Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

428 views
Bulletin Board > The Problem with Self-Published Books...

Comments Showing 51-100 of 223 (223 new)    post a comment »

message 51: by Penny (new)

Penny Ross | 26 comments Jen,
This sounds like a worthwhile project, thank you for supporting indie authors and for your enthusiasm! I would be honoured if you would consider my books.

My published titles are:
Bird of Paradise Drums Beating,
Mrs. Muggles Learns to Read,
Cave of Journeys.
My 4th is titled Stolen Spirits and should be out in February.

Thank you Jen!


message 52: by Judy (last edited Jan 06, 2014 03:12PM) (new)

Judy Goodwin | 136 comments Emma, you might want to go back and read the ENTIRE thread before getting offended. Jen didn't start the discussion but is offering an interesting solution.

Whoops, she did start this one. But the original discussion about this topic started over here.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...


message 53: by Arabella (new)

Arabella Thorne (arabella_thornejunocom) | 354 comments This is a very interesting idea.
I have done the 'read my book, I'll read yours ' and will put a review up on Amazon...
I won't do it again! What I read was very very discouraging and one review I received read as if they hadn 't read the book at all which was very disheartening when I made an effort and read theirs.
So go ahead and vet. Seriously I think readers would be happy to know several a pair of eyes have looked at the book and find it decent.
And perhaps, this would slow down the nasty reviews people seem to enjoy slinging at indie authors on Amazon....

So, if you have room I'd like to toss in The Elf Lord's Revenge and/or my novella I Swear My Roommate Is a Vampire"


message 54: by Jen (new)

Jen Warren | 446 comments Emma wrote: "Wow.

Thanks for the supoprt. I'm so glad that you don't give a damn that some people are tyrying to get others to read and enjoy their writing, even if it's bad. I can't try to spread some writi..."


I titled my topic for a specific reason: to get attention. I need other readers, as well as self-published writers, to read this post if I am to be successful in my endeavor.

Self publishing has a bad reputation for a lot of reasons--some valid, some not. In gathering a list of books with a quality comparable to traditionally published titles, I thought I could steer readers toward indie authors for the benefit of both.

I apologize if my tone has offended you, and would like to offer my reassurance that I will not be screening your work. Overly sensitive authors are another reason some readers are reluctant to read and review indies. Only those confident enough to accept criticism should pitch their novels here.


message 55: by Jen (new)

Jen Warren | 446 comments Penny wrote: "Jen,
This sounds like a worthwhile project, thank you for supporting indie authors and for your enthusiasm! I would be honoured if you would consider my books.

My published titles are:
[book:Bir..."


Thanks, Penny! I'm adding you to my list!


message 56: by Lisa (new)

Lisa Marie Gabriel (lisamariegabriel) | 207 comments @Jen,

I would be happy to review horror, scifi and fantasy, LGBT, memoir, literary fiction, paranormal, spiritual, cats... definitely cats! :) I am less keen on Christian Romance, urban and YA though....


message 57: by Jen (new)

Jen Warren | 446 comments Lisa wrote: "@Jen,

I would be happy to review horror, scifi and fantasy, LGBT, memoir, literary fiction, paranormal, spiritual, cats... definitely cats! :) I am less keen on Christian Romance, urban and YA tho..."


Lisa, thanks for participating. I'll message you when I have some titles!


message 58: by T.C. (new)

T.C. Filburn (tcfilburn) | 98 comments This is a great idea, and thank you for trying to do something positive. Honest reviews aren't necessarily easy to come by, and I'm always very wary of the usual suggestions for 'mutual exchanges' and the like (and even more so of 'paid reviews', obviously!). As an author, what I'm most interested in is getting genuine feedback, and as a reader I want to know that that's what I'm getting when I read reviews of books I'm considering reading (which isn't always the case, as we know) - this idea sounds ideal.

