Space Opera Fans discussion
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Struggles with Unending Series
I was wondering as I was reading if you were talking Star Trek, Star Wars or even, though it's not space opera, D&D Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, etc. I dealt by quitting them. Just quit. Traded in or donated what I had and moved on to other books. I still read series just not the multi-author, multi-world or should I say multi-universe type. Some wonder how I can keep track of series of 20, 30 or more books. Easy, I read Trek, including fanzines, then SW and D&D. As for Dune having an end? If Dune movie in the works is popular you can expect there to be more books.
I hear you 100% on the old Star Wars books. I absolutely had to read every single one for a long time. After New Jedi Order I stopped that trend. There are still a lot of Legends books I haven't read (mostly the ones after NJO timeline wise and some of the Clone Wars books), Right now I focus on the ones that sound interesting and read a few reviews on here before diving in. The new Cannon books are also now ones I read when I have the time instead of ones I need to read right away. I've found the new cannon is the same mix of quality as the legends books. Some great (Dark Disciple, Thrawn) some horrible (Aftermath) and most in the middle (Lords of the sith, Tarken).
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Generally with series that just never end, eventually I give up on them. I don't see that happening with Liaden Universe, but I gave up on Star Wars, Star Trek, and quite a few book-only series years ago. Some of them I still enjoy rereading, but I'm not tempted to buy the next one and usually don't care to reread the last one I did purchase.
The problem with Star Wars and Star Trek novels is that you get a lot of books where the author had a cool idea and shoehorned it into SW/ST because it was an easy way to reach an audience. My real bugbear is single authors who just will not finish a series. I don't mean they've stopped writing it, I mean where with each new book in the series the end seems to recede ever further into the distance.
There is a certain author whom I doubt will ever write day3/book 3 of his fantasy series which angers me. He created the overall arch of the story and set it up to be a trilogy with the first part of book 1.'Doesn't he feel any obligation to the readers? If he writes anything else I won't reading but it.
Lizzie wrote: "There is a certain author whom I doubt will ever write day3/book 3 of his fantasy series which angers me. He created the overall arch of the story and set it up to be a trilogy with the first part ..."More than one author guilty of that. Some of them make a habit of it. Very annoying and it gets them on my do not want list.
I am a huge Star Trek fan. But when I started there was only one series. I bought or from the library read a lot of Star Wars, but we didn't have as much sci fi available or accessible in the 80s and early 90s so it was manageable. With new Star Trek series on TV there were books for each one and I bought them all. Eventually, I limited myself to STOS and Voyager, along with a few side series like Section 31. Since these two published less often than STNG, I added in Enterprise. I buy and read these but with no shelf room I boxed them up. Over 700 Books From 70s Onward.
My daughter is A Fan so eventually they will be hers. Maybe some of the old ones will be worth money when I die or maybe no one will want them. If technology and amazon hadnt increased my options, I might have reread more of them. My daughter, like Mom, likes owning books. I have other series packed away too. Setting aside television series, I have over 125 feet of sci fi books on bookshelves in my family room. My son is putting in his find for some of those.
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I vow to never drag any of the books that I write on and on. I can see it, if there is an interest, but there needs to be good content. Otherwise, you get the Stephanie Plum series. It’s not sci-fi and I know someone who loves them, but it’s pretty much the same rehash in every book...now on #24.
Teresa wrote: "Re: authors never writing the third book. If an author starts a series with one publisher, the contract often stated that they can't sell any other books in the series elsewhere. But then if the pu..."Yeah. but it still sucks and the author still bears the brunt of audience anger. Unless they tell all and sundry who's holding the cards.
I'm a big fan of the Star Wars books. I got into them in 1995, and I used to read every one, even the young adult and junior reader books. As my time and resources have become a little tighter, I have given myself permission to skip books that I am not interested in reading.I am not upset that some Legends books won't fit in with the new movies and other stories that Lucasfilm and the publishers are telling. The great stories are still great, and there are awesome new novels like Lost Stars and Dark Disciple that are absolutely worth reading.
I'm also very much a fan of the Trek tie-ins. I go more for the post-series and "event" type books, but the mission-of-the-month adventures are also enjoyable when written well.
Comics are another place where I am used to no real end to the stories, but the smaller stories do still have beginnings, middles, and ends that sometimes overlap with other tales.
