The Diary of a Young Girl
discussion
Anyone else hate this Diary
What I find interesting is that new people have been popping out throughout the parallel discussions without any problem, so I really don't think that we have been scaring anyone away. In any case: IF YOU'RE OUT THERE, afraid of posting, be assured that we do not bite. We might ask you to justify your opinion. We might debate if we don't agree. But we aren't ogres and we are absolutely in favour of free speech, as long as it is polite and respectful of the opinions of others.
Joana wrote: "What I find interesting is that new people have been popping out throughout the parallel discussions without any problem, so I really don't think that we have been scaring anyone away. In any case:..."Well said!
And it´s true - some people have popped out, that have only been following the discussion and wanted to take part - and they did.
Leslie wrote: "Joana wrote: "Leslie wrote: "Joana wrote: "Leslie wrote: "Joana wrote: "Leslie wrote: "You can suggest all you want, but one comment about staying on topic isn't deviating. Pages and pages of off-t..."You see Leslie, what you just said, regarding a comment in the thread as akin to Nazi mentality, that is the definition of trolling. Particularly in the cadre of a discussion of Anne Franks diary, and to someone that is defending Anne and her family.
Thanks Maria. I would love some mousse au chocolat! One of my favorites. :)
No Leslie, thats not what were doing at all. But how can we be expected not to talk about other things when Anamika has not posted her reasons yet, and therefore not given us anything to talk about. Honestly, nobody is bullying Anamika, and if anybody does, i will stand up for her ( as i did in the past) but all we were doing was having a conversation and now you're calling that bullying. What are we supposed to do. Sit and wait for Anamika to post until July 2nd. No, we are going to talk and discuss with each other. There was no problem so just let us be.
Margot wrote: "Thanks Maria. I would love some mousse au chocolat! One of my favorites. :)"You are very welcome.
Joana wrote: "What I find interesting is that new people have been popping out throughout the parallel discussions without any problem, so I really don't think that we have been scaring anyone away."Without the off-topic discussions this thread would have probably been buried already. I think there has been a couple, not more than five posters who have actually "hated" the diary. But I do wonder how many posts this discussion of off-topicness has already lasted...
Mae wrote: "Leslie wrote: "Joana wrote: "Leslie wrote: "Joana wrote: "Leslie wrote: "Joana wrote: "Leslie wrote: "You can suggest all you want, but one comment about staying on topic isn't deviating. Pages and..."There are lots of threads out there defending Anne Frank's diary and her family. This one is about disliking the diary. My defense is in Anamika's right to have her thread on topic and glean from that discussion whatever she needs. Even if it is an empty thread because no one else who dislikes it will speak.
Leslie....are you Anamika´s alter-ego? Or the other way around?
I think all Anamika has gleaned is that 99.99% of people don't agree with her...
Leslie, im just curious, do you agree with Anamika?
Tytti wrote: "Without the off-topic discussions this thread would have probably been buried already."So? Maybe that's the point. Maybe that is why she politely says "stay on topic". It's not justification to hijack it.
No. But I agree with her right to maintain the space she has created as she wishes, and to seek out answers to her very specific question as she wishes. I disagree with "might makes right" which is essentially what it is when a small/single person/group makes a peaceful request, and a large person/group dismisses them because "they can" or because small person isn't doing what they want, or is considered insignificant.
Oh Maria - you beat me to it - I was about to suggest that Leslie and Anamika are one and the same! Leslie's loud and continued defence of the thread - not necessarily Anamika, but the thread - makes me wonder....
Trixie wrote: "Oh Maria - you beat me to it - I was about to suggest that Leslie and Anamika are one and the same! Leslie's loud and continued defence of the thread - not necessarily Anamika, but the thread - ..."
Sorry!
But this continued defense and when we all said that she was free to go, just continues to baffle me.
Leslie - again, once words come out of your mouth, or in this case out of the keyboard, one must be prepared for the reactions of others. If one is not prepared to present his arguments and defend them in a civilized manner, than one is about to loose whatever reason they might have had.
