Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion
III. Goodreads Readers
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If you want readers, why aren't you defending them?
We're not exactly a self-governing community. Other than encourage writers not to respond reviews, I don't know what I can do to protect readers. If people on both sides would just have a little respect, it wouldn't be an issue. I personally haven't had any problems as a writer or as a reader.
I think this will all work itself out eventually. Those authors putting out sub-standard work and behaving unprofessionally--especially those attacking readers whose opinions don't support their delusions of grandeur--will be recognized, blacklisted, and ultimately forgotten. Whenever you have a market this big, you're going to have more crap than gems. Look at television. We now have 10,000 channels running 24 hours a day. Obviously, you can't fill all that air time with quality programming. But it all goes on the air anyway.
I also think of it like this: The publishing industry is going through a tumultuous time. It's like a new volcano has just broken free from the earth and is spitting lava and hot ash all over everything. These are growing pains, the fires of change. Eventually the volcano will quiet down, mass destruction will settle, and new growth will spring from the fertile ashen soil. Eventually. For now, watch out for hot lava.
This is interesting. As a self-published author, my only defense is "I didn't know." I don't read through other reviews, looking for replies from the author to diss out their reactions, and I've never seen the site you speak of. I have never been angry at a reader for their criticisms, and I hope that, as my career progresses, I will be able to maintain that perspective.As for the basic idea, that readers need to do "more" for the authors...aren't the readers paying us? That's what this is, right? I mean, reviews are great, but, inherently, they are a service for the consumers, not the producers. Readers should be treated like the intelligent, unique, opinionated beings they are and allowed to express their viewpoints - or not, if that is their wish.
If someone is making it their mission to destroy an author - and I don't know what that would look like - then a response may be war rented. Otherwise...
R.A. wrote: "If people on both sides would just have a little respect, it wouldn't be an issue."I respect your opinion, however I think you are mistaken on this point. I have often done nothing more than write a negative review to warrant being attacked. One particular review I'm thinking of was quite critical, but I used actual quotes from the book to back up my opinion. Yet the author insisted on attacking me on my blog for several days to tell me how wrong I was and to try and make me look like an idiot. I was respectful, he was not. And that is often how these things start.
I think if you got told at least once a week for over a year that you were too stupid to understand, jealous of all their success, a failed writer who's bitter, too emotional and womanly to really understand the book...all because you wrote a review, I think you'd see SPAs in general a little bit bitterly too.
Where I am? I'm in those threads you mention, defending the right of readers to publish the ratings/reviews they want, and condemning the crap artists who perpetuate the stigma of self-publishing by publishing prematurely.And I don't do that so you will give me a chance to prove them wrong. I do it because I dislike being considered a 'peer' to crap artists.
Basically, authors enter into self-publishing for different reasons:
- some have been previously published and are now self-publishing their out-of-print backlist
- some have perused the contracts publishers try to give them and decide they prefer to do it on their own
- some can't get through to publishing houses because their work lacks the commercial mass appeal sought after by the publishing houses
And then there is a huge group of 'authors' (and I use the term tentatively) who think they can publish their drivel without ever trying to work on their craft, because they are under the illusion that their story doesn't need editing and polishing. And these 'authors' are the ones who will scream the loudest when someone deigns to give them anything less than 5 stars just for showing up.
Jason wrote: "I mean, reviews are great, but, inherently, they are a service for the consumers, not the producers. "Very beautifully put Jason. That is exactly what it is. Readers are giving money and time to a product that is entirely separate from the author of that product.
J.D. wrote: "I think this will all work itself out eventually. Those authors putting out sub-standard work and behaving unprofessionally--especially those attacking readers whose opinions don't support their delusions of grandeur--will be recognized, blacklisted, and ultimately forgotten."I only see this happening if no new humans are born into the world.
Jason wrote: "This is interesting. As a self-published author, my only defense is "I didn't know." I don't read through other reviews, looking for replies from the author to diss out their reactions, and I've ne..."
