If you want readers, why aren't you defending them?

[[deleted user]]

Nenia wrote: "How is that reaching? Do you seriously not understand how reducing a woman to a SEXUAL ORGAN can be seen as offensive? Seriously? SERIOUSLY? "

I didn't say it wasn't offensive. I said it wasn't on par with a racial slur. And it's not.

[Lily]

Well, this thread is dead. So long topic, it was nice knowing you.

[[deleted user]]

Amanda wrote: "I like how there are all these men on here trying to tell women that the word cunt isn't offensive or sexist."

I like how you can't read.

[D.C.]

Amanda wrote: "I like how there are all these men on here trying to tell women that the word cunt isn't offensive or sexist."

There seem to be at least a couple of women who find it only moderately offensive as well, although I don't know if they're from the U.S. or not. It would be interesting to have women who belong to other minority groups (using the term loosely, because while women may be marginalized, we are not in a minority)and see how loaded they find that particular word.

[[deleted user]]

D.C. wrote: "Amanda wrote: "I like how there are all these men on here trying to tell women that the word cunt isn't offensive or sexist."

There seem to be at least a couple of women who find it only moderate..."

So you think that black women could find the word cunt offensive more so than white women because of their skin color?

Yikes.

[S.L.]

Lily wrote: "Well, this thread is dead. So long topic, it was nice knowing you."

It was interesting for a while. Best we can ask for, I suppose. Oh internets.

[Debbie's Spurts (D.A.)]

[deleted by user; leaving this comment just as a courtesy placeholder.]

[R.F.G.]

Richard wrote: "Lily wrote: "I'm still being ignored."

Actually, back stage here at Rodent Central, you've been on our radar and you made the list. LOL."

She doesn't realize being ignored is not such a bad thing at times.

Oh well, time to check the kid's diaper -- another 'gift' awaits me :)

[D.C.]

Paul wrote: "D.C. wrote: "Amanda wrote: "I like how there are all these men on here trying to tell women that the word cunt isn't offensive or sexist."

There seem to be at least a couple of women who find it ..."

Now I know you are being facetious. I meant, and I thought it was fairly clear, whether they found it more or less offensive than other terms that might be applied to them. I suspect it falls in the middle of the scale, but that's a guess.

It should be clear that I, and a number of other women here, find it far more insulting than any number of other silly names you might come up with. If you didn't know that before, you do now. And anyone wondered why I chose not to indulge you?

[Debbie's Spurts (D.A.)]

[deleted by user; leaving this comment just as a courtesy placeholder.]

[Lisa]

In the UK the C word is not considered a particularly offensive word by most people although it sends some feminists reeling. I think its use by D.H.Lawrence liberates it from the level of invective. It is certainly far less offensive than the N word and on a banter level with pr*** and tw** The word bitch on the other hand is truly nasty (and Dy** is undoubtedly abusive).

L.H. suggestion that everyone go back to writing (or reading) books seems a good one to me. I am off to bed before the thread gets deleted! Have a nice evening!

[Figgy]

Sorry, I will be going back to the start and reading through(something that has been proving very tough to do on my phone), but has anyone seen this?

Speaks to OP's original point: http://www.dailydot.com/business/babo...

[J.T.]

That is the funniest article

[Bonnie]

R.A. wrote: "We're not exactly a self-governing community. Other than encourage writers not to respond reviews, I don't know what I can do to protect readers. If people on both sides would just have a little re..."

I'm new to self-publishing coming from traditional publishing so I haven't been aware of this. I having been speaking out on my blog about the deluge of poor writing on Amazon. I have withdrawn from a group (not naming) that promotes mediocre writing and ignores criticism. I have posted 2 and 3 star reviews when warranted.

I've received 3 star reviews and said nothing to the reviewer, unless it was thank you. I appreciate the time they take to give their opinion and I seriously consider how I can improve in my next piece of writing.

I believe that's professional behaviour. People who publish half-assed (am I allowed to say that) work and then get angry when they are called on it, are shooting themselves in the foot. Unfortunately, sometimes the fragments of their self-destructive actions become shrapnel for the rest of us.

