than commonly suggestive."

And later:

"Here and there, some early lamps were seen to twinkle in the distant city; and in the eastern quarter of the sky the lurid light still hovered. But, from the greater part of the broad valley interposed, a mist was rising like a sea, which, mingling with the darkness, made it seem as if the gathering waters would encompass them."

But immediately we return to the older David, with another - metaphorical - suggestion:

"I have reason to remember this, and think of it with awe; for before I looked upon those two again, a stormy sea had risen to their feet."

I love how Charles Dickens blends and merges these three different voices.


message 18: by Michaela (new)

Michaela What an exciting chapter, and what a cliffhanger! I had troubles not to read ahead! ;)

I think that sometimes I´d need a list of persons, as I had to think who Miss Dartle or Littimer were! ;)


message 19: by France-Andrée (new)

France-Andrée (iphigenie72) | 376 comments What a bitter woman Miss Dartle is. Every time we see her, she's a little more poisoned, she's a sad character in her way.

It's disgusting how when Steerforth is done with Emily, he thinks giving her to his servant is okay! Marrying her off is the "best" way to get rid of her, but who cares about her emotions? She is treated as garbage, cannot have an opinion because of her past. I am a little angry about the situation.

There's a lot of foreshadowing in this chapter... foreshadowing is never a good thing, well, maybe when David referred to his daughter but it was mixed with a sadness about Dora's ring. I'm trying to think of happy foreshadowing in this book, there doesn't seem to be any. Would it still be called foreshadowing if it was positive?


message 20: by Rosemarie (new)

Rosemarie | 311 comments I get the impression that Rosa really hates Emily because she is the reason Steerforth went away from his home.
When I read that Emily was imprisoned because she refused to marrry someone(Littimer), I was furious. I am glad she ran away.

Mrs. Steerforth told David that his mother would be proud of him if she were still alive. She has no reason to be proud of Steerforth's behaviour.


message 21: by Lori (new)

Lori | 123 comments I was glad to have news of Em’ly. I do have a question, though. I believe for the first time, David has referred to Em’ly as Emily.

“Oh, Emily! Unhappy beauty! ....”. Of course, my copy has frequent typos but this grown up version of Emily appears only when David is speaking. When Mr Peggotty is speaking it’s still Em’ly as if he still thinks of her as his Little Em’ly. So, is this another typo or is it intentional?

I did wonder if David saw Emily as being free of Steerforth’s spell, he might think of her as being more mature and worthy of the adult version of her name.


message 22: by Debra Diggs (last edited Jun 15, 2020 03:45PM) (new)

Debra Diggs This part killed me "We desire that, too; that he may not by any chance be made her prey again." Good gosh, let's blame it all on the woman! That is still done today.

Lori, Emily is still Em'ly in my book. (free kindle edition) . No wait, I finally found two places where David know calls her Emily.


message 23: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Jun 15, 2020 03:45PM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8482 comments Mod
Lori wrote: "if David saw Emily as being free of Steerforth’s spell, he might think of her as being more mature and worthy of the adult version of her name ..."

I'm sure this is true, and several characters have different names according to how they are thought of, but in fact David has called her "Emily" before. (She'll probably always be "Em'ly", even if not "Little Em'ly" to Dan Peggotty though, as you say :))

It's a bit late for me to search through (it may be in my summaries) but maybe someone else can locate it?


message 24: by Lori (new)

Lori | 123 comments No worries, Jean! Somehow, I missed that little detail.


message 25: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Jun 15, 2020 03:49PM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8482 comments Mod
Sorry Debra - cross-posted!

