The Diary of a Young Girl
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Anyone else hate this Diary
message 401:
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Olivia
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Jun 24, 2014 08:09AM
Okay. I meant that Wikipedia is NOT reliable. Urban Dictionary is even less. But don't think that that definition means that fangirls cannot be an intellectual yet emotional group.
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Fan - "A person who has a strong interest in or admiration for a particular sport, art form, or famous person" (Oxford dictionary)Origin - "late 19th century (originally US): abbreviation of fanatic."
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/...
I avoid fanboys and fangirls when their fandom comes into play. I can never get past the idea that they are fanatics.
Okay, first: I totally agree with Tytti about books not being good simply because of romance. I honestly despise those kind of books. Perhaps that's one of the reasons that I didn't like tfios. And yeah, if you feel like that Tytti, you should NOT read it. I kind of regret having done so. Second: Mae, I totally get what you mean about reading lots of books at a young age. Actually, I was made fun of by a lot of my peers recently for having read approximately 300 books in the past school year. I don't know what's up with people, honestly. It's not like anyone can control their reading speed! :( however, I think it's a good thing for people to read difficult or classic books early on in life, because it provides them with the opportunity when they almost certainly read the book in high school/college and beyond to achieve a greater depth of understanding. Also, tearjerker scan be a really good thing. I cried at the book thief, the epilogue of Harry potter, the end if the diary, and honestly at the end of a lot of sad books. I'm a bit of a crier. However, I don't tend to cry when I'm actually reading so-called 'tear-jerkers'. I guess that kind of sad ending (one based off of a failed romance/dead sweetheart) just doesn't cut it for me. That doesn't mean I hate the genre. It just means I have to try harder to find a good book in it. And some people, fan girls in particular, love tear jerkers or hunger games or whatever, but I'm not one of them. I probably haven't said 'feels' or whatever term people use before in my life, but that doesn't mean that I don't respect others opinions just because they do.
Mae wrote: "Interesting response Titty… "I hate tearjerkers". Maybe we have to start a whole knew thread. Why do we "hate" books, any book."Maybe because I have had enough sadness in my life not to need any fictional accounts of people dying. And maybe I have read enough non-fiction to know what has happened in the world that reading about them in a fictional form doesn't really interest me. I do sometimes get emotional when reading about real people but The Book Thief (for example) isn't about them. I felt sad for the families when I read how soldiers were killed by the friendly fire, I was scared to read about an enemy officer known for being a ruthless torturer. But having read about that since I was about 10 years old, I have develeped a thick skin.
For many, even adults, Between Shades of Gray seems to have been emotional because they had never heard of Soviet deportations. I had heard about them being mentioned here and there ever since I understood anything about the world and history, it wasn't a forbidden subject like some claim. I do worry about reading the Purge, having seen the movie I know it will not be an easy book because of the violence. But it also has other layers that make it interesting and that is why I might read it someday.
Margot wrote: "Okay, first: I totally agree with Tytti about books not being good simply because of romance. I honestly despise those kind of books. Perhaps that's one of the reasons that I didn't like tfios. And..."Okay so you get it. Its about respect. But for respect we need explanations… which is why we are all still here. I am not particularly attracted to what we call in spanish (folletines) or romantic tear jerkers, but I can't say I hate them either. It all depends on many things
Tytti wrote: "Mae wrote: "Interesting response Titty… "I hate tearjerkers". Maybe we have to start a whole knew thread. Why do we "hate" books, any book."Maybe because I have had enough sadness in my life not ..." I have to say that your tone, in this post in different. And I can feel and understand what you mean. I am not a fan of mindless fiction, but because life is so hard, I have developed a taste for good fiction. The kind that leads you into other lives and other worlds. Not speaking of of science fiction here. I love beautiful prose, well developed plots, and complicated characters. They allow me to take my mind of the real life with all its real twists and turns. I survived the death of my 29 year brother reading Isabel Allende's Paula, and three other of her books. Paula is not fiction but the others were… I read all kinds of gender, and I love history books… There is always a way to go through our thick skins, good prose will do that. There we agree.
This thread has been an ironic lesson in "don't judge a book by its cover".
I personally love and cry endlessly over holocaust stories, perhaps because many members ofmy family were murdered by the nazis for being Jewish. I understand what Tytti means about having seen a lot of pain, but at the same time, I want to connect with my family, and since I can't do that in person, I do it with holocaust stories. Like Tytti, I have been reading about the holocaust since I was really small, like nine or ten. I too prefer true stories, like the diary, but anything in that genre is fine, really, because at least parts of the book were true about someone.