[Bonnie]

J.D. wrote: "I think this will all work itself out eventually. Those authors putting out sub-standard work and behaving unprofessionally--especially those attacking readers whose opinions don't support their d..."

Nice analogy.

[Bonnie]

Martyn V. wrote: "Where I am? I'm in those threads you mention, defending the right of readers to publish the ratings/reviews they want, and condemning the crap artists who perpetuate the stigma of self-publishing b..."

Oh, so right on. (I know, showing my age.)

[Bonnie]

ThreeRs (Got Logic?) wrote: "Ken wrote: "Jason wrote: "This is interesting. As a self-published author, my only defense is "I didn't know." I don't read through other reviews, looking for replies from the author to diss out th..."

OMG, what is wrong with people?

[Daniel]

I have posted that to voice annoyance at a review is ridiculous, I have also pointed out that editing, proof reading and beta reading are all very important and have even started a group for authors wanting to become publishers to discuss my own experience.

I have not been involved in reading any threads where an author is arguing or abusing a reader(s).

My thoughts on any that do is that no one should read them. I did answer a post about a reader who was asked to change their review by the author because they had not understood the book. My answer was the reader should not alter a word. I think that may have been to do with a blog and a free copy if I recall.

My thoughts are simple. Readers are diverse and no author can be enjoyed by everyone. Ego kills the artists stone dead and every writer should realise when the book is done, it belongs to the world.

[Karma♥Bites ^.~]

L.H. wrote: "...And by the way, "cunt" is not sexist; in most of the world it's less offensive than many terms thrown around over here and I've called drinking buddies it. In Australia and Britain, it's pretty interchangeable for "bitch" or "prick.""

Ah, as if casually throwing around 'bitch' and 'prick' (much less 'cunt') on a GR thread attempting to discuss a real concern is OK. And to boot, amongst total strangers who are somehow equivalent to your drinking buddies? Yeah, OK.

Btw, the person who so lacked manners (and methinks, sound argument) as to call a member a 'cunt' is AMERICAN. So is the intended recipient. So what relevance do usage in other parts of the world have to do w/ how it was used in THIS thread? Stop trying to excuse and/or divert attention away from the appalling lack of maturity and respect shown by Paul Allih.

Sad, really, that an author lacks sufficient facility w/ words so to resort to base terms during a discussion. Which, I might add, was a perfect example of an ad hominem argument--resorting to the personal instead of addressing the actual issue (altho the oft-misused 'attack' actually works in this instance).

etc: typos

[Karma♥Bites ^.~]

Daniel wrote: "...I have not been involved in reading any threads where an author is arguing or abusing a reader(s). ..."

FYI, you have now. Welcome. :/

[Yzabel]

I think we can agree it was an ad hominem. No matter what part of the world, the fact that this has been going on has now removed any possibility of it having been "just a word thrown in like that."

However, you guys DO realise that some of you have been dancing on strings for the past 16 hours or so, right? Because now, it's not about defending people anymore. It's about fuel thrown on the fire, and more fuel getting happily added to the pile. It's not achieving anything anymore: this is the problem now.

Paul used a derogatory word. Tina used one as well. Insults were thrown in. That was inappropriate. They had nothing to do here or in any other thread. Some people pointed at it. Some reported it without even bothering to enter the flame fest because, well, it smelt bait from 10 miles. It was a beautifully ironic "opportunity" in such a thread... for about one page. Now the thread's tanked, and shall probably contribute to finding oil if we go on digging like that.

If derailing the discussion was the aim, which I suspect it was, at least partly, then it's a job well-done.

We have to pick our battles. This one was valid at first, but has now turned to an extended, useless skirmish on the outskirts of the real battlefield. I wouldn't be surprised if it has achieved exactly what the OP did NOT want: persuade MORE authors to keep their mouths shut. Because if they don't act, they're called on it; and if they do, they're also called on it because they didn't do it fast enough, or didn't argument enough, or failed to acknowledge the exact degree of insult (when saying "it's insulting, stop it" is just as valid a defence IMHO), or... whatever else, there's just too much going on to keep track.

The only thing achieved here in the end was goading us into bickering and a potentially thread-closing situation. Well done, indeed.