I'd certainly be interested in putting my work up for consideration and possible review:
Martifius: The Wizard of the Eastwood
Christmas by Misadventure


message 59: by Emma (new)

Emma (rpblcofletters) Jen wrote......."

It's not that I don't like criticism (because it's often given to me in a multitude of forms - including those that are meant to be offensive). I'm a violinist and a pianist and I know that you can't be perfect and the only way to get better is by finding out what you do wrong - just ask my violin teacher - he'll drag on with fifty different things that I did wrong in just five measures: 'you hold your bow wrong; your phrasing is wrong; your vibrato is too romantic-era, this is Mozart; etc...'. And it's not that I'm not confident - I am come scoglio. It's just that when you title something "the problem with self-publishing" it's kind of offensive (and yes, it did catch my attention)... I'll stop now. I don't want to be a hypocrite and start offending you.

Good luck with your project. If you do chose to read my book, I encourage you, CRITICIZE ALL YOU WANT!! :)


message 60: by Gary (new)

Gary Tenuta (code9) | 19 comments Interesting idea you've proposed here. I suspect you're going to be buried alive in an avalanche of requests and I'm not above helping to bury you. LOL So here goes: The title I'm submitting is Ash: Return Of The Beast.

FACT: Soon after the 1947 death and cremation of Aleister "The Beast" Crowley, history's most notorious occultist, the urn containing his ashes mysteriously disappeared.

Now, more than 60 years later, the urn has resurfaced and Seattle's clergymen are suddenly dying... one at a time... exactly 9 days apart.

This is the most bizarre serial killer case that has ever landed on the desk of Seattle Police Detective, Brian Kane. It's so bizarre that FBI Special Agent Rowena Ravenwood knows Kane will never solve it without her expert assistance. Her expertise is in realms of reality that Detective Kane thought only existed in B-grade movies. He's in for a very rude awakening. And what about his own dark and deeply personal connection to the case? How long can he keep it a secret?

The future of the entire human race hangs in the balance. The clues to help solve the case are in desperately short supply and so is the amount of time before all Hell breaks loose. And, according to Special Agent Ravenwood, that's not just a figure of speech.

KINDLE (U.S.) $2.99 - http://amzn.com/B006J6HRGE

KINDLE (U.K.) £1.86 http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B006J6HRGE

PAPERBACK (U.S.) $12.30 - http://amzn.com/1478314192

PAPERBACK (U.K.) £9.95 - http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1478314192

Ash Return of the Beast by Gary Val Tenuta


message 61: by R.A. (new)

R.A. White (rawhite) | 361 comments Jen wrote: "Emma wrote: "Wow.

Thanks for the supoprt. I'm so glad that you don't give a damn that some people are tyrying to get others to read and enjoy their writing, even if it's bad. I can't try to spre..."


You are so right! Way to handle things. I know quite a few people on this site who don't read/review indie authors anymore because people are easily offended and can't see what other people see. Would it hurt my feelings if someone hated my book? Maybe. Would I lash out with defensive sarcasm? Nope. The fact is that most indie books are below my standards. Maybe even mine would be if I hadn't written it. How can I know? I don't get offended when people make comments about indie authors, I just hope I don't contribute to their negative opinions.


message 62: by Emma (new)

Emma (rpblcofletters) R.A. wrote: "Jen wrote: "Emma wrote: "Wow.

Thanks for the support. I'm so glad that you don't give a damn that some people are trying to get others to read and enjoy their writing, even if it's bad. I can't..."


Sorry again... I had a bad-ish day. (Ugh) People often make general statements that completely offend me - for example, 'opera is fat ladies with viking hats screaming on stage'... which it's not (well, sometimes...). That gets put onto me a lot. People just don't take the time to look for the good in things anymore... I don't, either!


message 63: by R.A. (new)

R.A. White (rawhite) | 361 comments Emma wrote: "R.A. wrote: "Jen wrote: "Emma wrote: "Wow.

Thanks for the support. I'm so glad that you don't give a damn that some people are trying to get others to read and enjoy their writing, even if it's b..."