Leslie wrote: "Belle wrote: "I think all Anamika has gleaned is that 99.99% of people don't agree with her..."It is difficult to say, isn't it? Since the tone towards her original post began as very dismissive ..."
But we've had the discussion about language and the way it's used, and the differences. It was suggested to Anamika that maybe she didn't actually mean "hate" That person was immediately shot down by Anamika who said she chose the word deliberately.
Is she young, or isn't she? You can't seem to make up your mind in this last post of yours. Your comment is perplexing.
Tytti wrote: "Thanks, I am always on the lookout for recommendations for books from people about their homeland. I do have a bit of a problem with trusting authors writing about foreign countries. Though it's WWII, and I don't really like reading fiction about it. I just remembered that a portuguese writter wrote about the relationship between Hitler and Edward, after he abdicated on the english crown. Don´t know if it has translations, but i heard good things about it.
How vague. Explain why your reasons for hating it. Why you would hate someone else's diary is beyond me; her diary wasn't written to be read by others.
Maria wrote: "I just remembered that a portuguese writter wrote about the relationship between Hitler and Edward, after he abdicated on the english crown."The "relationship" of Edward and especially Wallis Simpson with Ribbentrop has been talked about for a long time. But the books about them rarely find themselves to the Finnish libraries, in any language.
@ Leslie. Hate is a really hard word, and to say that teenagers use that word freely and that is okay, is wrong. That word is why I am here. It is wrong, to play the Nazi card. It is wrong to bully. All these wrongs…are based on hatred. I have lived a long life fighting bullies, as a teacher, as a lawyer and as a human being. I have taught my children the power of that word, and as a lawyer I have worked on hate crime cases. One of my first attempts to deal with the issue of "hate" is to dislodge the reason why someone hates, and in most cases, there is no hate. But when there is, it is very dangerous because real hate comes from ignorance and intolerance. When people of different ideas have intelligent discourses, normally ignorance and intolerance are dissipated. That was what was happening in this threat. Everyone at one point or another has shown real interest in Anamika's opinion ( btw that is a a high compliment in itself) We have agreed on things and disagreed on others but in general our real interest has been dialogue. Some jokes, but mostly very serious conversations about war and peace. Anamika actually commented on having some of our imaginary popcorn. You have called us ( I wonder who us is, we just met online and most of us are not even friends) a mob, bullies…used the nazi card (unforgivable) and hypocritically hijacked the thread.
@Anmika, if you are real, I am really interested in your reveal and I mean it with the best intentions. Hate is a big word and should not be used lightly, it is not okay, even if you are a teenager or an adult.
Mae wrote: "@ Leslie. Hate is a really hard word, and to say that teenagers use that word freely and that is okay, is wrong. That word is why I am here. It is wrong, to play the Nazi card. It is wrong to bu..."While you dismiss/invalidate my points, I will give yours the consideration they warrant based on Anamika's request to stay on topic = "I am looking for people who dislike (hate) the diary."
Leslie wrote: "I "hated" lots of stuff when I was young...but I didn't really "hate" it."Posting stuff you don't really mean in the way written is the very definition of trolling, isn't it? The reason behind it -young age; mean spirit etc- isn't important. If you tell the world, that you are hating, even though you are not, you're a troll. It is this simple.
Daniel wrote: "Leslie wrote: "I "hated" lots of stuff when I was young...but I didn't really "hate" it."Posting stuff you don't really mean in the way written is the very definition of trolling, isn't it? The r..."
Thank you! Precise and concise.
And the horse was exhumed again to get some more beating...
Leslie wrote: "Mae wrote: "@ Leslie. Hate is a really hard word, and to say that teenagers use that word freely and that is okay, is wrong. That word is why I am here. It is wrong, to play the Nazi card. It is..."Anammika's actual words
"I literally hate this diary.I hated it even before I read it.But I thought I was being paranoid and read it,yet no change.Anyone else having the same problem?In addition to that,I'm also trying to research on books and it would be a helpful if you tell. "
Clearly the thread is open to discussion. You don't ask people to leave because you don't agree with them.