[Karma♥Bites ^.~]

Yzabel wrote: "..It was a beautifully ironic "opportunity" in such a thread... for about one page. Now the thread's tanked, and shall probably contribute to finding oil if we go on digging like that. ..."

Actually, I see a positive from Paul's less-than-admirable choice of reply. If he replies in such manner to differing opinion or criticism during a general discussion on a thread, then not a far stretch to wonder how he'd react to the same re: *his book*, non?
_____________

FWIW, I agree w/ Paul's initial point that generally, it's not anyone's place to tell complete strangers how to behave. However, I believe that he's short-sighted (and rather ego-centric) if he truly believes that unprofessional and/or outrageous behaviour, especially when mostly from the SPA sector, 'has nothing' to do w/ him. Said behaviour cannot be discarded as being 'personal' or an isolated incident simply b/c it also reflects on a group, not just the individual.

The reality is that one SPA after another losing their shite and spouting on and/or off GR affects *all* SPAs in one way or another. No, SPAs aren't in a special club w/ pinky swears. But for better or for worse, they *are* fishing in the same lake--a small, rather contained lake which is GR, a larger lake which is Amazon, and a huge ocean which is the publishing world at large.

And what happens when enough shite gets dumped into contained waters filled w/ life? The once-clear water becomes polluted and if allowed to continue, eventually loses its ability to sustain fish. In which event, those that can haul off for fresher waters.

So whilst I personally feel that authors have no obligation to get involved (and I certainly don't expect them to), there is truth to Three's statement in her OP:

"...when a certain sort of behavior seems to come predominantly from a certain sector (i.e. self-published authors), the behavior reflects on you all..."

That's just reality--not on a personal level but as a group of individuals engaged in the same commercial activity.

Reader are not psychic so it's not unreasonable that, after repeated instances, some decide to stop playing the odds (read: cease trying & reading SPAs). Not unreasonable that bloggers get tired of certain authors--whether pretending to be gung-ho readers so to talk up their books and/or haranguing them over reviews which they requested--to point of eschewing all SP books. (Of course, there's no guarantee re: trad-pub authors but currently, there's still less risk from that front.)

You [meaning, general 'you' to all authors] can tell yourself that it's none of your concern. Just don't complain, now or later, that readers are being too 'hasty' or 'discriminating' (or to use Paul's words, 'a special kind of idiot') if they pre-emptively write off more and more of the SPA output.

ETA: FWIW, I don't need 'protection' or 'support' from authors. But it would be nice if some were less concerned w/ simplistic Thumperisms taught to children and more concerned w/ calling out childish BS from supposed adults.

etc: for clarity

[Vanessa Eden]

As a reader, the reason I don't like to read self published works is because often times the works are not edited(or poorly done so) and the research on the topic is usually not done thoroughly.
I feel like self published authors do seem offended when readers say things like that. Why do they not learn from what we say and utilize it? I, the reader am paying for the book or e-book, and I am not wasting my hard earned money on a poorly edited book where the author only half understand the genre in which they are writing.

[Yzabel]

Karma♥Bites ^.~ wrote: "Actually, I see a positive from Paul's less-than-admirable choice of reply. If he replies in such manner to differing opinion or criticism during a general discussion on a thread, then not a far stretch to wonder how he'd react to the same re: *his book*..."

Oh, we do agree on that in general. I'm not going to say "it's none of my concern", nor that it's an isolated incident, etc.

What I addressed was specifically the issue that followed, i.e. when insults started flying (even though there weren't pages and pages of insults) and the discussion went from "debate" to "flame-bait". This is my problem: not authors sticking their heads in the sand, but the way the whole thing was handled afterwards, in not such a brilliant manner.

We have to keep one thing in mind: the people who harass readers are often of the trollish kind, often resort to insults, and have a knack for getting on other people's nerves, in turn prompting more heated responses. If we are to defend our readers, we can't do it properly by letting ourselves be goaded into similar tactics, by allowing trolls to manipulate us into playing their game (something a lot are skilled in). We can't let ourselves get into a huff and start calling names, too. It undermines our credibility, and I believe it also contributes to readers thinking "well, ALL SPAs are childish, even the ones who speak up for us, so I'm not going to bother with them anymore". In a way, we're also losing our shite in this thread, and this is getting us nowhere.