You're right, of course. We all have things that hit our emotional buttons before we even process them. Make a comment about black people, adopted kids, or home schoolers and I'll have a hard time seeing what you're trying to really say!


message 64: by Jen (new)

Jen Warren | 446 comments Henry wrote: "Jen,

An interesting idea. I have to agree that you are likely to get swamped by requests, and will receive some complains for all the rejections that are sure to found their way to the unqualifie..."


I'm grateful for your willingness to participate, but I do want to clarify that this is not a review swap. I'm adding your titles to my list for consideration, and would love it if you were willing to try out some new authors, but there is no guarantee for your own work.

If you are still interested in screening/ reading/ reviewing, we'd be happy to have you!


message 65: by J.T. (new)

J.T. Buckley (jtbuckley) | 159 comments What would everyone think about a national organization that promoted Indy authors, editors, cover designers, etc?


message 66: by Jen (new)

Jen Warren | 446 comments J.T. wrote: "What would everyone think about a national organization that promoted Indy authors, editors, cover designers, etc?"

Exactly what did you have in mind?


message 67: by Jen (new)

Jen Warren | 446 comments Henry wrote: "Jen wrote: "I'm grateful for your willingness to participate, but I do want to clarify that this is not a review swap. I'm adding your titles to my list for consideration, and would love it if you ..."

I've added you to my list of readers. Thanks for playing along!


message 68: by Sally (new)

Sally Hanan (inksnatcher) | 23 comments That's very brave of you! I've edited a number of books for writers. I've come to the point where I won't edit anything that isn't fully finished, and even then some manuscripts have been really, really awful.

If you're at all interested in spiritual self-help, I'd like to throw mine into the ring—Fix Yourself.

I'm an Amazon Vine reviewer, and tend to be selective too.


message 69: by Jen (new)

Jen Warren | 446 comments Sally wrote: "That's very brave of you! I've edited a number of books for writers. I've come to the point where I won't edit anything that isn't fully finished, and even then some manuscripts have been really, r..."

I've added yours.


message 70: by Justin (new)

Justin (justinbienvenue) | 2274 comments Sounds interesting, good luck!


message 71: by Mark (new)

Mark Stone (calasade) | 53 comments For those of you who need an affordable, professional editor or a Spanish/English translator, might I suggest Cinta García de la Rosa?

She's the one who's editing my novel.


message 72: by J.T. (new)

J.T. Buckley (jtbuckley) | 159 comments Jen wrote: "J.T. wrote: "What would everyone think about a national organization that promoted Indy authors, editors, cover designers, etc?"

Exactly what did you have in mind?"


I was thinking if we had enough support. We maybe could start an organization. We would have to set up requirements for membership and types of membership and so on. We could maintain lists of reputable editors, cover artists, agents, and even Self-publishing companies.

We could have writer circles even have classes on things eventually. But it would start as a place for people to come to for questions about self-publishing, editing and so forth. We have quite a few people on here that fall into each category. We could have panels to read manuscripts, review cover art, etc.

Maybe even have other successful writers publish articles or we could get permissions to reprint older articles. It might add a touch of respectability to self-publishing if readers believe it is being policed after a fashion.

The main thing is it will be focused on helping self-published authors, independent editors, cover artists and give info to people that are wanting to enter those areas.


message 73: by T.C. (new)

T.C. Filburn (tcfilburn) | 98 comments Jen wrote: "Overly sensitive authors are another reason some readers are reluctant to read and review indies. Only those confident enough to accept criticism should pitch their novels here. "

I've heard of a few like that, and I don't get it, to be honest. If you put something up for sale, you accept that it is there to be criticised, just like any other product. Once it's out there, it's no longer 'your baby' - each copy bought belongs to the purchaser, and they have every right to say whether they like it, or think it's good, or not.