Teresa wrote: "Re: authors never writing the third book. If an author starts a series with one publisher, the contract often stated that they can't sell any other books in the series elsewhere. But then if the pu..."The authors I was thinking of are all indies but you brought to mind one from years ago who left one publisher for another. There were rumors about contract and negotiations for final book. I read an author interview, so not rumor, author stated not the kind of book now writing, not interested in that genre and will never go back and finish.
I was actually surprised when I realized fairly early on that you were referring to Star Wars. Surprised in that I never thought of the Star Wars (or Star Trek; or Stargate for that matter) series in the same way I'd think of a series by a solo or small group of authors series. I saw/see it as a universe, not a series. A universe that has series in it. I could pick and choice books - especially since what happened with book by author x, might have nothing what-so-ever to do with what was going on with author y's mini-series (though book 1 of x's mini-series had impact on book 2, 3, etc of x's series inside the Star Wars universe; like what was happening in Stackpole's X-Wing series didn't particularly have to have any connection to, say Zahn's Thrawn trilogy; mind, I didn't expect them to contradict each other, just tell a wider universe story that might, rarely, include some characters that might overlap).Like, if I read the first book in the Jedi academy trilogy, then I'd probably read all three books, but just because I read those three books didn't build within me the need to read anything else in the extended series.
Though there was one specific series within the Star Wars universe that seemed to be of the never ending kind - that X-Wing one that went many books, several authors, and I believe I still haven't read the last book in that one.
Mind, my comment isn't pro/con the concept of unending series. I've read many series that seemed unending, like King's Gunslinger one (which is not, obviously enough, space opera), or Asimov's foundation one (both in that it was a short story that became a trilogy, then the trilogy had more books appear, then more authors appeared to write a prequel series; then, after Asimov's death, every series Asimov wrote is suddenly all part of the same series . . . somehow. The robot series, the empire series, the foundation series, all same series now. pfft).
The Star Wars books that I have read are each their own story set in the overall Star Wars universe; so no problem there. I am OK with the continuing of the Liaden Universe because each book moves the story forward in a concrete way. What drives me crazy is when a book covers a few hours or a day, then a couple of years later the next book is published and it picks up a week (or a day) later than the previous book, etc. (thinking the fantasy series Chronicles of Elantra by Michelle Sagara, for example). That type of thing will lead me to stop reading a series. I want something to HAPPEN.
Overall, I feel happier if I feel there is a plan - like Kristine Katherine Rusch did with her Anniversary Day saga not too long ago.
Oh yeah - that reminds me of the 1632 series by Eric Flint. That started in year 1632. Something like 25+ books later (the series is confusing to number) and the series is up to year . . 1636. The series has managed to record four years of series time over 25+ books over 18 publishing years (first book published in 1999 or 2000, most recent book published in 2017 or 2018).
I’ve never thought of this as an issue, probably because I became a hardcore reader long before SFF had much in the way of open-ended series.Back in the day (by which I mean the early- to mid-70s) there were already decades of books to pique my interest, with series that stretched for hundreds of books. The Tom Swift series, the Hardy Boys, Nancy Drew, Oz, etc. I knew getting into them that I’d never be able to read all of them, so when it happened in Science Fiction and Fantasy too, I wasn’t bothered by it.
Lexxi Kitty wrote: "I was actually surprised when I realized fairly early on that you were referring to Star Wars. Surprised in that I never thought of the Star Wars (or Star Trek; or Stargate for that matter) series in the same way I'd think of a series by a solo or small group of authors series. I saw/see it as a universe, not a series."Totally.
I don’t think anyone considers an “expanded universe” (Star Wars) or “shared universe” (Wild Cards) as part of a series. They certainly contain series within them, and as mentioned earlier by Brandon, comic books are that way, with a neverending story that encompasses shorter story arcs.
It seems like there are a dozen Warhammer books published every week, and looking at them from the outside as someone who has never read any of them, they appear to be about distinct characters and/or situations rather than a single overarching tale.
the specific 3rd book I am referring to was promised several years ago. It seems to be an author problem. It has a name. It shows up as shelved on Goodreads, but the author hasn't finished it to the best of my knowledge. Even if you are fighting with your publisher or original contract, you still have an obligation to your readers. I invested in the first 2 books; it is cliffhanger and not simply another story in the same world. Doors of Stone (The Kingkiller Chronicle #3) by Patrick Rothfuss,
Is there any series you wish didn't end, but it did? I will forever wish for more Pern novels by Anne McCaffrey (not her son). However, I have had my fill of Honor Harrington novels.