In short: let's defend our readers in a smart way, not by flying off the handle. It's not easy. Sometimes it involves stepping down for a while, just to cool down. It doesn't mean that we're cowards, don't care, don't want to be involved. To me, it's just the internet equivalent of "think before you speak". Once you've thought, then you can speak efficiently.

[[deleted user]]

Karma♥Bites ^.~ wrote: "Yzabel wrote: "..It was a beautifully ironic "opportunity" in such a thread... for about one page. Now the thread's tanked, and shall probably contribute to finding oil if we go on digging like tha..."

I have repeatedly said that I am against authors commenting on their reviews or authors flaming people for giving honest reviews of their books.

On a lighter note...

I don't think it's any real coincidence that the OP and those "readers" who agreed with him/her are all listed on STGRB. It's also not a coincidence that some of these people from the thread (and a few of others who are also listed on that site) attacked my book pages either.

No skin off my teeth. I've blocked them and I'll have the erroneous reviews taken down. After all, a number of them are well known for this kind of behavior. I'm kind of shocked that an author, Neina would join in on that kind of insincere reviewing, but hey, she's on STGRB for reason, I guess.

Is this how things operate around here? Do as we say and if you get out of line or we'll sabotage your page? Hahaha, it's like the days when the mafia strong armed the streets of New York, but it's the internet with trolls who pass themselves off as readers.

Too funny.

[Karma♥Bites ^.~]

Yzabel wrote: "...What I addressed was specifically the issue that followed, i.e. when insults started flying (even though there weren't pages and pages of insults) and the discussion went from "debate" to "flame-bait". This is my problem: not authors sticking their heads in the sand, but the way the whole thing was handled afterwards, in not such a brilliant manner. ..."

Firstly, apologies, Yzabel. I should've clearly marked the transition from replying to your post to a general airing of thoughts. Will edit my post after this one. :)

RE: the comment copied above, I believe that there's truth to something in your earlier post--namely:

If derailing the discussion was the aim, which I suspect it was, at least partly, then it's a job well-done.

I, too, suspect the same. But from my observations of how similar threads progressed, par for the course. Kinda amusing how some posts almost seem to deliberately bring up irrelevant issues and take a thread OT so to avoid head-on discussion of an uncomfortable or unwanted topic. *shrug*

etc: typos

[Yzabel]

@Karma: No problem. Sometimes I also go on without realising that I've transitioned into something else than an answer to one post only. And I wouldn't mind going back to the original issue (although I'm not sure there's still that much to add?).

[Karma♥Bites ^.~]

@Yzabel, agreed. And yet...


Paul wrote: "...I don't think it's any real coincidence that the OP and those "readers" who agreed with him/her are all listed on STGRB. It's also not a coincidence that some of these people from the thread (and a few of others who are also listed on that site) attacked my book pages either."

No, Paul, it's not a coincidence. Think about it & I'm sure that it'll come to you. :)

And FTR, as tasteless as your behaviour was (and is), not enough for me to bother shelving your books. I'm pretty sure that I'll have no problems remembering to avoid your works.


ETA: 'Attacked' *your* book pages? Firstly, hyperbole much?

Secondly, GR book pages aren't yours. They don't belong to any author. Which is why they are called 'community book pages'--except by certain folks, it seems.

Thirdly and most importantly, rating, shelving & reviewing are 3 different things. Different words, different meanings. See how that works? Language is a beautiful thing.

[[deleted user]]

Karma♥Bites ^.~ wrote: "@Yzabel, agreed. And yet...


Paul wrote: "...I don't think it's any real coincidence that the OP and those "readers" who agreed with him/her are all listed on STGRB. It's also not a coincidence t..."

Yeah, I already stated why in my post.

Seeing Trina's behavior highlighted on STGRB, it would seem that my previous assessment wasn't far off the mark.

[Karma♥Bites ^.~]

Paul wrote: "Yeah, I already stated why in my post.