And oh yes. It's perhaps even more shocking that this is 2 women casting aspersions on another :(


message 26: by Debra Diggs (new)

Debra Diggs No worries, Jean.


message 27: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Jun 16, 2020 05:17AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8482 comments Mod
Chapter 47:

David and Dan Peggotty trudge through the area around the river Thames:

"The neighbourhood was a dreary one at that time; as oppressive, sad, and solitary by night, as any about London. There were neither wharves nor houses on the melancholy waste of road near the great blank Prison. A sluggish ditch deposited its mud at the prison walls. Coarse grass and rank weeds straggled over all the marshy land in the vicinity. In one part, carcases of houses, inauspiciously begun and never finished, rotted away. In another, the ground was cumbered with rusty iron monsters of steam-boilers, wheels, cranks, pipes, furnaces, paddles, anchors, diving-bells, windmill-sails, and I know not what strange objects, accumulated by some speculator, and grovelling in the dust, underneath which—having sunk into the soil of their own weight in wet weather—they had the appearance of vainly trying to hide themselves. The clash and glare of sundry fiery Works upon the river-side, arose by night to disturb everything except the heavy and unbroken smoke that poured out of their chimneys. Slimy gaps and causeways, winding among old wooden piles, with a sickly substance clinging to the latter, like green hair, and the rags of last year’s handbills offering rewards for drowned men fluttering above high-water mark, led down through the ooze and slush to the ebb-tide. There was a story that one of the pits dug for the dead in the time of the Great Plague was hereabout; and a blighting influence seemed to have proceeded from it over the whole place. Or else it looked as if it had gradually decomposed into that nightmare condition, out of the overflowings of the polluted stream."



The River and Martha - Phiz

There they see Martha, who seems hypnotised by the river:

"Oh, the river! ...I know that it’s the natural company of such as I am! It comes from country places, where there was once no harm in it—and it creeps through the dismal streets, defiled and miserable—and it goes away, like my life, to a great sea, that is always troubled—and I feel that I must go with it! I can’t keep away from it. I can’t forget it. It haunts me day and night. It’s the only thing in all the world that I am fit for, or that’s fit for me. Oh, the dreadful river!"

Martha is in a frenzied state, but recognises Mr Peggotty,and then David. They tell her what they know about Emily, and Martha is keen to impress upon them that she had no part in Emily's disappearance. She would never wish a life like hers on Emily, who had always been pleasant, kind, and gentle to her.



Dan Peggotty, David and Martha by the river - Fred Barnard

Dan Peggotty is very understanding, saying that Martha might have been like Emily, if, when she was orphaned, she too had had a family friend to take care of her. He and David ask Martha to try to find out where Emily is, or what happened to her, and Martha vows that she will. She will take no money from them, because:

"To give me money would be to take away your trust, to take away the object that you have given me, to take away the only certain thing that saves me from the river."

They part from her, having given her their addresses, and each goes home.

As David nears his home in Highgate, he sees a light on in Aunt Betsey's cottage, and is surprised to see a man eating and drinking in her garden. She comes out of the cottage and gives the man money, and David realises that this is the same man he has seen before who frightens her.

When he has gone, David waits patiently in her little parlour, for an explanation. Aunt Betsey calms down and tells him that he is her husband, whom she used to love dearly:

"He repaid her by breaking her fortune, and nearly breaking her heart. So she put all that sort of sentiment, once and for ever, in a grave, and filled it up, and flattened it down."

She gives him money now and then, to keep him away, and in memory of the love she once had for him, and asks David to keep this to himself.


message 28: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Jun 16, 2020 05:01AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8482 comments Mod
This was such a dark and depressing chapter to begin Dickens's 16th installment! I think the language was particularly difficult, both with Mr Peggotty's dialect, and the unspoken words and double negatives all the way through. And of course, the description of Martha was pure melodrama, which is difficult to read with modern eyes, although her abjectness, and Dan Peggotty's horror and compassion I find are affecting, if you can push away 21st century sensibilities.

On the positive side, the descriptions are immensely powerful, which is why I included a long one in the summary :) You can't help but feel their sensations of revulsion, as we move through the streets alongside David and Mr Peggotty. The foulness of this particular area of London is vividly conveyed, and wonderfully described.

"Decomposed into that nightmare condition" is such an atmospheric line. And looking even closer, the description uses phrases like "had the appearance of vainly trying to hide themselves." This reminded me of Petra's observation that nobody in this novel is how they at first appear, which is a common theme of Dickens. The best novel to convey this is perhaps Our Mutual Friend.