This is a first. We cannot comment in the discussion threats unless you agree with the OP. Hmmm I did not dismiss or invalidate your point. I said they were wrong. I even gave you the consideration of a whole paragraph explaining why when and how, and more than once in this thread.
I think we have exhausted the topic of the diary and worn it so thin that it has worn thin. If Anamika wants to stop us, it may be difficult to stop us now. I think it is actually great that this thread has been able to draw(for the most part) an intelligent group who has formed fascinating discussions. This has been tarnished by the insults flying around. I thing that, at least in my case, we are just waiting for the Big Reveal because curiosity has gotten the better of us. What will Anamika astonish us with next? Fresh strawberries for that chocolate mousse, anybody?
Sorry I did not realize how I had typed that first sentence!!!! Oops!
The definition of Trolling is "saying something inflammatory to evoke a response".
Mae wrote: "The definition of Trolling is "saying something inflammatory to evoke a response"."That doesn't seem a bit general/broad to you?
@ Anamika and everyone on this thread. I am in the process of trying to figure out how to start a GR group. I am in a couple of groups, one is Irish and is wonderful. But this thread has been a fascinating experience and I have learned much from all --including you BELLE.Send me a message if you are interested, and we can all come up with a format. In the Irish group, we have books that are read together, or books that someone reviews and we discuss. And then we have the social thread… The good thing about you guys is the diversity of nationalities and ages… I think that is good. Some very smart young ones in the group-- I think the varied perspectives was brilliant. Anamika you are invited…
Leslie wrote: "Mae wrote: " I did not dismiss or invalidate your point. I said they were wrong. I even gave you the consideration of a whole paragraph explaining why when and how, and more than once in this threa..."Please reread what I wrote. I did not say your point of view was wrong. I said that dropping the nazi card is wrong and I insist, really wrong, I said being a bully is wrong and hijacking a thread for three pages to complain about people being off topic, is hypocritical. And I proceeded to explain that hate was wrong. I am proud to have been a lawyer, and a teacher and if you think that was me being a lawyer, my dear, you aint seen nothing yet, and you won't, because I will not give you the pleasure. Off into the sunset...
Babafaba(Hypnos)((Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore))(((Scuttle)))((((Scar)))) wrote: "Could you specify the cases in which "trolling" has another meaning and which is that, please?"Apparently a troll is:
"A person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4]
This sense of the word troll and its associated verb trolling are associated with Internet discourse, but have been used more widely. Media attention in recent years has equated trolling with online harassment."
She may have intended to be shocking and inflammatory with her opening statement, but I don't think she was or has since been "sowing discord" or showing any overt maliciousness at all. She has been pretty polite for the most part. So, I don't think that's trolling.
Anamika- now would be a good time to set things right on this thread for Leslie.
Olivia wrote: "Anamika- now would be a good time to set things right on this thread for Leslie."You're absolutely right - do you see how annoying it is?
That discussion was about the idea that all wars are wrong. I guess I could have used the whole WWII as an example. Because according to that idea (and you) also WWII was wrong and Anne shouldn't have expected any help to come. Things should have just been discussed with Hitler.
Tytti wrote: "That discussion was about the idea that all wars are wrong. I guess I could have used the whole WWII as an example. Because according to that idea (and you) also WWII was wrong and Anne shouldn't h..."I would be happy to discuss that on a thread appropriate to that topic. Perhaps you could find a book related to that discussion and start one?
Leslie wrote: "I would be happy to discuss that on a thread appropriate to that topic."I wouldn't be. Because there is nothing to discuss. Every sane person knows that some wars in WWII needed to be fought.
