Stephen King Fans discussion
This topic is about
The Shining
2nd Round of King Books
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The Shining - Book 3
Nicole wrote: "mrbooks wrote: "Room 217 in the Overlook hotel I know I will get into an argument with people at work who only watch the movie and not read the book. Or I should say I will correct them, the have g..."I haven’t seen the movie since it came out at the theaters. I can’t remember all the changes. I do remember walking out and being disappointed that there were so many changes. That’s is an odd change to change a room number. Interesting.
I think some of the biggest issue in terms of what the hotel can or cannot do is the fact that we get all of our information from Halloran, based upon his limited experiences. We don't really get anything definitive, just what he thinks is true based on what he's seen. But he really isn't fully sure himself when all is said and done. So while he assumes only those with a touch of the shine can see things, we don't really know how accurate that is. It's a flawed source of information, and we know it's flawed because some of the key information he gives is proven to be incorrect.I do disagree though that just because the hotel might be able to affect everyone, it doesn't mean it necessarily would. If it needs people inside of it for whatever it does, then it's not going to do something which will actively drive everyone away by scaring everything single person. Scaring everyone would be counterproductive, and while it may be evil, it's supposedly a cunning evil, and as such scaring people here and there makes perfect sense to me.
One other thing though that I haven't seen mentioned yet that I'm curious about other opinions on. (view spoiler)
Ben wrote: " Everyone has some sort of inner demon. No one lives a clean life. ..." I’m thinking really bad stuff. Not your typical stuff because no one is perfect.
mrbooks wrote: "Actually I loved the way he did it, it gives us a chance to fill in the blanks in our own way and it also gives us a platform for such lively discussions. Out of 100 people you will get 101 differe..."Yes, I like when the book is left for interpretation. I don’t need all the answers. Our own imagination can fill in the blanks and that’s why each person has a different experience with a book. Even with a re-read of book at different times in their life.
OK here is something I noticed. A bit of an error on page 82 Danny tells Halloran that we read a kid who was looking at radio's and wanted one but didn't have the money so he was just going to take it.Go to page 200, OK in my book LOL Chapter 22 in the Truck The kid is thinking of stealing a TV. Oops
It is not proven those without the shine can see anything. Actually I think it is, Wendy doesn't have the Shine and she doesn't see anything both Jack and Danny do.
(view spoiler)
Ben wrote: "Nancy wrote: "But being depressed and bitter that your ancester spent all their millions on hotel then closed it and left you poor doesn’t make you a truely evil person does it?..."Yes it can.
De..."
That’s true. Money will do things to some people. But I think you have to have something inside of you to begin with.
Like you said, it depends on the person. If Watson was that kind of person, then I think the evil at the Ocerlook wouldmhave gotten him already. Unless, he knows something we don’t know and left that scrapbook...
No I don't think Watson is evil, He is exactly what he looks like a bit of a back woods man who really doesn't care about anything but the Overlook Hotel. Yes it is no longer his, but I have a feeling in the sales contract there must be a clause in it which provides for his continual employment no matter what. He does care about the Hotel in his own way but not in an evil way.
Ben wrote: "mrbooks wrote: "No I don't think Watson is evil, He is exactly what he looks like a bit of a back woods man who really doesn't care about anything but the Overlook Hotel. Yes it is no longer his, b..."I agree with that.
Ben wrote: "One other thing though that I haven't seen mentioned yet that I'm curious about other opinions on. [What of the wasps? Was it truly just a defective bug bomb as Jack surmises, or was the hotel invo..."At first I thought maybe the wasps were not real but Wendy saw the wasps too. She got stung and she killed a few.
The question is did Jack really bug bomb it or does he just think he did?
Yes I think he did but like I said he didn't do it in an enclosed environment.
mrbooks wrote: "Yes I think he did but like I said he didn't do it in an enclosed environment."So he didn’t follow the directions? Did a crappy job?
I think the wasp incident was just a teaser or bait and switch. Trying to scare us and make us think it’s not real but it is.
I really liked the fire hose and Danny. It reminds me of what kind of thing goes through your mind/imagination when you’re a kid.
I think Halloran is a bit of an unreliable narrator, and like someone said, we only read what he thinks, there are no real facts as far as the hotel's powers, needs, wants or ways to get them. The fact that King leaves all that open to interpretation is what makes this book so fun to dissect and discuss.
I still think Dr Sleep alludes to the fact it is the hotel that wants Danny and Horace is still chasing him. I don't have the novel to hand but Danny references his father as a pawn?Its the hotel that allows Jack to see things not necessarily any Shine?
Yes, it’s the hotel that allows Jack to see things and not the shine. In Ch 44 Jack is at the party (which is almost midnight in the hallucination but actually 6am) and talking to Grady. Grady said the hotel left him the scrapbook. He said it was the hotel that hired him. He said your son has a great talent, that could be used to further improve the Overlook, to enrich it.