Here, it indicates that even the foul objects sinking into the mire, are trying to disguise themselves, or become something else.


message 29: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Jun 16, 2020 05:24AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8482 comments Mod
I also like the part where Martha would not take a penny from them even in her desperate state. This reinforced Dickens's view of the "noble poor" as honest, loyal and trustworthy. It echoes Dan Peggotty's refusal to take money from Mrs Steerforth, and contrasts very well with Littimer, who would not value a mother's grief and desperation to hear of her son. His only consideration was the money she would give him for it. His respect is completely based on finance, and the world of commerce.

And did parts of this echo Uriah Heep to you? When Charles Dickens describes Martha as a person who "writhed ... stiffen[ed] and twist[ed]", I had an image of Uriah Heep, but it was quashed because her movements are from "insupportable recollections". David too, I'm pleased to note, does not instantly recoil from this (as I had thought he might) but is kind and tender towards Martha: "he put her shawl carefully about her."

David has matured, and perhaps Charles Dickens, in making this distinction, is encouraging his more prejudicial 19th century readers to have sympathy for the immense deprivation that Martha has endured. We learn that she too had no father and mother from a early age, but wonder about her upbringing, which diverged so much from Emily's as a child. I like that we learn this through one of the most compassionate characters, Mr Peggotty, and also see his changed attitude. I suspect Charles Dickens was saying to his Victorian readership, now look, don't be so judgemental.

This is the shape of Dickens to come in later novels - except that then it is interspersed with welcome humour, and there is none here. Not a jot in the whole chapter! I expected a change at the end, but no, we get more doom and gloom with Aunt Betsey.

We learn a little more of her story, and I apologise, Candi and Sara, for reminding you that we had been told her husband had gone to India ;) But that was all we had been told at that point, and there was no hint of anything else! Of course, even if you weren't "in the know," you probably suspected Dickens would not leave it at that ... :)

In another week of reading, we do learn more, and then I'll share the knotty conundrum about her I mentioned earlier.


message 30: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Jun 16, 2020 05:35AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8482 comments Mod
A little more ...

Since this is possibly the most depressing chapter so far, I'll share something to cheer us all up :) It relates to Emily at this point in the story.

There is a connection with the Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood, an Art movement which is not known quite so well outside this country.

A founding member was William Morris, (who is quite famous world-wide I think), and another leading member of the movement was William Holman Hunt. He painted works such as "The Light of the World" - an image which is reproduced to be hung on Sunday Schools' walls throughout the country. We also see it on Christmas cards and bookmarks etc. It's probably his most famous work. Here it is:



Quite a lot of Pre-Raphaelite paintings are on permanent display at the Tate Britain Art Gallery, and one I know well from there by William Holman Hunt is called The Awakening Conscience. You can imagine how surprised I was to learn that the inspiration for this painting was none other than Little Em'ly from David Copperfield! Here is is:



Holman Hunt had the idea while reading David Copperfield of making the conversion of a fallen woman a literal illustration of "The Light of the World." He was so deeply touched by Dan Peggotty's long search for little Emily, that he went exploring different haunts of "fallen girls" himself to find a suitable location to paint.

However, he decided not to illustrate any particular scene in the novel:

"While cogitating on the broad intention, I reflected that the instinctive eluding of pursuit by the erring one would not coincide with the willing conversion and instantaneous resolve for a higher life which it was necessary to emphasise".

He did not think it would be psychologically accurate, since he thought that such basic changes had to come from deep within one. He wanted to convey a specific moment - and also the idea that God works in mysterious ways.

What we see here is the irony of making the girl's seducer, Steerforth, unintentionally and unknowingly being the means of her salvation. Both of them are singing Moore's "Oft in the Stilly Night". Emily is startled by this into suddenly thinking of her childhood home, which we have been told she never went a day without remembering and thinking of. With this thought we see the moment in the painting where she suddenly leaps up, and:

"breaks away from her gilded cage with a startled holy resolve, while her shallow companion still sings on, ignorantly intensifying her repentant purpose".


message 31: by Rosemarie (new)

Rosemarie | 311 comments It was good to see the compassion David and Mr. Pegotty felt for Marsha.


message 32: by Elizabeth A.G. (last edited Jun 16, 2020 08:42AM) (new)

Elizabeth A.G. | 122 comments We know the kindness and compassion of Mr. Peggotty and how he opened his heart and home to orphaned family members and to Mrs. Gummidge, the widow of his partner. With Martha he once again provides a type of refuge to Martha, who has lost everything and is hopeless as she contemplates suicide. Without actually providing her a roof over her head at this point, Mr. Peggotty, perhaps without even realizing it, is once again providing "shelter," saving Martha from her psychological turmoil by showing compassion, trusting in her, and providing a reason and purpose for her to live. He relieves Martha of the guilt she has in her mind by relieving her of any blame about Emily. The action of David in providing the shawl to Martha is also symbolic of sheltering her. This is the only bright spot in this otherwise dismal scene. Martha is now ready to move ahead with new purpose.

