Space Opera Fans discussion
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What is Space Opera?
Mary wrote: "A personal story against that interstellar backdrop isn't space opera. "I'm trying to follow your line of thinking... so I have to ask, how do you define "a personal story?" Do you mean a story with only one main character, or..?
Gaines wrote: "Mary wrote: "A personal story against that interstellar backdrop isn't space opera. "I'm trying to follow your line of thinking... so I have to ask, how do you define "a personal story?" Do you m..."
What Nathan meant. 0:)
Gaines wrote: "Nathan wrote: "I take a wider view of space opera - any story set against the backdrop of an interstellar civilization."So, interstellar and not simply interplanetary (as in, taking place within ..."
Near-Earth space opera? A multi-planetary (or asteroid) civilization would still be space opera as it's on a much grander scale than planetary drama. It all hinges on the 'Evil Overlord' aspect, of having some kind of high stakes that would affect more than just a single planet, fate of the entire solar system kind of scale.
I think we have a Listopia for that :-)
SOLAR SYSTEM OPERA: https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...
yeah, I think once it gets off-planet it's space opera. Especially if the author makes use of the vast size of the solar system. (Though they are notoriously weak on that, as on larger scales.)
Mary wrote: "yeah, I think once it gets off-planet it's space opera. Especially if the author makes use of the vast size of the solar system. (Though they are notoriously weak on that, as on larger scales.)"From my point of view I tend to go interstellar at once as it's unlikely that any star will have many planets in the "Goldilocks zone", where it is possible for the characters to walk around unprotected on the surface.
However I do make use of the vast scales. In fact the entire concept of "Arcturian Politics" is based on the distances being so huge that monopoly of faster than light travel is ultimate power.
I think there has to be a sense of adventure in space opera.
Anna wrote: "Gaines wrote: "Nathan wrote: "I take a wider view of space opera - any story set against the backdrop of an interstellar civilization."So, interstellar and not simply interplanetary (as in, takin..."
Thanks Anna and Mary :-)
Kirsten *Dogs Welcome - People Tolerated" wrote: "I think there has to be a sense of adventure in space opera."I completely agree. Not just adventure, but a sense of it, as you said. It's that thrill that's important; that wonder of what's over the next horizon, so to speak; inside the next nebula, through the next star system, etc etc.
The famous sense of wonder.Or sensawunda, if you're feeling silly
Gaines wrote: "It's that thrill that's important; that wonder of what's over the next horizon"A thousand generations and more looked up at a sky they didn't understand, and named the stars—never dreaming they were naming the suns that would burn in the skies of worlds their children would inherit.
I'm not sure if a sense of wonder is as important as a sense of adventure. In fact, I think you could have a space opera under the sea if done right. Or would that be a sea opera?
Kirsten *Dogs Welcome - People Tolerated" wrote: "I'm not sure if a sense of wonder is as important as a sense of adventure. In fact, I think you could have a space opera under the sea if done right. Or would that be a sea opera?"Yes:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7...
Kirsten *Dogs Welcome - People Tolerated" wrote: "I'm not sure if a sense of wonder is as important as a sense of adventure."I think you're right; a sufficient sense of adventure could be all a good space opera needs in many cases.
Gaines wrote: "Kirsten *Dogs Welcome - People Tolerated" wrote: "I'm not sure if a sense of wonder is as important as a sense of adventure."I think you're right; a sufficient sense of adventure could be all a g..."
To my mind the reverse is true, adventure we can find on earth, it's the sense of wonder we get when we leave the planet that is the spice to space opera.
Absolutely, R! It does need that sense of wonder, as well as adventure. I just meant it doesn't need to have all that excess hard science.
My thinking is that if you can say, "It's like [blah], but in space," you've got a space opera.Star Trek: TOS? It's like a western, but in space!
Star Wars: A New Hope? It's like The Hidden Fortress, but in space!
The Star Trek episode where the Enterprise encounters a cloaked Romulan ship? It's like a submarine drama, but in space!
The dogfight when Luke and the rebel squadron are attacking the first Death Star? It's like a World War II dogfight, but in space!
Opera doesn't just refer to a style of music but is also a term for an epic story, like a soap opera that goes on and on for decades. So any space opera is like an opera, but in space!
Does that mean the the Star Trek novel "How Much for Just the Planet?" which was a take-off of Gilbert & Sullivan could be considered space operetta.
John wrote: "Does that mean the the Star Trek novel "How Much for Just the Planet?" which was a take-off of Gilbert & Sullivan could be considered space operetta."Haha!
Greg wrote: "Opera doesn't just refer to a style of music but is also a term for an epic story"Actually, the term "space opera" was originally a take on "horse opera" -- a derisive term for Westerns -- and always meant as an insult.