Trike wrote: "Lexxi Kitty wrote: "I was actually surprised when I realized fairly early on that you were referring to Star Wars. Surprised in that I never thought of the Star Wars (or Star Trek; or Stargate for ..."Would you rather Pat rushed through book 3 and put out something that was sub par drivel, just to finish the series, or ended the series with another clear masterwork?
There was a blog post a while back where he listed out the reasons the book was taking so long.
For one, Pat's books are generally very long. For each book we get, he could easily have split them out into two or three books.
For another, writing great prose takes a long time, and his process is a slow one. The Name of the Wind took him something like 10 years to write, but you didn't complain of the time it took because you didn't know what you were missing.
So, sadly, if he writes slow, laboring over each word, and it takes some time, we might not get a speedy book.
It's a shame, but it's just his process.
Alternatively, I suppose he could rush out a bunch of little books, but then we would be in something like a Wheel of Time series situation. Some of the books in the middle were kind of "eh" but I felt like I had to push through to get to the end.
I enjoyed the Pern books but even some of the latter ones by Anne I wasn't crazy about. Unless a series ends mid story arc I'm usually okay with it ending. Better end than go off in a strange direction almost guaranteed to be disliked by readers of early books or becoming ridiculously repetitive.
Dan wrote: "Would you rather Pat rushed through book 3 and put out something that was sub par drivel, just to finish the series, or ended the series with another clear masterwork?."Looks like you’re replying to the wrong person there. Lizzie is wanting more Rothfuss, not me. I’ve never read any of his stuff.
L J wrote: "I enjoyed the Pern books but even some of the latter ones by Anne I wasn't crazy about. Unless a series ends mid story arc I'm usually okay with it ending. Better end than go off in a strange direc..."I remember someone snarkily commenting on McCaffrey’s milking of Pern by saying, “How long before she gets around to doing a story about the dolphins of Pern?” A few years later, sure enough, she wrote The Dolphins of Pern.
I’ve always kind of wondered if she saw that comment and thought, “Great idea! Also, up yours!” Heh.
That's hilarious about the Dolphins. I haven't finished past the second book. I've heard it turns "sci-fi" which I think I'd be into. I admit that I steer away from series that are too long (like Dresden) because it feels like a big commitment. Or books like Way of Kings - I just can't bring myself to slog through a book I dislike, hoping to like future books, when there are seven or more ahead.
Bruyere wrote: "That's hilarious about the Dolphins. I haven't finished past the second book. I've heard it turns "sci-fi" which I think I'd be into. ..."When the sci-fi elements start coming in, it's kind of wonderful. I think it was in the Harper Hall books...? Been a while. And then Dragonsdawn is the one that tells of the coming of the colonists to Pern. Good stuff. (As not all of it is.)
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I'll have to look at where all these books are in the series! Thanks for clarifying. Do you all feel that Dune became too much?
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What about Silver Ships, I had my eyes on that series for a while now, I just noticed that book 10 just came out on Audible. Does anyone have any opinion about that series?
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Edit: note that I reread a LOT.
I was surprised to find out that Dune has more recent stories: Dune: Red Plague and Dune: The Waters of Kanly.
And let's not forget the classic, Dune: The Search For More Money
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Dan wrote: "And let's not forget the classic, Dune: The Search For More Money"Dune: I Need A Summer Cottage
Trike wrote: "Dan wrote: "And let's not forget the classic, Dune: The Search For More Money"Dune: I Need A Summer Cottage"
You guys crack me up! 😆
I'm happy enough to leave Dune as a 14-book series (original six, two prequel trilogies, and the two-part conclusion). I read Paul of Dune, and it was okay, but it was not essential. I have not heard anything about the recent novels that makes them sound worth the time.
I liked the House of ___ Dune books, but they are really different style than the originals. I think if you're interested in the history leading up to Dune they are pretty good. Honestly, I got a little tired of original Herbert's writing style, so I was happy for a new style (it's more contemporary style).I think if a series has different sections it makes it easier to read as you can stop at whatever section.