This is all very psychological, and I think Dickens is perhaps ahead of his time in connecting environment, rejection by society, and the mental effects of poverty and oppression.

Your picture of William Holman Hunt's "Light of the World" is the religious embodiment of Mr. Peggotty's compassion and forgiveness. He lights the way to a new beginning. Great picture, Jean. Would love to find a bookmark with that image!! :-)


message 33: by Debra Diggs (new)

Debra Diggs I am glad to see Martha again. I hope this new purpose in life turns things around for her.

Now we know Aunt Betsey's dead husband is not really dead. It does seem a little odd to me though that she is giving him money.


message 34: by Sara (last edited Jun 16, 2020 10:58AM) (new)

Sara (phantomswife) | 1548 comments For me this chapter was fraught with realism. The descriptions were so powerfully presented that it was a wrenching experience. This is the first chapter that has brought literal tears to my eyes, and I found it interesting that a minor character such as Martha would be the one that would stir deep emotions in me. I am hoping that Mr. Dickens will not leave her character unresolved at the end. She is a conduit to Emily, but I wish now to know how she fairs.

I thought it telling of human nature that Mr. Peggotty (a very fine and feeling man) had wished only to protect Emily from any influence of Martha's and showed no real concern for Martha herself, but now that he has had this situation touch his own life, understands so much more and feels so differently. I think this is how most, if not all of us are, even if we try to be aware of another person's suffering, sometimes we can only really see or understand it when it touches us personally.

I was a little pleased that I had guessed about Aunt Betsey's husband, but I was completely surprised by the reason she gives him money...it is not blackmail but sentiment that drives her. She is such a good hearted woman and when she loves, she loves deeply.

Steerforth sank once more in my estimation by offering Emily to Littimer as if she were discarded chatel, and who could have thought he might sink lower yet.

Finally, Petra I loved your list and the observation of how so many of the characters are not what they seem.


message 35: by Elizabeth A.G. (last edited Jun 16, 2020 03:06PM) (new)

Elizabeth A.G. | 122 comments Aunt Betsey states that her husband is "nothing to me now, Trot -less than nothing." The times of her "tender passion" for her husband are gone but she retains feelings of the sentimental realist. She gives him money so that he will "go away" but not as a bribe, but because she would not be revengeful in seeing him punished for his offences, as he would probably go to prison for his offenses (crimes?) if he remained near. She does all this not be heroic, but out of her belief in what he once was and her dedication and determination in their ruined marriage.

I loved Aunt Betsey's phrase regarding her husband - "he soon made ducks and drakes of what I gave him." Per dictionary.com: Ducks and drakes is a pastime in which flat stones or shells are thrown across water so as to skip over the surface several times before sinking. Like these stones that finally would sink, her husband also "sank lower and lower" squandering their marriage and her money. She gives him money now so that he can go away - to prevent him "sinking" into prison, perhaps.

Now we know the "beginning, middle, and end" of Aunt Betsey's "grumpy, frumpy, story" and she wants it to be kept private.

This seems to be another ending of one of Dickens's subplots: the first being the resolution of Dr. and Annie Strong's problems (thanks to Mr. Dick) and now of Aunt Betsey's mystery visitor.


message 36: by Sara (new)

Sara (phantomswife) | 1548 comments I realize she is not still in love with the man, I still feel it is sentiment for the love she felt for him that drives her inability to turn him out with nothing.


message 37: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Jun 16, 2020 01:12PM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8482 comments Mod
I'm loving all these insights :)

Elizabeth A.G. wrote: "I think Dickens is perhaps ahead of his time in connecting environment, rejection by society, and the mental effects of poverty and oppression ..."