Leslie wrote: "This thread has been an ironic lesson in "don't judge a book by its cover"."yep
I don't hate it, or her. but I think it's been over-hyped. And the notion that people are good at heart is bosh. Sometimes they are, and sometimes they are not. We live in a fallen world, not some goo-goo garden.I also believe the Holocaust has been abused for political and ethnic purposes, some of them nefarious. Like Jesse Jackson, I am tired of hearing about it, even though it was horrible.
Margot wrote: "that doesn't mean that I don't respect others opinions"I don't really care whether people respect my opinion. It's mine, and if it's not hurting anyone, you'll just have to deal with it. I also don't have to respect anyone's opinion when it comes to my own decisions about the books I might read because most people's opinions don't really matter to me, unless they have good explanations. "Respecting an opinion" is an empty clause because it really shouldn't matter to anyone what I think about their choice in books (unless there are factual mistakes in them). Either they listen to my thoughts or not, it's their choice, and I have no say in the matter.
Finns were just a couple of weeks ago accused by some Putin's lackey of being russophobic and starting WW3. Do you really think we respected his opinion? No. Finland/Finns have learned to be stubborn, in our history we have dealt with both Stalin and Hitler, before that the Russian Tsar. Churchill tried to influence Mannerheim's decisions, as did Hitler, and both failed. So I guess you might say it's in our national psyche already. So just because you have an opinion, it doesn't mean that it has to matter to me/us. (If someone wants a better explanation, I suggest reading The Unknown Soldier.)
David wrote: "I don't hate it, or her. but I think it's been over-hyped. And the notion that people are good at heart is bosh. Sometimes they are, and sometimes they are not. We live in a fallen world, not some ..."Overhyped…??? it is not meant to be a piece of literature or propaganda. It is the recollections of a family in hiding, fighting to stay alive, during one of the ugliest moments of the 20th century. And I say "one of" because there have been a couple others, amongst them, Rwanda, 60 million of Russians killed by Stalin, the desaparicidos in Argentina, the Palestinian wall, the genocide of the Tupamaros in Uruguay. And never forget that the people who forget history tend to repeat it. I respect your opinion, and still I find callous, considering how many people in this thread have lost family members in the holocaust.
Margot wrote: "Like Tytti, I have been reading about the holocaust since I was really small, like nine or ten."I haven't actually been reading holocaust stories, they don't really interest me. I have an understanding about what happened and that is enough for me. The usual Western POW portrays the Red Army and Stalin as some kind of heroes and that disgusts me. I am interested to know what happened to my ethnic "groups" in the Soviet Union because they have been mainly forgotten and their fate is still unknown.
Mae wrote: "And I say "one of" because there have been a couple others, amongst them, Rwanda, 60 million of Russians killed by Stalin, the desaparicidos in Argentina, the Palestinian wall, the genocide of the Tupamaros in Uruguay. And never forget that the people who forget history tend to repeat it."I do find it interesting (provided that I am not mistaken) that the Rwanda massacre happened a couple of months after Schindler's List won all those Oscars at the gala. How many "never again" speeches we heard at the time? How long did that last? What about all those people in the Baltic countries and Roosevelt and Churchill gave Stalin the free hands to do to them whatever he wanted? They even helped him to cover the Katyn massacre. So yes, I am a bit sceptical about what can be achieved by "remembering". When it comes to power politics, it usually doesn't matter.
P.S. David's last name seems to be Epstein and I believe that is a Jewish name...
Stalin was not a hero. I am disgusted by the very thought. He was a world leader who killed between 3 and 60 million people, depending on what source you read. He entered into what was basically an alliance with Nazi Germany. That's unforgivable, in my opinion. And maybe there were reasons that he did so, but there were so many countries who didn't that I can't believe that they were particularly good reasons. Oh, and I really want to see schindler's list, but my parents don't think it would be appropriate for a 13 year old who is interested in learning about the holocaust. Ha. I wish I could, though. I think that for a lot of people, the very act of remembering is making them think 'never again'. Have you been to the holocaust museum? It is so moving. I was crying before I even entered the building, just because of the banners they had outside. Obviously, there are some people who this will never matter to, but they are the rare few. Unfortunately, a lot of times people who are that ruthless find themselves in positions of power.
It feels creepy to me when someone's personal profile information, or bookshelf information, is broadcast into a thread... I know one can go and look at it if they are curious, but when it is "used" in the thread it feels creepy-stalker-bully-like.
