The Diary of a Young Girl
discussion
Anyone else hate this Diary
Maria wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "Maria wrote: "So, this thread, about this great book has come to...nitpicking at each other?"I've actually been wondering if Amamika's research topic might be a Psych Ops kind o..." agreed again
Tytti wrote: "Belle wrote: "Anamika wrote: "Belle wrote: "Mae wrote: "Belle wrote: "bye." now now, that was not very nice…"..."
I don't see why you can't do that."
and then they say americans get offended ea..."
yeah, keep telling yourself that.
Elizabeth wrote: "I also hope that everyone who has been involved in this can make peace."I don't really think I care enough "to make peace" about this...
I guess Joodith isn't on here to hear this, but: I'm really sorry if I offended anyone! Joodith, I understand what you're saying, and you're probably right about that (even though I still don't get how rudeness pertains to it). Ttyi (sorry if I spelled your name wrong!) I don't know if you meant this as an actual question or not, but I think you have every right to disagree with me if you want to. Maybe I was wrong, which I actually said on my comment. So forgive me, that was just the way I saw things.
hey Maya
Maya wrote: "I guess Joodith isn't on here to hear this, but: I'm really sorry if I offended anyone! Joodith, I understand what you're saying, and you're probably right about that (even though I still don't get..." Joodith's point WAS about the nuances of the english language. Someone called her rude, when she had been sarcastic. In the UK, humor is different, words have ever so slight differences--this being referred to as the "nuances" of a language. Language and culture go hand in hand. This is what Joodith was trying to explain. It was very cool of you to apologize. ( I hope this thread gives Anamika what she wants).
Maya wrote: "even though I still don't get how rudeness pertains to it"It seems many Americans very easily call other people "rude" when they are just having a discussion about things. And it does give an impression that Americans are too sensitive.
Mae wrote: " In the UK, humor is different, words have ever so slight differences--this being referred to as the "nuances" of a language. Language and culture go hand in hand."I think it's more of a European thing, not just UK.
Really just because i said that judith was being rude you're gonna base your opinion of an entire culture on one comment?
Belle wrote: "Really just because i said that judith was being rude you're gonna base your opinion of an entire culture on one comment?"So you think you are the first American I have noticed calling people "rude" over minor things? No, you are not.
Tytti wrote: "Mae wrote: " In the UK, humor is different, words have ever so slight differences--this being referred to as the "nuances" of a language. Language and culture go hand in hand."I think it's more o..." Oh totally agree with you, said UK because Joodith is from the UK.
Anamika you are entitled to your opinion but when posting on a site such as this, I guess you don't understand the concept. First, you post with the expectation that some people are going to differ with you. Telling those who disagree with you not to post is a bit childish and silly. Moreover, it is common to site the reasons you dislike a book. Otherwise, you just come off like a spoiled little 10 year old.
hate is to strong a word. dislike is better. you can't hate pieces of paper with ink on it. maybe you found it boring or uninteresting, but you can't hate it just because. why do you hate it. why is it something you knew you would dislike (see, not hate). personally, it wasn't my cup of tea, but i don't hate it. i actually thought it was good at some parts. autobiographies just aren't my thing, but i don't hate it. i would still recommend it to others to read. people need to try and understand how horrible that time period was.
Elizabeth wrote: "If you don't explain why you didn't like the book, then people will just think you're trolling for attention. It's fine to not like books, but simply putting it out there that you don't like it and..." i also agree with Elizabeth. this is a pointless thread.
Come on now, group hug everyone.........X
Anamika wrote: "Michielle wrote:"Anamika, if you want to delete this post, There should be an "(edit)" at the end of the title of the thread. Click on "(edit)" look after the "save" button and click "delete this t..."I have started threads and went back to one. The instructions that I listed are the options on the thread if I wanted to delete it. If you want to delete this thread, then will it hurt to try? Did you even see if the "(edit)" was at the end of the title?
I'm new to this site but this thread caught my eye this afternoon and I've taken the time to trawl right through it.Some of you have suggested that Anamika (I'd better made sure I spell it properly) is doing some sort of Psychological study - I honestly don't think she's clever enough for that. Have any of you read her reading list? Have any of you read any of her writing? Strange thing is the few reviews she's written are not at all in the same tone as her posts on this thread. Strange - it's almost as if someone else is writing her reviews, or they're copied from elsewhere.
Some of you have suggested that peace is made or we have a group hug (yuck) - the nature of forums is that they bring out the beast in most of us - the anonymity of the internet and all that - we can say things we wouldn't say (at least I hope we wouldn't) say in a face to face situation.