So could the hotel’s power reach beyond it borders? Could it have caused Jack to lose his temper and his job? To get him to this low point and to the Overlook? It knew about Danny so far away?
Ben wrote: "What Holloran thinks is about ten pages long. ..."Probably even more, but it's still only Halloran's thoughts, guesses and assumptions.
Nancy wrote: "Yes, it’s the hotel that allows Jack to see things and not the shine. In Ch 44 Jack is at the party (which is almost midnight in the hallucination but actually 6am) and talking to Grady. Grady sa..."
No I don't think it was the hotel, but look who his best friend and drinking buddy is, funny don't you think one of the main stock holders is also his best friend. A best friend who got him his job at the hotel, insisted that Jack gets the job, does this sound like a setup to you.
First off, I read a lot of this book in a semi-dark room with only one lamp light on (thanks Nick Iuppa) and definitely got more into the story; my heart was thumping during certain parts.Touching on some of the major discussions going on:
(view spoiler)
Everyone's comments really made me think about some things I hadn't considered before - lots of interesting theories!
Nicole wrote: "First off, I read a lot of this book in a semi-dark room with only one lamp light on (thanks Nick Iuppa) and definitely got more into the story; my heart was thumping during certain parts.Touching..."
Hi Nicole, (view spoiler)
Nicole wrote: "First off, I read a lot of this book in a semi-dark room with only one lamp light on (thanks Nick Iuppa) and definitely got more into the story; my heart was thumping during certain parts.Touching..."
A ghost tried to strangle Danny so I think a ghost could unlock a door.
Nancy wrote: "Yes, it’s the hotel that allows Jack to see things and not the shine. In Ch 44 Jack is at the party (which is almost midnight in the hallucination but actually 6am) and talking to Grady. Grady sa..."
Totally agree Nancy
Nick wrote: "Maria wrote: "Nicole wrote: "OMG just finished The Shining and I looooved it. Actually probably my favorite King book I've read so far. About to watch the movie with Jack Nicholson again then I'll ..."I think the tragedy of the book is that Jack is not evil at all. But he is damaged, and flawed, corrupted by alcohol, and eventually by the hotel. I think his moments of doubt and clarity show that he is not actually evil, though. Good people can do evil things (the road to hell is paved with good intentions), and it was the corruption in Jack that the hotel used to do evil things.
I agree and to be out there at all would drive anyone crazy.
mrbooks wrote: "Good call on that Ben, poor Jack can't seem to catch a break. [spoilers removed]"I may have started some of this "Jack is evil" stuff, but that's not what I meant, I suggested that instead of the shining, Jack had an evil lurking in him, that was the anger and cruelty that he inherited from his father. I think it's almost too easy to blame all this on alcohol; he came from a long line of people capable of great anger and violence and he had that in his DNA. That didn't make him evil... but capable of evil. I was on a murder trial once and was taken off the jury because the kid on trial came from a school where my wife taught, I was excused because I said that the teachers felt that he was capable of killing another kid. I don't think everyone IS capable of that. Jake was capable of all the things that he did during the horrific closing of the book, and that's wasn't just alcohol talking.
One brother died in Vietnam. I forget what happened to the other one. I’d have to go back and check the book. There was a sister but he never mentions what happens to her.
I agree with Nick about the capacity for evil. Some have it and some do not. That doesn't make them intrinsically evil, it simply means they are more likely to be capable.One of my biggest pet peeves is hearing people say "bad boy (or girl)" to a child. There are NO bad boys (or girls) simply children who do bad things.
Ben wrote: "Nick wrote: "I may have started some of this "Jack is evil" stuff, but that's not what I meant, I suggested tha..."It makes me wonder what ever became of Jack's brothers. Or, how they turned out...."
According to the book Jacks oldest brother was killed in Vietnam just before or after his father died I can't remember whether it was before or after.
I don't know I wonder what was better the beatings or being dropped from 7 foot in the air because the person playing elevator with you is drunk?
I think the elevator was just intended to be creepy because it’s the kind that needs someone to operate it and they are supposed to be alone.
I thought using the elevator that came to life was a brilliant idea since you need electricity to run it and gave credence to the hotel harvesting the energy from The shining that was exclusive to Danny and Dick H. Which was another example of driving Jack insane since he had zero shinning.
No I don't think they Had the Shine, they are just unwitting victims of the Overlook.Overlook is an apt name for the hotel. It has many meanings. One it overlook all, two it can overlook a problem or mistake such as jack made when he failed give Wendy and Danny there medicine. Three it looks over your shoulder to ensure you do what needs doing.
As far as these unwitting victims, they are the ones who were weak enough to get caught by the hotel just like Jack and Mr. Grady.