Has nobody really mentioned A Song of Ice and Fire yet?
When it comes to Dune I hold to my earlier statement in message 2. A successful movie will lead to more books. I can foresee whole series of spinoff books. It's a universe rich with possibilities yet unexplored just waiting to make some enterprising publisher with the right publicity machine a pile of money.
Tobias wrote: "Has nobody really mentioned A Song of Ice and Fire yet?"Because that will be a DNF series. That’s a bit of a different issue than ongoing series with numerous volumes.
When Martin started writing that series, he was 46 years old. He is now 69 with (at least) two volumes to go. He likely won’t finish them.
The only comparable series that comes to mind is David Gerrold’s Chtorr novels. Like Martin, he originally conceived it as a trilogy, then it grew bigger, and he has not yet finished the fifth and sixth books. The first one came out in 1983 and the fourth one in 1993. At some point he announced that the final book would be published in 2015, which came and went without anything else being said. It’s now been 25 years since the 4th installment. By that measure, Martin is cooking right along with ASoIaF.
Lizzie wrote: "Is there any series you wish didn't end, but it did? I will forever wish for more Pern novels by Anne McCaffrey (not her son). However, I have had my fill of Honor Harrington novels."
+1
My 2c: for the SW/ST universes etc, I look to the authors. I've read some of these by Peter David or KKR, but not others.For series, it really depends on the ability to evolve the central characters. Longknife was good at this in the beginning, but the last few have been tough. The Vatta series was also good.
How about Asimov's Foundation and Robot series?
Or CJ's Foreigner series?
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I'm lucky in that I started ASOIAF fairly late, so I'm less annoyed. Given that we will find out the general idea of the ending from the tv show, I'm mostly okay with it.
For the game of thrones books, I feel like there's still a good chance they get finished.Martin has 2 -3 books of material already (supposedly), so there's a good chance he'll release two books quickly, and then he just needs 1 more book to wrap things up.
Even if he passes, I would hope he'd have it completed posthumously, using his copious notes and existing material.
And hopefully using someone who writes a bit faster.
LOL
Dan wrote: "Even if he passes, I would hope he'd have it completed posthumously, using his copious notes and existing material."He has specifically stated that no one will write any stories posthumously. There will be no Wheel of Time situation for Westeros if Martin doesn’t finish it himself.
I've seen the suggested reading order for the combined Robot/Empire/Foundation books, and I have read all of them. Since I do not like where the story went after Second Foundation, and the Empire books are pretty forgettable, I generally think of them as the robot series (short stories and four novels) and the Foundation quintet (two prequels and the main three books).
Brandon wrote: "I've seen the suggested reading order for the combined Robot/Empire/Foundation books, and I have read all of them. Since I do not like where the story went after Second Foundation, and the Empire b..."I started reading Asimov in the early 1960's. I know it is but don't think of this as a series. It was the Asimov universe in which short stories and books, sometimes related, took place. Andre Norton universe is another I think of this way.
Trike wrote: "Dan wrote: "Even if he passes, I would hope he'd have it completed posthumously, using his copious notes and existing material."He has specifically stated that no one will write any stories posth..."
Eh. That could change when his story is close to finished.
All I know is lots of people are living till their 80s these days., Let's hope he lives a long life and gets to finish his masterwork. :D
Space Opera Fans
Books mentioned in this topic
Sweep of the Blade (other topics)Dragonsdawn (other topics)
The Dolphins of Pern (other topics)
Then something happened that shattered that entire world... Suddenly, I was told that it did not exist. All those books, all that money spent, all those stories...they never happened. They are all just legends. WTF? So, they started releasing books that were canon. I started collecting those book, all along wondering how I’m suppose to deal with the old ones. And the forecast looks like the series may never have an end, and is thus becoming overwhelming once again. Since they are making tons if money, why should they stop?
If you have not figured out what I’m referring to, it is Star Wars. I may have found a solution to my struggle. I’ve been thinking about only keeping the books associated with movies. That would be a simple solution. And maybe some of my favorite legends too... Hmm. The struggle is real!
You know what, I like the Dune Chronicles. There are a lot of Dune books, but it is manageable. An end exists to it all and I like that. Has anyone else struggled with a series that is just too much? How do you deal with it?