Poor Joodith - she got a ragging from Belle when all she was trying to do was explain the nuances (differences) in the way language is used.....she was actually trying to defend Anamika for all the thanks she got. I am English, I live in the UK, although I have lived abroad.....which really does broaden the mind....and there ARE differences in the way English language is used in different countries. I would like to know how Belle can say, with such conviction, that Joodith is wrong! All you need to do is read books from both sides of the Atlantic and you'll see the differences.
Finally I think it would be a mistake to delete this thread....this is what forums are all about: debate, discussion, emotion and passion. What people do need to learn, though, is that bullying is not nice, and one or two of you have been guilty of that. Remember there is no tone of voice when you write, instead of speak, so many things are misinterpreted....10% of conflicts are due to differences of opinion; 90% is due to the wrong tone of voice.
Anamika: in the future, when one posts a discussion such as this, asking for a justification of an opinion, it makes it so much easier to state why. It goes along with trying to see the whole picture. You probably wouldn't have gotten so many people upset if you had said why. I know I know, you said you would give your reasons soon/in two weeks time. It's quite difficult for one to agree with you or even find something in common with your argument if you never explain it. Just for future reference. :)
I did not enjoy it. I found it boring and didn't think it was as amazing as everyone was saying. Not terrible, just not something I would rave about.It was her diary though. I'm sure if people broke into my diary they would be bored to tears half the time.
Trixie wrote: "I'm new to this site but this thread caught my eye this afternoon and I've taken the time to trawl right through it.Some of you have suggested that Anamika (I'd better made sure I spell it proper..."
thank you, ( and I am not being sarcastic) i believe this discussion has been fascinating, and that is what this forums are for. Conversations fluctuate and deviate… that is what it is all about.
I guess Trixie didn't get the sarcasm in the group hug comment.
Linda, what makes you think I didn't get it? Because I said yuck? Oh yes, I got it and was actually going to say...."yuck, how very American" but refrained because I didn't want to cause unnecessary offence. See what I mean about lack of tone of voice? Sometimes the meaning just doesn't come across in the written word....I, too, find this discussion interesting - the passions it has raised, the heated debate, the bullying, the patronising, - it's all there - brilliant.
what do you mean by "patronising"?
I guess my use of the word "patronising" was wrong - I've just re-read all the posts....so yep, I was wrong. Something I missed yesterday was this from Jonnathan:
Jonnathan wrote: "I hate it as well. Boring book."
No-one challenged him to explain why he hated the diary, but maybe his follow up of "Boring book" was enough to keep the wolves from snarling at his heels.
Anamika - once again I'm trying understand your comment - particularly the last bit.
Trixie, my question was to Anamika… I thought 'pratonising' worked in your context.
Hi Mae - I thought it might have been directed at Anamika, but it made me have a re-think anyway...and whilst there are certain things I find a bit icky, such a group hugs (sarcastic or not) and telling people not to snipe and to make peace....not my thing at all (despite my photo), I thought patronising was perhaps a bit off the mark.Anamika's comments continue to puzzle....I think she was parroting me when I used the "p" word - lol.
Trixie wrote: "Hi Mae - I thought it might have been directed at Anamika, but it made me have a re-think anyway...and whilst there are certain things I find a bit icky, such a group hugs (sarcastic or not) and te..."She did. Cannot figure her out. Waiting for the famous reasons. But I have been quite entertained by the whole thing.
Trixie wrote: "No-one challenged him to explain why he hated the diary, but maybe his follow up of "Boring book" was enough to keep the wolves from snarling at his heels."And at least he had read it before hating, it seems. I can't remember if I found the writing boring, it is such a long time ago when I read the book and I had already seen the movie, but knowing it's real and what happened later, I think calling it boring is a bit stupid. But people are...
And I agree with Mae, I think this discussion has been strangely entertaining.
Tytti wrote: "And I agree with Mae, I think this discussion has been strangely entertaining"In a train-wreck kinda a style? That´s how i perceive it.
I am not about to waste any more fingertips explaining the obvious to someone who is enjoying so much all the hububb, but i simply check it to see if the explanation is here, already....kinda curious about it.
Maria wrote: "kinda curious about it."I am not even that curious, because I don't care that much, I just like to engage in debates sometimes. :-)
Tytti wrote: "Maria wrote: "kinda curious about it."I am not even that curious, because I don't care that much, I just like to engage in debates sometimes. :-)"
Yep debating is good, but when donne with people who are high-spirited enough to agree to disagree, when they stand on opposite sides of the questionand none of them is about to budge.
