The Evolution of Science Fiction discussion
Group Reads 2020
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Nom's for BotM discussion: Jan. 2020 (1960-79)
I would like to nominateThe Wanderer
Fritz Leiber
1964
I read a Leiber novel not long ago and found myself liking his style. This one is on my TBR and won the Hugo in 1965.
Great!The Wanderer
Fantastic Voyage (Asimov, 1966)
Woman on the Edge of Time
Callahan's Crosstime Saloon
Bug Jack Barron
Female Man
The Stochastic Man
Dangerous Visions
The Cloud Walker
bio as in biology?No matter if it's not won awards.
It's quite the era, lots to consider. This time around I'm in the mood to push for Woman on the Edge of Time by Marge Piercy, 1976.One of my GR friends says 'the future is dated' but we're used to that here. We don't expect Piercy to be a fortune-teller. What she did do, very well, is explore sexism, racism, classism, environmental and technological issues, and mental illness. And this has been a popular book, even among people who don't normally read SF. Also, it's available to borrow on openlibrary.org.
There are plenty of other great authors that wrote in this period & you can find a list here. It also contains a list of the books we've read in this period.I'm going to nominate Callahan's Crosstime Saloon by Spider Robinson again. It's a collection of short stories. Not all are SF, but there is an other-worldly feel to even the mundane ones. We haven't read a collection of short stories in a long time, either.
Oh no worries; I'm sure we'll get *more* than enough nominations! Jim's comment was for everyone who hasn't yet posted. :)
Forthenco Pacino wrote: "I'll be honest, I havent had much sci fi except asimov, and most of his stuff is in the 50's(he's written a lot in the 60s and 70s too, but I havent read any from that era.), so might not be of muc..."You picked a good book & I wouldn't mind rereading it. It is one of the classics. The last time I read it I kept seeing scenes from the movie. Not surprising since it starred Stephen Boyd & Raquel Welch, big names at the time, my formative years & Asimov wrote the novelization of the movie.
One of the authors of the original story was Jerome Bixby who I know best for It's a Good Life, one of the most chilling SF stories ever written. Rod Serling made that into one of the best of the original Twilight Zone episodes starring Billy Mummy who went on to play Will Robinson in the original "Lost in Space".
A general question, for non-English works that have English translation we use original publication date or translation?
Oleksandr wrote: "A general question, for non-English works that have English translation we use original publication date or translation?"I'd say original publication date.
I nominate Lucifer's Hammer by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, originally published in 1977 and nominated for Hugo
I began reading SF in the early 1970s. Not only did it open my mind to classic SF issues which I had watched on rabbit-ears TV in the 1960s, but '70s SF introduced me to the concept of social science fiction, which I still love to this day. It's difficult to know what has a chance in these polls, but I would like to get in the nomination of one of those social sci-fi books which blew my mind way back then. I will nominate:The Female Man
Joanna Russ
1975
I nominate Bug Jack Barron by Norman Spinrad from 1969. Nominated for a Hugo in 1970
Oleksandr wrote: "A general question, for non-English works that have English translation we use original publication date or translation?"I, too, would go with original publication date, as that is the era and context within which it was written.
Good question though. I'd be willing to hear arguments to the contrary.
So, by 'story' of Bixby's Fantastic Voyage apparently you mean story idea to present to the studio? I find no evidence there was an actual magazine or anthology story... ?
Oleksandr wrote: "I nominate Lucifer's Hammer by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, originally published in 1977 and nominated for Hugo"We read that back in August 2014 along with The Mote in God's Eye.
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
They are on the bookshelf, but I missed putting them into the topic list. Sorry about that. Anyway, please pick another.
Tony wrote: "I nominate Bug Jack Barron by Norman Spinrad from 1969. Nominated for a Hugo in 1970"Please use the book & author links in a nomination.
Mod
Woman on the Edge of Time looks interesting, but I picked it up from the library once and it just looked so big and long that I set it right back down again.
But Ed, 20K Leagues wasn't as big as you thought it was going to be. Look at Piercy's again!
I would like to nominate Dangerous Visions which is considered a seminal collection from this period and on the list. However, it is a collection of stories not a novel so once again I am asking clarification...https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6...
Dangerous Visions, Harlan Ellison, Editor, 1967
The link is to the 35th Anniversary edition.
Gregg wrote: "I would like to nominate Dangerous Visions which is considered a seminal collection from this period and on the list. However, it is a collection of stories not a novel so once again I am asking cl..."That's fine. It's a great collection & I nominated a book of short stories myself.
Good question, though. I thought single author collections were fine, but I wasn't too sure about anthologies. Thanks Jim, and Gregg!
I'll second the nomination for the original "Dangerous Visions" -- which was a Big Deal when published, and which I'd been halfway thinking of rereading. It had at least two award-winning stories (Delaney & Leiber), and some others that merit rereading.Then again, reading some of the complaints about Ellison, his misogyny & his Giant Ego.... Well, maybe not?
Peter wrote: "...Then again, reading some of the complaints about Ellison, his misogyny & his Giant Ego.... Well, maybe not?"Ellison was a jerk in many ways. His fight with Rodenberry over "The City on the Edge of Forever" was ludicrous as I wrote in my review. I think I would have detested the man in person, but he was also one hell of an author. He brought together some of the best authors of the time to create great collaborative stories. I'll definitely reread this with the group if it's chosen. I judge the book, not the personal life of the author.
I never heard of Edmund Cooper before I joined this group, but now it seems that his name comes up in nomination and other threads often. I don't think we've read anything by him yet, though... and checking the shelves, apparently not.
Indeed, it is seriously best not to know about the artist and to just consider their body of work.They are just human beings and not always the best ones...