I am reading You and the MC works in a bookstore. Doctor Sleep comes out and he calls it Stephen King Day. The bookstore is packed with people and someone refers to The Shining as the prequel and wants to buy it before reading Doctor Sleep, 😂This book is creepy, btw.
Creepy, yes Sai King does creepy as well When was the last time you saw a writer put so many twists in his books and not loose track of them. Some say his weakness is his endings, can't argue with that some do lack strength and do loose a little of the direction he shows through out the book.
I meant the book You but yes King does creepy really well.I thought it was funny that the next book I read after The Shining has a whole section on King and Doctor Sleep etc.
Wow there is a book about me...
Nancy wrote: "I meant the book You but yes King does creepy really well.I thought it was funny that the next book I read after The Shining has a whole section on King and Doctor Sleep etc."
Nancy, I loved that book. The sequel, Hidden Bodies is a good one too.
ElleEm wrote: "Nancy wrote: "I meant the book You but yes King does creepy really well.I thought it was funny that the next book I read after The Shining has a whole section on King and Doctor Sleep etc."
Nanc..."
I have it!
I agree Steve. The hotel makes Jack see things that are not there. I would say similar to Grady... regardless if Jack was an alcoholic there’s no alcohol there except in Jacks imagination. As far as Grady there was no evidence that he was an alcoholic but that doesn’t matter since there is no apparent alcohol there other than the allusion..
mrbooks wrote: "Creepy, yes Sai King does creepy as well When was the last time you saw a writer put so many twists in his books and not loose track of them. Some say his weakness is his endings, can't argue with ..."Yup. Stephen King must have really had a great time writing this novel at that Hotel. He has given us so many ways to interpret who has or doesn't have The Shining.
But I still think he does have a bit of The Shining. Especially after reading Dr. Sleep.
Kenneth wrote: "I agree Steve. The hotel makes Jack see things that are not there. I would say similar to Grady... regardless if Jack was an alcoholic there’s no alcohol there except in Jacks imagination. As far a..."Actually in the Interview that Jack went through he was told that Grady was an alcoholic and had snuck some booze in. But in either case it doesn't matter much as we have seen, the hotel can simulate anything. The hotel gathers strength from those that stay there, they my not shine but they still feed the hotel, the worse the person the stronger they were because they were in sync with the hotel.
Well, I was finally able to get the audio of this book from the library so I am consistently staying a month behind you all on these group reads. I have the book but really want to revisit these through audio. I have been following this discussion so I probably won't comment much on this thread unless I have a question or a thought that hasn't been discussed yet.
Another thought struck me.I've heard it mentioned here and other places that this Hotel was (or may have been) built on an ancient (Indian?) burial ground (or other), but why aren't the ancient ghosts showing themselves?
If my family is snowed-in at this Hotel during the winter with no means of escape, then why would these ancient ghosts show me people who I don't know that died 50 years ago?
Wouldn't these ancient ghost have nothing to lose by showing themselves rather than scare me with the previous people who died there?
It's not like I'm gonna recognize a ghost and scream: "Oh my God, that's Mr/Mrs So-and-So who died in 1805!!!"
I think that was the movie. The book didn’t say anything about the hotel being built on any ancient burial grounds.
Nope, no mention of burial grounds in the book. I think many readers/watchers need a why so insert that sort of circumstance, but sometimes a thing happens simply because it does. Suspending disbelief means suspending for the origin of the tale as well.
If you can't think of any other way to explain supernatural evil, pin it on some old souls whose burial ground has been disturbed. After the movie Poltergeist that got to be a major cliche.
Nancy wrote: "I think that was the movie. The book didn’t say anything about the hotel being built on any ancient burial grounds."Yeah. Lol. I just finished watching the movie this morning and heard Stuart Ullman jokingly mention it.
So how would you rank the three books we've read so far? Carrie, Salem's Lot, The Shining?My ranking:
1. Salem's Lot
2. The Shining
3. Carrie
I'm torn between Salem's Lot and The Shining. The Shining has better character development and climax, but I like the characters in Salem's Lot better and it has more scary scenes for me. And Mark Petrie is still my favorite character out of the three books.
Femmy wrote: "So how would you rank the three books we've read so far? Carrie, Salem's Lot, The Shining?My ranking:
1. Salem's Lot
2. The Shining
3. Carrie
I'm torn between Salem's Lot and The Shining. The Sh..."
That's exactly how I would rate them as well!
Boy make it hard on me I love them all the same while I am reading them. But for me it has to in this order.1 Carrie
2. Salem's Lot
3. The Shining
I put Carrie first, it is the book that hooked me on King and also the first book published. I know doesn't make any sense.
Stephen King Fans
Books mentioned in this topic
Burnt Offerings (other topics)Hidden Bodies (other topics)
You (other topics)
There are truely evil people in the world. From serial killers to parents that chain their kids to their beds and feed them barely enough to survive. I don’t think Watson was evil just bitter.