I agree with Jason on this one. As an author I feel that I have absolutely NO control on what others self-publish. Only the readers (and buyers) have that power. Screen carefully and try not to buy trash. And if you give a negative review and the author comes back and screams at you, I think everyone can see who the real idiot is, and no real harm is done to you. On the other hand, if I defend a reviewer against such an attack, and that author has a lot of on-line friends, they can all attack my work with a flood of negative reviews and you, as the reader, won't buy my work because of the many bad reviews. Readers shouldn't care what anyone says in response to reviews; they can't harm you. For authors, it could be a lose-lose situation.
I agree with Jason on this one. As an author I feel that I have absolutely NO control on what others self-publish. Only the readers (and buyers) have that power. Screen carefully and try not to buy trash. And if you give a negative review and the author comes back and screams at you, I think everyone can see who the real idiot is, and no real harm is done to you. On the other hand, if I defend a reviewer against such an attack, and that author has a lot of on-line friends, they can all attack my work with a flood of negative reviews and you, as the reader, won't buy my work because of the many bad reviews. Readers shouldn't care what anyone says in response to reviews; they can't harm you. For authors, it could be a lose-lose situation.
Linda wrote: "It's already a lose-lose situation, Ken. And you've just lost. You're more worried about your own sales, your own hide, than about...""
Well of course I disagree. It happens. And you know it happens. And as I said, authors, and I mean individual authors, have NO power over this industry. You have to band together, form a group. That is being done, but slowly...
Well of course I disagree. It happens. And you know it happens. And as I said, authors, and I mean individual authors, have NO power over this industry. You have to band together, form a group. That is being done, but slowly...
As far as I'm concerned, Ken and Jason are right. I can only control me and advise people to do the right thing. I don't know anything about a site for ranters, and I wouldn't go there if I did. Just like I stay away from writers and reviewers who spew venom, and build relationships with respectable people on both sides. Readers should not have to sort through garbage, and they don't have to. They can go to the best seller list or they can go to respectable review sites (check out theindieview for a listing) to look for good reads. If writers complain too much, click to the next screen. That's what I do.
Then again, I don't go to the review sites either, so what do I know? When I give a bad review it's usually on Amazon, or other sites where we're all anonymous. On sites where I can be identified I leave a review only for books I like.
Martyn V. wrote: "Where I am? I'm in those threads you mention, defending the right of readers to publish the ratings/reviews they want, and condemning the crap artists who perpetuate the stigma of self-publishing b..."I also defend the right of readers to rate and review however they please, and I feel strongly that responding to a review is extremely unprofessional, no matter what the reader may have said. About the only action that would be appropriate would be flagging a review IF the reviewer had resorted to either hate speech or personal attacks.
I do think there is a place for hobbyists in self-publishing, but not by passing off shoddily produced garbage as a professional product. And frankly, while I have seen things that would benefit enormously from a little care, some of the stuff out there is not salvageable. No degree of polishing, editing or voodoo is going to result in a readable product.
There is utterly no good reason why anyone should not write for their own pleasure, and if they wish to make it available to the public, and any of the public wants to read it, all well and good. However, if people say they don't like it, they are probably not being mean. They don't like it. They should be able to say they don't like it without fearing that the author is about to behave like a three-year-old.
If a lot of people don't like it, your work is probably not meeting a professional literary standard. This doesn't mean you're a bad person and it's not a personal attack, although some of the tantrums I've witnessed might make it hard to retain an objective opinion of the tantrum thrower. It doesn't even mean your work shouldn't be available.
Although what really gets me is authors who decide that reviews that say things like, "This is a great story, but it badly needs to be edited, or it's abrupt, or seems the writer is making up his or her own punctuation rules on the fly" are sour grapes, or personal attacks, instead of paying attention.
By the way, I didn't really go into self-publishing for any of those reasons. I was actively submitting and hoping to be traditionally published, not sure if that was going to be a possibility for me, and realized that KDP was a great outlet for some of my quirkier stuff.
This thread seems like 3 other ones which leaves me to ask, how many times can you beat a dead horse?