Seeing Trina's behavior highlighted on STGRB, it would seem that my previous assessment wasn't far off the mark."

Huh, funny that. I see no real analysis, assessment or backup in your post. Merely superficial/conclusory statements--one of which is clearly misguided. But do as you will & be happy!

(and btw, that would be TINA, not Trina)

ETA: Colour me shocked that you went trotting off to that site. Based on experiences of some others who cosied up to those folks, I'd say make sure that you wear your flea collar & your shots are up to date.

[[deleted user]]

Well, she's your pal, not mine.

[Shelby *trains flying monkeys*]

Paul wrote: "Karma♥Bites ^.~ wrote: "@Yzabel, agreed. And yet...


Paul wrote: "...I don't think it's any real coincidence that the OP and those "readers" who agreed with him/her are all listed on STGRB. It's ..."

Paul really??? It couldn't be that people marked your books as offensive because you called a woman an offensive name?
Nah of course not. You are above that aren't you?

Nenia spoke up for readers-so of course you pointed out that she has been picked on by the stupid site.

Really great reasoning.

[Max]

Yes Paul - one sure way of making sure the innocent bystanders here would see that so-called hate group was to publicise it here. Of course I had to take a look. It was a real eye opener to see the screenshot where Anne Rice (not an SPA of course) managed to get 1 star ratings on every single one of her books from one particular reader "who needs protecting from bullying authors". Now it may just be that the particular reader doesn't like Anne Rice or enjoy vampire books, but if so, why keep reading her books if you don't like them? Or is this person rating WITHOUT reading just to punish Anne Rice for something?

[[deleted user]]

Shelby wrote: "Paul wrote: "Karma♥Bites ^.~ wrote: "@Yzabel, agreed. And yet...


Paul wrote: "...I don't think it's any real coincidence that the OP and those "readers" who agreed with him/her are all listed on..."

You can shelve my book under whatever title you please, but to rate it without reading it is disingenuous.

[Karma♥Bites ^.~]

Max wrote: "Yes Paul - one sure way of making sure the innocent bystanders here would see that so-called hate group was to publicise it here. Of course I had to take a look. It was a real eye opener to see the screenshot where Anne Rice (not an SPA of course) managed to get 1 star ratings on every single one of her books from one particular reader "who needs protecting from bullying authors". Now it may just be that the particular reader doesn't like Anne Rice or enjoy vampire books, but if so, why keep reading her books if you don't like them? Or is this person rating WITHOUT reading just to punish Anne Rice for something?"

I was (am?) a huge fan of Anne Rice's earlier works. So I was disappointed to learn of her behaviour over the years. 'Twas a good thing that I had stopped reading her books by then.

How Not to Respond to Negative Reviews: The Anne Rice Edition

[D.C.]

Paul wrote: "Shelby wrote: "Paul wrote: "Karma♥Bites ^.~ wrote: "@Yzabel, agreed. And yet...


Paul wrote: "...I don't think it's any real coincidence that the OP and those "readers" who agreed with him/her ar..."
Now I know I don't want to read your books, and I don't judge books by their authors. I've met a number of people who write wonderful books but are jerks. I doubt any of them misuse the word disingenuous, however.

When someone rates one of your books without having read it they are NOT being dishonest by pretending to know less about something than they actually do.

[Bonnie]

Daniel wrote: "I have posted that to voice annoyance at a review is ridiculous, I have also pointed out that editing, proof reading and beta reading are all very important and have even started a group for author..."

Very well said.

[Bonnie]

Paul wrote: "Karma♥Bites ^.~ wrote: "Yzabel wrote: "..It was a beautifully ironic "opportunity" in such a thread... for about one page. Now the thread's tanked, and shall probably contribute to finding oil if w..."

What's STGRB?

This is all new to me. I was traditionally published for several years and am now self publishing as well. I realized I have too many things I want to write to wait 3-4 years for each book to come out.

[Debbie's Spurts (D.A.)]

[deleted by user; leaving this comment just as a courtesy placeholder.]

[D.C.]

D.A. - Please don't mock bully victims. wrote: "I suppose he gets some credit for not shouting the usual "fake" or "fraudulent" reviews or insisting no one is allowed to rate his books without reviewing.