Of course, as an author you might still think that they are wrong, or have missed the point somehow, or whatever - that's up to you, obviously. A criticism isn't necessarily valid just because it's been made, but as an author you just have to review the criticisms in your own mind, consider their potential value in being taken into account for your future work, and keep your big fat mouth shut! The point is that you have put it out there, so you have to accept that others will read it, and might not like what they see, and might review it accordingly.

Putting it out there is a risk, and offering it up for something like this perhaps an even greater risk, but that's the risk you are inherently taking by publishing your work - by publishing you are inviting criticism. It just goes with the territory, and anyone who puts their work up for sale just has to accept that.


message 74: by Yzabel (new)

Yzabel Ginsberg (yzabelginsberg) | 262 comments Richard wrote: "There is no guarantee when picking up any work, self-pub or not..."

+1 on this. I've bought my share of traditionnally published works that ended up being so bad I wanted to hurl my copy (or my tabler) through the room, calling myself an idiot for falling for the pretty cover and/or the enticing blurb.

T. C. wrote: "Putting it out there is a risk, and offering it up for something like this perhaps an even greater risk, but that's the risk you are inherently taking by publishing your work - by publishing you are inviting criticism. It just goes with the territory, and anyone who puts their work up for sale just has to accept that. "

I tend to sum this up by "before publishing, grow some balls". A lot of people forget to steel themselves before it's too late, and then find out they can't cope with the criticism. (It's worth for drawing, music and other art forms, of course.)

I agree, though, that sometimes, some readers seem to miss the point. This is why I like to see a developed 1- or 2-stars review: you can more easily see if the reviewer misunderstood something, didn't read the whole book, or, on the contrary, managed to put a finger on something that could've been explained in a better way. The latter being one of the reasons why beta-readers, IMHO, are very precious: they can spot what the author can't see anymore in his/her own work.


message 75: by Lex (new)

Lex Allen (lexallenbooks) | 123 comments Mark wrote: "Lex wrote: "Excellent comments, Mark. As an aside, I went looking for your "Calasade" books but was unable to find them on Amazon. The links through Goodreads were no help, either. You may want to ..."

Admirable, Mark! I appreciate the explanation. Please feel free to jog my memory with a PM when your books are available.


message 76: by Lex (new)

Lex Allen (lexallenbooks) | 123 comments Jen wrote: "Lex wrote: "Jen - Please add my name and titles to your list of those interested in the review/selection process. I'm two thirds through a trilogy with No Heaven (http://amzn.to/17WMbEj) and No He..."

I'll PM you reference questions on joining the team. Do I need to send you a pitch to get my books into your TBR list? LOL... I hope not, that's one of the things I hated about traditional submissions!


message 77: by Martyn (last edited Jan 07, 2014 05:38AM) (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments Hi Jen,
I'm interested both in screening/reviewing books and getting more exposure for my Amsterdam Assassin Series:

Reprobate A Katla Novel (Amsterdam Assassin Series, #1) by Martyn V. Halm Peccadillo A Katla Novel (Amsterdam Assassin Series, #2) by Martyn V. Halm Rogue A Katla novel (Amsterdam Assassin Series, #3) by Martyn V. Halm

I can screen both epub and mobi - my main fields are mystery, thriller, suspense. I can screen other genres and literary fiction for quality, but they are not my 'field'. I cannot screen poetry, YA, and (urban) fantasy.

I'm a stickler for verisimilitude, and you can check my reviews here on GoodReads and my blog post http://amsterdamassassin.wordpress.co... to see what kind of reviews I currently write and my attitude towards quality in fiction. You can also reach me on katlasieltjes@yahoo.com


message 78: by Lex (new)

Lex Allen (lexallenbooks) | 123 comments Martyn V. wrote: "Hi Jen,
I'm interested both in screening/reviewing books and getting more exposure for my Amsterdam Assassin Series:

Reprobate A Katla Novel (Amsterdam Assassin Series, #1) by Martyn V. Halm[bookcover:Peccadillo: A Katla Nov..."