I suppose I can chime in on this, too. I have a slightly different take on things. I do try to write reviews on all the books I read - self-published or not. However, if I can't give the book a decent review, I don't publish the review. If it was a book I was asked to review and I didn't like it, then I send an email back to the author telling him/her why I didn't like the book and why I can't publish a review. If it is a book i went out and bought, then I just keep silent. As an SPA, i have gotten reviews for my books, but rarely do i solicit them. I do promote my books, but don't expect a review just because someone bought it. I have also given a few away (even here on Goodreads) for reviews, and have had mixed success with that process.
I think the bottom line for me is that I try to put out something that readers will enjoy, that is as free of grammar and spelling errors as possible, and that has been professionally edited. Whether the reader does like the books are a matter of opinion and I try to remember that.
To echo someone's comment from above, it is a tumultuous time in the publishing world. I think that literary Darwinism will win out and the strongest authors will survive and thrive and the rest will either perish or adapt.
I'm not sure my point was accurately made (and curse you, Autocorrect!), but I do not believe that I would ignore a blatantly flame-war on my doorstep. If, for instance, someone made an inflammatory comment in a forum I was following (like this one!), I would try to speak up. If others maligned a reader of mine for a critical review of my novel, likewise. I think, though, that the general consensus is that authors don't "stick their noses in" other author's business unless invited. Do I care about my readers? Yes. Do I want to provide them with the best experience and entertainment I can weave? Yes. Do I think that authors who flame readers for poor reviews are wrong? Yes. I also think that human trafficking is wrong, but I admit to not being on every anti-human trafficking site on the web.My point is - as stated, SPAs are not an organization (although many belong to one or more), and we're trying to spend our time writing. And, yes, marketing. An unfortunate necessity. I can't speak for everyone, but I hope this has helped put my POV into perspective.
Three,I was merely saying that this thread was like the other threads having to do with SPA's. I have no side to take or issue to make I was just stating the similarities.
No need to dig up old dirt.
I have not been to sites with the sole intent of allowing authors to attack reviewers. That said, honestly, it's not my job to go looking for places where readers are being attacked.Will I speak up if I see it happening? Sure. Have I been involved in conversations about the quality of SP novels and encouraged other SPAs to put out professional work? Yes. Have I encouraged authors not to respond to bad reviews? Yes. Will I continue to join in those conversations? Yes, of course.
I do not buy in to the "crap sinks, cream rises" mentality, because I think there's so much crap for the average reader to wade through that they never get to the top of the mess to find the cream. Not without serious hand-holding and word-of-mouth, at least.
But just like I don't expect readers to be out there trying to persuade more people to read SP books, I don't think it's fair to expect authors to dive into a fight that doesn't involve them.
Where am I >> Some place or other, picking my own battles, because let's be honest, I can't fight them all.Also, let's keep in mind that defending readers/reviewers/fellow SPAs is something that takes time, and we don't always have it. (I'm not talking "I need time to work on my own writing here". I mean "daily job" and various other RL issues.) Because this is exactly the kind of problem that demands extra-careful wording: if we don't spend time reflecting on "how am I going to respond to THAT attack on [insert reviewer/author/book here] so that trolls and rotten apples don't use my own words against me", we may very well cause more damage than good.
Of course, I'm not saying we shouldn't do it. Only that it takes time, and that as a result, nobody can be everywhere, fighting everyone's battles. I'll run my mouth to defend a reviewer or a fellow SPA (which I did recently, come to think of it, for a French author... just not on Goodreads), but I'm not going to scour the web all day long in search of trolls and behaviour-challenged authors. What I didn't see because I didn't happen to browse that particular page when the problem occurred, is something I can't intervene in.
Now, if everyone defends someone at some point, maybe it will end up in a snowball effect?
As a writer, I'll chime in and say this: all of the advice we're given cautions us to make sure our work is edited, that we get beta readers, and that we get professional book covers made. It's advice that I pass along myself to other writers. In fact, one thing I always tell them is to respect the reader and give them something to love. That being said, the SERIOUS writers are taking this advice, and I've seen it pushed more and harder in recent months on behalf of readers that are telling us there's too much shoddy work out there. Unfortunately, there are a great number of NOT SERIOUS writer's out there that don't take time to do the research and learn the craft like they should. And no matter how much they're cautioned not to skip steps, some believe their work is so brilliant that they don't need to do that. Of course, they're wrong, and then they get upset when they get poor reviews - or worse yet, no reviews at all because people don't finish reading the book and therefore, maybe give it a 1 star with no comment. This pisses me off both as a reader and a writer - it discredits writers by making us look like egotistical, selfish igits, and it disrespects readers by assuming we'll read any combination of letters and words thrown out there, whether they make up something sensible or not.