Whatever happened with the nun who said she was the real Harlan Ellison???
Cheryl wrote: "I never heard of Edmund Cooper before I joined this group, but now it seems that his name comes up in nomination and other threads often. I don't think we've read anything by him yet, though... and..."I tend to mix him up with Edmond Hamilton for some reason. They're contemporaries, but I haven't read anything by Cooper that I recall. I'll have to remedy that with or without the group. I like Hamilton's work, but it's more adventure with magical science, real pulp SF. I loved the Starwolf trilogy & The Valley of Creation.
I might be mixing them up, too. Hmm. We, as a group, will have to get around to reading something by each so we all can sort them out!
Gregg wrote: "Whatever happened with the nun who said she was the real Harlan Ellison??? "I don't know but it sounds like the beginning to a terrific joke. "So this nun walks into a bar..."
RJ wrote: "Gregg wrote: "Whatever happened with the nun who said she was the real Harlan Ellison??? "I don't know but it sounds like the beginning to a terrific joke. "So this nun walks into a bar...""
How about a nun, a boy and his dog walk into a bar....
Jim wrote: "RJ wrote: "Gregg wrote: "Whatever happened with the nun who said she was the real Harlan Ellison??? "I don't know but it sounds like the beginning to a terrific joke. "So this nun walks into a ba..."
He wrote the ending to that story...although she wasn't much of a nun.
While we are poking at Ellison, here is a quote from Brooks Landon's "Bet On It: Cyber/video/punk performance":"Such a a film would be hyperreal, but could be made to do impossible things, like showing a punked-out John Wayne on a pogo stick, Harlan Ellison apologizing, or the Beaver in mirrorshades, Ward and June in drag. Would not such a representation be inherently science fictional, the essence of cyberpunk? And won't it be fun?"
We have the following as nominations:The Wanderer
Fantastic Voyage (Asimov, 1966)
Woman on the Edge of Time
Callahan's Crosstime Saloon
Bug Jack Barron
Female Man
The Stochastic Man
Dangerous Visions
The Cloud Walker
Looks like a good selection.
I expect we'll need a runoff poll, with that many noms. Any plurality is likely to be far from a majority....However, that doesn't mean we're closing this thread now. You still have a week!
And I'm making the poll now. Please campaign for your favorite either here or in the comments to the poll.
It's a tough call for me. I nominated "Callahan's Crosstime Saloon", so I'm voting for it. They're great short stories, the best that Robinson has ever done as a group, IMO. But, "Fantastic Voyage" & "Dangerous Visions" are both excellent, too. I've got really good memories of 'Voyage' & I want to keep them. I'm afraid with all the changes in tech & medicine since it was written, I'll be disappointed. "Dangerous Visions" is the real quandary for me. It's a lot longer than 'Callahan's' but it contains stories by some of the very best. I was looking through the ToC of it the other day remembering many of the stories. Ellison did a fantastic job with it.
Indeed he did. That is why folks were so frustrated at the length to publish Again Dangerous Visions and the never released third collection. Some of the third collection stories have never been published I understand.
Is 600 pages that much for most readers?
Marc-André wrote: "Is 600 pages that much for most readers?"It is for me if it's a novel now. If an author can't tell the story in about 300 pages, then I probably won't like it or their writing. There's too much of something & I'll get bored. Either they're wordy or the story is too complex.
Anthologies are different. They're like a box of chocolates; always something different. If I don't like one, I skim/skip it & move on to the next. If I like 3/4 of the stories, the editor has done a great job.
Jim wrote: "Anthologies are different. They're like a box of chocolates; always something different. If I don't like one, I skim/skip it & move on to the next. If I like 3/4 of the stories, the editor has done a great job."Indeed, that would be a great job.
Usually, I find that the first short story and the last are the better ones, or the editor thought they were the better ones. The rest being filler or trials or misses.
Dangerous Visions seems to be an outlier with a higher quality ratio. Thus its cult status.
Whether or not the size of the book will intimidate members of this group, I don't know. If it wins, it'll be interesting to see the participation level.
Anthologies come in many types. Sometimes it is the first time folks get access to these writers smaller length works especially in the Golden Age and before.Now a lot of them are just teasers for novels and series. The publishing world's version of click bait.
And some like Dangerous Visions and Mirrorshades exposes readers to a sea change in the SF world...
I also always liked the Hugo and Nebula Award anthologies since it didn't require you to read multiple mags back in the day...
I tried to read some Year in SF anthologies but they became too massive and tome like after the world went digital and work published exploded.
Yeah, I dunno if I'd ever nominate a more recent anthology. But I do hope that Dangerous Visions does well in the poll.
The Evolution of Science Fiction
Books mentioned in this topic
The Female Man (other topics)Dangerous Visions (other topics)
The Valley of Creation (other topics)
The Cloud Walker (other topics)
The Stochastic Man (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Edmond Hamilton (other topics)Edmund Cooper (other topics)
Robert Silverberg (other topics)
Larry Niven (other topics)
Jerry Pournelle (other topics)
More...
Sci-fi novels or collections of short stories that have not previously been read by the group are eligible, so long as we've not read the author too many times already. Please check the bookshelf (https://www.goodreads.com/group/books...) & the nomination rules (https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...) for further clarification before nominating a book.
Please also add your nominated book title as a clickable link directly to the goodreads' book page, with author and year, so it looks like this:
Children of Time
Adrian Tchaikovsky
2015
We'd appreciate it if you tell everyone a bit about why you chose the book that you're nominating, but we don't require that.
Bear in mind, too, that we'll mostly likely be closing this nomination thread on the 15th, in order to have plenty of time for poll(s) and then for acquisitions of the winner(s).
Everything you can do to help the moderators' tasks will help the group flourish, so thank you!