I think we are all still around this one for more or less the same reasons, THAT we can agree on!! Debate, curiosity, some very strange reactions and comments. But in my case their is one more reason-- This Diary has been one of the most influential books in my life. I was 10 years old when I read it for the first time, had just moved back to PR after 4 years in Germany. Where, at the time calling someone a jew could send you to prison. This diary, written by someone my age, opened my eyes to a very cruel world, where good, hope and change ( the Germany I new with all my friends and teachers) all live together along evil and cruelty (Hitlers Germany). I was never the same again. And I find it so incredibly hard, that some are unable to feel moved by the writings of a young girl hiding in an attic for her life.
I too, admit to a curiosity about this thread, in a rubber-necking sort of way. So here's the thing.....I was about Anne's age when I read this and I had no idea about my family history; one day, as a curious 13-year old I was talking to my mother about this incredible book and that was when she told me that my father is Jewish. Hi grandparents had fled the pogroms and settled in the UK. He had endured the most dreadful childhood, here in the UK, back in the 1920's. He was made to stand in the corner of the classroom with a dunce's cap on his head. Why? Because he was the only Jewish boy in class! There were many instances of bullying and racism, and finally, as an extremely intelligent teenager when he began to question religion and all that it stood for, he renounced the Jewish faith whihc did not go down well with his family. Unfortunately that did not make any less Jewish, and so he has carried the - I don't know what you'd call it - a stigma, a "difference" - all his life. He married a Shiksa (my mum), so of course was vilified again by his family. He is now an old man in his mid-90's, still with my mum, and the past is just a dim memory. He has never discussed his family history with me or any of my siblings.
I cannot say the Anne's diary has influenced my life, but it certainly had an impact at the time, and I remember developing a new understanding for my father. I think this is why I find Anamika's bald declaration of hating the diary so utterly stupid.
So, there you go - my reasons for following this thread
trixie… I hear you loud and clear, we are in similar boats.
I can't say I hate it, but I have never been a fan of it. I feel for her and her family. I think for me it is that autobiographies, biographies, books written in journal or letter formats are not my favorite things.
Interesting story, Trixie. I remember reading from a memoir of some Finnish diplomat stationed in Washington during WWII, how locals wondered and questioned his "decision" to shop in a store owned by a Jew. He didn't think anything of it and bought some fabric for his wife. What made the situation peculiar, was that at the same time there were German troops in Finland. And because of one of those strange twists of fate, Finnish Jews served brothers-in-arms with them, some women as volunteers, and three were even awarded the German Iron Cross (which they refused, of course). They even had a field synagogue, quite close to the German troops, and permissions from their senior officers to visit during the Jewish holidays, if possible.
While reading the diary I also had already heard my father's stories about seeing Soviet planes over his home as a kid, on their way to bomb a small town nearby. He might have not known then but I already did about the threat they were facing at the time (only it was Stalin's mass executions and deportations instead of Hitler's). So I wasn't that shocked about the movie/book.
Anamika wrote: "I literally hate this diary.I hated it even before I read it.But I thought I was being paranoid and read it,yet no change.Anyone else having the same problem?In addition to that,I'm also trying to ..."So, why do you hate it? Are you a Muslim? Do you hate all Jews? If so why?
I reckon she's skulking in her room, reading what we've all written, trying to concoct a reason she thinks will be acceptable. Either that, or she'll just fade away and not provide a reason at all.
Anamika wrote: "Monty J wrote: "Anamika wrote: "I literally hate this diary.I hated it even before I read it.But I thought I was being paranoid and read it,yet no change.Anyone else having the same problem?In addi..."okkaayy
Yaaawwn - SO bored with this....see the problem is Anamika, by spinning this out, you're not holding peoples' interest, you're actually turning them away...it's like poking something dead with a stick. When there's no movement, you move on.You either have something interesting to say, in which case just say it - or keep quiet and go away.
Um... @ trixie, it's her thread so if you don't like something or are bored you are the one that should leave.Although Anamika, you should seriously just say why. You keep putting it off and I doubt it's that big of a deal and I can totally see why people are getting bored.
Um...@Belle - yeah, I know it's Anamika's thread, and you are both absolutely right - I should be the one to leave if I'm as bored as I say. I suppose I'm trying to shake something....anything...interesting out of her....aaargh, it's not working! I don't for one second believe that anything Great will come out of her Great Reveal - it's like waiting for a magician to pull a rabbit out of a hat only to find the rabbit has run off. I suppose the rubberneck curiosity keeps me here - just as it it does you; you can see it's not exactly an interesting or intellectual debate.