Yes, he's very persuasive to his Victorian readers, about topics they may not have connected - good observation! And he does it not by sermonising at them, like so many 19th century writers tended to do, but by telling a story which tugs at their heartstrings.

Sara wrote: "I found it interesting that a minor character such as Martha would be the one that would stir deep emotions in me."

This took me aback too - the fact that something involving a minor character can move you so much. For me it was at the death of Barkiss. Chris knew I was reading David Copperfield, but worried that I was crying. (I don't usually although if any writer can do it to me, Dickens can!) When I told him which bit it was, he was so surprised! I'm not sure he even remembered who "Barkiss" was!

Do you not play "ducks and drakes"? Perhaps you know it by another name. It is a lovely analogy, I agree, Elizabeth :)


message 38: by France-Andrée (last edited Jun 16, 2020 01:24PM) (new)

France-Andrée (iphigenie72) | 376 comments It's good for Martha to have something to do beside having suicide ideation. Having a purpose and caring about what she can do to Emily might be her salvation, we can hope at the end of this chapter.

I wonder about Aunt Betsey's husband and his second marriage. I don't think he's divorced from Aunt Betsey and even if he is supposed to be dead, this would be bigamy which is/was a crime... it might be a common law marriage, but that's not the way it's written. So if we wonder if he has done a crime or not, we could think he has done that one minimally.

I love the image of Emily's waking up... that is come from the pre-raphaelite movement which Dickens was really against and harsh with in the beginning (might have cost the career of a couple of artists there) is a nice irony. I know that later Dickens completely changed his mind and embraced the movement and made lasting friends in it, but I guess we will see that in the biography (if John Forster doesn't gloss over it).


message 39: by Elizabeth A.G. (new)

Elizabeth A.G. | 122 comments Sara wrote: "I realize she is not still in love with the man, I still feel it is sentiment for the love she felt for him that drives her inability to turn him out with nothing."

Definitely sentiment for the lost love and for the person she thought her husband was - a tempered sentiment for which I call her a sentimental realist. She cannot but be sentimental for her lost feelings and with a "practical" sentimentality, now helps him so that he can leave in order not to be punished for his offenses "as he would be if he prowled about in this country." It is for the sake of those lost feelings for him that she cannot see him punished now.


message 40: by Elizabeth A.G. (last edited Jun 16, 2020 02:25PM) (new)

Elizabeth A.G. | 122 comments Jean - In reference to the Hunt picture "The Light of the World" - it reminded me of the scene in Harper Lee's To Kill a Mockingbird when Scout and Jem are brought to Calpurnia's Black church, the First Purchase African M.E. Church, in which one of the only decorations was "The Light of the World."

Chapter 12
"First Purchase was unceiled and unpainted within. Along its walls unlighted kerosene lamps hung on brass brackets; pine benches served as pews. Behind the rough oak pulpit a faded pink silk banner proclaimed God Is Love, the church’s only decoration except a rotogravure print of Hunt’s The Light of the World."


message 41: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Jun 16, 2020 02:42PM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8482 comments Mod
Oh well spotted Elizabeth! I hadn't remembered that at all. We have a lot of Pre-Raphaelites here in the Tate Gallery (London), so they are familiar to me.

France-Andrée, Yes, Charles Dickens was against the Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood at first, you're right, but he changed his mind. I hope John Forster covers it, but he was tactful with his friend, and would not have wanted to write about anything which would cause him pain, even after Charles Dickens had died, so we'll have to wait and see. It may be in a later volume anyway.


message 42: by Elizabeth A.G. (last edited Jun 16, 2020 03:01PM) (new)

Elizabeth A.G. | 122 comments Bionic Jean wrote: "I'm loving all these insights :)

Do you not play "ducks and drakes"? Perhaps you know it by another name. It is a lovely analogy, I agree, Elizabeth :)

The game is called "skipping stones" here in America, although it may have other names that are unfamiliar to me. The game is the same: per Wikipedia "a flat stone is thrown across water in such a way (usually sidearm) that it bounces off the surface many times. The objective of the game is to see how many times a stone can bounce before sinking." Not as an imaginative name as the British name for the game!



message 43: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8482 comments Mod
Yes, that's the one :)


message 44: by Lori (new)

Lori | 123 comments I’m taking France-Andrée’s observation about Martha one step further. In fact, I find this chapter filled with hope. David and Mr Peggotty have found Martha and have given her a reason to live. I hope she finds Emily and goes on to make other changes in her life. And obviously, having three people looking for Emily ups the odds that she will be found especially since Martha has known Emily since childhood.