Unfortunately, the Internet has made self publishing so easy that lots of people are doing it - and it harkens to the old adage "just because you CAN do it doesn't mean you're SUPPOSED to." As both a reader and writer, I'll admit that there needs to be better quality control when it comes to self publishing. I just don't know what the answer is. Right now, we're depending on the slow/bad/no reviews from readers to weed out the ones that aren't "in it to win it." Maybe that will work, and maybe it won't. But I can say this as both a reader and a writer: reviews are extremely important, and the serious writers appreciate feedback from readers, because we like readers and often ARE readers.
I know I really didn't add anything here, except to tell you that I understand the frustration of poor quality books from the perspective of a reader and a writer, and I fully acknowledge that we have a problem here. I also want to let you know that writers that are serious about writing do care about readers, and don't want to attack them at all. We want to give you good, quality work. And yes, we need to find ways in self publishing to weed out the ones that just want to say "I published a book" and add it to their resume or bucket list.
wow...I have only gotten a few reviews on my novel and novella and they have been decent.
I hear over and over that self-publishing is dragging those writers who are putting out a carefully, objectively vetted product into the toilet.
I just feel. that yes time and tide will show which books will be read and the dross will eventually sink after the euphoria of being published has worn off and they have moved on to other projects.
I don't demand anything of the people out there who read my novel or who don't.
I firmly believe--just like an unknown author on a B&N shelf that I take my chances if I don't know their work---which may have nothing to do with grammar or editing---but the result is the same. The book didn't work for me and Ill probably pass them up next time I see their name. But it won't stop me from trying someone unknown again.
But defending readers. Well I suspect pretty much ALL of the SPA are readers---its our chosen field of endeavor after all.
I used to find this kind of thing on FanFiction.net where it got pretty nasty.
I'm old--I don't wade in to break up schoolyard fights any more. Readers can say what they want---readers who have vendettas are going to say/do what they want no matter if I defend their right and the right of other readers/reviewers to say as they chose.
I strive for a great product. I strive to keep myself challenged by my stories and hope that others will too.
The rest, for me...is a great deal of "sound and fury signifying nothing."
Like poorly written books, poor reviews and verbal fisticuffs will disappear.
And what remains will be interesting!
I no longer comment on negative reviews because I don't want to open up the opportunity for them to be attacked. I do keep an eye on them however, and on the one - one - instance that this individual was harassed for their opinion, I stepped in to defend the reviewer for her right to review as she pleased.I think it is the author's duty to make it clear that s/he respects the reviewer's right to review as they please. Otherwise, they run the risk of having their readers attacked for their opinions. I'm not saying that the author should police their reviewers but they definitely should make it clear that vigilantism on their behalf will not be well-received nor welcome.
But then, this shouldn't surprise you, Three. I'm looming around you enough as is. ;)
ThreeRs, I want to thank you for bringing this discussion up. While I may not have a lot of time or pull, I plan to do a blog post on this topic. You and Yzabel are right about one thing - it's not about solving the problem, it's about being PART of the solution. Thanks!
ThreeRs (Got Logic?) wrote: "But this fight does involve you. I honestly don't understand how you think it doesn't. Do you not realize that every time an SPA attacks a reader, it makes SPAs look bad? That every time an SPA argues for the right to post unedited, incoherent crap, it makes SPAs look bad?"I said I do speak up when I see it happening. What I said I'm not going to do is go looking for fights elsewhere. If other people want to spend their time doing that, hey, more power to them.