Oh - and Belle - my name has a capital T at the beginning.....it has such an impact on me when people miss that ;)
Trixie wrote: "Um...@Belle - yeah, I know it's Anamika's thread, and you are both absolutely right - I should be the one to leave if I'm as bored as I say. I suppose I'm trying to shake something....anything...in..."lol. sorry my bad. ;) and yes, i totally agree with you. its the same with me, im just curious. i know i came off kinda strong and defensive. sorry bout' that. its just it really annoys me when people state their opinion like jerks. and then as if once wasn't enough they do it again and again. i just didn't see a point to what a lot of people were doing on here. XD
Yes, Belle, it is irritating when people state their opinions like jerks - to quote you - but not everyone has the linguistic skills you so obviously possess. Sometimes, when they think they're being shouted down, people feel the need to repeat themselves in order to be heard.I see you gave Joodith a bit of a ragging for pointing out the subtle difference in the way we Brits and Americans use the English language; that was out of order and unnecessary, as she was stating fact...and it's a not a point of debate. For what it's worth, having read right through this thread before commenting, I came to the same conclusions as she did.
Anamika wrote: "It's because of some other reason which does not concern her race,religion or anything else."Anamika, can you understand why many of us are perplexed by your post? Essentially you have attacked an important and beloved work of literature without explaining why. We don't know if you're teasing us to get attention or if you have some valid reason behind your avowed "hatred."
The burden is upon you to clarify your position, not upon us to engage in guessing games.
Folks, Trixie,there's no Great Reveal coming here...check out Anamika's profile and you'll see she's just a twit looking for attention. She doesn't have two thoughts in her pointed little head to put together. There's no magician and no rabbit, just a kid with an immature sense of humor. And Belle, don't defend her again. I'm not sure which is more annoying, her starting the thread up or you chiming in every now and then trying to defend her for whatever odd reason you have.I'm just rubbernecking myself.
Happy Bloomsday, all!
Petergiaquinta wrote: "Folks, Trixie,there's no Great Reveal coming here...check out Anamika's profile and you'll see she's just a twit looking for attention. She doesn't have two thoughts in her pointed little head to p..."Which is what I said - like a magician pulling a rabbit out of a hat only to find the RABBIT HAS RUN OFF. Anamika started this thread with an outrageous comment and doesn't now how to put an end to it - there is no Great Reveal, and I doubt she's clever enough to even think of one.
And before anyone suggest this is bullying, it is not - it is just an observation! This is what forums are all about - someone starts a thread and opens a debate; sometimes they become passionate and heated, sometimes they die like a damp squib. I've stuck around, even though it's often as interesting as watching paint dry, for reasons explained earlier.
Anamika wrote: "Actually there is a Great Reveal coming out.A few people were annoyed when I didn't tell the reason or used the word 'hate'. Well right now I'm annoyed that a someone is trying to deprive another p..."I think I might be coming a bit strong here, especially since I haven't posted before now, but I see no reason why you should be "annoyed that a someone is trying to deprive another person from defending."... It is my personal opinion that if you choose to do things a certain way, you must be ready to face the consequences. And from the moment you decided to start this discussion, phrasing it as you did, you must have been aware of how people would react. And if you weren't, some of the first comments were quite clear!
Saying you hate a book will always stir up discussion. If you give your reasons, that discussion can be productive. For example: I HATE most of Moby-Dick. I hate most of Moby-Dick BECAUSE the first few chapters got me hooked and then I felt like I had to drag myself through lots of boring, pointless chapters to get to an ending that, to me, wasn't satisfying. I know that we aren't discussing Moby-Dick, I'm just using this to illustrate the power of presenting your reasons for hating something, to say that opinions (however controversial) are valid and must be respected. However, if the point is to discuss them, they must be explained.
Sure, you are busy until July, much too busy to present your motives! I'm sorry to say, but the logical thing to me in that situation would have been to wait until July and begin a proper discussion then. Another alternative would be to, instead of showing up here occasionally to announce or insist that the great reveal is nigh and that you are serious and not at all immature, just write your reasons in instalments. Open a document, jot down a few lines, save it and resume the next day until it's done. You would spend the same amount of time on it as you spend on this discussion and we would get our answer sooner.
I'll just address two more points before I'm done, regarding your original post. Firstly, the idea of hating a book before you read it is just feels so wrong to me. Books are gateways to different worlds and you can't just open them with preconceived notions as strong as hate, because that, I think, lessens your chances to learn from that book. And in the case of this specific book there is so much to learn!
Lastly, I think it's only right that I answer your original question: I don't hate this diary. I don't hate this diary BECAUSE it makes me think of the horrible things humanity has done and been through and, at the same time, of human being's persistence and will to live in conditions that most of all consider hard to bear. Sure, it's not the most exciting book I ever read, and it doesn't leave me on the edge of my seat, but it still possesses a bittersweet kind of beauty that makes me glad that I have read it and that makes me reread it every once in a while.
Nicely done, koans, though I think we have all given her more time and credit thanAnamika deserves.
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I've actually been wondering if Amamika's research topic might be a Psych Ops kind of topic... kind of..."I agree…