Titty what happened in Rwanda, happened in 100 days, and most of the murderers were people who never went to school or where even close to a movie theater. They could not forget what they never knew. A lot of people actually don't know about the holocaust. In Africa, South American and China, millions… don't know about it. Few people know about the tupamaros, and the average american does not know about Rwanda, Chile or Argentina. And maybe in Europe, Stalin was a hero, but Stalin was never a hero in the USA-- for different reasons, but never a hero. Russia only became involved in WWII as an ally to stop the Germans from getting into Russia, he was never interested in saving the Jews. He was killing Jews in Russia before, during and after… He had Trotsky murdered and erased from Russian history. (My college roommates family, escaped during that time from Russia, through Finland) And I don't think that Roosevelt and Churchill had much of choice in those days. There was no tradition of invading a country to save them from their leaders, that is a recent phenomena. US involvement in WWII came about after they were hit at Pearl Harbor.
It is a sad fact there will NEVER be peace in this world because there are people - usually men - who thrive on aggression and confrontation. There are people - usually men - who want what the other guy has, there are people who believe their race is the better race, that their faith is the only faith, who always have to try to prove the point through violence. And no, I'm not being sexist - the facts speak for themselves.Looking back over centuries of bloodshed makes no difference; we will never, ever learn to live in peace - the human species is aggressive, possessive and often cruel, and if all this sounds Doom and Gloom, too bad, because that's the way humans are wired.
It is right that we should remember the millions of people worldwide, whether they were victims of the holocaust, the Rwanda genocides, the Vietnam war, Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, Idi Amin in Uganda, Stalin, Hussein - where the hell does it end? Never. My point is that if we were going to learn from history, we would have learned by now - and sadly, we haven't.
You're right, Trixie. I guess we'll never learn.
Mae wrote: "Titty what happened in Rwanda, happened in less that a month, and most of the murderers were people who never went to school or where even close to a movie theater."Yes but the international community did know and still did nothing. I believe that General Roméo Dallaire asked for help but the UN did nothing.
"maybe in Europe, Stalin was a hero, but Stalin was never a hero in the USA"
Stalin was never a hero in Eastern Europe but he and the Red Army are still "heroes" in every WWII celebration, just like Germany is the quilty one. In my eyes they are the same.
Margot wrote: "He entered into what was basically an alliance with Nazi Germany. That's unforgivable, in my opinion. And maybe there were reasons that he did so, but there were so many countries who didn't that I can't believe that they were particularly good reasons."Why is that unforgivable? Two murdering dictators co-operating together. It was a shock to Finland because that meant Hitler didn't allow the help from Italy to cross Germany but other than that...
I think it's more unforgivable is that USA and UK were later helping Stalin, after all it was well known what he had been doing already in the 1930s.
What a great thread this has become! I have learned so much by reading your posts, here.Anamika: like someone said earlier, people tend to derive whenever they have to wait for your explanations - it´s called "human nature". It´s all fair game and no one is feeling disturbed by it, or either, no one would show up to comment.
As for fangirls, i have never heard the therm before and learned it just now. Have to say that the fan-base for a book doesn´t bother me one bit - it only matters if i will like it or not - dpoesn´t influence my choice of reading the book or not. Same for reading habits: some years ago i would only pic up historical fiction and non-fiction; and it grew a bit tiring.Now, i can diversify and read almost anything but a tearjerker, or the one´s i think will be that way - Nicholas Sparks, Jill Mansell, Nora Roberts, that kind. But, if i´m the mood one day, i will not shy away from trying them and who knows? maybe i´ll like it.
As for Stalin being a hero - not in Europe i guess, or at least to the one´s who were a bit more attentive on World History classes. He was not hero, by any long shot - he was a psycopath that persecuted his own family members.
Mae - you are living in a beautifull country, without a doubt. I would love to visit it, sometime. But then again, i would love the see the Pyramids, Viena, Finland, Rotherdam...all before i kick the bucket!
Maria wrote: "As for Stalin being a hero - not in Europe i guess"I think it comes from the notion that WWII was a "good war" and the good guys won, and also from seeing the pictures from the Yalta Conference. Also it seems that Stalin's Purges are not even taught in many countries, even though at the same time the Holocaust is an important subject. Maybe it's not that clear but it's easy to notice when your country was on the other side. Some (mainly Americans again) have even accused our Jewish veterans for being fascists.
the fan-base for a book doesn´t bother me one bit - it only matters if i will like it or not - dpoesn´t influence my choice of reading the book or not
ETA: People are confusing "fan base" and reviews. I don't care who writes those reviews, I care if they are written with thought and intelligence. I like to see where they base their opinions and what they thought was good and what not. A lot of talk about their emotions doesn't interest me one bit because all it says is that they are emotional and often that they like to cry, which really isn't interesting.