Yea! Another stickler for verisimilitude! I think an average of 3 out of 5 reviews that I've written contain comments about verisimilitude.. lol.


message 79: by Martyn (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments D.C. wrote: "Isn't there some kind of software that text can be put through for readability? Some of what makes a good book is elusive, but there are basic, easily definable standards for things like grammar a..."

Yes, there is software to determine readability. I myself checked this out because some reviewers mentioned that my 100K novels were 'short reads', which was odd. So I subjected my first novel to testing and I blogged about the outcome here http://amsterdamassassin.wordpress.co...

That blog article also give links to the sites where you can test readability.

However, readibility says something about the prose and pacing, but not much about whether the story is interesting or if the plot is full of holes... For that you'll need beta-readers/content editors/proofreaders.


message 80: by Martyn (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments Emma wrote: "Wow.

Thanks for the supoprt. I'm so glad that you don't give a damn that some people are tyrying to get others to read and enjoy their writing, even if it's bad. I can't try to spread some writi..."


While I cannot speak for Jen, I can speak as a self-publishing author about self-publishing.

There are more crappy self-publishing books than quality self-publishing books, and it's up to the self-publishers to do something about our image.

Your defensive reaction comes close to the attitude of BBA/speshul snowflake authors who consider their work beyond reproach. Nobody is saying you need the stamp of approval. If you don't want to participate, don't participate. But I don't think you should react as if Jen is personally attacking you when she speaks the truth: the market is flooded with crappy self-published books and quality control is necessary.


message 81: by Ken (new)

Ken (kendoyle) | 8 comments Jen,

I wish you all the best and hope you succeed where others have failed. I'm a slow reader these days, due to other demands on my time, but am willing to help in whatever way I can.


message 82: by Bryan (new)

Bryan | 41 comments Jen, I believe what you are trying to do here is extremely admirable. I would like if you could take a moment to review my young adult novel, In the Light of the Eclipse, to see if it would pass your first test of intrigue.

I would also be up for reading other's work to give my honest opinion on whether you should recommend them or not, however, my time is extremely limited, so I would only be able to do a couple, here and there... but when I am free, I can let you know through PM or email.

Hope you feel compelled to check out my book.
In the Light of the Eclipse by Bryan Caron


message 83: by Martyn (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments Richard wrote: "An example of such text: [The general doctrine that mathematics, to be decided, so far as any decision is possible, actual space we live in, belong to existing mathematical necessity of known to belief in that the Euclid, for applied mathematics has also such artificial forms of actually inapplied mathematics is deduction by logic alone; and yet the Kantian philosophy is now knowledge.] And the F/K reading ease of the 2k test block is ~39; grade level 14. I would defy anyone with a PhD, let alone 2 years of college, to make sense of it. ;-)"

I can make some sense of it, but the sentence has several grammatical issues unrelated to the topic.


message 84: by Nancy (new)

Nancy Jarvis (screalwriter) | 56 comments May I add my latest title which came out January 3rd? The Murder House is the fifth in my Reagan McHenry Real Estate Mysteries series. Book four, The Widow's Walk League, won an editor's choice award, so there's hope the new book is at that level. The "look inside" feature is activated on Kindle, so it's possible to read the first three chapters. If you don't have a Kindle, opening chapters for all books are posted on my website http://www.goodreadmysteries.com


message 85: by T.C. (new)

T.C. Filburn (tcfilburn) | 98 comments Martyn V. wrote: "Yes, there is software to determine readability. I myself checked this out because some reviewers mentioned that my 100K novels were 'short reads', which was odd. So I subjected my first novel to testing and I blogged about the outcome here http://amsterdamassassin.wordpress.co...

That blog article also give links to the sites where you can test readability."