I am an SPA because I gave up trying to write something that an agent would look at in these troubled times, my heart is just not in that style of writing. So I will write my weird literary fiction, but I only decided to explore self-publishing in September. I have been shocked at what I have encountered from both sides of the author community, both those who beg "review my book" to improve discoverability and those who boast about how much they spend on editing in order to drive out the competition and improve their discoverabilty (my European socialist leanings are showing). Of course, as a literary fiction writer it is easy for me to sit on the sidelines as "conforming to the rules of the genre" and "writing that keeps the action going along at a steady pace" are irrelevancies from my perspective. OTOH, style and grammar are of paramount importance, so much so that I expect an author to have those right before it goes to an editor, which is why I gave up the Da Vinci Code before the bottom of the first page.
Previously, I read almost exclusively trade published novels, but recently finished my first self-published read. It had an editor, but was very disappointing with the murder victim changing name during the novel. I will write a review and rate it low, but only on my own website (which feeds onto my Goodreads author page). Note that I have yet to read a review mentioning the poor editing.
I refuse to get involved in reader reviewing because I think that authors should stay away from them to avoid the accusation of supporting their colleagues or attacking their competition. I do not even rate books on sites like Goodreads. As I leave the reviewing field to non-writing readers, I am not going to enter the fray of a argument with a non-thinking writer. If they are a bully, they are hardly going to listen to me, other than when they read what reviews I post on my own site and turn their bullying in my direction. So I will help readers by making myself a target, but not by trolling the trolls (especially as trolls are such cute Norwegian creatures).
Amanda wrote: "I use Goodreads strictly as a reader. I am also a writer but I've made the decision to use this site for personal reasons. I didn't know about any site dedicated to bash readers and it burns me up ..."I agree. If I see someone on my flist reading a book by a reader-basher, I also drop them a warning and let them know what they're in for.
Ok, I am going to wade in and probably get flamed. A) this is the internet no one controls what goes on other than the Mods, site owners etc. I can back readers up. I can back authors up. I can say anything. But it will not stop the trolls from doing what they want.
B) If people are making attacks on you in RL call the cops. have them put in jail. There are cyber stalking laws and physical stalking laws out there for your protection.
C) the "why don't people read more SPAs" threads are designed for SPAs to learn how to get people to read their books.
D) You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. We can provide all the guidance in the world on getting professional editing, waiting to push the publish button, etc but unless the person wants to change they will not. Tell an alcoholic to quit drinking it is going to kill them and see what they say.
E) I do not respond to reviews. It is unprofessional. I will tell someone not to respond to them also. BUT to most people their book is their baby and how far would you go to protect a child. Don't get me wrong I am not supporting their actions.
F) How many adults out there act like adults. I work in healthcare and see more adults act like kids than grown-ups.
So that is my 2 cents. Flame away.
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ThreeRs (Got Logic?) wrote: "R.A. wrote: "As far as I'm concerned, Ken and Jason are right. I can only control me and advise people to do the right thing. I don't know anything about a site for ranters, and I wouldn't go there..."I'm not complaining. I do, as I've said, discourage writers from responding to reviews when I have the chance, and I behave as professionally as I know how. I don't have any idea what threads or sites you're talking about, and if I did, I would cancel my membership to those threads because who needs all that, anyway? I don't know why readers go to reader-bashing sites, but I totally understand if a reader is upset by a true stalker. My thought is that said reader should inform her boss and possibly the police. In this case, I believe the best thing I can do is be a positive example of not whining and griping about what other people do. It just keeps throwing logs on that fire. That said, I can't imagine that I'll be posting on this thread again, unless something just really strikes me as funny.
@D.A.: I think it's more like some people are special snowflakes who think that everything they write is five-star-worthy and this delusion is so deeply rooted, and so ingrained into their psyche, that anything less than four stars is clearly a personal attack because how could it be True? *cue lightning flash*
D.A. - Please don't mock bully victims. wrote: "ThreeRs (Got Logic?) wrote: "She is now claiming that she's the victim of "a cyber-bully gang-bang" for "asking a question". Which isn't what happened by any stretch of the imagination..."Punchli..."
I was not trying to be dismissive and I am deeply sorry if it came over that way. I was just mentioning a possible solution. Cyber stalking laws are evolving in states all over the US. I am sorry to all the reviewers it has happened to.