Tytti wrote: "Maria wrote: "As for Stalin being a hero - not in Europe i guess"I think it comes from the notion that WWII was a "good war" and the good guys won, and also from seeing the pictures from the Yalt..."
Only the Good Bits of history are taught in schools. When I was a child I was taught about The Crusades - all these brave, gallant knights who followed Richard the Lionheart into some uncivilised far off country to valiantly vanquish The Foe......what a load of utter tosh! These were bloodthirsty men, hell-bent on killing anyone who got in their way. Same old same old.
Most of the history taught the world over is Good Propaganda that shows their own country in a good light and makes out the other side as demons or worse.
Trixie wrote: "When I was a child I was taught about The Crusades - all these brave, gallant knights who followed Richard the Lionheart into some uncivilised far off country to valiantly vanquish The Foe......what a load of utter tosh! These were bloodthirsty men, hell-bent on killing anyone who got in their way. Same old same old..."Yes, unfortunatly it is like that - the history that schools teach their students are often a fraction of waht really happened. I happened to have a very good history teacher who went beyond what was on the manual and "fedd" us with that much amlount of information. But i also see as many docs as i can about History because, as the saying goes "if you forget the past, then you will have no future".
Another example from that is the story of the Tordesillas Treaty in which Portugal and Spain divided the "knowned world", so that they were not always stepping on each others toes; so, the Portuguese king made an alteration of the line in which, only after that, he agreed to sign the treaty - and because of what? I found years and years on. He made the point that the line was drawned right in to the midle of the ocean...or not, because he actualy knew that there was land there - Brasil. And that there were secret missions exploring that territory for years, prior the the official discovery of Brasil. Same happened with the discovery of America by Columbus in 1492 - he had been there already in 2 or 3 prior expeditions.
So, you see , there is History and secret History in all countries, i guess, All this to say that it is probable that, in some countries Stalin is a hero. And Catherine the great like horses...a lot!
Maria wrote: "All this to say that it is probable that, in some countries Stalin is a hero. And Catherine the great like horses...a lot!"I think in only one, at least among those countries that have more information about his reign. They are changing the name of Volgograd back to Stalingrad...
And I believe the horse thing was because Catherine was originally German and not very popular among some people.
*peeks in* I've been watching this thread for a week or so and just wanted to say I'm amazed at the interesting discussions that have happened over nearly 500 comments in what is probably a) A troll thread
or
b) A social experiment.
I wonder if Anamika will ever tell us which it is ... there are only a few days left until it's July, which, for some reason, is the month when she's willing and able to tell us why she hates this diary...
... popcorn, anyone?
Maria - you quote the saying "If you forget the past, then you have no future" - fine, I agree to a certain extent. We should not forget the past, but we should LEARN from it, and that's what the human species is unable, or unwilling to do. If only half the money spent on ways of killing people was spent in medical care the world would be a better place - unfortunately Man's imagination knows no bounds and is constantly inventing new ways to kill hundreds of people at a time. Look what's happening in Iraq even as I write this! Then there's Syria....I hate to paint such a black picture, and I know I do sound all Doom and Gloom, but as I've got older, and learned more, I have become cynical. I make no apologies for being a Pacifist, and in the event of this country (the UK) going to war I would be a conscience objector - not on religious grounds (don't even get me started on religion and all the bloodshed) but on moral grounds.
Sara wrote: "*peeks in* I've been watching this thread for a week or so and just wanted to say I'm amazed at the interesting discussions that have happened over nearly 500 comments in what is probably a) A tro..."
We ate all the popcorn weeks ago! lol ;)
Tytti wrote: "Maria wrote: "All this to say that it is probable that, in some countries Stalin is a hero. And Catherine the great like horses...a lot!"I think in only one, at least among those countries that h..."
She was not, indeed - because she became more powerfull than the Tsar, her husband, that she managed to push aside. I will say that she was a sort of a russian Marie Antoinette - she was a foreigner, therefore people disliked her and made up these "compliments".