I just took a look at that, and gave it a try with mine, just out of interest. The results didn't surprise me at all. The first book came out as:

Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease 50.3
Average Grade Level 13.2

And the second as:
Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease 61.6
Average Grade Level 11.2

That's fine by me - those scores are related to sentence length, word length, and so on, and I already knew that my writing style is somewhat 'wordy' (or the language a bit 'flowery', as one reviewer called it, which isn't to everyone's tastes, of course), especially in the first one. That's the way I write, though - I'm not aiming at the YA market (not that there's any 'adult' content at all), and I happen to like 'wordy' things and playing with words generally. The books are relatively short (deliberately - they have to be - it would be too 'intense' if it went on too long), but never intended to be 'easy/light reading' that you can just skip through, if you see what I mean. Some people like that kind of thing, some people don't.

That particular test doesn't say anything about whether the writing is any good, though, or even about whether the grammar is perfect - it's just about how 'wordy' (and therefore how 'easy to read') it is. Ultimately, only human beings can process writing to determine such things as how 'good something is, and that is always susceptible to their own tastes (I know my work isn't ever likely to 'appeal to the masses'! That's not what it was written for, though).


message 86: by Martyn (last edited Jan 07, 2014 10:59AM) (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments T. C. wrote: "That particular test doesn't say anything about whether the writing is any good, though, or even about whether the grammar is perfect - it's just about how 'wordy' (and therefore how 'easy to read') it is."

I write suspense fiction aimed at adults, but my writing is probably in keeping with the genre (nothing too flowery). And I agree that the test doesn't say anything about whether the story is well-written.

The high readability score of Reprobate: A Katla Novel is mostly due to the lack of run-on sentences, which allows for swift reading.

My suspense stories are quite complex (with several character perspectives and intersecting story lines) and making them easy to read is actually quite difficult. I'm not talking about dumbing down the language, but weighing every word to make sure that sentences do not have to be re-read for their meaning to be conveyed.


message 87: by Ashlee (new)

Ashlee (FoolishOrpheus) | 8 comments There's a project in here that I'm kind of interested in. I looked at Readability-score.com and I started thinking about a different implementation.

This isn't to say I'm interested in your review group, because I'm not (sorry). I'm all about getting better self-published novels getting recognized, but this is something subjective that you are trying to make objective. That is, what one person considers to be a "good book" is not the be all end all, nor is a group indicative of a majority unless the majority votes in the group (or so it should be, yes?). So I find that it is a lofty and not unreasonable goal you wish to attain, but as far as I'm concerned it is a lost cause that many others are trying for as well. But most of the others who are trying to do the same thing probably aren't well known, because such a thing is hard to do since self-published books are unregulated and because of this, quite numerous. There will always be more books than you have time to review, etc. etc. It wouldn't be solving a problem as much as it would be mitigating it, probably to a small degree. This all sounds like it's an elaborate troll, but while I see the purpose in your endeavor, I don't see a plan or a reality in it. I would think you'd need to team up with a self-publishing website and have your reviews be a "free" part of their package. Even then, you'd need credentials and whatnot... And even still, "not so good" books would slip through.

But a program that tests coherency is an interesting idea that I'd like to look into. I might experiment with that and get back to you with something if I can manage it. It's an interesting project that probably will end up as nothing special, but I'd like to take a crack at writing up something for it. This isn't a promise that a tool will be created for the purpose of testing coherency, but it is just one person who is about to do much research on coherency and spend a lot of time devising mathematical equations to make coherency less abstract and more concrete, unless someone has already done this, in which case I'll be turning their work into a program.


message 88: by Martyn (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments Henry wrote: "Martyn,

I just visited your link and took the test myself:
Readability - 81.5
Average Grade Level - 5.8

:)"


Congratulations. Far as I can tell, a high readability score indicates clever and concise prose. As you're writing literary fiction, that would indicate that your prose is aimed at conveying the message, rather than obfuscating clarity with purposely ambiguous meanderings.


message 89: by Martyn (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments Ashlee wrote: "But a program that tests coherency is an interesting idea that I'd like to look into."