In response, my letter C is probably a dream as to what the thread started as instead of the thing it has become. Many of us have tried to make it about improving but you are correct any many people use it for a "poor me" soapbox.
I try to be a good vocal but like everything else The loudest in the group usually aren't the smartest.
Oh and BTW thanks for starting this thread.
"ThreeRs (Got Logic?) wrote: "If you won't speak up, you have no one to blame if you can't find an audience. Or at least you can't blame readers. "Any writer who blames readers for not reading their book should seek a new career. The reality is that the complaint is that writers are disappointed that discoverability is not as easy to achieve as the self-help book marketing book they bought implied. You know, the ones that are bestsellers, written by someone whose only expertise is marketing self-help books to writers and who knows Bo Diddley about marketing to readers. It is particularly galling for those who get takers for the review my book plug and do not get the 5 star treatment.
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I agree. The fact that it exists and the fact that so many sites are tolerating double-standards for readers versus authors because of the cash flow is revolting.
On Twitter the whole world plus all its aunties and uncles and cousins are authors. Not many readers it seems! Yet where would anyone be without readers? The true readers matter because without them there would be very few books. Authors are also readers, but they may not always look for the same things in a story, their focus may be more technical. Readers should be cherished and if they don't like what an author has produced, that is a normal consequence of taste and diversity. Some people,myself included, love cool jazz like early Miles Davis, others hate it but enjoy rap. There is no right or wrong in taste, choice and enjoyment of music and the same goes for literature.
Stepping back and allowing readers to like, dislike and discuss what they read is only common sense. Producing the best book we can is a much more constructive exercise than attacking readers surely.
ThreeRs (Got Logic?) wrote: "Apparently it's crazy to suggest that when so many of you have expressed upset when readers give up on self-publishing, maybe you should be willing to do something about it."Several authors have told you, in this thread, that when they see it, they do speak up. Is it crazy to ask you not to ignore those statements from people engaging in this thread with you?
Painting all readers or all SPAs or saying things like every time X happens, the result is Y, is neither accurate nor true.
Being lumped into a group that doesn't include me, and then being expected to make up for and/or apologize for things I'm, you know, not guilty of, does not make me want to try to work to resolve any sort of issue. I mean, if I'm going to be blamed for doing nothing, regardless of what my actual response might be, then...
J.T. wrote: "...I was not trying to be dismissive and I am deeply sorry if it came over that way. I was just mentioning a possible solution..."We're fine J.T. I was just responding to one of Three Rs examples to point out that the author saying she was being cyber-stalked, bullied and gang banged only had one negative review.
ThreeRs (Got Logic?) wrote: "Quite honestly I started this thread largely because I was appalled that someone on the KDP forum spoke at length about "celebrating mediocrity" and was applauded for it. "I participated in that thread. There were more than one of us speaking out against "celebrating mediocrity". I don't blame you for not reading the whole thread as threads on that topic do tend to get ugly pretty quickly. And, sadly, yes, those of us who argued against the notion of letting SPAs fling their work at the wall to see what sticks were in the minority. We were/are there, though.
There are definitely two (at least) schools of thought about how SPA should be doing things, but don't be discouraged. There really are a whole lot of us who want to do it right.
Look up Chuck Wendig's blog. Whether you agree completely with him or not, you will find that, there, the balance of opinion swings heavily the other way, toward -not- encouraging mediocrity.
It all depends on the audience at any given site.
What did they mean by celebrating mediocrity? >_>
Nenia wrote: "What did they mean by celebrating mediocrity? >_>"Letting SPA publish what they like, as they see fit to do it, even if that's a first draft with formatting, spelling and grammatical errors, because the only way SPAs will learn to improve is by getting feedback from readers.
Basically, letting SPA publish so readers can pay for the "privilege" to be beta readers and a critique group.
As someone else here pointed out, the real problem is not that hobbyists are having fun putting out often mediocre or worse books for the general public to have access to, but that there is no way to separate them from the pros. And there is a significant minority of them who don't seem to understand professional behavior or why it's necessary.There probably are a handful of talented people out there who do not know how to behave like professional adults, but the overwhelming majority of the badly behaved are not writing very good prose. Writing is hard. Rewriting is harder. Meaningful editing is a pain in the butt. And one thing that many, many aspiring writers don't seem to get is that a good idea doesn't necessarily make a good book. Really talented writers can actually spin something wonderful from something slight, or kind of lame, or woefully hackneyed.