Trixie - the quote to me implies just that - learn from the mistakes in the past. Man will always be a dissatisfied creature, that will always covert/envie/lust over whatever the neighbour has. And centuries of wars, bloodshed have really taught most human kind nothing, unfortunatly. But i am an optimist an will say that my hope lies in children like my son, that with some good education and moral values, may trie to turn this around...
Popcorn? Hell yeah!
Trixie wrote: "Most of the history taught the world over is Good Propaganda that shows their own country in a good light and makes out the other side as demons or worse."That's why it's good to grow up in a small country. You learn from the very early on to notice different viewpoints and negotiate between them. After watching Western WWII movies I "learned" that the Nazis were bad. But then I heard that they actually helped and saved us and that the "Made in USA" stuff that our soldiers found was meant for our enemy. Then during the Cold War we were again on the wrong side because we weren't actively against the USSR. And again it was so easy to be judgemental when in fact no one knew anything about our situation.
Trixie - Haha, sorry I'm late to the party. *passes over some popcorn to Maria*
And thank you folks for giving me some additions to my WWII education, mine was... spotty, at best.
Trixie wrote: "in the event of this country (the UK) going to war I would be a conscience objector"Again, that's different for us. My father was an intelligence officer in reserve and we still have a conscript army. We did have some conscientious objectors during the last wars (in plural because there were three of them during WWII), I believe, but I think they served in other ways, caring for the wounded for example. In case of war we, again, would be defending our country against Russia, everyone knows that. And personally in that case I wouldn't understand conscientious objectors.
Tytti wrote: "Trixie wrote: "in the event of this country (the UK) going to war I would be a conscience objector"Again, that's different for us. My father was an intelligence officer in reserve and we still ha..."
Because killing is wrong Tytti. I know you're VERY patriotic, but killing anything is absolutely wrong. It achieves nothing.
Maria, despite my cynicism about the state of the world, I am actually an optimist in many things - but not in the way people treat people. We have learned NOTHING. We even have to have violent games to play in our living rooms to satisfy the aggression, which I suppose is better than doing it for real.
Yes, conscience objectors - here in the UK many were treated as criminals and sent to prison! Shameful.
Trixie wrote: "Because killing is wrong Tytti. I know you're VERY patriotic, but killing anything is absolutely wrong. It achieves nothing."Remember, you are talking to a Finn. Killing people did achieve a lot in our history and it prevented even more killings of innocent people. Killing tens and hundreds of thousands of Soviet soldiers convinced Stalin that occupying Finland would have been too difficult. That is why we were spared from the fate of the Baltic countries. I only have to look at Estonia to be grateful for all the deaths that they caused to the Red Army. It wasn't our choice but nobody asked our opinion.
Well, Tytti, if you choose to believe it is right to kill other people, nationality aside, that's your business. Your patriotism is obviously something you cherish. I am not in the least bit patriotic - my nationality happens to be English because I was born here, but it doesn't mean I would kill to protect my country. I think Patriotism can get in the way of things. I accept that my view is idealistic, and possibly simplistic, but that's the way I'm wired. I'm not aggressive or confrontational - but I enjoy debate and exchange of ideas, which can be done peacefully. Possibly the only situation where I would be prepared to kill would be to protect my daughter; hopefully that situation will never arise.
Trixie wrote: "Possibly the only situation where I would be prepared to kill would be to protect my daughter"Which is exactly what the Finnish men did (and still many are vowed to do now), protecting the country meant protecting their families. Some of these pictures tell the harsh reality, especially at the bottom of the page: http://nocandoo.servebeer.com/temp/su... The Estonian women were raped (many of them), their men shot, their people sent to starve to death at the forced labour camps. Yes, I think we had the right to kill soldiers of the invading army. And there is always an army in a country, if it's not your own, it's someone else's.
Tytti, I don't doubt the horrors, but you do seem to be rather wrapped up in it. I don't know how old you are - you strike me as too young to have been active in all this war-mongering, - I can just see you running headlong into battle, screaming at the top of your voice and brandishing your chosen weapon. Yours is not the only country to have experienced suffering but your attitude says "Yes, but we Finns suffered more than anyone else".Of course there is a British army - and look at all the young men and women killed recently in Afghanistan - for what? I'll have to disagree with you as I firmly believe violence solves nothing in the end.
I agree with Tytti. There are situations where killing is necessary and even if one wanted to find a peaceful solution, the other side might not wait for that. I definitely don't like war and violence, but sometimes it is unavoidable if you want to protect yourself and your loved ones.