But "erroneous" sounds like the reader..."

I didn't catch the "erroneous". Frankly, I'm not paying all that much attention to what he has been saying, since he's already proven he's a misogynist who does not know how to behave in polite company.

I did notice the "disingenuous". I used it yesterday, and I figure he wanted to try out his shiny new word. Careful writers look up words they are not 100% familiar with, so they can use them correctly.

I'm having trouble imagining that the "erroneous" reviews are accidental, so I suspect he won't have much luck getting GR to remove them. I'd complain if I thought he was likely to have any success, but all he's likely to do is waste his own time and annoy GR staff.

You could argue that his use of "erroneous" is "disingenuous."

[Debbie's Spurts (D.A.)]

[deleted by user; leaving this comment just as a courtesy placeholder.]

[D.C.]

D.A. - Please don't mock bully victims. wrote: "I think I'm finding some new writers here myself. Not as much because they are agreeing or disagreeing with readers (or even knowing what is marketing, fake , drama llama or what opinions are real..."

I'm never, ever insulted if someone does not want to read my books. I'm not even insulted if I'm one of the writers you want to steer clear of. If everyone liked the same thing there would be three books published a year.

[[deleted user]]

D.C. wrote: "Paul wrote: "Shelby wrote: "Paul wrote: "Karma♥Bites ^.~ wrote: "@Yzabel, agreed. And yet...


Paul wrote: "...I don't think it's any real coincidence that the OP and those "readers" who agreed wi..."

The word can also mean not being sincere. Then again, you think the word cunt is a racial slur... so there's that.

And it is erroneous or wrong to rate a book that you haven't read. No reader worth their salt does that. I have gotten into a few heated debates with writers on this site I never attacked their page or down voted their books.

[Yzabel]

D.A. - Please don't mock bully victims. wrote: "[...]I know the authors posting here aren't representatives from some collective group of SPA any more than one small business owner represents another -- but, do any of you think it is okay that Paul feels he can call reviews/ratings he doesn't like "erroneous" and try to get goodreads to remove them?[...]"

No, it's not OK. On the other hand, neither are 1-star "retaliation" ratings.
(For the record, I'm not accusing people in this thread from giving some—to Paul or to anyone else. I'm just bouncing on something that had been mentioned in the first pages of this thread: the "fear" of such reviews given by bad-behaving authors, their fan base, their sock-puppet accounts, etc. It has been done, and it'll still be done in the future.)
Which is an egg-and-chicken problem the source of which I don't know. I don't know what came first: people giving such silly ratings to show they didn't like how an author behaved, or authors behaving so badly that people started doing this to show they didn't appreciate it.

Both are crap behaviours in my opinion. Only it's not so easy to sort the "honest, didn't-like-the-book" ratings from the "here's a 1-star just because you said something I didn't like".

[Max]

D.C. wrote: "If everyone liked the same thing there would be three books published a year. "

You are so very right!



Paul wrote: "And it is erroneous or wrong to rate a book that you haven't read. No reader worth their salt does that. I have gotten into a few heated debates with writers on this site I never attacked their page or down voted their books "



If people here decide they don't want to read someone's book because he behaved "badly" in some way, that is their prerogative. However to drive by his books to discourage other people reading them is not serving readers' best interests. They could be really good books actually. That behaviour is akin to book burning - someone is not politically correct so let's stop everyone seeing for themselves. Bad form!

But where are all the other writers? I ask because I am genuinely interested. Surely they have more invested in this topic? Are they absent because they are busy writing, or because they agree with the OP, or because they disagree with the OP (and friends) and are worried about saying so publicly?

[Shannon]

Where am I? Usually I'm not around to see it or I'm late to the party. If I don't see it, I can't really help. If I'm late, a lot of the time I can't help either. When a discussion/argument gets to a certain point, there's no salvaging it. If I try to jump in to help so late into the issue, I'm either ignored or there is just so much animosity, there's nothing my words can do.