S.L. wrote: "Nenia wrote: "What did they mean by celebrating mediocrity? >_>"Letting SPA publish what they like, as they see fit to do it, even if that's a first draft with formatting, spelling and grammatica..."
Wtf.
ThreeRs (Got Logic?) wrote: "Quite honestly I started this thread largely because I was appalled that someone on the KDP forum spoke at length about "celebrating mediocrity" and was applauded for it. Not just by other "unknow..."I've seen the Howey comments you're referring to, and I don't agree with that sentiment. If you're a hobbyist writer, write a blog or get some copies printed of your book and give them away to family and friends as presents. If you expect someone to pay money for your book, then you better do your best to put out a professional product.
I suspect we're arguing semantics here, Three. To my understanding of the word, an argument can't involve me unless I'm actively participating. Impact me? Yes, of course. I don't need to be present for the fallout to do me either harm or good, but that's not the same thing as involvement. IMO.And you did ask in your OP, So if readers aren't supposed to believe you're all like this, where are you?
That, to me, implies that you're expecting SPAs to be out policing the internet for wherever these authors behaving badly might crop up.
You've clarified your point, though, so I understand better.
So yes, if you're asking me to care about the impact this behavior has on me, my answer is that I do. And yes, we should care about the impact on our careers. Agreed.
Richard wrote: "Nenia wrote: What did they mean by celebrating mediocrity?Good question... Maybe stuff like this...?"
How on earth does she have 10+ books over 100,000 words long? O_O
Richard wrote: "Nenia wrote: What did they mean by celebrating mediocrity?Good question... Maybe stuff like this...?"
I wouldn't call that mediocrity, really. That's the publishing equivalent of some tin-foil hat-wearing loon stapling their nonsensical screeds on a kiosk on some big city college campus. But I get your point.
That's a bit harsh. It's probably some high school kid who's making the transition from fanfiction. Looking back on some of my old crap makes me want to bury my head in the sand in shame. Of course, I still feel that way about my work- but in this case, more so. :P
Nenia wrote: "That's a bit harsh. It's probably some high school kid who's making the transition from fanfiction. Looking back on some of my old crap makes me want to bury my head in the sand in shame. Of course..."Perhaps, a bit harsh, admittedly. I was just trying to say this was an outlier, not an example of mediocrity. I'd be willing to be that this person just doesn't know any better. The problem lies with those who should know better, the folks who rush to publish as soon as their zero draft is finished.
Goodreads Authors/Readers
Books mentioned in this topic
Simple Jess (other topics)Infinite Jest (other topics)
A Prayer for Owen Meany (other topics)
The Star Of Jolanest: Tales From Tamara (other topics)
Pogo (other topics)
I completely agree with both posts so far. I do read SP books. I do take requests from SPAs for review. Some of the books I've read have been good, most have been awful.
Why is it my job to wade through thousands of unedited pieces of garbage that are barely readable to find your "gem"? It is way easier for me to just buy the latest NYT bestseller, at least the grammar will be correct.
When I accept a SP book an then write a very thorough but critical review, where are the other authors I've supported when that particular author attacks me publicly?
Why do you not condemn other SPAs who think it is perfectly acceptable to release pieces of crap because the reviews will help them improve? Don't you think that is incredibly deceitful to trick readers into thinking they are buying a finished work when they are spending their money to be a beta reader? If you do think so then why not say something?
The onus for improving the image of the SPA is not the reader, nor is it the inevitable portion who earned the bad image in the first place. It is your responsibility. Every SPA who values readers as more than just a quick buck or a quick review (but only a good one, or else watch out!). If you want SPAs to be taken seriously, show us that we should risk it by being serious about these issues. No one is going to do it for you. Be different, stand up, speak out, do it right, and show readers why at least one SPA is a good egg in the carton. But until then, most of my interactions are negative and so therefore there won't be many of them.