Babafaba(Hypnos)((Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore))(((Scuttle)))((((Scar)))) wrote: "Well, whoever is looking for people who hate the diary could just read the first pages. We have nothing else to say about it but I promise you that if I have something to add I'll make sure to post..."Thanks Babafaba, I really appreciate your thoughts and feedback :D I'm going to delete our exchange, as it is redundant and superfluous, but I appreciate your thoughtful point of view and patience.
all wars show a lack of corage and intelligence on all sides. there was no need for WW2, but it would have had to have been prevented in 1918, not 1939. Europe spent 2000 years or more (from the time they crawled out of caves and realized their were other people in the next valley) trying to kill each other. something clicked after WW2 (I was taught it was the great American leadership, but I am pretty sure that is crap sold to Americans, just like the "fact" that the Yanks won the war). I believe the reason WW3 never happened in Europe, at least so far, was because of two things, the center of power moved off the continent to Russia and America, and the war ended with a somewhat more equitable resolution, though it took a while to get Germany back together...
Anthony wrote: "all wars show a lack of corage and intelligence on all sides. there was no need for WW2, but it would have had to have been prevented in 1918, not 1939. Europe spent 2000 years or more (from the ti..."That would be a great observation on a thread about war. Is there a book you could start a thread about so people interested in that topic would go to the right place?
Anthony wrote: " I believe the reason WW3 never happened in Europe, at least so far, was because of two things, the center of power moved off the continent to Russia and America"Or more likely because of EU. Some people think that WWIII already happened in several other countries during the Cold War. And I believe the number of years that for example USA hasn't been at war (or involved somehow) since 1945 is quite small. (Also, you can't expect that smaller nations accept the same blame for wars as greater nations that actually start them. What Poland or Belgium could have done to prevent it?)
Leslie, you are overreacting. No offense, but the diary is about war. These discussions are a good way to twiddle our thumbs waiting for Anamika.
Olivia wrote: "Leslie, you are overreacting. No offense, but the diary is about war. These discussions are a good way to twiddle our thumbs waiting for Anamika."Anamika was the one who requested we stay on topic, which is "I am looking for people who disliked the diary". Discussions about the war, or war in general, should have their own thread where people who want to discuss that can see that is the topic, so that Anamika's thread can attract and contain the discussion she wants to have. No twiddling required, you will be notified when comments are made by Anamika.
Except that she isn't really interested in having a discussion. In order to have one you have to participate in it and she hasn't. There have even been people who have admitted some form of dislike for the book and, as far as I remember, she didn't react to those posts in any way. She should have asked a discussion question and she can still do that, not start a discussion that she has no intention of having (which was clear almost from the beginning) and then complain when things don't go her way. That neglect has made this thread more or less free game. Even her own posts have been mainly about her, not about the topic itself.
Tytti wrote: "Except that she isn't really interested in having a discussion. In order to have one you have to participate in it and she hasn't. There have even been people who have admitted some form of dislike..."Why does that make it free game and not "start your own thread about what you want to talk about" - I still don't see why it is okay for you to hijack the thread when you have been asked not to. How she manages her thread is really her business, isn't it? Or do we all get to go around to any thread we want start up whatever discussion we want simply because it is what we feel like doing. If she isn't doing what you want, how you want, when you want her to do it, it's free game? Tell me again about "victims" versus "aggressors"?
holy cow Leslie! you are one of the people that has now hijacked the thread!!!how is any of your 3 page argument about the book or what Anamika wants it to be about?
war is more about the book than you having an issue with people
Emma wrote: "holy cow Leslie! you are one of the people that has now hijacked the thread!!!how is any of your 3 page argument about the book or what Anamika wants it to be about?
war is more about the book..."
Previously covered.
Leslie wrote: "Tytti wrote: "Except that she isn't really interested in having a discussion. In order to have one you have to participate in it and she hasn't. There have even been people who have admitted some f..."Exactly. She's a troll and poseur wasting our time and probably cackling away about all the earnest posts in response. "I hated this book before I read it." Why? "Lot's of reasons." (But none stated). A either has no real thoughts about the book or she is too chicken-s--t to expose them. To hell with this.
basically! well put Kallie
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And i´ve never said she is young or old - because whatever age she ..."
yes, she did say take your discussion to your own thread.