I was late coming into this discussion because of real life taking up my time. I saw the discussion when it was a page and a half long but had to go off to work. 9 hours later when I got back home there was 6 pages and at some point it had been derailed. Why didn't I jump in right then? Real life duties kept me from doing anything, not that I was sure what to do at the time. Yes, I'll admit that. Coming up with a good post that won't fuel the fire takes time and when you come in so late, thinking up a good post is even harder (that's not to say this post will be good either. I just can't sit here and not say at least something, even if I'm not heard or no one cares what I have to say.)

As you can see, one post, one person, can derail a good thread. That's all it takes and unless people handle it right (readers or writers) it can either be fixed, or go down hill just like it has in this thread and many many others. It's never just one person's fault either and there is a point in that. People are so quick to point fingers that finger pointing becomes the most potent fuel for the fire.

As rare as it is that I see attacks, whether it be an author attacking a reader, reader attacking an author, or even a reader attacking a reader, I try to help diffuse the argument but many time the damage has already been done, and nothing that is said can fix the problem. I don't attack my readers. I could never imagine ever doing something so horrible. I've gotten low review scores on my book and I just smile and nod. My readers owe me nothing. They choose to take a chance on my book and I'm just grateful for that. If they didn't like it, then that's how it is. I'd be disappointed they weren't able to enjoy it, but hating them isn't the way to go and I wish other authors, other people in general, could see this. Everyone has an opinion. It doesn't have to be the same as someone's but it's hard getting others to accept that. You can tell others to not attack each other for their opinion, not take something to heart, tell them they need a hick skin to be part of this industry, etc…, until you're blue in the face, but that doesn't mean they'll listen. You can lead a horse, right?

Your question is a valid one. But asking it to a small group of authors won't guarantee to give you the answer you're seeking. We're just 1%(guessing that of course) of the entire population of the entire SP industry. Some of us will agree with you, some won't, as if life. Those of us who care about our readers can try when we can, but sometimes it doesn't help, as much as we wish it would.

(I'm hoping this post makes some sense. I'm not always good at getting a point at across, especially in these kinds of threads of this size. It's just not something I've been good at, which is another reason I have a hard time helping. There's just something we're not good at no matter how much we wish we were.)

[D.C.]

Paul wrote: "D.C. wrote: "Paul wrote: "Shelby wrote: "Paul wrote: "Karma♥Bites ^.~ wrote: "@Yzabel, agreed. And yet...


Paul wrote: "...I don't think it's any real coincidence that the OP and those "readers" ..."
It can mean insincere, but there is a connotation of false pretense of innocence again. Check your Merriam Webster. Not racist, misogynistic, and comparable in power to many racist and homophobic epithets.

[D.C.]

Paul wrote: "D.C. wrote: "Paul wrote: "Shelby wrote: "Paul wrote: "Karma♥Bites ^.~ wrote: "@Yzabel, agreed. And yet...


Paul wrote: "...I don't think it's any real coincidence that the OP and those "readers" ..."

And it would be "erroneous" if it were done in error. I'm quite sure it's deliberate. It's not a behavior I admire and I don't do it, but it's not wrong under your GR TOS. Using abusive language is.

[[deleted user]]

D.C. wrote: "Paul wrote: "D.C. wrote: "Paul wrote: "Shelby wrote: "Paul wrote: "Karma♥Bites ^.~ wrote: "@Yzabel, agreed. And yet...


Paul wrote: "...I don't think it's any real coincidence that the OP and tho..."

Let's try using it in a sentence, shall we?

http://sentence.yourdictionary.com/di...

Now that we've cleared that up...

When I call my male friends cunts, is that being misogynistic?

You're just being dramatic because you don't like word, and that's fine, but be honest about it your level of distaste without making it out to be something that it's not.

[R.F.G.]

D.A. - Please don't mock bully victims. wrote: "I think I'm finding some new writers here myself. Not as much because they are agreeing or disagreeing with readers (or even knowing what is marketing, fake , drama llama or what opinions are real..."

I hope you've found some interesting reading material.

As for the reactions of some, well it's been interesting reading to say the least.

Oh well, back to pounding my keyboard into submission, I have projects to finish while my daughter is still at the eat, sleep, and mess the diaper stage, which won't last much longer.