David now knows the worst and it’s not as quite as bad as his imagination could have conjured. At least he knows Aunt Betsey isn’t being blackmailed. Another positive result is that Aunt Betsey no longer has to bear the burden of her secret alone. I see her confession to David a sign that she trusts him as an adult which is a good thing.

The descriptions are exquisite. Granted, it’s not a rose garden that Dickens was writing about but I thought it was very realistic.

So, in the spirit of Copperfield’s love of children’s entertainment, I say this is a wonderful chapter filled with hope. The Cheese Stands Alone! Lol!


message 45: by Petra (new)

Petra | 2178 comments This was an interesting chapter. I also found hope in these pages. Hope that Martha will find her path and lead a good, happy life. Hope that Aunt Betsey will find a way to bring her peace in her situation. Getting it out into the open and off her chest is a good first step. Who knows? Maybe there's some redemption for her husband, too, in some way.

I would like to hear more of Martha's story and am glad that she's back.


message 46: by Petra (new)

Petra | 2178 comments Ducks & Drakes are called Skipping Stones here, too. It used to be so much fun counting the skips to see who skipped a stone the most. I still remember the thrill of my first skip. I had tried and tried and tried with no success for some time...….then a stone skipped (once) before it sank. Thrilling times. LOL


message 47: by Lori (new)

Lori | 123 comments Yay, Petra! I’m thinking this chapter set some things in motion that will change something for the better.

I seriously wouldn’t change a thing about this chapter. Dickens shines when he is poetic and atmospheric and I was/am totally prepared to enjoy my reader’s euphoria alone. Lol!

BTW, for anyone wanting to know more about the Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood, there is a BBC mini-series titled Desperate Romantics starring Aidan Turner and Tom Hollander as well as other wonderful cast members....


message 48: by Elizabeth A.G. (last edited Jun 16, 2020 08:27PM) (new)

Elizabeth A.G. | 122 comments In this chapter Dickens excels at presenting contrasts. David and Mr. Peggotty have encountered Martha at first in the noisy, brightly lit streets of Westminster where she stops to listen to a band (at the end of the previous chapter), then follow her and cross over to a side street "where the street ceases." In contrast to the bustling main streets, they now come to the rotting, gloomy, muck-ridden, junk-strewn river edge and of the stench and ooze of the polluted river. He contrasts the pristine river water of the countryside to what Martha describes as "the dreadful river" that is defiled and miserable in the city. Mr. Peggotty's face is a contrast of horror and compassion as he thinks that if someone had taken her in, Martha could have been like Emily. Mr. Peggotty declares Martha blameless of what happened to Emily and provides hope, purpose, and determination to her life that contrast with her prior hopelessness and desire to die. Martha was alone with no one to help her (except for Emily) or in whom she could confide.

Now she is no longer solitary but has supportive contacts as David and Peggotty provide her with their addresses so she can communicate with them if she finds Emily. It is interesting that she and the men form a conspiratorial plan that Martha will not let Emily know that she will inform Mr. Peggotty if she finds Emily due to the fear that Emily would again disappear because of her shame. There is now some light for Martha where before everything was darkness. These are probably all pretty obvious observations.

One thing that seems ominous in regard to Martha is David's observation that Martha had been ill for a long time and looks "worn and haggard." But his next thought "that her sunken eyes expressed privation," but also "endurance" indicating she is a survivor.