It lost the connotations and picked up the genre ones when people tried to abuse the genre out of existence.
John wrote: "Does that mean the the Star Trek novel "How Much for Just the Planet?" which was a take-off of Gilbert & Sullivan could be considered space operetta."Only if you can whistle the tunes....
Alas you are speaking to one who is musically challenged. My singing is forbidden under the Geneva Convention as cruel and unusual punishment.
Greg wrote: "So any space opera is like an opera, but in space!"hehe, good perspective there :-) Thanks.
R. wrote: "Only if you can whistle the tunes...."Or if your ship's central computer can dance a cachucha.
My take on Space Opera is anything sci fi with a vast and sweeping universe. The story needs to include parts of this universe, of course, and give the reader a sense of the immense. You can have very personal, intimate stories about a single character, so long as the troubles he moves about in span the multitudes.
This is unrelated to the topic of "what is space opera" as a genre, but I just wanted to say that I am really enjoying Space Opera Fans as a *group* on Goodreads, due to its relative lack of snobbery. Thank you, kind people.
Gaines wrote: "This is unrelated to the topic of "what is space opera" as a genre, but I just wanted to say that I am really enjoying Space Opera Fans as a *group* on Goodreads, due to its relative lack of snobbery..."Science Fiction tends to be like that :-) It's like science in general, I think? People are interested in the science. When you focus on facts, stuff like snobbery really doesn't have a place?
Good point. The few scientists I know are all really down-to-Earth, cool, nice people.
Anna wrote: "Gaines wrote: "This is unrelated to the topic of "what is space opera" as a genre, but I just wanted to say that I am really enjoying Space Opera Fans as a *group* on Goodreads, due to its relative..."I have never met a science fiction snob - can such even exist? 35 years ago we were the nerds, the literary outcasts, believed to be mostly male adolescents. In the 70s all my science teachers were male, except the single, older woman in earth sciences ----
In the past couple of years I have had several men comment to me that it's odd to see a woman in the science fiction aisle of the book store. The first time my thought was your pick up lines need work. After multiple repeats of the same theme, from ages 30 something to 60 something, I am astonished that women reading science fiction is still considered odd.
It is impossible to be a snob while crawling on the floor on my hands and knees searching the bottom bookshelf for a new sci-fi book to read.
I think it's rather outdated to think women wouldn't read science fiction. And why wouldn't we? I love sci-fi.
I came across this 2003 article about the evolution of the space opera genre, by Hartwell and Cramer. Informative and descriptive -http://www.sfrevu.com/ISSUES/2003/030...
The original definition of soap opera, "A hack science-fiction story, a dressed-up Western; so called by analogy with "horse opera" for Western bangbangshootemup movies and "soap opera" for radio and video yellowdrama."
Their most current description of space opera in this article (1980s), "colorful, dramatic, large-scale science fiction adventure, competently and sometimes beautifully written, usually focused on a sympathetic, heroic central character and plot action, and usually set in the relatively distant future, and in space or on other worlds, characteristically optimistic in tone. It often deals with war, piracy, military virtues, and very large-scale action, large stakes."
Leonie wrote: "I think it's rather outdated to think women wouldn't read science fiction. And why wouldn't we? I love sci-fi."
It surprised me to hear it. I have been reading sci-fi since I was 12.
Lizzie wrote: "The original definition of soap opera, "A hack science-fiction story, a dressed-up Western; so called by analogy with "horse opera" for Western bangbangshootemup movies and "soap opera" for radio and video yellowdrama."..."Space Opera grew out of the old spaghetti western pulp fiction that was popular at that time. And quite frankly, I see absolutely nothing wrong with that! Clint Eastwood in space? Totally rocks...
Leonie wrote: "I think it's rather outdated to think women wouldn't read science fiction. And why wouldn't we? I love sci-fi."
Well yes. If women were allowed to fly spaceships they might be embarrassingly good at it.
Since the subtitle to a lot of my SF could be "in which girl power gets nuclear capability" I'm with you on this one.
R. wrote: "From my point of view I tend to go interstellar at once as it's unlikely that any star will have many planets in the "Goldilocks zone", where it is possible for the characters to walk around unprotected on the surface."I think here you're talking about the genre next door to Space Opera, which is Planetary Romance. ("Romance" in the older literary sense of "extraordinary adventures", not "heaving bosoms" -- although that could be an aspect of it.) Something like ERB's Barsoom series or Herbert's Dune series.
For me, Space Opera has to have two elements: take place in outer space and have an epic scale. The second one doesn't necessarily have to be about war, but that *is* the easiest way to get to epic.
And pedantically, there are precious few areas on Earth where we can walk around unprotected. A spacesuit and habitat is merely a difference of degree rather than kind from a parka and an igloo.