I know there is 'writer software' that can scan texts for overused words, vague words, alliteration, and other detriments that can make texts less coherent. So you might want to check that before you invest time in possibly re-inventing the wheel.


message 90: by Heidi (last edited Jan 07, 2014 11:20AM) (new)

Heidi Peltier | 71 comments The fact that some people may disagree with the validity or usefulness of the service you are providing does not change the fact that you ARE going to do it and people WILL read and consider it. That said, I'd like to submit my YA novels to see if they'd be of interest to you. Thanks!
The Delmar Shark Chronicles Isola di Squalo (Book #1) by Heidi Peltier Delphine (The Delmar Shark Chronicles #2) by Heidi Peltier Eyelids of the Morning by Heidi Peltier


message 91: by Jordan (new)

Jordan MacLean (damerien) | 67 comments Haha awesome. I just put my novella, The Forgotten (not published yet) through the readability score software, and I got these results:

Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease 87.4
Grade Levels

Readability Formula Grade
Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level 3.9
Gunning-Fog Score 6.5
Coleman-Liau Index 7.3
SMOG Index 4.7
Automated Readability Index 2.6
Average Grade Level 5.0


message 92: by Jen (new)

Jen Warren | 446 comments Martyn V. wrote: "Hi Jen,
I'm interested both in screening/reviewing books and getting more exposure for my Amsterdam Assassin Series:

Reprobate A Katla Novel (Amsterdam Assassin Series, #1) by Martyn V. Halm[bookcover:Peccadillo: A Katla Nov..."


I've added you to my list of reviewers, and your novel is under consideration. Thanks for volunteering!


message 93: by Jen (new)

Jen Warren | 446 comments Bryan wrote: "Jen, I believe what you are trying to do here is extremely admirable. I would like if you could take a moment to review my young adult novel, In the Light of the Eclipse, to see if it would pass yo..."

Your novel is on my list. Thanks for volunteering!


message 94: by Ashlee (new)

Ashlee (FoolishOrpheus) | 8 comments Martyn V. wrote: "I know there is 'writer software' that can scan texts for overused words, vague words, alliteration, and other detriments that can make texts less coherent. So you might want to check that before you invest time in possibly re-inventing the wheel."


I've come across some already. I don't think I would be reinventing the wheel to remake programs like that, if that's what ends up happening. In essence, I am not making the program to help anyone but myself, and I'm not even really doing it to improve my writing but moreso because it's an interesting idea. If it turns out that I have nothing to create and there is no way to quantify coherency, then I probably won't come back with an .exe. But most of the software I've found isn't doing what I'm trying to do, or maybe they are but not in the way I'd like to try implementing it.

I want to test for coherency, which sounds like checking to see what things make texts less coherent. But really I want to determine if coherency is something that can be quantified. Looking for errors in coherency would be a secondary thought, and primarily I'd be looking into other things. I started by looking for programs that looked into this kind of thing just to see what's out there, but I want to do something that looks at paragraph unity and sentence cohesion. Right now, I haven't seen programs that do this, but if you have, I'd like to know.


message 95: by T.C. (new)

T.C. Filburn (tcfilburn) | 98 comments Martyn V. wrote: "Congratulations. Far as I can tell, a high readability score indicates clever and concise prose. As you're writing literary fiction, that would indicate that your prose is aimed at conveying the message, rather than obfuscating clarity with purposely ambiguous meanderings. "

Nowt wrong with a bit of well-constructed ambiguous meandering - some of us enjoy that sort of thing! ;-)

All that a high readability score on that test indicates is whether you tend to use lots of big words and long sentences, or little words and short sentences - it's a purely mechanical/mathematical judgement. It's a matter of writing style, and a matter of reading taste. If a person prefers something short and concise to get the message across quickly and effectively that's fine, but then for some there is great joy of playing with (or reading the playing with) language itself, and that doesn't necessarily lend itself to 'concisitude' so easily.