Can't help thinking again of Hunt's "Light of the World" especially in the character of Mr. Peggotty, although not as a Christ figure, but someone with the human values of compassion, love, hope and truth. Martha reaches out and touches him "as if there was some healing virtue in him."


message 49: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8482 comments Mod
Really love all these observations :)


message 50: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Jun 17, 2020 08:03AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8482 comments Mod
Chapter 48:

David is working hard at his writing, and still reporting on parliament for the newspaper. He tells us how outwardly modest he is about his success, although secretly he is quite proud. He also say that the only reason he includes this, is because he wants, with this record of his life, to show his progress. Eventually David decides that his writing is successful enough for him to leave off the reporting:

"I noted down the music of the parliamentary bagpipes for the last time, and I have never heard it since; though I still recognize the old drone in the newspapers, without any substantial variation."

He and Dora have been married for a year and a half, and new servants are taking advantage of them. The cook drinks and steals, and has taught a page (a young serving boy) to do the same. Because this boy is so young, and alone in the world, David does not feel he can throw him out:

"We wanted to get rid of him, but he was very much attached to us, and wouldn’t go."

The page is penitent when challenged, and begins to report on other people who are stealing from David and Dora.

"I got to be so ashamed of being such a victim, that I would have given him any money to hold his tongue."

The situation becomes so ridiculous and extreme, that David deliberately avoids the police, until the page's crimes are deemed so serious (when he steals Dora's gold watch) that he is transported to Australia. David decides enough is enough, and that he must talk to Dora about it. He makes several attempts to convey to her his idea, that their lack of any organisation for household management, leads to others being tempted into taking advantage of them. However, as always, Dora thinks he is accusing her, and gets very upset, complaining how hard-hearted he is.

"If I couldn’t bear her, why didn’t I send her away to her aunts at Putney, or to Julia Mills in India?"

David abandons the idea, and wonders if he can, in what he considers the common phraseology "form her mind". He perseveres with this course of instruction for several months; talking of the subjects which interest him, and reading her Shakespeare, and also regards this as an opportunity to also teach Traddles some "practical wisdom". Dora merely becomes depressed and disturbed, and David finally come to believe that despite his determination: "perhaps Dora’s mind was already formed".

Abandoning his task, he tells Dora:

"‘I have been trying to be wise.’
‘And to make me wise too,’ said Dora, timidly. ‘Haven’t you, Doady? ... It’s of not a bit of use ... You know what a little thing I am, and what I wanted you to call me from the first ... Are you sure you don’t think, sometimes, it would have been better to have—’"


And will not go any further. They make up, and David decides not to attempt to make any change in Dora. He loves her dearly, but is sorrowful, aware that:

"the happiness I had vaguely anticipated, once, was not the happiness I enjoyed, and there was always something wanting ... it would have been better for me if my wife could have helped me more, and shared the many thoughts in which I had no partner; and that this might have been; I knew."

David remembers his time with the Wickfields:

"the contented days with Agnes, in the dear old house ... What might have happened, or what would have happened, if Dora and I had never known each other? But she was so incorporated with my existence, that it was the idlest of all fancies, and would soon rise out of my reach and sight, like gossamer floating in the air."

And he remembers too the adages that had struck him when Annie was reflecting on her life, and her youth, to Dr Strong:

‘The first mistaken impulse of an undisciplined heart.’

‘There can be no disparity in marriage, like unsuitability of mind and purpose.’ 


But David keeps the "shadow" deep inside himself, and "it made my second year much happier than my first; and, what was better still, made Dora’s life all sunshine."

But Dora becomes weakened, by a miscarriage. Despite David's hopes that:

"a baby-smile upon her breast might change my child-wife to a woman. It was not to be. The spirit fluttered for a moment on the threshold of its little prison, and, unconscious of captivity, took wing."

Dora still hopes she may be strong, and is upset when Aunt Betsey tells her that Jip is getting old. Aunt Betsey says she may have another dog, but Dora says she could care for no other dog but Jip, who has always been her dog, and that ‘We may keep one another company a little longer!’.



Aunt Betsey and Dora - Fred Barnard

As the weeks pass, Dora becomes weaker, and needs to be carried up and down stairs. Everyone does what they can for her, Traddles and Mr Dick, and "my child-wife was the gayest there". But whenever David carries her Dora seems to weigh less and less, and he is fearful of facing what may be happening:

"[when] my aunt had left her with a parting cry of ‘Good night, Little Blossom,’ I sat down at my desk alone, and tried to think, Oh what a fatal name it was, and how the blossom withered in its bloom upon the tree!"


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