Leslie wrote: "If you want the answer to "why are we in Afghanistan" just ask your doctor next time you need a narcotic. http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/afghan..."Not quite sure if your comment is one of approval of war. If it's narcotics that interest you....http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/0/20428167
Leslie wrote: "If you want the answer to "why are we in Afghanistan" just ask your doctor next time you need a narcotic. http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/afghan..."Sadly, I don't have the time to watch the documentary (maybe in July? :P ), but the fact that the first paragraph on that link says: "Afghan Heroin: The Lost War is a documentary which investigates how the war on terror in Afghanistan has unleashed heroin into the mainstream." doesn't really justify any bellic presence in Afghanistan, does it? It's basically saying that the war has opened doors to drug traffic (the way I see it at least). Also, narcotic is a word with negative connotations, associated more with illegal substances than with drugs within a medical context, so I doubt any doctor would prescribe them. Also, why did this come up?
Well then, it was her diary and how would you feel knowing that your journal had been published without having the intention of people reading it? Her novel/diary was very moving and you ought to be more open-minded to her struggles. Try to survive Auschwitz.
Trixie wrote: "Tytti wrote: "Maria wrote: "As for Stalin being a hero - not in Europe i guess"I think it comes from the notion that WWII was a "good war" and the good guys won, and also from seeing the pictures..." right on… as they said in my days.
Maria wrote: "What a great thread this has become! I have learned so much by reading your posts, here.Anamika: like someone said earlier, people tend to derive whenever they have to wait for your explanations ..." well said… and yes! the country of my ancestors, maybe you can visit sometime, I can show you around.
Isn't "good" a flexible term? Weren't we the bad ones to them? Good and bad is as relative as time itself.
Trixie wrote: "It is a sad fact there will NEVER be peace in this world because there are people - usually men - who thrive on aggression and confrontation. There are people - usually men - who want what the oth..." Totally agree.
Trixie wrote: "a British army - and look at all the young men and women killed recently in Afghanistan - for what?"Yes, they are in Afghanistan, it's hardly the same matter. There are wars worth fighting for and wars that are not. Are you really saying that Finland shouldn't have fought the Winter War? Because it's wrong to kill?
I can just see you running headlong into battle, screaming at the top of your voice and brandishing your chosen weapon.
That would be stupid. And as a woman I wouldn't serve in the army. But I knew several veterans who did their duty and some (or all) suffered for it. Even my uncle served in the war and probably died young because of it. They did it for me and their own children and their neighbours' children. And even after the war tens of thousands of men prepared, unofficially, to fight a guerilla war in case of an occupation.
I think the problem that many superpowers have is the inability to put yourself in other country's shoes. We, whose country has been invaded in the past, understand the willingness to fight for it, even if it was a couple of generations ago. Because there is a huge difference in whether you are fighting on your own or on a foreign soil. Even Finns noticed that during the Continuation War. I remember thinking about this before the Iraq war, and what do you know, many of the things I predicted, happened. I think the same happened in the Vietnam War: the Vietnamese were fighting on their own land, they had nowhere to go, it is almost impossible to win that kind of a war. Just like the Soviet Union didn't win the Afghan War.
Joana wrote: "Leslie wrote: "If you want the answer to "why are we in Afghanistan" just ask your doctor next time you need a narcotic. http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/afghan..."Sadly, I don't ..."
Because I mentioned (in message 500) the men and women killed in Afghanistan and dared to ask - for what?
Leslie - Totally, absolutely agree with you!
Leslie wrote: "Absolutely 100% anti-war. War is never about "protecting your family" it is always about protecting "their" assets."I wonder what and whose "assets" we were protecting in the Winter War...
And thanks, Annika, I like to see the person who don't want the air defence to fire when bombs are destroying your home town.
I think that behaviour will generate behaviour - if some country invade yours, is not to do something nice to you. I will defend my son to the dying breath, so if should there be a war in here, i would certainly continue to say that i´m a pacifist, but i would fight to keep my ground, since they came to me and not the other way around.
There are many ways to be a part of the war without actually be in the midle of it: Portugal was supposedly neutral during the WWII, supposedly should be helping the Allies, but, behind the scenes the government at the time (dictatorship) almost suceeded in suplying Germany with tungsten, a metal that is used to make bombs. and before that happened some people were able to put s stip to it, well mainly because the war turned on them and they started to loose and so Salazar went back on his steps and eventually helped the Allies.
Leslie - i saw a doc similar to this one made by a national cable channel. It´s horrible, to say the least.
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