Greg wrote: "My thinking is that if you can say, "It's like [blah], but in space," you've got a space opera."You need the epic scope of a big story, though.
Alien is a slasher film in space, not a space opera.
Gravity is a survival story in space, not a space opera.
Silent Running is a man v. organization story in space, not a space opera.
Zathura is a family adventure comedy in space, not a space opera.
John wrote: "Does that mean the the Star Trek novel "How Much for Just the Planet?" which was a take-off of Gilbert & Sullivan could be considered space operetta."I see what you did there.
Lizzie wrote: "I am astonished that women reading science fiction is still considered odd."Those people need to crawl out from under their rocks lol
Lizzie wrote: "Anna wrote: "Gaines wrote: "This is unrelated to the topic of "what is space opera" as a genre, but I just wanted to say that I am really enjoying Space Opera Fans as a *group* on Goodreads, due to..."1= I run into sci-fi snobs all the time.
2 = When I was in middle school, my teacher told me that it was "inappropriate for young ladies to read science fiction".
Packi wrote: "So Goodreads has this list of great space opera books here. It tells me I've read 15 of the top 100 books. So I went on to find some general principles prevalent throughout all those books I've rea..."I like this list, and this is a fun thread to read because everyone has a different opinion.
So question: Does SevenEves qualify as a Space Opera? Given that about 75% of the story takes place in orbit, but the events (end of the world) and timescale (5000 years) are huge?
Seveneves
Tom wrote: "So question: Does SevenEves qualify as a Space Opera? Given that about 75% of the story takes place in orbit, but the events (end of the world) and timescale (5000 years) are huge?"Hmm, interesting.
It's certainly a border case. The first third is apocalyptic, the second part definitely fulfills the criteria of "space-based + epic", while the third section is solidly Planetary Romance.
I guess my answer is "partially" because of the yes-and aspects.
Just indexed the first volume in Dark Horse's Space Family Robinson Archives series. Trying to figure out if it qualifies as space opera or not.
John wrote: "Just indexed the first volume in Dark Horse's Space Family Robinson Archives series. Trying to figure out if it qualifies as space opera or not."Isn't that Lost in Space? I would think it would be space opera.
The comic was Space Family Robinson and later Space Family Robinson Lost in Space. The television show was Lost in Space. The two are not related. In fact they both came out at the same time. Usually there is a bit of a time lag so publishers know a series is popular before pursuing a license to do a comic book. The Robinson family in the comic is comprised of Craig (father), June (mother), Tim (son) and Tam (daughter). Apparently Gold Key and CBS reached some sort of agreement to allow Gold Key to use the Lost in Space name on the later issues of the comic.
I loved both Space Family Robinson (comic) and Lost in Space (TV) as a kid. I always figured one was an adaptation of the other. It wasn't until I was in college that I learned of the doctrine of scène à faire where two people come up with an idea independently but happen to hit upon similar results because of demands of the genre they're working in. In this case, I suspect it was the hit Disney film Swiss Family Robinson combined with the space race that inspired the idea to put the Robinsons in space. Since they were both working from the same launching pad (ha!), they came up with similar stories. Space family, meteor storm, getting lost in space, pets... although in the latter case, SFR kept the dog and parrot while LiS went with the chimp. I don't remember if SFR had a robot. (They definitely had the cooler shuttles.)
I'd classify both versions as Planetary Romance rather than Space Opera. It's just the one family going from one exotic locale to the next in their modest space yacht. Even Space: 1999 had more of the epic scale to it.
In another confluence, Netflix just announced it's ordered a 10-episode reboot of Lost in Space.http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/lost-...
No robot in Space Family Robinson, at least not in the first seven issues and not in the later ones I recall reading. In the comic they didn't actually end up cut off from Earth for the most part until the second issue. Their main ship is even referred to as Earth Station One and the characters didn't travel too far from space (they save an Earth rocketship crew in the second story in that issue and those guys are headed straight back to Earth at the end of the story.
Trike wrote: "In another confluence, Netflix just announced it's ordered a 10-episode reboot of Lost in Space.http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/lost-..."
What's that? Can you hear that? That's my dad in Heaven groaning.
He hated Lost in Space and all shows that suffered from that disease.
You know, Lost in Space, Gilligan's Island,etc, where if the one thing happened the show would be over.
Space Opera Fans
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So, interstellar and not simply interplanetary (as in, taking place within our solar system). Okay, fair enough, but how then would you categorize stories that take place exclusively within our solar system (and not just on one planet) -- and do not have an interstellar civilization as a backdrop? Solar System Opera?
(and please don't say "hard sci-fi" because the Expanse, for example, is not hard sci-fi)