Books have two elements, in a sense - the message itself, and the way in which the message is conveyed linguistically. That test says nothing about the message, of course, but about the latter element it only indicates (roughly) which way it is being done, not how well it is being done. That's why such tests are something to be very wary of - while they might indicate how 'easy' the language element is to 'deal with' for the reader, even on that aspect they can't in any way test 'quality'.

Language itself can be a beautiful and exciting thing to behold, and being concise and to the point doesn't necessarily make it 'better', or more enjoyable to everyone. 'Concise' doesn't necessarily equal 'clever', but neither does it mean it isn't, of course. Likewise, not being 'concise' doesn't necessarily mean 'less clever' (nor does it mean that it isn't 'less clever', obviously!).


message 96: by Martyn (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments Henry wrote: "Thanks for the compliments. The readability is one thing, but the grade level is another. Once upon a time i read somewhere that pretty much all bestsellers have a grade level between 4 and 5. Not sure if it is true - as with anything posted on the internet."

I think the grade level is determined not by the content, but by the shortness of the sentences and the average length/number of syllables of the words. Reprobate has an 'average grade level' of 6.7, but I doubt the material would be suited for seventh graders...

As for bestsellers having a grade level between 4 and 5, that doesn't mean the content is suitable for fifth graders or even if the books are devoid of 'difficult' words. I know plenty of three-syllable words that would be difficult to understand for readers below college graduate level, but this test just sees the amount of syllables.


message 97: by Martyn (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments Jen wrote: "I've added you to my list of reviewers, and your novel is under consideration. Thanks for volunteering!"

You're welcome, Jen. Thank you for taking this initiative.


message 98: by Jen (new)

Jen Warren | 446 comments Ashlee wrote: "There's a project in here that I'm kind of interested in. I looked at Readability-score.com and I started thinking about a different implementation.

This isn't to say I'm interested in your review..."


Good luck with your endeavor!

Perhaps you are correct in your assessment of my project, but everyone has to start somewhere and the sites I've used as screening tools for indie books do not serve my purpose with any consistency.

While it is true that one man's trash is another's treasure, there are certain rules every writer should follow for basic readability. Note that I am not planning to write negative reviews, nor draft a list of "bad" books. My only goal is to provide readers like myself with recommendations of quality so they don't drop five dollars on a story that reads like this:

"The night was, dark. In the wood's at the end of the road beside the church that was in front of the field under a bright moon and cloudy sky I saw they're faces disguised by there masks and felt scared because I new they were coming for me."


message 99: by Martyn (last edited Jan 07, 2014 12:22PM) (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments T. C. wrote: "All that a high readability score on that test indicates is whether you tend to use lots of big words and long sentences, or little words and short sentences - it's a purely mechanical/mathematical judgement. It's a matter of writing style, and a matter of reading taste. If a person prefers something short and concise to get the message across quickly and effectively that's fine, but then for some there is great joy of playing with (or reading the playing with) language itself, and that doesn't necessarily lend itself to 'concisitude' so easily."

I assume you read the whole blog article I wrote - I tested my book not for the readability, but to understand why some reviewers thought my books were 'too short' while they were actually longer than average.

I enjoy beautiful prose as long as it fits the subject matter. As I write suspense fiction, my aim is to make sure the prose lends the story the correct pacing for the scene: short, concise, clear sentences for action, longer sentences with longer words for introspective scenes, etcetera.

As one of my reviewers wrote: "His prose is largely straightforward and unadorned, concerned more with what’s going on than with the language. However, there are also some passages that stand out as eloquent and elegant, as well as a number of enjoyable turns of phrases and quotable lines. It’s apparent that Halm, though mostly economical with his writing, has a way with words."

And while my writing style in Reprobate might be 'unadorned', I use a different style in the standalone novel I'm working on, which is a first person narrative that has a different atmosphere than the Amsterdam Assassin Series.


message 100: by Martyn (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 915 comments Shari wrote: "OMG! Someone didn't really write that, did they?"

Jen did. :)


back to top